in_nomine-digest Tuesday, October 1 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2792 In this digest: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Servitor of Eli IN> You should be able to tell what *I've* been doing today... Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> On Ethereal lodgings Re: IN> Servitor of Eli IN> Accumulate Re: IN> You should be able to tell what *I've* been doing today... Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption RE: IN> On Ethereal lodgings Re: IN> Accumulate IN> The Event Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption RE: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Accumulate Re: IN> The Event RE: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption RE: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> In Search Of.... IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption RE: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> The Event Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. Re: IN> Pyramid Re: IN> The Event Re: IN> The Event IN> Re: Servitor of Eli IN> Pictures ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 05:58:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption - --- Josh Moger wrote: > Same reason that neither one has been able to (forget > wanting to) duplicate > Legion's power of multiple possession- neither one is > the Demon Prince of Corruption. Which explains why Heaven hasn't arranged to duplicate Uriel's trick and make it impossible for all angels to Fall. From a setting standpoint, either option makes the game less interesting. It also closes the door to certain kinds of munchkinism; a Celestial who can't Redeem or Fall regardless of Dissonance can pretty much ignore Dissonance conditions (except for that nasty dice penalty, of course). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:17:06 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption At 05:58 AM 9/30/2002 -0700, Michael Walton wrote: > Which explains why Heaven hasn't arranged to duplicate >Uriel's trick and make it impossible for all angels to >Fall. From a setting standpoint, either option makes the >game less interesting. It also closes the door to certain >kinds of munchkinism; a Celestial who can't Redeem or Fall >regardless of Dissonance can pretty much ignore Dissonance >conditions (except for that nasty dice penalty, of course). It's also interesting to note that both of the Superiors who *could* do this (well, okay, canon being nudged aside slightly here to make room for the non-canon Beelzebub), both are now notably absent from accessible reality. ;) - -EDG ObOriginalContent (or, How To Acceptably Pad Your Post So You're Not Overquoting, Really) War Attunement: Accumulate This attunement allows an angel to temporarily boost his fighting prowess. By spending 1 Essence, the angel increases the Power of all of his attacks by 1 for the remainder of the combat; doing this takes a full combat round, during which the angel can take no other action. This can be used repeatedly (an angel could spend 7 Essence over 7 rounds to increase his Power by 7), but the bonus goes away immediately at the end of combat, and the power can only be used in a combat situation. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:49:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Servitor of Eli An interesting character concept. Three things: Anyone can look like anything in the Marches, so he could have started looking like a dog as soon as he wanted to. You should figure out what his relationship is to Blandine. She isn't exactly "Guardian of the Marches" but she's very close, so they have to have SOME kind of relationship. You also need to figure out his relationship to Beleth. Obviously antagonistic. But, if he's older than the Marches, he's older than her fall and Wording. If the Purity Crusade upset him, then the founding of the Nightmare Tower and the pollution of half the human sector of the Marches should have been at least as traumatic to him. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:28:05 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> You should be able to tell what *I've* been doing today... ...he says, typing with white fingertips. http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=etherjammer&itemid=1557#cutid1 - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:48:23 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption >It also closes the door to certain >kinds of munchkinism; a Celestial who can't Redeem or Fall >regardless of Dissonance can pretty much ignore Dissonance >conditions (except for that nasty dice penalty, of course). Tell that to a Malakite. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:35:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> On Ethereal lodgings - --- G N E Z D A wrote: > I suppose what I'm asking is, is it possible to use the > former technique of > DIY Ethereal house construction, or are songs and Will > the *only* way to affect the Marches? I don't recall a canon answer. Liber Canticorum says that creating anything living in the Marches requires the Ethereal Song of Life. Making an Ethereal building is certainly possible with the Ethereal Song of Creation, but the Songs of Creation are notoriously uncontrollable for non-Superiors (never mind that PC's generally shouldn't start out knowing any of those Songs). One possible dodge is to create Ethereal Artifacts in the desired forms via the normal enchanting process; these can then be taken into the Marches and assembled. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:40:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Servitor of Eli - --- G N E Z D A wrote: > The character (a canine form, not a feline form now) is a > *very* old > celestial. He was created, as a servant of Eli, even > before the Marches > themselves came into being. I don't have any books with me, but I believe that the Ethereal plane predates the creation of angels. The Marches are influenced by Human thought, but they were not created by it. > When the Marches first > appeared, he was the first celestial to visit them IOW, he was there before Blandine? I wouldn't allow that, but it's your campaign. YMMV. > Despite being an Ofanim, his devotion to > his Word and responsibility was as strong as that of any > Cherubim's and so > his Ethereal self began to take on a shape of its own; > that of a dog. The > loyal, steadfast guardian who stands by his master no > matter what. The problem with this is that this view of the dog not only derives from Human thought, it is peculiar to Western culture. To many Middle Eastern peoples the dog is an unclean animal, while many Asians still regard it as food. The image of the dog as loyal guardian is both fairly recent (thus flying in the face of your idea of the PC's ancientness) limited to only a few cultures. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:42:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Accumulate - --- EDG wrote: > War Attunement: Accumulate Been watching DBZ, have you? The Angel of Anime will be pleased. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:45:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> You should be able to tell what *I've* been doing today... Okaaaay... office supplies leading you toward your Fate? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:47:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > Tell that to a Malakite. The difference is that Malakim do have to pay attention to Dissonance conditions -- multiple ones, in fact. They also have a safety valve in that the Inquisition kills them if they become too Discordant. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:47:28 +0300 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> On Ethereal lodgings - --- G N E Z D A wrote: > I suppose what I'm asking is, is it possible to use the > former technique of > DIY Ethereal house construction, or are songs and Will > the *only* way to affect the Marches? DS1 "Existence in the ethereal realm is a matter of thought. The ethereal is made up of the stuff of imagination, so the power of the mind and ethereal or Celestial Forces can influence it." "Characters in the Marches have all of their normal abilities and Resources. They can even carry dream-images of their normal equipment and any Artifacts they possess with them into the Marches. They can also use Will, Dreaming skill or the Celestial Song of Dreams to create items or even settings within a Dreamscape." Both quotes from pp79 of "The Marches" It would seem to me that this means you need nothing more than a succesful Will roll to create anything you wish within the Marches. A house, a campfire, a mansion with a thousand servants. Keeping someone else from changing it should then be a Will battle. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:05:41 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Accumulate At 10:42 AM 9/30/2002 -0700, Michael Walton wrote: > Been watching DBZ, have you? The Angel of Anime will be pleased. Gah! No. Final Fantasy Tactics. ;) Just for the sheer implication that I watch that show, though: the Media Attunement: Take That! This attunement is rather powerful; it requires all of the Essence that the user has left, regardless of how much that is (although using this attunement without any Essence won't produce any effect), and deals damage equal to the Essence spent multiplied by the user's total Forces. Here's the catch: it takes (total Forces) rounds to power up, during which the user can do nothing but talk (taking another action, including movement and dodging, forfeits *all* Essence spent and stops the power in its tracks), and it can never - ever - reduce a target to the point of death. (It can bring them to unconsciousness, but no further.) Any excess damage is distributed to the surroundings of both the user and the target. The range of this attack is (total damage * 10) yards. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:38:25 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: IN> The Event First off... no, no I think I'll wait to make comments after it. I'll probably send out an e-mail to explain just where in heck this came from afterwards. This is already a bit big, just by itself, and Lord only knows how big the explanation would have to be... hoo. So, without further ado, Josh Moger Presents.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Event, which took place about three months after the Announcement (which actually started as the announcement, but grew into a capital 'A' within, oh, roughly half a second), began quietly enough. Indeed, considering what would take place that day, the participants involved were quite calm. Admittedly, She was close to throwing up, but then, so are most blushing brides-to-be. Fortunately, She had some friends to help her out. Unfortunately they (one a woman wearing a blue dress, the other a lion, eagle, and two grazing sheep) were too busy arguing about the location of the ceremony. "Quit squirming. I'll never be able to button up this dress." "I still don't see why you can't have it out here. I mean, the Halls of Worship are so..." "Human? What's wrong with that? She can have it anywhere she wants." "Yes, but I thought it was He who decided it." "You think He could have been able to change Her mind? Not in His wildest dreams." "Will you two stop talking about me as though I'm not here," pleaded the white-clad bride. Well, mostly white clad. The gown, despite the best efforts of the woman dressed in blue, refused to fit properly. Which, considering that the participants were in Heaven, meant that each involved, dresser and dressee, were entirely too nervous. "Hey, kiddo. Relax. Here, B, Let me help with that." Smoothly, a young-looking man stepped behind the bride and begin moving his hands over the back of the dress. With a soft crinkling sound, the dress began seamlessly closing up, and coincidentally forming designs of silver and gold roses. "Nice touch." "Thanks, B. That feel alright? Wait, here you go." The bride nodded, her voice obscured by the brown paper bag that the the repairer of the dress had given her to breathe into. She mumbled a thanks to both of her friends and sat down in a chair that was suddenly beneath her. The friend who had objected to her soon-to-be place of marriage padded the ground around her before curling up at her feet. "You know, I never understood the reason you feel the need to manifest all of the emotions that go with that silly form you insist on taking. Animals never get so over stimulated for no good reason from their instincts. I for instance feel absolutely no such nervousness or worry about the upcoming eve-" "HE'S COMING!" The aforementioned curled up friend suddenly leaped to all fours, and twos, and went to flight, and began running around. "What?! WHAT'S HE DOING?! Doesn't he know it's bad luck?" Suddenly realizing that each of the bride's friends were looking at his hosts, and smirking, the startled friend sat down with just a bit of wounded pride and began cleaning himself in his main host. The bride put down the brown bag in order to reach out and scratch her friend behind the ears, but was interrupted by a chuckle coming from her other favorite Friend of Man. "I hope I didn't miss all of the excitement." The young-looking man glanced over his glasses at the approaching individual dressed in a full tuxedo. "Kidding, right? These two," acknowledging the bride with a nod of his head, "are going to be creating more excitement today than we've had in the past 20,000 years. I don't remember the last time one of us was..." "I do." The woman dressed in blue shifted in her seat, lowering her head so that none of her friends could see the sudden look of pain on her face. Of course, her friends being what, but more importantly who, they are knew it was there nonetheless. The smartly dressed man walked over to her and folded his arms around her, quickly followed by the bride, the young looking man, and the individual on the ground and in the sky. "Such a strange display of emotion on a day which should be marked, objectively speaking, for the amount of happiness that it will serve to inspire." The newcomer was a middle-aged blond man who wore what was, perhaps, a smile. The members of the group hug managed to move, as one, over to the blond man, faster than even his lightning reaction speed, and absorb him into the bonding. His voice, though muffled, came through clearly for his friends to hear. "Ah, of course. The subtle difference between happiness and sadness. Didn't your Soldier come up with that apropos equation? Shared pain is lessened, but shared joy is increased?" "You could at the very least have a proper ceremony." "But unlike you, lad, I don't feel the need to trumpet one way of saying God's Truth over another. Besides, She wanted this to be something unique for us, our own vows and what not. How did she put it..." "'A petal unlike any other, a rose with no thorns of the past to adorn it,'" came the rumbling voice of the third man in the room. "That's it. Ah, I see you've deigned to wear clothing today. Who do I have to thank for that?" The first speaker, a younger man with long black hair tied back spoke up. "You won't like it." "What do you mean?" "*She* told him to." "She? Who do you- oh." The man in the middle of the room, who was attempting to get into his formal suit, looked up to see the door opening and a blond woman enter followed by an older looking man with grey hair. The dressing man directed his comment at the woman. "I Truly didn't expect to see you here today." "I have to admit, at first I thought it went against my better judgment, but someone seemed to believe it very important for me to come. And who am I to argue against destiny?" The grey haired man smiled at the last comment. He looked at the dressing groom. "I trust that you would not turn away any who wish to come to your day of matrimony?" "No, no I suppose I wouldn't. Or at least can't, without alienating my future wife, eh? She does get peculiar about that sometimes." The man broke off from his musing when he realized that a low hum that had begun softly in the background was building to a crescendo of a gust of wind. "Hope I'm not late." "Don't worry about it. I'm still trying to show the kid how to tie a bow tie." "A bow tie, commander? I never thought that would be your style." "The good groom... stretches the truth to cover days past. But his wordplay fits. As you can see, I'm going in my formal wear-" "Give or take a thousand years or so." The man with the black ponytail looked at who commented on his wardrobe and smiled ruefully. "At least it didn't take me a month of trying to find something that would even fit. That's what you get for untold millennia of nudity." The man who had arrived with the wind turned to the groom. "I've seen your bride-to-be. She's still getting ready, but we've got a tinker, a trader, a dreamer, a creator and a growler trying to help her." "How does she look?" "After all these years, you actually have to ask? She looks beautiful. She looks radiant. She looks like a setting sun over a field of roses. Now, tell me the Truth. Which is more fearful- the past twenty millennia, or this moment?" "The Truth? I don't think I'm going to answer that question." "HA! He backed down!" "Shoo. I gave him orders today that he could honorably withdraw from any conflict. It seemed like a nice way of forcing him to relax." "Ah, commander, you're too kind to him." Suddenly, a lone candle upon a table in the room flared into a bonfire releasing a wheel of flame which coalesced into a brunette woman. She wore a red gown and sparks leapt from her eyes. "Really, Gabe, do you have to be so dramatic? I mean, the day's going to have plenty of that as it is." Before the woman of flame could speak, the door opened once again (causing the future groom to curse about locks in Heaven beneath his breath) allowing another to enter. This one appeared as a tall man of Arabic origin. He bowed to the groom and spoke: "She has arrived. The ceremony awaits your presence to begin." Considering who was in attendence, it could have gone several ways. There could have been a great deal of screaming. A great deal of questioning. And a great deal of flaming swords. Instead, there was a great deal of peace and faith. As each celestial sat in their row, some by Word, some by Choir, but most by friend and love, some of the older ones remembered when last they attended a ceremony such as this, and the pain that inadvertantly resulted from it. To be sure, this would be different, and hopefully the bittersweet part of it had already passed. His two best men behind him, the groom waited near the forefront of the Hall. Silently passing 'notes' in Tongues, the three men considered the long history that had brought them to this moment. They looked over their lives. Their battles. Their fears and doubts. Not in what they served, but in themselves. And they realized that it had all been worthwhile, if for no other reason than that today would happen. Finally, after a subjective eternity of patience, the music began, held aloft by a song sung by Song, and the grey haired, battle scarred man turned towards the back of the Hall and contemplated his future bride as she walked towards him. When finally she stopped in front of him and the hundreds of relievers and ofanim who had carried the back of her dress let it gently flow to the floor, he took her veil and lifted it, exposing the face and a facet of the beauty of his bride. The vows were in Old Angelic, but translated for all of those assembled. ~Where once there was cowardice- Now I see your courage. Where once there was pity- Now I feel your awe. Where once there was fear- Now I see your wisdom. Where once I was blind- Now I see your all. ~Where once there was rage- Now I see your Truth. Where once there was pride- Now I feel your faith. Where once there was despair- Now I see your hope. Where once I was blind- Now I see your all. Yves, who had, after a bit of gentle prodding by the bride and a weary and resigned nod by the groom, agreed to preside over the ceremony, now completed it with: "And let all who witness this marriage now know- Where once there was War so too shall there be Peace. Where once there were Factions, let there be Unity. Where once there were Archangels, now shall there be Wife and Husband. You may kiss the bride... oh, I see you already knew that part was coming..." Yves chuckled as he closed his book and bowed his head to the rolling sound of the waves of laughter, cheer and applause which were near deafening even to the Archangels who had gathered to see this- The Wedding of Michael and Novalis. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:21:28 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption >It's also interesting to note that both of the Superiors who *could* do >this (well, okay, canon being nudged aside slightly here to make room for >the non-canon Beelzebub), both are now notably absent from accessible >reality. ;) Uh...correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Beelzebub the canonical Balseraph Prince of Corruption, who Uriel eventually killed and was later replaced by Legion? Or were you just referring to the non-canon-ness of The Fallen? ^^;; ~S.D. Ryukage ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." G.K. Chesterton ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:31:20 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption > >Uh...correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Beelzebub the canonical Balseraph Prince of Corruption, who Uriel eventually killed and was later replaced by Legion? > >Or were you just referring to the non-canon-ness of The Fallen? ^^;; > > ~S.D. Ryukage I think it was meant for Sirea's Beelzebub in general and The Fallen attunement in particular. But yeah, there is the canonical Beelzebub, it's just that, like a few other Superiors in In Nomine, we haven't really heard very much on the subject of Beelzebub. Or Mariel. Or Makatiel. Or Legion. Or Oannes. Or Raphael. Or Genubath. Well, I don't suppose there could be a Dead Superiors book? Josh (Hey, I'm doing what I can. I took Moe's advice. Mister Chick got an e-mail from a concerned Christian parent about In Nomine (despite the fact that the person who sent it was none of those things...well, maybe concerned about IN.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:17:07 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption > (Hey, I'm doing what I can. I took Moe's advice. Mister Chick got an > e-mail from a concerned Christian parent about In Nomine (despite the fact > that the person who sent it was none of those things...well, maybe concerned > about IN.) I don't think Moe was serious. Moe? You _really_ should have talked to Beth, and possibly Steve Jackson himself, first. I'm not trying to be stuck up here, but despite the obvious inanity of Jack Chick to all sane people, he can still cause financial and marketing problems for RPGs, and In Nomine can't defend itself as well as 3E D&D can, market-wise. As fun as it can be in movies or RPGs, it's _always_ unwise to taunt stark raving lunatics in real life. - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:20:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Accumulate - --- EDG wrote: > the Media Attunement: Take That! Heh. I won't even ask how you know what a Spirit Bomb does. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:27:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Event Har. It's about bloody time. 0:> =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 21:59:50 +0000 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: RE: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption >despite the obvious inanity of Jack Chick >to all sane people, he can still cause financial and >marketing problems for RPGs, and In Nomine can't defend >itself as well as 3E D&D can, market-wise. Er, am I the only person who thinks the correct response to Chick is to ignore him? He isn't even taken seriously by most Christians,* so what are the chances anyone else is going to pay attention to what he says about role-playing? Janet Anderson *The term I use for people like him is "counterproductive," but I've heard much ruder words used. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:28:36 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption A Djinn that cares? That's a pretty good source of dissonance right there. >She never wanted Fall. Most of the Fallen never _wanted_ to Fall. They just wandered away from The Truth Of God (tm) to where the ice was too thin and fell through. Metaphorically speaking. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:39:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > Er, am I the only person who thinks the correct response > to Chick is to ignore him? No -- but I'm used to being in the minority. };> > He isn't even taken seriously by most > Christians,* so what are > the chances anyone else is going to pay attention to what > he says about role-playing? Better than one might think, unfortunately. There are only a few fanatics out there, but there's an endless supply of uninformed and gullible people who believe that anyone who is sufficiently passionate about a cause must be right. If an extremist like Chick decides that IN is blasphemous (based on his version of Christianity), that could spell trouble for the line. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:09:14 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption > > Better than one might think, unfortunately. There are >only a few fanatics out there, but there's an endless >supply of uninformed and gullible people who believe that >anyone who is sufficiently passionate about a cause must be >right. If an extremist like Chick decides that IN is >blasphemous (based on his version of Christianity), that >could spell trouble for the line. Aye, but on the other hand, such people would also probably avoid In Nomine, due to the fact that they can't separate issues of free will, fiction, games, religion, etc. A sincerely penitent, Josh (Who is thinking that this is being taken just a wee too seriously. Or is soon to be granted a swift boot off the list as all of Steven Jackson Games is burned to the ground by enraged Chickites.) Well, I could have reacted to these posts with either a great deal of embarrasment, anxiety, or humor. Went for humor, as shame is so passe. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:37:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Search Of.... At 1:51 PM -0500 9/29/02, Brian Rogers wrote: >Thank you. > >For some reason I couldn't find it with a normal Pyramid search for In Nomine articles. Maybe it was because I was really tired. If it's one of the ones which is free to the public, you have to use the Search feature from the non-user page. (One of my IOU articles is like that -- it should appear on either member/non-member searches, but it only appears on non-member searches. Very annoying.) - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:45:01 +0800 From: "Manny Nepomuceno" Subject: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Hey, > I just thought of another point- what stopped the Host from > all becoming > Servitors of Purity? No angels being able to Fall would > ensure victory. But > they never did do it. Just something to think about aside from my > rationlization. If you go by David Edelstein's writeup of Uriel, then it's not because they were never able to Fall, but that they policed themselves so well that no angel of Purity ever managed more than two notes of dissonance. IMO the canon statement that "No angel of Purity has ever Fallen" comes from that proto-canon writeup. You can find it here: http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Uriel.htm Of course, canon is contradictory on that point. The IPG lists a former Servitor of Purity who Fell when Uriel was recalled. ;) Manny Neps http://www.geocities.com/angeloffools ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:56:16 +0800 From: "Manny Nepomuceno" Subject: RE: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Ehh. I just reread it myself. My mistake. Angels of Purity can't Fall. I do think that David Edelstein's Uriel the definitive non-canon version, though. :) ;) Manny Neps http://www.geocities.com/angeloffools > If you go by David Edelstein's writeup of Uriel, then it's not because > they were never able to Fall, but that they policed themselves so well > that no angel of Purity ever managed more than two notes of > dissonance. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:10:49 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> The Event Alright, this idea didn't completely come out of left field. Hence I should neither be the only one stoned and/or given praise to for this idea. The others are: Moe: for the almost constant thread of wary praise and respect that Novalis and Michael give one another in his write-ups. It's very wary. However, take a look at his page for his, in my opinion rather well done, version of Novalis' challenge to Michael to see what I'm really talking about. Charles Glasgow: For http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/seeds/oppattr.html if nothing else. I mean, if you take Moe's stuff as a background and then the above as a catalyst, my scenario isn't too unlikely. Sides, are they not the perfect mother and father figures for Heaven? And any kids of their's (oy. vey. gevalt.) would have the coolest aunts and uncles. Well, all except for that stuffy aunt who watches over them all the time. Aunt Dommie won't let them do anything fun. Of course, if anyone couldn't see my carefully, hah, hidden references to almost all of the AA's (couldn't squeeze Litheroy in there. Tried, but he wouldn't fit) then I'd be happy to elaborate. The actual story came out of an idea I had for a future post. Basically showing what I considered the general feeling of Heaven/Hell to be whenever I read a bit of fan fic or when I think of the game. Then I realized that my version is probably hopelessly Bright. So I seized on one idea and went for it. Thanks, Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 21:01:52 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Manny Nepomuceno wrote: > If you go by David Edelstein's writeup of Uriel, then it's not because > they were never able to Fall, but that they policed themselves so well > that no angel of Purity ever managed more than two notes of dissonance. That is not entirely true. They cannot Fall, but OTOH, none were ever allowed to get to the point where they theoreticall could have. > IMO the canon statement that "No angel of Purity has ever Fallen" comes > from that proto-canon writeup. You can find it here: > http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Uriel.htm > > Of course, canon is contradictory on that point. The IPG lists a former > Servitor of Purity who Fell when Uriel was recalled. There's been a bit of canonical sleight-of-hand to explain that -- he was so despondent that he voluntarily abandoned the Word of Purity, and thus became able to Fall. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 21:05:22 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Michael Walton wrote: > If an extremist like Chick decides that IN is > blasphemous (based on his version of Christianity), that > could spell trouble for the line. Uh, hello? There is not the slightest shadow of a doubt that Jack Chick and anyone who subscribes to any shade of his theology considers In Nomine blasphemous, considering that they believe that _all_ works of fantasy and science fiction, PERIOD, are blasphemous. Chick probably has never heard of In Nomine specifically, but I doubt he would differentiate it at all from D&D, Lord of the Rings, the Chronicles of Narnia, or Harry Potter, which he also says are works of Satan. As for him spelling trouble for the line -- the fruitcake fundie fringe is never going to buy IN books anyway. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:10:35 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption David's back! Course, I admit to being so blissfully ignorant that I could have missed an occasional post, but I haven't seen Mr. Edelstein for some time. Welcome back. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:46:23 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. At 12:09 AM -0400 9/28/02, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 2:52 PM -0700 9/27/02, Michael Walton wrote: > >--- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > > > Setting up the Garden is one thing (selecting the >>location, helping to bring in the plants and animals, >>etc.). > >Novalis, Angel of Flowers, did a lot of that, in canon. But >they can help! (Muwhahahaha!) Or you can kick the canon. > Huh. When did the Eden experiment take place, relative to people actually coming to North/South America, or Australlia (keeping in mind, Anthropologists keep finding fossils and other human remains that push the time when people first got to Australlia back further and further)? Not having a book at hand (who is the Demon of Losing stuff when you move? Or is it an Angel? Serving Theft or the Wind?) to see if that is covered in the time line of canon. Oh, yeah. I'm back. Long story, that amounts to my life turning into a blues song. But thats all off topic (though I am wondering which superior has the angel of the Blues...). -Daiv Technical Writer in service to Coffee, currently bloody expensive lancing (like free lancing, only more money). - -- wireless network 802.11 transparent bamboo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:48:18 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Pyramid At 4:30 PM +0930 9/26/02, G N E Z D A wrote: >Just wondering, who here is subscribed to Pyramid magazine? > Not at the moment, as lack of money has caused me to let it lapse. -Daiv Tech Writer in service to Coffee - -- wireless network 802.11 transparent bamboo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 01:37:15 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> The Event > Sides, are they not the perfect mother and father figures for Heaven? And No. - -- Casca Well, you seemed to be soliciting opinions..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 02:13:01 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> The Event >> Sides, are they not the perfect mother and father figures for Heaven? And > >No. > >-- Casca Urk. Bit of a brick wall there. When my mind regenerates from my paper on Gen. 22, I'll defend the offending post. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:04:46 +0930 From: "G N E Z D A" Subject: IN> Re: Servitor of Eli Age-wise, I'll probably say he became the guardian when the first human-inspired ethereal spirit appeared, rather than when the Marches first appeared. Perhaps he was even created by the Symphony for this very purpose (appearing at the exact same instant as the first human-created spirit appeared, with all the knowledge he'd need to know to begin with)? As far as Beleth goes, he does hate what she's done (and also the angels for forcing the ethereals to run into Beleth's arms). However, while he may hate the *actions* of the terror-aligned ethereals, he truly loves *all* ethereals as much as any other celestial loves God. They are all (in one sense) his children (or, more accurately, his flock) whether they side with God, Hell, or neither. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 2/08/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 03:22:58 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: IN> Pictures So, there I was, at the San Francisco Folsom Street fair, camera in hand, and I saw this man, bare chested with black wings and blue eyes, and my immediate thought was "oh my god, a Malakite." So, I asked permission, and took his picture. Later, I found another man, also winged, but for some reason he game me more of a Lilim vibe (though, perhaps a Bright Lilim, as he was working for a local Animal shelter charity (animals do not have Needs, for the purposes of Lilim resonance, do they...?). This link should take you to the pictures. Note, I am not a particularly good photographer. Just learning. Still, the subjects being what they are... Well, enjoy. http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/daivbear/lst?.dir=/Game+Pictures&.src=ph&.view= -Daiv Tech writer in service to coffee (currently renegade). - -- wireless network 802.11 transparent bamboo ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2792 ********************************