in_nomine-digest Monday, October 28 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2837 In this digest: Re: IN> Just a thought. IN> Re: Malakite hunter IN> On Michael Re: IN> INverse Superior: Marc, Impudite Demon Prince of the Deal Re: IN> INverse Superior: Marc, Impudite Demon Prince of the Deal Re: IN> Project Silence - Jumpgates Re: IN> On Michael Re: IN> INverse Superior: Marc, Impudite Demon Prince of the Deal Re: IN> Project Silence - Jumpgates Re: IN> On Michael Re: IN> On Michael Re: IN> On Michael Re: IN> On Michael IN> relievers IN> [Fiction] Professional Courtesy (pt 3) Re: IN> INverse Superior: Marc, Impudite Demon Prince of the Deal Re: IN> INverse Superior: Marc, Impudite Demon Prince of the Deal Re: Stupid Ofanite on motorcycle tricks (was Re: IN> I don't think that I dare Crosspost this to Pyramid...) Re: IN> Songs about Choirs Re: IN> relievers IN> ... but It can also get you locked up... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:42:24 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Just a thought. At 02:07 AM 10/26/2002 -0600, ben@zianet.com wrote: >Michael defeated Lucifer and Heaven won the battle. Lucifer and his >angels did retreat into exile and imprisonment, after all. The aftermath >thousands of years later wasn't so nice, but at the time it was a decisive >victory for the forces of Heaven. Michael did not stop his brother and contemporary from leading a full third of the Heavenly Host into outright rebellion. *After* the rebellion, 100% of that full third were either dead or exiled "forever". I don't count that as winning. He might have defeated them, but he didn't win in my book. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 23:42:50 +1030 From: "G N E Z D A" Subject: IN> Re: Malakite hunter Actually, I'd like to see one for every choir too. That post had me laughing my nuts off! Yes, I do keep walnuts on my head, thank you very much. Actually, some parts of it make pretty good sense even in a 'canon' IN setting, and can be used in my campaign. :) (will sign off as my IN char from now on) Chip Wood :) - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 3/10/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 08:30:02 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: IN> On Michael It seems to me that the mythology of Michael centers not on how fast he runs or strong he lifts or even how well he fights. Michael is now and always has been the Champion of Heaven. He has never been defeated in battle. He has never lost a challenge. It would be a dark day if he ever did, because it would mean Heaven's Champion, predestined to face the Champion of Hell on the field of Armageddon was fallible. The outcome of that final battle would be in doubt, and Michael knows as well as any that doubt is simply unacceptable among the Host. When I'm puttering around In Nomine, Michael is eternally my heroic Machiavellian figure. For Michael, victory against Hell is the only possible end to the saga, and he can and will do anything short of Falling to achieve that victory. He is the Archangel of War -- the spirit of Holy Struggle, of the Messiah coming with sword in hand to retake Israel and the world. And he will. Not. Fail. Or so, at least, he says. And a majority of the Host agrees. They believe in Michael. Do I think Michael could win a footrace with Janus? Nope, not even close. Do I think he could complete a logic puzzle before Jean? Nuh-uh. He wouldn't even place. Do I think he could out-garden Novalis or outsing Eli? No and no again. But I don't think he would ever be in a position to lose those contests, because he would never involve himself in them. He knows better. He knows the impact a loss -- *any* loss -- would have on Heaven's morale, and so he stays out of such things. In Canon, he had a private fight with Laurence -- a duel with sword and axe. And he won. He did this to teach the Archangel of the Sword a lesson, apparently. We don't know how he won. I rather expect he did something the honorable Malakite would find *dis*honorable in the extreme. I rather expect that was the entire point of the exercise. However, in a true battle, it would be shocking if he *didn't* win, even when fighting Laurence, who is himself an Archangel of battle. He *is* War, after all. One of the nice elements of the Challenges of Michael we posted a year ago (give or take) was the variations on the theme -- true battles, on Michael's battlefield, to keep his battle edge sharp. In those (ignoring Iron Chef Celestial for a moment), it makes perfect sense that Michael wouldn't lose. His entire existence, his power and his strength are all devoted to claiming victory on that kind of battlefield. The challenge is to see the difference between those battles (which Michael could and should win, unless something is greatly wrong), and *contests,* (which Michael isn't guaranteed a victory in, and therefore likely avoids participating in out of a pragmatic need to keep his record clean). Michael, after all, isn't the honorable warrior that Laurence is. He isn't the solid, team-oriented warrior David is. He isn't the swift sword of battle Janus is. He isn't the stainless and pure warrior Uriel was. He is the Best, because he's willing to do whatever it takes to win the War. Even if that means staying out of the contest in the first place. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 05:30:15 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: Marc, Impudite Demon Prince of the Deal Good stuff. I was completely on board until... > Lilim: Seeing as Dark Lilim are in rare supply in Hell, > Marc hordes these > demons with a Djinn's possessiveness. When they strike up > a deal with > someone, the Lilim will know exactly what the target > wants from the deal in > the long run, and how much the target will put up with to > get what they want. This doesn't strike me as much of an improvement over the Lilim Resonance; if you know the level of a Need, you have a pretty good idea of how much they'll take to get the Need met. The long-term gain aspect is the only real improvement. > Shedim: Marc's Shedim may possess objects that have > monetary value above one > dollar on the common market. When they enter the object, > they must immediately begin to corrupt it. IOW, they cause depreciation. Interesting concept. But wouldn't false appreciation be better (i.e. they possess the object and make it _appear_ to be worth more)? Combine this with actual depreciation and it's a real winner. > Impudite: Every Impudite who serves Marc will > automatically get a Role when > they start play equal to their Celestial Forces in level, > and add half of > their Corporeal Forces as automatic Charisma. That's an awfully large Charisma bonus. Also, I'd go with the canonical Game Attunements as a model for this; a Role with the demon's CelForces in level doesn't take Status into account. A flat number of CP to apply to a Role works better. This also gives the demon the option of purchasing Charisma for the Vessel associated with that Role. > Deal with the Devil: With this attunement, the demon may > gamble with the > Symphony against his personal one, in an attempt to rape > it for his own > gain. For 1 Essence, the demon may take any roll he must > make and roll it > three times, but this rolled in -secret- by the GM! The > player then may > choose roll number one, two or three, an he must take the > one he chose and use it as his roll. Basically, three times the chance of an Intervention. Also three times the chance of success or failure. This one is of limited utility as written. Simpler and still in the spirit of what you've written: "For 1 Essence the demon may replace one die in any roll with a die rolled in secret by the GM. The player chooses which die is replaced. For example, the player may attempt to get a better CD on a successful roll by replacing a '1' with the GM roll. It is also possible to replace one die with a better one in order to beat the TN." > Captain of Accounts: The demon gains a permanent account > in his name > accessible from any ATM or bank on the corporeal plane, > into which 1,000 dollars is deposited everyday. That's a lot of spreading-around money to put in the hands of a PC. If the amount isn't smaller or the time increment larger, this can get unbalanced real fast. > Baron of Bullshit: When making a deal with someone, any > Fast-Talk, Emote, or > Seduction rolls the demon makes are considered automatic > successes, but roll > anyway to see the CD and for the possibility of > Interventions. I wouldn't let this apply to Seduction rolls unless there is a deal involved (i.e. prostitution, which is certainly under this Marc's Word). Come to think of it, that's a good restriction to apply to all three skills. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"There are two kinds of selfishness: the kind that says, 'I must do what will make me happy,' and the kind that says, 'You must do what will make me happy.' The first is good, the second is bad." - -- Kenton E. Sinner

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 05:34:18 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: Marc, Impudite Demon Prince of the Deal - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > Well, honestly, I wasn't planning on doing David myself > (well, at least for > now), and hoping that someone else may want and request > to. [sigh] OK, you twisted my arm. It'll be a few days, though. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"There are two kinds of selfishness: the kind that says, 'I must do what will make me happy,' and the kind that says, 'You must do what will make me happy.' The first is good, the second is bad." - -- Kenton E. Sinner

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 05:41:59 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Project Silence - Jumpgates Good stuff. But I presume that you meant to send it to the list and not just me? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"There are two kinds of selfishness: the kind that says, 'I must do what will make me happy,' and the kind that says, 'You must do what will make me happy.' The first is good, the second is bad." - -- Kenton E. Sinner

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:46:43 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> On Michael On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > was. He is the Best, because he's willing to do whatever it takes to > win the War. Even if that means staying out of the contest in the first > place. > *applauds* I couldn't agree more! I've always (well for as long as I've played IN and known about that version of Michael) held that Michal's dissonance condition isn't as dumb as it looks. Because it says absolutely nuffin' about having to jump _into_ fights of any sort at any time. It just says thast you can't jump _out_ once you've committed, on pain of Dissonance. A smart Michaelite will choose the right fights, and so will Michael. - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:54:23 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: Marc, Impudite Demon Prince of the Deal On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Michael Walton wrote: > > > Impudite: Every Impudite who serves Marc will > > and add half of > > their Corporeal Forces as automatic Charisma. > > That's an awfully large Charisma bonus. Is it? You get max +3 Charisma, and that's with 6 corp. forces (asuming that the numbers get rounded down as per normal). How many impudites are there with 6 corp. forces? I mean, they tend to be wimps... ;) OTOH, will this result in hordes of Deal-leeches running around with ultra-strong and ultra-agile bodies? Just to get to be ultra-charming? A disturbing thought... :) - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:57:50 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Project Silence - Jumpgates On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Michael Walton wrote: > Good stuff. But I presume that you meant to send it to > the list and not just me? > Hmm.. I got it too, and in the header it says that sender is owner-in_nomine..etc.. But it didn't get filtered into it's proper folder, so there's something strange here. Has Project Silence invaded mr Cleveland's email-system, perhaps? - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: 28 Oct 2002 15:11:08 +0100 From: Rens Houben Subject: Re: IN> On Michael On Mon, 2002-10-28 at 14:46, Unni Solaas wrote: > On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > *applauds* I couldn't agree more! I've always (well for as long as I've > played IN and known about that version of Michael) held that Michal's > dissonance condition isn't as dumb as it looks. Because it says absolutely > nuffin' about having to jump _into_ fights of any sort at any time. It > just says thast you can't jump _out_ once you've committed, on pain of > Dissonance. > A smart Michaelite will choose the right fights, and so will Michael. And *THAT* is the real point of the Dissonance condition. Not to punish those who retreat (although it does that too), but to teach his servitors to choose their battles carefully, lest you get in over your head with the only ways out being dissonance or having to ask for a new Vessel after you come out of Trauma. (Hmm, maybe that's the point behind more dissonance conditions. Hmm, nah. Probably not -- the others are a little more direct. Maybe David's helps teach his Servitors patience in the face of adversity. Then again, *coughFotMcough* it's a bit short-sighted at times...) (Hmm, that reminds me; being defeated is also not dissonant -- but is conceding defeat? As in e.g. chess, ceding the match when you can see the writing on the wall? I'd guess yes, but the wording isn't very clear) (And can SOMEONE please help getting the Shedite Demon of Going Off On Tangents out of my heads?) - -Shad - -- Rens Houben | opinions are mine Resident linux guru and sysadmin | if my employers have one Systemec Internet Services. |they'll tell you themselves PGP public key at http://suzaku.systemec.nl/shadur.key.asc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 9:31:24 -0500 From: "Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> On Michael >>Hmm, that reminds me; being defeated is also not dissonant -- but is conceding defeat? I would say that conceding defeat would be Dissonant since they are retreating from a battle without specific orders from a superior. However, I think that it would be easier to forgive Dissonance caused by that. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:36:53 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> On Michael On Monday, October 28, 2002, at 09:11 AM, Rens Houben wrote: > (Hmm, that reminds me; being defeated is also not dissonant -- but is > conceding defeat? As in e.g. chess, ceding the match when you can see > the writing on the wall? I'd guess yes, but the wording isn't very > clear) > I would say no, actually. (Well, except for Malakim of War, but duh.) The Dissonance Condition isn't "you must win every fight you're in," but "you must not retreat from the battle." If you acknowledge the superiority of your enemy and *surrender,* you are not in retreat. You are, of course, defeated utterly and the other Michaelites will make your life a living Hell before cheerfully suggesting you join up with Novalis, as conciliatory methods are her stock in trade.... - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:46:04 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> On Michael > Michael, after all, isn't the honorable warrior that Laurence is. He > isn't the solid, team-oriented warrior David is. He isn't the swift > sword of battle Janus is. He isn't the stainless and pure warrior Uriel > was. He is the Best, because he's willing to do whatever it takes to > win the War. Even if that means staying out of the contest in the first > place. Nicely done. I like how you captured the canny, cagey nature of Michael. I'm not sure how I feel about him avoiding contests, but it makes a lot of sense in your writeup. (I did this myself on certain deathmatch muds to keep my reputation intact, so it hits pretty close to home for me.) The thing I love that came out of this discussion is the idea that Michael cheats. Whoever said that Michael always knows what it takes to win any contest -- and must choose whether to do it or not -- posted something that was pure genius, and it'll definately enter my campaign. > Eric A. Burns Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:03:25 EST From: TWISTEDKUB@aol.com Subject: IN> relievers Hi All-- I am new to the list! I live in Boston and have just started running a weekly In Nomine campaign (my first experience with GMing, actually) I have some questions about relievers. In the original (hardcover) rules, it says (in the description of relievers near the back of the book) that it isn't required for relievers to own vessels. Or something to that effect. Anyway--I am planning on bringing a reliever as an (annoying) NPC "mascot" for my group of PC's. He's going to be assigned to the group to continue his "education"...i.e., learning what it means to be a real, full-fledged angel (which he hopes to be, of course, some day). Since relievers don't need vessels, does this mean that he can just zip around the corporeal realm in his celestial form? Without causing disturbance in the Symphony? I was hoping to save some "character points" (i.e. while building him) by NOT getting him a vessel...so if relievers truly doesn't need vessels, that would be great. Very unusual, but great. Thanks Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:40:17 -0400 From: Archangel Beth Subject: IN> [Fiction] Professional Courtesy (pt 3) >Among other reasons, it didn't seem to be stopping. And indeed, it didn't. Betharan picked out three vessel-shifts, two Ethereal Form Songs, and a Numinous Corpus along the way. She wished for some Ethereal Shields, but they managed to climb up a handy fire-escape without another Song of Thunder, and made it to the top of a building that overlooked the rent-a-storage-garage where the battle seemed to be raging. There was a dead body there, black-feathered wings crumpled and fading even as she eyed it, and an extraordinary amount of blood around the gaping wound across the chest. From the annoyed expression, she surmised that the blackwing had flown up to try a little Corporeal Healing, and muffed it. Carefully, she joined her partner where he lay at the edge of the roof, and peeked over the top. The scene of mayhem was, quite frankly, better than she'd ever achieved on her own, even in the arenas. At least three more bodies were strewn about, torn open like Christmas presents, and the half-dozen combatants looked as if they'd been rolling in blood, with no way to tell who owned how much of it. And in the center, a lean, slightly androgynous figure in a probably-brown trenchcoat. He held a red-bladed sword in one hand, and the other hand was loosely wrapped around a chain that led -- Betharan saw as he turned lazily to keep a different one of his opponents in view -- to a manacle around the wrist there. His short hair was probably black, but stiff and spiky with gore, and his fine, parchment-white skin was piebald red. Aside from the over-use of red, he matched the sketch they had of Timon's primary vessel. Betharan felt her Discord of bloodlust churning in her belly, and could almost taste the copper of it in her mouth. She couldn't decide whether she was impressed, afraid, or appallingly turned on, and decided to pretend to none of the above. A pair of the encircling attackers -- red-haired woman and Asian man -- started their runs at the Balakite, leaning forward and holding swords in their hands. (Amusingly, it was the red-head with the katana, and the Asian with a gladius, but Betharan magnanimously avoided yelling out corrections.) Red-head aimed for high, and Asian for low, but Timon was faster than either, stepping back and spinning in a fluid motion to parry the red-head with his sword, while a seemingly casual swing of his left hand entangled the gladius, yanking it -- and its owner -- to one side. Then his slim booted foot encountered the red-head's stomach, kicking her into the arms of attacker number three (a burly black man with a club), even as he brought his sword down on the Asian's arm, sending that one retreating out of range. Attacker number four (a bronzed surfer babe, with a very large axe) somehow wound up tumbling through the air -- until Timon's left-hand chain caught her around the ankle like a whip and diverted her momentum into an asphalt bellyflop. Number five (wearing the remnants of a dinner jacket) took the opportunity to blaze away with a large handgun, and Betharan distinctly saw bullets impact and ping away. *Nice Song of Corporeal Form there,* she thought. *Wish I had that...* Timon then twitched aside, and lashed the chain out around... something, that Betharan's eyes flinched away from, and she mentally determined that the Balakite was far too perceptive to sneak up on with Ethereal Form. *Scratch that idea.* Then she winced as his sword came down on the whatever it was, and a pair of daggers clattered on the pavement as the shadowy whatever-it-had was spun out of the chain like a blood-fountaining top. "Huh," Tebah grunted as the attackers (angels, presumably) regrouped and edged around to get better positioning. "Looks like you, partner." "Huh," she mock-grunted back at him, softly. "I'm nowhere near that good." Just as the angels prepared for another rush, Timon ducked down himself, springing at Dinner Jacket as he reloaded his gun. The chain slapped Dinner Jacket's gun to the side, firing uselessly in the air (Betharan ducked reflexively), while Timon's sword came down. Surfer Babe and Asian leaped to defend their fellow -- or at least take advantage of the Balakite's focus -- but he ducked under the axe and curved just enough that the Asian's gladius was passing between Timon's arm and body. There was just enough time for a certain annoyed expression to bloom, and then Timon's sword-hilt was slamming into the Asian's face. The Balakite straightened, momentarily, and Betharan hoped that he wouldn't see that Dinner Jacket, behind him, had scooped up one of the shadow-formed casualty's knives (one handed, the other pressed against the sucking wound in his chest) and was lunging. Alas for their job being done by others, Timon spun in time, extending his sword in a stop-thrust. The angel didn't even try to abort, but slammed himself onto the blade with a hum of Essence, the knife slashing for the Balakite's chest. Timon let him get to the hilt, fending off the dagger with his wrist-manacle, and yanked the sword enough for more of the angel's blood to spatter onto him. Then he jerked back, leaving the sword behind as he flailed the wrist-chain in a wicked pattern to keep the angels away. Confirming the theory that the lot of them were Malakim, that chain didn't do _much_ to keep them away. But it was enough that, when the black man closed, he staggered away with his chest ripped up by Timon's quickly-sung Claws. *I'm either in love, or I want to run screaming,* Betharan thought, closing her gaping mouth. She'd analyzed his fighting style, all right, and come up with, "Blessed fast, blessed strong, and blessed skilled.* Clearly Virtue-hunting resulted in high skills -- either that, or Timon was on a kick of More Malakite Than Thou. *I think Stace was trying to get rid of me, disguised as a mission of honor...* Asian, one eye swollen shut, and Red-Head coordinated again, while the shimmering snarl of Dinner Jacket's vessel-shift rent the Symphony. This time, the Asian failed to dodge the chain, wrapping around his neck from his blind side, and was yanked into Red-head's way. She barely avoided chopping his arm off, and her katana struck sparks on the ground. She might as well have avoided the damage to it, since Timon closed in on the Asian, lifting him up by the chain while the other clawed hand plunging up to get at the heart or lungs from below the ribcage. Blood geysered down, blinding Timon long enough that the black man's club connected with the Balakite's long thigh. Timon staggered, but lashed that wicked chain around the club, giving himself the precious second to wipe the blood from his eyes. His counterattack was mostly blocked from Betharan by the angel's broad body, but it apparently involved a snapkick to the groin and something nasty with the claws, as the angel staggered away, clutching at the spray of blood coming from his half-severed neck. This time, Timon turned so that his eyes weren't caught by the blood-shower. Dinner Jacket's other vessel -- an attractive Hispanic in a dress more suited for dancing than battle -- had apparently already been wounded, for one arm dangled uselessly. The other, however, grasped Red-Head's katana, while Red-Head held Timon's long, slender sword. Ex-Dinner Jacket made her run at the Balakite, with Red-Head three paces behind and ducking low. Ex-Dinner Jacket was actually good with the katana, scoring a line along Timon's already-wounded thigh before the chain wrapped itself around her body and pulled her into the closer combat where the blade had no leverage. But the angel dropped the katana, stepping in closer still and grabbing the Balakite's free wrist, pressing her body against his and trapping his chain between them. Betharan wondered briefly if the angel were trying to bite the demon's throat out -- and then Red-Head was thrusting Timon's long sword _through_ her fellow's back, burying it to the hilt. Timon hunched slightly as the tip of the blade protruded from his lower back. He shoved the dying angel away, freeing his chain to let her body fall to the ground. Red-Head pulled the sword free, her face set in cold concentration. Timon made a dive for the dropped katana, and parried Red-Head's strike. The pair fenced back and forth, the angel pressing the attack, forcing Timon onto his twice-wounded leg whenever possible. Beside Betharan, Tebah pulled out the special gun they'd requisitioned, loaded it, and handed it to her. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:30:19 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: Marc, Impudite Demon Prince of the Deal Michael Walton writes: > Good stuff. I was completely on board until... > >>Dark Lilim: > > This doesn't strike me as much of an improvement over the > Lilim Resonance; if you know the level of a Need, you have > a pretty good idea of how much they'll take to get the Need > met. The long-term gain aspect is the only real > improvement. I know. In truth, when it comes to Lilim, I always flop on attunements. The best I can usuall come up with is a bonus to resonance or "can detect X Need that relates to Word automatically". With Marc's Lilim, I simply wanted to make them able to see the depths and nuances of a Need, instead of just the Need and fulfilling it. As for knowing how much they'll put up with, this can be an advantage by saving the Lilim time and work. You can push them to the limit of getting what they want, and they do the rest that they aren't willing to do, -and- you'll know why they're doing this and so on. > >> Shedim: > > IOW, they cause depreciation. Interesting concept. But > wouldn't false appreciation be better (i.e. they possess > the object and make it _appear_ to be worth more)? Combine > this with actual depreciation and it's a real winner. That is a good idea... but at the same time, wouldn't making it seem like more make no sense if it's worth less? Unless it you think of material goods...I'll toggle with this and put that up. Thanks for the suggestion. > >> Impudite: > > That's an awfully large Charisma bonus. Also, I'd go > with the canonical Game Attunements as a model for this; a > Role with the demon's CelForces in level doesn't take > Status into account. A flat number of CP to apply to a > Role works better. This also gives the demon the option of > purchasing Charisma for the Vessel associated with that > Role. Is it reallt too much charisma? Considering the average Impudite (which is not going to be a 6 CorForce monster, especially in the Deal's service), this will only be a +1, and at best a +2, which isn't a ton, but gives a nice edge in a deal. But your right about the status and role... maybe bonus points around 12 or more for a free role, and then the charisma bonus. > >> Deal with the Devil: > Basically, three times the chance of an Intervention. > Also three times the chance of success or failure. This > one is of limited utility as written. Simpler and still in > the spirit of what you've written: > > "For 1 Essence the demon may replace one die in any roll > with a die rolled in secret by the GM. The player chooses > which die is replaced. For example, the player may attempt > to get a better CD on a successful roll by replacing a '1' > with the GM roll. It is also possible to replace one die > with a better one in order to beat the TN." Ah! This is much more what I was trying to do! Very good. Basically, I was trying to make the player strike up a deal with the Devil (the GM), on gambling with the Symphony for a better result. This is complex enough without being too much of a headache, and it isn't overpowered. Stolen :D > >> Captain of Accounts: The demon gains a permanent account >> in his name >> accessible from any ATM or bank on the corporeal plane, >> into which 1,000 dollars is deposited everyday. > > That's a lot of spreading-around money to put in the > hands of a PC. If the amount isn't smaller or the time > increment larger, this can get unbalanced real fast. Is it? That's 1,000 a day. 365 days a corporeal year, so that's 365,000 dollars, which is what a decent business man would make in a year, if not much less conidering how many cook the books and so on. There aren't many Captains either I would think... but maybe you have a point. Maybe a simple 100 a day would work better. > >> Baron of Bullshit: When making a deal with someone, any >> Fast-Talk, Emote, or >> Seduction rolls the demon makes are considered automatic >> successes, but roll >> anyway to see the CD and for the possibility of >> Interventions. > > I wouldn't let this apply to Seduction rolls unless there > is a deal involved (i.e. prostitution, which is certainly > under this Marc's Word). Come to think of it, that's a > good restriction to apply to all three skills. Well, in this case it's up to the common sense of the GM and player really. Your not going to use Seduction in a high powered business meeting with the CEO of a japanese business firm. But Seduction has it's place in a deal just as much as the other two skills... I even left out Lying, just for balance, even if that has a -huge- place in making deals. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (and being ridden by a Renegade Shedite of the Game) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:35:00 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: Marc, Impudite Demon Prince of the Deal Michael Walton writes: > --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: >> Well, honestly, I wasn't planning on doing David myself >> (well, at least for >> now), and hoping that someone else may want and request >> to. > > [sigh] OK, you twisted my arm. It'll be a few days, though. *laughs* wow, really Mike? Thanks ^_^; Um... I should mention something though. I was going to make two versions of David, a Djinn version, and a Honorite version (I forgot who made it, but that writeup of a Prince of Unity David was excellent). The Djinn version is for people who don't want Fallen Malaks in their game (Laurence will have an alternate Impudite version, and Uriel will have an alternae Balseraph version). So... it's up to you which version who want to write, or both even if you really feel the desire to. The Word filtered though a Djinn and an Honorite will be quite different I'd imagine. But again, no matter what you decide to do, thanks a bunch :D --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (and being ridden by a Renegade Shedite of the Game) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:19:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Stupid Ofanite on motorcycle tricks (was Re: IN> I don't think that I dare Crosspost this to Pyramid...) At 10:48 PM -0400 10/25/02, Walter Milliken wrote: >Then there was my Windy Ofanite, who has Lasso skill (this was run under >GURPS IN). She (at the time) dropped said lasso around the neck of a rather >annoying Bal while riding past at about 30 mph, then gunned the cycle. He neglects to mention that Cori was on top of a platform about two stories up, in the trees. Good thing the Bal had that spare vessel... - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:20:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Songs about Choirs At 11:07 PM -0400 10/25/02, Randy Finder wrote: >I was listening to LA song by Beth Hart on the radio. [NOTE: The thread has not _yet_ turned into a Forbidden Music Thread. At least, this post isn't one. QUITE. Please, everyone who replies (if any), make sure that it does NOT turn into a Forbidden Music Thread. Thank you.] - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:26:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> relievers At 12:03 PM -0500 10/28/02, TWISTEDKUB@aol.com wrote: >I have some questions about relievers. In the original (hardcover) rules, it >says (in the description of relievers near the back of the book) that it >isn't required for relievers to own vessels. Or something to that effect. Relievers are small enough that they don't need to have vessels; the Symphony does not reject their cute little celestial forms the way it eventually spits out fledged celestials. Why? Pedantically expound on the nature of full fledged angels as facets of the Symphony and how the light and music of it "warps" when they're not in the place they should be, but relievers are little gracenotes and can therefore wander around just about anywhere. >Since relievers don't need >vessels, does this mean that he can just zip around the corporeal realm in >his celestial form? Without causing disturbance in the Symphony? Yes, and yes. He WILL be visible, potentially (as per the rules for seeing celestial forms), and he WILL be vulnerable to celestial attack. You will have to decide if he has a Heart (or, indeed, if relievers even _can_ have Hearts), what happens when everyone else gets in a car (is he left behind or can he "fix" his position relative to a moving corporeal object when he is noncorporeal), and other such things, mind. (You might consider giving him the Bound Discord, even, for some item that the group can carry around -- or a relic that duplicates the handy parts of that without the troublesome parts; a modified Force Catcher, perhaps.) Have fun..... O:> - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:33:34 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan M Roth Subject: IN> ... but It can also get you locked up... Don't know if this serious or not -- it was inspired by a Jim Carrey movie. --Ryan R. ************************************************************************** TRUTH Serum (Corporeal artifact/relic) At first blush, one might think that this was the brainchild of some collection of Seraphs, possibly Jean's crew. One would be wrong. TRUTH Serum one of the many useful products of Vapula's BioSciences Division (motto: A Better Hell though BIOCHEMISTY!). The project leader whose group developed it was rewarded with a Captain distintion for it, mainly because it gives Hell another means to reinforce an old point: On Earth, even the Truth can be made to serve Hell. Naturally, mentioning this particular artifact has been known to cause uncontrolable twitching in Seraphs. Particulary Servitors of Revelation. TRUTH Serum appears as an odorless, colorless, slightly sticky fluid. One syringe of the stuff is equivalent to one dose. To be used, the Serum must be either injected into the bloodstream or ingested. Either will work, but, if ingested, the substance will take one hour to activate. It cannot be used on Celestial forms, but will work on Celestials in Vessels. Once active, the victim of the Serum (yes, victim is the appropriate word) will be unable to lie to anyone. Moreover, when asked a question -- any question -- the victim must make a Will roll (with a penalty equal to the level of the Serum used) to avoid telling the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the Truth. The victim will go into explict detail about everything he or she knows even remotely relating to the question asked, saying Everything he or she believes to be True about the subject. The victim will only stop talking if he has said everything he knows, is physically retrained from talking, or is asked another question (which will cause another deluge of information). Answering questions takes precedence to all other activities, with the exception of actions which immediately preserve the victim's life (dodging gunfire, for example). The Serum remains active in a person's system for one day plus (Serum Level - Corporeal Forces, minimum zero) days. If the victim is mortal, every time he fails a Will roll a single note of Distrubance is sounded, as proof that Celestials are directly and dramaticaly interfering in what he says. Hell has used the Serum in a variety of ways, most notably for interrogation and the dramatic destruction of polictial careers (the demons over at the Media appreciate a head's up when you plan to do this - -- they want to make sure all the right cameras are there). In addition, more than one Soldier of God has been carted off to the looney bin after describing to his neighbors how, last night, he fought off a pack of demons with the help of an angel than can run really fast and another angel that possesses peoples bodies (neighbor's question: "Whatcha been up to lately, Bill?") It is for this last use that Asmodeus has placed all use of TRUTH Serum under his strict supervision -- it wouldn't do to have the eniter War become public ahead of schedule. Because of this, TRUTH Serum is a very rare possesion and its fabrication method is classified (i.e., it's a plot device, not a character resource). On the Heavenly side of things, angels of Lightning have been able to reverse engineer the substance from captured samples, and test have shown that it works equally well on Soldiers of Hell and demon vessels. Avaiablity is still quite restricted, as per Jean's orders. Hell may have the last word on this front, however. At Asmodeus's direction, the BioSciences division is close to refining the formula. TRUTH Serum X, when developed, would be able to affect Celestial forms, would carry twice the Will penalty, and would cause the victim 2 Body and 1 Mind hit per hour it was in effect due to system degradation. Asmodeus has firmly marked TRUTH Serum X as 'For Game Interrogation Unit Use Only', which means you are on his list for even reading this. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2837 ********************************