in_nomine-digest Monday, August 26 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2752 In this digest: Re: IN>A MINOR setback... Re: IN> Hello everyone Re: IN>A MINOR setback... Re: IN>Alternate Universe- AA's and DP's IN> advice needed IN> Personality Quiz Re: IN> advice needed Re: IN> advice needed RE: IN> Personality Quiz Re: IN> Personality Quiz Re: IN> advice needed Re: IN> advice needed IN> The Songs of Age Re: IN>Alternate Universe- AA's and DP's Re: IN>A MINOR setback... Re: IN>A MINOR setback... Re: IN> The Songs of Age Re: IN> Hello everyone IN> Snow Globes Re: IN> Snow Globes RE: IN> The Songs of Age RE: IN> The Songs of Age IN>History of Alternate Universe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:04:58 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN>A MINOR setback... >And on a side note, something just plain fudges up happened. I put my disk >into another computer to print something out, and suddenly, BAM! All of my >old files came back! It seriously weirded me out. Maybe Jean decided to be >nice to me o_o;; > ::nod:: Must've gotten an Intervention. Or did you accidentally Invoke? Josh P.S.: Watch out for strange women coming up to you and asking you for a favor in the next few weeks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:58:50 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hello everyone At 11:57 PM -0300 8/25/02, Richard Angelo wrote: >What books are really needed to run the game, I have the Basic, GM Guide, >Infernal and Angelic Guides. Can you suggest any more? If you're doing a lot of human stuff, I strongly suggest the Corporeal Player's Guide. If you like anime, I suggest In Nomine: Anime >Also what books while >not really needed add alot of enjoyment to the game and are nice to have? All of them! *bright happy grin* Ahem. Right. It's generally considered that the Revelations Cycle has some bugs in it, but the rest of the books are quite keen to one degree or another. >What type of game do you find works best? Angelic or Infernal? The players >I've got are good types and could run either. (I'm hoping) Angelic games are more common, for various reasons, but there are some demonic ones kicking around. It all depends on Contrast and Brightness, really. I don't know much about Vegas, though. Mammon, Prince of Greed (with an initial writeup in Heaven & Hell, and detailed in Superiors 4), is probably involved. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:00:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>A MINOR setback... At 6:52 PM +0000 8/26/02, Sirea Theyal wrote: > Though... I wish I could serve Light if he was still around... Well, you're in luck! He _is_ still around! Just not, er, with quite the same title or job description............. >And on a side note, something just plain fudges up happened. I put my disk >into another computer to print something out, and suddenly, BAM! All of my >old files came back! It seriously weirded me out. Maybe Jean decided to be >nice to me o_o;; Wow. That's impressive. Quick, backups! Printouts! - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:15:04 -0400 From: "Roger Williby" Subject: Re: IN>Alternate Universe- AA's and DP's I have sort of a "thing" for Legion, so I couldn't help but think that you did him little justice with the Word of Morality. It just doesn't seem to encompass the full scope of his wonderfullness. Why not Unity? <-- A word which gets little enough credit in it's own right. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 13:25:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: IN> advice needed I'm about to start up a new game when I return to school and I was wondering if either somewhere in the archives or one of the books or maybe some experiences will help me with my conundrum. How do I go about running a multiple superior group? IE, servants of several different AAs. Should I just say there are so few angels in an area they have no choice but to work together, make an intermediary superior(one that handles either special tasks that require collaborations or some such), or what? How do I maintain group cohesion if I just stick these angels together? If they dislike each other what are their incentives for staying together and cooperating? Am I attempting too hard of a game? Am I not seeing the obvious? Help please, Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:36:40 -0400 From: "Roger Williby" Subject: IN> Personality Quiz You know those personality quizzes that tell you what kind of person you are based on your responses to certain situations and such? I've frequently seen them used to determine character class in roleplaying games. Now, here comes my main hobby: coming up with an idea and hoping someone else will do the work for me. Are they any quizzes like this to determine choir/bands and superiors for In Nomine? I like the thought of basing someone's character on their actual morality. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:47 +0100 (BST) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> advice needed In article <20020826202532.78836.qmail@web10408.mail.yahoo.com>, zombi_bobb@yahoo.com (Jim Burzelic) wrote: > How do I go about running a multiple superior group? > IE, servants of several different AAs. You mean you've been running with servitors all of one AA? > Should I just say there are so few angels in an area they > have no choice but to work together, make an intermediary > superior(one that handles either special tasks that require > collaborations or some such), or what? Well, yes, there usually are so few angels they have little choice. And you could plausibly have several Superiors assign servitors to one area, and tell them to all co-operate with the seneschal of the only tether of the area, or the local servitor of the Angel of Cities, or something like that. > How do I maintain group cohesion if I just stick these angels > together? If they dislike each other what are their incentives > for staying together and cooperating? Demons... Seriously, most angels should be able to co-operate. They may have issues with each other, but this isn't Hackmaster: they should be able to stay on polite terms and co-operate. IN is, after all, a game for fairly mature players. If your players can't have characters who disagree on peripheral issues without fighting, you may need some better players... There are some combinations that are hard: Dominicans often have trouble with Michelites, Creationers and Gabrielites. But single Dominicans in parties are rare - most Dominicans go around in triads. Those drop in on local angels from time to time, but that's intended to spread fear and paranoia and pull the characters together. Servitors of Novalis are rarely assigned as general-purpose troubleshooters. Their job is to be embedded in a society, making things better, and making 'phone calls if they hear anything too serious. Servitors of Eli know that they have to act sensible around Laurentian; the Laurentian don't usually consider every Creationer to be part of a grand evil plot by Eli. Really, this isn't that hard. The party I run has two from Marc, two from Yves, and one each from Jordi and Jean, in a city where Yves' servitors are (sort of) in charge. The one I play in has one each from Michael, Laurence, Gabriel, Yves, Jean, and Eli IST Janus, in a city where there are lots of tethers, but Laurence has the strike team on-call. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:56:22 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> advice needed >How do I go about >running a multiple superior group? IE, servants of >several different AAs. Should I just say there are so >few angels in an area they have no choice but to work >together, make an intermediary superior(one that >handles either special tasks that require >collaborations or some such), or what? Any of these would work, but... > How do I >maintain group cohesion if I just stick these angels >together? ...there are better ways, in my opinion. Such as having angels who serve allied/associated Archangels (a party including War, the Sword, and Stone is much more likely to stick together and help each other than one with War, Judgment, and Flowers, for example), or ones that don't care about politics (just because *most* angels of Fire are excessively paranoid about Judgment doesn't mean they *all* have to be.) A big enough *reason* to stay together would help - the game I'm currently in has *very* 'incompatable' Words, but since the party met as they encountered Alaemon, except for the group who got direct orders from Laurence, we're a lot more willing to stick together. (Multiple Superiors --> bigger danger --> ignore divine politics for the sake of the Symphony. More or less) Or you could simply have them know each other beforehand, or make one of the party members a 'touchstone'-type character - the one who the rest are sent to meet because he or she's been in the area the longest, or something like that. > If they dislike each other what are their >incentives for staying together and cooperating? Depends on their goals. But they're *angels*; unless you're playing a fairly dark game, they'll be willing to help to *some* degree. Even if they're something like War and Flowers. A good idea would be to set things up so *all* their talents are necessary at some point in the game. If there's an angel of Dreams in the party, you can set some of the game in the Marches, for example. But maybe the angel of Destiny is the only one who knows the particular Ethereal they need to find, and the angel of Stone is the one with all the details of the mission, and the angel of the Wind is the best tracker in the party. Something like that. > Am I >attempting too hard of a game? Am I not seeing the >obvious? I don't think it's too hard. You'll have to give them some kind of incentive to help each other out, probably, but once they *have* that (and get to know each other) there shouldn't be too many problems with cohesion. Note that all the above is from a player's point of view; I've never GMed. But I've been in parties with difficulties working together before. ~S.D. Ryukage ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong." Unknown ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:58:16 +0100 From: "Nick Ashton" Subject: RE: IN> Personality Quiz I did start one of these a few weeks ago for my campaign... but like yourself I never got to a finished product. Q42 Humans are a) Gods greatest creation, to be prtected and nurtured at all times. b) Obviously of great importance to the guy upstairs, but I've been on Earth 232 years and can't work out why c) A complete pain in the a***!! What are they for? Scum!! Die, buckets of flesh and water!! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of Roger Williby > Sent: 26 August 2002 21:37 > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: IN> Personality Quiz > > > You know those personality quizzes that tell you what kind of > person you are > based on your responses to certain situations and such? I've > frequently seen > them used to determine character class in roleplaying games. Now, > here comes > my main hobby: coming up with an idea and hoping someone else will do the > work for me. Are they any quizzes like this to determine choir/bands and > superiors for In Nomine? I like the thought of basing someone's > character on > their actual morality. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 17:02:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Personality Quiz On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Roger Williby wrote: > You know those personality quizzes that tell you what kind of person you are > based on your responses to certain situations and such? I've frequently seen > them used to determine character class in roleplaying games. Now, here comes > my main hobby: coming up with an idea and hoping someone else will do the > work for me. Are they any quizzes like this to determine choir/bands and > superiors for In Nomine? I like the thought of basing someone's character on > their actual morality. I'm actually working on one now... I recently devoted a section of my site (http://www.brainpuke.com) to tests and quizzes. Right now I'm finishing up a They Might Be Giants quiz, but after that, "Which In Nomine Choir Are You?" is next... then Bands, then (sometime later) Superiors... I'll shamelessly plug what I've got now: http://www.brainpuke.com/tests/ - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! A crash reduces Your expensive computer To a simple stone. -- Sony Vaio-PC Haiku ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:30:07 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> advice needed >>How do I go about >>running a multiple superior group? IE, servants of >>several different AAs. Should I just say there are so >>few angels in an area they have no choice but to work >>together, make an intermediary superior(one that >>handles either special tasks that require >>collaborations or some such), or what? In the biggest game I ran -- the Fiat Justitia campaign -- a local Servitor of Stone needed assistance with something, so he contacted several local angels whom he knew (who just happened to be the PCs) to look into the matter while he was out of town. They had no reason to refuse to do him this favour, and once they were involved in the action, well . . . Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 17:09:45 -0700 From: Harukami Subject: Re: IN> advice needed Hi! I'm new to the list. ^^ Nice to meet you all. >How do I go about >running a multiple superior group? IE, servants of >several different AAs. Should I just say there are so >few angels in an area they have no choice but to work >together, make an intermediary superior(one that >handles either special tasks that require >collaborations or some such), or what? How do I >maintain group cohesion if I just stick these angels >together? If they dislike each other what are their >incentives for staying together and cooperating? Am I >attempting too hard of a game? Am I not seeing the >obvious? Well, I'm in the same group as SD and it's pretty darn mixed - Dreams, Fire, Creation, Judgement, and the Sword. It's my first time playing IN, but I've been running a lot of games for other systems, and as a GM, I suggest mainly giving the party a challenge that all their Superiors would be interested in. There are very few Superiors who would order their Servitors not to work with a Servitor of another Word; they are, after all, on the same side against the demons. They might not, however, order the party TO work with Servitors of other Words. My suggestion is to start the game with a threat that several Superiors are interested in and more than willing to briefly put aside their differences in order to have their various Servitors take care of it together. From that point on, the party all know the other party members are reliable, and even if not directly ordered TO work with them, a GM can usually assume they'd be willing to trust the other players as reliable in a pinch. (And I can think of few characters who don't want an extra few people at their back, given an option!) Games that are designed so that each character can shine at his specialties help, too, because every player gets to both contribute and see how useful the others are. Playing campaigns where demons work with angels would be a LOT harder -- but technically possible, at least with Flowers/Lust or Judgement/the Game. (Though I'd avoid having Malakim in my party for THAT...) My two cents and again, nice to meet you all! Haru ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 17:33:01 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> The Songs of Age Because, on reflection, there may be a difference between aging and growing, but the two are - to a point - inextricably linked, and thus the passage in Corporeal Entropy makes little sense to me. - -EDG The Songs of Age (Common/Secret: Blandine, Eli, Novalis, Yves) Despite their categorization, the Songs of Age aren't actually particularly common, especially since in their widely-known form they only target mortals: angels don't tend to want to interfere with the development of mortal creatures, and demons tend to prefer flashier effects. Still, the Songs of Age do have occasional use: the Corporeal Song in particular is often given to Soldiers to prolong their effectiveness on Earth. Corporeal: The Corporeal Song of Age - of which the Corporeal Song of Entropy is effectively a variant - alters the age of the target, who does not have to be human but who must be mortal. A successful performance increases or decreases the target's age by a number of years equal to the check digit of the roll multiplied by the Essence spent, across a number of rounds equal to the number of years added or subtracted. This includes all side effects of aging or youthening, such as growth or shrinking, the appearance or disappearance of wrinkles, etc. It presumes no outside influences on aging: if the person would have tripped and broken his ankle in two years, and he is aged past that point, the broken ankle does not occur. However, if a person's age is reduced, they do experience any outside influences that occurred (so that if a person is aged back to a point where his leg was broken, the leg is returned to its unhealed state). It is possible for a target to be aged to the point of death in this fashion (although doing so to a human generates the normal disturbance for killing a human, if the performer is celestial), but not to youthen a target beyond the moment of birth. All effects of this Song are permanent. Ethereal: The Ethereal Song of Age alters a person's mindset and maturity level, raising or lowering it by a number of years equal to the check digit multiplied by the Essence spent. This does not actually age the target, but it can return a business executive to the Terrible Twos or cause an infant to be as calm and collected as he would be at 25. This Song's effects last for a number of days equal to the performer's level of skill in the Song. Celestial: The Celestial Song of Age displays the entire life experiences of the target to the performer (and only the performer), as though the performer were living through them, over the course of a single round. This is a full immersion: he feels all of the emotions and sensations involved in the events as the target felt them. Specific details begin to fade immediately after the Song has run its course, vanishing almost completely after CD minutes, so no actual skills or Songs can be gained from the experience. In their most general form, however, the experiences remain in the performer's memory indefinitely. The Celestial Song of Age can also be performed, at a -2 penalty, so that someone other than the performer is the recipient of the target's experiences. (The recipient can even be the target himself!) However, the target must still be mortal (although the recipient does not have to be). Essence requirement: 1 (2 for Celestial) Degree of disturbance: CD Blandine, Eli, Novalis, and Yves know a variant on these Songs, although granting it is roughly equivalent to granting a Distinction in terms of service required. The variant costs twice as much Essence, but allows the performer to use these Songs on non-mortal creatures such as ethereals and celestials. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:42:25 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>Alternate Universe- AA's and DP's >I have sort of a "thing" for Legion, so I couldn't help but think that you >did him little justice with the Word of Morality. It just doesn't seem to >encompass the full scope of his wonderfullness. Why not Unity? <-- A word >which gets little enough credit in it's own right. I have a thing for Legion too, trust me. Her (yeah, her) story is that she was very powerful at one time as an Archangel, and tried to possess a majority of mankind to make them protected against the utter evils of Christopher, DP of Corruption. However... Christopher... well, to put it lightly, he had been expecting that, and ambushed her and mangled her horribly. She's now very weak and trying to regain her power... and no one dares take Unity as a Word. Stone was like Unity, and he Fell to become Assimilation... Unity would be destroyed by him. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:45:49 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>A MINOR setback... > > Though... I wish I could serve Light if he was still around... > >Well, you're in luck! He _is_ still around! Just not, er, with quite >the same title or job description............. I doubt the Demon Prince/Kind of Light would really like me though >.< though I bet he IS cute... > > >And on a side note, something just plain fudges up happened. I put my >disk > >into another computer to print something out, and suddenly, BAM! All of >my > >old files came back! It seriously weirded me out. Maybe Jean decided to >be > >nice to me o_o;; > >Wow. That's impressive. Quick, backups! Printouts! > Done and done o_o; you know Vapula is involved when you have to make backups of your backups... _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:05:02 -0700 From: "Andrew S. Ma" Subject: Re: IN>A MINOR setback... Josh Moger wrote: > >And on a side note, something just plain fudges up happened. I put my disk > >into another computer to print something out, and suddenly, BAM! All of my > >old files came back! It seriously weirded me out. Maybe Jean decided to be > >nice to me o_o;; > > > ::nod:: Must've gotten an Intervention. > > Or did you accidentally Invoke? > > Josh > > P.S.: Watch out for strange women coming up to you and asking you for a > favor in the next few weeks. More likly a Divine Intervention. "Look! The Giant Disembodied Hand of God came down from the Heavens above, typed a few command lines, and recovered my erased files!" (Yes, I read Sinfest. [www.sinfest.net] What of it?) "God does not play with dice!" ~Albert Einstien, remarking upon the Quantum Theory "God not only plays with dice, he throws them where they can't be seen" ~Stephen Hawking, remarking upon Black Holes and Singularities "God not only throws the dice where they can't be seen, sometimes they come back as a deck of cards!" ~A professor of mine who's name I have forgotten, remarking upon the theory that Black Holes "evaporate" - -- Fighter1: "What? What's wrong with sending the succubus in there? She's got a charisma higher than humanly possible! She'll get them to talk!" Fighter2: "She's a DEMON... and that's a CHURCH..." Fighter1: "So..?" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:15:28 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN> The Songs of Age The Song of Entropy always worried and confused me also, and I'm happy you posted this ^_^ I finally have something other than my Songs of Time to add to the repertoire of my Demon Prince of Time. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:28:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Forman Subject: Re: IN> Hello everyone > >Probably a HUGE source of Tethers for Andy, Nybbas, > Mammon, and Kronos Don't forget Haagenti...endless buffets, free drinks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:50:55 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> Snow Globes Snow Globes Cherubim of Dreams *love* these. A Snow Globe, when inert, looks like what you'd expect: a glass globe on a pedestal, hollow and filled with a clear liquid and white flakes. When the globe is picked up and shaken rapidly, the flakes disperse through the liquid and then settle slowly, producing an effect not unlike snow falling. Most snow globes, however, have a snowman or quiet, wintry, pastoral scene within, to provide something other than the bottom of the globe upon which the snow can fall. A Snow Globe, by contrast, is empty except for the flakes. These are rather pretty nonetheless, and sometimes praised for their simplicity: it can be soothing just to sit and watch snow fall. However, they also have a special function: for one Essence, they can be attuned permanently to a single dreamer. (They can be re-attuned, but at the cost of another Essence, and cannot be de-attuned.) Thereafter, whenever the target is sleeping, shaking the Snow Globe and providing two Essence (just shaking it isn't enough, no matter how hard you try) reveals, in the midst of the falling snowflakes, a view of the dreamer's dreamscape, in its entirety. The user of the Snow Globe can then zoom in, pan around, and take in the general and the specific of the dreamscape. The effect lasts for minutes equal to the Snow Globe's level as an artifact. To a Servitor of Dreams, these have an additional purpose: when activated and held, a Snow Globe allows the angel to use the Dream Walking attunement as though he were actually touching the dreamer to whom the Snow Globe is attuned. Snow Globe: 4 CP/level Relic: Modified Song of Projection: 3 CP/level Relic: Highly Restricted Song of Attraction: 1 CP/level ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:56:29 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Snow Globes I suppose I'd better clarify a few things here. At 06:50 PM 8/26/2002 -0400, you wrote: >These are rather pretty nonetheless, and sometimes praised for their >simplicity: it can be soothing just to sit and watch snow fall. However, >they also have a special function: for one Essence, they can be attuned >permanently to a single dreamer. In order for a Snow Globe to be attuned to a dreamer, its holder must either be able to see the dreamer in some way (television, for example, works fine, but only if it's live), or be physically touching the dreamer. >Thereafter, whenever the target is sleeping, shaking the Snow Globe and >providing two Essence (just shaking it isn't enough, no matter how hard >you try) reveals, in the midst of the falling snowflakes, a view of the >dreamer's dreamscape, in its entirety. If the target isn't sleeping, the Essence is rejected, and nothing happens. >Snow Globe: 4 CP/level A variant has also been produced that limits the use of a Snow Globe to its owner, which reduces the cost to 2/6/10/14/18/22 CP, depending on the level. Normal Snow Globes are usable by anyone who can direct their Essence expenditure. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 00:48:01 +0200 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> The Songs of Age - -----Original Message----- From: EDG [mailto:anthoch@earlham.edu] The Songs of Age Ethereal: The Ethereal Song of Age alters a person's mindset and maturity level, raising or lowering it by a number of years equal to the check digit multiplied by the Essence spent. This does not actually age the target, but it can return a business executive to the Terrible Twos or cause an infant to be as calm and collected as he would be at 25. *** This Song's effects last for a number of days equal to the performer's level of skill in the Song. *** *** Last sentence highlighted by me. Seems a bit longish to me. Most Songs of any kind last in minutes don't they? Hours at best. I cannot think of a single Song that lasts in Days, though I do know that there are a few really strong ones that are permanent. And while a man reduced to the terrible twos would be incapacitated, an infant suddenly brought to the awareness of 25 is going to have some terrible trauma I would think. Maturity without information. All that awareness of self identity and surroundings, but no comprehension or experience to match it. Stuck like that for hours and hours, and then have it slowly slipping away over the hours as the Song fades. No language to share with the huge beings around you, no way to let them know you are hungry, soiled, no motor skills to move yourself. Gums aching as teeth push through, only now instead of some formless, thoughtless experience that will fade from memory, it is firmly planted as the only cognitive thoughts and yet you cannot explain or even move your hands properly to point at your gums. I keep thinking of that Metallica Song "One" which is based on that book about the guy who is almost a vegetable and can only move his head, can't see, or speak hear or even smell. All he does is wonder if he is really alive or not and ends up tapping out "kill me please" in Morse Code over and over again, hoping someone will realize how much he is suffering. Or does it grant them speech and reasoning so they can carry on a philosophical discussion or ask, "Mummy, may I please have a suckle on the left side? Your right side appears to be dry." Going back to the man reduced to child side of things, just how are Eli or Novalis served by making a man crap his pants and drool? Okay, it is a non-violent manner to incapacitate someone, but so are the Songs of Charm and the like. Not to mention the fact that at "Terrible Two" level maturity, most people could still talk and walk, so you've just made someone in a position of some power into a fiend that has totally selfish drives, unburdened by any real sense of consequences. At four, my daughter set her bed on fire because she stole my lighter from out of my pants pocket while I was asleep. She wasn't being especially bad, she wanted to light a candle and sing "Happy Birthday" to her little sister. Not having a candle, she twisted some Barbie clothing into a sort of candle object and lit it. That was at four, and trying to do something nice. Now let's go to two, where kids smash bugs because they finally are realizing that some things are smaller than themselves. Kids at ten years old play with guns and kill one another on accident. I man who knows how to drive, but suddenly doesn't have the patience to deal with city traffic is going to run up on the sidewalks because "people do it in movies and no one ever gets hurt" or even stupider things. Even if the memory of the time is erased, it sounds like a truly horrible experience for everyone involved. I can't believe Eli or Novalis would condone it's use. Kronos maybe. Kobal would probably laugh at the uses of this Song so much he'd wet himself. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:22:22 -0400 From: EDG Subject: RE: IN> The Songs of Age At 12:48 AM 8/27/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Seems a bit longish to me. Most Songs of any kind last in minutes don't >they? Hours at best. I cannot think of a single Song that lasts in Days, >though I do know that there are a few really strong ones that are permanent. Possibly true, although I felt that hours wasn't long enough. >And while a man reduced to the terrible twos would be incapacitated, an >infant suddenly brought to the awareness of 25 is going to have some >terrible trauma I would think. To give an infant the maturity level of a 25-year-old would require 5 Essence at the *maximum* check digit - more than half of what a starting PC carries. To reduce an experienced businessman to a toddler would require even more. These are not typical uses of the Song - simply examples that show what it *can* do with enough power behind it. It's more likely that this Song is going to be used to grant a teenager the maturity level of a thirtysomething, or to give someone in their thirties the fresh, immature, limitless energy of a teenager. Those are uses I think Eli and Novalis would condone. It bothers me that you're reacting as though the examples were the be-all and end-all of the Song's power. (Even if you treat them as ultimate limits, they're not - a fully-powered starting character with a good check digit could reduce someone in his late 40s to an infant, or raise a toddler to a 50-year-old's maturity level.) It's a fool's errand to try and describe everything any character ever could possibly do with a power: much better simply to give examples and hope that people will realize that that's not all the Song can do. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 23:41:18 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: IN>History of Alternate Universe Well, first off, I'd like another name aside from Alternate Universe, it's long and dull -_-; (Shortened Version) IN the start, there was the Almighty. The Almighty created the universe and three planes from It's Divine will, and the three planes of existence came into being. It created Yves, an Yves named It God, and then itself Yves. >From the Darkness came the firstborn, Michael. God parted the Waters and created Oannes, and then spoke, saying "Let their be Light". Lucifer, the Archangel of Light and holder of Truth Almighty, came into being. Michael lost the Word of Darkness and went to being a regular angel, and Firstborn of the Seraphim and God. Time passed, and the universe was forged by the Archangels as usual. Gabriel, Archangel of Fire, David, Archangel of Stone, Novalis, Archangel of Flowers, and so on, all worked in harmony. Then, one day, Yves decreed humans as the ultimate beings, and told the angels that they were God's chosen. Lucifer is curious, and Michael has his first thoughts of jealousy and pride. After a few more years, Yves decrees that they must all now stay in Heaven forever, and Metatron seals off the Corporeal Plane. Both Lucifer and Yves are angry, and begin to plot ways to convince God otherwise. They create the Eden Experiment as a result, and after much debate, Metatron agrees to the idea. It goes horribly. Lilith rebels and leaves, Adam is left bitter and angry, and Eve is a poor replacement. Ophis, acting through Michael and Baal, sabotages the experiment. Michael begins to recruit the Host along with Lucifer to join him to go against God for having done this to them. Adam and Eve are exiled, and their Fate is unknown. Yves is upset. Michael is filled with pride, and goes to Metatron to demand an explanation. Lucifer backs him up, and things get... messy. Michael, in a fit of rage and pride, lashes out and kills Metatron. Michael rebels against God, and tries to take angels to leave with him, and clean the world of humans. In the defining moment, Lucifer, paralyzed with fear, resonates FULLY with the ultimate power of his Word and Seraphic nature upon himself, and discovered the TRUTH. He saw not only what was and would happen, but saw himself in many alternate universes, all at once, and fell to his knees crying to God to forgive him and his blindness. Lucifer is filled with anger, and rides against Michael in war. Michael attacks back, and War erupts in Heaven. At this point, Malakite Archangels (Uriel and David) can either turn or not, as this world has Fallen Malakim at your choice. If they do not turn, they stay as Cherub and Seraph. The war reaches it's climax, and Michael begins to resonate with his Balseraph nature, and his new Word. He strikes against Lucifer as a deformed monstrosity, and nearly kills him. Baal attacks Michael, and distracts him enough that Lucifer can blast out with his Word and subdue Michael. Yves banishes the rebels to Hell, and about 3/5 of the Host go with Michael, the rest staying with Lucifer and Baal. Michael, David, Janus, Gabriel, Jordi, Oannes, Jean, Blandine, Uriel and Raphael, all Archangels at the time, Fall. Dominic and Marc follow as Wordbound. Novalis goes to comfort the Fallen. Eli leaves with a shocked and dark look on his face, to wander earth. Two angels are sent to watch over the entrance to Hell. Heaven has it's golden years, in which some angels become Superiors. In Hell, Michael fumes. With his connection to God as being his firstborn, and thus having a part of God in him, he hands out Words and they carve homes out of Hell. Michael gains a unique Word, which has several meanings in Celestial, such as Darkness, War, Hubris, Destruction, Conquest, and many more. It is commonly abbreviated as "Michael, Demon Prince of War/Hubris" or as "King of Darkness". Lilith, in her bitterness, finds the Gates to Hell and manages to make a deal with Michael, and breaks Hell loose. Michael attempts to kill the "Filthy damn monkey bitch". She escapes to Heaven, broken and fearful. She seeks sanctity with them, and is denied until Lucifer comes forth and talks with her privately. She comes away with a look of humility and regret upon her face, and chooses to atone for a few years until God grants her the Word of Free Will, which she then uses to try her best to atone. The War begins, with Baal taking the lead of the War Faction, Makatiel taking lead of the Peace Faction, and despite request, Lucifer declines to choose sides, and simply leads the Balance Faction with Yves and his beloved friend Kobal. Nearly all ethereals are murdered in Uriel's Purification Crusade, and survivors seek sanctity with Heaven. Beleth takes them in as long as they swear allegiance to mankind and then Heaven. Modern day, the War is going badly. It's about twice as "hot" than the Canon universes War, and Heaven is starting to lose... the overall campaign is Dark, with some Very Bright Spots here and there. The contrast is higher than normal, although most of it comes from the Demon Princes. Many demons have doubts about their position, and Redemption is about 40% higher than in Canon. Falling is about 20% less common. It is undecided as to details yet, such as who has what exact duty, who may be dead or severely wounded, and more "alternate history points". Suggestions are welcome ^_^ _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2752 ********************************