in_nomine-digest Wednesday, November 20 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2868 In this digest: Re: IN> Resonance Abuse Re: IN> Resonance Abuse Re: IN> Abusive Resonating (Re: Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2863) IN> The Demon of The Hand of Death IN> From the Demon of Customer Satisfaction Surveys Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat Re: IN> New Discord Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat Re: IN> The Demon of The Hand of Death Re: IN> From the Demon of Customer Satisfaction Surveys Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat IN> New Discord: YMMV IN> Malakim and lack of Trauma (Was: Some quick thoughts...) Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat Re: IN> New Discord: YMMV Re: IN> New Discord: YMMV IN> YMMV: Alternate Versions IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect RE: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect IN> Rude Cherubim Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Snuff Films (RE: Releiver Nicknames) Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect IN> The Third Fall. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:38:54 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> Resonance Abuse Yes, but if the most honorable thing the demon did was turn four renegades in (or something like that) and the most dishonorable was having to ask for help to chase down one renegade, then it sounds like he may be close to demonic... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Moger" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:19 AM Subject: Re: IN> Resonance Abuse > >> > >> (A good example of both at once is the Malakite at a dinner party with a > >> demon - but the Malakite doesn't know *which* guest is the demon. "I > >> resonate everyone in the room, one at a time.") > > > So be it- > > Am I wrong in believing that Malakim aren't demon detectors? I mean, yes, > they can pick up Balseraphs on a 6, but other than that Band on that check > digit, they only get readings of honor on pings. And demons can easily > appear honorable. > > > Josh > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:55:58 -0800 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Resonance Abuse Joey's mail wrote: > > Yes, but if the most honorable thing the demon did was turn four renegades > in (or something like that) and the most dishonorable was having to ask for > help to chase down one renegade, then it sounds like he may be close to > demonic... But would they show up as "Renegades"? Or as, say, "law-breakers"? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:56:34 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> Abusive Resonating (Re: Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2863) > > But you will notice that when a player gets a new song, attunement, or > anything for that matter they go out of there way to use it. Like kids with > a new toy. Other players will want players with flashy attunements to use it as well; Gabriel gave my Cherub smite, and every time I was in a combat situation, somebody would be like "Couldn't he use smite?" When I was trying to find two criminals in jail who had killed the last object of my attunement (ah, dissonant cherubs...) they were like "Can't he use smite on them from outside?" And when I did finally use smite, everyone was like "hah hah, feel Gabriel's fire!" since that was a phrase I used a lot... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:04:11 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> The Demon of The Hand of Death Leikbir, Demon of The Hand of Death Impudite of Death Living Artifact CORPOREAL FORCES: 1 Strength : 1 Agility: 3 ETHEREAL FORCES : 4 Intelligence:10 Precision: 6 CELESTIAL FORCES: 4 Will : 8 Perception: 8 WORD FORCES: 2-4. Vessel: None. Skills: Detect Lies/1, Dodge/1, Emote/4, Fast-talk/6, Fighting/1, Knowledge(Human Psychology)/6, Languages(none), Lying/1, Medicine/2, Meditation/1, Necromancy/2, Savoir-Faire/1. Songs: Projection(Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3, Celestial/6), Transfiguration/6,Healing (Corporeal/3) Attunements: Lilim of Death; Impudite of Death, Knight of Death, Demon of The Hand of Death. Servants(Lilim of Death): Leikbir's Servants are a mix of vampires(without the Vulnerability(Sunlight) and zombis (without any Needs) who he hires out as goons to other demons. Artifacts: A Reliquary/1 formed from a cloud of smoke; the Indestructible feature has been added to it, giving it the permanent form of a gigantic (8' across) hand. Leikbir has been Bound into the Artifact. Discord: Bound/6. Special Rites: Take a human bodily into Hell [2 Essence]. Also, Lilith has granted Liekbir her dissonance conditions and Rites. Special Abilities: While in the upper locus of an Infernal Tether, Leikbir may spend 7 essence to draw a human into Hell (The human must also be in the Locus, and Leikbir must enter the Corporeal Plane, enclosing the targeted human in the "hand". An unwilling target gets a Will roll to resist; those who have not met their Fate nor accepted Infernal Rites, Forces or Attunements may add their Total Forces to the Will roll). Bystanders see the hand reach out the ground, surround the hapless human and draw him into the ground. The human returns to the Corporeal Plane [Word Forces] days later, or earlier if Liekbir wishes it. - ----------------------------- A Mercurian of Novalis who violated the Pax Dei by thumping a Blessed Soul, Leikbir Fell like a stone: there's just no helping some angels. Despite being fated to demonhood, the only skills Leikbir had to offer Hell were those he'd acquired as a Shepherd: the fine art of encouraging Dead Souls to let go of the Disadvantages they have acquired in life. Not terribly useful in Hell. Leikbir spent several centuries at the bottom of the heap, freeing the Damned of Merciful for Baal and Saminga, until Lilith recommended him to Lucifer for The Word of the Hand of Death. (Demons still gossip over what Leikbir could have helped Lilith remove; perhaps Andre managed to make her truly Lustful? Theories abound..) Leikbir now serve Saminga in a unique role: he brings favoured undead into the Celestial realm and shows them how to abandon some of their Disadvantages. Whether freeing vampires of their Vulnerability(Sunlight), or reducing a zombi's Need, Leikbir is strengthening Death's minions very efficiently; of course, with countless undead in the world, only the most useful get helped. (PC Undead should have to spend character points to represent the favour required to be assigned to Leikbir's training). The Hand of Death is a minor Word, but slowly growing in power. Tales of seeing comrades fall to the Hand circulate among nervous Soldiers of God; the inability of the Seraphim to deny the tales ensures that they're believed. The Hand appears so infrequently to the Host that little is known by Heaven about Liekbir, making it harder to stop the rumours, and only snagging a Soldier every few centuries (Leikbir prefers to grab a zombified Soldier, as they cannot resist) means that it's not known that the human must be returned to the Corporeal Plane. His skill at encouraging this - despite never spending any time on the Corporeal Plane - is due to Beleth's patronage. The fear he initially caused attracted her attention, and she assigned a Servitor to teach Leikbir the fine art of improving your Word through careful scare-mongering - in return for treating a few score Dream Soldiers who had lost Ethereal combats, of course. The future looks good for Leikbir; Saminga finds him useful, more senior Demons of death do not consider him a threat - and if Saminga is ever destroyed, Beleth will gladly take him in. Even if hell loses Armageddon, Leikbir hopes to survive: what is Heaven going to do with the Damned? Leikbir is the expert at helping the Damned remove Disadvantages, and he hopes to be able to use that skill to buy his continued survival, assisting the angels of Destiny to convert the Damned. Of course, he's as likely to killed during the fighting, but he's one of the few demons who has something to offer Heaven. Cheers, James. Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:05:58 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> From the Demon of Customer Satisfaction Surveys It took a while to work out who the Demon of Customer Satisfaction Surveys would serve, and which Band they would be. Balseraph of Dark Humor? Shedite of Technology? Impudite of The Media? Then I realised that only a Djinn of The Game would really have what it takes to circulate these in Shal-Mari: ========================================================================== CLIENT SATISFACTION SURVEY! Please take the time to fill in this survey - it will help us to keep Shal-Mari safe from treason! And you do want traitors caught..don't you? Excellent. These forms are completely confidential, and cannot be traced back to you. Please feel free to be frank and honest. Q1. Which Bands do you feel most needs to be investigated in Shal-Mari? (Tick any six): [] Balseraph [] Djinn [] Calabim [] Lilim [] Habbalah [] Shedim [] Impudites Q2. What do you see as the greatest problem facing The Game in Shal-Mari? (Tick all that apply) [] Lack of funding [] Insufficient street presence [] Lack of local recruits, to provide local area knowledge [] Insufficient support by local WordBound [] Lack of public shopfronts [] Paucity of locations which can be used for anonymous tip-offs ------------------------------ [] Being Fascists, who should I GAME USE ONLY - DO NOT I all be shot. I MARK THIS BOX! I ------------------------------ Q3. How free do you feel to report fellow demons who you suspect of disloyalty to Hell? (Tick all that apply): [] Completely. It is a privilege to assist, and helps with The War effort. [] Lack of police protection worries me. (Please ask for our informant protection brochure!) [] Knowing that some demons are not immediately handed over to The Game by their Prince causes me some concern. [] I'm worried that I could get attacked by the traitor. (Please ask for our informant protection brochure!) [] I'm worried that I could appear disloyal to my Prince. (Please ask for our 'working with your Prince' and 'career opportunities with The Game' brochures!) Q4. How many of your colleagues do you think need to be investigated by The Game? ----------------------------------------- [] None. I GAME USE ONLY - DO NOT MARK THIS BOX! I ----------------------------------------- [] One obvious traitor. [] two to four potential conspirators. [] five or more dubious characters. [] The entire organisation is suffering from [] corruption [] incompetence [] disloyalty to our Prince [] disloyalty to Hell. (You will be asked for more details on these individuals after filling in this form). Q5. If Hell needs me to assist The Game, I would be most comfortable: [] Catering to the needs of our Agents; supplying food, stimulants, R&R etc. [] hunting/capturing/bullying/interrogating suspects. [] investigating the finances of suspects for wrongdoing. [] being bait for sting operations [] providing information from my current work. [] Where ever I was needed. Q6. If you had any concerns with The Game, who would you discuss the matter with? [] The Game's internal complaints department [] My direct superior [] The WordBound my superior reports to [] My Prince ---------------------------------------- [] Lucifer I GAME USE ONLY - DO NOT MARK THIS BOX I ---------------------------------------- Q7. Thank you for filling out this form. Did you find the form: [] Clear and easily understood [] Needs more work, to better help root out disloyalty [] A chance to help clean up Shal-Mari ---------------------------------------- [] A waste of time. I GAME USE ONLY - DO NOT MARK THIS BOX I ---------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 05:32:09 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat This is a superb article! Thanks for posting the link, Wade. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 05:35:37 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Discord - --- BC Petery wrote: > Discord: Background Noise I can see this showing up quite often among demons of the Media; it's the Soundtrack Attunement with no off switch. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 05:38:19 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat - --- BC Petery wrote: > > In tight grappling, the stronger opponent > > wins every time. > > In a fair fight. Good point -- and demons and Michaelites don't fight fair. > You'd be amazed what you can do when you aren't concerned > about the > concequences to your opponent or yourself. The ad for Frank Miller's comic _Ronin_ had this wonderful tag line, "If you intend to die, you can accomplish anything." When applied to combatants who know that corporeal death won't take them out of the larger war, that gets really scary. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 05:43:15 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of The Hand of Death - --- james walker wrote: > Leikbir now serve Saminga in a unique role: he brings > favoured undead into > the Celestial realm and shows them how to abandon some of > their Disadvantages. So, he can retroactively turn Vampires into Mummies and Zombis into Vampires? An ability that powerful would earn a Distinction from Saminga and make Leikbir one of Death's most favored Servitors. It also has the potential to upset game balance -- Zombis' Needs and Vampires' vulnerabilities are hooks that Hell uses to control them. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 05:46:02 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> From the Demon of Customer Satisfaction Surveys RIBLMHO! =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:05:51 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat >> > In tight grappling, the stronger opponent >> > wins every time. >> >> In a fair fight. > > Good point -- and demons and Michaelites don't fight >fair. > >> You'd be amazed what you can do when you aren't concerned >> about the >> concequences to your opponent or yourself. > > The ad for Frank Miller's comic _Ronin_ had this >wonderful tag line, "If you intend to die, you can >accomplish anything." When applied to combatants who know >that corporeal death won't take them out of the larger war, >that gets really scary. Oy. I'm suddenly wondering how many Malakim who have somehow been slashed across the stomach, even if it was done by themselves, have tried to strangle their opponents with their own intestines <++++++ I swear I remember seeing that in an Asian movie somewhere. You know, the lack of Trauma when fighting a Malakite must the be the scariest thing for a demon. Josh ^_^' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:16:06 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> New Discord: YMMV This is evil, evil, and furthermore, evil. It's thrown out as an intellectual exercise, and any GM who actually uses it had best expect pitchforks and torches at 2 AM. - -EDG Celestial Discord: YMMV Unlike most celestial Discord, YMMV doesn't interfere with Essence collection; it does, however, interfere with Essence spending. This Discord typically shows up in celestials who tend to make a large amount of disturbance on the corporeal plane. Every time the afflicted character spends Essence, the GM must roll one die; if the result is lower than or equal to the level of this Discord, the character's Essence simply isn't as useful. If the rolled number is lower than the level of the Discord, the celestial must spend that much Essence (in total) in order to achieve the same effect; if the number is equal to the level of the Discord, the celestial must spend either that much Essence or *twice* the normal amount of Essence, whichever is higher! If the character doesn't have the required amount of Essence, or doesn't wish to spend that much, he may abort the expenditure altogether; doing so costs half of the unmodified intended Essence expenditure (round up), however. Note that this should be rolled for each Essence expenditure, regardless of size, instead of each Essence spent! Example: Althea has YMMV/3. She decides to spend 1 Essence to boost the target number of a roll; the GM rolls 1d6, and the result is a 2. Althea must spend 2 Essence (total) if she wants to boost the target number by 1, or she can abort entirely at the cost of 1 Essence (1/2, rounded up). Example: Althea has YMMV/3. She decides to spend 2 Essence to boost the target number of a roll; the GM rolls 1d6, and the result is a 3. Althea must spend the higher of twice the usual Essence cost or her YMMV level; since doubling the normal cost is higher (4 vs. 3), she either needs to spend 4 Essence if she wants to boost the target number by 2, or abort entirely at the cost of 1 Essence. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:22:49 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: IN> Malakim and lack of Trauma (Was: Some quick thoughts...) On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Josh Moger wrote: > You know, the lack of Trauma when fighting a Malakite must the be the > scariest thing for a demon. > In the setting, yes I should blo...er..durn well think so! But in the campaigns, reality might be a bit different. A vessel does cost character points, and they (vessels) come relatively expensive. At least if you want more than an anonymous vessel/1, which can be pretty wimpy unless you've buffed your corp. forces and strength a lot. I play a malakite in a campaign, and my biggest fear is to get vessel-killed, because that's going to cost me at least 10 CP! Now, I want to be able to improve in skills, Songs, stats and other whatnots too, so having 10 CP stashed away constantly is a bit on the ehhh side. If a player manages to get a deal out of his/her GM about getting new vessels cheat/for free then the above isn't a (big) problem. But if the GM won't allow this (mine doesn't), then you should handle your vessel with care.* Oh, and the expence for getting a new body will be cheaper if you have managed to die unseen by others! Role-recycling is your friend!:) *)No, I don't have any specific beauty parlours, hairdressers, gyms and other whatnots to recommend, but if you ask Nybbie's or Andie's guys I'm sure you ca...Aaargh... *thud* - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:52:50 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Some quick thoughts on unarmed combat > Oy. I'm suddenly wondering how many Malakim who have somehow been slashed > across the stomach, even if it was done by themselves, have tried to > strangle their opponents with their own intestines <++++++ I swear I > remember seeing that in an Asian movie somewhere. That sounds like a Malakite of Creation to me. Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:24:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Discord: YMMV - --- EDG wrote: > This is evil, evil, and furthermore, evil. It's thrown > out as an > intellectual exercise, and any GM who actually uses it > had best expect pitchforks and torches at 2 AM. No kidding! I don't much care for the odor of roast GM, especially when I'm running the game. > If the character doesn't have the > required amount of Essence, or doesn't wish to spend that > much, he may > abort the expenditure altogether; doing so costs half of > the unmodified > intended Essence expenditure (round up), however. So what happens if the character doesn't have enough Essence to abort? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:52:25 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> New Discord: YMMV At 10:24 AM 11/20/2002 -0800, Michael Walton wrote: > No kidding! I don't much care for the odor of roast GM, >especially when I'm running the game. ;) > So what happens if the character doesn't have enough >Essence to abort? Can't happen, by design. The aborting cost is always half of what the player started out trying to spend - so if I wanted to spend 2 Essence (say, to boost my target number by 2), regardless of how the Discord affected my Essence expenditure, the abort cost would be 1 Essence. (If the character is channeling Essence from a reliquary into an external effect - not into one of the reliquary's built-in Songs, if it's also a relic - and the character chooses to abort, he pays as much of the cost as he can, with the unpaid balance coming from the reliquary. Again, it isn't possible for the abort cost to go unpaid due to lack of Essence.) Now, having written that, I can think of a single example where the GM might rule that the character could not pay the abort cost: if the character and an Impudite with identical statistics (and no strange modifiers) act at exactly the same time, and the Impudite drains the character of Essence *while* the character is attempting an effect with an Essence cost, I might rule that the Impudite has drained off enough Essence that the character could not pay an abort cost - in which case the effect couldn't have gone off in the first place (due to lack of Essence), and there is no abort cost to speak of. So never mind. :) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:44:50 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> YMMV: Alternate Versions Here are some alternate -- and actually playable -- versions of the new Discord. v2.0: Celestial Unlike most Celestial Discord, YMMV doesn't interfere with regaining Essence. It merely creates a delay. During the normal time when the Celestial would regain Essence, the GM rolls a die and adds the level of the Discord. That is the number of additional hours that the character must wait to get her daily Essence recharge. YMMV can be suppressed with a Will roll at a penalty equal to the level of the Discord. v3.0 This Discord can effect any of the three realms. When playing a Song in the same realm as the Discord, the character rolls additional Check Dice equal to the level of the Discord. The lowest result between the base die and the additional dice is the CD of that Song performance. YMMV can be suppressed with a Will roll at a penalty equal to the number of Discord levels that the character wants to suppress (YMMV/6 can be effectively reduced to YMMV/3 for one Song use with a Will roll at -3, for example). This gives characters with low Will scores the option of making a roll that they have a chance of succeeding on. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:56:31 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect I brought this up with Moe a few weeks (okay, months) ago, and I don't think we ever came to a satisfactory conclusion (other than "use it to boost a roll"). I'm interested to hear what the group thinks. Can a celestial (or, really, anyone who can control Essence expenditure) deliberately spend Essence without having any particular effect in mind - specifically to create the special sort of disturbance that Essence expenditure causes, so as (for example) to simulate the effects of having used a Song that did not require verbal or somatic components? I'm not looking for arguments of the "Well, why don't you spend the Essence on X instead?" variety; I'm looking for Can This Be Done? - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:58:13 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect > Can a celestial (or, really, anyone who can control Essence expenditure) > deliberately spend Essence without having any particular effect in mind - > specifically to create the special sort of disturbance that Essence > expenditure causes, so as (for example) to simulate the effects of having > used a Song that did not require verbal or somatic components? I think so, because in A Bright Dream, the Cherub and Servant drive around with the Cherub expending small amounts of Essence to attract demons. ("Here, demon, demon, demon ... ") In my game, a Mercurian of Trade expended a point of Essence in the parking lot of the local Tether of War as a way of announcing his arrival. Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:02:12 -0500 From: "Adams, David" Subject: RE: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect >From EDG: Can a celestial (or, really, anyone who can control Essence expenditure) deliberately spend Essence without having any particular effect in mind - specifically to create the special sort of disturbance that Essence expenditure causes, I do not see why not. The expenditure of essence makes the disturbance not what you are using it on. There is also disturbance that comes from what the essence was used for, but I always thought that this disturbance was on top of the disturbance of the esence spent. What you propose is basically releasing the essence to be reabsorbed by the symphony. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:13:03 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect At 02:58 AM 11/21/2002 +0800, Janet Anderson wrote: >I think so, because in A Bright Dream, the Cherub and Servant drive around >with the Cherub expending small amounts of Essence to attract demons. >("Here, demon, demon, demon ... ") In my game, a Mercurian of Trade >expended a point of Essence in the parking lot of the local Tether of War >as a way of announcing his arrival. Aha! I thought I'd seen it before, but I couldn't place it. :) - -C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:14:12 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Rude Cherubim Regarding the post (which I accidentally deleted) asking if taunting an opponent into striking the first blow counted as abuse by Servitors of Stone, as a GM and also the player of a Cherub of Stone, I disagree. My reasons are two: 1) A "coward's weapon" is one which prevents the user from suffering the results of his attack (a projectile weapon; this theory, I am told, is why archers, although effective, were generally held in low esteem by the main body of a medieval army). By that standard, a taunt does not count as a weapon at all because no one is physically damaged by it. ("Sticks and stones may break my bones ...") 2) In *Superiors 1* it says, in the section on Cherubim of Stone, that these Cherubim are sometimes *trained* in provoking attacks on themselves to divert them from other things less able to withstand attack, including but not limited to their attuned. As a corollary, I can see angels of Stone, before going to Earth for the first time, going through the kind of training that police do, where they have to stand in a row and be insulted by their trainers. This would be especially unpleasant since angels, unlike police trainers, have Elohim and Mercurians to help them know what insults to use, what works, and what doesn't work. Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:16:49 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect > I think so, because in A Bright Dream, the Cherub and Servant drive > around with the Cherub expending small amounts of Essence to attract > demons. ("Here, demon, demon, demon ... ") In my game, a Mercurian of > Trade expended a point of Essence in the parking lot of the local Tether > of War as a way of announcing his arrival. I permit it in my games. My group of angels that was protecting Noah's tribe used to do it periodically to see if anybody was listening. > Janet Anderson > Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving > a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. Huh. I've got a Malakite of Creation that is terrified of resonating on people when the party is in dangerous places, because she doesn't want to know if they are evil or not. She's afraid that knowing they are evil will obligate her to do something and probably get the whole party killed. The most obvious example was when the party sneaked into Hell and there were demons everywhere, but it's happened on earth, too. Good, bad? Any advice? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:39:20 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect > >Can a celestial (or, really, anyone who can control Essence >expenditure) deliberately spend Essence without having any >particular effect in mind - specifically to create the special sort >of disturbance that Essence expenditure causes, so as (for example) >to simulate the effects of having used a Song that did not require >verbal or somatic components? >-EDG Huh. I am inclined to say, sure, why not? But I am at a loss to come up with any compelling arguments to justify this mechanic (or, for that matter, to say why it cannot be done). It does seem to fall within the KINS mantra that SJ promote. I do think it should require a precision roll. I imagine that when those who are symphonically aware are learning to channel essence, this is pretty much the first thing that they are taught NOT to do... the whole idea is that you are supposed to be spending essence in a controlled manner, not just 'wasting' it by simply dumping some amount of it into the symphony at no purpose. Overcoming this training would require some kind off effort. -Daiv embrace defiance stand warm against the winter wind **** hibernation (if you do not know what to do to hibernation based on this, do not ask me... this is a PG rated list). - -- wireless network 802.11 transparent bamboo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 03:47:50 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect > Huh. I've got a Malakite of Creation that is terrified of resonating on > people when the party is in dangerous places, because she doesn't want to > know if they are evil or not. She's afraid that knowing they are evil will > obligate her to do something and probably get the whole party killed. There's a word for Malakim like this: "Responsible." Like the one in my campaign, quoted in my .sig (hi, Michael!). Refraining from using one's Resonance (no matter what it is) isn't dissonant. Now, a Malakim in Hell is a whole other problem. Whoever sent them there should have provided careful, detailed and extensive orders to prevent the Malakite either returning covered with dissonance or charging the first demons he sees and getting soul-killed. And then there's the danger of capture. Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:17:30 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect >Can a celestial (or, really, anyone who can control Essence expenditure) >deliberately spend Essence without having any particular effect in mind - >specifically to create the special sort of disturbance that Essence >expenditure causes, so as (for example) to simulate the effects of having >used a Song that did not require verbal or somatic components? I'm not >looking for arguments of the "Well, why don't you spend the Essence on X >instead?" variety; I'm looking for Can This Be Done? > >-EDG > I don't see why you can't just bleed essence into the Symphony and have it create a disturbance. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:24:24 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect On the same, or a parallel, note- I really enjoyed the little bit of Night Music where Tomas snaps a pencil while standing outside of Wrenchiel's door to create that little *twang* of disturbance to announce his presence. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:50:58 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect >Now, a Malakim in Hell is a whole other problem. Whoever sent them there should have provided careful, detailed and extensive orders to prevent the Malakite either returning covered with dissonance or charging the first demons he sees and getting soul-killed. And then there's the danger of capture. We had this situation a little while ago, in the game I play in...with a *Malakite of the Sword*. Fortunately, he's a mildly odd Malakite by nature, one of the other characters (mine, actually) is a Redeemed demon who knew to tell him 'don't attack unless I say you can' and who he'd take orders from (which lets him out through the 'if it is my choice' caveat), and we didn't run into any demons. ...We did get three damned souls who played Sphinx, two Hellhounds who nearly tore my character's hand off at the wrist (said Hellhound subsequently rolled a DI to dodge and got cut in half by the Malakite), and nearly got caught by the ghost of Mariel, but other than that, no demons. ^^ Still, though, the best way to handle a Malakite in a situation like that, IMO, is to make sure they're *not* party leader. If there's someone else in the party they're willing to take orders from, they can escape dissonance. They won't be too happy, but they'll survive...even if the GM really really wanted to roleplay a fistfight between the Swordie and the Prince of Secrets. ^^;; ~S.D. Ryukage ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The secret of being a child is never knowing that you will one day die. The secret of being an adult...is never forgetting that you once were immortal. Anthy Himemiya, 'Ten Years After' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:11:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Snuff Films (RE: Releiver Nicknames) At 4:13 PM -0400 11/19/02, Randy Finder wrote: >On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >> >> While Andre often has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy about killing >> humans, he is still an Impudite, and doesn't like humans to be wasted. >> In all but the darkest campaigns...[...] >While Andre is an Impudite, so is Kobal and Kobal doesn't seem to have any >problem with uses of Dark Humor that ultimately lead to death... Note Kobal's Band Attunement for Impudites -- if it's Funny, humans can die. He, presumably, is equally benefitted. > And would >he really want to leave any part of the human adult movie business >uncovered? This is why demons of Lust hate hate hate HATE it when their Prince gives them a kiddy vessel, or any other sort of vessel, and send them to one of THOSE studios. (Andre doesn't mind people _watching._) It's also why demons at THOSE studios like knowing Corporeal Entropy, so they can youthen captured angels, etherals, or Samingans... O:> - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:17:18 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect I've seen nothing saying that it can't be done. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:50:04 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: IN> The Third Fall. The First Fall took place when Lucifer rebelled against God. The Second Fall probably took place after the demons were released and corrupted the Grigori. Who do you think was the Third Fall -- the first angel to Fall after these two events? Ben "You're all the things I've got to remember." - -- A-ha ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2868 ********************************