in_nomine-digest Monday, October 14 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2820 In this digest: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: IN> And the last shall be first... IN> INverse Superior: Makatiel, Elohite Archangel of Life Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: Barbael, Kyriotate Archangel of Faith (was Re: IN> Faith Varient Archangels of) IN> AA of Pride Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: Barbael, Kyriotate Archangel of Faith (was Re: IN> Faith Varient Archangels of) Re: Barbael, Kyriotate Archangel of Faith (was Re: IN> Faith Varient Archangels of) Re: IN> Phillipi, Former Mercurian of Fire Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) IN> Somewhat OT post -- 'Spirited Away' Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:09:59 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination > a Grigori if he found him, since they're still calling in the alarms when > demons do Bad Things), it's likely that the Grigori tendency (in my > fiction/stuff if nothing else) to focus on David and his Angels as their > primary persecutors is exaggerated. > > At the same time... I kind of like the idea that there's a group of angels > accused of being hardliners, overly harsh, known for excessive force and > terrible treatment of others... and it *not* be the Dominicans, for once. Eh... I really dislike David, and his write-up scares me sorta. Dominic? I feel sorry for the guy, I don't mind Dominicans at all. The only angels I really hate are David and Jean, the both of them disgust me. > > Mm. There's an adventure seed there. A triad being dispatched to > investigate the excessive force and intimidation of one of the Watchers by > a distincted Davidian who doesn't see anything wrong with removing a > Watcher from a neighborhood he's been assigned to with extreme force... > > Yeah, I can imagine a Blockhead treating a Grigori like that... try to do their job, and they get hunted for sport. Jerks. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:38:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> And the last shall be first... - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > I'm not sure what just happened here, but it was cool o.o That's Mariel, who also underwent the change. My question is, where's Meserach? Or was he too lazy to change? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:40:58 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: IN> INverse Superior: Makatiel, Elohite Archangel of Life (heres my next Superior for INverse. Critiques, as always, welcome and desired. Hope this didn't gain "weight" in the post... e_e;) Makatiel, Elohite Archangel of Life "The world is alive with beauty and wonder, it must never die." Makatiel was an Elohite of Light that was created a while after the Fall by Lucifer, and after many years of dedicated service and excellent objectivity, he was granted the Word of his choice by the Lightbringer, becoming the Archangel of Life and leader of the House of Peace. Makatiel is one of the most powerful Elohim in existence, as his Word draws upon the forces of the corporeal plane and it's inhabitants. He has dedicated himself to promoting life and better living, and to the destruction of all undead. He works to fight the minions of Azrael, Skulker Demon Prince of Death, and to stop the destruction of life the other Princes promote. Makatiel seems to contradict his position as leader of the House of Peace with his desire to destroy undead, but he firmly holds the True belief that the undead are a desecration of the corporeal and the Symphony, and they must be removed from the earth, lest more and more of them spawn. The Demons of Death are sworn foes of the Angels of Life. *Dissonance* To corporeally kill anything that has Forces and is alive, intentionally or by direct accident. Angels of Life may not kill even demons in vessels. Celestially killing is not dissonant, but still frowned upon unless there was dire need. Note however, that the undead do -not- count as being alive... *Choir Attunements* Seraphim: The Most Holy that serve Makatiel may bring things back from the dead, as long as it's not human, has less than 5 Forces, and did not die of natural causes. This includes plants. For every Force that the target possesses, the Seraph must spend one Essence. So to bring back a 3 Force animal, the Seraph would have to spend 3 Essence. In addition, this must be done within the subject’s Corporeal Forces hours of the death. If used on an undead, it will cause Body hits equal to 3 times the amount of Essence spent. This ability can be used on corporeal creatures only; it cannot bring back those who have suffered soul death... Cherubim: When a Guardian of Life attunes to a human, they may spend Essence equal to the Forces of their attuned plus 4 to create a powerful lifeline. The attuned of the Cherub cannot suffer corporeal death as long as the Cherub themselves are still alive and attuned to them. The attuned can be mangled, hurt and nearly torn to pieces, but will stay together at a minimum of one Body hit. This connection lasts for the Cherub's Corporeal Forces in minutes, and can only be used once a day. Ofanim: The Wheels of Life live true to their name- they have an intrinsic understanding of the circle of life and death. With a Perception roll and 4 Essence, the Ofanite may look at one person and know when they were born, how well they have lived, and how much longer until they estimatively die, barring celestial interference. Note that if it is a celestial in a vessel, the Ofanite will receive their Role's information, or if the celestial has no current role, a blank slate. Elohim: When these Elohim touch a dead body, they will know the last emotion the soul felt before it went on it's final journey, and get a brief flash of what caused the subjects death ("by water" or "by weapon"). Note that if the Elohite touches an undead, he will get the final emotion before the ceremony began, and the cause of death will be listed as "by supernatural means"! Malakim: You would think there would be a lack of Malakim in Makatiel's service. Not true. While not exactly rushing to his service, a decent number of Virtues are in Life's organization. When a demon directly threatens the life of a human, the Malakite can add her Corporeal Forces to any weapon skill she uses against the demon, in order to subdue him. You would be surprised about how many Malakim get off on the feeling of thrashing a demon with a wiffleball bat, to within an inch of his life, and then turning him over to the Malakim of Valor or Fury. And then watching. Bright Lilim: Gifters of Life can sense Needs that would serve to directly better the physical and mental life of the target. Kyriotates: These Kyrio's can possess dead bodies, and this will restore the corpse to the condition it was in right before it died. When the Kyriotate abandons the body, it will return to it's "normal" state. Mercurian: Already able to sense the intricate webs that flow through the lives of an individual, these Friends can now use their resonance on anything that is living, from trees to animals to humans, and sense their relations with one another. The Mercurian can now use his resonance on -anything- living if he wishes, but only to a check digit of 2! Grigori: The reproductive power of the Grigori extends itself to all things when they serve Life. Anyone the Grigori breeds with will become fully fertile, even if they are impotent/barren to begin with, the union will always produce a child. In addition, if the Grigori is in an animal vessel, they can procreate with other animals of the same breed, creating some interesting creatures... (Ask some of them about Kittens of the Grigori, or Nephallim chipmunks) Ethereals: Spirits that serve Makatiel will always have a vessel at hand to use, and are immune to potential Force loss from Trauma, although repeated abuse or loss of the vessels provided will upset the Archangel of Life considerably. *Servitor Attunements* 1-up: With a successful Will roll, the angel may actively sacrifice their own vessel in order to sustain the life of another celestial's vessel. When the Will roll is made, a link is created between the angel and his target. When his target suffers vessel-death, they will immediately revive to full Body hits, and the angel who used the attunement vessel will dissipate, and he will go back to his Heart. Lifelight: For 3 Essence, the angel may create a sphere of pulsing light that burns undead away. Any undead within range of the angel and the sphere (which stays overhead the angel) will suffer one Body hit every second until they cover themselves with a thick, opaque material, or leave the area of the sphere. The sphere lasts for the angel’s Celestial Forces in minutes. This is actually a joint attunement made by Lucifer, Makatiel, and Saminga to combat the problem of undead, and is freely given out to both Servitors of Light and Transcendence, but remains in the domain of Life (Servitors of Light and Transcendence may take this attunement for 5 points, instead of the usual 10 for a non-Superior attunement). *Distinctions* Vassal of Health: With a Perception roll, the angel can see the current physical condition of someone he is looking at. This is indicated by an aura around the target. White indicates perfect health; green means good, yellow means some damage, orange means severe damage, and red means fatal damage. Undead will have an aura also, but it will be tinted with blackness. Friend of the Corporeal: The angel now has an aura of powerful Life around him, and everything in his vicinity will be affected by this. If the angel in near any human who is dying of unnatural causes, the human will stay on the verge of death until they are treated, or are damaged even further. This does not make the human immune to death- it only stops them from dying of whatever hurt them. If someone actively attacks the human, he can still be killed. Note also that wherever the angel goes, dying plants and animals will seem to spring back to life and good health, and the undead will become -very- uncomfortable. Master of Life: Eternally bound to the power of Life, these angels no longer suffer Trauma, or even the problem of corporeal death! When killed, these angels will automatically assume celestial form instead of going to their Heart. They may automatically ascend to Heaven without disturbance (this must be done immediately or the effect is lost), jump to another vessel they have in a bodybag, or stay in celestial form. *Higher Distinctions* Knights of Life: This is a small group of celestials that serve Makatiel’s Word by assisting women who are giving birth. By expending 1 Essence, these angels can ensure that anyone they are assisting giving birth will have little pain and no complications, the child will always come out alive and healthy (unless they are born with a birth defect). These angels hang around hospitals all the time, or practice as midwives, ensuring that Life continues with no complications or disaster for the mother. *Relations* Allied: Genubath (Healing), Saminga (Transcendence) Associated: Fluerity (Medicine), Lucifer (Light), Vapula (Science) Neutral: Everyone else Hostile: Belial (Fury), Baal (Valor), Valefor (Chaos) Enemy: No one *Basic Rites* -Save someone’s life -Raise a garden -Assist a birth -Put an undead to "rest" Chance of Invocation: 1 Makatiel is not around much; the mighty Elohite has the whole world to attend to. Servitors of Life are expected to keep people alive and safe from celestial harm, kill undead with extreme prejudice, and keep Servitors of Death from doing bad things. It's a fine line they walk, but with the aid of the angels of Saminga and Genubath, it's a little easier. *Invocation Modifier* +1 Anything with one Corporeal Force +2 100 or more living people +3 A ritual to turn a living being undead +4 A human with 4 or more Corporeal Forces +5 The congregation of 100 or more undead +6 A dying Superior --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:43:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > Yeah, I can imagine a Blockhead treating a Grigori like > that... try to do > their job, and they get hunted for sport. Jerks. Ummm... aren't we forgetting something here? Like Stone's Dissonance condition? Unless the Stonie is willing to eat the Dissonance, he can't do anything unless the Watcher hits first. It's also safe to conclude that becoming Dissonant by disobeying the boss's prime directive is not something that David looks kindly upon. That kinda inhibits hunting anybody for sport, including demons. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:56:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: Barbael, Kyriotate Archangel of Faith (was Re: IN> Faith Varient Archangels of) My $0.02: - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > It is said that > Servitors of Faith walked with Martin Luther King when he > made > nonviolent protests an act of faith, and said that > Servitors of Faith > rode with Suicide Bombers on buses in Jerusalem. I have major problems with this (though I admit personal bias). The suicide bombers cited here acted out of what I would call dogma or fanaticism rather than faith. > Cherubim: As expressions of Divine Love and Compassion, > bound to the > very concept of Faith, the Cherubim of Barbael are > literally the answer > to humanity's prayers. Whenever a mortal makes a sincere > prayer for > Heavenly intervention -- for any purpose, worthy or not > -- a Cherub of > Faith has a chance to hear that prayer the same way they > hear disturbance. Sweet! I wish I'd thought of this. > Kyriotates: (Restricted) It is said that faith can > inspire great deeds, > and the Dominations of Faith embody this simple truth. At > the > Kyriotate's discretion, when possessing a sentient > person, the > Kyriotate can choose to inhabit the person but not > control their mind. > The person cannot communicate with the angel within him, > and still has > complete control over his actions. Hmmm... very similar, this, to the Attunement I wrote up for Kyrios of Communication. The way you've written it here is very appropriate for Faith. > Mercurians: (Restricted) Faith is inspired as much by > ministry as by > deed. The Intercessionists of Faith are devoted to > spreading the word > to all who will hear, and often have Roles as priests or > ministers. > Mercurians of Barbael can use their resonance to see how > a person's > faith and beliefs intertwines through his relationships > -- and whether > those relationships conflict with or support a person's > faith. I like, I like! > Absolution: It is a fact of life that the past cannot be > changed. > However, the pain of guilt can cut as deeply as the > original sin. With > this attunement, the Servitor of Faith can grant > absolution and a sense of closure to a troubled soul. Also nice. I especially like the well-defined limitations of this Attunement. > DISTINCTIONS > Vassal of the Holy Spirit: Alive with the spirit of > fellowship, this > angel may, once per day, unite up to his Celestial Forces > in people in > common cause, granting them all +2 to any task related to > a single goal > until that goal has been met or 24 hours has passed. > > Friend of the Faithful: This angel may tell, at a glance, > if a person > devoutly believes in God and Heaven. These should be flipped IMO; the Vassal Distinction seems powerful enough to be a Friend Distinction while the Friend Distinction strikes me as more Vassal-level. > Master of Divine Authority: Possessed of the majesty of > Faith itself, > the angel is cloaked in the authority of his position. > This angel adds > his Celestial Forces to any Emote, Fast Talk or Savoir > Faire skill roll he makes. Why not just a simple Charisma bonus? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:03:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> AA of Pride Oooooo... I like this a lot. [swipes!] =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:04:51 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination > Ummm... aren't we forgetting something here? Like > Stone's Dissonance condition? Unless the Stonie is willing > to eat the Dissonance, he can't do anything unless the > Watcher hits first. It's also safe to conclude that > becoming Dissonant by disobeying the boss's prime directive > is not something that David looks kindly upon. That kinda > inhibits hunting anybody for sport, including demons. Yes, I know that's very true ^_^ I just felt like badmouthing David and his goons :D --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:20:24 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: Barbael, Kyriotate Archangel of Faith (was Re: IN> Faith Varient Archangels of) On Monday, October 14, 2002, at 05:56 PM, Michael Walton wrote: > I have major problems with this (though I admit personal > bias). The suicide bombers cited here acted out of what I > would call dogma or fanaticism rather than faith. > Truth be told, you're supposed to have a major problem with this. Barbael is meant to be inclusionary to the point of active disturbance. Much as Laurence and Dominic are disturbed at Barbael's support of Unitarianism, others are disturbed at Barbael's peaceful acceptance of martyrdom and destructive fanaticism. If Khalid is disturbing for his advocacy of a specific religion as advocacy of the Archangel of Faith... Barbael is disturbing because she can see the viewpoint of *all* of them. (Well, all of them that have at the least a core Theism, or a central divinity figure.) Barbael wasn't presented as better than Khalid. Merely a variant on. I'm actively looking forward to Matt Gerber's alternate Elohite interpretation, in a similar vein. >> Whenever a mortal makes a sincere prayer for Heavenly intervention -- >> for any purpose, worthy or not -- a Cherub of Faith has a chance to >> hear that prayer the same way they hear disturbance. > > Sweet! I wish I'd thought of this. > I know no better praise. >> DISTINCTIONS >> Vassal of the Holy Spirit: Alive with the spirit of fellowship, this >> angel may, once per day, unite up to his Celestial Forces in people >> in common cause, granting them all +2 to any task related to a single >> goal until that goal has been met or 24 hours has passed. >> >> Friend of the Faithful: This angel may tell, at a glance, >> if a person devoutly believes in God and Heaven. > > These should be flipped IMO; the Vassal Distinction seems > powerful enough to be a Friend Distinction while the Friend > Distinction strikes me as more Vassal-level. > Works that way too. There are a couple of ways of looking at the Distinctions -- one is a sliding scale of power, which is certainly appropriate. It's possibly even intended that way. However, I like the concept of each Distinction reflecting its title. A Vassal is a servant. A Friend is a companion. A Master is a commander. So, I gave the Vassals something to subordinate to, and a means to then express that -- the descent of the Holy Spirit upon a given task. A Friend is just that, and able to tell instantly if their Friend has Faith or lacks it. And a Master has the authority of his position. >> Master of Divine Authority: Possessed of the majesty of >> Faith itself, >> the angel is cloaked in the authority of his position. >> This angel adds >> his Celestial Forces to any Emote, Fast Talk or Savoir >> Faire skill roll he makes. > > Why not just a simple Charisma bonus? > Aesthetics, mostly. There is something that makes you want to believe the Master's words, acts or position. Plus, you'll notice the Master *can't* apply his Distinction bonus to Seduction. Glad you liked! - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:38:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: Barbael, Kyriotate Archangel of Faith (was Re: IN> Faith Varient Archangels of) - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > However, I like the concept of each Distinction > reflecting its title. A > Vassal is a servant. A Friend is a companion. A Master is > a commander. !!! I had not thought of this! That _is_ good. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:51:52 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Phillipi, Former Mercurian of Fire From: "Josh Moger" > > Now explain Catbert. Djinn of the Game with the Nearsighted Discord. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:39:29 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination >Eh... I really dislike David, and his write-up scares me sorta. Dominic? I >feel sorry for the guy, I don't mind Dominicans at all. The only angels I >really hate are David and Jean, the both of them disgust me. Why? I mean, I'll be honest, David's not my favorite Archangel -- but this is largely for interpretive reasons. (I think he did better work as a Cherub, to be honest, and like to play Stonies with a more reserved, quiet air than a gleeful, beat-up-demons culture.) But Jean *is* in the running for my favorite Archangel, assuming we take Yves as a given quantity that "favorite" doesn't really apply to. He's an inspirer, an academe, though he can be warlike when necessary. The three Archangels Yves is Associated with are the three 'inspirers': Blandine, Jean, and Gabriel. (Id, ego, superego?) That's definitely a plus in my book. Let me phrase this trying to make sure this doesn't devolve into "Your Favorite Archangel Sucks! No, Yours Does!" What do people have against Jean? He's not Khalid, and he's certainly not Vapula. I'm curious as to what people find so awful about him. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:15:09 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) << Let me phrase this trying to make sure this doesn't devolve into "Your Favorite Archangel Sucks! No, Yours Does!" What do people have against Jean? He's not Khalid, and he's certainly not Vapula. I'm curious as to what people find so awful about him. >> Personally, I actually like Jean. I think the reason that people don't, though, is because of his somewhat paternalistic attitude towards human technological development -- he gets to decide what humans should and should not know. In my eyes, though, he's absolutely the kind of person I would *want* making those decisions, unlike, say, nutjob Gabriel deciding who gets flambe'd today on account of cruelty. Of course, other people may differ; the AAs are colorful iconic architypes, and they rub different people differently. For the record, and these are just my personal opinions with no real objectivity in sight. Remember, please, that I'm talking about personal impressions that fictional people make on _us_, not objective discussions of their good and evil. I'm really curious which AAs most people find to be sympathetic or not, and more importantly their reasons. I tend to sympathize the most with (truly just versions of) Dominic, Jean, Raphael, Yves, Nybbas, (sympthetic/redeemed/ SSO/list-myth) Lilith and to a lesser extent Michael. My all time favourite AA, I think, would have to be a tie between Marc (whose Word is the only one that inherantly acknowledges that worldly things and self-interest aren't evil unless used unjustly) and the sympathetic versions of Dominic (who, like Lilith, comes in two versions so comp- letely distinct as to be different people) who believes very strongly, as I do, in objective right and wrong, and in the need for (just) punishment for the sake of justice, rather then only rehabilitation and the protection of society. I love how Moe writes Marc as Heaven's spymaster, and how Whistling wrote him as the competant, practical and level- headed voice of the Peace Faction in QoH, the perfect counterpart to Novalis' empathic appeal. Since reading that, my own Peace Faction never seems complete unless we have both Novalis (the heart) and Marc (the mind) at the helm. Also, I loved the wry observation way back when in the crazy Malakim thread that Marc was the only truly well-adjusted AA in Heaven, at least by human standards. And I adore both Justinian and Bronwen. As to who rubs me wrong? I've always been prejudiced against Eli, who (*entirely subjective here*) resonates entirely too closely with the kind of guy who goes from town to town (or club to club) getting girls knocked up and then taking off rather then addressing the conseq- uences of his actions. I'm not saying that an AA should not be allowed to resign formally if they want, but going AWOL from the organization that represents objective good in the universe, and leaving thousands of angels who have either pledged themselves to your Word or are as close as the Host gets to real children in the lurch... that's just loathsome. Canon Lilith squicks me a lot. She is the ultimate collaborator, the figure who abetts unspeakable evil and then tries to wash her hands of moral responsibility by semantics. She always reminds me of the Catholic Church refusing to condemn the Holocaust, or the American government blissfully ignoring the effect things like NAFTA have on the common people of poorer countries. She sells her own daughters into indentured servitude, and makes a mockery of her Word. Lilith is, at least in canon, She Who Fulfills The Princes' Needs. Do you really believe that Baal doesn't Need suicide bombers, Malphas doesn't Need wetwork, Saminga doesn't Need nerve gas, Vapula doesn't Need test subjects or Andre doesn't Need a regular supply of 12-year-olds? Of course, all the Princes' Need more and more souls to reach Hell for eternal torment, which given both the numbers and the nature of Hellish torment, tends to make her rather worse then the staff of Belsen. And still, she claims to be just a neutral party... yuck. (Besides, even if it's not canon, we all know she does unspeakable things to little babies and pregnant mothers on the side.) (I quite like Bright/fluffy Lilith, though. The whole rebellion against an unjust God thing appeals to me, the Word of Freedom is very sympathetic, the different takes on her psychology are fascinating, and the whole "ultimate male sex fantasy" thing might play a tiny part too.) Jordi rubs me very wrongly for reasons I've brought up on the list before. Unlike most of the others, who are just unsympathetic, but remain interesting and thematically useful characters, I'd rather he were not in the game at all. But this has been discussed at length before, so I'll not bring it up again. I like Nybbas a lot, and I like his supposedly demonic word too. I know that there's a dark side to the Media, but I tend to honestly believe it's overwhelmingly outweighed by the Bright side, and from much of what I've read about the place, the Sleazy Producer of Hollywood (tm) is very much in the minority now (as opposed to a time as soon past as the 1980s). And Michael gets credit for me for fully embracing the architype of masculenity without being either a caricature and a dolt, or a murderously callous scumbag who seems to get a real power kick out of hurting people (see: any action movie hero, especially Tom Cruise in MI2). Julian's Subjective Relations: :) Allied: Marc, Dominic Associated: Raphael, Nybbas, Michael, Jean, Yves Neutral: Everybody Else Angelic Hostile: Everybody Else Demonic, Jordi, Eli Enemy: Lilith, Kobal, Magog, Andre Wow... I wrote entirely more than I should have about a basically fluff topic. Please remember that I'm not making statements about Superiors' morality or worth to the game; just commenting on how their actions and personalities rub off on me, as Sirea was. I'm curious to what others' preferances are... - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:48:55 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: IN> Somewhat OT post -- 'Spirited Away' http://www.spiritedaway.net If I might beg the indulgence of the list as I gush about something totally OT -- if anyone here has not yet seen "Spirited Away" in the theater, then *do* so. Made by the same creator as 'Princess Mononoke', It is an absolutely amazing film, wonderfully animated and wonderfully characterized. To anyone who plays with the Brightness knob turned up, this is a movie that will do tremendous amounts to set the mood. The protagonist is a ten-year old girl, whose parents take a wrong turn driving down a 'short cut' and end up Under The Hill, or the Japanese equivalent. Unwisely, as is often the case of parents in children's movies, they eat the food. *bamf*. Now they're pigs, and young Chihiro is trapped in the spirit world. After considerable difficulty, she manages to obtain a job at the local bathhouse for spirits, and transforms from a typical spoiled ten-year old who's never worked a day in her life to a brave, loyal, kind-hearted young lady who -- armed with absolutely no special powers or talents whatsoever -- still manages to daunt and/or win the respect of the mightiest of spirits and sorcerers, free her parents and herself, and get them all back home. Of course, she meets people along the way who help, but help is all they can do... the things that truly matter, only she can do alone. I can't recommend this movie highly enough. The characterization is almost Bujold level -- the protagonist starts out as realistically unsympathetic as any sulky brat that age, rapidly grows on you as you empathize more and more with her situation (and as she grows to meet it), and reaches such a level that you eventually want to leap through the fourth wall with black wings and blazing sword, screaming "WHO DARES TROUBLE THIS INNOCENT CHILD?!? REPENT, YE SELFISH ETHEREALS! REPENT OR FACE HOLY WRATH THE LIKES OF WHICH HATH NOT BEEN SEEN SINCE THE FALL OF LEGION!" (Honestly, these guys are so glad that Christopher didn't exist in their cosmology -- he'd have nuked their bathhouse before the end of the first reel. Heck, *Novalis* would want to toast some of these people.) The sad thing is, I didn't discover this movie's existence until it's last week of release... come this Friday, it's out of the theaters. And it's in *extremely* limited release -- only 16-26 or so screens nationwide. You'll need to hit moviefone.com or the movie's own website to look up the nearest one. Sorry I couldn't get the word out sooner! Appended are some Archangel Movie Reviews -- if you don't see one, I couldn't think of anything. Blandine -- *sighs beatifically* "Isn't it wonderful? Such a lovely dream, with the highest of values. A trifle much on a couple of the images, but all in all I'd recommend it most highly for any but the smallest of children. And yes, it was all done up with the animism and mythology of the August Prosperity Collective, but if it inspires the right kind of thoughts so powerfully then should we really quibble so over a few measly trickles of Essence?" Christopher -- "Those Ethereals are /so/ lucky that they're only movie characters. If I knew of any such events really happening anywhere within the Marches..." *fumes*. " But oh, imagine the world where all children were like that!" *sighs* David -- "It started out bad. Too slow, and she kept wanting others to bail her out. But she learned to endure, and endured much. And she never struck first. I like her." Dominic -- "Everything kept /switching around/. Was the old witch Just or Unjust? Was her twin sister really her in disguise? Why did her fellow floor-scrubber go from Selfish to Selfless? That and more. This movie raised many questions and gave me a Seraphic headache not answering. Still, I must say I wish more humans were that honest and diligent. And Eli? Yes, well done, but don't think that it excuses you." Eli -- *smiles tiredly, raises one thumb* "Man, am I /beat/. Hope you liked it, guys." Marc -- *chuckles* "How can I not like a movie that spends so much time kicking Mammon where it hurts? I especially liked that walking parable of infectious Greed (or was it Gluttony? Maybe a two-fer?) and how a fair trade and a selfless gift cured it that they put in the middle, even if it did have too much gratuitous slime injury. And the scene at the end with the old witch and the contract..." *laughs* Michael -- "What, you expect me to go thumbs down just because there weren't any fight scenes? Get real. This movie was *full* of them -- if you're aware that not all battles are physical. She fought *everything* there was to fight in this movie, most of it inside herself... and she stomped 'em all flatter than Haagenti's head. That kid had the right stuff in spades, and if they ever write a sequel I'm sure it'll show her up growing up into one of the greatest of Heroes. 'Cause where it counts, she already is. If this is the kind of stuff Eli took off to get done, then forget what I said about the AWOL. More like 'detached duty'." Novalis -- "Every single confrontation in the movie was not settled by mindless violence, but by compassion /without/ mindless acceptance! Selflessness and trust! Innocence without naivete! The power of love overcoming greed, fear, and doubt! And the prime lesson of all, that if one remains true to one's self and one's values, one can make it all come out right in the end." *sniffles happily* "Thank you oh so *very* much, Eli. And thank /you/, Mr. Miyazaki." Zadkiel -- "If you only knew how badly I wanted to jump through the Fourth Wall and..." *chorus of voices* "Who says you'd get to go first?!?" - -- Chuckg PS -- Nybbas must be *killing* himself that this somehow made it out with the label of the Mouse House on it. (Disney had nothing to do with making the original, but it's handling the American release and had Pixar do the English dubbing.) It's just too damn good, too full of insight, and too full of everything. And I think I know where Eli is. He's in Japan, writing anime, or at the very least helping somebody do it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:09:47 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) >Julian's Subjective Relations: :) > Allied: Marc, Dominic > Associated: Raphael, Nybbas, Michael, Jean, Yves > Neutral: Everybody Else Angelic > Hostile: Everybody Else Demonic, Jordi, Eli > Enemy: Lilith, Kobal, Magog, Andre Hey, I think this is kind of neat. Lemme see... William's Subjective relations: Allied: Yves, Jean, Laurence [1] Associated: Blandine, Gabriel, Marc, Novalis Neutral: Everybody Else Angelic Hostile: Everybody Demonic Except Enemy: Saminga, Baal, Belial, Vapula [2] [1] Yves and Jean because I identify with them. Laurence because he's The Boss. Frankly, if Jean told me to do something and The Commaber of God's Armies told me to do something else, I'd be miserable for a bit and then do what Laurence said. [2] Saminga because I hate death. Baal because he's The Boss. Belial for what he does to Gabriel. Vapula because I identify with him, dammit, so kudos to whoever(s) wrote him. Everytime I read his extended writeup I get a vague sense of sadness at how possible it all is, strongly flavored with "there but for the grace of God go I." Good provocative writing. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:35:16 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors Michael -- One of my two #1 favorites. The idealized alpha male without being an idiot. His integrity and absolute willingness to never yield are admirable, even if they can also be annoying. I see him also as the warrior with depth, having a deeply-masked vulnerable side that fully realizes both the necessity and the tragedy of war. Novalis -- Tied for first with Michael as my most favorite, I... heck, how can you help but love her? Empathy, compassion, intelligence, patience, wit -- and all of it in a Symphony that far too often seems like it values anything but the above. For sheer endurance, she's up there with Michael and David. And a universe without Flowers would be just as horrible, if in the exact opposite manner, as a universe without (Divine) War. David -- I can respect him highly at the same time I want to knock some sense into his thick head. And personally, he leaves me cold. Not wrong, but... sometimes misguided. Laurence -- One of my other most favorite Archangels, if not in the #1 slot. Perfect honor and perfect dutifulness deserves its just praise, and I hope that he ventually builds the world where he's not the only one. Fortunately, Heaven being Heaven, said world should still have room for all the fun too. (And if it doesn't? Then *cue screams* *cue organ music*) I also agree that he's a better Commander of the Host than Michael. Michael's the best there is at what he does, but what he does isn't herding cats. Dominic -- I feel sorry for him. He has one of the most thankless jobs in all existence, and the load he's carrying is killing him. Yet he still carries it. Everything I feel about Dominic can be summed up in that one scene from Lois McMaster Bujold's novel _Memory_, where Chief of Imperial Security Simon Illyan has just successfully uncovered one of his most highly regarded (and highly skilled) subordinates' falsification of a report to cover up a misdeed. [quote] "God save me," he said sadly, "from another such victory." [/quote] Of course, if you're using a version of Dominic that has no pity or mercy (he might not be able to /act/ on it, but he'd horrify me if he didn't at least /have/ some) and no such weariness at the tragedy of his duties, then feel free to roast that one with his own cape. Christopher -- I feel neutrally about him. To me, he's not a person, he's just a plot device. Gabriel -- I'm with Moe. The refusal of the other Archangels to pitch in and /help/, dammit, is one of IN's worst unresolved plot hooks. It's just plain OOC, IMO. (Of course, since the core rulebooks have to CDaU a lot of things in order to allow DM's creative freedom, they *can't* resolve it.) Personally, though? She scares the heck out of me. Blandine -- I want certain other Archangels to give her more help, more thanks, and less problems. I also want her to be given some /happiness/, dammit. But not with Redeemed Beleth. As far as I'm concerned, she's long since thrown away her chances. OTOH, Blandine could stand to get just a /little/ lower down from the peak of that ivory tower she perches on. Her friend Novalis has the right idea... remain true to yourself, but meet 'em halfway. Marc -- Very level-headed, intelligent guy. I react to him like I'd react to a thoroughly competent, utterly trustworthy family lawyer -- he might not be a buddy or somebody I warm up to, and we might not associate outside of business matters, but I'd be *really* grateful I knew him and *damn* sorry to lose him. Eli -- The true nature and activities of Eli being CDaU, so's my opinion of him. Give me a version, I'll give you a reaction. Zadkiel -- The kind of loyal sidekick and best friend everybody wishes they had. Jordi -- Same way I'd feel about a majestic alpha wolf in the wild -- maybe beautiful or inspiring to look at, sometimes pleasant to contemplate the ideal of... and nothing I'd want anywhere near me without solid bars between us. Jean -- so he's not a people person. He's competent, reliable, and never misses deadline, and is perfectly comfortable with who and what he is and doesn't have any personal issues to screw up his performance. There are worse people to know, especially ones who run your IT department. If I missed any and you want to hear 'em, ask. This is just off the top of my head. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2820 ********************************