in_nomine-digest Wednesday, October 16 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2822 In this digest: Lightning and Illumination (Was: Re: IN> [DAWN]) IN> What about Marc? RE: IN> What about Marc? Re: IN> What about Marc? RE: IN> What about Marc? Re: IN> What about Marc? Re: IN> What about Marc? Re: IN> Somewhat OT post -- 'Spirited Away' Re: IN> What about Marc? Re: IN> What about Marc? IN> Media Hostility Re: IN> A Memorandum To The Seraphim Council Re: Lightning and Illumination (Was: Re: IN> [DAWN]) Re: IN> What about Marc? Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) Re: IN> even more OT post -- 'Metropolis' Re: Lightning and Illumination (Was: Re: IN> [DAWN]) Re: IN> INverse Superior: Makatiel, Elohite Archangel of Life Re: IN> even more OT post -- 'Metropolis' Re: Lightning and Illumination (Was: Re: IN> [DAWN]) IN> Furfur (was Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN])) Re: IN> Furfur (was Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN])) Re: IN> Furfur (was Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN])) Re: IN>Song of Fusion Re: IN> What about Marc? Re: IN> INverse Superior: Makatiel, Elohite Archangel of Life ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:28:33 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Lightning and Illumination (Was: Re: IN> [DAWN]) > I don't find Jean awful, but I am curious as to how an >Elohite held a primal Word like Lightning before science >and technology became factors. I suspect that this part >wasn't thought through very well, and I really hope that >it's explained in Jean's expanded write-up. The explanation I've always favored comes from looking closely at the whole phenomenon. Lightning takes a long time to build up the necessary charge; it will not 'jump the gap' unless sufficient force has been built up. Then, it acts swiftly. Likewise, Jean can consider action until action becomes necessary, then act with dispatch, bringing all his force to bear. I don't have the GMG, the most likely source of this information if it exists at all, so I don't know when Jean obtained his Word. According to the APG, he was one of the first angels, probably meaning somewhere in the early billions of years. The APG also says his Word is older than humanity, so I suspect this means that he was Word-bound well before the Fall. If it was before the Fall, one could easily say that God foresaw the need for Jean's talents in the areas of knowledge. A second notion is that the swift destructive power of Lightning was thought to require a calm counterbalance in its administration, so an Elohite was chosen. Lastly, at this time the concept of Lightning as inspiration might have been quite strong in angelic thought, so an Elohite would make sense. (One of Jean's first major responsibilities was the transcription of all knowledge -- the act of *writing* something, bringing knowledge to an iconic state, seems to be very important to Yves.) After the Fall, it might be possible that Heavenly technology was far enough advanced to know about electrical equipment, and the Council wanted to get a jump on this power source before Hell did, seeing as how Fire had already been divided. Of course, at that time you would have to raise an angel who could be very patient, plan a long way ahread, and make sure to keep as quiet as possible about the real nature of his activities -- thus explaining both the suggestion of an Elohite and Jean's habitual tendency to keep his knowledge under tight control. Finally(especially in the last few thousand years), Fire itself could have been a spur to the choice of Elohite -- Jean's raising to the Word of Lightning could have been an attempt by Heaven to regain ground in the concept of inspiration, and an Elohite was chosen because he might be less bothered and more capable of staying in control should Lucifer assign an infernal Word of Lightning. (Gabriel didn't really flip until after Islam, but he had been showing signs of irritation previously.) William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:44:14 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: IN> What about Marc? Jean as Lightning makes sense, from a certain point of view... and he never bugged me, since he could be the coldly methodical lightning-throwing angel before technology comes along. The one who bugs me is Marc. He got the word of Trade right around the time angels were banned from Earth. This was around 25,000 BCE, and there was no commerce amongst humans. He became the Archangel of Trade at the first meeting of the Seraphim Council a mere 3,000 years later. Human trade still wasn't born yet, but here we have an angel with an apparently Superior-level word that is elevated by a vote of the Council to the position of Archangel. What were they thinking? Either they have remarkable foresight and are willing to tolerate a weakling Archangel with a weakling word until commerce can really get going 20,000 years later, or I'm not reading Trade properly. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:59:20 -0400 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> What about Marc? Ben wrote: "He got the word of Trade right around the time angels were banned from Earth. This was around 25,000 BCE, and there was no commerce amongst humans." Actually, that was about the time of the Great Leap Forward -- dramatically innovative new tools and musical instruments, cave paintings, etc. Spread ALLLLLL over... So it is at least plausible that this was when humans FIRST started to trade goods and ideas in ways that were culturally significant. And this hot young Mercurian gets up in front of the Seraphim Council and tells them, "This is going to be hot stuff!" and convinces them. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:03:51 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> What about Marc? >He became the Archangel of Trade at the first meeting of the Seraphim >Council a mere 3,000 years later. Human trade still wasn't born yet, but >here we have an angel with an apparently Superior-level word that is >elevated by a vote of the Council to the position of Archangel. What were >they thinking? > >Either they have remarkable foresight and are willing to tolerate a weakling >Archangel with a weakling word until commerce can really get going 20,000 >years later, or I'm not reading Trade properly. > >Ben No offense meant, but proably the latter. Trade is a rather nebulous Word. It's a concept more than an action. Trade among humans took a bit to set up, I'll agree, but before that, you had the humans trading a bit of safety for the advantages of evolution. And at the very beginning, reinforced by the Fall, you had the ultimate Trade- I'll Trade you a seemingly perfect and perpetual Symphony for Freewill. Josh (which would explain the buddy/buddy feelings that Marc and Lilith have in most fanfic, though I'm not sure about the possible canon of that.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:06:12 -0400 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> What about Marc? Josh Moger wrote: "(which would explain the buddy/buddy feelings that Marc and Lilith have in most fanfic, though I'm not sure about the possible canon of that.)" Aren't Marc and Lilith listed as nemeses in the core book? Or was it Marc and Haagenti? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:16:44 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> What about Marc? On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 03:03 PM, Josh Moger wrote: > (which would explain the buddy/buddy feelings that Marc and Lilith > have in > most fanfic, though I'm not sure about the possible canon of that.) > > Dominic's Canon Superiors Opinion writeup expresses Dominic's concern over Marc's apparent (rumored) associations with Lilith. There *is* some Canon association there, though the extent of it is, to my knowledge, undetermined. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:26:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher Anthony" Subject: Re: IN> What about Marc? Rampaging Crypto-Man said: > Either they have remarkable foresight and are willing to tolerate a > weakling Archangel with a weakling word until commerce can really > get going 20,000 years later, or I'm not reading Trade properly. With all due respect, I'm pretty sure it's the latter. Trade != exchange of currency. Trade == exchange of *anything*. Marc's Word isn't based on currency; it's just phrased that way to make sense to the contemporary humans who have to understand his writeup. Marc's Word is based on exchange (and not necessarily free exchange either; I *heard* that proto-uproar from the Open Source crowd), and pretty much every organism does that *constantly*. My question is why Marc is portrayed as being so *weak*. He might be (at the very least nominally) on the Peace side, but that doesn't mean he's not strong - and every time someone makes a concession, or barters, or pays for something, or *performs aerobic respiration*, Marc's Word is upheld. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:33:22 -0400 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: Re: IN> Somewhat OT post -- 'Spirited Away' >Well, okay, I won't go so far as to call Rolland a Balseraph, but "The >Transporter"... hooo... Oh, all right, so maybe Nybbas' agents managed to do a bit of messing up of the movie, but that doesn't change my opinion that the movie's core storyline is about a Djinn achieving redemption. First of all, Mr Frank (The Transporter) is clearly a Djinn of Theft, possibly a former Cherubim of War. At the start of the movie, he's definetly got the "I don't care about you people, but I'll do the job, and don't you dare mess up the leather in MY car" attitude I'd expect from a Djinn. And after he makes the mistake of attuning himself to the girl, she definetly becomes fascinated with him (that whole Djinn of Theft Band attunement thing). And he makes the mistake of actually getting attached to her, gaining Band Dissonnance. And that's just the beginning of the events that cause him to turn from heartless professional to caring individual. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:34:15 -0700 From: Harukami Subject: Re: IN> What about Marc? >Dominic's Canon Superiors Opinion writeup expresses Dominic's concern >over Marc's apparent (rumored) associations with Lilith. There *is* >some Canon association there, though the extent of it is, to my >knowledge, undetermined. I imagine that Marc and Lilith could work relatively well around each other - - after all, both know the importance of never breaking an agreement: It's dissonant for Marc's angels to do so, and it has the return of a "heavy price" if a Lilim breaks her geas (think contract). Certainly, considering that Marc's Word is based around "Getting your money's worth", it would be disturbing that a Lilim can make someone do something far worse in return for, say, a cup of coffee - but at the same time, I imagine that Lilith and her girls understand Marc better than any other Archangel, and Marc understands Lilith and the Lilim better than any other demons. It's all about contracts and dealing, after all. Harukami - ------------------------------------------ Haru's IN Page: http://haru_in.tripod.com/ With art, fiction, and the campaign "DGC!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:26:12 -0600 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> What about Marc? Thanks for all the stuff on Marc, guys. These answers are a lot better than what I was telling my confused players after their player characters witnessed Marc being given his word and his Archangel status. ("Good point guys. I have no idea.") Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:15:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Media Hostility - --- Rolland Therrien wrote: > But then, I generally have a tendancy to see any > TV/Movie/Music producer > executive as clueless idiots, whenever I see something on > TV that makes me > go "What the Hell were they thinking!?" It's not all idiocy. Some of it is calculation. Ever wonder why "Static Shock" came on at 8:30/7:30 Central while "X-Men Evolution" didn't come on until 10:30? Those execs had to know that the teens and preteens who watch that kind of show don't get up early on Saturday morning, yet the show with the Black superhero came on at the same time as the kiddie stuff. Coincidence? I think not. The question is, was this the work of Nybbas or Malphas? > Nybbas must take some perticular interest in torturing me > or something... It's not just you. It's gotten to the point where I can predict when a show will be cancelled by how much I like it. Enjoy "Firefly" while it lasts, folks. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:23:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> A Memorandum To The Seraphim Council RIBLMHO! I especially like event #5. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:29:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: Lightning and Illumination (Was: Re: IN> [DAWN]) - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > Lightning takes a long time to build > up the necessary > charge; it will not 'jump the gap' unless sufficient > force has been built up. Partly true, though the charge can build up very quickly under the right conditions. > If it was before the Fall, one could easily say that > God foresaw the > need for Jean's talents in the areas of knowledge. Good point. > A second notion is that > the swift destructive power of Lightning was thought to > require a calm > counterbalance in its administration, so an Elohite was > chosen. Better point. > Lastly, at > this time the concept of Lightning as inspiration might > have been quite > strong in angelic thought, so an Elohite would make > sense. If this is the case, why has Jean mostly gotten away from inspiration in the modern era? Earth in IN needs more inspiration, not less. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:30:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> What about Marc? - --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > Either they have remarkable foresight and are willing to > tolerate a weakling > Archangel with a weakling word until commerce can really > get going 20,000 > years later, or I'm not reading Trade properly. If you define Trade as any form of exchange, the Word was active from the moment that the first angels started doing favors for each other. But you're right, the timing is a bit funky. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:44:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) Ooo! I wanna play! Mike's Subjective Relations (wipe that smirk off your face; not those relations): Allied: Eli, Laurence, Zadkiel Associated: Blandine, Novalis, Nybbas, Valefor, Yves Neutral: Everybody else except... Hostile: Jean, Khalid, Kobal Enemy: Furfur Eli I like because he puts doing his job over politics (politics in this case including other peoples' opinions about how he goes about doing his job), plus I identify with slightly disorganized creative types (real shocker there). Laurence is high on my list because of his emphasis on honor and personal discipline. I truly admire those qualities and wish that Larry's compentence wouldn't be called into question so often because he treats them as more important than results. Zadkiel resonates with my Cherubic tendencies. If you ever see me at the playground with my nieces and nephews you'll know what I mean. Blandine I like because I'm a dreamer myself -- but like me she could stand to adjust her attitude toward applying resources in the real world. I agree with Novalis on the nonviolence thing; I, too, prefer to try kindness first. If it doesn't work, you can still hit just as hard (and she does, in her own way). Nybbas brings back memories for me -- I used to work with people like him when I was in the entertainment industry. People like that are difficult to respect, but often easy to like (at least up close; at a distance when you can examine them objectively, they're not so likeable). Sure I call Nybbas a slimeball, but I smile when I say it. Valefor is just too cool not to like (and that's saying something in light of my usual low opinion of cool factor). If I were to play a demon, it would probably be a Thief. Yves -- well, you gotta like somebody who's so good at effing the ineffable. Jean and Khalid I have problems with because of the interaction between their Words and Choir (though another thread has cleared up some of the Jean stuff for me). With Khalid there's the added problem of his canon Choir Attunements, which aren't that great IMHO. Kobal is the kind of sadistic bastard whom I especially detest in RL. I've already said that I'm nonviolent, but if I were going to pop off and hit someone it would likely be the sort of person who gets off on hurting other people. Furfur -- I see no reason for him. Everything he does, some other DP does better (Cool? Valefor. Destruction? Baal, Belial, Haagenti and Saminga. Rock and Roll? Nybbas. Hot, passionate raw earth-moving sex? Andrealphus and Lilith.). I would include Furfur IMC only for canon completeness. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:04:36 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN]) My turn my turn :D Allied: Yves, Eli, Zadkiel, Blandine (1) Associated: Novalis, Dominic, Michael, Asmodeus (2) Neutral: All the others Hostile: Beleth, Malphas, David, Lilith, Nybbas (3) Enemy: Kronos, Andrealphus, Kobal (4) Dire Hatred: Mariel (5) (1) I love Yves dearly, simply because he represents Destiny, womthing which I personally strive for in myself and others. Eli is just a wonderful being despite what he may have done, and Creation is incredibly important. Zadkiel... well, I'm a Cherub at heart, and protective of people I love, so she and I get along :D as for Blandine, dreams have been a very important part of my life, and have saved me from trouble more than once. She needs more respect and attention. (2) Michael I can understand. Despite the fact I don't really like many men, he's a good archetype and an awesome Seraph, despite his being a little stubborn and unreasonable. Novalis I love, even if I disagree with her ideals sometimes, and understand her well. Dominic I feel for very much, he has a dirty job that no one should bear, and his raging self-doubt and Seraph nature only makes it worse. Asmodeus... just rings a chime with me. He's the Game, and a Djinn, and I have a grudging respect for the stuff he has to do, despite the fact hate that he stops redemption candidates. It's a dirty job again, but someone has to do it, and Asmodeus deserves respect. (3) Beleth is just plain nasty, and rather pathertic. I have little respect for her as Archangel or Demon Princess, and she was a fool to follow Lucifer. A weak fool. Malphas needs to be destroyed, as his death would help much of Heaven to fight against Hell, and release the earth from an uneeded strain. David personally dislike, as I think he represents Stone poorly, and is a cruel and cold hearted being. Lilith I'm pissed at for being such a selfish bitch, she acted like a child and released Hell upon the world, and I hope her Judgment is harsh. Nybbas I laugh at more than hate, as he's just grasping at thin air by now, he'll lose power soon enough. (4) Next the Mariel, Kronos is the worst Prince in all of Hell. Fate is -bad-, and Kronos needs to be stopped as soon as possible. Andrealphus is just another whiny little worm, selfish and immature, unable to deal with the harsh realities of love. His perversion of such a powerful and important Word makes him worthy only of death... or potential redemption. But he's unfit for Love. Kobal I simply abhor because he mocks everything that is so precious and valuable, and thinks that laughing at it is approriate. I have hope for him though... I feel sorry for him if anything. (5) Mariel is my antithesis, the one thing I truly hate and fear, and I see her as a danger that was far greater than Lucifer himself, and I salute Haagenti for snacking on her. Her Word, her pathetic attitude, everything, is simply the greatest evil there can possibly be, and I'm glad she's dead and gone. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:17:35 +0000 From: "carson young" Subject: Re: IN> even more OT post -- 'Metropolis' Carson Young, habbalite of GM's > > >>And I think I know where Eli is. He's in Japan, writing anime, or at >the >very least helping somebody do it. > >I gotta agree there. And if you haven't seen the Japanese Anime movie >"Metropolis", then you should. Magnificent piece of Anime Masterpiece. > #snip# I honestly think that metropolis has the best ending of any movie ever. I don't care for the way the characters are drawn, but they could be stick figures and I'd still love that movie. I don't want to spoil the ending, but I know that those who have seen it know what I'm talking about. Carson Young, habbalite of GM's _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.  Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:19:13 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: Lightning and Illumination (Was: Re: IN> [DAWN]) On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 05:29 PM, Michael Walton wrote: >> Lastly, at >> this time the concept of Lightning as inspiration might >> have been quite >> strong in angelic thought, so an Elohite would make >> sense. > > If this is the case, why has Jean mostly gotten away from > inspiration in the modern era? Earth in IN needs more > inspiration, not less. > Ah! I can answer this one. The Archangel responsible for Knowledge died in the battle against Legion. With Raphael's destruction, her role had to be assumed by others. Jean has had to divide his energies, away from pure inspiration and illumination, and towards the flow of science and scientific process. This is especially true given Vapula's efforts to pervert science into Hellish technology -- technology for it's own sake, not mankind's. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:21:51 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: Makatiel, Elohite Archangel of Life > Meaning that they can't thoroughly clean anything? Germs > are alive, too. Or do you assume that microbes have no > Forces? Yes, I am assuming that. Would a clause stating that the being must have Forces -and- be sentient? > >> Angels of Life may not kill even demons in vessels. > > Seems to me that demons should be the exception to the > "no killing" rule. Nope, no killing at all. It would be too easy if demons were free of it. >> Cherubim: When a Guardian of Life attunes to a human, >> they may spend Essence >> equal to the Forces of their attuned plus 4 to create a >> powerful lifeline. > > Basically a souped-up version of the Cherub of Flowers > Attunement. Check. In a sense... the person literaly becomes immortl (after a sense) for the time of the attunement, they can't die even by a blasted building smashing into them. > >> Ofanim: > > Hmmm... I'm not sure about this one. It seems to combine > several powers into one (Mercurian Resonance + one of the > canonical Cherub Attunements) Sugestions? I try to meld the circular motion and being of the Ofanite with the process of life and exitence, thus allowing them to -see- the motion of life in a person, from start to motion to stop. > Automatic supernatural entity detector? I wouldn't allow > it. Well, it will be either way. If they detect a celestial, it will read "will never die" for lifespan. > > I presume that you mean they can choose to sense these > Needs specifically without penalty to the Resonance roll, > as Lilim can sense such Needs anyway? I should be more specific. These are needs of the body of the individual, not the persons mind. A fat guy may Need more food, but the Lilim would be able to sense that the body Needs to lose weight and become healthy, and she will know just how to do that best. > The canonical Shedite of Death Attunement? Life's Kyrios > deserve better. Really? Isn't the power of being able to possess any corpse and have it look like it was a perfectly healthy, live person, and not take dissonanc for it being damaged not good enough? I honestly don't know, if you have a good idea, please feel free to tell :D > I suggest a modification; allowing them to Resonate on > ecosystems and thus determine the relationships between > various lifeforms and their habitats. Hmm... makes more sense. Fixed. > !!! I foresee major problems with this. One, it > encourages the Watchers to do the very thing that they were > Outcasted for. Two, such breeding will inevitably lead to > Nephallim births. Suggested change; give them the > Corporeal Song of Fruition for free or w/o Disturbance. Ah, my aplogies. First of all, in this reality, Grigori were -mot- outcasted. They indulged for a while, but those Grigori were accused of an individual basis, as Asmodeus knew that it would not be Just to blanket-judge them. Second, Makatiel doesn't care about the potential of Nephallim, his Grigori are simply the ones who give the barren or impotent the ability to have a child they have alawyas wanted, promoting life. And wouldn't giving them the Song of ruitation be redundant? > This is quite powerful and highly abusable. Some > restriction is needed. Instead of a vague term like "they > always have a Vessel at hand," how about a free Vessel at a > level equal to the spirit's Corporeal Forces in level? If > they lose it, they either have to pay CP to replace it or > RP sweet-talking Makatiel for a new one. Yes, this was added in at the last moment and I neglected revision. Your suggested version is more what I had in mind, and will be used. Whats most important is that the Ethereal is now immune to Force loss from Trauma. >> Lifelight: > > Instead of every second, this should be worded "every > combat round" instead. Just to avoid confusion as to the > amount of damage dealt. *smacks head* sorry, I meant combat round ^_^ that was my GURPiness showing through again :D > > Seems OK. Side note: the naming convention for angelic > Distinctions is that the Vassal level carries the name of > the AA's Word. If this were canonical it would be Vassal > of Life. Your campaign, of course; YMMV. Yeah... except for Dominic. I did notice this in the book, but I feel more comfortable naming the ability after what it does, and not just resorting to the Word for it's name. Just a personal preference ^_^ > >> Knights of Life: This is a small group of celestials that >> serve Makatiel’s >> Word by assisting women who are giving birth. > > Personally, I think this is better as a Servitor > Attunement (which could be called Midwife). Yes, I was feeling the same way after I made this. I want Makatiel to have a few more attunements (anyone is welcome to suggest!), and this would make a good one instead of a distinction. It's just I have to be careful to not invade Genubath's territory of healing people. >> *Invocation Modifier* >> +1 Anything with one Corporeal Force >> +2 100 or more living people >> +3 A ritual to turn a living being undead >> +4 A human with 4 or more Corporeal Forces >> +5 The congregation of 100 or more undead >> +6 A dying Superior > > I like the +3 modifier; it makes sense that Makatiel > would be concerned with such rituals and would want to stop them. Thanks. Like I said, Makatiel is -very- anti-undead, to the point that he does not consider them to be a part of his dissonance conditions. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:25:16 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> even more OT post -- 'Metropolis' > >> >> >>And I think I know where Eli is. He's in Japan, writing anime, or at >>the >>very least helping somebody do it. >> >>I gotta agree there. And if you haven't seen the Japanese Anime movie >>"Metropolis", then you should. Magnificent piece of Anime Masterpiece. >> ::looks around... sees that no one else is going to say it:: *coughcough* NAUSICAA!!! Thank you. Josh (there was a point to this. See a Post-Armageddon world in which Jordi is working with Novalis to drain the world of the excess radiation leftover. See a Soldier of Janus who aspires to be an Ofanite. See a great story that Nybbas got his hands on and remade as Princess Mononoke. And see a really good anime done in the 80's by the same guy who has done Mononoke and Metropolis.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:27:06 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: Lightning and Illumination (Was: Re: IN> [DAWN]) > >On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 05:29 PM, Michael Walton wrote: >>> Lastly, at >>> this time the concept of Lightning as inspiration might >>> have been quite >>> strong in angelic thought, so an Elohite would make >>> sense. >> >> If this is the case, why has Jean mostly gotten away from >> inspiration in the modern era? Earth in IN needs more >> inspiration, not less. >> > >Ah! I can answer this one. The Archangel responsible for Knowledge died >in the battle against Legion. With Raphael's destruction, her role had >to be assumed by others. Jean has had to divide his energies, away from >pure inspiration and illumination, and towards the flow of science and >scientific process. This is especially true given Vapula's efforts to >pervert science into Hellish technology -- technology for it's own >sake, not mankind's. > Don't forget that one AA who originally was the bearer of Inspiration has suffered from Word Friction for 20,000 years and that another has been AWOL for 50 years. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:52:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: IN> Furfur (was Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN])) > Furfur -- I see no reason for him. Everything he > does, > some other DP does better (Cool? Valefor. > Destruction? > Baal, Belial, Haagenti and Saminga. Rock and Roll? > Nybbas. Hot, passionate raw earth-moving sex? > Andrealphus > and Lilith.). I would include Furfur IMC only for > canon completeness. > > ===== >

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

>

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends > and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." > -- Bishop David M. Copeland

Furfur is useful for the one thing that none of these do. He is extremism. He is "too much". Not gluttony, not greed. He is eleven on the amp of the Symphony. He is desensitization. He is overbearing. He is what causes a father to kill another father over a kids' hockey game. He is soccer hooligans. He is hatred, true hatred. He is obsession. He is berserker rage. He is the spoiler. He's not cool, he's so f**king hip he's disgusting(you know the person who took that trend just a little too far). He's not destruction, he's "beat that dead horse until it's mush and not recognizable as a horse any longer". He's not rock'n'roll, he's the loudest damned noise you'll ever, EVER hear. He's not sex, he's a snuff movie that uses sex as an excuse to murder. He is more human than human. The more I think about this the more I like Furfur. I believe his job isn't to buff up the ranks of Hell so much as cut off the supply lines of Heaven. He isn't supposed to be the extreme of Hell as I said above, it just so happens that he is. He seems best as the extreme of Heaven. Do whatever it takes to make people feel the overbearing force of Heaven and they won't want it anymore. Creation overloaded is a cancer. Wind overloaded is a hurricane. Too much Fire chokes itself off. Too much of anything and soon humans will reject it. Get humans to reject Heaven and they eventually come to Hell. Well, I hope this helps more than me because this little rant has definitely given Furfur a place IMC, which he didn't really have before. Jim __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:09:34 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Furfur (was Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN])) > Well, I hope this helps more than me because this > little rant has definitely given Furfur a place IMC, > which he didn't really have before. > > Jim This is a very good point about Furfur and the Word of Hardcore. I forgot to mention it, but I'm Hostile to Furfur in my subjective relations post, even if it's more of a gurdging respect and acknowledgement of his Word and it's poetential. He's an important player in my games (even if I am going to modify his write-up here and there), as the Word of Hardcore represents a lot more in celestial than it does in simple human terms. But you brought up a good reason why Furfur isn't just a fluff Prince. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:27:12 +0000 From: "carson young" Subject: Re: IN> Furfur (was Re: IN> Personal Impressions of Superiors (was [DAWN])) Yes, Yes, this makes sense. I can imagine Big Furry trying to find a position to fulfill, and just deciding to do things with that infernal touch that perverts anything imaginable. Any action at all, just so over the top and violent that it changes something that could be good into something totally, totally, evil. I could see people being transformed, unable to enjoy what they once loved, or going with it, becoming truly Hardcore. I think I'll have to bring him into my game now. Carson Young, habbalite of GM's > >Furfur is useful for the one thing that none of these >do. He is extremism. He is "too much". Not gluttony, >not greed. He is eleven on the amp of the Symphony. He >is desensitization. He is overbearing. He is what >causes a father to kill another father over a kids' >hockey game. He is soccer hooligans. He is hatred, >true hatred. He is obsession. He is berserker rage. He >is the spoiler. He's not cool, he's so f**king hip >he's disgusting(you know the person who took that >trend just a little too far). He's not destruction, >he's "beat that dead horse until it's mush and not >recognizable as a horse any longer". He's not >rock'n'roll, he's the loudest damned noise you'll >ever, EVER hear. He's not sex, he's a snuff movie that >uses sex as an excuse to murder. > >He is more human than human. > >The more I think about this the more I like Furfur. I >believe his job isn't to buff up the ranks of Hell so >much as cut off the supply lines of Heaven. He isn't >supposed to be the extreme of Hell as I said above, it >just so happens that he is. He seems best as the >extreme of Heaven. Do whatever it takes to make people >feel the overbearing force of Heaven and they won't >want it anymore. Creation overloaded is a cancer. Wind >overloaded is a hurricane. Too much Fire chokes itself >off. Too much of anything and soon humans will reject >it. Get humans to reject Heaven and they eventually >come to Hell. > >Well, I hope this helps more than me because this >little rant has definitely given Furfur a place IMC, >which he didn't really have before. > >Jim _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month.  Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:56:49 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN>Song of Fusion >--- Sirea Theyal wrote: > > *groan* I suppose next you'll be telling me that Dominic > > wears suspenders? > > [whine] Make it stop... > > ...before somebody points out that Ithrafel wears a thong. > I dunno, that's like saying that, were David not a nudist, given his love for working with his hands... Kamika-Z ..he were the boxer sort? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:46:17 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> What about Marc? "Wajenberg, Earl" wrote: > > Josh Moger wrote: > > "(which would explain the buddy/buddy feelings that Marc and Lilith have in > most fanfic, though I'm not sure about the possible canon of that.)" > > Aren't Marc and Lilith listed as nemeses in the core book? Or was it Marc > and Haagenti? Neither. Jordi and Haagenti. Marc and Nybbas. Lilith and No One. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 05:52:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: Makatiel, Elohite Archangel of Life - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > Yes, I am assuming that. Would a clause stating that the > being must have Forces -and- be sentient? Not necessarily, I just wanted some clarity here. > Nope, no killing at all. It would be too easy if demons > were free of it. Ah, so you were going for major screwage. 0;> > Sugestions? I try to meld the circular motion and being > of the Ofanite with > the process of life and exitence, thus allowing them to > -see- the motion of > life in a person, from start to motion to stop. I'm thinking, I'm thinking... > Well, it will be either way. If they detect a celestial, > it will read "will never die" for lifespan. The problem is that they can walk into a room and know who's Human and who's not without any doubt. No other power in IN offers that. > I should be more specific. These are needs of the body of > the individual, > not the persons mind. A fat guy may Need more food, but > the Lilim would be > able to sense that the body Needs to lose weight and > become healthy, and she will know just how to do that > best. That makes sense. > Really? Isn't the power of being able to possess any > corpse and have it look > like it was a perfectly healthy, live person, and not > take dissonanc for it being damaged not good enough? Ah! When you add in all that, it is indeed. > Makatiel doesn't care about the potential of > Nephallim, his Grigori are simply the ones who give the > barren or impotent > the ability to have a child they have alawyas wanted, > promoting life. The Corporeal Song of Fruition does that without producing Nephallim or requiring Grigori to engage in intimate relations with Mortals. > And > wouldn't giving them the Song of ruitation be redundant? Not at all. The _Celestial_ Song of Fruition is what allows Celestials to breed with Mortals. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"If you succeed, you will make some false friends and some true enemies. Succeed anyway." - -- Bishop David M. Copeland

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