in_nomine-digest Tuesday, October 15 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2821 In this digest: Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors IN> And those who remained unchanged... Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) IN> Scorecard IN> New Discord RE: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) Re: IN> Somewhat OT post -- 'Spirited Away' Re: IN> INverse Superior: Makatiel, Elohite Archangel of Life Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors Re: IN> Somewhat OT post -- 'Spirited Away' RE: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination IN> A Memorandum To The Seraphim Council Re: IN> A Memorandum To The Seraphim Council Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:48:54 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors Hm. All right. My carefully considered Personal Relations chart... I like all of them. What? No, what? Why are you looking at me like that? Seriously, now. I kind of look at them through the writer's filter, and pretty much all of them have hooks that can be made into some fun stories/games, and that's what I want. I'm at heart a complete and utter bastard, so I don't mind having Malphas shatter all that is good and holy, or Dominic come down hard (but fair) on a sympathetic character. I'm also at heart a romantic and like happy endings, so I enjoy having Michael go tearing through the Gates of Hell swinging, and Laurence leading the charge that both wins the war and proves he's the best at what I do. My favorites? Alaemon and Litheroy, bar none. I love those guys. My least favorites? Yves and Kronos. Oh, they're bloody useful, but they're also cyphers. It's why they always end up as the cigarette smoking man from the X-Files in the bits I do. They're playing their 'allies' for suckers, while pushing the *real* agendas -- Fate and Destiny. That Yves smokes is just happy coincidence. And lets me remind everyone of that little stain on him. It bummed me out when that character flaw's elaboration got cut after the Sup1 Playtest -- I *liked* it. But we still have artistic evidence to go by. Thank you, and good night. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:10:58 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Seraph=20Descending?= Subject: IN> And those who remained unchanged... This first/last stuff is great, but there are extra things to consider here... those choirs and bands that failed to switch... what implications might this have for them? Elohim: A simple rationalisation. They are angels of balance. They can equally weigh up all sides. thus, when the symphony reconfigured, their essential nature didnt change. This should mean that elohim adapt best to the change around them. Malakim: This could get messy. Why were they amongst the few who remained? Was it their essential purity? or is it because they are the iron forged tools of gods will, and as such, do not require looking through a different glass? Whoops. watch that pride... then theres the deeper question (and one which hell will love an answer to.) Did they remain the same because as malakim, they are no longer truly angels? Expect a lot of soul searching, angst, and finally a "Sod it - lets go kick demon butt" reaction. hey. they're malakim after all. Bright Lilim/Lilim/Lilith: Since at their core, all these beings are human at least in part (lilith is human forces +, lilim are made from her forces), did the symphony pass them over? certainly the earth bound humans have remained the same. Those daughters who make a point out of their unique heritage may well do some deep examining, and possibly re-evaluate humanity's worth. Habbalah: Another easy one.. Obviously, this is god's way of telling them that they _are_ his chosen tools. the only ones that were not so flawed as to need changing... though there may be cognitive dissonance when they meet lilim. and until they find out its happened in heaven as well, it will almost certainly reinforce the "I'm not a demon" rationale. - -Fallenseraph __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:51:11 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Seraph=20Descending?= Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination --- Michael Walton wrote: > - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > > Yeah, I can imagine a Blockhead treating a Grigori > like > > that... try to do > > their job, and they get hunted for sport. Jerks. > > Ummm... aren't we forgetting something here? Like > Stone's Dissonance condition? Unless the Stonie is > willing > to eat the Dissonance, he can't do anything unless > the > Watcher hits first. It's also safe to conclude that > becoming Dissonant by disobeying the boss's prime > directive > is not something that David looks kindly upon. That > kinda > inhibits hunting anybody for sport, including > demons. This is one of the sections of IN canon that _really_ doesnt sit well with me. Aside from the question of stony dissonance, dominic's judgement was _outcasting_ NOT _execution_, and yet david was not tried for being overzealous, nor for sanctioning dissonant action by his servitors. And if David did rationalise it as "They turned away from God and His purpose, thus, like lucifer's rebels, they have collectively struck the first blow", then he just got a hell of a lot more unpleasant in my eyes. (ordinarily, i like david, but i do play down his tougher side unless i'm doing dark. And you don't want to know what my Shadow Cast version of him is like... I'll put _him_ on my website when i finish his write up). - -Fallenseraph __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:00:40 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) >>Julian's Subjective Relations: :) >William's Subjective relations: As for me... S.D.'s Subjective Relations: Allied: Dominic, (certain portrayals of) Laurence, Marc, Michael Asmodeus, Kobal, Lilith, Nybbas, Valefor [1] Associated: (certain portrayals of) David, (certain portrayals of) Eli, Gabriel, Janus, Jean, Yves Andrealphus, Alaemon, Baal Neutral: Other AAs/DPs, except... Hostile: Fleurity, Litheroy, Malphas [2] Enemy: Belial, Furfur, Saminga, Vapula [2] [1] This may take a bit of explaining. Asmodeus, Dominic: I have this odd obsession with these two. Presumably why I'm currently playing an ex-Gamester (Bright Lilim, for the record, who *just* had Azzie call in the Geas/3 she owed him) and I'm planning to play a Judge in a future game. ^^ I'm not entirely sure *why* I like 'em both so much...though I do know I like reasonably-sympathetic!Nikki more than Evil-Balseraph!Nikki. Marc, Kobal, Nybbas: ...so I have this soft spot for the 'almost-human' Superiors. ^^; Though I do think Kobal and Nybbas got *shafted* on Band Attunements/Dissonance. Trade, on the other hand, is *very* cool (especially with Spymaster Marc), and the other two have...Potential. Laurence: Honorable-but-Naive Larry is fun, but I actually like the more mature versions that've popped up on the list. You know. The ones where Laurence sighs a lot and gets headaches almost as often as Sparky, but where we can *actually see why someone this young gets to be Lord Commander*. (See: off the top of my head, Moe's 'how to tell your Superior you just got turned into a cow' is a *very* good fast example, ditto his 'crosstraining: Trade' but that's longer.) Michael: He's just plain *Cool*. Though the hostility toward Yves has thrown me (he's the *Firstborn* and a *Seraph* and he can't even bring himself to be *Neutral* to the embodiment of *Destiny*?), Michael's own personality - at least, the version I imagine - is *fun*. [2] So here's where we see why I'm a Lilim at heart. ^^; Malphas: I *can* actually like him in certain portrayals (such as, oh, say, AA of Individuality) and he's got a certain amount of *style* that, say, Saminga is just *lacking*. So he gets a bump up the chart. Fleurity: After reading Sups4? He just *scares* me, yo. ^^; Litheroy: ...even *I'm* not sure why I'm hostile to the kid (though I have to note that I *haven't* read the writeup.) Maybe it's the soft spot for Alaemon, but Litheroy just rubs me the wrong way. Furfur: As above, haven't read the writeup, but anyone named 'Furfur' is an Enemy in my book. (On a more serious note, I don't like his Word - either of them - and I don't really like Calabim - except Valefor, who's another of those weird obsessions. Theft is Cool.) Belial: The usual; can't figure out why he's still alive when he's *obviously*, if not *the* reason Gabriel's this mad, then a major reason and the original cause of Gaby's instability. But Smart!Belial is reasonably interesting; that version gets a bump or two up the chart. Saminga: Malphas without the intelligence, Belial with less skill. What *I* want to know is how someone *this* apparently dumb came up with effective Mummification. It doesn't parse. Vapula: Long story, but I mostly blame it on the fondness for Jean. Though Sparky and the associated version of Vapula is *fuuuuuuun*. ^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:49:25 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Scorecard > Janus, Kyriotate Archangel of the Wind: I'm not sure we would notice > the difference. He'd emphasize spreading out and diversity instead of speed. His dissonance condition might change slightly, from (changing location) to (changing behavior). > Michael: Grigori Archangel of War: "Ya gotta be subtle." - Mike Hammer > Baal, Dark Grigori Prince of the War: Dark Ninja Master? > Beleth, Impudite Princess of Nightmares: Change Beleth's Impudite resonance to allow terrifying victims instead of Charming them. > Kobal: Djinn Prince of Dark Humor: Gone from being a Prince to being The Joker (ala Batman). > Valefor: Shedite Prince of Theft: I'm not sure we would notice the > difference. Valefor would be more into corrupting others into committing crime, either by guile or by force. He'd probably be more of a racketeer than a straight up thief. And you forgot Lucifer, First of the Dark Grigori. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 07:49:24 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> New Discord > Some Days, You Just Can't Get Rid of a Bomb (Celestial) [schnipp] > Level/1 Small things will annoy the celestial, but only for mostly trivial > activities Sounds like this would be the level at which the sufferer would suffer from occasional reoccurring flashbacks. (e.g. Kylie Whyote, Calabite of Theft, swallows a whole bottle of Vapulan Earthquake Pills (Warning: This product desn't work on Windy Ofanim) and, after the initial havoc, suffers from brief bouts of uncontrollable vibration for the rest of the adventure.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:34:00 -0400 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: RE: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) From: Julian Mensch Subject: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) >> I like Nybbas a lot, and I like his supposedly demonic word too. I know that there's a dark side to the Media, but I tend to honestly believe it's overwhelmingly outweighed by the Bright side, and from much of what I've read about the place, the Sleazy Producer of Hollywood (tm) is very much in the minority now (as opposed to a time as soon past as the 1980s). And I see the Evil influence of Nybbas in things like the rumored script for a new Superman movie, TV's constant replacement of my favorite, creative shows with clap-trap I can't stand, Music pop-stars like Brittany Spears, and more and more repetitive, formulaic movies, like Another Rocky Sequal. But then, I generally have a tendancy to see any TV/Movie/Music producer executive as clueless idiots, whenever I see something on TV that makes me go "What the Hell were they thinking!?" Nybbas must take some perticular interest in torturing me or something... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:43:28 -0400 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: Re: IN> Somewhat OT post -- 'Spirited Away' >>And I think I know where Eli is. He's in Japan, writing anime, or at the very least helping somebody do it. I gotta agree there. And if you haven't seen the Japanese Anime movie "Metropolis", then you should. Magnificent piece of Anime Masterpiece. He's also probably paied French Director Luc Besson a visit or two, because his new movie "The Transporter" is one quality piece... And it's all about a Djinn finding redemption. ...Well, it's about this Wheelman for Hire who falls in love with a kidnapped girl he was asked to transport, actually. But whenever I looked at that guy's behavior on screen, it screamed "I'm an Uncaring, but Very Meticulous" Djinn to me: Compulsively neat and organised, Will take care of something from one point to another, then not give a damn what happens to it, and goes stark raving mad when his subject of attunement (originally his car) gets destroyed. ...Of course, by the time the movie's gone half-way through, he's forced to go Renegade, and starts to really care about that girl. And by the end of the movie, he's in full-blown Cherubim mode, actually tracking down the Girl and the badguys who've taken her. Geez, I can just see Nybbas now: "Dammit, I just got off the phone warning Eisner about that Miyazaki, and now this!? ARRRRGH!!" Ooh, Nybbas in pain. Me Like. >=D ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 05:45:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: Makatiel, Elohite Archangel of Life Okeedoke, let's get started... - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > *Dissonance* > > To corporeally kill anything that has Forces and is > alive, intentionally or by direct accident. Meaning that they can't thoroughly clean anything? Germs are alive, too. Or do you assume that microbes have no Forces? > Angels of Life may not kill even demons in vessels. Seems to me that demons should be the exception to the "no killing" rule. > Seraphim: The Most Holy that serve Makatiel may bring > things back from the > dead, as long as it's not human, has less than 5 Forces, > and did not die of natural causes. Reasonable with the listed restrictions. > Cherubim: When a Guardian of Life attunes to a human, > they may spend Essence > equal to the Forces of their attuned plus 4 to create a > powerful lifeline. Basically a souped-up version of the Cherub of Flowers Attunement. Check. > Ofanim: The Wheels of Life live true to their name- they > have an intrinsic > understanding of the circle of life and death. With a > Perception roll and 4 > Essence, the Ofanite may look at one person and know when > they were born, > how well they have lived, and how much longer until they > estimatively die, barring celestial interference. Hmmm... I'm not sure about this one. It seems to combine several powers into one (Mercurian Resonance + one of the canonical Cherub Attunements). > Note that if it is a celestial in a vessel, > the Ofanite will receive their Role's information, or if > the celestial has no current role, a blank slate. Automatic supernatural entity detector? I wouldn't allow it. > Elohim: When these Elohim touch a dead body, they will > know the last emotion > the soul felt before it went on it's final journey, and > get a brief flash of > what caused the subjects death ("by water" or "by > weapon"). This is OK. > Malakim: [snip] When a demon directly threatens the > life of a human, the Malakite can add her Corporeal > Forces to any weapon > skill she uses against the demon, in order to subdue him. Quite good, this. > Bright Lilim: Gifters of Life can sense Needs that would > serve to directly > better the physical and mental life of the target. I presume that you mean they can choose to sense these Needs specifically without penalty to the Resonance roll, as Lilim can sense such Needs anyway? > Kyriotates: These Kyrio's can possess dead bodies, and > this will restore the > corpse to the condition it was in right before it died. > When the Kyriotate > abandons the body, it will return to it's "normal" state. The canonical Shedite of Death Attunement? Life's Kyrios deserve better. > Mercurian: Already able to sense the intricate webs that > flow through the > lives of an individual, these Friends can now use their > resonance on > anything that is living, from trees to animals to humans, > and sense their relations with one another. I suggest a modification; allowing them to Resonate on ecosystems and thus determine the relationships between various lifeforms and their habitats. > Grigori: The reproductive power of the Grigori extends > itself to all things > when they serve Life. Anyone the Grigori breeds with will > become fully > fertile, even if they are impotent/barren to begin with, > the union will always produce a child. !!! I foresee major problems with this. One, it encourages the Watchers to do the very thing that they were Outcasted for. Two, such breeding will inevitably lead to Nephallim births. Suggested change; give them the Corporeal Song of Fruition for free or w/o Disturbance. > Ethereals: Spirits that serve Makatiel will always have a > vessel at hand to > use, and are immune to potential Force loss from Trauma, > although repeated > abuse or loss of the vessels provided will upset the > Archangel of Life considerably. This is quite powerful and highly abusable. Some restriction is needed. Instead of a vague term like "they always have a Vessel at hand," how about a free Vessel at a level equal to the spirit's Corporeal Forces in level? If they lose it, they either have to pay CP to replace it or RP sweet-talking Makatiel for a new one. > 1-up: With a successful Will roll, the angel may actively > sacrifice their > own vessel in order to sustain the life of another > celestial's vessel. Ouch! It's a good Attunement, though. > Lifelight: For 3 Essence, the angel may create a sphere > of pulsing light > that burns undead away. Any undead within range of the > angel and the sphere > (which stays overhead the angel) will suffer one Body hit > every second until > they cover themselves with a thick, opaque material, or > leave the area of the sphere. Instead of every second, this should be worded "every combat round" instead. Just to avoid confusion as to the amount of damage dealt. > Vassal of Health: With a Perception roll, the angel can > see the current > physical condition of someone he is looking at. This is > indicated by an aura > around the target. White indicates perfect health; green > means good, yellow > means some damage, orange means severe damage, and red > means fatal damage. > Undead will have an aura also, but it will be tinted with > blackness. Seems OK. Side note: the naming convention for angelic Distinctions is that the Vassal level carries the name of the AA's Word. If this were canonical it would be Vassal of Life. Your campaign, of course; YMMV. > Friend of the Corporeal: The angel now has an aura of > powerful Life around > him, and everything in his vicinity will be affected by > this. If the angel > in near any human who is dying of unnatural causes, the > human will stay on > the verge of death until they are treated, or are damaged > even further. This > does not make the human immune to death- it only stops > them from dying of whatever hurt them. Nice. > Master of Life: Eternally bound to the power of Life, > these angels no longer > suffer Trauma, or even the problem of corporeal death! > When killed, these > angels will automatically assume celestial form instead > of going to their > Heart. They may automatically ascend to Heaven without > disturbance (this > must be done immediately or the effect is lost), jump to > another vessel they > have in a bodybag, or stay in celestial form. Also nice. > Knights of Life: This is a small group of celestials that > serve Makatiel’s > Word by assisting women who are giving birth. Personally, I think this is better as a Servitor Attunement (which could be called Midwife). > *Invocation Modifier* > +1 Anything with one Corporeal Force > +2 100 or more living people > +3 A ritual to turn a living being undead > +4 A human with 4 or more Corporeal Forces > +5 The congregation of 100 or more undead > +6 A dying Superior I like the +3 modifier; it makes sense that Makatiel would be concerned with such rituals and would want to stop them. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 05:48:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > Let me phrase this trying to make sure this doesn't > devolve into "Your > Favorite Archangel Sucks! No, Yours Does!" What do > people have against > Jean? He's not Khalid, and he's certainly not Vapula. > I'm curious as to what people find so awful about him. I don't find Jean awful, but I am curious as to how an Elohite held a primal Word like Lightning before science and technology became factors. I suspect that this part wasn't thought through very well, and I really hope that it's explained in Jean's expanded write-up. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:41:45 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors This is fun. Here's mine. Janet Anderson's Subjective Relations: Allied: Michael, David, Laurence, Eli* Associated: Dominic, Gabriel Neutral: All remaining angels Hostile: All demons except the ones under "enemy" Enemy: Andrealphus, Malphas, Kobal** *It will probably amuse the few people on this list who know me personally that although I am not at all warlike, three of my four favorite archangels are. But if I were an angel I would be a Servitor of Eli IST either Laurence or David -- Laurence because of his strong religious affiliations and David because of his support of personal bonds between people and among members of groups. **My choice of enemies is based on those influences that in my opinion get their strength from the hurting and degradation of others. I'm seriously against this, which is why I have both Dominic and Gabriel (no doubt to both of their chagrin) in my Associated list. Janet Anderson - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:37:47 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Somewhat OT post -- 'Spirited Away' He's also probably paied French Director Luc Besson a visit or two, because his new movie "The Transporter" is one quality piece... And it's all about a Djinn finding redemption. Well, okay, I won't go so far as to call Rolland a Balseraph, but "The Transporter"... hooo... Let me put it this way, Kobal is laughing his horned little butt off right now. First of all, he was able to sneak footage into the commercial preview that never actually made it into the movie (Using a pan to deflect a rocket? I don't think so...). Before this, though, he was able to grab the advance copy of the scripts from the different actors. He completely cut out a series of explanations crucial to the 'plot' but he didn't stop there. He actually replaced part of the movie with what appears to be stock footage of two people snorkeling. Lets not even count the number of other Demon Princes that got their hands into Nybbas' pie without the latter knowing. Valefor loves the movie, Asmodeus loves the cops, and Andrealphus even was able to put in a completely pointless sex scene (though to be fair, Andrealphus has been able to do that with almost every movie). All in all, a triumph for Hell. Josh (Forgive me. Bitter about spending seven fifty on this the other night.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:55:55 -0400 From: "Adams, David" Subject: RE: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination - -Fallenseraph >This is one of the sections of IN canon that _really_ >doesnt sit well with me. Aside from the question of >stony dissonance, dominic's judgement was _outcasting_ >NOT _execution_, and yet david was not tried for being >overzealous, nor for sanctioning dissonant action by >his servitors. And if David did rationalise it as >"They turned away from God and His purpose, thus, like >lucifer's rebels, they have collectively struck the >first blow", then he just got a hell of a lot more >unpleasant in my eyes. I would just like to know where exactly the idea that David encourages the active hunting of Grigori comes from. I acknowledge that David and Uriel hunted the Nephallim but aside from destroying those Grigori who couldn't keep it in their celestial pants, I have heard nothing except list conjecture that the Grigori are hunted. My one main problem with that is that David has sworn an oath against being rash and too quick to judge. He believed that oath so fervently that it was translated into a part of his dissonance condition for his servitors. I have a serious problem in thinking that he would be leniant with his servitors because they wanted to do some Grigori-bashing. If anything he probably still loves the Grigori and the purpose they serve, which is probably the reason why Stone has undertaken so much of the Watcher's old work. I never pictured David as someone who was actively cruel, I just see him as that person who does what has to be done because it is right and needs to be done. Hunting down ANGELS who were cast out as a choir is not needed in any respect, hunting down angels who haven't learned from their past transgressions is a different matter, a matter to be taken care of by Dominic. David isn't cruel David is a Malakite, he lives by his Oaths, his Word and the edicts of Heaven. The first two interpret how he perceives the third, but no where in the first two is there this cruelty that is spoken of or implied. His methods may seem cruel to Humanity but when your word is elemental you just don't see or do things like a human does. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:29:21 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 10:55 AM, Adams, David wrote: > I have a serious problem in > thinking that he would be leniant with his servitors because they > wanted to > do some Grigori-bashing. If anything he probably still loves the > Grigori > and the purpose they serve, which is probably the reason why Stone has > undertaken so much of the Watcher's old work. I never pictured David > as > someone who was actively cruel, I just see him as that person who does > what > has to be done because it is right and needs to be done. Hunting down > ANGELS who were cast out as a choir is not needed in any respect, > hunting > down angels who haven't learned from their past transgressions is a > different matter, a matter to be taken care of by Dominic. David isn't > cruel David is a Malakite, he lives by his Oaths, his Word and the > edicts of > Heaven. Sadly, we have rather direct evidence of David's tough love in "Fall of the Malakim." His treatment of Max is downright evil, IMO. I can certainly see *that* David encouraging his followers to keep the Grigori's lives a crucible they have to endure. Also, remember what the Grigori were exiled for -- consorting with human beings, living debauched lives and bearing children with them. They've been punished for stealing candy and gorging themselves on it until they're sick, and as a punishment they've been locked in the candy store as janitors. Given David's deep love for what they represented, he might consider it his sacred duty to ensure they don't fall again, punish them when they do, and remind them on a continual basis that they have been punished. Which is why sending them to Limbo is effective -- it's a nice looooong (horrible, soul-crushing) time-out for the Grigori who oversteps his bounds. Of course, what those bounds are depends on the brightness and/or contrast of your game. For some games, a Grigori who sires a pack of Children and Nephellim is obviously reveling in the sins he has been punished for, and deserves nothing but the stone mace of hurtage. In other games, a Grigori involving himself in celestial society at all -- calling the PCs to warn them about disturbances, for example -- is asking for smitage. In others... Davidians push Watchers into confrontations with any excuse behind it. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:44:32 +0000 From: glasgowc1@attbi.com Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination > Sadly, we have rather direct evidence of David's tough > love in "Fall of the Malakim." At this moment, I feel the irresistible urge to quote a certain small bowl of petunias. > His treatment of Max is downright evil, IMO. Same here -- which is why I file FOTM in the B.L.E (1) era and selectively ignore all bits of it that I don't like. Because you are correct... that version of David is thoroughly, utterly unlikeable. As well as really, really stupid. - -- Chuckg (1) Before the Line Editor *g* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:56:42 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 11:44 AM, glasgowc1@attbi.com wrote: > Same here -- which is why I file FOTM in the B.L.E (1) > era and selectively ignore all bits of it that I don't > like. Because you are correct... that version of David > is thoroughly, utterly unlikeable. > > As well as really, really stupid. > In this, we are in complete agreement. I spent a long session while reading FotM muttering "what was he *thinking?*" It's worth mentioning (as a complete Devil's Advocate -- or is that David's Advocate) that this side of his personality *is* mentioned in Superiors 1 as well, under Rewards and Punishments. Quoting just a touch: "David does not offer his Servitors more kindness than he shows humanity. His punishments take the form of great and terrible trials, designed to increase his Servitors' strength. Some of his legendary punishments include twisting an Ofanite's sense of time so that the next day occupied a subjective millennium, without speeding up the Ofanite's motion; sealing a Mercurian away from the solid world, so that she could touch nothing but the air; and, of course, making the Malakite Maximilian the toy of the Los Angeles demons." (Superiors 1, p.32) This is a side of David that needs to be smoothed out in bright games where David is quiet but far more decent. As a default, though, he proves rather conclusively that David has *not* sworn an oath to be fair and just in his punishments. If anything, overreaction seems the rule. All of which goes back to the point that it's certainly easy to imagine Davidian Servitors as primarily responsible for making the Grigori's lives purgatory on Earth... or at least why the Grigori blame them more than the others. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:11:30 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> A Memorandum To The Seraphim Council To: The Seraphim Council From: The Divine Trumpatory Research Coalition Re: Armageddon To whom it may concern: It has come to our attention that the signs for the sounding of Gabriel's Trumpets, which herald the approach of Armageddon, Apocalypse, Ragnarok, and several other world-ending events, are perhaps overly vague, and bear much cause for confusion. (For example, who is to determine the current holiest man in the world? We imagine that this particular title fluctuates from day to day.) Therefore we have taken it upon ourselves to research and present a new set of criteria for Gabriel that may be more conducive to her mental health and well-being as regards the decision of whether or not to blow the Trumpets. We have attached the criteria to this missive; you will find them at the bottom of the page, and footnotes on a separate page. Please be aware that should you opt to use these criteria, we do retain copyright and will require that a notice detailing this copyright be broadcast to each listener, immediately following the sounding of the according Trumpet. If these criteria are not suitable as written, please feel free to make any corrections which you feel would improve their disposition and forward them to us for further research and approval. With deepest regards, The Divine Trumpatory Research Coalition Hyberath, Mercurian of Trade, presiding I. The living humans outnumber the dead. (1) II. A source of great power causes grave danger to those who keep it. (2) III. On the last day of the year, a great leader falls. (3) IV. The crime rate in New York plummet to insignificant levels. (4) V. Dick Clark dies. (5) VI. Death and destruction arise from the floor of the sea. (6) VII. At the stroke of midnight, the world turns to war. (7) 1) While we are well aware that Earthly statisticians, and at least one Heavenly statistician, have figured this date almost exactly, the Trumpet should not be blown until the event actually happens. Our best results have occurred when undead were included as dead in this calculation. 2) We're thinking a nuclear plant here, although we're open to suggestions. 3) The Coalition would like to note that this criterion was included at the request of Felix, Malakite of War. The rest of us were pushing for "The home of man falls by its own hand", but Felix (and his broadsword Twinkle) make some very persuasive arguments. 4) This event may already have happened once, although since the prior three events had not yet occurred at that point, the corresponding Trumpet should not have been heard. Verbal evidence leads us to believe that an agent, or agents, of Jordi were responsible for this, and we respectfully suggest that the Archangel of Animals lay bare his plans for Armageddon for all - or, at least, the Seraphim Council - to see. 5) We may be waiting a while on this one. 6) Note that this may be metaphorical as well. Liurge, Mercurian of the Sword, has perhaps been reading too much Arthur C. Clarke lately. 7) It is generally assumed that this will be Greenwich Mean Time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:30:48 -0500 From: Joe Reimers Subject: Re: IN> A Memorandum To The Seraphim Council LOL!! I love it!!! At 12:11 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, you wrote: >To: The Seraphim Council >From: The Divine Trumpatory Research Coalition >Re: Armageddon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:01:17 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination > Let me phrase this trying to make sure this doesn't devolve into "Your > Favorite Archangel Sucks! No, Yours Does!" What do people have against > Jean? He's not Khalid, and he's certainly not Vapula. I'm curious as to > what people find so awful about him. Well, first, my apologies if it seems I was trying to start anything like that, I promise you I wasn't. I was honestly just joking around a bit. I dislike Jean himself simply for the comment in the main rulebook under his write-up where it states that he and his do not think highly of mankind, and that despite their "tiny cranial volumes" they still manage some occasional insight. I personally dislike Archangels that treat mankind as something below them, and Jean's attitude in particular is a little repugnant to me. Just chalk it up to personal dislike :) I don't think he's a good or bad Archangel, but I don't like him all the same. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:13:25 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination > Sadly, we have rather direct evidence of David's tough love in "Fall of > the Malakim." His treatment of Max is downright evil, IMO. I can > certainly see *that* David encouraging his followers to keep the > Grigori's lives a crucible they have to endure. I believe this is one of the many things that makes "Fall of the Malakim" such a highly respected source on this list ... Janet Anderson - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:03:46 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> [DAWN] And With Daylight Comes Illumination >Well, first, my apologies if it seems I was trying to start anything like >that, I promise you I wasn't. I was honestly just joking around a bit. I >dislike Jean himself simply for the comment in the main rulebook under his >write-up where it states that he and his do not think highly of mankind, and >that despite their "tiny cranial volumes" they still manage some occasional >insight. I personally dislike Archangels that treat mankind as something >below them, and Jean's attitude in particular is a little repugnant to me. >Just chalk it up to personal dislike :) I don't think he's a good or bad >Archangel, but I don't like him all the same. No, no, I didn't think you were doing anything like that at all. It's just that I keep wondering why Jean gets bad airtime on the list. The comment you mention might be a big part of it. That whole sentence irritates me as well -- besides being far too spiteful toward humankind for an angel, there are two other things that bother me about it. One is that cranial volume doesn't matter in the slightest to an angel (ask a Kyriotate possessing a mouse, or anyone in multidimensional Heaven), and the other is that it sounds to me like a writer who didn't know science trying to sound scientific(Jeanobabble? Eeeeew). If it was inherited from some bitingly sarcastic version of Jean in the original INS/MV as the sterotypical Ivory Tower elitist, it would fit that version -- but such a Jean doesn't seem to be the current IN version. I pretty much ignore that entire sentence selectively, and hope that it gets glossed over or repudiated in his extended writeup. To take an example from my own profession, it's true that professors have been around a lot longer and probably know a good deal more than the graduate students, but the professor still respects the grad students' abilities and gives them the credit for their portion of the work. In my current(well, suspended but here's hoping) game, where a Jeanite project was put to good use by the players, a human or two is due some accolade assuming the plot comes to successful completion. William ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2821 ********************************