in_nomine-digest Wednesday, October 2 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2793 In this digest: IN> Here Chick, Chick, Chick... Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. Re: IN> Re: Servitor of Eli Re: IN> Pictures Re: IN> Pictures Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Accumulate Re: IN> The Event Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Pyramid RE: IN> Adventure Ideas II. Re: IN> Accumulate Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. RE: IN> Adventure Ideas II. Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. RE: IN> Adventure Ideas II. IN> Blatantly silly artifact: DDR Re: IN> New to list and a status update Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. Re: IN> Re: Servitor of Eli Re: IN> New to list and a status update Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. Re: IN> On Ethereal lodgings Re: IN> Blatantly silly artifact: DDR RE: IN> New to list and a status update Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. IN> Paradoxes Re: IN> Paradoxes Re: IN> The Event Re: IN> The Event Re: IN> The Event Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. Re: IN> Paradoxes IN> Need help in creating my character! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:35:10 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Here Chick, Chick, Chick... > and In Nomine can't defend > itself as well as 3E D&D can, market-wise. To paraphrase the Macintosh User's Anthem, "I'll play IN until the last page falls out of the Perfect binding." And why do they call it "Perfect binding" when it falls appart so easily? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > "There are only a few fanatics out there, but there's an endless > supply of uninformed and gullible people who believe that > anyone who is sufficiently passionate about a cause must be right." > > -Michael Walton I think you coined one there. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 05:46:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption - --- David Edelstein wrote: > There is not the slightest shadow of a doubt > that Jack Chick > and anyone who subscribes to any shade of his theology > considers In Nomine blasphemous So true. > As for him spelling trouble for the line -- the fruitcake > fundie fringe is never going to buy IN books anyway. For which I am grateful. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 05:47:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. - --- Daiv wrote: > I am > wondering which superior has the angel of the Blues... Falls under the Angel of Soul, Mercurian of Creation. I'm still working on the write-up. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 05:49:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Servitor of Eli - --- G N E Z D A wrote: > Age-wise, I'll probably say he became the guardian when > the first > human-inspired ethereal spirit appeared, rather than when > the Marches first appeared. That makes a lot more sense. > However, while he may hate > the *actions* of the terror-aligned ethereals, he truly > loves *all* > ethereals as much as any other celestial loves God. Which is a very angelic mindset. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 05:52:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Pictures Eh, I dunno. That "Lilim" looks more like a Mercurian to me. Mercurian of Jordi would explain the animal shelter thing, anyway. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 21:40:35 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Pictures > So, there I was, at the San Francisco Folsom Street fair, > camera in hand, and I saw this man, bare chested with black wings and > blue eyes, and my immediate thought was "oh my god, a Malakite." *looks at picture* *looks again* *reminds self that self is a respectable middle-aged married woman* Yup, that's a Malakite all right. >Later, I found another man, > also winged, but for some reason he game me more of a Lilim vibe I think this one is an Elohite but I'm not sure why. Janet Anderson - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 07:52:17 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption > Ehh. > > I just reread it myself. My mistake. Angels of Purity can't Fall. > > I do think that David Edelstein's Uriel the definitive non-canon > version, though. :) > As do I, which is why I decided my Beelzebub could make a small few of his Servitors Redemptionproof ^_^ Although... that brings up another odd idea. What if Uriel went crackers and got recalled to the Higher Heavens because of the strain of having his Word in all of his angels? In other words, because his angels could not Fall, all the strain of that not being able to happen grated on his Malakite soul, driving him a little out of control? --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:03:21 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Josh Moger writes: >> >>Uh...correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Beelzebub the canonical Balseraph > Prince of Corruption, who Uriel eventually killed and was later replaced by > Legion? >> >>Or were you just referring to the non-canon-ness of The Fallen? ^^;; >> >> ~S.D. Ryukage > > I think it was meant for Sirea's Beelzebub in general and The Fallen > attunement in particular. But yeah, there is the canonical Beelzebub, it's > just that, like a few other Superiors in In Nomine, we haven't really heard > very much on the subject of Beelzebub. > Or Mariel. A Djinn I think... > Or Makatiel. Habbalite. > Or Legion. Shedite. > Or Oannes. Kyriotate (the first one?) > Or Raphael. Elohite (natch) > Or Genubath. Well, I loved David's Shedite writeup version, but was dissapointed when I saw that GURPS IN listed him as a Calabite, which I assume is now canon. And after I made my Kyriotate Genubath too :/ > > > Well, I don't suppose there could be a Dead Superiors book? > Isn't like Superiors 11 ans 12 supposed to be Dead Superiors? And isn't Beelzebub a Djinn? --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:16:15 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Accumulate > --- EDG wrote: >> the Media Attunement: Take That! > > Heh. I won't even ask how you know what a Spirit Bomb does. > Hmm... Spirit Bomb: Secret Purity Attunement. No one ever said Uriel liked to -play- Pure. Oh sure, his Word said it and all, but why shouldn't he use his Word to do some of the most violent things imaginable? He was the first -Malakite- people! Anyways, before his final duel with Beelzebub, Uriel decided to come up with a new attunement he would test first, and then maybe distribute to his loyal Servitors. It would take the Essence of the Word of Purity, and build it up into a gigantic ball of light, drawing upon the purity and innocence of the earth and it's peoples hearts. Sadly, the thing was kinked as all Hell, and it took blasted forever to get the thing charged up properly, but at least it would work. And boy, did it ever work. Beelzebub, weakened and bloody upon the floor of the Coliseum, could only watch with horror as the AA of Purity rose his hands above his head, and called down the Purity of Heaven, Earth, and his Word, and launched a large ball of pretty white light that made the Prince of Corruption say a few choice words of worry before it obliterated him. Noddding his head in approval, Uriel went back home feeling rather smug with himself. Spirit Bomb Only Angels of Purity, and even then those who have -never- had a note od dissonance, may get and use this attunement. They may only use it for combat, and it takes 30 turns to charge up! (although, in a cinematic/anime world, "5 minutes" can often equate to "6 months", so it's really not as bad as you think...). At the end of this time, the angel will spend all of his Essence, throwing the celestial nuke at his foe, who must be evil. The target will take (Essence spent x angels Celestial Forces x 100) in Body, Mind, and Soul hits, as the power of Purity rips the demon apart. (As a side note, yes, that usually averages to around 1500 points of damage. No, this wasn't supposed to be serious, or for the love of God, canon in any sense. Thank you :D ) --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:17:11 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> The Event Aw... that was sweet ^_^ I can't wait to see the children :D --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:21:05 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption BC Petery writes: > A Djinn that cares? That's a pretty good source of dissonance right there. She cares more than most Cherub's do :/ > >>She never wanted to Fall. > > Most of the Fallen never _wanted_ to Fall. They just wandered away from The > Truth Of God (tm) to where the ice was too thin and fell through. > Metaphorically speaking. > Espira was a special case. All of her dissonance was from her attuned being slaughtered, and from her trying to defend them. She wasn't going to Fall, but a bad string of Infernal Interventions and just plain -bad luck- pulled her down against her will. She didn't wander away from the Truth of God, Lucifer just decided to yank this one little angel down, selfless and kind or not. She was Pushed you could say. --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:27:17 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption David Edelstein writes: > Michael Walton wrote: >> If an extremist like Chick decides that IN is >> blasphemous (based on his version of Christianity), that >> could spell trouble for the line. > > > Uh, hello? There is not the slightest shadow of a doubt that Jack Chick > and anyone who subscribes to any shade of his theology considers In Nomine > blasphemous, considering that they believe that _all_ works of fantasy and > science fiction, PERIOD, are blasphemous. Chick probably has never heard > of In Nomine specifically, but I doubt he would differentiate it at all > from D&D, Lord of the Rings, the Chronicles of Narnia, or Harry Potter, > which he also says are works of Satan. > > As for him spelling trouble for the line -- the fruitcake fundie fringe is > never going to buy IN books anyway. > > -David > Man, I'm sorry I ever theorized on the reaction of Chick to IN :/ while I doubt he could ever do anything to hurt the line at all (no one takes him seriously I hope, outside of his few followers) it still probably wouldn't be nice to have him ranting on this. --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:33:09 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Pyramid I -plan- to be as soon as I can get a money order and such... Not having a car bites the dust, especially when your parents can't drive you anywhere :/ --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:12:28 +0300 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Adventure Ideas II. - --- Daiv wrote: > I am wondering which superior has the angel of the Blues... - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Walton [mailto:thunderdog_sa@yahoo.com] Falls under the Angel of Soul, Mercurian of Creation. I'm still working on the write-up. ===== Gotta disagree. The Blues has to have been a former Djinn. Nobody knows The Blues like a Djinn. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:27:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Accumulate - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > Spirit Bomb: Secret Purity Attunement. Gllkkkk! Sirea! Don't do that! Overkill can be Dissonant! OTOH, this version could support your desired Word; it does take an eternity to charge up... 0:;:> =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 11:27:44 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. > Falls under the Angel of Soul, Mercurian of Creation. > I'm still working on the write-up. > > ===== > > Gotta disagree. The Blues has to have been a former Djinn. Nobody knows > The Blues like a Djinn. I agree to that also :D makes me wonder what other angels and demons possess which music-genre Words. Rock and Roll goes to a Calabite of Hardcore... Classical to a Seraph of Creation... Pop to a Impudite of the Media... Braindance to a Ofanite or Elohite... Bad Techno to a Demon of Dark Humor or Hardcore. That's all I can think of :D but yeah, Jazz just -has- to go to a former Djinn. Maybe they could work under or above the Angel of Soul. And all Music Angels, of course, work under Israfel. --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:30:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> Adventure Ideas II. - --- "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" wrote: > Gotta disagree. The Blues has to have been a former > Djinn. Nobody knows The Blues like a Djinn. [nods] And it fits the saying, which I've quoted before; "Those who kept the faith sing Gospel, those who lost the faith sing the Blues." However, I was thinking of Blues in the broader sense, as in R & B. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:32:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > Jazz just -has- to go to a > former Djinn. Nonono. Jazz and the Blues are two very different things. Jazz would definitely be an angelic Word. The Blues fits a Djinn of the Media, though. > all Music Angels, of course, work under Israfel. Ah, but the Angel of Soul's Word isn't centered on music. You'll have to wait for the write-up to see how that works, though. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 11:52:54 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. >> Jazz just -has- to go to a >> former Djinn. > > Nonono. Jazz and the Blues are two very different > things. Jazz would definitely be an angelic Word. The > Blues fits a Djinn of the Media, though. True, very true. I had not thought about that. But I wouldn't give the Blues to the Media, the greasy hairball. Maybe Dark Humor or the Game... (as odd as that sounds). > >> all Music Angels, of course, work under Israfel. > > Ah, but the Angel of Soul's Word isn't centered on music. > You'll have to wait for the write-up to see how that > works, though. > I was going to ask that. Is it Soul as in music, or Soul in a broader sense? --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:53:58 +0300 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Adventure Ideas II. Nonono. Jazz and the Blues are two very different things. Jazz would definitely be an angelic Word. The Blues fits a Djinn of the Media, though. > all Music Angels, of course, work under Israfel. ** ** ** They better be ready for word friction. I could see Jazz drawing a lotta Imps. Smooth music, smooth crowds, smooth lines, smooth play'ahs... Definitely Imp music. Or is this the forbidden music thread? I don't have the FAQ here.... DS1 (with a tagline just this once) When Heaven's in the music, Hell is in control The angels got the voices, but the devils got the rock and roll. "Look What I Did to My Id" from Richard O'Brian's "Shock Treatment" (And I bet ya'll didn't even know there was a sequal to "The Rocky Horror Picture Show") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:18:51 -0400 From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: IN> Blatantly silly artifact: DDR I've been watching Evangelion recently, it connected with something I saw at Otakon, and then it got smashed into In Nomine. Not only is it an artifact, but it could almost be considered a (very bad) addition to the Michael's Challenges! Though not really. If somebody with the books at hand wants to work up the point cost for this, go ahead. I also don't think that anyone else on this list has written up something similar to this, but I could easily be mistaken. Artifact Name: DDR Set This artifact looks suspiciously like a couple of large heating pads with arrows and shapes on it, plugged into a box with a switch, which is then plugged into a screen. When someone flips the switch on the box, a mess of arrows and shapes corresponding to the ones on the pads scroll up to the top of the screen. If the proper item is stepped on at the right time (requiring an agility/acrobatics/dancing/video game playing roll), a mini-congratualtory message appears and the shapes continue to scroll up the screen. There are mutliple levels of difficulty, and those more difficult levels have the shapes scroll more quickly. However, when others view this or are within 3 times the user's Corporeal Forces, they must make a Will roll to prevent themselves from making the same foot motions that the individual on the pad is making. The sole exception is the person on the other pad, who has their own separate series of arrows and shapes scrolling up the screen. If both players make correct moves, then two Will rolls are required. Furthermore, every time an individual on the pad makes consecutive correct moves, the Will roll others have to prevent themselves from shadowing the foot motions is at a penatly equal to the number of consecutive correct moves up to the player's corporeal forces. This artifact is often attributed to Kobal or Vapula, though it's proven popular with some angels. In fact, one angel of creation made one and it was stored in the Groves, ostenably to teach "acrobatic techniques." It turned out that it inspired the competitive spirit in Michael, and he quickly became an expert at it, willing to take on all challengers. Unfortunately for him, Novalis accepted, and Heaven ground to a halt for 3 days with all of Heaven's inhabitants making random foot movements. Michael lost to Novalis' superior dancing skills, and Dominic promptly forbid a rematch. This is a somewhat sore spot for Michael, as he a) lost; and b) somebody made tapes of this match and they've gone into circulation, some even reaching Hell. S. Flanigan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:36:13 -0500 From: Joe Reimers Subject: Re: IN> New to list and a status update Hey there, Again, I deeply appreciate all the insight and hints you've all given me. The adventure is now officially underway, with the Lilim (so far) successfully keeping her identity secret and hanging out with the Cherub of Creation to boot. Now I just have to divert the plot from the Tokamak reactor to the real reason I brought them down... ;) The one good thing, I think, is that I've given them 2 weeks before the concert, and have implemented several of the side plots already. I'm also curious to see what my Ofanite of Lightning (who has strong engineering and mechanical skills) does with my Cherub's 1965 VW microbus... Anyway, that's it on the running commentary. I feel good about where we've started and have a better idea of not only where I'm going with it, but how to get everybody there. As an aside, they've only met a few of the local celestials. OOC, my players have indicated a strong preference for a low celestial-to-human ratio. Any thoughts on which celestials, if any, can be dispensed with? I've already gotten rid of one of Jean's, and I'm seriously considering making Dominic's and Michael's celestials Soldiers instead, and reducing Dominic's by 1. Obviously, I can't get rid of any of the Seneschals, and Lauren, Wrench, Zara, Hugo, Tomas, Druiel, Vilson and Furfur have to remain due to storyline considerations (Vilson is currently the main "bad guy", as their mission at the moment is the Tokamak.) Looking at the list, it seems like an awful lot still. The only ones they know or suspect to be celestial are Lauren, Drew, Vilson, Tomas and Darius. They've also met Hugo, but I *might* be able to knock him down to a 6-Force Soldier. Maybe. Help? J > >My question is, how do I keep the Lilim alive longer than 45 seconds? Or > >are there any other suggestions for playing a "bad boy/girl rocker"? My > >only longshot thought would be to show signs of the possibility of > >Redemption, but man.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 00:08:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. At 8:46 PM -0700 9/30/02, Daiv wrote: > Huh. When did the Eden experiment take place, relative to The GMG says.... Oh, drat. That's downstairs. I dunno. Maybe someone else will know. >and further)? Not having a book at hand (who is the Demon of Losing >stuff when you move? Or is it an Angel? Serving Theft or the Wind?) >to see if that is covered in the time line of canon. Heh... > Oh, yeah. I'm back. Long story, that amounts to my life >turning into a blues song. But thats all off topic (though I am >wondering which superior has the angel of the Blues...). Well, considering how many bounces I was getting, I dunno if you're subscribed. I think I tried to hook you up to the digest... - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:29:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Servitor of Eli At 6:04 PM +0930 10/1/02, G N E Z D A wrote: >Age-wise, I'll probably say he became the guardian when the first >human-inspired ethereal spirit appeared, rather than when the Marches first >appeared. Perhaps he was even created by the Symphony for this very purpose >(appearing at the exact same instant as the first human-created spirit >appeared, with all the knowledge he'd need to know to begin with)? Is this a character you're working on to _play_, or to write about? If the former, he seems awfully high-powered; you'll have to figure out how he got knocked down to PC-level. (Unless your GM is doing a very high powered game, of course.) - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:36:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New to list and a status update At 1:36 PM -0500 10/1/02, Joe Reimers wrote: >As an aside, they've only met a few of the local celestials. OOC, my >players have indicated a strong preference for a low celestial-to-human >ratio. Any thoughts on which celestials, if any, can be dispensed >with? Hm. You're probably on the right track, though really, Vilson could be a Soldier too, IIRC. Don't forget that you could downgrade the power of a celestial to a reliever or imp/gremlin -- they'd still be celestial, but at least they'd be "minor" instead of "major." >I've already gotten rid of one of Jean's, and I'm seriously >considering making Dominic's and Michael's celestials Soldiers instead, and >reducing Dominic's by 1. One Soldier instead of two angels? Seems reasonable. Or you could give him two people, one a mundane aware of the War and one a Soldier? > Obviously, I can't get rid of any of the >Seneschals, and Lauren, Wrench, Zara, Hugo, Tomas, Druiel, Vilson and >Furfur have to remain due to storyline considerations (Vilson is currently >the main "bad guy", as their mission at the moment is the >Tokamak.) Looking at the list, it seems like an awful lot still. Think of it this way -- about 10 years ago, there were 54,000 students at UTx, and another 11,000 faculty/staff. That's ON CAMPUS ALONE. You just need to emphasize that the celestials in Austin all tend to know each other, and hang out together (to keep an eye on what the Other Side is doing, thanks to the Truce, a lot of them...) frequently, instead of running off and dealing only with humans all the time. Have you looked at the GMG and its "proportion of celestials to humans" section? It might give you some ideas for what's reasonable. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:40:41 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. > > Huh. When did the Eden experiment take place, relative to Around 23,000 BCE. I think the Fall was listed as 22,625 BCE Or something oddly specific like that. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:53:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> On Ethereal lodgings At 11:56 AM +0930 9/30/02, G N E Z D A wrote: >Or would it be simply a matter of using one of the songs, or pure Will? (I >suppose, if I did use Will, I could still create all those other effects >too) You can use Will to craft a dreamscape lodging -- or to make the trees, the axe, etc. It will not be as permanent as a Domain or a micro-Domain, mind. This is in the EPG... If you're in a Domain, the rules may well be different. Toddler tantrumming. Further typing not working. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:08:54 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Blatantly silly artifact: DDR >Unfortunately for him, Novalis accepted, and Heaven ground to a halt for 3 >days with all of Heaven's inhabitants making random foot movements. >Michael lost to Novalis' superior dancing skills, and Dominic promptly >forbid a rematch. This is a somewhat sore spot for Michael, as he a) >lost; and b) somebody made tapes of this match and they've gone into >circulation, some even reaching Hell. > >S. Flanigan I momentarily started to say "Michael wouldn't have lost," until I remembered that one of Novalis' Rites is dancing, so she probably has more of a Word-connection, and it's not like he wins every metaphorical battle (Baal must win every now and then when he tries to assassinate somebody War is protecting, or Hell wouldn't have gotten very far), so yeah, I vote for Novalis to win that one. Though I would have had another Superior shielding the rest of Heaven from the effect, just to keep work going... I'm picturing the last couple of rounds. Superiors breakdancing to "Flight of the Bumblebee," perhaps? *noteblur* *footblur* William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:18:22 +0100 From: "Nick Ashton" Subject: RE: IN> New to list and a status update Joe Reimers sed: Now I just have to divert the plot from the Tokamak > reactor to the real reason I brought them down... ;) Joe, I'm about a few months behind you on a similar venture (first time INers, kicking off with the Rev. Cycle), although my group is even more likely to get tied up at UT (including as it does a Kyrio of Yves (eep) and a Ofanite of Jean).. what fun & games have you gotten them into at the tokomak? (I was thinking of throwing in AA Beth's "Socks and Violence" seed for a laugh and to get them warmed up.. hehe) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:57:39 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. At 12:08 AM 10/1/2002 -0400, you wrote: >At 8:46 PM -0700 9/30/02, Daiv wrote: > > > Huh. When did the Eden experiment take place, relative to > >The GMG says.... Oh, drat. That's downstairs. I dunno. Maybe someone >else will know. Sometime between 23,000 BC (when angels are banned from the corporeal realm) and 22, 625 BC (the Fall). The GMG is not specific on this point. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:28:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Shih Subject: IN> Paradoxes How do Seraphs deal with staements of that are neither true nor false? (In terms of both dissonance and resonance.) The classic example is Epimenides's Cretan paradox, in which Epimenides the Cretan says, "All Cretans are liars." Stripped of the cute backstory, the paradox boils down to: "This statement is false." A Boolean valued truth system obviously breaks down for statements like the above. Does the Symphony use a constuctivist logic then? (In which two "not"s do not cancel each other out.) Are Truth, Not Truth, and Not Not Truth three different categories? If so, how many different categories are there? How would Not Not Truth be perceived on a resonance roll? Would a Seraph get dissonance for speaking a Not Not Truth? I can conceive of internally consistent systems wherein the number of possible truth-values of a statement is countably infinite. If anyone is aware of a schema that posits an uncountable infinite number of possible truth-values, please let me know. Jennifer __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 21:44:36 -0400 From: Amanda Kilgore Subject: Re: IN> Paradoxes > The classic example is Epimenides's Cretan paradox, in > which Epimenides the Cretan says, "All Cretans are > liars." Stripped of the cute backstory, the paradox > boils down to: "This statement is false." As far as a Seraph is concerned, there is only Truth and Not Truth. For someone else, yes, it would be a paradox. For a Seraph (who didn't botch the Resonance roll like I usually do), it would simply be that Epimenides says "All Cretans are liars," and the Symphony rings out "False." All else is irrelevant, and the Seraph would leave piddly little details* like wordplay and paradoxes to the nearest Elohite. * piddly little details in the Seraph's opinion, at least. But since they -are- the Most Holy, closest to God, etc. etc. etc., they don't care about other opinions. (So sayeth my inner Seraph, while dodging blows to the head from my inner Malakite.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:03:31 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> The Event > Urk. Bit of a brick wall there. When my mind regenerates from my paper on > Gen. 22, I'll defend the offending post. You don't need to defend it, and the post itself doesn't offend me. Your style of writing shows promise, in fact, and should be developed with further practice -- something I wish to encourage. Technically and stylistically, I found your post quite acceptable. It's the premise that bugs me. Don't take that personally; I am one of the rare In Nomine conservatives who, for example, think that Lilim are no cooler than any other Band. The Michael-Novalis lovefest is another list-ism that I don't agree with. It doesn't mean you're wrong. It simply seemed you were soliciting opinions, and I, in my status as curmudgeon, offered mine. If you like, I can give you a critical breakdown what I liked and what I think needs improvement, but that's something to be handled over private mail. - -- Casca "Undead, like the senior citizens of the more traditional democracies, represent a disproportionate segment of the electorate. However, their political leanings are quite different, as the short term is essentially meaningless to one who expects to live for over 1,000 years." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:45:15 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> The Event >I am one of the > rare In Nomine conservatives who, for example, think that Lilim are no > cooler than any other Band. The Michael-Novalis lovefest is another list-ism > that I don't agree with. > Oh, good, I thought I was the only one. Although I admit that if I had to play a demon (which I'd rather not, except as NPC opponents to angels), I would choose a Lilim as the least revolting. And my reasons are probably different from the reasons people think Lilim are "cool." Janet Anderson - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:06:51 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> The Event Janet Anderson wrote: >>I am one of the >>rare In Nomine conservatives who, for example, think that Lilim are no >>cooler than any other Band. The Michael-Novalis lovefest is another list-ism >>that I don't agree with. > >> > >Oh, good, I thought I was the only one. > Are you kidding? I've been a Lilim-bashing curmudgeon WAY longer than Casca has! ;) > Although I admit that if I had to play a demon (which I'd rather not, except as NPC opponents to angels), I would choose a Lilim as the least revolting. And my reasons are probably different from the reasons people think Lilim are "cool." > Impudites can be fairly non-revolting. I even played an Impudite who was in his own way a pretty sympathetic character. Certainly less revolting than a lot of humans, anyway. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:45:56 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. From: "Michael Walton" > > > > Jazz just -has- to go to a > > former Djinn. > > Nonono. Jazz and the Blues are two very different > things. Jazz would definitely be an angelic Word. The > Blues fits a Djinn of the Media, though. The Angel of Jazz would be one of Eli's lot. The Demon of Smooth Jazz has got to be an Impudite of the Media, though. As for Blues? Gotta be a Djinn of Fate. Too many of the greats died young and under tragic circumstances for me to see it any other way. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:48:42 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Paradoxes >How do Seraphs deal with staements of that are neither >true nor false? (In terms of both dissonance and >resonance.) > >The classic example is Epimenides's Cretan paradox, in >which Epimenides the Cretan says, "All Cretans are >liars." Stripped of the cute backstory, the paradox >boils down to: "This statement is false." Subjectivity to the rescue, I'm afraid. ;^) Situation: Joe, in order to make a sarcastic point, tells Seraphiel the resonating Seraph, "This statement is false." Resonance successful! Result: CD 1: Seraphiel knows that Joe doesn't think that he's lying. CD 2: The above (at least, he doesn't think it's particularly false). CD 3: The above, and Seraphiel knows that Joe is trying to make a point. Sarcastically. CD 4: The above, and Seraphiel knows what logical construction Joe thinks he is trying to pull. CD 5: The above, and Seraphiel knows whether or not Joe really knows anything about self-referential statements and their role in logic. CD 6: The above, and the Symphony kindly provides a moment's clarification about the actual applicable logical rules in the sysem Joe's using (limited to their application to this situation, and the bounds of Joe's education in logic). If you tried to be more specific and make Joe say it technically, you'd end up with the impossibility of representing "this statement" in symbolic logic. I'd say that the Symphony is pretty Boolean: there is Right and there is Wrong, there is Truth and there is Falsehood. As for uncountably infinite sets of truth values, that's the realm of fuzzy logic. In fuzzy logic, a set has elements, and each element has a degree of membership in the set, between 0 and 1 (inclusive of 1). This if you have the fuzzy set S = {a}, where a has a 33% membership in the set, and Joe says "a is a member of the fuzzy set S," the result would be: CD 1: Seraphiel knows that Joe doesn't think he is lying. CD 2: The above (and that Joe considers the statement, however, inexact). CD 3: The above, and why Joe said that in that way. (to save time explaining?) CD 4: The above, and Seraphiel knows about the partial membership as far as Joe understands the concepts of fuzzy logic. CD 5: The above, and Seraphiel knows whether Joe really does understand the concepts. CD 6: The above, and the Symphony provides Seraphiel with the construction of the fuzzy set S, complete with any necessary terms defined correctly (as long as Joe has at least heard of them). Thus, once Seraphiel understood the concept, he might well consider Joe's statement to have been 33% True. Though, as a particularly intolerant angel of Judgment, this knowledge would probably give him a mean headache. >Jennifer You know, the Angel of Reductio ad Absurdum as a Seraph in service to the (canonical) Angel of Logic makes an interesting notion to me. William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 22:56:26 -0600 From: Brian Westcott Subject: IN> Need help in creating my character! I went ahead and got a copy of the second edition of the In Nomine Core Rules today. Now all I need is help from anyone on the list in designing my C.O.B.R.A. Commander character. (Based on myself, of course.) C.O.B.R.A. Commander will be an Ethereal Offspring. This means he'll have 6 Forces, the Dreaming skill, plus he'll have the Ethereal Connection. Both Blandine and Beleth have been paying special attention to my character, so they decide to give him the Dream Walking attunement as well as the Celestial Connection. I also want to use these Songs for my character: Dreams: Corporeal, Entropy: Ethereal, Form: all three categories, Light: all three categories, Motion: all three categories, Projection: all three categories, Shields: all three categories. Let the real fun begin! Brian Westcott Meridian, Idaho brian@brianrich.net http://www.brianrich.net/cobra.html ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2793 ********************************