in_nomine-digest Sunday, October 13 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2818 In this digest: Re: IN> Only single choir/brand Sup? IN> And the last shall be first... Re: IN> Only single choir/brand Sup? Barbael, Kyriotate Archangel of Faith (was Re: IN> Faith Varient Archangels of) IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination RE: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination IN> Candi, Demon of Blonde Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: IN> Faith (from: The Glory of Islam) RE: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:19:59 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Only single choir/brand Sup? >>[...]darn :/ there goes something else I thought was canon. Ah well. > > IIRC, it's in Superiors 3, Gabriel's writeup, some boxed text. If I didn't > have a wiggleworm in my lap, nursing and trying to play with my necklaces, > I'd look it up... Ow, sorry about the baby :/ well, I do recall that the INcyclopedia listed it as a Kyriotate, and it would make sense I suppose... so I'll go with that. Won't be the first time I've had a Choir identity-crisis :D (look at Genubath...) --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:56:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: IN> And the last shall be first... First attempt here at a story idea. Be gentle. :) Jean is working on an important experiment on the nature of Choirs in the Symphony whenthings go completely nuts. The experiment blows up in his face with a massive change in the symphony and yet when the change is done, he doesn't really see what it did until he leaves his personal laboratory, goes into a hall and sees a Gregori! He asks theGregori how he got back into Heaven and the Gregori replies Master, don't you recognize me, its Liwet! (Liwet is the Seraph Master ot the Machine, Angel of Mathematics). She give information only She and Jean would know about Raphael, and Jean accepts her. They travel throughthe Halls of progress and find that all seraphs have become gregori, Cherubim and Mercurians have switched and Ofanim and Kyriotates have switched. Jean continues to the Council Spires and finds that this switch has happened across heaven. Only the Bright Lilim, Malakites and Elohites (and of course yves) have been left alone. With no Seraph AAs and only one Cherubim AA for now, that Cherubim , Marc, takes over temporarily. Soonn reports from earth indicate that this switch has also occured among the demons. Bal-> Dark Gregori, Djinn and Impudites, Calabim and Shedite. OK, any idea where to go with this (and yes the trashcan is an acceptable response) 1) This could easily be Vapula's experiment, but wanted to start with Heaven's view... 2) Heaven has some significant advantages in this becuase the Malakim aren't changed and the Calabites they'll be facing were shedites before the change... 3) HOwever with no seraphs left, it seems a key link with heaven has been lost 4) Until the new Seraphs who were on earth as Gregori show up.. (would Dominic exike himself from heaven since is one of the Gregori?) 5) Fire and Wind seem to be sparks and small whirlwinds since they are now Kyriotate AAs. What does Jordi do as an Ofanite though... YIN Randy - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 01:21:08 -0400 (EDT) From: jamoge@wm.edu Subject: Re: IN> Only single choir/brand Sup? Quoting sirea@softhome.net: Won't be the first time I've had a Choir > identity-crisis :D (look at > Genubath...) Or the last... ~~~ "Can I please, pretty please be a Habbalite?" "No Mariel! Bad Djinn, no cookie!" ~~~ Josh, ^_^' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 05:59:50 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Barbael, Kyriotate Archangel of Faith (was Re: IN> Faith Varient Archangels of) On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 11:59 AM, Jeffery Watkins wrote: > >> My variant Archangels of Faith tend to group around Seraphim or >> Kyriotates > > A Kyriotate?!? Wow! That sounds really interesting. Do you have that > one written up or willing to? > Hm. I ought to finish the next chapter of Terrible Dawn... oh heck... BARBAEL Kyriotate Archangel of Faith "The World is made of many paths, but the destination is the same." A shining cloud of icons and representations, Barbael is in many ways the perfect Kyriotate. He has taught her Servitors that even if two hundred people have a different perspective on one Truth, that Truth remains. Barbael devotes his considerable influence and interest to promoting the concept of Belief among the many disparate cultures and traditions on Earth. Barbael and her followers believe in inclusionary systems, where many can come together in fellowship instead of following one true path. That has put the Archangel of Faith in conflict with his fellow Archangels more than once. However, she tends to accept the different points of view brought before him as valid, even if they rail against her. In recent centuries, he has expanded this philosophy into experiments in faith as fellowship rather than dogma. New England Transcendentalism, Unitarianism and Universalism have all been supported by Barbael's efforts, in an effort to continue to evolve the concept of Faith beyond dogma. This has not endeared Barbael to Laurence. His Servitors work quietly on Earth and in Heaven, as Faith cannot be forced on the unbelievers. Where it is weak, the Faithful nurture it. Where it burns brightly, the Faithful add fuel to that fire. Acts of true faith attract their interest and support -- sometimes with radically different or even contradictory impulses. It is said that Servitors of Faith walked with Martin Luther King when he made nonviolent protests an act of faith, and said that Servitors of Faith rode with Suicide Bombers on buses in Jerusalem. Martyrs and peacemakers alike attract their attention. This causes some angels consternation, when they see different and even esoteric faiths receiving the support of the Faithful. DISSONANCE Faith requires something more than knowledge. It requires the acceptance in a person's heart of something they cannot prove, but simply know. Therefore, it is dissonant for Angels of Faith to provide concrete evidence of celestial or supernatural events. Note this does *not* mean Angels of Faith cannot assume Celestial Form, use Songs or other miraculous powers, or otherwise act before humans (for example). What they cannot do is *explain* what they are and what the humans have seen. A human being who sees a Mercurian in celestial form is free to have his religious epiphany, but should not have it confirmed or denied by that Mercurian. Further, should any 'supernatural' action on the part of a Servitor of Faith be captured on film or otherwise provide evidence away from the event itself, the angel takes dissonance. Destroying such tangible evidence will remove the dissonance (though it's singularly hard to destroy an explanation without using a Song of Oblivion or performing a crude lobotomy on the person they explained the truth to). CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS Seraphim: (Restricted) Faith and Belief are closely aligned. Accordingly, the Most Holy of Faith can pierce the web of words and formalities to the core beliefs of a person. When using their resonance, they not only learn whether or not a person is lying, they also learn what the person's actual beliefs on the subject are, assuming they have any. These do not have to be religious beliefs; casual and secular opinions are valid discoveries. The higher the check digit, the more detailed the learned beliefs are. Cherubim: As expressions of Divine Love and Compassion, bound to the very concept of Faith, the Cherubim of Barbael are literally the answer to humanity's prayers. Whenever a mortal makes a sincere prayer for Heavenly intervention -- for any purpose, worthy or not -- a Cherub of Faith has a chance to hear that prayer the same way they hear disturbance. The prayer has a 'disturbance' equal to the mortal's Celestial Forces plus 3, for purposes of determining range and chance of perceiving the prayer. The GM may choose to add 1 point for exceptionally fervent prayers. If the Cherub succeeds in hearing a prayer, he knows exactly what is being prayed for. Please note that only prayers to God -- either in the abstract or in a specific Divine Religion) can be heard. A 'prayer' to the universe at large or to an Ethereal cannot be detected. Ofanim: It is said that Faith can move Mountains -- for the Wheels of Barbael, this is the simple truth. An Ofanite of Faith may substitute a Will roll for any Strength roll he might make. He may also choose to use Will + Celestial Forces as his target number in Corporeal Combat, instead of Strength + Corporeal Forces. And, he may use a Will Roll to lift or throw an object or person within 10 x Celestial Forces yards as if using a Strength Roll. Note that the Ofanite's opponents get their normal chances to dodge or break out of a grapple, even if being held by the Ofanite's iron faith. Elohim: One of the smallest choirs among the Faithful, the road of the ever-objective Elohim of Faith is a difficult, yet rewarding one. Elohim of Faith may, with a perception roll, determine if a target's decisions were guided by their beliefs, and if so what beliefs drove those decisions. Note that this isn't an automatic demon detector. Learning that a man stole a valuable diamond necklace because he truly believed it would give him favor from above could mean the man is actually a Demon of Theft, or a man in an odd cult of personality, or a simply delusional person, for example. Malakim: (Restricted) As harsh as the Word of God and as sharp as Occam's Razor, the Malakim of Barbael cleave lip service from core belief. They may use their resonance to determine their target's adherence (or lack thereof) to their faith and beliefs as well as their honor. They gain similar information to their target's honor, based on their check digit (so a CD of 1 yields the strongest adherence or failure in the person's faith for the past week, a 3 yields the 3 adherences or failures of the past year, and so on.) Note that the Malakite does not learn what that actual Faith *is* by this method. (So, for example, learning a man's greatest act of faith in the past week was killing a goat and reading its entrails might inform the Malakite's next move.) Kyriotates: (Restricted) It is said that faith can inspire great deeds, and the Dominations of Faith embody this simple truth. At the Kyriotate's discretion, when possessing a sentient person, the Kyriotate can choose to inhabit the person but not control their mind. The person cannot communicate with the angel within him, and still has complete control over his actions. However, he *does* feel an overwhelming sense of love and grace around him, and while the Kyriotate inhabits the person, he has use of the Kyriotate's statistics, including Body Hits. If the Kyriotate and the host have a skill in common, and the Kyriotate has a higher skill in it, the person may use the Kyriotate's skill level in place of it. Note that the Kyriotate must resonate the host a second time if he wants to take over entirely, and a failure causes the Kyriotate to be expelled. Also note that while the Kyriotate is not *possessing* the human, his dissonance conditions still apply -- the human must end at least as well off as when the Kyriotate first inhabited him. It commits the same number of Forces to inhabit a person as it would to possess him. Kyriotates cannot inhabit animals in this manner. Mercurians: (Restricted) Faith is inspired as much by ministry as by deed. The Intercessionists of Faith are devoted to spreading the word to all who will hear, and often have Roles as priests or ministers. Mercurians of Barbael can use their resonance to see how a person's faith and beliefs intertwines through his relationships -- and whether those relationships conflict with or support a person's faith. Note that the specifics *of* that faith are not revealed by this attunement. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Absolution: It is a fact of life that the past cannot be changed. However, the pain of guilt can cut as deeply as the original sin. With this attunement, the Servitor of Faith can grant absolution and a sense of closure to a troubled soul. If the Servitor can convince a person to confide in him on the matters that weigh down on his soul for at least ten minutes, that person will find himself confessing all of the sins he believes he has committed. At the end of the confession, the Servitor of Faith may touch the person, filling him with a profound sense of absolution and grace. This feeling of warmth and forgiveness buoys the spirit for a number of days equal to the angel's Celestial Forces, unless the recipient commits some other act that seems sinful to him. What the person does after the feeling fades is up to him. Note that even if a Servitor absolves a person who has met their Fate, that Fate is still sealed and the person will be damned unless they meet their Destiny as well. It could be argued that an absolved man may be more willing to seek that Destiny, however. Excommunication: With Faith comes the righteousness of the Lord. At a cost of 2 Essence, the angel may cast out a being in his presence. The target gets a Will roll to resist. If the Will roll is failed, the target will flee from the angel as quickly as they possibly can for a number of minutes equal to the angel's Celestial Forces. DISTINCTIONS Vassal of the Holy Spirit: Alive with the spirit of fellowship, this angel may, once per day, unite up to his Celestial Forces in people in common cause, granting them all +2 to any task related to a single goal until that goal has been met or 24 hours has passed. Friend of the Faithful: This angel may tell, at a glance, if a person devoutly believes in God and Heaven. Master of Divine Authority: Possessed of the majesty of Faith itself, the angel is cloaked in the authority of his position. This angel adds his Celestial Forces to any Emote, Fast Talk or Savoir Faire skill roll he makes. BASIC RITES * Attend a complete religious service of no less than three hours in length. * Engage in an hour long theological discussion. * Quell a religious argument between two believers (not necessarily believes in the same religion, so long as both are Divine.) CHANCE OF INVOCATION: 0 (One must seek Faith. It will not come easily) +1 A holy symbol of a divine religion. +2 A copy of a basic religious text, such as the Holy Bible, Talmud or Qu'ran. +3 A congregation meeting in true religious fellowship. +4 A major cathedral or other religious center. +5 A consecrated altar more than 1,500 years old. +6 Relics (bones) of a Martyr. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 06:58:32 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination "He's recruiting," Azrael said, picking his steps carefully. The boulders and rocks were as the sea and time had left them, so they weren't particularly designed to be walked over. Still, everyone did, making their way from the parking lot down towards the water, seeing where the tidal pools lay, smelling the cold, crisp salt air. "He's gathering his followers." "Only among the Watchers, or among the Children as well?" Soldekai was following, gracefully choosing his path among the stones and water. Azrael didn't mention how incongruous a man wearing Armani looked, down by the bones of the Earth. He was sure Soldekai had no idea, and wouldn't care if he had. The Malakite had other priorities. "Only among the Watchers, so far. He's approached a few of my own Servitors. And gotten them, I'd add. What he's selling they're buying. If I didn't have some non-Grigori--" Soldekai breathed in, sharply. It sounded almost like a hiss. "--among my Angels and helpers, even today, I'd never know it was happening." "Why? Why risk exposure by contacting the Watchers -- and more, recruiting them? He's likely doing things that cause Disturbance while he's at it. He could disappear down here and we'd never find him...." "Like all the other Outcasts?" Azrael asked mildly. "That's not what I mean." Soldekai looked back. "Gog is a fugitive from Heaven. Every Archangel from Judgement to Trade has marked him for destruction. An unparalleled number of celestials are on the Corporeal, searching for any clue. If found, Gog will be facing Laurence, David, Janus and Jordi within moments -- and no matter how strong he is, he will be destroyed. So why isn't he entrenching against that assault?" Azrael closed his eyes, breathing in the heady sea mist, down where the breakers crashed. "Why haven't you signed on with War or Destiny? Or even Faith? Why do you cling to a Superior who is clearly mad and just as clearly won't ever get better?" Soldekai froze. He slowly turned to look at the Archangel of Death. His voice was low, and very measured as he spoke. "We have been friends a long time, Azrael. In the name of that friendship, I will give you an opportunity to recant your words." "And why does she continue to burn and move and follow her insane path," Azrael said, opening his eyes and looking at Soldekai. "And why did I not prostrate myself before a Heaven I still love, leaving my fellow Grigori behind? I could have, you know. I never succumbed to temptations of the flesh. I still haven't. So why did I not protest my outcasting?" Soldekai's stern glare softened. "Why indeed," he asked quietly. "Because we each are serving a higher principle. A higher power. A higher duty. You remain where you are because Gabriel is your Superior, and because she follows the spirit and dictates of God Almighty. You have faith that this is the most just, best course possibly available to you. Gabriel follows the voice within her head, wherever it may lead, regardless of the cost. And I, like all my Choir, swore an oath to stand together and face Judgement as one, and stand there to this day." Azrael looked distantly said. "If I'm right... Gog believes more in his cause than in his survival." "And what is his cause, Azrael?" The ancient Grigori looked the Malakite in the eye. "Pride." Soldekai arched an eyebrow. "That is a deadly sin." "Perhaps so. But it also has a value." The Archangel of Death knelt, lifting a small seagull that had been nestled between two of the stones. Its wing was clearly broken, and the bird was clearly weak. "It would be a deadly sin for me to ignore this small spirit, in pain and suffering, because I was too proud to extend my office and agency to it. Shh... shh... it's almost over little one." He lifted the gull to his lips, kissing gently, and the bird stilled, peacefully. "Fly with Jordi's flock, little one, where your wings will be whole." "So what value does pride have?" "The nobility of spirit that keeps a poor man from stealing. The strength of character that keeps a lustful man from seducing a drunken girl. The sense of responsibility one feels for their fellows. I swore my oath to my fellows, despite knowing their crimes, because my pride as a Grigori--" Soldekai's wince was clearer, this time. "--compelled me to stand with my fellows in their shame. Their sins stained me. That pride compelled me. And Dominic's Judgment fell upon me. And when I am cold, and lonely, and yearning to feel the Light of Heaven upon my face once more, it is pride that keeps me from Falling... that keeps me serving my Word and my mission, that gives me the strength to carry on and serve the Lord." Soldekai nodded. "I understand." "Then understand this... it has been tens of thousands of years since the Grigori were Outcast. In that time, we have tried to serve, to atone, to survive. But it has been so very hard. Our Heavenly brothers hunt us -- the Davidians almost made sport of it, once upon a time. When our Vessels are killed, we find ourselves in Limbo. The terrible, horrible, emptiness of Limbo. When we claw our way free, we are alone and cold in a world we often do not recognize. At any given time... there are less than fifty of us free of Limbo. There were thousands of Grigori--" "Azrael," Soldekai said quietly. "Please... 'watchers.' The name of your Choir--" "I know," Azrael replied, not unsympathetically. "The Host believes that the word Grigori causes harm to the Symphony. You do not speak our name in Heaven -- the name given to us by Yves -- out of shame and superstition. I *am* a Grigori, Soldekai. If the word damaged the Symphony, even the tiniest bit, I would hear it." Azrael shook his head mournfully. "And you wonder why Gog recruits my brothers... and why they follow?" "What does he offer?" "In rumors? He offers hope. He offers the world. He offers security. It's even said he has a way to keep a vessel-killed Grigori from Limbo. As for what they want... I don't yet know their plan. I only know one thing." "What is that?" Azrael looked out over the ocean once more, still cradling the small, dead bird. "I know he frightens me. Song too was frightened -- she has gone to ground, as hidden as any Dark Grigori, and seems to be waiting it out. I have not and will not hide from him... but that may easily mean my doom, unless I join him." "Will you? Join with him, I mean." "I honestly don't know." Azrael looked back at Soldekai. "I suppose it depends how many innocent 'Watchers' are sent to Limbo by the Host during this search. After all, the safest Watcher is a stilled one. Isn't that right?" Soldekai didn't answer, looking away. "I have to get back." "Tell them, Soldekai. Warn them." The Archangel of Death stared intently at him. "Warn them that the Judged may yet judge, and that Heaven would not like their verdict." - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 06:06:14 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Like the rest of the saga, this is really, really cool. I especially loved the stuff about Pride; would you mind if I paraphrased a bit of Azrael's defense of it for a description of Backwards-Lucifer? However, I do have one nit to pick: > "I know," Azrael replied, not unsympathetically. "The Host believes > that the word Grigori causes harm to the Symphony. You do not speak our Huh? 'Grigori' is not an uncommon word among mundanes. It must be one of the most common 'occult' angelic myths of all. Dogma, Prophecy II, a bunch of stuff by Neil Gaiman, not to mention every Bible scholar who has read the Book of Enoch, which can be picked up at Chapters or any other large bookstore. It's not really a good candidate for a Lovecraftian 'Word that Must Not Be Spoken, Left To Die In The Silent Dust Of History'. - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 10:19:53 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Candi, Demon of Blonde > I already feel soooo sorry for Candi. I don't, I suspect that she will remain happily oblivious. As the saying goes, "Fate favors fools and children." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:47:40 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 08:06 AM, Julian Mensch wrote: > >> "I know," Azrael replied, not unsympathetically. "The Host believes >> that the word Grigori causes harm to the Symphony. You do not speak >> our > > Huh? 'Grigori' is not an uncommon word among mundanes. > It must be one of the most common 'occult' angelic myths > of all. Very true. However, In Nomine Core Book, p.105, states "The Seraphim Council believes even speaking the name of the Grigori disturbs the Symphony -- they refer to them as the Watchers, since that was their original duty." As you say, the word 'Grigori' isn't uncommon when discussing angels, so this practice is clearly a superstition (or, perhaps more darkly, a rumor spread by the Seraphim Council as propaganda to help keep sympathetic angels from questioning the Judgment of the Eighth Choir) that has cropped up in the thousands of years since the Outcasting. Which would deeply add insult to injury, especially to a Watcher who accepted his Outcasting despite never having committed the sins of which the Choir was accused. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:49:43 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 08:06 AM, Julian Mensch wrote: > Like the rest of the saga, this is really, really > cool. I especially loved the stuff about Pride; would > you mind if I paraphrased a bit of Azrael's defense > of it for a description of Backwards-Lucifer? > Oh, and please feel free. I thought up a lot of this when developing the very first homebrew Superior I ever wrote -- Akim, the Elohite Archangel of Pride (http://www.annotations.com/innomine/characters/superiors/akim.html -- not the best Superior writeup I've done, but also not the worst.) If there's anything there that can help, feel free. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:20 +0100 (BST) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Faith (from: The Glory of Islam) In article , mgerber@eyrie.org (Matthew Gerber) wrote: > (Obscure idea seed for the computer geek crowd. Does P=NP in Heaven? > What about in Hell? How much does it matter? Has someone done this one > already?) Well, yes. But in real life. There is a story, probably apocryphal, about one of the first physicists to work seriously on turbulence - which is not a subject that's easy to understand or model. At the end of a long life, when he was dying, one of his friends reminded him of the idea that when you go to heaven - which wasn't felt to be in doubt in his case - and meet God, you are allowed to ask Him one question, which He will answer truthfully. The great man thought about this and said that he'd ask what had been the truth of some trivial incident in his childhood which had always bothered him. "But, I thought you would ask about turbulence!" exclaimed the visitor. "I wouldn't want to embarrass God on a first meeting." came the reply. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:11:39 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination I can't believe I missed the canon on the Grigori's name! Sorry about calling you on that! > (http://www.annotations.com/innomine/characters/superiors/akim.html) I've read this. Great stuff. > If there's anything there that can help, feel free. Thank you graciously. - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2818 ********************************