in_nomine-digest Tuesday, September 24 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2784 In this digest: IN> Lucifer's Liver (or evidence that Kobal has a presence in the Marches) Re: IN> Lucifer's Liver (or evidence that Kobal has a presence in the Marches) Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Torontonian Tethers Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Engel, Ethereals, & Pseudo-Angels Re: IN> Restaurant of Lost Souls Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Lucifer's Liver (or evidence that Kobal has a presence in the Marches) Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Lucifer's Liver (or evidence that Kobal has a presence in the Marches) Re: IN> Restaurant of Lost Souls Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit Re: IN> Lucifer's Liver (or evidence that Kobal has a presence in the Marches) IN> Adventure ideas? IN> New Ethereal Spirit RE: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Re: IN> Adventure ideas? IN> Who made who? IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. IN> Looking for... IN> Will Shackles Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> Will Shackles IN> Celestials and breathing Re: IN> Will Shackles Re: IN> Will Shackles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 19:13:45 -0700 From: Vaughn Romero Subject: IN> Lucifer's Liver (or evidence that Kobal has a presence in the Marches) [Grumble. I'm sorry if this post shows up twice. I sent it from the wrong account the first time. -Vaughn] So there I was minding my own business, riding in a yellow school bus down a lonely country road looking through the window at the drive-in movie theatre screen out in the middle of an open field. All was good and as it should be. There were aluminum bleachers partially facing the movie screen - they faced the screen at a 45 degree angle - but I knew that was because people sometimes wanted to watch the football game as well as the movie. All this made sense, and so it was no real surprise when the invisible person sitting next to me asked, "So what evidence do we have of God's hand since Creation?" Without hesitation I answered matter-of-factly, "What about Lucifer's Liver..." Then there was a ringing noise, and it wouldn't go away. The phone call dragged me out of the Marches and into the real world. Somewhere in the shower I began to wonder, "What in the hell is Lucifer's Liver?" Here are two attempts to answer that question. * * * LUCIFER'S LIVER Some say that each of the archangels helped create the humans of the Eden experiment. To each archangel God assigned a part of the human body. To Yves he gave the brain, to Michael the hand, and to Lucifer he gave the liver. The liver you may ask? Why didn't God give Lucifer the eyes? Surely the Archangel of Light should have gotten the eyes, and Uriel should have gotten the liver? We're talking about God here, and He has His reasons. Besides He had already given the eyes to Gabriel, and Uriel got the excretory tract. Don't look at me like that, someone had to make it. So Lucifer set about making this most useful organ as best he could. He experimented with a glowing liver that provided a guiding light, but it's placement in the rib cage severely limited its usefulness. He also tried making light a viable food source for humans, but the other archangels convinced him that humans were unlikely to stand around with their mouths open waiting for light to pour in. I suppose future events may have proven these nay Sayers wrong, but nonetheless Lucifer settled on a design where the liver could purge all toxins no matter how strong and digest all food no matter how inedible. This was a very useful design argued Lucifer. The Host didn't want their experimental subjects dying of an upset tummy after all? Did they really want to trust humans to figure out that blow fish were poisonous? After some debate Lucifer's plan was approved and the Eden humans were created. Lilith and Adam enjoyed their created bodies, although Lilith couldn't get Adam to us his body quite the way she wished he would. After Lilith left, the Host agreed that Eve should get a slightly modified body, but Lucifer's original liver design was left intact. To everyone's surprise, Lucifer's liver was a smash success. In the course of a mere decade it had saved Adam hundreds of time - was there anything that man wouldn't put in his mouth? Lilith and Eve had gotten benefit from it as well in their efforts to figure out what every plant and animal were good for. What no one expected, except for perhaps God, was that Eve would eat the Fruit of Knowledge. Now, had the Host been thinking, they would have had Lucifer build in a failsafe just for such an occasion. But, they didn't, and Eve ate of the Fruit and then Adam did and in both cases neither one of them got sick from it. Well, you know the rest of the story from here, Adam and Eve were evicted from the Garden and settled somewhere to the East to raise the remainder of their family. Thing was, they still had their Lucifer-made livers and so did their children. This wasn't much of a problem at first, but it didn't take an evolutionary biologist to figure out that Adam and his little family would soon out breed and out live all the other humans on the planet. I mean, when they got bit by a snake they just shrugged it off and let their liver go to work. A few minutes later and they were good as new. So you can see that God had a problem here. His experiment was getting out of hand. If Adam and Eve kept having their super children, and their super children had more super children, well then His whole plan for humanity would be over before it had begun. So God came to Cain and Abel and removed their livers. Don't worry - He gave them new ones - and they were pretty much like the old ones except that they could not be inherited by their children. That solved the problem, well except that every once in a while Lucifer gives out a new one... * * * There is a tale told in Hell of Lucifer once granting a boon to a human. Who the human is changes from time to time, but the boon always stays the same: No matter what - or how much - the human ingests, he will be fine. "Enjoy life without consequences," Lucifer tells the human. And the human takes Lucifer up on his offer and indulges in all manner of pleasures: drinking, drugs, fatty foods, and the occasional sharp pointy thing just to prove that he can eat *anything* and never suffer for it. After several years of debauchery the human meets Lucifer again. The details of the meeting vary, but most agree that it is at the moment the human meets his Fate. Lucifer asks about the human's many gastronomic exploits and laughs in awe and wonder at the depths of his depravity. The next day, the human is admitted to the hospital for liver failure, and dies within a matter of hours - his liver ravaged by years of seemingly impossible abuse. In Hell the damned soul demands of Lucifer, "You told me to enjoy life without consequences. Why am I here?" "I said you could enjoy *life* without consequences, not death. In death you are mine." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:20:01 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer's Liver (or evidence that Kobal has a presence in the Marches) > would be over before it had begun. So God came to Cain and Abel and removed > their livers. Don't worry - He gave them new ones - and they were pretty Must resist.... urge.... must... resist.... oh, the hell with it: "Can we 'ave your liver, then?" - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:36:56 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? >On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Josh Moger wrote: > >> >even Michael didn't become an AA until the Fall. (Even if he's the eldest >> >of the normal angels.) >> >> Are you sure he wasn't an AA or just an AA without a Word? > >Well yes. Page..umm..93 in the GMG: > >22625 BC: The Fall. > >"...Michael is made Archangel of War and appointed General of HEaven's >armies. ..." > >:) > Oh, aye, I see how it is. Bringing out the Canon on me, eh? But, is it explicitly said that Archangel status is dependent on the possession of a Word? Could be that he was the most powerful angel up there, at least in terms of might, and thus would be technically an Archangel, though not a Worded one. Huh. Humorous idea of Michael taunting Lucifer- "Yeah? I don't even have Word Forces to back me up, lightboy. Bring it on!" Course by now I'm imagining something like the wheelchaired bound neighbor from Family Guy... and thus imagining Asmodeus as Family Guy... ::snortle:: Josh ^_^' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:47:22 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? > >Course by now I'm imagining something like the wheelchaired bound neighbor >from Family Guy... and thus imagining Asmodeus as Family Guy... > Doht. Permit me a Homer Simpson moment. I just watched Donnie Darko, I shouldn't have to think too hard. I meant to say: and thus imagining Asmodeus as Stewie, from Family Guy. Yesssss... Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:11:21 -0500 From: "Matthew Walsh" Subject: Re: IN> Torontonian Tethers >>> harukami@sentex.net 09/23/02 07:06PM >>> > I'm gonna be running a couple of games set in Toronto sometime soon, and I > figured as TO's the biggest city in Canada, it'd have a fairly complete set > of Tethers. Now, I dunno how many other Canadians are on this list, but do > any of you have tether suggestions? Being a former Toronto resident, I've actually thought about this. Depending on your interpretation of Marc, you could either pick "Bay Street" (i.e. the whole dozen blocks of tall bank buildings) or Kensington Market as a Tether to Trade... maybe both, if you want Marc to be the big power in town. I could see a small Tether to Stone in one of the older, working-class neighbourhoods like Parkdale or the area around Gerrard and Pape. And an intermittent Creation Tether on the Danforth, only active during the "Taste" festival three days each year. (Another possible Creation Tether: out on Lake Ontario, formed by the international fireworks competitions held there.) There could easily be a Tether to Lightning, Technology, or even Death based in a s u b way station. (I think St. George is the one that generally attracts jumpers, but I might be mistaken.) The site of that murder of the rabbi this summer, up at Bathurst/Sheppard, could either be a Tether to Factions (from the murder itself) or Stone (from the subsequent reaction of the surrounding Jewish community). One source of possible Tether sites might be Mackenzie's failed rebellion in 1837. I'd recommend reading the play "1837: The Farmers' Revolt" for some ideas. The inn where the rebels met might be a Tether to Freedom or War; the drawing-room where the urban gentry withdrew their support from Mackenzie might go to Factions; and the building that housed Mackenzie's printing-press for the newspaper could be a Tether to the Wind. Other nearby Tether possibilities: the Hamilton steel mills, Niagara Falls, the nuclear plant in Darlington, Molson Park in Barrie, Sleeman's brewery in Guelph. HTH, - - - Matt - - - ----- Matt Walsh, B.Math, Ph.D. Everyone generalises from just one example... At least, I do. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 06:18:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Josh Moger wrote: > Oh, aye, I see how it is. Bringing out the Canon on me, eh? BOOM!! >:) > But, is it explicitly said that Archangel status is dependent on the > possession of a Word? Could be that he was the most powerful angel up > there, at least in terms of might, and thus would be technically an > Archangel, though not a Worded one. > Good point. Haven't seen anything to go against that. :) And I admit I was a bit surprised when I read that Mike wasn't made AA of War until that late. Especially considering that Lucifer did have a Word. Maybe Mike was just the Ultimate Heavenly Badass backed by God itself? That way he'd have all the forces he needed, but without formalities? :) > Humorous idea of Michael taunting Lucifer- "Yeah? I don't even have Word > Forces to back me up, lightboy. Bring it on!" *sigh* I'm gonna have to hurt you soon. ;P - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:21:30 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Engel, Ethereals, & Pseudo-Angels Heh. I had a Mercurian appear in full, winged, translucent (the "Fear Not!" Song), Angelic-speaking glory before my Mundane PCs, and one of them still managed to pop off a wisecrack - and decided that his character believed the whole thing was an alien conspiracy anyway. ;^) William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:24:30 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Restaurant of Lost Souls Would the author of this piece please send it to me? Stupid, stupid Hotmail never delivered it. And William Keith? If you;d please send me a copy of your "A Day in the Marches", I'd appreciate it greatly. - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 21:29:57 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Unni Solaas wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Josh Moger wrote: > > > >even Michael didn't become an AA until the Fall. (Even if he's the eldest > > >of the normal angels.) > > > > Are you sure he wasn't an AA or just an AA without a Word? > > Well yes. Page..umm..93 in the GMG: > > 22625 BC: The Fall. > > "...Michael is made Archangel of War and appointed General of HEaven's > armies. ..." > The trouble is that that contradicts Michael's expanded writeup (in which Lucifer calls him War) and Baal's expanded writeup (in which he Fell because he was jealous of knowing that he would always be /second/-greatest of all the Archangels). Sources are contradictory. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:27:31 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? >> >Good point. Haven't seen anything to go against that. :) And I admit I was >a bit surprised when I read that Mike wasn't made AA of War until that >late. Especially considering that Lucifer did have a Word. Maybe Mike was >just the Ultimate Heavenly Badass backed by God itself? That way he'd have >all the forces he needed, but without formalities? :) > Aye, well, it would help explain Michael's "He Who Is Like God" image if he wasn't solely devoted to War before the Fall. >> Humorous idea of Michael taunting Lucifer- "Yeah? I don't even have Word >> Forces to back me up, lightboy. Bring it on!" > >*sigh* I'm gonna have to hurt you soon. ;P > Oh yeah? ::flexes:: BRING IT ON!! Josh Growing ever closer to the Word of ^_^' and the powers it shall bestow... Hmm... wonder if Michael needs a servitor Wordbound to ^_^'..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:37:15 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer's Liver (or evidence that Kobal has a presence in the Marches) Bwa ha ha! This was great. I liked both stories, though being in the mood for humor I really enjoyed the first one better. Just one thing that kept bouncing through my head after I read the title: "Lucifer's liver, lad, didn't you check the pressure gauge?" - -- William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:46:29 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? >Sources are contradictory. IIRC, Michael had the Word of War, but not the title of Archangel. Haven't seen Baal's writeup. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:27:22 -0600 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer's Liver (or evidence that Kobal has a presence in the Marches) Vaughn Romero wrote: >No matter what - or how much - the human ingests, he will be fine. "Enjoy >life without consequences," Lucifer tells the human. And the human takes >Lucifer up on his offer and indulges in all manner of pleasures: drinking, >drugs, fatty foods, and the occasional sharp pointy thing just to prove that >he can eat *anything* and never suffer for it. > Haagenti approves. - -- Steven E. Ehrbar ehrbar@softhome.net stevenehrbar@elp.rr.com We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech. - David Brin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 07:26:04 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Restaurant of Lost Souls At 12:24 AM 9/24/2002 -0400, Eric Bertish wrote: >Would the author of this piece please send it to me? Stupid, stupid Hotmail >never delivered it. I'm not the author, but I'll forward it anyway. :D - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 05:45:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit - --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > Even then, all advertising does is change opinions But when it changes those opinions in the direction of selfishness, that serves Hell. > Remember that advertising itself is > neither good nor bad. It's the content that's bad. _Con_tent isn't as critical as _in_tent. It's not what's in the ad, it's what the ad is meant to accomplish. If the intent is to encourage greed in children (which Barbie does brilliantly) or to damage the self-esteem of little girls (which she does almost as well), that's more Hellish than Heavenly. My appreciation for the write-up was due to how well it conformed to RL images of Barbie. Granted that this isn't the only view -- it just happens to be the one that I hold. I admit my bias in this case. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 05:52:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer's Liver (or evidence that Kobal has a presence in the Marches) I *love* the ending of this. Mad props! =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:19:32 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Adventure ideas? > I am running an In Nomine adventure set before the > creation of mankind. [snip] The idea is that we'll > fast-forward the > game every session so we'll play through the Fall, > ancient history, and so on, until the modern day. Aha! Now we know why Celestials can go for millenia without gaining skills or Forces: They get fast-forwarded! :) Don't forget that there are no Malakim before the Rebellion. Giving your players the option of conversion could be an interesting source of pathos. Becoming a stranger in a world which is so familiar, like a veteran returning from a war. Everything and everyone else is the same, but you've changed so much even your friends and former choirmates don't recognize you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:19:33 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> New Ethereal Spirit > Who knew that Barbie was this evil? Ooh! Ooh! I did! I did! Lady Barbara (aka Royal Seamstress) of the Fashdol Tribe. http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login/article.cgi?2726 Another of "My Favorite Campaigns I Never Played." It might make an interesting Ethereal Realm, tho. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > I just disagree with the path you took > and think a good Barbie on the side of > the Archangel Christopher is a more > mentally-challenging idea... (Vision of Christopher creating a new Reliever for each new Barbie model.) "And this is Talking Barbie, and this is Mommy Barbie with the pregnancy option, and this is where Veterinarian Barbie would be but she's in service to Jordi right now, and this is..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:20:51 +0300 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Adventure ideas? - -----Original Message----- From: BC Petery [mailto:bpetery@yahoo.com] Don't forget that there are no Malakim before the Rebellion. Giving your players the option of conversion could be an interesting source of pathos. Becoming a stranger in a world which is so familiar, like a veteran returning from a war. Everything and everyone else is the same, but you've changed so much even your friends and former choirmates don't recognize you. DS1 I was thinking all along that the interesting aspects of this were the relationships with angels who fell and how you relate to them afterwards, but you're right, the Malakim angle is a good one too. Look at the way David and Novalis feel about one another now as opposed to how they worked together before. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:36:10 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? Look at the way >David and Novalis feel about one another now as opposed to how they worked >together before. > Well, yes, but also look at what David was before the Fall- he was one of the first, if not THE first Cherub. He was the embodiment of Love for humanity. He was a protector, but also one who could share empathy and sympathy with those he sheparded. And he permanently cast it aside in a fit of rage. Whats worse, Novalis probably saw herself as a protege of David, prior to the Fall. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:04:00 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? At 12:36 PM 9/24/2002 -0400, Josh Moger wrote: >Well, yes, but also look at what David was before the Fall- he was one of >the first, if not THE first Cherub. He was the embodiment of Love for >humanity. He was a protector, but also one who could share empathy and >sympathy with those he sheparded. Fundamental problem here: "Cherub" != "someone with empathy and sympathy". (Furthermore, "Cherub" != "someone who loves humanity".) David was the Angel of Stone, even before the Fall. As a Cherub, he probably favored aspects that involved stone always being present, always watching, or that involved the idea of the mountainous cave as a safe haven. He likely worked with Eli (in the case of cave paintings) and Oannes (to form many of said caves). He also would have worked with Novalis (whose status as an angel with a Word I am uncertain of before the Fall) to help create plants that could live in rocky terrain, and which displayed the properties of rock (tough and unyielding or resilient, as well as omnipresent). There are two angels that I can think of offhand who would make better proteges (IMESHO) to David than Novalis, one of whom is still an angel: Magog, the Angel of Fortitude... and Dominic, the Angel of Judgment. Novalis probably saw herself as a protege to Eli, which may have been one reason she didn't turn Malakite. Now, I'll grant that all of this comes directly from nowhere in particular; I have no books with me. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:59:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Josh Moger wrote: > >*sigh* I'm gonna have to hurt you soon. ;P > > > > Oh yeah? ::flexes:: BRING IT ON!! *poke* There. Now I'm attuned to you and can follow you around wherever you go, protecting you from danger and stuff. Hey, momma even gave me this neat ability to hide in the foliage, so if like, you have a date with a hot mercurian I won't be visible to disturb you. And then I can protect you BOTH! Yay! 0:) *boingiboingi* - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas - Cherub of Flowers :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:29:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Adventure ideas? - --- Unni Solaas wrote: > fun. Unni... you are so WRONG. My kinda person, you are. 0;> =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:27:01 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: IN> Who made who? Who created whom? Who made the first several Angels? The first seven angels, all created by God, were Lucifer, Michael, Baal, David, Gabriel, Uriel and Eli. Along with Yves, these nine entities made all other angels. Here's the short list: GOD: Lucifer, Michael, Baal, David, Gabriel, Uriel, Eli. LUCIFER: Kobal, Jean. MICHAEL: No-one. (Jordi?) BAAL: No-one. URIEL: Oannes, Janus. ELI: Novalis, Saminga, Jordi. (Andrealphus and Kobal?) DAVID: Beleth, Dominic, Asmodeus, Malphas, Marc. GABRIEL: Belial, Andrealphus. YVES: Raphael, Blandine. (Jean?) God was named by Yves and created the first seven angels. After that, I can find someone to create all of the other angels, so it's a good guess that God got out of the angel-creation business. Lucifer is the Lightbringer. His close and weird relationship with Kobal suggests that he made him. Jean, as the Archangel of Lightning, could also have been one of Lucifer's creations. Michael was always Heaven's champion, but I can't think of anyone he made. There's a possibility he made Jordi (competition and the animal world go together well), but you'd think Michael would not have had to pursuade his own creation not to wipe out mankind -- he would've just ordered. Then again, structure was poor in those days, so maybe he didn't have that kind of authority. Interestingly, I can't figure out anyone who Baal created early on either. Was the Archangel of Valor trying to be too much like Michael? I almost made him Malphas's maker. Malphas probably embodied Uniqueness or Individuality before the Fall, and these concepts work well with Valor. Uriel, the Archagel of Purity, would be well-positioned to be the creator of Oannes and Janus. Oannes was Water, a pure and purifying substance, and Janus is well-known as his brother. As Archangel of Creation, Eli could've created anyone. I pick Novalis, Saminga, and Jordi. Jordi, as the animal world, IS Creation. Novalis, as the plant world, IS creation. Saminga I threw in as a guess -- the Kyriotate eventually fell and embodied Death, which is the end of Creation. Makes sense. And finally, Andrealphus opposed Eli after the Fall... maybe Eli made him, too. Creation and Love aren't so far apart. David could also have created many beings. I ended up making him the maker of Beleth, Dominic, Asmodeus, Malphas and Marc. Beleth embodied Fear, which David would promote as a way for beings to unite. Dominic was a being of Judgement, which is a solemn, objective thing that David would approve of. Asmodeus ends up here as Dominic's co-worker and possible Angel of Justice. Malphas ended up opposed to David after the Fall as the Demon of Factions, so maybe he served David before the Fall. And Marc? Marc promoted Trade... Trade brings people together. Stone approves. Gabriel was always fire and passion. Belial and Andrealphus as angels of flame and love seem like no-brainers. I almost want to say that Yves created no beings, and only named them. If he did make things, then he's the obvious master of Raphael, the Archangel of Knowledge, and Jean, the Archangel of Lightning -- it was these two who were given the secrets of the Universe, after all. Blandine's word of Dreams seems to go very well with Yves' word of Destiny, too. If he didn't make these three, I'd move Jean to Lucifer, Raphael to Gabriel, and Blandine to Eli. I don't have my GMG in front of me or I'd have a more accurate list of who was mentioned prior to the Fall. In any case, this list seems pretty good. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:27:33 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: IN> The sun and celestial movement. I was reading around websites to get ideas for pre-history and pre-humanity adventures for Angels, and I stumbled across the "Break Moe's Brain" contest. I read the winning contest about the undead sun and angels flying to the sun and I thought to myself -- how long would it take an angel to get there? 93 million miles at a rate of (6 yards * Perception) per round. A round is 5 seconds, so... 1> 4,325 years 2> 2,163 years 3> 1,442 years 4> 1,081 years 5> 865 years 6> 721 years 7> 618 years 8> 541 years 9> 481 years 10> 433 years 11> 393 years 12> 360 years The average angel with a 6 or 7 perception takes over half a millenium to fly to the Sun. This means my pre-humanity angels can fly to the sun, wait for ideal Tether conditions to occur, and invoke their Superior to help stabilize the new Tether. Since we're talking about millions of years of adventure time, it's a drop in the bucket to fly to the sun. I think I can squeeze an adventure out of that. Hmmm! An angel with a typical perception of 7 can fly one light year in 39 million years. That means he could fly to Proxima Centauri in 164 million years. When playing in a game with a timeframe of billions, one could've traveled to the five nearest stars in a billion years and the five next closest in another two billion. How about that to make you feel like an angel? I wonder if such a character would ever truly be impatient with short waits after spending a few hundred million years doing nothing but flying through space. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:36:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. - --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > The average angel with a 6 or 7 perception takes over > half a millenium to fly to the Sun. > An angel with a typical perception of 7 can fly one light > year in 39 million years. This assumes that angelic speed is constant even through the interstellar medium. But if angels follow the same rules as corporeal objects, their Perception-based speed rating is not velocity but acceleration. The question then becomes "how long does it take for an angel to accelerate to c?" Of course, by these rules it would take the same amount of time to decelerate, but that simplifies the equation; all you have to do is figure out how long it would take them to get halfway. It then takes the same amount of time to slow down for the second half of the journey. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:02:16 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. >I was reading around websites to get ideas for pre-history and pre-humanity >adventures for Angels, and I stumbled across the "Break Moe's Brain" >contest. I read the winning contest about the undead sun and angels flying >to the sun and I thought to myself -- how long would it take an angel to get >there? I'd wager that any angel that has business on the Sun would be able to petition Gabriel or Soldekai (too busy and/or lazy to look up spelling at the moment) for use of the solar tether. That or Janus could give you his "Ride the Solar Wind" attunement. I'm sure he has one. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:15:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher Anthony" Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Michael Walton said: > This assumes that angelic speed is constant even through > the interstellar medium. But if angels follow the same > rules as corporeal objects, their Perception-based speed > rating is not velocity but acceleration. Presuming, of course, that the angel can make it there in the first place. Has it been established whether angels and demons need to breathe in celestial form? You make a valid point, though. Is celestial speed the same throughout the Symphony, regardless of the corporeal matter that makes up the Symphony at that point, or does it vary with the substance "through" which the celestial is travelling? If the latter, then the listed rate of speed is likely just the speed of an angel moving through Earth atmosphere at STP. In this case, standard multipliers probably apply to travel speed. (This would even be an interesting attunement, as angels and demons of different Words had different speed through different media: angels of the Wind move faster through atmosphere, angels of Light move proportionally as fast as light (in other words, speed of light in air is 0.x times the speed of light in vacuum, and therefore angels of light move 0.x times as fast in air as they do in vacuum), angels of Song move faster and farther underwater...) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:21:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: IN> Looking for... While I was on the digest over the summer Michael Cleveland sent a story "Triad 314 - Techno Remix" If someone could send me a link to where they are on the web if at all or just send me the story, I am missing a portion of it, I would be very grateful. Jim __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:06:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: IN> Will Shackles What are they, where can I find them? Can I get a summary of what they do? Please and Thank you in advance, Jim __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:14:21 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. > Has it been established whether angels and demons need to breathe in > celestial form? > Is celestial speed the same > throughout the Symphony, regardless of the corporeal matter that makes > up the Symphony at that point, or does it vary with the substance > "through" which the celestial is travelling? As far as I know from reading the book before I came to work, angels in celestial form are completely unaffected by gravity and can pass through objects without harm. They can leave the Earth's orbit without being burned up. The corporeal world just doesn't effect them. They don't need to breathe, either -- their vessels require air to stay alive as per the book, but their souls don't. Also, since they are operating outside the bounds of physics, they wouldn't accelerate the way you or I do. The movement rate of (6 * perception) yards applies whether they are levitating, moving through walls, passing through people, or blasting into space. They are reactionless and can stop on a dime. Ofanim in celestial form would definately be mistaken for UFOs if someone made their perception roll. > -EDG Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:42:13 -0400 From: Michael Nutt Subject: Re: IN> Will Shackles > What are they, where can I find them? Can I get a > summary of what they do? They are artifacts that can be found in the Liber Reliquarum, p.81. Basically, they make the wearer obey the owner, with various penalties to (you guessed it) Will. There are some other assorted properties, like toughness/fragility, and they're mostly used by demons. (I think this fits in "fair use" without giving away too much. Liber Reliquarum is a really nifty book -- I recommend it wholeheartedly, as well as Liber Canticorum.) - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:22:33 +0930 From: "G N E Z D A" Subject: IN> Celestials and breathing Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I thought vessels *did* have to breathe? I thought it was one of their little quirks. Don't the bell blossoms (Liber Reliquarum) allow vessels to breathe in any atmosphere? This is off the top of my head, though. Unfortunately, I don't have the relevant books with me at the moment. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 2/08/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:08:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: Re: IN> Will Shackles Thanks for the summary, Michael. I guess they weren't what I thought they were, or maybe so. What I'm looking for is some sort of Artifact that will keep a being locked if you will. A celestial or ethereal in celestial form couldn't ascend, descend, take celestial or ethereal form, nothing. Basically, I want something to power a great big engine for me. I was inspired by Trigun and IMC things are going to lead in the direction of humans discovering celestials, capturing them, and forcing Essence out of them to power their ships and whatnot. I was thinking that Will Shackles would be the early forms or part of this device. Am I on the right track with Will Shackles or do I need to make up something new myself? This is just one of the several plots I want to have running. I'm trying a new experiment with a plot tree. I will have several missions plotted out for the PCs that all take some affect on the setting. They will stop only a few as others are unstopped and progress toward their ends. A world like Trigun is just one of the several outcomes. It is also one of the most detailed, but I imagine alot of it will become accomplished without the PCs even knowing that their actions led to that setting. If anybody's interested I can try to lay it out for list perusal. Jim __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:13:45 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Will Shackles >Basically, I want something to power a great big >engine for me. I was inspired by Trigun and IMC things >are going to lead in the direction of humans >discovering celestials, capturing them, and forcing >Essence out of them to power their ships and whatnot. >I was thinking that Will Shackles would be the early >forms or part of this device. > ::Josh's eyes suddenly widen and the pupils dilate until there's nothing left:: >Am I on the right track with Will Shackles or do I >need to make up something new myself? > I think you're on the right track... And... Well... Is it just me or could Vash/Knives be seen as Elohite/Habbalite? (Love and Peace isn't subjective...) Josh (Rusty gears are a-turnin) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2784 ********************************