in_nomine-digest Monday, September 23 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2783 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: Nephallim and Grigori IN> In Nomine books I recently purchased! Re: IN> Restaurant of Lost Souls RE: IN> Jane, stop this crazy thing! IN> The List and the Digest Re: IN> Re: Nephallim and Grigori IN> Novalis RE: IN> Jane, stop this crazy thing! Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Adventure ideas? IN> New Discord IN> Words Re: IN> New Discord IN> Hotmail vs the List IN> Torontonian Tethers Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> New Discord Re: IN> Words IN> New Ethereal Spirit Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Torontonian Tethers Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit Re: IN> Words Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Adventure ideas? IN> Engel, Ethereals, & Pseudo-Angels ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 23:04:15 -0400 (EDT) From: jamoge@wm.edu Subject: Re: IN> Re: Nephallim and Grigori > Actually, the Nephallim are the children of the > Grigori, not their parents. > Personally, I've never really seen them as being > evil as such, more like > totally insane. Not that I blame them, given how > mutilated (both physically > and mentally) they are. I suppose that's what > you get when you try to > interbreed two totally different species (ie > human and angel). ;) > Aye, but that's only the fallen version. There's also the Children of the Grigori who are not, necessairly, insane. Nephalim are something else entirely. Maybe there's a genetic quirk triggered one out of three times. Maybe it's a got something to do with the celestial or human parent. Maybe it's the amount of dissonance or discord the Grigori parent has that becomes an inate part of their child. Which suddenly has me running down a track looking at the relationship between discord, Oblivion, and Corruption... Hmm.... A suddenly thinking along very very bad lines, Josh Proud Petitioner of ^_^' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 21:27:03 -0600 From: Brian Westcott Subject: IN> In Nomine books I recently purchased! I thought I should let you all know that I recently purchased some used In Nomine books at a new bookstore this past Friday. Here are the books: Corporeal Player's Guide (3315) Revelations #2 - The Marches (3305) Revelations #3 - Heaven and Hell (3306) I still need to get my hands on these books once I hear back from a bookseller in Michigan this week: In Nomine Core Rules (3301) Gamemaster's Guide (3317) Revelations #5 - The Final Trumpet (3311) Now comes the fun part: trying to create a human character with 6 Forces. I think I might have him descended from either the Children of Grigori or a child of an Ethereal Spirit and a human, etc. Take care, everyone! Brian Westcott brian@brianrich.net Meridian, Idaho http://www.brianrich.net/cobra.html (History of C.O.B.R.A. for In Nomine) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 00:39:43 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Restaurant of Lost Souls >In article <20020919213556.27913.qmail@web13205.mail.yahoo.com>, >thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com (Michael Walton) wrote: > >> Yikes! The scary thing is, this could work. I seem to have missed the post this one came from. Sorry, vanity forcing me to gather every response to one of my posts. Can someone forward it to me? Thanks, Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 10:03:29 +0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: RE: IN> Jane, stop this crazy thing! >Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 20:25:24 -0400 >From: "Eric Bertish" >Just now I recieved a digest from the list. > >I have never s u bscribed to the digest. I hate digests. That fact that it >was done without notification, and *without my permission*, is galling to >me. You aren't the only one. I found myself with discord(Digest-bound)/6 early last week. No explanation, no warning, and as far as i was aware, without having breached any of the rules which get you digestified (or digested? maybe if haagenti runs the server) such as bouncing due to a full mailbox. I personally suspected that it might be that since i don't post frequently any more, the server was auto-digesting low volume users to save on processing, but you'd hardly be considered a silent voice on the list. so that scotches that theory. I have attempted to mail beth on her LE address shortly after the event. No response was forthcoming. to say i am a bit miffed would be an understatement. I think the same has happened to Casiopia too, from the last time i spoke with her. While quite happy to u n s from the digest and re s u b to the list, i would like an explanation. I didnt want to drag this public, but since private has had no response, and it would appear at least 2 other people have suffered the same treatment, i think its going to have to be this way. - -FallenSeraph _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 07:32:31 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> The List and the Digest At 10:03 AM 9/23/2002 +0000, Fallen Seraph wrote: >I think the same has happened to Casiopia too, from the last time i spoke >with her. While quite happy to u n s from the digest and re s u b to the >list, i would like an explanation. I didnt want to drag this public, but >since private has had no response, and it would appear at least 2 other >people have suffered the same treatment, i think its going to have to be >this way. Majordomo does not automatically s u b scribe low-volume posters to the digest list. If it did, none of the people to whom this is described as having happened would have had their s u b scriptions changed: there are an enormous volume of people on the list who have *never* posted, even *once*. Beth *also* does not change low-poster s u b scriptions. If your email server has returned a message to Majordomo (which message will be automatically bounced to Beth) stating that your mailbox is full (which has been happening with alarming frequency recently - especially with Hotmail and Yahoo accounts, and regardless of whether or not the box is actually full), you may be manually res u b scribed to the digest list to relieve the load on your mailbox. Please note that there is *not* a reliable way to ask your permission about this: since your email box is full, nobody can send you a note to check whether you're okay with it, and the In Nomine Mailing List as an entity does not keep contact information about its members except their email addresses. Please also note that simply not doing this isn't feasible; every email from the list that gets bounced from your account gets bounced into Beth's personal email account. *Every* *single* *one*. There may also currently be a problem with Majordomo itself. IO.com has switched servers several times over the past year, and some software may have accumulated errors as a result. There's nothing you or I can do about this except hope that IO.com figures out what's wrong and is able to fix it without a full reinstall of Majordomo (which would, perforce, necessitate restarting - and res u b scription to - all three lists). The best way to handle this problem is the way you've been handling it: if it happens to you, u n s ubscribe from the digest list, and res u b scribe to the regular list. If you're having trouble with this, email me; I'll be happy to help you out, or to forward the problem on to Beth if it's something I can't solve. If missing individual posts is really a considerable hardship to you, email me as well: it's extremely rare that I don't receive a post to the INML, and I archive every post that I get. For reference, the commands to s u b scribe and u n s ubscribe to any of the three lists are as follows (remove the spaces from the first word; there should be two words in each command): s u b scribe in_nomine-l s u b scribe in_nomine-digest s u b scribe in_nomine_posters-l u n s ubscribe in_nomine-l u n s ubscribe in_nomine-digest u n s ubscribe in_nomine_posters-l Note that you do not need to s u b scribe an address to posters-l if it is already a member of either in_nomine-l or in_nomine-digest. (Alternate addresses - such as edg@s j g ames.com for me - must be subscribed to one of the three lists if you want to post with them.) Note also that you can send multiple commands with each message. Simply include each on a separate line like so: s u b scribe in_nomine-l u n s ubscribe in_nomine-digest You can find more information on this topic here: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/lists.html (which has been recently updated to include more list commands, like which and info.) As a parting note, I am not sure whether *either* of the messages listed on www.sjgames.com for Beth is correct. (I have seen arcangel@s j g ames.com and emccoy@n h . ultranet.com.) If you want to reach Beth quickly, use arcangel@i o .com. (Obviously, remove the spaces.) She will be on vacation until the 25th, but I believe she is still checking her email. I hope this helped. Sorry for the inconvenience; it wasn't an intentional slight. Goodcheer, EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 05:29:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Nephallim and Grigori - --- jamoge@wm.edu wrote: > Aye, but that's only the fallen version. Nephallim aren't Fallen per se; they're physically, mentally and spiritually warped. This usually leads to their becoming evil, but they are not innately so. That's canon, at any rate; your campaign may be different. > Maybe > there's a genetic quirk triggered one out of three > times. This seems to be the canon version, if you go by game mechanics. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:32:48 +0930 From: "G N E Z D A" Subject: IN> Novalis Just wondering, does anyone know where I'd be able to get new (fan-made, or semi-official) attunements and rules for servitors of Flowers? - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 2/08/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:16:53 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: RE: IN> Jane, stop this crazy thing! Same happened to me, but it was from Hotmail being cruddy and bouncing nearly every message I sent. Drat. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 10:40:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? - --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > I am running an In Nomine adventure set before the > creation of mankind. [snip] The idea is that we'll > fast-forward the > game every session so we'll play through the Fall, > ancient history, and so on, until the modern day. Well, you'll definitely need to play through the Eden Experiment and the rise of Legion. As for things to do before there are Humans, I suggest adventures in the Marches; remember that animals have dreamscapes, too. There won't be demons before the Fall, but there will be Ethereals -- the Primal spirits are older than demons, and Dream Elements generated by animal dreams have got to be interesting (what herd beast doesn't dream of the Inescapable Predator?). There just won't be Pagan spirits yet. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:58:45 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? The ethereal idea is pretty good... is there a Canonical threat of animal ethereals manifesting vessels before humanity existed? *bong* I just had an epiphany. What if dinosaurs and super-megaladon sharks and super-alligators WERE ethereal vessels? You have to admit, they're mostly either horrifying predators or bountiful herbivores -- the perfect dreams and nightmares of both prey and predator. What if Uriel's purity crusade was his second war on these abominations, and the destruction of the dinosaurs was Heaven's doing? Then I could let my angels go dinosaur hunting as they attempt to wipe these critters out. Who hasn't wanted to use flaming swords on a T-Rex? Anyway, before the Heresy police arrest me, let me move on to a list of things I plan to do before the Fall: * The Eden Experiment * Teaching mankind about fire * The afforementioned saving of the rodents * Socializing with angels who will eventually become Superiors or Fall * A few inexplicable tasks like carting rocks around or observing a certain item for a few years I'm not sure what else. The characters are between a few hundred million and a few billion years old already (one of them rolled randomly to become the 67th angel ever made), but I figure the exciting things to do only start around 70 million years ago, when the dinosaurs started to go. Also, does anyone else have any other ideas on who Kobal served before the Fall? I suppose it's possible no angel served another back then, since no formal structure existed, but that's just too difficult to wrap the game system around. My theory is that laughter is a subset of either Light (Lucifer) or Love (Andrealphus). Lucifer makes more sense, since the two seem to have a powerful bond. He could also possible be an angel of Creation, since Eli would support a word like Laughter. Any thoughts? Other angels it would be fun to work with as non-Superiors pre-Fall: Dominic, Asmodeus, Marc, Novalis (when were these two created?), Saminga... Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:41:08 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? >Also, does anyone else have any other ideas on who Kobal served before the >Fall? I suppose it's possible no angel served another back then, since no >formal structure existed, but that's just too difficult to wrap the game >system around. My theory is that laughter is a subset of either Light >(Lucifer) or Love (Andrealphus). Lucifer makes more sense, since the two >seem to have a powerful bond. He could also possible be an angel of >Creation, since Eli would support a word like Laughter. Any thoughts? > I always thought that it was canon that Kobal was one of Eli's first angels? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:36:26 -0400 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: IN> New Discord I don't know if someone's already done a Discord like this, but here's my attempt. The idea behind it was to simulate the infamous "You scarred me, and I will have vengence" bit most often seen in Anime, Manga and Comics. Although to be honest, I don't know if this should be a Corporeal Discord (the Scar appearing visibly on every Vessel) or a Celestial Discord (The Scar being a symbol of the defeat inflicted by one's adversary). Inflicted Scar As a result of a fierce battle or another attack, you've recieved a very visible scar across your face or chest, which shows on all your Vessels. The severity of the Scar depends on the Discord Level: a Level 1 Scar is often a short line along the cheek, while a Level 6 Scar would be a completly scarred, "hamburger"-like face. Add the level of this Discord to the victim's Corporeal Forces and substract the result from all reaction rolls The Scar can be disguised or hidden, at a penalty equal to Level of the Discord. This penalty also applies to the Celestial Song of Forms, when used to alter the Vessel's appearance. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:36:41 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Words Is there a list of "Words that have been granted in Canon?" Every time I come up with an idea for a Word Bound I always wonder if that word has been used. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:47:38 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> New Discord I don't know if someone's already done a Discord like this, but here's my attempt. The idea behind it was to simulate the infamous "You scarred me, and I will have vengence" bit most often seen in Anime, Manga and Comics. - - Wouldn't this be a subset of Ugly Discord. Or you could do a Celestial Discord, but with the Scar as a kind of mutated geas. Instead of having to do something *for* the individual you get the Scar from, you could have to roll against Will not to attack or plan against them. To take up on that 'vengeance' bit. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 21:00:00 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Hotmail vs the List I received an offlist message from Beth saying that about twelve different Hotmail addresses, including mine, had bounced on the same day so she had corralled them all, uns*bbed them, and res*bbed them to the digest. Apparently for some reason the other people listed on the message didn't receive it -- perhaps the same problem that was causing trouble in the first place. (I simply res*bbed myself to the list, since I don't like the digest either.) Janet Anderson * * * * * * * * * For garments fine, and jewels red and blue, I would forsake this moment willingly to get me Honour, and for Courtesy. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:06:20 -0700 From: Harukami Subject: IN> Torontonian Tethers Hi, all. I'm gonna be running a couple of games set in Toronto sometime soon, and I figured as TO's the biggest city in Canada, it'd have a fairly complete set of Tethers. Now, I dunno how many other Canadians are on this list, but do any of you have tether suggestions? Off the top of my head, the Science Center seems pretty obvious as a tether to Lightning, and Nathan Phillips Square to Creation, and the little Speaker's Corner box on Queen's St to Media... and of course the Toronto Stock Exchange to Trade, but does anyone have any suggestions for other major Words? Thanks! Haru ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:07:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? - --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > The ethereal idea is pretty good... is there a Canonical > threat of animal > ethereals manifesting vessels before humanity existed? Not before Jordi figured out how to do it, most likely. Then again, he may have learned it from the animal spirits. > Also, does anyone else have any other ideas on who Kobal > served before the Fall? I'd go with Creation or Destiny, but that's just how I'm bent. As for interacting with Celestials who will eventually become Superiors, I think that Saminga's Hellborn (no books with me, so I could be misremembering). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:09:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Discord This could easily be a manifestation of the Ugly Discord. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:11:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Words - --- BC Petery wrote: > Is there a list of "Words that have been granted in > Canon?" I believe that the INC has a Rogues Gallery listing every canonical character published up to a certain point (I think that the whole Rev cycle is covered, but I don't know what else is). Other than that the only way to find all of the canonical Word-bound is to go through all of the books and more than a few issues of Pyramid (if those are considered canon). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:27:50 -0700 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: IN> New Ethereal Spirit I thought about waiting until the EPG came out, but then the idea *demanded* to be released. For the past 50 years, she has been one of the more loyal Ethereals to the cause of Hell. Nybbas put her on a wave that shows no sign of breaking anytime soon and she is loathed and revered throughout Earth. She is seen as the ideal woman by some and an image of unrealistic expectations in others. And most of all, she is an example of a spirit that has thrived under the guidance of the Demon Princes. Who knew that Barbie was this evil? As a spirit, Barbie has a selfish streak that could put many Balseraphs to shame. She's vain, self-centered and more shallow than a kiddie pool. She can be extremely vicious towards any competition that threatens the attention little girls lavish upon her (The "Mermaid Sushi" incident is the reason that the Disney spirits hate her so openly). In spite of (Or because of) her behavior, a few Demon Princes prize her greatly. Nybbas keeps her updated on the Next Big Thing and makes sure that the next doll releases follow it. She can be seen on Andrealphus' arm for certain functions (She's more....anatomically correct as a spirit than a doll). And Mammon cherishes the greed she brings out in children and adult collectors alike. Barbie's Ethereal realm is lavish. She has every single modern convenience and spares no expense in acquiring more (After all, she's not paying for it). Visitors to her domain learn the value of flattery and exorbitant gifts. The area in and around the house is constantly hosting some kind of party. Demons of Lust are frequent guests as are several different Ethereal Spirits that can afford to pay the Essence to get in. As a combatant, Barbie is very poorly skilled. She prefers Songs of Charm and Harmony, which she excels at with her perfect voice. She also makes extensive use of the Song of Form to appear as any ethnicity she desires. And if things turn bloody, she has a staff of Servitors of Media on call to protect her. The Host has different reactions to her. Laurence and David's angels treat any of her manifestations on Earth as they would any other Ethereal (This annoys Barbie, who thinks she rates more attention than a common Ethereal. Nybbas has had to explain that attention from Laurence or David is *NOT* what she wants.). Christopher treats her with open hostility. Although a Barbie is the first doll many little girls get, he loathes the greed and self-image problems that she inspires. The rest of Heaven views her as a minor annoyance that will fade with time. In a demonic campaign, Barbie could be a valuable ally as long as the demons remember that SHE is more important than THEY are. Demons who forget that may find themselves explaining their behavior to Nybbas. But if they remain properly fawning, she would even be willing to give them shelter in her realm. With an angelic campaign, Barbie will not be encountered too often. But her very nature would even grate on the nerves of Novalis' Servitors (Who may be the first to reach for the chainsaws after the first ten minutes). Ethereals tend to have mixed feelings about her. Many envy her success but almost as many look forward to the day she is taken down a few notches. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:38:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit Heh. Dead on the money, that. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:52:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Michael Walton wrote: > I'd go with Creation or Destiny, but that's just how I'm > bent. My tuppence is to let Kobal just be the Angel of Laughter. Period. Back then there were lots of Wordbounds who just served their Word without any other Boss than God. The Council wasn't formed until after the Fall, and even Michael didn't become an AA until the Fall. (Even if he's the eldest of the normal angels.) > As for interacting with Celestials who will eventually > become Superiors, I think that Saminga's Hellborn (no books > with me, so I could be misremembering). Nope. According to the timeline in the GMG he was created in almost 70 million years before that thing with Gabriel and the jewish maiden. ;) Doesn't say when he Fell, but it (again the Timeline(TM)) does specifically mention that he witnessed the extincion of the dinos on his very first visit to Earth. Something to toy with..? :) - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:59:28 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? > As for interacting with Celestials who will eventually > become Superiors, I think that Saminga's Hellborn (no books > with me, so I could be misremembering). According to the Gamemaster's Guide, Saminga was created 67 million years ago -- just in time to ironically see the dinosaurs get wiped out. Who would Saminga have served? Eli? Ben ------------------------------ Date: 23 Sep 2002 17:56:03 -0400 From: daniel sauve Subject: Re: IN> Torontonian Tethers Harukami writes: > Hi, all. > > I'm gonna be running a couple of games set in Toronto sometime soon, and I > figured as TO's the biggest city in Canada, it'd have a fairly complete set > of Tethers. Now, I dunno how many other Canadians are on this list, but do > any of you have tether suggestions? Off the top of my head, the Science > Center seems pretty obvious as a tether to Lightning, and Nathan Phillips > Square to Creation, and the little Speaker's Corner box on Queen's St to > Media... Actually, trade and creation have been battling over that little piece of realestate since chum/ city put it up. > and of course the Toronto Stock Exchange to Trade, but does anyone > have any suggestions for other major Words? I'd make Wonderland a Media hot-spot, myself, but only post Paramount takeover. Sky dome is an engineering marvel, that proved man COULD do something thought extremely difficult-- I'd give it to Lightening. Union station, were all the trains and buses link up (TSC Subway, Ontario's GO Transit, national Via, et all) might be a Windy hot spot, if not a tether. And, for the heck of it, my favorite comic shop is Eli's, run by a trusted mecurian hippy. Hairy Tarantulas on young. Oh, Eaton Center might be a Trade tether. The Edge's open radio station at 228 Young is either media or creation. Sam the Record Man's is a Joint Tether between Novalis and Marc... - --- Delirious Daniel, but that's me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:13:15 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit > Who knew that Barbie was this evil? I'm not so sure the positive thinking generated by all the children who play with Barbie would be outdone by the negative thinking generated by the adults who dislike her. Millions of kids love Barbie. Millions of adults like or dislike her a little bit. A small number of adults hate her. The balance seems to be on the side of Barbie's fans. Barbie would be good. She would try to encourage people to take care of their bodies and aspire to many different jobs. She would love children and want people to work hard so they could live comfortable lives. If a chubby child sees thin Barbie and feels bad about, that's the doing of Haagenti or some cruel Habbalite. If a little girl only gets to play with Princess Barbie and doesn't feel like she can ever become anything but a pretty little girl, that's the fault of Nybbas or Malphas. Barbie herself, as a pacifist, happy, encouraging toy for little girls, was either created by humans or it was the result of hard work by Novalis. Remember that the original Barbie was based on a German prostitute doll. It takes a lot of work, human or angelic, to turn such a negative toy into such a positive one. I bet Andrealphus was furious. One only has to take off Ken's pants to see the proof. It's easy to create an evil Barbie, but a good, simple Barbie that is confused by why so many people hate her would be much more of a challenge -- and, for me at any rate, more believable. Your write-up is good and well-thought out for someone who enjoys the idea of Angels taking swords to Barbie. I just disagree with the path you took and think a good Barbie on the side of the Archangel Christopher is a more mentally-challenging idea... your idea is quite suitable to a dark campaign, while the above write-up would work well for a standard or bright one. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:25:52 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN> Words >Is there a list of "Words that have been granted in Canon?" Every time I >come up with an idea for a Word Bound I always wonder if that word has been >used. Well, while it doesn't show who has the Words or which of them are dead, this is the best I can give since the encyclopedia seems to be dead again. http://www.sjgames.com/innomine/articles/new/GMs/Resources/inverse_words.html _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:26:44 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit *laughs* This is so perfect! You don't know just how bad I despise Barbie and all she represents ^_^ nice work with this one, can't wait to see her stats and updated EPG version. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:32:11 -0700 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit >>I'm not so sure the positive thinking generated by all the children who play with Barbie would be outdone by the negative thinking generated by the adults who dislike her. In my opinion, it's more than just the negative feelings generated by the adults. It's the flood of advertising that occurs whenever new Barbie products hit the shelves. >>If a chubby child sees thin Barbie and feels bad about, that's the doing of Haagenti or some cruel Habbalite. Humans have a far greater capacity for cruelty than a lot of demons though. >>Barbie herself, as a pacifist, happy, encouraging toy for little girls, was either created by humans or it was the result of hard work by Novalis. I would see her as more of a human creation that took off. >>I just disagree with the path you took and think a good Barbie on the side of the Archangel Christopher is a more mentally-challenging idea... your idea is quite suitable to a dark campaign, while the above write-up would work well for a standard or bright one. I feel that the idea of an Ethereal Barbie that is a good spirit and confused about the hatred directed towards her and with only one Archangel speaking in her defense is better suited for a Dark Campaign. As for the bit about "Mentally Challenging" I will ignore the rather inflammatory nature of that statement to point out that I was presenting this as a bit of humor and little else. As for the "Angels Taking Swords to Ethereals" remark, that is a fairly common (And Canonical) reaction among much the Host. But in the campaign I am a player in, we have let Ethereals go that by rights we should have reduced to a Force stain on the ground. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:20:27 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit > In my opinion, it's more than just the negative feelings generated by the > adults. It's the flood of advertising that occurs whenever new Barbie > products hit the shelves. Even then, all advertising does is change opinions, and I believe the mild opinions most adults have about Barbie would be out-done by the love millions of Children have for her in anything but a dark campaign. In a brighter campaign -- if you accept the premise that Barbie is basically a positive toy -- the advertising could easily be one of the successes Marc has achieved in his battles against Nybass. Alongside GI Joe, it's one of his strategies in beating the Media. Remember that advertising itself is neither good nor bad. It's the content that's bad. In a darker campaign, He-Man is pushed on kids by Alaemon and Malphas, Smurfs are pushed by Flurity, and the Thundercats are Andrealphus's favorite cartoon. That's depressing (and a little comical). > As for the bit about "Mentally Challenging" I will ignore the rather > inflammatory nature of that statement to point out that I was presenting this > as a bit of humor and little else. As for the "Angels Taking Swords to > Ethereals" remark, that is a fairly common (And Canonical) reaction among much > the Host. But in the campaign I am a player in, we have let Ethereals go that > by rights we should have reduced to a Force stain on the ground. I'm sorry -- I didn't mean that to be insulting to you or anyone. I was only suggesting that the 'path of least resistance' when coming up with an Ethereal Barbie would be to make her a bad guy. And I certainly have no problems with angels taking swords to Ethereals, nor do I have problems with letting interesting Ethereals live for the sake of a good and fun game. It was the idea of angels taking swords to Barbie that made my brain giggle. It's my own bias against silly In Nomine at fault, and not you or your write-up, which was quite good. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 19:27:14 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? >My tuppence is to let Kobal just be the Angel of Laughter. Period. Back >then there were lots of Wordbounds who just served their Word without any >other Boss than God. The Council wasn't formed until after the Fall, and >even Michael didn't become an AA until the Fall. (Even if he's the eldest >of the normal angels.) > Are you sure he wasn't an AA or just an AA without a Word? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:32:15 -0700 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:20:27 -0600 Rampaging Crypto-Man said unto us: >>Remember that advertising itself is neither good nor bad. It's the content that's bad. Also remember that advertising is a form of Media, of which there is no Archangel with that Word. That would make her ripe for Nybbas. "Barbie, sweetie, I'm telling you. We're going to make you FAMOUS! I'm talking commercials, toys, lunchboxes, just about anything your little heart desires. All you have to do is sign here." >>I was only suggesting that the 'path of least resistance' when coming up with an Ethereal Barbie would be to make her a bad guy. If you have ever worked in a toy department during the Christmas rush, you would be hard pressed to find anything good about Barbie. -:-) >>It was the idea of angels taking swords to Barbie that made my brain giggle. I like the image of a Mercurian of Flowers reaching for something sharp within the first few minutes of meeting her myself. >>It's my own bias against silly In Nomine at fault, and not you or your write-up, which was quite good. Thank you. Personally, I GM a fairly straightforward game but I play in a campaign with a bit of Silliness and Brightness thrown in together. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 01:35:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Josh Moger wrote: > >even Michael didn't become an AA until the Fall. (Even if he's the eldest > >of the normal angels.) > > Are you sure he wasn't an AA or just an AA without a Word? Well yes. Page..umm..93 in the GMG: 22625 BC: The Fall. "...Michael is made Archangel of War and appointed General of HEaven's armies. ..." :) - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:59:14 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? > > Are you sure he wasn't an AA or just an AA without a Word? > > Well yes. Page..umm..93 in the GMG: > > 22625 BC: The Fall. > > "...Michael is made Archangel of War and appointed General of HEaven's > armies. ..." I've always had the impression that Michael was an Archangel of something else, or an Archangel without a Word. In my games, he's the Archangel of God until he throws Lucifer out of Heaven. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 20:18:06 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Engel, Ethereals, & Pseudo-Angels Hey folks, I know I haven't been around much lately, but I've been distracted by Nobilis and school (in that order). In any case, I was wandering the web when I noticed that excepts from the German angel game "Engel" are up on the White Wolf site (they're translating and publishing the game). Strangely enough, it seems that Engel not-so-clandestinely plays with the same themes that I explored in the "They Are Very Much Like Us" series I wrote many moons ago: i.e. the angels (or Engel, in this case) are actually the pawns of otherworldly/alien/supernatural forces and not the servants of the Lord that they believe themselves to be. Basically, they are given angelic form and indoctrinated to believe themselves to be angels just so that they will receive the full support of the mortal populace and so they will go kill "demonic thing" X (where X is the enemy of said otherworldly/alien/supernatural forces). This theme is at least as old as Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End," where an alien race coincidentally looks like streotypical demons, and so makes an effort to wipe out (or wait out) religious traditions before showing their true forms to the superstitious humans. It also plays upon the beliefs of the Ethereals in IN: that God is just a pumped-up dream-fragment and not an omnipotent being worthy of human (& angel) esteem, worship, and obedience. So my question is: Have people dealt with this kind of "secret conspiracy" stuff in their campaigns? Have you had PC angels discover that everything they believe in is a lie? Is it possible that God (or Yves, that sneaky bastard) invented this whole scheme and ultimately there're no underlying truths supporting Celestial beliefs about the universe? Maybe Michael is ultimately the product of super-advanced alien technology and not the Breath of God (as humans believe), God's fiddling with Forces (as Celestials believe), or the collective dreaming of humanity (as some Ethereals believe). I mean it. He _could_ be. No. Really. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2783 ********************************