in_nomine-digest Wednesday, October 2 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2796 In this digest: IN> Malakim, Free Will, etc. (RE: Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption) Re: IN> Archangel of Fear. Re: IN> Comes the Night, Comes the Terrible Dawn Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Archangel of Fear. RE: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption IN> Re: He's gone bad. Re: IN> Comes the Night, Comes the Terrible Dawn Re: IN> Free Will, Malakim, and One Lone Demon Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day Re: IN> Comes the Night, Comes the Terrible Dawn Re: IN> Archangel of Fear. Re: IN> Free Will, Malakim, and One Lone Demon Re: IN> Re: He's gone bad. Re: IN> Archangel of Fear. RE: IN> Worlds One and Two (RE: The Event) IN> Re: Archangel of Fear RE: IN> Worlds One and Two (RE: The Event) RE: IN> Archangel of Fear. RE: IN> Worlds One and Two (RE: The Event) RE: IN> Comes the Night, Comes the Terrible Dawn IN> Adventure Ideas II. IN> The Event IN> One hand on the phone, the other on my sword Re: IN> One hand on the phone, the other on my sword IN> Hypocrisy (was Re: IN> Espira, Demon of Redemption) IN> Lucifer's motives (was IN> Espira, Demon of Redemption) Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit Getting Pushed (Was: Re: IN> Free Will, etc.) Re: IN> Comes the Night, Comes the Terrible Dawn Re: IN> Accumulate ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:46:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Malakim, Free Will, etc. (RE: Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption) At 9:24 PM +0300 10/2/02, Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW) wrote: >Actually, it either makes my statement true, or Malakim are less than other >angels and in fact less than all other creatures in Heaven and Earth because >they have no free will. Though couched in terms humorous, the demonic jibe of "Can't Fall off the floor, blackwing!" does incorporate that concept to some degree -- at the least, it implies that Malakim are no better than, say, Habbalah. If one does pick this route, though, I'm not sure they have NO free will. They have perfect free will -- in a narrower range. They cannot choose to turn away from God entirely; they can choose how they serve. The bit that got into GURPS In Nomine, the earrings based on Exodus 21:2-6, would be highly symbolic here. They are God's slaves, for ever and aye. Some were created to be that, some chose it, but they have renounced _that_ choice. Theoretically, you could get a Malakite so insane as to be a psychopath, without morals. I imagine that anyone like that would get instantiations of David and Laurence hunting it down like a rabid dog, to put it out of its misery, as well as every other member of the Choir who was in the area. That would be the sort of thing that gets you long-distance calls in the middle of the night, Virtue to Virtue, no matter the Word-hostilities, just to say, "He's gone bad," in that tone of voice that would send the blackwings into tearful fury. News would spread, rapidly. Why? Because they will not suffer evil to live, and one of their own become insane enough to serve Hell's purposes -- wittingly or no -- is pretty darn evil, and a personal evil on top of it all. It's not just any old ex-angel bar-b-queing babies -- it's someone who should stand at your back, closer than lover or family. It's someone who should fight the very thing he is doing. It's a cancer among healthy cells. Unless you want to crank the Darkness up really high, of course, and possibly flip the setting to Backwards. I mean, if angels are nasty anyway, and Malakim "go bad" often enough that it's not a surprise... Sort of like Terminator only with extra vessels and a hang-time for however long it takes them to get out of Limbo and back to slaughtering people again. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:42:37 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Archangel of Fear. On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 04:38 PM, sirea@softhome.net wrote: > >> Does anyone have any ideas for nifty attunements the Archangel of Fear >> could've granted? > > Well... there is the Tattered version of Beleth, and I'm going to > write up (or someone else, if they wish to) her as the Archangel of > Awe, changed from Fear in my INVerse world, if your willing to wait > and see a modified version of her. But Tattered is the best and > closest source at hand. Why, thank you.... Though I'm not sure her Tattered attunements work as well for a non-Tattered world. But what the heck. I like Spider-Bel. Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:42:58 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Comes the Night, Comes the Terrible Dawn >(Author's note. God help me, I'm clearly going to Hell. Which is >apropos for this mailing list. Anyway, I enjoyed Josh's piece, so this >shouldn't be taken as anything other than what it is.) > . .. ... .... ..... ...... ....... ........ Speechless, Josh (Actually, I feel kinda honored to be able to write something that helped to spawn this post. Wow. This one's getting kept. Good work.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:47:10 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Elizabeth McCoy writes: > At 4:31 PM -0400 9/30/02, Josh Moger wrote: > >>Well, I don't suppose there could be a Dead Superiors book? > > Eventually? Who knows. Soon? > > Only if the other Superiors books fly off the shelves fast enough > that something has to be put up to replace it ASAP... > Hmm... You know, it's at times like this that I wish I had the Head of a PIN attunement :/ human has 5 Essence... Soldier has 6... that's $600 a week roughly... Aw spoot. No fair *laughs* --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:49:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Archangel of Fear. - --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > Does anyone have any ideas for nifty attunements the > Archangel of Fear could've granted? How are these off the top of my head? Seraphim: The Most Holy in the service of Fear exude auras of divine awe. Anyone who tries to attack or even disrepect them must first succeed on a Will roll at a penalty equal to the Seraph's Celestial Forces. Ofanim: Beleth's Wheels add their Corporeal Forces to the TN of any attempt to motivate someone to action that serves Heaven by means of fear. Elohim (restricted): With a Perception roll, Fear's Powers can discern what the subject of their Resonance is most afraid of. Fear of God: the angel can strike fear into the hearts of the unrighteous. The angel activates this power by spending 1 Essence and touching or making eye contact with the subject. Multiple subjects may be frightened at once if the angel makes a suitable speech in their hearing. The target(s) gets a Will roll to resist, with Celestials and Ethereals adding their Celestial Forces. Those who fail to resist are struck with panic and must flee the angel's presence at their best possible speed. The fear wears off after (angel's Celestial Forces) turns. Fear of God doesn't work on angels (unless they are Dissonant), Saints or Soldiers of God. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:53:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption - --- "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" wrote: > Or, as I stated last message, they become the biggest > hypocrites in > existance. "I can do what ever evil I want because I can > never fall so > gimmie a whore, find me some crack and let's burn some > babies alive" because > after all, he is a Malakim and can never fall. Not so at all. The fact that one has such an option doesn't make one a hypocrite. Only acting on the option does that. Hence, Malakim still have the option to choose evil, they merely enjoy protection from _one particular consequence_ of that choice. The consequence of being killed by their choirmates is still there, as is the consequence of Discord. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:58:37 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption Elizabeth McCoy writes: > At 8:03 AM -0600 10/1/02, sirea@softhome.net wrote: > [...] >>> Or Genubath. >> >>Well, I loved David's Shedite writeup version, but was dissapointed when I >>saw that GURPS IN listed him as a Calabite, which I assume is now canon. And >>after I made my Kyriotate Genubath too :/ > > IIRC, I asked SJ on that one and SJ said Calabite. And SJ is the man, so that makes it uber-canon ^_^ I'm just miffed that I wrote Genny up as a Kyriotate :D it makes sense for him to be a Calabite, since Valefor stole his Word and he too, was a Calabite. (I like that sick theory that he's wearing Genubath like a "skin". Very unsettling.) > > (The original Genubath -- well, the IN one -- was a Djinn of Theft. SJ > asked me for a name for Rapine. I plucked that one out. Had to rename > the Djinn... Still, I always think of Genny as a Djinn first, and Something > Else after. So who knows.) > A Djinn of Theft? But then, how did... Theft stole Rapine and... ... Ouch. That made my head hurt. I can see it now though "Before they were canon- a look at Heaven and Hell's Superiors. Next up, Genubath, the Shedite/Djinn/Calabite of Theft/Rapine! Wowzers!" --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:59:35 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: IN> Re: He's gone bad. What we need now of course is a show or series of stories, probably set to Dark or at least Uncomfortably Grey, wherein a few Malakim are on Earth with normal usual jobs. Probably either live together or in the same neighborhood. Or maybe they live apart from one another, but have a phone line to keep in contact. And each just waits for that phone to ring. "Yes." "[Insert name of Malakite that has gone Outcast or decided to see if the axiom of their not being able to Fall is true]. He's gone bad." The Malakite hangs up the phone. And then he sits there. The next day after the Malakite has gotten the essence (and if he has a job, well... that's why Trade steps in with a convincing vessel and picks up smoothly) he sends out a message in Celestial Tongues to one other Malakite, who picks it up and transfers it to a third. Then the first Malakite waits, until a black van pulls up outside his door. Then he gets into the van. And the MiB (yes yes, I know it keeps getting referenced as a possible angelic organization. I'm saying it could actually work this way) begin their hunt. It's probably redundant to say that the accused Malakite has already been tried by Judgement in absentia (this is Dark, remember) and the only sentence is Soul Death. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:00:56 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Comes the Night, Comes the Terrible Dawn Ay! Talk about Deep-Fried Cripsy Dark... nice story. I'm a wee bit confused, much like Laurence, but I like it :D poor Litheroy. --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:02:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Free Will, Malakim, and One Lone Demon - --- Jeffery Watkins wrote: > I know its ironic for me to be the one to speak on this, > but I thought the in canon point was angels are selfless > and demons are selfish. > > So if its a selfless act, while generating dissodance, it > doesn't seem like it should make one fall. Except there's that Choir Dissonance problem. A Mercurian might beat the living crap out of a Human in order to, say, prevent a rape. The act itself may be totally selfless, but it's against the Mercurian nature and therefore is punished by Dissonance. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:03:09 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day EDG writes: > At 02:39 PM 10/2/2002 -0500, you wrote: >> According to my girlfriend, today (October 2) is Name Your Car Day. I >> think I'm going to name mine Haagenti (while grumbling about gas prices.) Wouldn't that be Mammon? *gets sudden image of a desperate Haagenti chuggng gasoline* o_O; > > But my car *has* a name. Isn't this discriminatory against the proactive? > ;D Human rights for cars! Vapula wuld want it that way... *sniff* > > Hmm... ObIN... > > Blue Behemoth > Relic/2, +2 Essence capacity > > The Blue Behemoth is a Volvo station wagon, a 1983 245DL that, naturally, > is a faded blue in color and has obviously seen better days. It's not > *quite* unbreakable - otherwise the mud flaps wouldn't be falling off - > but it is a rather special car. > > It skips, you see. > > Not like children skip, or records, but like a stone. Every so often, > when its driver isn't paying attention to the road, it jumps ahead a few > feet, using its innate Celestial Song of Motion - not enough to be truly > noticeable in the short run, but enough to make the driver say "How'd I > get here so fast?" when he finally does arrive. > > On the other hand, it's also twenty years old, and currently in the hands > of a mortal data analyst from Maryland who a) is unaware of the War, and > b) has no potential for six Forces. Servitors of just about anybody could > get great use out of this car - especially Windies - but how to get it > away from him...? > *giggles* I so have to use something like this in my next game ^-^ --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:05:55 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Comes the Night, Comes the Terrible Dawn On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, at 06:00 PM, sirea@softhome.net wrote: > Ay! Talk about Deep-Fried Cripsy Dark... nice story. I'm a wee bit > confused, much like Laurence, but I like it :D poor Litheroy. As with Litheroy, Revelation will come to those who wait. But I pushed the limit as it was, today, so no more on it for a while. If you have specific questions, feel free to post them. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:06:23 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Archangel of Fear. > Seraphim: The Most Holy in the service of Fear exude auras > of divine awe. Anyone who tries to attack or even > disrepect them must first succeed on a Will roll at a > penalty equal to the Seraph's Celestial Forces. Spoot! >.< there goes my Seraph of Awe attunement :/ > > Ofanim: Beleth's Wheels add their Corporeal Forces to the > TN of any attempt to motivate someone to action that serves > Heaven by means of fear. So... you mean they get a bonus to scare a human into doing something that serves Heaven? I really don't like Beleth as Fear... Fear is just too easily a bad or miused Word. Well... then again, that does have it's good points. I just personally can't shake the image of angels scaring humans into becoming obediant Heaven slaves. --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:07:02 +0200 (CEST) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Free Will, Malakim, and One Lone Demon On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 sirea@softhome.net wrote: > I'm sorry to see people arguing over Malakim, free will, and Espira. > Take it as a huge compliment, Sirea. You wouldn't have gotten all this reaction if your fic had been bad or boring. Only well written stuff like this gets under people's skins..;) Yes your story is dark and horrible and depressing and....*sniffle* !!! But there's still Hope. As long as there is Life, there is always Hope. And that's wahat you said at the end. Novalis keeps on toiling. And who knows what Yves hides in his desk... Espira is the kind of character I just want to /hold/! - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:08:57 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Re: He's gone bad. Josh Moger writes: > > > What we need now of course is a show or series of stories, probably set to > Dark or at least Uncomfortably Grey, wherein a few Malakim are on Earth with > normal usual jobs. Probably either live together or in the same > neighborhood. Or maybe they live apart from one another, but have a phone > line to keep in contact. > > And each just waits for that phone to ring. I was -just- thinking about this! Malakim who simply wait for that one phone call- in the (dependng on Brightness dial setting) rare case of one of their siblings "falling out of line". --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:22:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Archangel of Fear. - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > Spoot! >.< there goes my Seraph of Awe attunement :/ Great minds think alike. Unfortunately, so do mediocre ones... 0;> > So... you mean they get a bonus to scare a human into > doing something that serves Heaven? Yup. > Fear is just too easily a bad or miused Word. Easily fixed. Just put a clause designed to punish abuse into the Dissonance condition. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:30:44 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Worlds One and Two (RE: The Event) << Hm. I'd suggest that I'm more in world 1.85 or so -- I write the fluffy, funny bits, but there are still some very nasty bits in the universe. Might even be 1.75... (E.g., at one point, one of the new, non-canonical characters with Kewl Unknown Powerz... disguises herself as a mere Discordant Word-bound instead of the Archangel she's become, and goes to Hades. There are some nasty moral choices, brain-****ing, and general stuff that rather hammered home the point of why one does NOT pretend to be a wee angel just so one can sucker a Prince into getting close enough to backstab. It's going to be tough to write up.) >> Oh, certainly, thry aren't mutually exclusive at all. I never meant to imply that World 2 lacked either pathos or moral complexity, though -- remember, I liken it to Pratchett, whose written a few of the most profound novels I've read. I was mostly talking about a completely different dial that I've just come up with a name for: the "anthropomorphic/ inhuman Superiors" dial. The SSO Superiors seem to be very anthropomorphic to me, at least. Kudos on the great story, BTW. If I might ask, is this character Urielbana? I've always liked your "Wierd Unfazable Lilim" a lot. - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:43:07 -0700 From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: IN> Re: Archangel of Fear It was asked: > Does anyone have any ideas for nifty attunements the Archangel of Fear > could've granted? FEAR THE FEARSOME This is a vareity of Danger Sense attunement -- essentially, the angel gets a Perception roll to see if anything's coming up that she _should_ be afraid of. A CD of 1 reveals obvious dangers, like the large buffalo charging her way; a CD of 6 reveals all dangears, including the really unobvious ones (like the small insect wandering toward your house that is actually a termite and will start eating the foundation beams causing yur entire house to fall on your head.) KNOW FEAR The angel may make a Perception roll to detect whatever the target is currently afraid of. CD 1, you know the target's current greatest fear; CD 6 you know everything they're afraid of, and how afraid of it they are. (Note that this does NOT let you know if the fear is justified, or accurate, or why the target is afraid of X, only that they _are_. You might want a Seraph along to help figure that one out.) Tony Z - -- The real danger of lying to kids is not that they'll find out you lied and stop trusting you; it's that they'll believe the lies and try to live by them. --Eileen Lufkin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:57:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Worlds One and Two (RE: The Event) At 4:30 PM -0600 10/2/02, Julian Mensch wrote: [a diap] >I've just come up with a name for: the "anthropomorphic/ >inhuman Superiors" dial. The SSO Superiors seem to be >very anthropomorphic to me, at least. Yes, they are. I sometimes try for the Weirder (such as when doing Gabriel), but it can be hard. > Kudos on the great story, BTW. If I might ask, is >this character Urielbana? I've always liked your "Wierd >Unfazable Lilim" a lot. That'd be Urichislon, the WUL. No, this is someone else. I need to do an update sometime when I'm not SICK. O:p Neither Urilebana nor Urichislon have become Superiors in the SSO. Urilebana is unlikely to do so, frankly; her main claim to Weird Fame is having a .srl extension. (.srl, you ask? Like a .sea. Self-Extracting Archive, Self-Redeeming Lilim. O:> ) - --Beth's SSO .sig: (Want to hear more about the Superior Soap Opera? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IN-SoapOpera ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:57:14 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Archangel of Fear. << > Fear is just too easily a bad or miused Word. Easily fixed. Just put a clause designed to punish abuse into the Dissonance condition. >> Yup. Another trick -- the one I used for Backwards Greed, Technology, Hardcore, Lust and "the Night" (Nightmares) is to give the Superior the attitude that "there's already lots of this in the world, and it's a part of human nature that will be here for the forseeable future, and trying to stop it would essentially be forcing humans to act against human nature, so lets work to make it a constructive thing, and give humanity the tools to cope with it when it isn't. This also gives you the potential to create an "opposites attract" pairing of your own, if you so desire, between Fear and Valor. That strikes me as a really interesting dynamic, and I think that they would have both common ground (making sure humanity isn't /harmed/ by terror) but their /methods/ would give you plenty of material for spitting contests. - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 17:00:37 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Worlds One and Two (RE: The Event) Urichislon. Yeah, that's who I meant. The one who got booted outside by her sisters to talk to the petulant Archangel in Shal-Mari. :) - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 17:00:38 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Comes the Night, Comes the Terrible Dawn Wow. That's incredible stuff. Thanks! - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:01:11 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Adventure Ideas II. >> I am wondering which superior has the angel of the Blues... > > Falls under the Angel of Soul, Mercurian of Creation. > I'm still working on the write-up. Oi! The _Demon_ of the Blues must be a Habbalah of Dark Humor. "The Blues ain't about feeling good! It's about makin' other people feel bad!" -Bleeding Gums Murphy (The Simpsons) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:01:12 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> The Event > I can't wait to see the children :D Cheraphim and Serubim. Serubim, the Monitors (the Snoops) Serubim may Attune to a target like their Cherub parent but, unlike a Cherub, a Serub may Attune to any number of individuals, but only if said individuals tell the truth in their presence. And then only until the Attuned lies. While the Attunement is in effect the Attuned feels as if someone is looking over their shoulder. Cheraphs, the Consciences (the Guilts) Cheraphs may Attune to a target like their Cherub parent, but instead of knowing the Attuned's location a Cheraph knows when the target lies. The Cheraph may then, at no cost in Essence, use the Celestial song of Tongues to lecture the Attuned about how bad it is to tell lies. ...little mongrel freaks... BC Petery, Who has been advised to seek the Word of Grouchiness. http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 17:08:25 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: IN> One hand on the phone, the other on my sword It was 12 o' clock, midnight, and closing time. I swiftly went through the procedure to close the store for the night, as I had hundreds of times before. Money tucked away. Doors locked. Windows shut. Lights out. Books stacked. Everything in it's place. I headed for the door to leave, flipping the cheerful red "We're Open!" sign to the back. Just as I reached for the doorknob though, I heard the phone rang. I froze. It wasn't the familiar jingle of the blue business phone that sat in the front desk, from which I greeted customers day after day. It was the phone in the back room, the small black one that hung on the only bare wall in the entire building. I dropped the pretense of my Role and vessel, that of a 43-year old woman named Amy, who ran an old bookstore in a small town 60 miles south of Boston, and rushed to the back room with inhuman speed. I had picked it up by the start of the third ring. "Speak." "Hondoriel. He's gone bad." "Word?" "Stone." "When?" "3 hours ago." "Why?" "Poor Impulse Control, and conflict with Word dissonance and the Prime Oath." "Status?" "On a rampage in south Boston, killing humans he thinks are demons. 4 dead already." "Orders?" "Pick up Arellaye at the college down the street, and then meet with me and the others at O'Conners. We leave in 30 minutes." "Understood." I hung up the phone, taking one moment to reflect, before I flew to the locker next to me to gear up. Leather jacket with Song of Shields. Fire sword. Prism with 5 units of Essence. I hummed my Songs to myself a few times while gearing up. Although to others it might have looked like I've done this many times, in truth it was only my 3rd. And I prayed once again it could be my last. I clipped on my earrings, tied my hair back and rushed out the door and to my car. It was windy tonight... smelt like rain. 10 minutes later I pulled up outside of the local college I taught at sometimes, and waited. After only a minute, a small girl wearing a ratty skirt and denim shirt jumped into the car, lugging a large duffel bag behind her. She pushed her purple hair out of her face and looked at me. "Arellaye. Creation." she said, and went silent, looking straight forward. I geared the car up and roared out of the parking lot, flying to the pub a few blocks away. I spoke after a minute "Kaymein. Destiny." There is always five of us, all Malakim. One from Destiny, Judgment, Creation, Flowers and War. Judgment to pass on an appropriate punishment. Creation as weapons expert. War to hear danger, and kick ass. Flowers to try to talk them down if possible. Destiny... well, I was here because Laurence wanted a Malakite of Yves here. I didn't ask. I got to our destination and parked out front. We both silently rushed out to the back, where a large black van sat in a darkened corner of the lot. Outside of it were three more individuals. A tall brooding man with an eagle nose and large, ornate greatsword in hand. He carried a small book in his shirt pocket. The next one was a grizzled woman wearing a heavy trench coat, bulging with the suggestion of heavy weaponry. Last was a young man, wearing sandals with t-shirt and jeans, holding a long iron pole with a barbed end. Dyne, the tall man, and the one who called me, only nodded his head as he got in front. He was the Malakite of Judgment, and a longtime frined of mine. I jumped into the passenger side, while Arellaye, the woman, and the boy jumped into the back. Heavy metal objects rolled around on the floor, and the only sounds I heard was the clicking of guns, sharpening of swords, and zipping of bags being opened and closed. After a few minutes, the noise stopped. The clock read 1:30 on the dot. Dyne looked back, and asked "Are you ready?". There was no response. He nodded his head, started up the van, and looked forward. "Let's go to work." --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:17:27 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> One hand on the phone, the other on my sword > >"Let's go to work." > --- > Yeah, okay, or you could do a wonderfully detailed, extensive, and rather well written writeup taking the idea to an excellent conclusion while inserting nuances of multiple Word relationships and friendships. Rassi frassin... Nice. Josh Who hopes to maybe be able to parley the recent few days into the Word of ^_^', since it is a subset of Inspiration... kinda. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:55:07 -0400 From: Michael Nutt Subject: IN> Hypocrisy (was Re: IN> Espira, Demon of Redemption) Robert Bergeron wrote: > The complacency that sets in with "can never" just vexes me. I think it > leads too easily to hypocrisy, which in my mind is one of the greatest sins. and then later wrote in another post: > And even if your Malakim doesn't go to the extreme of burning babies > alive, the unconcious knowlege in the back of their brains that tells > them that no matter what sin they commit they can never fall makes > them hypocrities. They can never speak out to another angel about > making a choice that might lead to evil because they are exempt > from paying the price of their own sins. So what's wrong with hypocrisy? I think this is a question that when examined closely, will provide you some insight into how you might want to run your games. How is it you believe it to be "one of the greatest sins", exactly? Why do you say can't they speak out about another angel, or even a human, doing something that they believe is wrong? Does the fact that the Malakite can't Fall make the person being criticized any less guilty of wrongdoing? Sure, there's one set of rules for Malakim, and another set of rules for every other angel -- so what? Tell us why it's wrong. I think you'll find that you've got some heretofore-unstated postulates that will materially affect the way your game will work, and how everyone else would understand it. There *are* rules for the Malakim; others have given several examples of them, and how they're enforced. They have to answer to each other for their actions, and they also have to answer to their Archangel, who got the rules for his Malakim from God, who sent word along about how things ought to be, more or less. For some Archangels, like Uriel, Michael, and David, they got information from the Metatron about what is good, and how the universe is to be organized. Other Archangels who came along a little later, like Laurence, may have gotten the information from Yves or the older Archangels. Nevertheless, they pass along direction to their newly-created Servitors about what is good, and what their mission is, and how they should be dealing with the Symphony. If your angels don't have some basic ethical training and education, you've got a majorly-Dark game going there. If they aren't at least indirectly guided by the Will of God, that makes a major difference. There needs to be a reason why they do whatever it is they do, and if they're so selfish that they're just doing whatever it is that occurs to them to do, that's a pretty warped-from-canon game. There are consequences for Malakim who do evil, however you define that term in your game; you just have to be willing to inflict them as a GM. If that means you have to sit down with your players beforehand and say, "Here's what I see it meaning to be an angel", fine. At least everyone will be on the same page. Angels can have free will (if the GM wants it that way), even if the ultimate consequence for doing evil is different for some Choirs. Maybe the Malakim *are* "lesser" beings than other angels, in some sense of the word... but does ranking beings in order of the consequences to them if they violate their natures make any sense? - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:55:29 -0400 From: Michael Nutt Subject: IN> Lucifer's motives (was IN> Espira, Demon of Redemption) > If Lucifer could just wave his hand and damn an angel with a whim, don't you > think he would have done so? If he had the ability to chain every one of > his servants to everlasting submission to his cause, don't you think he > would have done it already? If winning the War was his goal, then he probably would have. What if winning the war is beside the point? What if Lucifer is more concerned with showing, somehow, that he was right? Sure, that could involve "winning the War", and many, perhaps even most, of the demons think that's the goal. But Lucifer is cunning and subtle, and may have his own deeper motives to satisfy. - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:01:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit - --- Cameron McCurry wrote: Fun idea, Cam... but I have it on fairly good authority that at least one noncanonical AA that I know would have pulled out the Flaming Socket Wrench the second she heard the words "Math is hard!" coming out of Barbie's lips, so the long term survival (IMC, at least) of this one might be a tad debatable. Still, I liked it. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 09/18/02 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:07:58 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Espira, Djinn of Corruption, Demon of Redemption From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" > > If you make it a fact that a Malakim cannot fall it means they do not > have free will. They can never conciously choose evil. Not at all. They can choose evil; it will simply cost them more than it will other angels. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 20:14:27 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> New Ethereal Spirit At 05:01 PM 10/2/2002 -0700, you wrote: >know would have pulled out the Flaming Socket Wrench Jeez, Moe, now I've got the image of Jedi mechanics in my head. "All I really want is an oil change -" *handwave* "You need a tuneup and a new air filter." "I need a new tuneup and a new air filter." *handwave* "You also need new tires because you're under a thirtysecond of an inch of tread." "I need - what you said." O_o - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:27:01 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Getting Pushed (Was: Re: IN> Free Will, etc.) Since my notion of Malakim is already pretty well settled as the G:IN canon viewpoint, I'll adress a different aspect of this story. Dissonance is generated when an angel acts against his nature. The most important ramification of this is that Falling must always be a choice. Not necessarily a choice to Fall -- plenty of angels who Fell would rather not have -- but always a consequence of an action the angel chose to take. The idea of getting Pushed, then, bothers me. Instead, I'd rather look at getting Pushed as Hell taking advantage of the any crack in the armor -- and the angel had to bust open the chinks first. Now, one might argue that it's possible to kill all the Attuned of a Cherub, quickly, and make them Fall. But! Even with Infernal Interventions with every note of Dissonance, you'd have to kill at least two Attuned. So: Cherubim are created from Loyalty. Is it really Loyalty when you give your devotion to two recipients? Wouldn't that choice, by its nature, diminish the act of devotion to the first recipient? Perhaps you have Cherubim who, albeit considered exceedingly paranoid or very "fundamentalist" by their Choirmates, refuse to have more than one Attuned, ever. Same for some Kyriotates: a form in the celestial realm, an ethereal icon, but never more than one host. Having more than one host, to such a Kyriotate, would itch at their desire to protect the facet of Creation they're currently experiencing. At best, such angels could be Outcast via Choir Dissonance. It still leaves Word Dissonance to fear, of course, but that's a separate issue. Furthermore, if a Prince(ss) really desires such an angel to Fall rapidly, it's possible to make the choice *extremely* tempting. Kill a Cherub's Attuned, put him in front of a pitiful human in long-term danger from obvious demons, make it very tempting to Attune again, kill this next human, repeat. Expensive in terms of manpower and logistics, but if he had a reason, maybe. But still, the Cherub had to give in to temptation. (If Lucifer desired the Fall, now.... CelCharm *Attune to this man*, slay, Intervene, CelCharm *Attune to this man*, slay, Intervene. Bam, Djinn. Though probably not a very nasty one, and likely to run for a Divine Tether as soon as possible. Angel had no choice for all practical purposes[run away! invoke Superior! kill self! anything Lucy didn't tell you not to do!] - -- but then, Lucifer breaks a lot of rules.) The one variant of this problem that really makes me headache is a Coffin of Undeath. Turn an unwilling human into a vampire? Criminy. If I can't figure out a way to weasel out of the free-will question on that one, I think it wouldn't exist in my game -- or at the very least I'd force the Coffin to boot the human's soul to its eternal reward and just make a zombi. William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:27:41 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Comes the Night, Comes the Terrible Dawn From: "Whistling in the Dark" > > "That is true," Yves said, rising again. "Because the Destiny of the > World, and of Humanity, is more important than the Fate of Michael and > Novalis. Now, we must prepare." Interesting. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:29:39 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Accumulate >(more?) ago, though I have adding even wilder aspects by making Uriel a >Bonkim, Bright Malakim, written up by Kingsley Lintz, and with an anime >twist looks like a Bonakim version of Neo-Queen Serenity/Sailor Moon. >*ducks from even vaguely canon inclined thrown stones* Stones? Are you kidding? The notion of a returned Uriel looking like Neo-Queen Serenity tickles me pink. ^_^ I gave Blandine the role of the original Queen Serenity as a mentor to the Soldier version of Sailor Moon I wrote up a while back. (Yes, yes, there are anti-Mooniacs on the list, so I'll drop the fanraving for now. :^) ) >Jeff =) William ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2796 ********************************