in_nomine-digest Saturday, November 16 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2862 In this digest: Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? Re: IN> Professional Courtesy (part 10) Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? Re: IN> Falling et all Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? IN> Maybe....Saminga is right? RE: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? RE: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? IN> Mystique IN> Yet another thing that nobody below a certain age will get... Re: IN> Yet another thing that nobody below a certain age will get... RE: IN> Mystique IN> Seals Re: IN> Seals Re: IN> Falling et all IN> Bright Lilim Re: IN> Bright Lilim Re: IN> Bright Lilim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:23:43 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? - --- Randy Finder wrote: > Cherub of the Wind These aren't really that hard; the angel just has to be careful about Resonance use. No buildings, for example. People who are too settled are also poor choices. > Mercurian of War. Michael's Dissonance condition doesn't hurt these guys as much as you might think. They can't retreat from fights, but they're not obligated to start fights. As for getting roped into fighting Humans, I imagine that Mercurians of War are Heaven's foremost devotees of Judo and other forms of combat that emphasis restraint over damage. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:35:05 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Professional Courtesy (part 10) Yes! A little Tebah POV at least! Great portrayal of the Djinn mindset. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:19:47 -0800 (PST) From: Fade the Cat Subject: Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? >On the sjgames site there is a writeup for the Senegorim which were chosen >from those most rare in Heaven. >Seraph of Trade, >Cherub of the Wind, >Ofanite of Stone, >Elohim of Fire, >Malakite of Flowers, >Kyriotate of Judgement, >Mercurian of War. > >Are these tough to play/to be? I know that ever since I read the Liber Servitorum, I've always wanted to play a Malakite of Flowers. It's my hands-down favorite combination, excepting possibly Cherub of Wind or Seraph of Flowers. I mean, there are so many things to be done with a Malakite of Flowers, and the Superior in question nearly guarantees that you /can't/ play a stereotypical Malakite. Elohim of Fire, now...I don't think I could play any Elohite, and most especially not for Fire. Maybe, in a pinch, an Elohite of Wind. - --Fade _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:52:35 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Falling et all At 8:43 PM -0800 11/14/02, Joey's mail wrote: >There's a concept that's been bothering me for a while. Angels fall as a >result of getting too much dissonance, fracturing their connection with the >Divine Symphony and reshaping their perspectives. However, the "new" >perspective doesn't always match up with the results of getting dissonance. It wouldn't anyway -- dissonance from not following the Superior's dissonance conditions isn't Choir dissonance. Dissonance blurs the notes of the true Symphony for the angel, and causes problems. When too many notes are blurred, it almost doesn't matter which ones they are -- the angel loses the connection, forces a personal symphony into the gaps, and gets a new fashion statement... >However, Elohim and Habbalah both are distant from >their emotions, so how would acting on your emotions turn an Elohite into a >Habbalite? Many Habbalah _act_ detached and distant from their emotions, but they're not. They're viewing each and every whim of theirs as a God-given mandate, pretty much. Do they want to lash out and punish? Why, that's their JOB. That's what they're meant to be doing! Some do it with the outward glee of a deranged Calabite. Some do it with the manic calm of a mad scientist. Some do it icily, without expression. But they are all acting from their passions. >Similarly, how does a Mercurian killing humans lead them to >become Impudites, who love humans just as much? Can anyone clarify this? Impudites can _hit_ humans, beat them up, abuse them just short of death. Mercurians cannot _harm_ humans. A Mercurian who punches a human is dissonant. An Impudite who punches a human is probably feeling stress- relief. At 7:41 AM -0700 11/15/02, sirea@softhome.net wrote: >This reason alone is why I made my Vilodim -- murderous demons who are >Mercurians that Fell because they enjoyed hurting and killinh humans too >much. It makes more sense for them to become that than a smooth charmer when >they Fall (although becoming an Impudite of Death also solves the problem). Or an Impudite of Dark Humor, or one of the War. There are ways... - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:56:42 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? Hmm...let me comment on some of these: > Seraph of Trade, Marc encourages honest deals, which is why his Seraphs are especially valued; they can tell if a deal is honest or not. > Cherub of the Wind, The fact that the stability of a Cherub is slightly off with the motion of Janus, bus Janus's Cherub attunement helps change this, since they have one EXTRA stable relationship being moved from location to location. > Ofanite of Stone, I can see how, but there's several takes on David's Ofanim; they move around from community to community teaching humanity to be strong, they may build roads or railways (strengthening motion) etc. > Elohim of Fire, I play one of these. Although the ideal passion of Gabriel's servitors has to be kept at a distance from her Elohim, but this is why they get no pleasure out of their punishments. I think those that begin to will more often than not fall. > Malakite of Flowers, This one's true, definitly, since Malakim usually have no option but to kill any demon they meet. I'd imagine most of her Malakim are kept in reserve, ready for when there's no option but to fight. > Kyriotate of Judgement, Kyriotates of Judgement can serve well as spies, tracking possible Renegades in several bodies. Also, as members of a Triad, they can posses those who need to be punished and send them flying off a bridge or whatever, since they gain no dissonance for damaging evil hosts. > Mercurian of War. > Michael's Mercurians are his diplomats, which their resonance for relationships contributes to. When things go bad, send in the Malakim! Some ones that are hard... Mercurian of Animals--They tend to find them in situations which either way will get them dissonance, since they can't let humans die OR value human life over animal life. Although they probably tend to work with humans at wildlife reserves, etc. Impudite of Death--even though they're freed from dissonance, an Impudite will still always love humans, and leading them towards their death is doesn't seem like something that would interest an Impudite... Lilim of The Game--Asmodeus doesn't seem to appreciate the free spirit of the Lilim, although he probably uses them to keep tabs on Free Lilim, and take out those who are bright. Also, the ability to lay geas will prevent many demons from going renegade... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:03:36 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? > >Are these tough to play/to be? > > I know that ever since I read the Liber Servitorum, I've always wanted to play a Malakite of Flowers. It's my hands-down favorite combination, excepting possibly Cherub of Wind or Seraph of Flowers. I mean, there are so many things to be done with a Malakite of Flowers, and the Superior in question nearly guarantees that you /can't/ play a stereotypical Malakite. > > Elohim of Fire, now...I don't think I could play any Elohite, and most especially not for Fire. Maybe, in a pinch, an Elohite of Wind. > Elohim of Fire are very interesting; I see them as an extremely creepy, cold type of characer with a fascination for emotion. If you read my fic "The Flames Would Consume Me..." (under the message titled "A Short Fic") You'll have an idea of the perspective of Gabriel's Elohim. Plus, I'm making that fic a prologue for a longer fic, so you'll to see even more of Zendile's mindset. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:23:48 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Maybe....Saminga is right? > Saminga, on the other hand, is making it harder to make that choice. The > shorter human lifespans are, the less time they have to choose. Also, zombis > are still human, and definitely on the side of Hell. Zombies lack decision making capabilities. They are more of an ambulatory environmental hazard. "Don't worry, they're already dead. They can't feel a thing." -That "Wayne Newton" Looking Guy from the movie _Beetle Juice_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:20:54 -0700 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? > Elohim of Fire are very interesting; I see them as an extremely creepy, cold > type of characer with a fascination for emotion. If you read my fic "The > Flames Would Consume Me..." (under the message titled "A Short Fic") You'll > have an idea of the perspective of Gabriel's Elohim. Plus, I'm making that > fic a prologue for a longer fic, so you'll to see even more of Zendile's > mindset. I second this. In fact, I think an Elohite of Fire is the only kind of Fire-Servitor I would enjoy playing, because IM(biased)O they are the only ones who have any business "punishing the cruel." Hmmm. Heresy... Gabriel, Elohite Archangel of Fire. I like that idea. A lot. I might even write it, someday... - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 05:20:50 +0000 From: "Jarrod Carmichael" Subject: Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? >Ofanite of Stone, Read Barry in Liber servitorum. One of the best characetrs ever. >Elohim of Fire, We had one of these in our campaign, Razielph. He skirted dissonance all the time. One of his key attributes was rationally choosing to display emotions. he was a great faker. He acted passionate when it was nessasry, but only because he felt it was needed. Kinda odd >Malakite of Flowers, Again, look at book of servitors. Mines in a moving box at the moment, but Kyoko's(??) a very interesting character _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 05:24:17 +0000 From: "Jarrod Carmichael" Subject: RE: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? You can really get under a malkim of flowers skin by singing "Every rose has a thorn" Mallakai JC _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 01:29:19 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Mystique Sorcery is said to put one at odds with the Divine, for the simple reason that forcing one's will upon the Universe is the surest route to getting the Universe to push back. This is, unfortunately, one of the quickest routes to damnation, and it is exceedingly hard for sorcerors to resist the many temptations of their art. The Sorcery Attunement, by whatever means acquired, quickens the Sorceror's Will into a living, tangible instrument which cries out to be used (hence the popularity of Will-wars among Summoners, and even among sorcerors themselves). The very few white sorcerors, such as the Ignes (see Superiors 3), have occasionally sought a path to power which offers less in the way of temptation and a more divine outlook on the whole art. Darker Sorcerors, who are well aware of their looming Eternity, sometimes do the same thing. Boy, are they pissed when they find it. http://earl.of.sandwich.net/In_Nomine/Mystique.txt [The quick and dirty: Mystique is a Perception-based alternative to sorcery. The page(which isn't linked from my main In Nomine page at the moment, sorry) describes a bit about Mystique and its practitioners, Mystics. Much of it is taken up with a list of sample States, the Mystical equivalent of sorcerous rituals.] William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 22:51:22 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Yet another thing that nobody below a certain age will get... ...well, maybe people will. It's retro, you see. :) Moe "Did anybody else ever do anything like this before, BTW" Lane PS: As usual, I apologize in advance. Blame me, not my long-suffering girlfriend: she had to listen to this. I can't write sonnets to save my life, but I don't seem to have any trouble with churning out stuff like this... INTERVENTIONS! (With apologies to Schoolhouse Rock) (Clatter... clatter... clatter) When Reginald went to the con, uh-huh-huh, He hoped to have a little fu-un. He later would mention It was one cool convention Cause he kept rolling some Interventions... Crud! It's a triple six! Christ! Now I'm in a fix! Wait! I'm playing a demon tonight! Interventions! (Crud!) make excitement (Christ!) or emotion (Wait!). An Infernal one comes into play with the roll of a triple six, Or triple ones, in the case of a Divine. The game master was running scared, uh-huh-huh, Tonight, he was un-pre-pare-ed; His bowels were clenching At his players' dissension But then he rolled an Intervention... Yes! This gives me an idea! Great! They'll never know what hit them! Whoops! Time to run like Hell! Interventions! (Yes!) make excitement (Great!) or emotion (Whoops!). An Infernal one comes into play with the roll of a triple six, Or triple ones, in the case of a Divine. So if you're happy (Huzzah!) or sad (Oops!) Or frightened (Noooo!) or mad (SMITE!) Excited (Dude!) or glad (Glee!) An Intervention may just make your night! The campaign was down to the wire, uh-huh-huh, To victory the group did a-spi-re, There was lots of tension As they rolled with attention Only to scream at the Intervention... Yipe! We're all dead meat! Fool! You said your dice ski11z were 133t! Damn! ...So, Lucifer, how are things? Interventions! (Yipe!) make excitement (Fool!) or emotion (Damn!). An Infernal one comes into play with the roll of a triple six, Or triple ones, in the case of a Divine. So if you're happy (Huzzah!) or sad (Oops!) Or frightened (Noooo!) or mad (SMITE!) Excited (Dude!) or glad (Glee!) An Intervention may just make your night! Interventions! make excitement or emotion, Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, YEA! Player: DARN! I need new dice! ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 09/18/02 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 04:04:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Yet another thing that nobody below a certain age will get... Count me as one of the old codgers, then... I laughed my ass off and am printing this out! (Considering that I have no printer and thus must drive across town to a relative's house, that's high praise...) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "Ninety-nine percent of life is what you make of it, so if your life sucks, you suck." -- Mike Muir ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 05:48:06 -0700 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Mystique > [The quick and dirty: Mystique is a Perception-based alternative to > sorcery. The page(which isn't linked from my main In Nomine page at the > moment, sorry) describes a bit about Mystique and its practitioners, > Mystics. Much of it is taken up with a list of sample States, the Mystical > equivalent of sorcerous rituals.] This is really cool, and will definately find a place in any In Nomine worlds I run/create from now on. Thanks for the article, and congradulations! All the heretical material, fanfics and new/warped Superiors are a lot of fun to read, but it's not as common to see real, quality material that is directly usable in a /normal/ chronicle and not way-off to left field. As stunning as much of the heresy stuff is, this is /useful/. Kudos. One minor quibble: even if we forget the femme fatale supervillian, "Mystique" has all the wrong connotations for this Art. I'd call it "Mysticism," to parallel with the name of it's practicioners. - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:10:11 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Seals Is there a Demon of Seal Hunters? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:21:26 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Seals BC Petery wrote: > Is there a Demon of Seal Hunters? Not since Jordi put a Malakite in a baby harp seal vessel, no. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:16:51 +0000 From: Nigel Cole Subject: Re: IN> Falling et all On Friday 15 November 2002 14:41, sirea@softhome.net wrote: > This reason alone is why I made my Vilodim -- murderous demons who > are Mercurians that Fell because they enjoyed hurting and killinh > humans too much. It makes more sense for them to become that than a > smooth charmer when they Fall (although becoming an Impudite of Death > also solves the problem). I like playing Impudites, but I don't like them from a game design point of view: their style (i.e. smooth charmers) overlaps strongly with both Balseraphs and Lilim, while it grates on me a bit that a murderous Mercurian can rack up loads of dissonance, fall, and then continue to rack up loads of dissonance as an Impudite. My idea for fallen Mercurians would be Torturers, demons who gain dissonance if they go 24 hours without hurting a human. At the moment I'm undecided whether mental/social torture would count in general, or only for certain Princes (e.g. Kobal - and a Torturer of Dark Humour could keep the existing Impudite of Dark Humour attunement ). - -- Nigel Cole zebekia@zebekia.co.uk Dreamlyrics: Zebekia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:50:59 +0000 From: Nigel Cole Subject: IN> Bright Lilim [I can hear the screaming already... :-)] In canon, a Bright keeps her Lilim resonance. This can create problems if the GM allows Bright PCs, since their resonance is more powerful than any angelic resonance bar a Kyrio's, and Kyrios have strict dissonance rules to stop a Kyrio PC getting out of hand. It seems to me that the simplest way of reducing the power of Bright PCs while keeping them fun to play is simply to reduce their resonance. Most angelic resonances are Perception-based, so my idea is that a Bright loses the ability to geas. They can still detect Needs, and this could even be enhanced (a high CD might mean that, as well as what the target believes they need, the Symphony tells the Bright what the target *really* needs at that moment). This is still a very useful ability, but the Bright must now rely on ordinary persuasion to make deals; it also better fits the name "Gifters". Thoughts? - -- Nigel Cole zebekia@zebekia.co.uk Dreamlyrics: Zebekia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:30:34 -0000 From: "Farseer" Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim I like this and I am an avid Bright player. It might make GMs a little more willing to allow them which is good. However I have often found that the Lilim ability is quite weak in comparison to say the Malakim one. (Though that night just be due to the sort of adventures we were going through. Emma waiting to play Serena Bright of Yves again. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel Cole" To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 2:50 PM Subject: IN> Bright Lilim > [I can hear the screaming already... :-)] > > In canon, a Bright keeps her Lilim resonance. This can create problems > if the GM allows Bright PCs, since their resonance is more powerful > than any angelic resonance bar a Kyrio's, and Kyrios have strict > dissonance rules to stop a Kyrio PC getting out of hand. > > It seems to me that the simplest way of reducing the power of Bright PCs > while keeping them fun to play is simply to reduce their resonance. > Most angelic resonances are Perception-based, so my idea is that a > Bright loses the ability to geas. > > They can still detect Needs, and this could even be enhanced (a high CD > might mean that, as well as what the target believes they need, the > Symphony tells the Bright what the target *really* needs at that > moment). This is still a very useful ability, but the Bright must now > rely on ordinary persuasion to make deals; it also better fits the name > "Gifters". > > Thoughts? > > -- > Nigel Cole > zebekia@zebekia.co.uk > Dreamlyrics: Zebekia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:30:11 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim >In canon, a Bright keeps her Lilim resonance. This can create problems >if the GM allows Bright PCs, since their resonance is more powerful >than any angelic resonance bar a Kyrio's, and Kyrios have strict >dissonance rules to stop a Kyrio PC getting out of hand. Not really, in my opinion. I've played a few different Choirs (though more Brights than any other), and the Lilim resonance isn't *that* much stronger than any other. Sure, they can lay Geases...but I don't think I've *ever* used a Geas in a game. (Except once, but I didn't call in the Geas, I gave the person the hook in exchange for what I wanted.) Plus there's the fact that Geases *can* be resisted and all. If you're one of those people who hates Brights and normal Lilim, though, why not just adapt the mechanics a bit? Say that the Will roll to resist isn't penalized by Geas-level; level only affects the duration and what you can try to get someone to do. Alternately, if the person successfully resists, the Lilim could either lose her hook entirely (and have a much harder time getting rid of dissonance) or get it back, but at a lower level (though never below /1.) Or you could give them an *actual* dissonance condition; maybe something along the lines of Lilith's, given that every Lilim comes from her, or that they take double-dissonance from any Word conditions *except* Freedom because those are bonds they agreed to accept (or maybe it's just that all Superiors ask them to Geas themselves to serve...) I do like your suggestion about the Symphony telling Brights what the target *really* Needs at a given time. In one of my many unfinished writeups, I came up with two Archangelic Attunements that do that - essentially, Brights with either or both can detect normal 'want-Needs' and 'True Needs'. But they can't call in a Geas they get from a True Need at anything higher than half the Need's original level (rounded down, but never below /1 - so a Geas/3 would have to be called in as three seperate Geas/1s), because they aren't supposed to take advantage of Needs like *that*. Plus there's the fact that True Needs are normally lv/5-6... ~S.D. Ryukage ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Looking back, I realize that I sold my soul for a pack of cigarettes. "Of course, I can comfort myself in that she also gave me a lighter. "Somehow I feel I got the better end of the bargain." Youji Kudou, 'Bad Habits' ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2862 ********************************