in_nomine-digest Friday, November 1 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2842 In this digest: Re: IN> Dark Humor Productions Presents: Fate, Lies, and the Bals eraphic Way Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... Re: IN> The Fall of Kobal? Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... RE: IN> The Angel of College Football Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... RE: IN> The Angel of College Football Deaf to the symphony (RE: IN> The Angel of College Football) Re: Deaf to the symphony (RE: IN> The Angel of College Football) Re: Deaf to the symphony (RE: IN> The Angel of College Football) Re: Deaf to the symphony (RE: IN> The Angel of College Football) RE: IN> Empty Cathedrals... Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... Re: IN> The Word of College Football Re: Deaf to the symphony (RE: IN> The Angel of College Football) Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... IN> S.W.A.K. -- the Couriers IN> Fallen Superiors and Such Re: IN> S.W.A.K. -- the Couriers IN> Fallen Superiors - GMG Says RE: IN> Fallen Superiors and Such RE: IN> Fallen Superiors and Such RE: IN> Fallen Superiors - GMG Says RE: IN> Fallen Superiors and Such ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:00:42 -0500 From: Robb Kidd Subject: Re: IN> Dark Humor Productions Presents: Fate, Lies, and the Bals eraphic Way Wajenberg, Earl wrote: > I assume duck tape adheres to celestials better than duct tape would?... Sure it would. Duck tape is designed to adhere to oily feathers and their owners. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:09:09 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... > So, maybe they left a chapel or some such behind, but not a whole cathedral. The only reference I could find were about ancient "precincts" for the Fallen Archangels and the empty Cathedral of Purity as well as the Halls of Creation. > As for Beleth, I think she used to live in the tower that is now Blandine's > alone. Beleth had her own Tower in Heaven that joined with Blandine's. When the Rebellion happened, the Tower of Fear was destroyed. > (Picture an angry Blandine dropping Beleth's gym bag, CD collection, > knick-knack cabinet, etc. into Hell after her old roomie moves out so > precipitately.) But she still keeps a few things to remind her of happier times. Like the strip of photos that they paid a dollar for in a booth. -:-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:14:49 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> The Fall of Kobal? Unni Solaas writes: > http://www.matazone.co.uk/halloween_special_2002.html > > This is disturbing and requires Flash. :) > Disturbing doesn't begin to describe it O_O;; that looks like an acute case of Kobal starting to really become depressed. Or just bored as all Hell. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:24:40 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... >How many Empty (in some way) Cathedrals are there in Heaven? (My information is coming from GURPS: In Nomine, and Superiors 3 in the case of Beleth.) >Lucifer: I don't know if its completely canon, but I've seen a lot talking >about it. The Cathedral of Light exists -- but is not visited. >Oannes: I've seen something about "the grotto", but I'm not sure there is >anything official about a Cathedral within it. Oannes' Grotto _is_ his Cathedral. >Eli: More or less abandoned, but still one of the wierder places in >heaven. The Halls of Creation; empty and in disarray. >Uriel: His cathedral stayed as well, right? The Castle of Purity, empty except for old trophies and banners. Also Raphael's "study chambers and lecture halls," associated with the Library. >Cathedrals for the other original DPs? >While Magog, Vephar & Baal were original DPs, they were not AA's reporting >to David, Oannes and Michael respectively, I think. >This leaves >Andrealphus (Cathedral of Love?) >Kobal (Cathedral of Laugher?) >Beleth (the B/B tower) Beleth and Blandine had a shared Tower, which was shattered during the first Fall. Each of them built their own Tower thereafter. >Mariel (Cathedral of Memory?) > >Ideas for any of these? Other than the Cathedral of Light, G:IN only makes oblique reference to "the Cathedrals of the Fallen." It also mentions the Cathedrals of the Grigori Archangels, plural. >Randolph Finder William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:35:01 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... >As for Beleth, I think she used to live in the tower that is now Blandine's >alone. (Picture an angry Blandine dropping Beleth's gym bag, CD collection, >knick-knack cabinet, etc. into Hell after her old roomie moves out so >precipitately.) > >Earl I thought it was canon that their Tower was fell during the Rebellion, then each built a new tower (or it could have been Beleth's side that fell. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:40:11 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> The Angel of College Football > With a well-placed song, he put the > idea in Gallaudet University's coach's mind to form a huddle to call > plays. Not to nitpick an excellent write-up to death, but I don't think a song would have exactly been necessary -- the Gallaudet Bisons being composed almost entirely of deaf and hard-of-hearing students. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:37:10 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... William J. Keith writes: >>How many Empty (in some way) Cathedrals are there in Heaven? From what I've read and gathered, this is how it goes- Fallen Cathedrals Lucifer (Cathedral of Light) Kobal (???) Andrealphus (???) Beleth (Tower of Fear) Magog and Malphas served David, Baal served (Lucife? Michael?), Belial served Gabriel, Asmodeus served Dominic (after the Fall I assume, when Dominic became a Superior), I'm not sure who Saminga served, Vepahr served Oannes and Fell after the Rebellion (I think), Mariel wasn't a Superior, Beelzebub wasn't a Superior, Gebbeleth wasn't a Superior, (who did they serve though?). Dead Cathedrals Uriel (Castle of Purity, somewhere in the Groves?) Oannes (Oannes Grotto) Rapahel (???, somewhere underground the Eternal City along with Yves Library) Outcast Cathedrals Azrael, the nonCanon Grigori AA of Death (???) Song, the somewhatCanon Grigori AA of Song that's all I know --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:52:35 -0500 From: Joe Reimers Subject: RE: IN> The Angel of College Football I'm aware of that...and Gallaudet University did, in fact, invent the huddle. That's why a *song* (something along the lines of the Ethereal Song of Tongues, but available to humans) had to be used instead of a verbal suggestion. J At 11:40 AM 11/1/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > With a well-placed song, he put the > > idea in Gallaudet University's coach's mind to form a huddle to call > > plays. > > Not to nitpick an excellent write-up to death, but I don't think a song >would have exactly been necessary -- the Gallaudet Bisons being composed >almost entirely of deaf and hard-of-hearing students. > >-- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:01:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: Deaf to the symphony (RE: IN> The Angel of College Football) On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Chris Bergstresser wrote: > > With a well-placed song, he put the > > idea in Gallaudet University's coach's mind to form a huddle to call > > plays. > > Not to nitpick an excellent write-up to death, but I don't think a song > would have exactly been necessary -- the Gallaudet Bisons being composed > almost entirely of deaf and hard-of-hearing students. Just becuase they are coprorally deaf doesn't mean they are deaf to effects of the symphony. Now if you had people who were completely deaf to the symphony (including attempts by demons to impose the demon's symphony on them), could be intersting... Randy > > -- Chris > > - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:11:53 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: Deaf to the symphony (RE: IN> The Angel of College Football) At 12:01 PM 11/1/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Just becuase they are coprorally deaf doesn't mean they are deaf to >effects of the symphony. I think the point was that since the players suffered from hearing loss, a huddle is one of the very few ways to effectively communicate information to them without letting everybody else know what you're doing, and if I'm reading right, then Mr. Bergstresser is simply reluctant to ascribe to celestial interference what can easily be ascribed to natural expediency. (This is a view with which I usually agree, FWIW.) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:22:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: Re: Deaf to the symphony (RE: IN> The Angel of College Football) On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, EDG wrote: > At 12:01 PM 11/1/2002 -0400, you wrote: > > >Just becuase they are coprorally deaf doesn't mean they are deaf to > >effects of the symphony. > > I think the point was that since the players suffered from hearing loss, a > huddle is one of the very few ways to effectively communicate information > to them without letting everybody else know what you're doing, and if I'm > reading right, then Mr. Bergstresser is simply reluctant to ascribe to > celestial interference what can easily be ascribed to natural > expediency. (This is a view with which I usually agree, FWIW.) > Yup. Not everything neat idea introduced to the Mortal Realm is provided by Angels. Just like every wierd and bizarre thing that occurs in the Natural realm is not caused by Eli or Kobal. (though Eli you have to wonder. :) Randy > -EDG > > - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:36:52 -0500 From: Joe Reimers Subject: Re: Deaf to the symphony (RE: IN> The Angel of College Football) Football history lesson (thanks to the Sports Information Department at Gallaudet, circa 1994) The huddle was invented by Gallaudet because in days of yore, coaches would call in plays using code words and whatnot or having a substitute bring the play in. Gallaudet did this as well, but had to communicate by using sign language. Gallaudet's opponents quickly figured out what was going on, so they had assistant coaches or student assistants who could read sign language intercept the signals and relay the call to their own team, giving Gallaudet's opponents an unfair advantage. In response, Gallaudet began to huddle, using the other players to mask the sign language, which is why the first huddles were a circle (rather than the rows some teams use today.) At 12:11 PM 11/1/2002 -0500, you wrote: >At 12:01 PM 11/1/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >>Just becuase they are coprorally deaf doesn't mean they are deaf to >>effects of the symphony. > >I think the point was that since the players suffered from hearing loss, a >huddle is one of the very few ways to effectively communicate information >to them without letting everybody else know what you're doing, and if I'm >reading right, then Mr. Bergstresser is simply reluctant to ascribe to >celestial interference what can easily be ascribed to natural >expediency. (This is a view with which I usually agree, FWIW.) > >-EDG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 01:51:55 +0800 From: "Manny Nepomuceno" Subject: RE: IN> Empty Cathedrals... Hey, Interesting topic. Some points: > >>How many Empty (in some way) Cathedrals are there in Heaven? > > From what I've read and gathered, this is how it goes- > > Fallen Cathedrals > > Kobal (???) Kobal was never an Archangel. He was merely the Angel of Laughter, given a special mission by God. No Cathedral for him. > Magog and Malphas served David, Magog, yes. Malphas was ONCE a Servitor of David, but became an Archangel at some point before the Fall. GMG p. 92, "100 million B.C.: Malphas, Gabriel and David (all Archangels now)..." His pre-Fall Word has never, to my knowledge, been given in Canon. I'd say it has something to do with division (of tectonic plates, which is what he did when the world was being created) but no official Word has been given. Baal served (Lucife? > Michael?), Baal was Archangel of Valor. (And yes, WTF???) Superiors 3, p.50. Belial > served Gabriel, Asmodeus served Dominic (after the Fall I > assume, when > Dominic became a Superior), Nope. Asmodeus was a servant of Dominic but not a full-fledged Servitor. Dominic assigned him to keep tabs on the Archangel of Light, who'd been behaving strangely. I'm not sure who Saminga served, > Vepahr served > Oannes and Fell after the Rebellion (I think) While I feel that you're right about Vephar, the IPG indicates that he Fell along with the rest of Lucifer's horde. He was merely the Angel of Sailors, though, and one of Oannes's most favored Servitors. , Mariel wasn't > a Superior, The IPG names her former Angel of Memory, so it looks like you're right :) > Beelzebub wasn't a Superior, Gebbeleth wasn't a Superior, > (who did they > serve though?). Nothing in canon about it yet. Although you might want to revise that to a query about Demogorgon, who predated Beelzebub as holder of the Word of Corruption. Nothing in canon about Genubath. Mammon wasn't an Archangel before the Fall, so no Cathedral for him...hmmm. Did we miss anyone? > Dead Cathedrals > > Uriel (Castle of Purity, somewhere in the Groves?) > Oannes (Oannes Grotto) > Rapahel (???, somewhere underground the Eternal City along with Yves > Library) > > Outcast Cathedrals > > Azrael, the nonCanon Grigori AA of Death (???) > Song, the somewhatCanon Grigori AA of Song Gabriel's Cathedral belongs in this category, in fact if not name. :) That's it for now. ;) Manny Neps http://www.geocities.com/angeloffools ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:03:33 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... ::sound of reading reading reading... smack:: > >Nothing in canon about it yet. Although you might want to revise that >to a query about Demogorgon, who predated Beelzebub as holder of the >Word of Corruption. > What? Since when? Demogorgon was given the Word of Destruction before he was slapped down to his composite Forces by Belial. As far as canon goes, or so I understand, Corruption has been held by Beelzebub and Legion, no others. I'd be willing to say (non-canon light turned on) that Beelzebub was a Hellborn just like Genubath. >Nothing in canon about Genubath. I swear to Yves that I didn't see that line until after I typed my last sentence in the above paragraph (Seraph of Coincidence pings him as *truthful*). Josh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:25:37 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Word of College Football Yet another example of how stuff that's not obviously important to the Human condition can be of use in the War. Thanks muchly! =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"There are two kinds of selfishness: the kind that says, 'I must do what will make me happy,' and the kind that says, 'You must do what will make me happy.' The first is good, the second is bad." - -- Kenton E. Sinner

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:30:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: Deaf to the symphony (RE: IN> The Angel of College Football) - --- Randy Finder wrote: > > Not to nitpick an excellent write-up to death, but I > don't think a song > > would have exactly been necessary Perhaps not, but a well-utilized Ethereal Tongues can leave someone with the notion that the implanted thought is his or her own idea. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"There are two kinds of selfishness: the kind that says, 'I must do what will make me happy,' and the kind that says, 'You must do what will make me happy.' The first is good, the second is bad." - -- Kenton E. Sinner

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:33:23 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Empty Cathedrals... - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > Azrael, the nonCanon Grigori AA of Death (???) The Angel of Death is canon (he's mentioned in Night Music in Druiel's write-up). No canon word yet on name or Choir. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"There are two kinds of selfishness: the kind that says, 'I must do what will make me happy,' and the kind that says, 'You must do what will make me happy.' The first is good, the second is bad." - -- Kenton E. Sinner

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 15:53:57 -0500 (EST) From: Diane J Donaldson Subject: IN> S.W.A.K. -- the Couriers Gabriel turned to the Ofanite, eyes blazing with flame. "You will be my messenger, little wheel. Will you take my message and keep it safe until it is time? WILL YOU?" She reached for his face. Nodding, the Ofanite closed his eyes as Gabriel leaned towards him, and he began to feel a heat that he had never imagined -- how could he? Fire had always been his friend. Her kiss was pain and molten flame and something else that flickered and vanished between them. He felt her withdraw, and as tears streamed down his face, he opened his eyes to see her tired, her fires banked. She turned and left without another word. He knew what he would see when he next looked in the mirror -- the imprint of her lips on his forehead, a mark that would set him apart from his kindred, perhaps forever. "I'd better invest in a few hats," he thought to himself, wiping away his tears. ======================================================================== An Ofanite of Fire who receives Gabriel's special kiss is known as a Courier by other Servitors of Fire. Three or four may be so marked every fifty years; there are less than a hundred altogether. Though Ofanim are normally immune to all of Fire's effects, the giving of the kiss *burns*. This may be why Gabriel only marks Ofanim -- perhaps they are the only one of her choirs that could withstand such heat. The mark is visible somewhere on any form the angel takes, though it can be hidden. If a Courier's vessel is possessed by another being, the mark fades quickly, reappearing only when the Courier is again in residence. On a human vessel it looks like scar tissue from an old burn; on animal vessels it is burnt fur or feathers -- and it is always on the face. On an Ofanite's celestial form it shows as a small dark spot on one of its rings. No one is certain what secrets Gabriel is passing on to her Ofanim, but Soldekai has several guesses. Perhaps they are memories or important knowledge that Gabriel is afraid to lose in her madness -- when she regains her sanity, they can be retrieved. Or perhaps they are messages that will be triggered when the Ofanite meets the right individual. What Soldekai has begun to suspect and fear is that they are divine prophecies - -- that Gabriel has begun to censor herself in some cases, to refuse her role as a heavenly prophet. Although Soldekai is certain that she must have good and sufficient reason for doing so -- if that is indeed what she is doing -- he wonders what a prophecy might contain that could drive her to withhold it. And what if Gabriel has begun to receive prophecies not only from God, but from ... elsewhere? It does not bear thinking about. Yet. Soldekai does take comfort in the fact that after marking one of her own, Gabriel becomes calmer, more sane, as if a great weight had been lifted from her. Not many on either side know of the Couriers. Belial would love to get his hands on one, but so far he has been thwarted. Couriers are generally cautious beings (for Ofanim, anyway) -- they carry something of great importance to their Mistress, even if they have no idea what it is. djd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:54:54 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: IN> Fallen Superiors and Such There is discussion on the list currently of who was and was not a Superior before, during and after the Fall. As such, I've documented the known and speculated status of all the canon Superiors. Since I don't have any of the Superior books or the GMG (though I soon will) please feel free to nail me on anything I get blatantly wrong. Michael: Was a Wordless angel before the Fall, but became the AA of War after he defeated Lucifer. There is some speculation though, that he was always the AA of War. Laurence: Was not at the Fall. Was he created by Uriel? Did he fledge? He served Purity as a Malakite, and became AA of the Sword after the Purity Crusade ended. Gabriel: Was always the AA of Fire. David: Was always the AA of Stone. Went from Cherub to Malakite at the Fall. Dominic: Was he the Angel of Judgment before the Fall, or was he always the AA of Judgment? He became the AA of Judgment after the Fall if he was the Angel of Judgment before. If he was though, who did he serve if anyone? Did he fledge? Was he created? (I am keeping in mind here that not everyone served a Superior before the Fall, since there wasn't as much pressure to do so then.) Uriel: Was always AA of Purity. Went from Seraph to First Malakite at the Fall. Novalis: Was she only the Angel of Flowers at the Fall, or was she always AA? If not, who did she serve? Was she fledged, or created? Eli: Was always AA of Creation. Blandine: Was always AA of Dreams. Jordi: Was always Aa of Animals. Marc: He was voted to AA of Trade after the Fall. Was he at the Fall though? Did he serve anyone? Was he fledged, or created? Christopher: Was an Angel of Stone until the Childrens Crusade, when he became the AA of Children. Was he at the Fall? Oannes: Was always AA of the Waters. There is doubt to his Choir, but everyone seems to envision him as a Kyriotate. Raphael: Was always AA of Knowledge. Or was she promoted? If so, who did she serve if anyone? Probably Yves if she was promoted. Yves: Was always AA of Destiny. Azrael: Here's a messy one. What is canon is that there is an AA of Death. what is not canon, but popular, is that he is a Grigori named Azrael. If he is a Grigori, he got his Word after the Fall. Who created him? Who did he serve? If before the Fall, what is his Choir? Who did he serve? Was he fledged or created? This can't be answered too well though. Janus: Was always the AA of the Wind. Jean: Was he an AA before the Fall? Or was he just the Angel of Lightning? Was he created, or did he fledge? Who did he serve? Khalid: Was an Elohite of Purity. He became AA of Faith after the Purity Crusade. Was he created? Did he fledge? Zadkiel: I really know very little about her. She was a Cherub of Flowers. Was she created? Did she fledge? Was she at the Fall? She later became the AA of Protection. Litheroy: Again, I don't know much since I don't have the book. Was he at the Fall? Did he serve anyone? Was he created or fledged? He became the AA of Revelations. Song: What is canon is that there is a AA of Song, and she is a Grigori. All we don't know is her name. Metatron: Another sketchy area. What is knwon is that she/he.it was the Voice of God, and killed by Lucifer. He had no Choir (although some sources say he was a Seraph). He had no known Word, although it could have been anything- such as God, or the Voice, or whatever. Lucifer: He was the AA of Light before the Fall, and it is unknown exactly -what- he is now, aside from a Balseraph. Does he have a Word? Maybe Dakrness, or Infernal Light? Again, like Metatron, probably not a big deal. Baal: Okay, what -was- he before the Fall? Was he just the Angel of Valor, or was he in fact the Archangel? Who made him? Or did he fledge? If he wasn't an AA, who did he serve? Lucifer? Belial: Was an Angel of Fire before the Fall, became the Prince of Fire after. Saminga: He was at the Fall, but who did he serve? Was he made or fledged? Haagenti: Was a hellborn gremlin, became the Prince of Gluttony later. Furfur: Was a hellborn Calabite (made? fledged?) of Fire, went Renegade and became a Prince. Magog: Okay. He was a Kyrio of Stone before the Fall, and Angel of Fortitude. Was he an AA though? After the Fall, he Fell and became Prince of Cruelty. He was sealed away by David and Khalid. Was he made by David? Or did he fledge? Vephar: He was an Angel of the Waters for Oannes. Did he Fall before or after the Rebellion? He became the Prince of the Oceans. Was he created, or did he fledge? Genubath: Not much is known about him. Did he Fallm or was he Hellborn? Did he fledge, or was he made? Did he serve anyone? He became the Prince of Rapine. Legion: He was Demon of Death before he became the Prince of Corruption. Was he made by Saminga? Did he fledge? Did he Fall? Andrealphus: Was he the Angel of Love before the Fall, or the Archangel? Was he made or did he fledge? If he was a mere angel, did he serve anyone? Beleth: Was always the AA of Fear. Fell to become the DP of Nightmares. Malphas: Another problem. He was an Angel of Stone... but did he become a Superior? What was his Word if he did? Or was he just a mere angel? Was he created, or did he fledge? Nybbas: Was an Impudite of Technology, and a fledged hellborn who became the Prince of the Media. Valefor: Nothing is known. He came out of nowhere with a book from Yves special collection, managed to convince Lucifer to make him a Prince, and went on to do -something- to Genubath that made him vanish. Some say he is Janus is disguise, a Fallen part of him, or just a demon that got Damn Lucky. Mammon: I know nothing about him actually. Was he at the Fall? Was he fledged ot created? Was he hellborn? Did he serve Marc? I'm not asking this for the list, I'm personally asking this because I don't know! :D Fleuity: Same problem as Mammon. Makatiel: He was the Prince of Disease, and a Habbalite. Did he Fall or was he Hellborn? Did he fledge, or was he created? Who did he serve? Meserach: He was the Prince of Sloth, and a Djinn. Did he Fall or was he Hellborn? Did he fledge, or was he created? Who did he serve? Kronos: He was "found" by Lucifer around 900 AD. Some say he is a Fallen Metatron. Other say he is a Fallen aspect of Yves, or even God. Some say he is Fate embodied, to counter Yves and all that is good. Either way, he has no known Band, and is a big meanie. Kobal: Was he the Angel or Archangel of Laughter at the Fall? Was he made, or did he fledge? Did he serve anyone if he was merely the Angel of Laughter? Asmodeus: Again, was he at the Fall? Did he serve Dominic? Was he created, or did he fledge? Did he Fall with Lucifer, or did he go afterwards? Vapula: He was a Hellborn Habbalite who got the Word of Technology. Did he fledge? Was he created? Did he serve anyone before his elevation? Alaemon: I know nothing about him, like with Mammon and Fleurity. Lilith: She left the Eden Experiment, and managed to get a Word by making the first Infernal Tether for Lucifer and the gang to go to earth from. Mariel: Was she the Angel or Archangel of Memory at the Fall? Was she made, or did she fledge? Did she serve anyone if she was merely the Angel of Memory? Beelzebub: Again, not much is known. Did he Fall, or was he Hellborn? Who did he serve? Was he fledged or created? Personally, my take is that he was a Cherub of Light and -very- close to Lucifer, and helped to make many angels Fall, and became the first Demon Prince as a result. Gebbeleth: I don't know much. Did he Fall? OR was he Hellborn? Did he fledge, or was he created? Did he serve anyone? --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:11:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> S.W.A.K. -- the Couriers Ohoh, major plotty goodness. Have some Essence. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"There are two kinds of selfishness: the kind that says, 'I must do what will make me happy,' and the kind that says, 'You must do what will make me happy.' The first is good, the second is bad." - -- Kenton E. Sinner

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 16:30:19 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: IN> Fallen Superiors - GMG Says Answers, where I can find 'em, from the GMG: >Laurence: Was not at the Fall. Was he created by Uriel? Yep, in 50 BC. >Dominic: Was he the Angel of Judgment before the Fall, or was he always the >AA of Judgment? He became the AA of Judgment after the Fall if he was the >Angel of Judgment before. Dominic was given his Word in 25,000 BC (at the same time of Marc) - before the Fall. Domionic became Archangel in 22, 000 BC, when the Seraphim Council was made after the Fall. > If he was though, who did he serve if anyone? Did >he fledge? Was he created? He was created in ??? BC (before the forming of the Earth) and was assigned, along with Asmodeus, to codify the word of God. Thus he probably didn't form an Archangel. >Novalis: Was she only the Angel of Flowers at the Fall, or was she always >AA? If not, who did she serve? Was she fledged, or created? Novalis' first mention is in 23,000 BC at which time she was the Angel of Flowers; it's unclear if she fledged or was created, but she's the one who made Eden. Novalis is elected to Archangel (shortly after Marc was - he was the first *elected* AA) in 22,000 BC. >Marc: He was voted to AA of Trade after the Fall. Was he at the Fall though? >Did he serve anyone? Was he fledged, or created? Marc was at the fall - he got his Word in 25,000 BC (which was a few thousand years before the Fall). He was apparently supposed to work with Dominic, too. >Christopher: Was an Angel of Stone until the Childrens Crusade, when he >became the AA of Children. Was he at the Fall? Christopher has no mention until 1212 AD (The Childrens' Crusade) and, interestingly, the GMG only describes him as the Angel of Children - he doesn't become an Archangel until 1978. >Raphael: Was always AA of Knowledge. Or was she promoted? If so, who did she >serve if anyone? Probably Yves if she was promoted. >Jean: Was he an AA before the Fall? Or was he just the Angel of Lightning? >Was he created, or did he fledge? Who did he serve? Raphael and Jean both served God directly at first - back in 100 million BC, they were both given the job of transcribing knowledge where they were made Archangels simultaneously - they probably got their Word at the same time (or have had it since they were made back before the Earth was formed). >Khalid: Was an Elohite of Purity. He became AA of Faith after the Purity >Crusade. Was he created? Did he fledge? No mention of Khalid until 859 BC, when he already had his Word. >Zadkiel: I really know very little about her. She was a Cherub of Flowers. >Was she created? Did she fledge? Was she at the Fall? She later became the >AA of Protection. No mention of her until 500 BC when she gained her Word and Archangeldom. >Litheroy: Again, I don't know much since I don't have the book. Was he at >the Fall? Did he serve anyone? Was he created or fledged? He became the AA >of Revelations. Like Zadkiel, Litheroy's first mention is when he gains his Word/AAship - 325 AD >Baal: Okay, what -was- he before the Fall? Was he just the Angel of Valor, >or was he in fact the Archangel? Who made him? Or did he fledge? If he >wasn't an AA, who did he serve? Lucifer? Baal was made WAY in the beginning; interestingly, it's one of his servitors, Ophis, who fouls the Eden Experiment. (Before the Fall). No mention of Baal gaining a word, but one has to guess that Sups 3 has it right and he was AA of Valor. After all, all the OTHERS he was made along with were all AAs and Wordbound (Except Michael...) from the beginning. >Magog: Okay. He was a Kyrio of Stone before the Fall, and Angel of >Fortitude. Was he an AA though? After the Fall, he Fell and became Prince of >Cruelty. He was sealed away by David and Khalid. Was he made by David? Or >did he fledge? Magog actually was an Angel until LONG after the Fall - until 859 BC. He Falls after being confronted by David. No mention of him before this time, though. >Genubath: Not much is known about him. Did he Fallm or was he Hellborn? Did >he fledge, or was he made? Did he serve anyone? He became the Prince of >Rapine. No mention of Genubath until he disappears, ironically enough. >Legion: He was Demon of Death before he became the Prince of Corruption. Was >he made by Saminga? Did he fledge? Did he Fall? One has to assume he was around during the lifetime of Jesus Christ as, if you believe the bible, Jesus had a little rundown with Legion in which he trapped the Shedite in some pigs. Other than that, there's no mention, so it's unclear how old he is. >Andrealphus: Was he the Angel of Love before the Fall, or the Archangel? Was >he made or did he fledge? If he was a mere angel, did he serve anyone? He's made Archangel surprisingly soon after he Fledges in 100 million BC. So he probably didn't serve anyone in between; the GMG does say he was created (not Fledged) - so by who? >Malphas: Another problem. He was an Angel of Stone... but did he become a >Superior? What was his Word if he did? Or was he just a mere angel? Was he >created, or did he fledge? He was created in the second rash of angel-making; he was made an Archangel in 100 Million BC, no Word given. >Mammon: I know nothing about him actually. Was he at the Fall? Was he >fledged ot created? Was he hellborn? Did he serve Marc? I'm not asking this >for the list, I'm personally asking this because I don't know! :D No mention of Mammon until 700 BC when he becomes Prince of Greed. >Fleuity: Same problem as Mammon. Fleurity was a servitor of Gluttony; he was given his word in 1864 BC. I don't have Sups 4, so I bet that could answer you better. >Makatiel: He was the Prince of Disease, and a Habbalite. Did he Fall or was >he Hellborn? Did he fledge, or was he created? Who did he serve? No mention of him until 1348 when he went Renegade and spread the Black Death. >Meserach: He was the Prince of Sloth, and a Djinn. Did he Fall or was he >Hellborn? Did he fledge, or was he created? Who did he serve? No mention of him until he got eaten. Chomp. Mmm. >Kobal: Was he the Angel or Archangel of Laughter at the Fall? Was he made, >or did he fledge? Did he serve anyone if he was merely the Angel of >Laughter? Just an Angel, made during the second rash of angel creation. He receives his Special Assignment in 100 million BC. >Asmodeus: Again, was he at the Fall? Did he serve Dominic? Was he created, >or did he fledge? Did he Fall with Lucifer, or did he go afterwards? Asmodeus was created along with Dominic and worked equally with him to codify the word of God - definately Fell with Lucifer. >Vapula: He was a Hellborn Habbalite who got the Word of Technology. Did he >fledge? Was he created? Did he serve anyone before his elevation? Vapula was Technology before he was an Archangel; he was minor enough that nothing's mentioned of him in the GMG - again, Sups 4 probably has that. >Alaemon: I know nothing about him, like with Mammon and Fleurity. He was once a Mercurian of Revelation; no mention of WHEN he Fell (I want Sups 4...), but he becomes the second Prince of Secrets in 1800 AD. >Mariel: Was she the Angel or Archangel of Memory at the Fall? Was she made, >or did she fledge? Did she serve anyone if she was merely the Angel of >Memory? Also no mention of her until she gets eaten. Chomp. Mmm. Which means that I don't know if she *was* Angel of Memory or even an Angel, ever. >Gebbeleth: I don't know much. Did he Fall? OR was he Hellborn? Did he >fledge, or was he created? Did he serve anyone? No mention of him until he disappears in 1600 BC, which nobody notices. Phew! Haru ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:37:25 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> Fallen Superiors and Such > -----Original Message----- > From: sirea@softhome.net > Subject: IN> Fallen Superiors and Such > > Song: What is canon is that there is a AA of Song, and she is a > Grigori. All > we don't know is her name. Hrm. I'd have hoped this would have been mentioned in the writeup for Israfel, Angel of Music. Where is this canon from? > Kronos: He was "found" by Lucifer around 900 AD. Some say he is a Fallen > Metatron. Other say he is a Fallen aspect of Yves, or even God. > Some say he > is Fate embodied, to counter Yves and all that is good. Either > way, he has > no known Band, and is a big meanie. You know, I would have thought so too, but according to his writeup in the main rulebook he's a Balseraph. Yves's the choirless one. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 16:48:28 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: RE: IN> Fallen Superiors and Such >> Kronos: He was "found" by Lucifer around 900 AD. Some say he is a Fallen >> Metatron. Other say he is a Fallen aspect of Yves, or even God. >> Some say he >> is Fate embodied, to counter Yves and all that is good. Either >> way, he has >> no known Band, and is a big meanie. > > You know, I would have thought so too, but according to his writeup in >the main rulebook he's a Balseraph. Yves's the choirless one. I'm pretty sure that Sups 3 (112/115 but slightly open to interpretation) says that Kronos *claims* to be a Balseraph but never appears in Cel-form to prove it. It's just that nobody assumes he'd lie about his Choir. Why would he? ^_~ Hugs, Haru ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:54:11 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Fallen Superiors - GMG Says Harukami wrote: >Novalis' first mention is in 23,000 BC at which time she was the Angel of >Flowers; it's unclear if she fledged or was created, but she's the one who >made Eden. Novalis is elected to Archangel (shortly after Marc was - he >was the first *elected* AA) in 22,000 BC. As I recall the GMG timeline, Novalis existed long before Eden, and was entrusted with the care of the first primitive cells to appear in Earth's oceans. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:03:55 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: RE: IN> Fallen Superiors and Such >I'm pretty sure that Sups 3 (112/115 but slightly open to interpretation) >says that Kronos *claims* to be a Balseraph but never appears in Cel-form >to prove it. It's just that nobody assumes he'd lie about his Choir. Why >would he? ^_~ > >Hugs, >Haru GURPS: In Nomine states explicitly that Kronos' designation as Balseraph is a lie. He is "the same type of being that Yves is, only Fallen." Who knows this, however(other than Yves himself), is up in the air. Willian ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2842 ********************************