in_nomine-digest Monday, November 18 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2864 In this digest: Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2863 Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat Re: IN> Bright Lilim Re: IN> Times when you were posessed by a Shedite IRL IN> Bright Lilim IN> Professional Courtesy (Episode 11) IN> General silliness Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat IN> Re: Bright Lilim Re: IN> Professional Courtesy (Episode 11) Re: IN> Request for Ideas, Comments, Etc on an INverse idea Re: IN> Bright Lilim Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2863 Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat Re: IN> Bright Lilim Re: IN> Professional Courtesy (Episode 11) Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2863 IN> Mortals Re: IN> Mortals Re: IN> Mortals Re: IN> Request for Ideas, Comments, Etc on an INverse idea Re: IN> Mortals Re: IN> Professional Courtesy (Episode 11) Re: IN> Request for Ideas, Comments, Etc on an INverse idea Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat Re: IN> Mortals IN> Releiver Nicknames Re: IN> Releiver Nicknames RE: IN> Releiver Nicknames Re: IN> Professional Courtesy (part 10) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:53:10 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Joey's mail wrote: > > Malakite of Flowers, > > This one's true, definitly, since Malakim usually have no option but to kill > any demon they meet. I'd imagine most of her Malakim are kept in reserve, > ready for when there's no option but to fight. > Not necessarily. The malakim all have an oath saying that 'You cannot suffer an evil to live _if_it_is_your_choice_'. When Novalis holds your warrior Heart, then the suffering isn't your choice. See, her Dissonance condition forbid you to go out and be violent unless you have no other option. Even with demons. (Which leads me to think that her malakim are either rather heavy on the Ethereal forces, or are never let out without a brainy parther in tow...;) - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:30:01 EST From: Serai1@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2863 How do people define "abusive uses of resonance?" Also, how do individual GM's deal with the fact that many servitors of the sword have participated in some pretty objectionable things? ie: The genocide of the Cathars in southern france, the Crusades, the Purity Crusade*, gender-based or ethnicity based oppression. Do you actually make your servitors of the sword explain themselves or just ignore it? Remember this means Laurence participated not only in killing dragons and aztecs, but also the women and children in non-monotheist cultures. About Mercurians: There reasonance is for social connections and diplomacy. Violence, in my opinion, is dissonant because its the loss of rationality. Diplomacy, however, is often not very nice. Personally I can see why poison, hiring assasins, blackmail, having people kidnapped, are not considered dissonant to many GM's--after all, they are tools of diplomacy. Of course, diplomat can also be another word for "spy". I am an atheist and play a malakite. The weapons of choice are caltrops and bolas. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:52 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Most difficult choir/sup combo? In article <5.1.0.14.2.20021115093642.02df52f0@mail.nd.edu>, jreimers@nd.edu (Joe Reimers) wrote: > ... Seraphim of Trade would excel as accountants and auditors; in fact, > I'd consider making the Angel of Accountants or Auditors a Seraph of > Trade. Glad someone agrees with me on this; there's a Seraph of Trade in my Cambridge, England campaign who specialises in auditing the new technology companies round here. Calling in the auditors also makes a fine way of distracting other organisations. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:52 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat We have Fighting as a strength-based skill that seeks to do damage; let's equate that loosely to the GURPS Karate or Brawling skills. But there's no way to describe unarmed combat skills based on restraint, or throws, or the like. Hmmm... Let's try this, since it's what I found myself running last weekend: Grappling (Agility or Perception), default -1 A successful Grappling attack (it can be Dodged normally) means you have hold of your opponent, and their Fighting, Small Weapon, or Ranged Weapon (for pistols) attacks are at a penalty equal to your check digit. Large Weapon or Ranged Weapon for weapons larger than pistols are at a penalty of twice your check digit. You can't attack someone you've grappled without letting go of them, but their Dodge against other contact attacks is reduced by the Grappling check digit. Participants in a Grappling combat don't get a Dodge against ranged weapons fired into the fight, but who gets hit is random - or at the GM's discretion. An aware target of a Grappling attack gets to attack first in the round, and the Grappling attack against him automatically fails if he scores damage with a Small Weapon or Large Weapon skill (grappling Malakim with swords from the front is unwise). Escaping from being Grappled requires winning a contest against the attacker's Grappling with your Strength or Grappling, or stunning the attacker. A grapple can be improved by making a new Grappling attack; the target's Dodge roll is at a penalty of the previous Grappling check digit. Yes, grappling does work in celestial combat - it's how you take prisoners. While I'm at it, let's define: Martial Art (name), Precision, no default A Martial Art is used to improve one of Fighting or Grappling - some rare martial arts schools improve both, but this requires learning and paying for two separate skills - and have a prerequisite of Fighting/6 or Grappling/6. Many schools also require a Knowledge/Philosophy or Knowledge/Religion skill at an equal or better level to the martial art. A successful roll against an appropriate Martial Art, made at the same time as a Fighting or Grappling roll, adds its check digit to that of the Fighting/Grappling roll, or allows a feat such as a judo throw, breaking a solid object, or otherwise spectacular accomplishment. One feat is learned at each level of the Martial Art skill; Characters and GMs will find many ideas in _GURPS Martial Arts_. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:46:26 +0000 From: "Jarrod Carmichael" Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim > > *AHEM* That's skirting Dissonance there, podner. > > Christian types don't all have Malakite and/or flaming > > sword fixations. > >Well, I thought it was funny *because* I a) had a Christian upbringing and >b) like Malakim (flaming swords optional). > > >Janet Anderson My players come from 2 groups. Roleplayers who will give any game a go, and just happen to really like In Nomine. And those people who dont normally roleplay but really like the In Nomine concept. Both my female players are the 2nd group. Each was introduced to roleplying by (ex)boyfriends and didn't enjoy it. Up until they heard of In Nomine. Just triggered off an interest that didn't exist in Vampire, or call of cthulhu etc. And Trish did say, upon choosing her first character "Malakim, they are the ones that smite evil at evil turn right, cool, do i get a flmaing sword, yes, Goodie". She herself said that it was how she had always pictured angels. And she used to go to church every week, and church groups 3 times a week. Go figure. Mallakai JC _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:46:44 +0000 From: "Jarrod Carmichael" Subject: Re: IN> Times when you were posessed by a Shedite IRL Later I came >to the conclusion that I must have been posessed by a Shedite of Haagenti. >I >then wandered back through my life and wondered when else I could have been >posessed.... - - The time someone convinced me to join a black metal band. I must have been possessed by a shedim of hardcore. I mean honestly, black metal songs with Jazz bass interludes sound kinda odd. - - Also the time I went to the US for 4 months to look after kids from inner city New York at a summer camp. Kobal. I hate kids, I have no Idea why I signed up to spend 3 months in a swamp, sorrounded by next generations mobsters. - - Im sure a shedim of saminga possesses me every Sunday morning. Cause after the usual saturday drinking session I cant move my own corpse anywhere. - - On the 3rd turn of any Warhammer 40k game i usually get possessed by a shedim of the game whos a fan of 40k. I can turn any seeming massacre into a victory at home. Against all commers I have a record at home of 17-0-1. And im always getting whupped on turns 1 & 2. PS. No One plays me anymore, somthing about me having a degree in defence and strategy and stuff. Mallakai JC _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:16:17 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Bright Lilim > In canon, a Bright keeps her Lilim resonance. This can create problems > if the GM allows Bright PCs, since their resonance is more powerful > than any angelic resonance bar a Kyrio's, and Kyrios have strict > dissonance rules to stop a Kyrio PC getting out of hand. Brights pick up dissonance whenever their target makes their Will roll vs the Geas. This wasn't a problem when they were demons - most demons pick up dissonance from resonance backlash occasionally - but is much scarier as angels. Especially as their sisters in The Game and Fate are going to take note of who the Bright is doing favours for, and Geas them to be Servants (LS 118): a Servant adds their level to Will rolls to resist Geases from the Bright, as they know that their master will disapprove (LS 120). If you think that the power needs clipping, consider the optional rules for angels using demonic resonances (GMG p126). If you are using that optional rule, you have a Bright who still has access to a nearly identical resonance; how often is she going to slip up and use her demonic resonance out of habit? Never if detecting Needs via recordings, obviously, and never in heaven; but having a 666 elsewhere indicate that she's used her demonic resonance doesn't seem unreasonable. For that matter, Needs, Geashooks & Geases acquired while a demon should still be available to the Bright - but only if she's prepared to use her old demonic resonance to use them. Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:28:59 -0500 From: Archangel Beth Subject: IN> Professional Courtesy (Episode 11) With an inward sigh for crazy halos (probably, though ethereal was possible too) who wouldn't leave him alone to do his job -- and do them all a favor, come to think of it -- Tebah started creeping backward through the grass, carrying the lightweight kid along with him. Finally he and his cargo were back far enough that he could mutter, "Okay, kid. Pony ride's over. Get off my back." More words than he'd have liked to use, but he knew the common foibles of his Band, and how to get around them. The girl unfolded like a little grasshopper, landing on all four like a gangly frog. Then she swayed back and forth, bouncily. Her eyes were still crinkled in amusement. The favorite game of all, when meeting another suspicious person, was "Guess the Band" or "Guess the Choir," with "guess the pantheon" in a third -- but unwise to forget it -- place. Tebah eliminated Malakite (unless she was one with a pathetic resonance), Calabite (not quite scruffy enough), Shedite ('cause he could _see_ them), and Cherub (too skinny). His short list included Habbalite, since not all were sexpots, Ofanite for the jitters, or Lilim for the blessed attitude. In order to confuse her -- since she was undoubtedly playing the same game -- he heaved a sigh and shifted to sitting, propped on one arm. Then, because a lazy Djinn wouldn't want to take the initiative, he asked, "So who're you, kid?" "Ed!" she chirped happily, though quietly enough. "It means witness!" Tebah spared a moment to hope it wasn't some annoying Servitor of Revelation. True Destiny, that'd be bad enough. Didn't need one of the blabbermouths around. "I'm Ted," he volunteered (after all, demons weren't trusting or cheerful, right?), discarding his other common alias of Jim as a little too obvious. "What are you doing here?" "Watching!" Those eyes went to crescent moons again. "Your parents know you're out late?" he tried. She giggled. "Yeah!" That ruled out all but the quirkiest Revelation, at least, since few of them'd be able to claim to have "parents." Thank somebody. He reached out and put his hand on her head, waggling her back and forth by it and pondering whether it'd be worth trying to squish her skull. Probably not, if she were Ofanite. "Why are you out this late and watching, Ed?" he said, trying to emulate his partner's casual menace with more emphasis on the casual. She didn't seem fazed by the touch, which pointed at angel (or maybe Impudite or Lilim...). Those happy-moon eyes went sharp and focused, though. With a smile, she asked, "What're you doing out here, Ted?" He grinned back, removing his hand. "Watching." Then he took a chance, since no sensible Djinn would. "Planning a recruitment speech." She snorted, all childish indignation and amusement. "No fair! That's what I wanna do!" "I was here first," he pointed out. "Was not! I was flying by!" Blessed Songs of Motion... No sane Djinn would bother arguing with an angel like this. "Well, w- _I_ saw him first." Her pointy-chinned little face screwed up into an expression that couldn't decide if it was a pout or a scowl. "Hey, War had its chance already!" "Don't blame me if you didn't get moving fast enough," he shrugged. Behind the shrug, and the facade of smug, he tried to remember what he needed to carry out his own bluff. War, sure, sounded good as any other; he knew a little more 'bout Judgment, but that'd be less plausible. Choir? No good trying to be Kyrio, Seraph or anything else that sensed things, so that left Ofanite and Cherub -- and blessed if he was gonna try to imitate a hyperactive ring of fire. *"Cherubim..." He'd shifted from side to side in the elevator, tucking his wings in. Angel-thoughts, bad news. His partner stared at the doors, replied, "They're very single minded about their fixations -- they don't... love... as broadly as Mercurians, but they're much more... obsessed." As they reached the first floor, she added, "You'd hate it."* Probably. But he'd take a shot at pretending. Getting caught out would only botch the mission, and endanger his partner. And him, of course. But Betharan was the one sitting next to a blood-crazy Balseraph with delusions of Virtue. He, on the other hand, was being glared at, with a lower lip that apparently _wanted_ to be called "pert" stuck out at him. "It's still not fair," she hissed. "It's my first project!" _That_ had nuance enough to his Game-trained ears. "Project, eh? What's your _assignment,_ kid?" She drew little circles in the dirt with one finger, and muttered something. Then, a bit louder, she said, "But he _said_ that he'd join them, and they'd see they were wrong about him." "Huh," he muttered. Then, because that was far too Djinny, "If it's not your assignment, you should clear out." She leaned forward, slapping her hand into the ground. "Look, you, just 'cause your boss doesn't like mine is no reason to try to run me off. If he's suited to your work, no skin off my nose. I just want him to have the real feathers. And two's better'n one." He made a big show of thinking about this and finally sighed. She was obviously intent enough on this to shirk her real responsibilities, so trying to shoo her off was just likely to get her hanging around out of his sight and interfering at just the wrong time. Better to keep her where he could keep an eye on her. "Fine, fine. But you keep your little newbie nose out of the action unless you clear it with me first, got it?" He hoped that was the sort of assertive thing an aggressive War-Cherub would say. "Okay, okay," she sulked. Apparently it was. Heartened, he pressed on. "Now, you tell me what you've seen, spying on him..." - --Beth (archangel@sjgames.com, arcangel@io.com) Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon... -Terry Pratchett {on Usenet group alt.fan.pratchett} ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:30:08 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> General silliness > - --- Jarrod Carmichael wrote: >> The other female is from a christian upbringing so likes >> Malakim of war with >> flaming swords. What can you do? > From: Michael Walton wrote: > *AHEM* That's skirting Dissonance there, podner. > Christian types don't all have Malakite and/or flaming > sword fixations. Try it - it's fun; and your first Malakite is free. You know you want to. And start singing the 144th psalm: "Praise by to the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle." :-) Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:59:13 -0500 From: Michael Nutt Subject: Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat >You can't attack someone you've grappled without letting go of >them... ... unless you've got the appropriate Numinous Corpus activated. GMs are encouraged to be creative with this -- a Grappled target might be unable to dodge Acid, Tail, or blows from extra Arms, for example. - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:19:51 +0200 From: Mervi.Hamalainen@uta.fi Subject: IN> Re: Bright Lilim > It can force people to do things against their will. Geashooks can be resisted with a Will roll. The victim gets a bonus to his will if the Lilim asks anything which is contrary to his morals. Or outside the level of the Geas. The Kyrio resonance > is the only other angelic resonance that can directly force a victim > into unwilling actions, and it's hedged with dissonance conditions to > (hopefully!) make it hard to abuse. Haha! (Desperate GM laughing so that she wouldn't cry.) Seriously, I don't allow PC Kyriotates anymore. snip All of the other choirs just need to see the target, a Lilim needs an eye-contact. Deny that and the resonance is useless. Also, the victim sees the Lilim every time she resonates and will be able to remember her. Therefore there is a bigger chance that the NPC (or PC) demons can identify a Bright Lilim. Packs of Asmodeans, Kronos with one of the Bright's Geas. Ah, the joys of playing a Bright. I play a Bright of Flowers. She uses her Geashooks to track people with Cel Affinity. from Sirea: > -Bright Lilim can't lay Geasa > -Bright Lilim can see True Needs and not Want Needs > -Bright Lilim can see Selfless Needs instead of Selfish Needs > -Bright Lilim get dissonant for using Geasa selfishly Or against Heaven's needs. Or BL have to always negotiate the Geas with her victim. (No Geashooks) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:18:23 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Professional Courtesy (Episode 11) Aaaaaw! :) That was just Cute! I think I like Tebah. And he now he reminds me even more of....mr. "Oh man, why can't they just leave me alone? I was quite happy just moseying around in my normal ploddy way. I /like/ plodding durnit, so why do I always end up having to go and /do/ stuff? *sigh*"-Hercules. (In the TV-series.) - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:29:25 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Request for Ideas, Comments, Etc on an INverse idea I posted a Lovecraft-inspired DP named Azathoth a while back; let me dig that up and send it to you. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:33:31 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > Well, I thought it was funny *because* I a) had a > Christian upbringing and b) like Malakim (flaming swords > optional). Well, I did say not all... =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:35:50 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2863 - --- Serai1@aol.com wrote: > > Remember this means Laurence participated not only in > killing dragons and > aztecs, but also the women and children in non-monotheist > cultures. Not so. The Catholic Church participated in these things. That doesn't mean that Laurence condoned it. He supports the Church, but that's no reason to assume that he likes evertything it does. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:39:15 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat - --- John Dallman wrote: > > Grappling (Agility or Perception), default -1 Yes! Somebody gets it! I once went round and round with a GM about different fighting styles and why Strength wasn't an appropriate Attribute for controlling all of them (though in this case my character was a Capoeirista and I was pushing for Agility). I disagree with this only on the choice of Attributes -- I don't think Perception works, but Precision might (some joint locks depend on the attacker's manual dexterity; as a judoka, I've used/been in enough of them to know). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:42:14 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim - --- james walker wrote: > For that matter, Needs, Geashooks & Geases acquired while > a demon should > still be available to the Bright - but only if she's > prepared to use her old demonic resonance to use them. [insert evil chortle] Oh, I'm gonna have so much fun with Brights when I get my campaign going again... =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:48:49 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Professional Courtesy (Episode 11) I have to say, I'm liking Tebah better than Betharan. That's probably bad for someone with Cherubic tendencies. 0:> =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:23:16 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2863 At 05:30 PM 11/17/2002 -0500, Serai1@aol.com wrote: >How do people define "abusive uses of resonance?" IMO, a resonance is being abused when: a) the player is deliberately trying to make the GM's life difficult; or, b) the player is going out of his way to defuse a plot point by use of his resonance. (A good example of both at once is the Malakite at a dinner party with a demon - but the Malakite doesn't know *which* guest is the demon. "I resonate everyone in the room, one at a time.") >Also, how do individual >GM's deal with the fact that many servitors of the sword have participated in >some pretty objectionable things? ie: The genocide of the Cathars in >southern france, the Crusades, the Purity Crusade*, gender-based or ethnicity >based oppression. Do you actually make your servitors of the sword explain >themselves or just ignore it? I don't think it's fair to presume that. Like Michael said, Laurence espouses Catholicism + medieval Catholicism espoused not-so-nice practices != Laurence espoused not-so-nice practices. Even if he had, there are Servitors of the Sword who would not have participated; even if *every Servitor of the Sword alive at the time* participated in these acts, there are Servitors of the Sword who don't remember a time when Mother Teresa was still alive. If you make every Servitor of the Sword answerable for every action the Sword has ever taken, then you're presuming a *lot* of guilt by association... (...and don't forget that Dominic supports Catholicism as well.) >Remember this means Laurence participated not only in killing dragons and >aztecs, but also the women and children in non-monotheist cultures. Why? >Personally I can see why poison, hiring assasins, blackmail, having people >kidnapped, are not considered dissonant to many GM's... I would inflict dissonance for the first two. It's the same, in my eyes, as the argument that "I wasn't violent; it was the bullet that hurt him!". A Mercurian, at least in my campaigns, cannot instigate physical harm against a human, whether directly or indirectly. (Note what that *doesn't* include; as so many have said before me, the wise Mercurian knows when to turn his back and let the Malakite step in. The Mercurian dissonance conditions can be taken as the first half of the First Law of Robotics. The second half of the First Law, as well as the Second, Third, and putative Zeroth law, do not apply.) >I am an atheist and play a malakite. The weapons of choice are caltrops and >bolas. Plenty of people play Malakim; I don't think the claim was ever made that one must be a Christian/Catholic/whatever to play one successfully. I myself have played one, and if I had to espouse a religion it would be Buddhist, although even that is somewhat distasteful to me for reasons into which I'm not going into; I've seen two Catholics, one Methodist-by-wedding-ceremony-if-nothing-else-sorry-Cam, and a non-denominational, non-practicing generic Christian play Malakim very successfully (okay, one of them was actually a Balseraph of Fate, but we can't hold that against him), and I'm sure I've seen at *least* one more in a tabletop game; I've also run across one or two online, although the faiths of their players I can't begin to delineate. (For the record, in order: a tennis racket and tennis balls, a big sword, a skateboard, I don't believe I've ever actually seen him fight although given the propensities of the rest of the group he probably uses heavy ordnance, a big sword, I can't even remember the *player* much less the character, and whatever comes to hand. Malakim are a varied bunch, although from empirical evidence, Eli employs more Virtues than any other Archangel *ever*, with Laurence coming in a distant second.) And now that I've delivered my share of non-sequituria for the day, it's time to slink back into my hole (office) and contemplate... well, something, anyway. - -EDG is both a floor wax and a dessert topping ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:40:12 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> Mortals I know I promised that I was going to go away, but something came up last night that seems to be living in the back of my head, and is annoying the neighbors, G'Kron style, with indignant, high-octane rants at all hours of the day and night. This is mainly a question for those readers who have been here long enough to remember when In Nomine was in its development stages: What's the rationale behind giving mortals 5 Forces? Here's my thinking: 6 Forces makes a lot more sense, for two main reasons: - - A mortal character's statistics are balanced, much like a celestial character's. This means, among other things, that their odds of succeeding at Will and Perception rolls *quadruple* (1-in-36 to 1-in-9, if I've done the math right). This also provides a pleasing balance to the human soul, rather than forcing a human to have decent perception and willpower only if they're either a) weak, b) stupid, or c) a Soldier. - - Soldiers begin at 7 Forces. It doesn't seem like much until you consider that unlike 6, 7 is one of the highly-vaunted Mystic Numbers. Now, Moe has brought up a valid point: under this system, a baseline Soldier is a match for a baseline newly-fledged demon. (Remember, O ye wise readers, that while starting infernal PCs have 9 Forces, they fledge at 7.) I don't personally think that this is a bad thing (Sirea, at least, will appreciate giving Soldiers even footing with new demons), but some of you might; I'll leave it at that. I'm interested in seeing how this works from a gameplay perspective. I'm still not sure it's enough to make humans as competent as many on the list want them to be, but I think it's a decent start, especially combined with the rules in the CPG and (IIRC, as I don't have my books handy) the GMG. Thoughts are welcome. Outright shoutings-down will be blatantly ignored. - -EDG won't turn pink in the can ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:15:40 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Mortals From: "EDG" > > Here's my thinking: 6 Forces makes a lot more sense *Rationale snipped, due to space considerations* It makes sense. Nicely said, sir. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:23:01 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Mortals - --- EDG wrote: > What's the > rationale behind giving mortals 5 Forces? > > Here's my thinking: 6 Forces makes a lot more sense, for > two main reasons: > > - A mortal character's statistics are balanced, much like > a celestial > character's. This means, among other things, that their > odds of succeeding > at Will and Perception rolls *quadruple* (1-in-36 to > 1-in-9, if I've done > the math right). This also provides a pleasing balance > to the human soul, > rather than forcing a human to have decent perception and > willpower only if > they're either a) weak, b) stupid, or c) a Soldier. Makes sense to me. Not sure I'll change things in IMC, but it makes sense. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:36:14 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Request for Ideas, Comments, Etc on an INverse idea Thanks for the ideas everyone :D I'm going to try a slightly different approach to Oannes now, but I think he's actually pretty good as is. I may post it in the next couple of days, for review and nitpicking. I want to stick with him as a Thing Man Was Not Meant To Know type Demon Prince... just with some modifications. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:37:26 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> Mortals Mortals have five forces because Hamlet said they have five forces. "What a piece of work is a man! how noble in reason! how infinite in faculty! in form and moving how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? man delights not me: no, nor woman neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so." I don't like how wimpy this leaves mortals, so I tend to give important ones up to three extra points in each area -- especially Will and Perception. This leaves them with the Shakespeare-mandated quintessence of dust while making them almost as strong as a six-force being. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:39:04 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Professional Courtesy (Episode 11) *giggles* I loved this one! I have a thing for Djinn ^_^ I liked the "crazy halo's" thing a lot :D As for that angel... well... maybe a Watcher? She mentioned Watching a whole darn lot... poor Tebah, he's so silly ^_^ --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:39:55 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Request for Ideas, Comments, Etc on an INverse idea Michael Walton writes: > I posted a Lovecraft-inspired DP named Azathoth a while > back; let me dig that up and send it to you. > Oh! I remember him. I'd appreciate that. And I promise no stealing ^_^ --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:41:23 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat Finally. I was wondering where the nuanced parts of martial arts where in IN. I found it a little bare-boned to just have Fighting as a catch all, and having it based on Strength. It should be Agility or Percision. Thanks. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:43:51 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Mortals Power to the mortals! :D Now that you've explained the part about how humans can resist resonances a LOT better with a simple one Force increase, I like the idea a whole lot. And 7 -is- a mystical number... and I do appreciate the thought of it putting them on even ground with fresh demon. A plot seed could be made where humans have hit the point where they are evolved, and people are starting to be born with 6 Forces naturally, with potential for 7 Forces. It makes more sense overall. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:47:17 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Releiver Nicknames I'm the one who, a few weeks ago, complained about some IN nomenclature, specifically the unsatisfying moniker "reliever." So, to offer some canon-compatible solution for that, here are nicknames that might circulate for the relievers of different Archangels: Blandine - "notions" Christopher - "teddies" David - "pebbles" Dominic - "scruples" Eli - "putti, cupids" Gabriel - "sparks" Janus - "puffs" Jean - "sparks" Jordi - "cubs, pups, chicks, kits," etc. Laurence - "squires" Litheroy - "junior reporters" Marc - "penny candy" Michael - "toy soldiers" Novalis - "buds, undergrowth" Yves - "lucky charms" Zadkiel - "pillows" Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:14:10 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Releiver Nicknames > So, to offer some > canon-compatible solution for that, here are nicknames that might > circulate for the relievers of different Archangels: I like these, with some exceptions: 1. "Teddies," "junior reporters," and "penny candy" are very recent concepts (especially if you're an angel!). A nickname that's generally in use in Heaven would probably be much older than any of these ideas. 2. If I were a Servitor of War, reliever or not, I'd find "toy soldier" insulting. I especially like "notions," "scruples," "sparks," and "squires." (Technically, it's as "contemporary" as the others I objected to, from an angelic point of view, but I think it fits really well and would probably have been adopted and retained by the Sword.) Janet Anderson - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:25:37 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Releiver Nicknames Janet Anderson wrote: >> 1. "Teddies," "junior reporters," and "penny candy" are very recent concepts (especially if you're an angel!). A nickname that's generally in use in Heaven would probably be much older than any of these ideas. << Please feel free to come up with some older ones. But nicknames can take root quickly. And Christopher became an Archangel at roughly the same time as the teddy bear was introduced, I think -- 19th century, wasn't it? >> If I were a Servitor of War, reliever or not, I'd find "toy soldier" insulting. << "Undergrowth" probably isn't too well received either. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:39:25 +0800 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Professional Courtesy (part 10) I loved this installment! The POV from Tebah was magnificient as it left me with not feeling sorry for him, but not admiring him either. However, he is a character that was enjoyable to read about. The details of the stealth were well balanced. Held my interest without bogging me with details. Not once did I think 'hurry up and get on with it' which some scenes like that could degenerate to. The end with the kid was a wonderful wrap up and looking forward to the next part as I see its already in the email arrival list. Well, off to part 11! Jeff =) - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mymail.operamail.com Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2864 ********************************