in_nomine-digest Friday, October 4 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2802 In this digest: Re: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day Re: Lilith, Queen of Hell (Was Re: IN> Where the Darkness...) Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day RE: IN> Uriel was wrong? Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day Re: IN> New Superior (I'm feeling QUITE silly today) RE: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn Re: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn Re: IN> Lilim and stuff (Was: the Event) RE: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn IN> Discord: Hairy Re: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn Re: IN> Lilim and stuff (Was: the Event) IN> S.W.A.K. An Adventure Seed Re: IN> The Event Re: IN> New Superior (I'm feeling QUITE silly today) Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day RE: IN> Uriel was wrong? Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day Re: IN> The Event Re: IN> S.W.A.K. An Adventure Seed Re: IN> The Event Re: IN> The Event RE: IN> Uriel was wrong? IN> Contrast (Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2795 - you can change this subject, you know) IN> Balseraphs (Re: Lilim and stuff (Was: the Event)) IN> [DAWN] A Note on Mechanics IN> Lilim and Attunements (Re: The Event) Re: IN> S.W.A.K. An Adventure Seed Re: IN> Balseraphs (Re: Lilim and stuff (Was: the Event)) RE: IN> The Event IN> Perspective Re: IN> Perspective IN> Exactly!!! Re: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn Re: IN> Exactly!!! Re: IN> Exactly!!! Re: IN> Perspective ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:45:09 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 08:50 AM, Michael Walton wrote: >> The Lion and the >> Lamb don't actually lie down together anywhere in the >> bible. But that's neither here nor there.) > > You might want to recheck Revelations on that one. > Might I? *Neat!* Do you have a verse for me? I did some electronic searches before making the above statement, but clearly didn't parse it right. (Sorry, I love symbolic prophetic scripture. It's what makes the Branch stuff in Isiah so much fun. If there's a section of Revelations I missed in that last search, I wants it, my precious.) - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 14:51:40 -0400 From: Michael Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day At 02:39 PM 10/2/2002 -0500, you wrote: >According to my girlfriend, today (October 2) is Name Your Car Day. I >think I'm going to name mine Haagenti (while grumbling about gas prices.) I suppose my car's earning the name "Saminga"; every time I turn around lately it seems like something's dying on it (the fact that it's white also fits, now that I think about it). The last few days saw something go horribly wrong with my oil system now. On the bright side, if it is Saminga, I suppose that when it does finally die it'll just come back as Undead and then run great even without gas (sure, it'll probably start veering on its own to run over pedestrians to fuel it instead, but hey, you can't make an omelette without sacrificing the lives of innocent people... :)). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:54:52 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: Lilith, Queen of Hell (Was Re: IN> Where the Darkness...) On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 10:39 AM, EDG wrote: > At 11:20 PM 10/3/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >> Well, that's true. But if you remember all the way back to my old >> "Lilith, Queen of Hell" stuff, I've always been about Yves and Kronos >> fighting a war that had the rest of the War as an afterthought, and >> the other participants as expendable.... > > As a side note: > > Much-belatedly, "Lilith, Queen of Hell" can be found here: > > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/new/GMs/Settings/lqoh- > index.html > Mmm -- this reinforces how desperately I need to get a writeup of Rebekah, Lilithian Princess of the Deal to the list, doesn't it? Thanks, EDG! - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:09:12 -0700 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day Oh what the heck... I think that for right now, I am going to call my car "Zadkiel." I was in an accident on Wednesday and my little Honda Civic EX not only protected me to the extent that I was still walking after the accident, she rendered the offending vehicle (A late model Jeep Cherokee) inoperable. She might keep the name if she doesn't get totalled out after this... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:14:52 -0400 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: RE: IN> Uriel was wrong? Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: >Why was Uriel wrong to persecute all of them? > >Sure, some of 'em acted nice, but they're still ethereals. Killing 'em was >about as evil as 'killing' things in a computer game. Actually, that may have been the line of thought Uriel was going through when he looked at the Marches full of Ethereal Pseudo-Deities. He saw a whole lot of "Runaway Data" that was using up the Marches, and pulling humanity away from it's Destiny. ...So he decided to clear up the Marches "for Humanity's own Good". Unfortunetly, instead of consulting with Blandine on how best to clean up the Marches of negative influences, he just tried to wipe the whole thing clean with disastrous results. And since he wouldn't listen to reason and stop his Crusade, God eventually had to recall him to the Higher heavens and assign Laurence to replace him, putting an end to the Crusade. ...At least, that's how I see it now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:32:41 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day My cars have always been named Rubicon, after the Ethereal who possesses them. However, Rubicon's current incarnation *does* have a vanity license plate of SMITE. Honestly. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:48:19 +0000 From: glasgowc1@attbi.com Subject: Re: IN> New Superior (I'm feeling QUITE silly today) > In response to the direct threat of ULTIMUS MAXIMUS, Hell has banded > together in a rare moment of unity to create Feltonius, Demon Prince of > GMs. And the worst thing is, he's the *nice* one of the family. His *cousin*... brrr, she looks so harmless, and next thing you know she's making Beleth look like Novalis. *eg* > Feltonius combines the cruelty of Magog, lethality of Saminga, lust > for battle of Baal, knowledge of Kronos, wry sense of humor of Kobal, > ability to divide as Malphas, nightmarish dreamscapes of Beleth and rules > lawyering abilities of Asmodeus. Naaah... VanHoosius spanks his butt there, every single time. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:20:22 -0400 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn Michael Walton wrote: >> The Lion and the >> Lamb don't actually lie down together anywhere in the >> bible. But that's neither here nor there.) > > You might want to recheck Revelations on that one. > Eric Burns wrote: > Might I? *Neat!* Do you have a verse for me? Actually, I think the relevant verse is in Isaiah after all: The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. -- Isaiah 11:6 As you see, it's the WOLF that lies down with the lamb, while the lion lies down with the calf and the yearling. (Yearling what I'm not sure. Maybe a slightly older calf.) In the next verse, we have: The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. which, as C. S. Lewis remarked, a normal lion would regard as a description of Hell, not Heaven. Presumably it all seems different once you get there... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:28:05 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 04:20 PM, Wajenberg, Earl wrote: > > Eric Burns wrote: > >> Might I? *Neat!* Do you have a verse for me? > > Actually, I think the relevant verse is in Isaiah after all: > > The wolf will live with the lamb, > the leopard will lie down with the goat, > the calf and the lion and the yearling together; > and a little child will lead them. -- Isaiah 11:6 > > As you see, it's the WOLF that lies down with the lamb, while the lion > lies > down with the calf and the yearling. (Yearling what I'm not sure. > Maybe a > slightly older calf.) > > In the next verse, we have: > > The cow will feed with the bear, > their young will lie down together, > and the lion will eat straw like the ox. > > which, as C. S. Lewis remarked, a normal lion would regard as a > description > of Hell, not Heaven. Presumably it all seems different once you get > there... > Ah! Yes -- this section I know about. These are signs of the coming of the Messiah (the Branch), who is the culmination of the Line of David and who will take up his sword and establish the new Kingdom of Jerusalem. Which is a very different kind of Messiah than the one of the New Testament. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 16:31:19 -0400 From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and stuff (Was: the Event) Unni Solaas wrote: > Yes, I know angelic groups don't want to be caught dead cooperating with a > bal. But they don't necessarily /know/ that their new friend is one, do > they? Not all balseraphs slime and ooze. Not all balseraphs insists that > the One True Way to World Domination is to out-arrogance and out-power all > others. Some swear blind that being Nice and Clever gets you there quicker > and safer. And it's more fun that way. One of the ideas I had for a demon entering a mostly angelic group (breaking the free Lilim mold) was a Balseraph of Fate...with the Seraph resonance. Granted, Fate is one of the more ickier Words (in concept anyway, in execution it can be fairly neat). But, such a character is not likely to use its Bal-resonance. Especially not on other PCs (what I perceive as one reason why most games are angelic, demonic groups are probably more prone to players screwing over other players). You could really make such a character a tragic figure, torn between his balseraphic and seraphic nature. Also, redemption (and I'm of the opinion that all characters should have the potential to redeem or fall and players should think about what it would take for this to happen) means that you wouldn't really have to alter the way you play the character (if a demonic PC redeems, then continuing to be played that way probably remains a good thing for the new angel). Sam! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:34:29 -0400 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn Whistling in the Dark wrote: > These are signs of the coming of > the Messiah (the Branch), who is the culmination of the Line of David > and who will take up his sword and establish the new Kingdom of > Jerusalem. Which is a very different kind of Messiah than the one of > the New Testament. But very like the Messiah of Revelation. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:49:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Discord: Hairy There is a legend about how Lilith could be told from a mortal woman -- despite her great beauty -- by the fact of her incredibly hairy legs. And this, in an era before disposable razors in the supermarket! Well, the truth or lack thereof is an exercise for the reader, because _I'm_ not gonna try to ask her. However, there is a little-known Discord... Level 1: Though dark, thick, long, and coarse, a shaving a day will keep the Discord down to a mere "five-o-clock shadow" level. Level 2: Forget wearing hose or spandex, unless you plan to shave every six hours. Level 3: Forget about wearing thin socks, unless you plan to shave every 3 hours. Level 4: The hairy region is not just the legs, but extending down to the top of the foot, and up to the hips! You're better off with a sheep shearer, since you're unlikely to finish with a razor in the hour this stuff takes to grow to its full length. (On the plus side, you can entice pervy hobbit foot-fetishists.) Level 5: Everything from the soles of the feet, up to about the navel, is fuzzy. Baths in Nair (a trademarked hair remover name) will do for about 30 minutes... Tight pants will itch horribly (the hair gets rubbed the wrong way). Loose ones aren't much better, and the hair tends to poke through anyway. Get a skirt. Level 6: Give up, wear a long dress (or a burka), and console yourself that you've got a great "costume" as a satyr for halloween or SF conventions. (Hooves not included.) (Why, yes, I was just shaving in the shower. Why do you ask?) - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:44:36 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 04:34 PM, Wajenberg, Earl wrote: > Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >> These are signs of the coming of >> the Messiah (the Branch), who is the culmination of the Line of David >> and who will take up his sword and establish the new Kingdom of >> Jerusalem. Which is a very different kind of Messiah than the one of >> the New Testament. > > But very like the Messiah of Revelation. > Unquestionably. Who shares with the Old Testament Messiah a pronounced lack of Jesus-like love, even as the enemies come together in his wake. Something perhaps to think about, In Nomine wise.... - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:08:57 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and stuff (Was: the Event) > Also, redemption (and I'm of the opinion that all characters should have the potential to redeem or fall and players should think about what it would take for this to happen) means that you wouldn't really have to alter the way you play the character (if a demonic PC redeems, then continuing to be played that way probably remains a good thing for the new angel). That's another reason I like Lilim so much. If they Fall/Redeem, there isn't *that* much of a nature change. Whereas... ...oh, let's take Habbalah. I *like* Habbalah. I like empathic/emotion-based characters, and the IPG expansion says Punishers can sense emotions too (at a penalty, without some/most of the perks of the Elohite resonance), which makes 'em even cooler. And I've come up with concepts for high-delusion and low-delusion, Fallen and Hellborn. But I haven't come up with a concept that could Redeem into an Elohite with an outlook I'd want to play. So I've never *played* a Habbalite (yet), because I'd rather be certain that I can handle the 'side-swap' if it comes up. It might just be me being excessively paranoid - after all, Falling/Redeeming doesn't happen often enough to be *expected* in canon default IN games. But it's one of the factors in my choice of Band (or Choir.) ~S.D. Ryukage ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:16:13 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> S.W.A.K. An Adventure Seed Sealed With A Knee (You were expecting a kiss?) [Pick a demon your players like. Or would like to screw over. Have said demon give this speech. If the chosen demon has some way to compel the players assistance, that's fine too.] "I've got these enemies. A trio of Malakim of War. Since I don't know their proper names I call them Larry, Moe and Curly. If their nicknames lead you to believe that they aren't very clever you are correct. They show up every once in a while and try to kill me. Hasn't worked yet. Rather than kill them and have them bounce back I simply shoot out their kneecaps. They eventually run out of Essence for the Song of Healing, and their low wills keep them from quickly getting to their hearts and asking for healing/replacement Vessels. I think they've got a machismo thing. "That's not the problem. "Saminga got wind of all this, but his information seems to be slightly distorted. He now believes that I have a collection of broken Malakite kneecaps and he wants it for himself. He said so. In person. "Baal also wants to know why I didn't offer my nonexistent collection to him first. He also said so in person. "Vapula wants them for experimental purposes. Mammon just wants a piece of the action. Servitors of Valefor and Asmodeus have been following me around. Servitors of Kobol have been following the Servitors of Valefor and Asmodeus around. Andrealphus wants certain _other_ Malakim parts. "That's still not the problem. I can get more kneecaps. "The problem is my three stooges have stopped showing up." [If you are a Chaotic Evil GM (And who isn't sometimes?) you can spring this on a group of angels. Demons are manically hunting Malakim, and carving the kneecaps out their dead Vessels. Your Superior wants to know why! NOW!] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:29:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Event - --- Samovar3@aol.com wrote: > What I wouldn't mind seeing is some sort of limitation on > the number of times a celestial could use their resonance The IN LARP in Austin has this -- it's one of the aspects of the game that I don't like. I prefer a less artificial solution to the problem. Processing time works well for the Mercurian, Malakite and Elohite Resonances. For Seraphim, you can corral them easily while on Earth; "lie overload" from overuse of Resonance is a canonical problem that the Most Holy deal with. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:33:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Superior (I'm feeling QUITE silly today) Okay... what's next? The Ethereal God of Gaming? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:34:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day - --- Michael Bruner wrote: > you > can't make an omelette without sacrificing the lives of > innocent people... Been reading "To Serve Man" again, I see. };> =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:37:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> Uriel was wrong? - --- Rolland Therrien wrote: > Actually, that may have been the line of thought Uriel > was going through > when he looked at the Marches full of Ethereal > Pseudo-Deities. [snip] > ...So he decided to clear up the Marches "for Humanity's > own Good". > Unfortunetly, instead of consulting with Blandine on how > best to clean up > the Marches of negative influences, he just tried to wipe > the whole thing clean with disastrous results. Yup. It's the difference between running a virus scan and formatting your hard drive. Some problems do require the latter solution, but you save yourself a lot of time and effort if you don't go that route before you're sure that it's necessary. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:38:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Today is Name-Your-Car Day - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > My cars have always been named Rubicon, after the > Ethereal who possesses them. Remind me not to cross the street in front of your car. Hey, would you want to cross Rubicon (says Mike, who named a character that once just so he could use that pun)? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:45:16 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> The Event For >Seraphim, you can corral them easily while on Earth; "lie >overload" from overuse of Resonance is a canonical problem >that the Most Holy deal with. > Surprised that we haven't seen a Discord: Migraine pop up on the list for GM's to slap overzealous Seraphim with. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:43:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> S.W.A.K. An Adventure Seed BC, did I mention that you're sick? 0:> =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:45:12 -0600 From: ebertish@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> The Event Samovar3@aol.com writes: > Couldn't you make this same argument for some of the more game wrecking resonances out there? There has been much gnashing of teeth on the list in regards to the mercurian resonance. And comments to the effect of "forget playing a mystery if there's a seraph PC." Okay, let me put a bit more teeth into my opinion: "If you want the fun of playing a demon without having the demonic drawbacks, the price you pay is no unique attunement. If you want the unique attunement, play a standard choir like the rest of us." -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:09:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Event At 11:22 PM -0400 10/3/02, Josh Moger wrote: >(Was there ever any discussion, I'm asking Beth, David, etc here, about >causing the Brights to have a resonance shift along with an appearence >shift, all post-redemption?) Brights were before my time. (Derek hated 'em, I seem to recall.) I presume that SJ approved the no-resonance-shift bit. (Well, save for getting to use it through media -- that was a logical extension.) Originally, IIRC, Lilim were going to have a Charm and Geas resonance, like the Impudite Charm and Drain one. That's what all the leftover attunement references to "charm" are from. It just got shifted to a more broad meaning for 'charm.' - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:17:41 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Uriel was wrong? At 4:50 PM -0600 10/3/02, Julian Mensch wrote: [...] > So basically, for the idea of God as pure goodness >to have any value to seculars (and many liberal theists!), >He has to be doing and promoting things that we think >are good, by non-theological standards. Genociding the >competition pushes Him out of that realm. As this pertains to IN and the Purity Crusade -- with the Metatron dead, it's a lot harder for God to make Its wishes known these days... If all you have is a sledgehammer, it can be awful hard to just nudge someone back on course. Generally, you have to wait and see if it's going to get close to course on its own, or if you have to just SMASH things. Or so one could argue, if you want the premise of "Uriel at least made some mistakes," plus "God is good" (for some value of good)... - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:34:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Contrast (Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2795 - you can change this subject, you know) At 4:44 AM +0800 10/4/02, Jeffery Watkins wrote: >Personally, I like a gray world (as opposed to bright or dark), but there don't >seem to be many on the list who agree with that. Oh, on the contrary -- I'm quite fond of gray. The thing is, I turn the median Brightness up a notch, so it's a slightly light gray... No, wait, let me pin it down a little more. Brightness: medium-high. Contrast: medium-low Bell-curve: Exists, looks fairly normal, except the trailing edge of "dark" is a little longer than the trailing edge of "bright." Humor: Lots, both metahumor and character humor. Or, lessee... The world's state is one that it's possible to be optimistic about without being totally deluded. (Though it's no utopia, and you have to keep on your toes lest something get by, if you're an angel.) Angels and demons are pretty easy to tell apart, but there is overlap in outward attitude -- some angels are vicious SOBs, some demons are pretty keen (if selfish). While there are plenty of demon scum around, there are also demons who are not so scummy that you have to hate them entirely, and they're a sizable minority, not a miniscule one. (Though a lot of them may be that way for quite selfish reasons -- atrocities attract attention.) The bell-curve bit means that there is blackest evil -- but it's out further on the spectrum. Meta-humor -- if there's a chance to do something which will allow players to snicker at the thought of the expression on someone's face, it's likely to happen. Is this the canon default for the canon game? NO! In fact, NN NN OOOO NNN NN OO OO NNNN NN 0O OO NN NN NN OO OO NN NN NN OO OO NN NNNN 00 OO NN NNN OOOO, IT IS NOT CANON. But it's what I tend to like. (Some people may think I have a higher gray-setting. Perhaps, though I would argue that theirs is simply darker than medium. O:> OTOH, I tend to talk about the more amusing bits, and the humor stuff tends to be lighter, so, and thus, and such.) - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:35:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Balseraphs (Re: Lilim and stuff (Was: the Event)) At 1:16 PM +0200 10/4/02, Unni Solaas wrote: >You'll probably want to be careful with what Superior you choose. I just >cannot manage to see Baal having a "benevolent" balseraph in his service. >I'm not twisted ehough yet..;) [You did notive the quotation marks around >the word 'benevolent', yes? Good.] http://users.rcn.com/emccoy.nh.ultranet/IOU/myINIOU10.html Balseraph of the War. Humorous setting, true, and there's a little Geas Discord thing bending his poor snake brain, but still. Mallory's such an amusing snake. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:37:35 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> [DAWN] A Note on Mechanics As we are discussing the Grigori in the "Terrible Dawn" series, it behooves us to discuss the Mechanics of the Grigori. The Grigori resonance and statistics used herein, until such time as Canon versions of said materials are available, can be found on David Edelstein's web site at http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Grigori.html. These Watchers echo the 'canon' GURPS In Nomine Grigori as closely as any could, though when a true Canon description of the Grigori becomes available it will supplant these materials. The Skulkers, or Fallen Grigori, have the same resonance and dissonance conditions. However, they apply it differently. A Dark Grigori cannot perceive mental or soul damage, but instead may, when confronted with disturbance, roll a Will roll with the total Disturbance divided by 2 as a penalty. With a success, they smooth out the jangles of the Symphony, leaving it undisturbed (and hiding their actions.) They may use this 'smoothing' of the Symphony in lieu of acting upon Disturbance they hear -- selfishly preventing other Celestials from hearing the Disturbance instead of working to selflessly responding to it. At this time, the name, statistics and attunements of the Canon Archangel of Song are not known. Sorry about that. As with my own campaign, Azrael, the Grigori Archangel of Death (http://www.amadan.org/Innomine/Azrael.htm) is also a part of this setting. Thank you, and carry on. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:51:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Lilim and Attunements (Re: The Event) At 10:03 AM -0600 10/4/02, ebertish@softhome.net wrote: >'Zigactly my point. Someone brought up the argument that minor choirs got >attunements, and I was pointing to a canonical example of "Not for every AA, >they don't." Mind, Minor Choirs don't get 'em because not everyone has access to the Minor Choir writeup, and anyway, there are a lot of minor Choirs and a lot of minor AAs. (Or minor Bands and minor Princes.) It's the same reason why the minor Superiors only get Superior Opinions listed in the Superiors books they appear in -- it takes up a lot of space, and somewhere or another there's going to be a hole of "Okay, so why doesn't Superior X have an attunement listed in Choir Y's writeup?" and the answer will be, "Because Choir Y was written before Superior X was invented." Lilim, while a minor Choir, are a major Band and present in the main book. They get attunements. Because they were in the main book and people would gripe about it if they didn't have attunements for the brightside version. If'n ya don' wanna use 'em, then don' use 'em. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 18:58:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> S.W.A.K. An Adventure Seed At 5:16 PM -0400 10/4/02, BC Petery wrote: >Sealed With A Knee (You were expecting a kiss?) *snip* BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *gasp* HAHAHAHAHA! - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 00:49:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Balseraphs (Re: Lilim and stuff (Was: the Event)) On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >I'm not twisted ehough yet..;) > > Balseraph of the War. > > Humorous setting, true, and there's a little Geas Discord thing > bending his poor snake brain, but still. Mallory's such an amusing > snake. ...of course - just because _I'm_ not thoroughly demented just yet doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of people out there who are. And thank Heav...er..Go...um... Thank for that!! :) Mallory's a cutsie! - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:13:19 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> The Event This is _not_ at Casca specifically. It's just about all the recent Lilim-bashing in general. << Okay, let me put a bit more teeth into my opinion: "If you want the fun of playing a demon without having the demonic drawbacks, the price you pay is no unique attunement. If you want the unique attunement, play a standard choir like the rest of us." >> Which begs the question of why we should want to limit the amount of fun people have at a gaming table, or why "the rest of us" are worthy of being rewarded in a way the Bright Lilim player isn't. I have to say, this attitude to game balance really grates on me. It implies that the player is supposed to be _punished_ for finding (Bright) Lilim cool, and to me that just reeks of the elitist kind of popularity contests that infect the fans of Certain Other Games: "Your 'kewl' character is too fanboyish, so I'm going to punish you for crimping the style of my setting, which by the way is all slick and stuff, but in a mature, serious way, unlike your adolescent creation." It amounts to "my play style is cooler than yours," and I find that attitude to be hardly above the high school level. I'd rather people play whatever they find fun than waste their time having pretensious pissing contests over who is the most "mature" gamer. Now, others on the list have pointed out that Brights have lots of downsides -- they are damaged goods, owing geasa to demons, Asmodeus wants all seven of them dead, Laurence wants to dominate them (and not in the 'fun' sense, either), their Superior will micromanage them personally, etc. You want them to have another drawback? Fine: THEIR RESONANCE SUCKS. Seriously. Not to say it's not interesting -- it is, and it gives way to a whole bunch of stories, but as munch factor goes, it's really not one of the better resonances in the game. Resonances that are, IMO, hands-down more powerful include Seraphim, Ofanim, Mercurian and of course, ***KYRIOTATE***!!! Hell, even Balseraphs have IMO an overall better resonance: they don't have to worry about fulfilling Needs before they mindf**k the people around them. The Lilim resonance is definately _neat_, but it's not any more powerful than the rest. - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:13:10 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: IN> Perspective > This is _not_ at Casca specifically. It's just about > all the recent Lilim-bashing in general. Dude, it's just a *game*. Chill. You're freaking like we're talking about your sister. Okay, let me try this: What if you were running a game, and someone said to you, "Y'know, I really like the Calabite resonance, but I don't wanna be a demon. Can I play a redeemed Calabite who gets to keep his kewl demonic resonance?" If your answer is anything approximating "No special dispensation for you! If you want the resonance, you have to play a demon," then we can come to an understanding. If you don't see what the big fuss is about and you'd allow it, then I'm afraid we're jsut going to have to respect the others' opinion but let the matter drop. - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 22:21:49 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Perspective At 10:13 PM 10/4/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Okay, let me try this: What if you were running a game, and someone said to >you, "Y'know, I really like the Calabite resonance, but I don't wanna be a >demon. Can I play a redeemed Calabite who gets to keep his kewl demonic >resonance?" It's funny you should pick this example; *this has happened to me*. (Player decided he wanted to play a Calabite of Novalis. I decided that was just fine. Even made up an attunement for him. Calabim of Flowers: Identical to Ofanim of Flowers. Plus, you redeem and are now an Ofanite of Flowers instead. Oddly, that game never got off the ground.) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:20:33 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: IN> Exactly!!! From: "S.D." > That's another reason I like Lilim so much. If they Fall/Redeem, there isn't *that* much of a nature change. Whereas... Exactly my point . There should be a far more fundamental nature change, and there isn't. Apparently, I'm just an anti-Lilim bigot. *shrug* - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:29:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Where the Darkness Knows No Dawn - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > Might I? *Neat!* Do you have a verse for me? I did some > electronic > searches before making the above statement, but clearly > didn't parse it right. You did just fine; the specific verse that uses the "lion and lamb" phrase is, in fact, in Isaiah. I was speaking more of the metaphorical aspects* -- specifically about how conflict will no longer be necessary after Armageddon. For that I refer you to Revelation 21, verses 4-9 and 22-27. What this has to do with IN: many theologians interpret Revelation 21 not as a description of Heaven but of what Earth will become when the war between Heaven and Hell is over. This is also how many angels would see it. This is the world that they're fighting to create. Nice to have a spot of character motivation, neh? *Of course there are Christians who believe that some of the language in the Bible is metaphorical. Neither testament was written in a cultural vacuum, after all, and poetic speech is a time-honored Middle Eastern tradition. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:32:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Exactly!!! - --- Eric Bertish wrote: > Apparently, I'm just an anti-Lilim bigot. *shrug* Ah ha! Once again Choirism rears its ugly head! See, the Man is just trying to keep the Bright Lilim down! Power to the Gifters! Power to the Gifters! 0;> =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:44:02 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Exactly!!! Eric Bertish wrote: > > From: "S.D." > > That's another reason I like Lilim so much. If they Fall/Redeem, there > isn't *that* much of a nature change. Whereas... > > Exactly my point . There should be a far more fundamental nature change, and > there isn't. But why? The celestial form changes. The reaction to the Light of Heaven changes. Apparently the resonance does change slightly; and their mind-set changes fundamentally, from one of never doing a favor without expecting to be repaid to one that gives them the nickname of "Gifters". Why is it so essential that the resonance and dissonance conditions change? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 20:55:23 -0600 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Perspective Eric Bertish wrote: > Okay, let me try this: What if you were running a game, and someone > said to > you, "Y'know, I really like the Calabite resonance, but I don't wanna be a > demon. Can I play a redeemed Calabite who gets to keep his kewl demonic > resonance?" http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/digests/1999/11/1-1419.txt , subject line "Bright Bands". I've actually been working on a complete revision on-and-off for the last few months. - -- Steven E. Ehrbar ehrbar@softhome.net stevenehrbar@elp.rr.com We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech. - David Brin ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2802 ********************************