in_nomine-digest Thursday, September 26 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2786 In this digest: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> New Heretic Re: IN>Trigun (was Re: IN> Will Shackles) Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> New Heretic Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> PC ideas IN> Fwd: No news from God by David Sanda Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. IN> Fwd: Re: Who Made Who by Vaughn IN>Garr, spooty hotmail Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List Re: IN>Trigun (was Re: IN> Will Shackles) Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. RE: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. RE: IN> The sun and celestial movement. IN> Pyramid IN> Feline vessel Re: IN> Feline vessel RE: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Re: IN> Feline vessel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:11:40 -0400 From: Andrew Dawson Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. I think that I missed something in this discussion. Was there an assumption at the beginning of this discussion that the angels can't descend from Heaven (Celestial Realm) to anywhere in the Corporeal Realm (Sun, another star system)? Is there a canon reason? (I've never run a game off of Earth, so maybe I glossed over this point somewhere.) Thanks, Andy At 11:46 AM 9/25/2002 -0400, EDG wrote: >Erf. I've made a calculation error; in order to reach Earth in time for >the Fall, our Ofanite would have to turn around halfway to Vega. (He >could easily reach Tau Ceti, however, and have several million years with >which to observe it.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:18:04 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. At 09:38 AM 9/25/2002 -0600, Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: >I haven't seen anything in canon that specifically supports it. I just >infered from the parts that say the physical world doesn't effect a >celestial being... if that's true, than things like atmosphere and so on >shouldn't effect it either. And if THAT'S true, than an angel in celestial >form on Earth can accelerate every second until he's doing the speed of >light around the planet over and over and over. There's a difference between not being affected by physical limits and being able to accelerate infinitely. The speed given may in fact be a conceptual limitation, with acceleration and deceleration implicit. >The rules, on the other hand, give angels in celestial form a constant, >non-accelerating movement rate. The speed they move is therefore a cosmic >constant, unaffected by the corporeal realm in any way. This even makes >sense from a physics point of view, since celestial beings have no corporeal >components whatsoever and therefore have no mass, no inertia, and can -- >implicitely -- stop on a time. *Or* acceleration and deceleration is implicit in the movement rate, and not made explicit simply because it adds confusion to a game system that is, by design, as simple as possible. Also, you presume that the celestial form has no mass, inertia, or limits of its own, which is not borne out by the idea of hand-to-hand celestial combat (which requires that two celestial creatures be able to touch each other, and the only way I know of that that can happen is if they have mass relative to one another, if not relative to anything else). I agree with you that this is an ill-defined march of canon, but - again - I don't believe that canon supports it explicitly or implicitly. There's room for possibility here, but not for solid whences or therefores - at least until one of the High Muck-A-Mucks weighs in on the issue. :) Cheers, EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:55:27 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Are there any relics that give the bearer a permanent Song of Shields while worn? And how realistic is the air inside a Song of Shields? A celestial in a vessel with wings could move much faster, but might die of lack of oxygen before he left the orbit of the moon... Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:25:29 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. At 12:11 PM 9/25/2002 -0400, Andrew Dawson wrote: >I think that I missed something in this discussion. Was there an >assumption at the beginning of this discussion that the angels can't >descend from Heaven (Celestial Realm) to anywhere in the Corporeal Realm >(Sun, another star system)? Is there a canon reason? (I've never run a >game off of Earth, so maybe I glossed over this point somewhere.) IIRC: That's correct, yes. An angel descending to Earth in celestial form appears at the last position of his last vessel... unless he uses a Tether. (What this effectively means is that an angel new to Earth *must* use a Tether to get there.) There may be an exception for following someone else down, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. Again, IIRC. No books with me at work, so I may be misremembering. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:24:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. > IIRC: That's correct, yes. An angel descending to Earth in celestial form > appears at the last position of his last vessel... unless he uses a > Tether. (What this effectively means is that an angel new to Earth *must* > use a Tether to get there.) Extending this to the Corporeal Plane as a whole -- if Gabriel has a major Tether in the Sun (canon) and Jean has one in the radiation belts of Jupiter (canon), then it is a reasonable GM ruling that those two could have similar Tethers all over the cosmos. Just about any star is a reasonable Tether to Gabriel, for instance. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:55:03 +0200 (CEST) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, EDG wrote: > I agree with you that this is an ill-defined march of canon, but - again - > I don't believe that canon supports it explicitly or implicitly. There's > room for possibility here, but not for solid whences or therefores - at > least until one of the High Muck-A-Mucks weighs in on the issue. :) > There is one thing bugging me in this discussion about celestial movement across space: Celestials can't spend more than CD minutes in celestial form while on the Corporeal plane. (+/- special modifiers according to choir/band, superiors, stas, whatnot) Was this different way back when? I'd guess it was - with no humans around there was no need for special rules about manifesting on the Corp. plane, but I have to ask..;) - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:57:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> New Heretic - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > > Clean an area (fifty-foot radius) of all garbage.  > Demons count if > > you've tried everything else first and you make > sure that they're > > properly bagged. > > > Moe.... > > Don't ever change. For me, if no one else. Wasn't planning on it, but I thank you anyway. Moe "Of COURSE I included the Traditional Belial Slam, EDG: if I didn't, people would have emailed me asking if I was feeling well" Lane ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 09/18/02 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:59:58 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>Trigun (was Re: IN> Will Shackles) Oh! While I've never seen Trigun sadly, I have read a lot about it, and these are pretty good rationlizations. I have some pretty decent rationlizations of Cowboy Bebop characters if anyones interested :D Vash as a Mercurian is perfect, even if it doesn't fit in too well with the Knives/Twin thing. Knives as a Habbalite or Calabite is perfect. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:08:29 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. At 06:55 PM 9/25/2002 +0200, Unni Solaas wrote: >There is one thing bugging me in this discussion about celestial movement >across space: Celestials can't spend more than CD minutes in celestial >form while on the Corporeal plane. (+/- special modifiers according to >choir/band, superiors, stas, whatnot) Was this different way back when? There are at least two ways to deal with this without having to say "Damn, she's right, back to the drawing board": 1. Yes, it was different way back then. (As I recall, angels were explicitly forbidden to go to Earth after the Eden Experiment, although I may be mistaken about this. The limit on celestial form usage may be a relic of this.) 2. The reason for the limit is the Earth itself. By leaving the Earth's sphere of influence, the celestial divorces himself from the imposed limits; once he reaches another celestial body, he may have that limit again. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:04:46 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN> New Heretic Whistling in the Dark >wrote: > > > > Clean an area (fifty-foot radius) of all garbage.  > > Demons count if > > > you've tried everything else first and you make > > sure that they're > > > properly bagged. > > > > > Moe.... > > > > Don't ever change. For me, if no one else. > >Wasn't planning on it, but I thank you anyway. > >Moe "Of COURSE I included the Traditional Belial Slam, >EDG: if I didn't, people would have emailed me asking >if I was feeling well" Lane > I secind that motion, don't ever change ^_^ this was a unique and neato take on Miss Flowers and Sunshine. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:33:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. - --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > Are there any relics that give the bearer a permanent > Song of Shields while worn? Not in canon, nor would that necessarily be a good thing. Being unable to pick anything up until you take off your gadget can be a major inconvenience. Running out of air is also a problem. > And how realistic is the air inside a Song of > Shields? A celestial > in a vessel with wings could move much faster, but might > die of lack of > oxygen before he left the orbit of the moon... The problem there is that wings work by pushing against the medium. Since the medium in this case is confined to the air inside the shield, the wings would move the angel within the shield rather than through space. Corporeal Motion is much more useful for this application; a permanent CorMotion Artifact is doable and will even provide constant acceleration. The problem is turning it off once you reach your destination. Maybe a set of 1-use CorMotion "rockets" that keep burning until deactivated... =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:34:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > What are the limits on teleportation via the Celestial > Song of Motion? Limited by the CD IIRC, and not very long. However, combining it with the Song of Correspondence extends the range considerably. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:36:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. - --- Andrew Dawson wrote: > Was there an assumption > at the beginning of this discussion that the angels can't > descend from > Heaven (Celestial Realm) to anywhere in the Corporeal > Realm (Sun, another star system)? That seems to be the basic assumption, yes. IN is a very geocentric game. > Is there a canon reason? No, but neither are there any canon examples to the contrary. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:47:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Extending this to the Corporeal Plane as a whole -- if > Gabriel has > a major Tether in the Sun (canon) and Jean has one in the > radiation > belts of Jupiter (canon), then it is a reasonable GM > ruling that > those two could have similar Tethers all over the cosmos. > Just about > any star is a reasonable Tether to Gabriel, for instance. And then we bring in constellations to complicate matters further. Several Superiors may have Tethers with wandering loci corresponding to the stars in one or more constellations. David might have one in Orion, Janus probably has one in Pegasus, Dominic and/or Asmodeus has one in Libra, Oannes/Vephar might have had one in Aquarius or Eridanus, Kronos in Horologium, Laurence in Crux Australis, Michael in Hercules, Blandine in Virgo, Belial in Fornax, etc. The real winner, surprisingly enough, would be Jordi; lots of constellations have animal themes of one kind or another (Ophiuchus, Canes Venatici, Cetus, Vulpa, Mosca and Camelopardalis just to name a few). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:05:54 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. > There is one thing bugging me in this discussion about celestial movement > across space: Celestials can't spend more than CD minutes in celestial > form while on the Corporeal plane. (+/- special modifiers according to > choir/band, superiors, stas, whatnot) Was this different way back when? Yearg! Back to the drawning board. I thought that was only Kyriotates and Shedim who had a time limit in celestial form. > Unni Solaas Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:00:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> PC ideas - --- G N E Z D A wrote: > Okay, I had an idea for a PC in IN, but I'd like to get > your input on it. You asked for it... };> > The character would probably be an ofanim in a large > (about 7 foot) feline > looking vessel. Are we talking feline as in Thundercats or more like a Bastet in Crinos? Is his appearance the result of Discord or a special Vessel? Each option has different problems. a) An angel who accumulated that much Discord would be in real trouble with his AA. That even applies to Creationers, since the only way for them to get Discord is to rack up lots of Choir Dissonance. Not being yourself is one of the few things that Eli would take umbrage with. No matter which AA the angel serves, evidence of that much screwing up is likely to result in an extended celestial desk job. If you go the Discord route, it makes more sense if the PC is an Outcast. b) If it's a special Vessel, why would any AA give an angel a Vessel that hinders his ability to operate on Earth? Your post assumes that children are more accepting of difference than adults, but RL doesn't support this view. Just listen to how cruelly children tease other children who are different (even in small things like being noticeably taller, shorter, thinner or fatter than average) and you'll see what I mean. You're describing a character who is at worst monstrous by Human standards. Most young children would be frightened by that (though middle schoolers, especially boys, might think it's cool). An appearance like a familiar figure might fix this, but even that's no guarantee -- one of my nieces had a screaming fit the first time that she saw someone dressed as the Easter Bunny, and one of my nephews is none too fond of Santa Claus to this day. If you go the special Vessel route, it makes more sense as an "in-case-of-emergency-break-glass-but-only-when-there-are-no-mundanes-around" combat Vessel. Neither of the above objections apply if your campaign has supernaturals openly walking the Earth. Even if that's not the case, this could conceivably work in an IN Anime setting. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:13:40 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: No news from God by David Sanda >Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:27:09 -0500 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [David Sanda ] Remember! posters-L! >Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:18:44 +0200 (Central Europe Daylight Time) >From: David Sanda >Subject: No news from God > >Hi, >i've seen 'No news from God' movie recently and I thought it had few >interesting ideas in the light of In Nomine. >Business-like teams of archangels and demons princes work against each >other. Heaven is dying, no new souls arrive or only those that die >innocent because they never had an apportunity to do evil, passive. >God is gone, not giving out any messages. Not caring really. Then, they >get a request for intervention from mother, about her son. After this, >they may intervene and try to help him to heaven. Well, dear of course >Penelope tries to help him to hell. This soul is somehow to become The >Butterfly... >There are some really interesting remarks there etc, so I was wondering >whether you all've seen it already.. :) To an unknowing person, it is >perhaps a mediocre movie, I think, but IN makes it different.. >David > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:53:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > Yearg! Back to the drawning board. > > I thought that was only Kyriotates and Shedim who had a time limit in > celestial form. They get extra time:) And kyrios can be celestial as long as they want if they have a force posessing, say, a mouse. :) But don't toss the thing away, Ben. Just go with the explanation EDG had about rules being different back then. There is /very/ little canon regarding the very old days, so take these ideas and run with them! :) - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:37:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Re: Who Made Who by Vaughn >Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:37:13 -0500 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["Emeth" ] Remember, In_Nomine_Posters-L is made just for this purpose! O:> >From: "Emeth" >Subject: Re: Who Made Who >Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:31:27 -0700 > >On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 "Rampaging Crypto-Man" wrote: >> Who created whom? Who made the first several Angels? > >Wow, it's like deja vu all over again. If you're looking for some other >takes on who made who, I have a rather long list I can send you (or anyone >else). Just me an e-mail message or look through the archives for Monday, >February 4 2002, Volume 01 : Number 2537, when I originally posted my list. > >Vaughn >-Most recent unwitting Servitor of Haagenti > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:32:33 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: IN>Garr, spooty hotmail Well, seems that I got kicked to the digest again because of Hotmail sucking - -_-;; I'm going to go back onto the regular list, but I'm not going to post until I can find a good email service that wont do this kind of stuff, so I wont get whapped back onto digest. If anyone has a suggestion for a mail client aside from Eudora, feel free to tell me :/ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:40:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List At 9:00 PM +0000 9/23/02, Janet Anderson wrote: >I received an offlist message from Beth saying that about twelve different >Hotmail addresses, including mine, had bounced Several times. >on the same day so she had >corralled them all, uns*bbed them, and res*bbed them to the digest. >Apparently for some reason the other people listed on the message didn't >receive it -- perhaps the same problem that was causing trouble in the first >place. Very likely. >(I simply res*bbed myself to the list, since I don't like the digest >either.) And since I got 15 bounces from hotmail addresses, just today, and gods know how many more that I didn't look at yet, I put you -- and others -- right back on the digest. That way, when hotmail hiccups, I only see _one_ bounce. Hotmail is really a very unreliable email provider, and has been even worse in the last month of so. I'd strongly suggest getting a backup email provider if you possibly can. - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:49:02 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List > Hotmail is really a very unreliable email provider, and has been even > worse in the last month of so. I'd strongly suggest getting a backup > email provider if you possibly can. There is a problem with this fine solution: POP accounts cost money. Hotmail is the only free POP email account that I know about, and I think it's ridiculous to have to *pay* to be on a mailing list. The funny thing is, I'm subscribed to other mailing lists, and they haven't said a peep to me about bounced mail. So far I know, I *haven't* bounced a message from those lists, because I haven't seen mysterous responses to threads I never got the beginnings to. So each time I get moved to digest, I'm going to re-subscribe to the regular list. - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:20:47 +0100 From: Harvey Mills Subject: Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List I use tiscali.co.uk , free pop email. My isp is not tiscali. At 17:49 25/09/02 -0400, you wrote: > > Hotmail is really a very unreliable email provider, and has been even > > worse in the last month of so. I'd strongly suggest getting a backup > > email provider if you possibly can. > >There is a problem with this fine solution: POP accounts cost money. >Hotmail is the only free POP email account that I know about, and I think >it's ridiculous to have to *pay* to be on a mailing list. > >The funny thing is, I'm subscribed to other mailing lists, and they haven't >said a peep to me about bounced mail. So far I know, I *haven't* bounced a >message from those lists, because I haven't seen mysterous responses to >threads I never got the beginnings to. > >So each time I get moved to digest, I'm going to re-subscribe to the regular >list. > >-- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:54:59 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. > 93 million miles at a rate of (6 yards * Perception) per round. A round is > 5 seconds, so... > The average angel with a 6 or 7 perception takes over half a millenium to > fly to the Sun. You know, I have a deep and abiding objection to the notion that Ofanim move at a fixed rate and cannot accelerate. - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:55:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Forman Subject: Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List Softhome.net (http://www.softhome.net) is a rather reliable POP3 provider. The sign up process is a bit long and they spam the address a goodly amount, but it won't cost you a red cent to use. - --- Eric Bertish wrote: > > Hotmail is really a very unreliable email > provider, and has been even > > worse in the last month of so. I'd strongly > suggest getting a backup > > email provider if you possibly can. > > There is a problem with this fine solution: POP > accounts cost money. > Hotmail is the only free POP email account that I > know about, and I think > it's ridiculous to have to *pay* to be on a mailing > list. > > The funny thing is, I'm subscribed to other mailing > lists, and they haven't > said a peep to me about bounced mail. So far I know, > I *haven't* bounced a > message from those lists, because I haven't seen > mysterous responses to > threads I never got the beginnings to. > > So each time I get moved to digest, I'm going to > re-subscribe to the regular > list. > > -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:06:31 -0400 From: Michael Bruner Subject: Re: IN>Trigun (was Re: IN> Will Shackles) > > > Is it just me or could Vash/Knives be seen as > > > Elohite/Habbalite? > > > > > > > Actually, I think Vash is too biased to be an Elohite. > > I imagine him as either Mercurian or Cherub. He guards > > people and sacrifices himself to an insane and > > Cherubic level. He also renounces violence like a > > Mercurian. Vash can't be Mercurian; while he doesn't kill, he's still willing to shoot to wound when needed, and Mercurians can't show any violence of any kind to humans. So probably Cherub would work for him. I'm thinking IST Creation, not loaned out to anybody; Eli's fairly pacifist himself after all. > >Knives I see as a Calabite. Actually, I > > could see Knives aspretty much any band. (Ooh, he'd > > make a nasty Shedim and it'd explain the > > occurences on the ship) Pretty hard to tie him down, although I think Habbalite fits best here. The emotion-twisting would help in brainwashing all his servants to help him given what his cause means for them in the end. I'm guessing he'd probably be of The War; the whole "genocide to save the world" bit sounds about the level of Baalite thinking. Death doesn't quite work since he wanted "his kind" to live, although certainly he was recruiting from Saminga (Legato would probably fit as a Djinn of Death; world-weary, and his treatment of Vash fit with what I might expect of how such a Djinn would act on one he's attuned to). Wolfwood I figure as renegade Djinn of Fate or Dark Humor (the reason he hung around and his ability to keep bumping into Vash seems to fit that, and he had a certain emptiness inside too). >Okay, hope to keep SPOILERS from leaking out to the >anime fans of the audience- WAY too late for that, ever since Knives came up, but... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Also, I seriously see Knives as a Habbalite- >Believes himself to be doing good things. >Believes that people have to be punished. >Has no compunction against killing massive numbers of >people. > >Personally, I saw him as a great way of portraying a >Habbalite of Death and/or a possessor of the Word of >Destruction. Like I said, The War seems to fit great with "mass slaughter for a 'good' cause"; he wasn't really killing *just* for the thrill of it, he had a goal in mind. >Still, we all know that neko is Dominic trailing the >that Mercurian and Cherub of Judgment IST to Trade. ROTFL! Now this I can buy, although I figured maybe it was Dom's kitty finally running a mission. If Vash was a Free Creationer, it would also explain the surveillance. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:39:25 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List > Softhome.net (http://www.softhome.net) is a rather > reliable POP3 provider. The sign up process is a bit > long and they spam the address a goodly amount, but it > won't cost you a red cent to use. Fine. We'll see how this works. Thanks for the heads-up. And if my mail gets bounced from here, then I think the problem lies on SJ's end. - -- Casca "Undead, like the senior citizens of the more traditional democracies, represent a disproportionate segment of the electorate. However, their political leanings are quite different, as the short term is essentially meaningless to one who expects to live for over 1,000 years." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:05:09 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> Hotmail vs the List At 10:39 PM 09/25/02 -0400, Eric Bertish wrote: >And if my mail gets bounced from here, then I think the problem lies >on SJ's >end. The list isn't hosted on sjgames.com; your issue is with IOCOM. - -- Life is an aimless drive that you take alone | Might as well enjoy the ride -- take the long way home. | - -- The Bloodhound Gang, "Take The Long Way Home" | hackard@io.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 00:05:36 -0400 From: Michael Nutt Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Casca wrote: > You know, I have a deep and abiding objection to the notion that Ofanim move > at a fixed rate and cannot accelerate. It's called full friggin' throttle, baby. :) - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:30:55 +0300 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> The sun and celestial movement. - -----Original Message----- From: Eric Bertish [mailto:ebertish@hotmail.com] You know, I have a deep and abiding objection to the notion that Ofanim move at a fixed rate and cannot accelerate. - -- Casca DS1 On the whole I've been skimming the "I'll follow the sun" thread but this statement I have to agree with. Physics be gosh-darned, Ofanim should be the epitome of movement and grace and the thought that they can only stumble along when they have a medium that allows more just doesn't fit my sense of poetry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:04:55 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> The sun and celestial movement. > On the whole I've been skimming the "I'll follow the sun" thread but this > statement I have to agree with. Physics be gosh-darned, Ofanim should be > the epitome of movement and grace and the thought that they can only stumble > along when they have a medium that allows more just doesn't fit my sense of > poetry. You don't have to gosh-darn the physics. Since Celestials don't tire, they can continue at maximum thrust indefinitely. Given a medium with no drag -- like outer space, or being in CelForm -- that adds up to constant acceleration. 500 years to reach the sun? My fire-ringed ass! - -- Casca, who likes playing Ofanim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:13:40 +0300 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> The sun and celestial movement. I'm agreeing with you. - -----Original Message----- From: Eric Bertish [mailto:ebertish@softhome.net] You don't have to gosh-darn the physics. Since Celestials don't tire, they can continue at maximum thrust indefinitely. Given a medium with no drag -- like outer space, or being in CelForm -- that adds up to constant acceleration. 500 years to reach the sun? My fire-ringed ass! - -- Casca, who likes playing Ofanim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:30:19 +0930 From: "G N E Z D A" Subject: IN> Pyramid Just wondering, who here is subscribed to Pyramid magazine? - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 2/08/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 18:15:15 +0930 From: "G N E Z D A" Subject: IN> Feline vessel Well, I intended his vessel to be an unusual vessel over a discordant one. I don't imagine him to look totally feline, but rather a combination of feline and human (imagine Beast from the X-men, but looking more feline as opposed to ape-like). Why Eli allowed this vessel? Well, Eli does allow some weird things to happen... Also, the way I see it, superheroes/supervillains are really basically the same as angels/demons, but for a younger audience. The average teen probably wouldn't want to read a book about 'angels', but he would a book about 'superheroes'. I was strongly considering making him an ethereal spirit but, the problem is, I don't have access to the Ethereal Players Guide playtest, and since it seems like the real EPG is a *long* way off yet, there's no point in making him an ethereal. Don't get me wrong, I plan to be the first person in Australia to buy the EPG- the Marches is my favourite part of the entire IN universe. :) - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 2/08/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:32:43 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Feline vessel At 06:15 PM 9/26/2002 +0930, G N E Z D A wrote: >I was strongly considering making him an ethereal spirit but, the problem >is, I don't have access to the Ethereal Players Guide playtest, and since it >seems like the real EPG is a *long* way off yet, there's no point in making >him an ethereal. If three months is a long way off, then yes; the EPG is slated for a December release in the US. (If the release date is later for Australian markets, you have the option of ordering from Warehouse 23: http://www.warehouse23.com. It isn't currently listed, but I presume that it will be when the book is shipped, if not earlier (for pre-orders).) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:09:12 -0400 From: EDG Subject: RE: IN> The sun and celestial movement. Eric Bertish wrote: >You know, I have a deep and abiding objection to the notion that Ofanim move >at a fixed rate and cannot accelerate. Didn't we just have this discussion? :) Yes, the Ofanite resonance needs work, especially the "move really fast" aspect. I think I understand *why* it was underpowered - the Ofanim effectively get three powers for the price of one - but it doesn't really make sense within the setting. Thought: Every minute that the Ofanite successfully resonates for fast movement, he can add his speed (in miles per minute) from the last minute to his new check digit. (In other words, as long as the Ofanite keeps using his resonance, he keeps accelerating.) Failure on a resonance roll means that the Ofanite decelerates at the rate of CD miles per minute per round, and cannot activate his resonance as normal; simply ceasing to resonate means that the Ofanite can decelerate at any rate he wishes faster than 1 mile per minute per round. An example: Bob the Ofanite, with a Perception of 11, decides he wants to Go Really Fast. He activates his resonance, with a CD of 4, and accelerates to 4 miles per minute. The next minute, he continues his journey: he rolls his resonance again, with a CD 1, and adds that to his previous speed, for a total of 5 miles in the second minute. He does this again, with a CD 6, and the result that he travels 11 miles in the third minute. (By this point, Bob has gone 20 miles in 3 minutes.) However, Bob fails on his next roll, with a CD 2. His speed drops by 2 mpm per round, meaning that in thirty seconds (six rounds) he'll have slowed to zero (and have gone 6.75 miles further in the process). If instead Bob had chosen to stop using his resonance, he could have chosen to decelerate at 1 mpm per round, taking a full minute to slow to zero (and going 9.25 miles further), or to stop on a dime (full, instant deceleration), or anything in between. (A further interesting thought, although one I'm not sure works: an Ofanite may use his resonance when piloting a vehicle to reduce its stresses on its occupants: successful use of the Ofanite's resonance reduces the acceleration felt by the passengers of the car, as measured in multiples of Earth's gravity, by the check digit, to a minimum of zero, for as long as the Ofanite is piloting the vehicle, or until anyone enters or leaves the vehicle. For every full unit of 10 people affected, the Ofanite suffers a penalty of -1 to the target number or the check digit, at his discretion. In addition, the Ofanite can selectively exclude himself from the effect. Therefore, an Ofanite driving a sedan with three people in it could reduce the acceleration forces they experience by the CD; a high CD would mean that the passengers (and the Ofanite, if he so chose) would feel no more than if they were sitting on a bench in the park, regardless of how quickly the Ofanite accelerated or how sharply he turned. An Ofanite piloting a passenger jet with 104 people on board would suffer either a -10 to the target number or a -10 to the check digit; if five of those people got off, the penalty would drop to -9.) Here are my thoughts on the subject from the last time this went around: http://heretech.mirrorscape.net/in-nomine/orexp.html (although they're not universally loved), and Ryan Roth came up with a few others that worked quite well. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 05:42:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Feline vessel - --- G N E Z D A wrote: > Well, I intended his vessel to be an unusual vessel over > a discordant one. That's actually the harder case to justify, if it's his default Vessel. > Why Eli allowed this vessel? Well, Eli does > allow some weird things to happen... But he always has good reasons for them, whether the PC is aware of them or not. > Also, the way I see it, superheroes/supervillains are > really basically the same as angels/demons, but for a > younger audience. Not necessarily angels and demons, but definitely heroes in the more mythic sense. Superhero comics are the modern equivalent of Homeric epics and tales told around the fire (says Mike, who reads way too much Joseph Campbell). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

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