in_nomine-digest Monday, November 25 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2872 In this digest: IN> Home for old Roles - The Ghosters Lilim and Needs (Was Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2870) Re: IN> Home for old Roles - Part I: Scipio's. Re: IN> Home for old Roles: Lilim of Nybbas Re: IN> Trade Rite Question Re: Lilim and Needs (Was Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2870) Re: Lilim and Needs (Was Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2870) IN> IN Detroit RE: IN> Planting the Hook Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> IN Detroit IN> time-travel in In Nomine? RE: IN> Planting the Hook RE: IN> Planting the Hook IN> Hidden Island Off Sicily May Reappear RE: IN> time-travel in In Nomine? Re: IN> time-travel in In Nomine? Re: IN> Hidden Island Off Sicily May Reappear IN> Summon Dead Movie Star [Summon/special] IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2870 Re: IN> time-travel in In Nomine? Re: IN> Hidden Island Off Sicily May Reappear Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> Planting the Hook Re: IN> Hidden Island Off Sicily May Reappear Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> Trade Rite Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:08:29 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Home for old Roles - The Ghosters Yes..he was cruel, was evil - but he's dead now...so it's all okay. Until his ghost returns...... The Ghosters are sponsored by Nightmares & by Saminga's Demon of Ghosts. When a Calabite publicly loses a Vessel with a high level Role, the group contacts him, asking if he'd like to keep using it. If he agrees, they teach him (for a small fee - typically a Geas equal to the level of the Role) how to modify his Role to become a Role(Ghost). A Role as a Ghost is not normally useful, as a demon in celestial form cannot harm a Corporeal being, and so rarely causes disturbance which the Role can cover. They do have a few uses, though. Firstly, the demon can engage a real ghost in Celestial combat, and the Role will cover the resulting damage. Of course, the Demon of Ghosts discourages this; he doesn't want his Word weakened. Still, irritating ghosts sometimes need to be removed. Secondly, using Corporeal Projection to create a 'ghost' allows the Calabite to use their resonance on mortals viewing the ghost with a reasonable chance of the Symphony accepting the damage. This only works if the demon has been taught by the Demon of Ghosts, and as long as the mortal doesn't detect the demon's Vessel. The real use of a Role(Ghost) though, is in The Marches. If a mortal falls asleep near where the Role 'died', the demon can appear in the mortal's dreamscape and 'haunt' them - using the Role to prevent the loss of Mind Hits causing disturbance. Waking up uninjured (but with a new Ethereal Disadvantage) normally persuades the victim that they were attacked, while persuading everyone else that the victim merely had a nightmare. Of course, the ability to thump dreaming mortals isn't much use, unless the Servitor serves Beleth..perhaps the Role makes it worth changing Superiors? Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:44:41 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Lilim and Needs (Was Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2870) At 09:35 AM 11/24/2002 -0500, Serai1@aol.com wrote: >3. Get a non-malakite friend to kill it, not having oaths your friend doesn't >have a need. He's just doing it for fun. If K.K. is really reading for a Need to kill her, that sets an *extremely* dangerous precedent, since what it amounts to is "You Need me to allow you to kill me"; it allows for things like Lilim reading "I Need to walk away from this" at level 1, and doing nothing but standing aside to let the person walk away - and collecting the hook. It seems counter-intuitive to me that a Lilim should be able to collect a geas-hook by doing nothing, especially when the Need was generated by a situation that the Lilim herself created. (If the Malakite had not known K.K. was a demon and seen her standing there, he would not have needed to kill her; if J. Random Lilim hadn't put K. Random Non-Lilim into a bad situation, K. wouldn't have needed to walk away.) This also leads to a potential feedback loop: anyone who knows about Lilim and what they can do will probably have a considerable "Need to not have a Lilim inflict geas-hooks upon me". Detecting this Need and actively not setting hooks... sets a hook. (Which violates the Need, invalidating the hook... and so on.) It's MHO that Needs should be active on the part of the Lilim: "kill yourself" rather than "allow me to kill you", "clear a path to the door and hold it for me" rather than "let me get out of here". Thoughts? - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:19:33 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Home for old Roles - Part I: Scipio's. Interesting. I rather like the non-combat use of the Kyrio Attunement here. Of course, Celestials have no trouble faking death when a Role gets too old. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:23:13 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Home for old Roles: Lilim of Nybbas Hmmm... a useful variation of this could be "Summon Historical Figure." There must be plenty of Sorcerers who want to converse with Alexander the Great, Caesar (pick one) or Hitler. Impersonating such people should be no problem for well-prepared demons. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:26:27 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Trade Rite Question - --- "C. Mark Pearson" wrote: > I'm wondering if that's how it is meant to work, because > the only way to > make 100% profit on something is to get it for free. Not so. You make 100% profit if you can sell something for twice as much as it cost you to obtain it. The Blair Witch Project made well over 1,000% profit; the film made a few million dollars but only cost less than $20,000 to make. Traders fulfill this Rite when they can can create a favorable (to them) discrepancy between price and cost. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:50:25 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: Lilim and Needs (Was Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2870) >It's MHO that Needs should be active on the part of the Lilim: "kill >yourself" rather than "allow me to kill you", "clear a path to the door and >hold it for me" rather than "let me get out of here". Thoughts? I don't think so, nope. I like the whole "gotcha" angle of Lilim seeing a Need and fulfilling it with the least work possible to them, then getting a return proportionate to the original Need regardless of the work done. It can also flip the otherway, of course -- a Lilim might do a lot of work and find that the Need has devalued or the human weasels out of part of the Geas' wording. And K.K. is getting a lot of Geasa, true, but she's also burning through Vessels like mad. That's expensive; she just has to hope it eventually turns out to be worth it. >-EDG William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:51:47 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: Lilim and Needs (Was Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2870) Oh, and I didn't answer my biggest reason for liking the setup: It's right up a demon's alley to create a Need and then satisfy it. Hell, modern human media would just call it good advertising. ;^) William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:50:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Jerry B." Subject: IN> IN Detroit My current game is set in Detroit and I'm trying to flesh out the city. Celestials, Soldiers, NPCs, tethers, and what not. My problem comes in the way of tethers. Thus far, I've identified 3. Hitsville, USA, the original Motown studios, I've made a tether to Eli. I'm sure that General Motors would be a tether of some kind, but I'm not quite sure to whom. It could go multiple ways. On Heaven's side, it could be Jean or Marc. On Hell's, Mammon or Vapula. Hell Night, I've made kind of a seasonal tether to Belial. Every October 30, wherever the burnings and riots start, the tether opens. Once I run the Revelations Cycle, it'll fork into Furfur's section of Shal-Mari. That oughtta tick Belial right off. Can anyone think of others? And what kinds of things do you think of when a campaign in a city that hasn't been covered in canon? ===== - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Free your mind, and your ass will follow". - George Clinton - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:02:30 EST From: TWISTEDKUB@aol.com Subject: RE: IN> Planting the Hook >From original email: <> >From E. McCoy: <> Thanks to all who participated in the resulting discussion for the clarification regarding Geases. I learned a lot. But I'm still confused about something: why do some of the IN rulebooks imply that Lilims can easily get "entangled" in a web of Geases? To me, it seems pretty straightforward: they do something for someone, and then someone owes them a favor. To me, it sounds like the Lilim is always in control of the situation. How do they get "entangled", exactly...? I suppose some of a Lilim's entanglement may come from the fact that Lilith begins each Lilim's existence by having the poor thing "owe favors" to the Prince she serves. But this can only cause limited entanglement. And why on earth would a Lilim ever want to Geas *herself*? This is hinted at in the rulebooks but it is beyond me. Sorry if these questions seem dense. But I'm a Servitor of Stone, after all. :) Scott in Boston. Reliever of Stone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:09:39 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit - --- "Jerry B." wrote: > what kinds of things > do you think of when a campaign in a city that hasn't > been covered in canon? Word presence (as in, which Superiors have major agendas there) is a big one. You should define whether that presence is due to history (i.e. David having the Alamo in San Antonio, TX as a Tether) or current/future plans (like Nybbas' activities in LA). The history and local color of the city is an excellent guide. For example, my campaign set in San Antonio has the route of the Battle of Flowers parade as a transient Tether to Novalis. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:13:07 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit At 09:50 AM 11/25/2002 -0800, Jerry B. wrote: >Hitsville, USA, the original Motown studios, I've made >a tether to Eli. Might work. Could also be Song (but to where does it go?) or Trade. Infernally, Factions or the Media. >I'm sure that General Motors would be a tether of some >kind, but I'm not quite sure to whom. It could go >multiple ways. On Heaven's side, it could be Jean or >Marc. On Hell's, Mammon or Vapula. Consider also the Wind, Destiny, Factions, or Fate. >Can anyone think of others? And what kinds of things >do you think of when a campaign in a city that hasn't >been covered in canon? I don't know much (read: anything) about Detroit (although given its treatment in _A Fistful of Yen_, anything in the city could be a Tether to Nightmares), but I'd suggest looking for less-obvious Tethers. Which building in the city was the first to be erected? (Or, what was the site of the first settlement?) Have there been any major uprisings, disasters, or events which have a more-or-less permanent place in the city's history? How about spots well-known and well-loved (or well-hated) by students of the local college*, bars that transcend company, class, race, or gender identity*, or other such locations? Also, you need to consider - outside of the influence of Tethers - what the celestial and ethereal presence is like in the city. Regardless of Tethers, which Archangels and Princes maintain more-or-less permanent Servitors in Detroit? Which ethereal gods? >"Free your mind, and your ass will follow". - George Clinton Watch the language. - -EDG * Here's an example: The Kicking Stone Earlham College, Richmond, IN Very Small Tether to Destiny (1 Force, 1 Essence per month) The Kicking Stone is something of a good-luck charm for Earlham students. It is a stone obelisk, pitted and weathered, about four feet tall and five inches to a side at the base. It stands to the west of the main drive of the College, and although it is now obscured by bushes and benches along the roadway and the walkway that runs past it, it is a spot well-loved by the residents of the College. A hopeful student must simply walk up to the stone, make a wish, and kick the stone as hard as he can; the harder the kick (without, of course, breaking the stone), the more likely the wish is to be granted, say the legends. Wishes are typically limited to good grades on a test or social help, although on at least one occasion a student has wished for financial aid in a time of need (and received a scholarship shortly after!). The Tether actually does help to fulfill these wishes, in a way; if it currently has Essence stored in it (a rare enough occurrence, and it only ever has 1 Essence at a time), a sufficiently hard kick will transfer the Essence from the stone to the kicker. This gift can only be used, however, to fulfill the wish made by the user (if the user is not Symphonically aware, the Essence will not be spent until the user is making a roll that relates to granting the wish, at which point it - and all of the user's remaining Essence - is *automatically* spent). The Seneschal is an Elohite of Destiny who lives in the monument and gravestone dealership across the street (since living at or in the Stone itself would be difficult at best). He likes the students, and will occasionally donate the proceeds from his store to a student in particular need, but he is usually content merely to watch over the Kicking Stone, performing healing Songs on it as it needs them. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:17:39 EST From: TWISTEDKUB@aol.com Subject: IN> time-travel in In Nomine? Greeetings, I'm GMing an In Nomine campaign, and my next adventure is going to involve a time-jaunt (back to colonial New England). The characters will be using a (very powerful) relic (created/owned by Yves) to do it. I'm pretty excited about the possibilities, but have some questions. My main question is: when the PC's go back in time, will they be able to avail themselves of their Rites while there? All of the PCs are fairly old, which means that they have a "past-self" in this storyline (who is working in heaven OR a different part of the world...i.e., the PC's won't be"meeting themselves", I'll make sure of it). It seems to me that since their "past self" is present, their "past self" should be the only one who can gain essence by using Rites. My PC's shouldn't be able to (since they're not even supposed to be there, at that time, in the first place). This is a fairly important question because I'm designing Yves' relic (a stopwatch, actually) to require 25 essence to activate...and it will be sucking that from all celestials in a 15 foot radius upon activation. So, once the party arrives "in the past", each will be very low on essence (4 players...c. 6 essence each!). They'll want to use Rites to re-power themselves. Don't worry...in case you were wondering...Yves is going to be keeping an eye on the PC's. There will be *major* symphonic disturbances if they try to mess with anyone's destiny (or the course of major events in history). The main reason Yves is letting them use the relic is to give them some insight into the back-story behind the current campaign. Has anything been published on time-travel in In Nomine? There are no relics listed in Liber Reliquorum which allow time-travel (maybe that's just too poweful an ability?). Just curious. Thanks! Scott in Boston. Reliever of Stone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:21:08 -0500 From: EDG Subject: RE: IN> Planting the Hook At 01:02 PM 11/25/2002 -0500, TWISTEDKUB@aol.com wrote: >But I'm still confused about something: why do some of the IN rulebooks imply >that Lilims can easily get "entangled" in a web of Geases? To me, it seems >pretty straightforward: they do something for someone, and then someone owes >them a favor. To me, it sounds like the Lilim is always in control of the >situation. How do they get "entangled", exactly...? This typically happens when Lilim owe favors to other people (mostly other Lilim, although with self-Geases it's possible too; see below). Once this begins to happen, the Lilim runs the risk that she will be given contradictory orders. It's also possible that some of the favors that she's done will come back to haunt her. (Consider a Lilim who sets a geas-hook by breaking someone out of jail, when it was the forces of the Game and Fate that put the victim in jail to begin with. She might have a geas-hook now, but it won't do her any good when the hit squads arrive.) >I suppose some of a Lilim's entanglement may come from the fact that Lilith >begins each Lilim's existence by having the poor thing "owe favors" to the >Prince she serves. But this can only cause limited entanglement. Specifically, Geases at level 3 (if she's not aligned to a Prince). Not necessarily all owed to the same Prince. Imagine what happens when Asmodeus and Valefor call in a geas at the same time to do mutually exclusive things. >And why on earth would a Lilim ever want to Geas *herself*? This is hinted at >in the rulebooks but it is beyond me. It's a sign of good faith. A Geas is a compulsion, and by geasing herself, the Lilim is putting a guarantee on her future actions. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:12:25 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> Planting the Hook - --- TWISTEDKUB@aol.com wrote: > But I'm still confused about something: why do some of > the IN rulebooks imply > that Lilims can easily get "entangled" in a web of > Geases? It's not just a question of the Lilim _doing_ favors. Sometimes even the shrewdest Lilim _needs_ a favor. When someone agrees to do a favor for a Lilim, she can Geas herself to pay it back (think of it as an infernal promissory note). You're correct in thinking that Lilim wouldn't want to do this -- if the other party didn't bring it up, few of them would offer -- but many Celestials will insist on it to insure the Tempter's honesty. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:23:40 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> Hidden Island Off Sicily May Reappear Sounds like the plot of an Indiana Jones book, doesn't it? http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/11/25/italy.island.reut/index.html Fire (of either flavor), Factions, or Stone? - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:23:41 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> time-travel in In Nomine? "My main question is: when the PC's go back in time, will they be able to avail themselves of their Rites while there?" Rites draw Essence from the Superior they are associated with. If they use Rites of Yves, they ought to work all right, since Yves is sponsoring the whole time-trip. With other Superiors, there might be security problems if Yves doesn't want them to know about the time-trip, since they might realize the angel is somehow in New England AND somewhere else at the same time (or in implausibly rapid succession). There's also a problem if the Superior wasn't a Superior in the period in question, but that's unlikely. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:34:00 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> time-travel in In Nomine? At 01:17 PM 11/25/2002 -0500, TWISTEDKUB@aol.com wrote: >My main question is: when the PC's go back in time, will they be able to >avail themselves of their Rites while there? They probably will... for a very, very brief period. As you say, there are prior-history versions of these angels wandering around. Therefore, assuming each angel is still serving the same Archangel, there's no reason why the angel shouldn't be able to claim Essence in his own name. However, check out the Rites of each relevant Archangel and make certain that they're not hopelessly anachronistic. Furthermore, what happens when one of the PC angels performs a Rite to regain Essence while his Archangel is in a meeting with his past self (or while that Archangel knows that the angel is in Trauma)? This isn't the only bad thing that can happen with time travel, though... What happens when one of the PCs goes into Trauma at the same time as his past self, or at a time when others know that the angel isn't in Trauma? What happens when one of the PCs fails his Colonial English roll? (It wasn't a different language, but the accents, dialects, and vocabulary were entirely dissimilar.) What happens when they run into another angel, from the specified time period, and make reference to an Archangel or Demon Prince who hasn't ascended to that position yet? (What kind of a feedback loop would a Mercurian get into if he resonated a past self?) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:44:14 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Hidden Island Off Sicily May Reappear > Fire (of either flavor), Factions, or Stone? Factions and Stone are going to be fighting for this one. What's the betting pool up to now? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:57:02 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Summon Dead Movie Star [Summon/special] Hmmm... I've been lead to understand that most women would prefer to _be_ Scarlett O'Hara than to sleep with Clark Gable. Of course you can still plant a Hook by chatting over coffee. Fanboys, go figure. ...Fangirls? > Lilith will occasionally build a Lilim using the Ethereal > Forces of a mortal star, granting them the memories of a mortal worth > impersonating. Wouldn't simply having a Role/x give you the memories? A Role can be used as a skill of how to be Role. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:57:03 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2870 From: Serai1@aol.com > 3. Get a non-malakite friend to kill it, not having oaths your friend doesn't > have a need. He's just doing it for fun. Good point! Nobody said a Malkie had to "Make Evil Stop Living" itself! Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk! Unless the GM rules that inviting your friend to help still counts, since _you_ invited your friend. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:59:05 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> time-travel in In Nomine? - --- TWISTEDKUB@aol.com wrote: > My main question is: when the PC's go back in time, will > they be able to > avail themselves of their Rites while there? They should, if their respective Superiors are Superiors in the era that they travel to. A Rite draws on the Superior's personal store of Essence and thus is not dependent on the state of the person performing the Rite. > All of the PCs are fairly old, > which means that they have a "past-self" in this > storyline (who is working in > heaven OR a different part of the world...i.e., the PC's > won't be"meeting > themselves", I'll make sure of it). > It seems to me that since their "past self" is present, > their "past self" > should be the only one who can gain essence by using > Rites. The way that I'd work it is this; the self who belongs in the current timeline is the only one who gets the daily Essence recharge. That's the self who belongs there at that time, so that's the one whom the Symphony recognizes. If you want to further limit their ability to regain Essence, you can limit their access to Rites. For example, Eli's consensual sex Rite is harder to fulfill if they have to avoid contact with the locals to avoid paradoxes. This assumes that the Creationer in the group can't have sex with the other PC's, of course. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:01:03 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Hidden Island Off Sicily May Reappear No mystery here; the Olympians are trying to raise Atlantis. Yes, I know that you've read about the Thera eruption -- but who's to say that the actual location in the IN universe wasn't an island off the coast of Sicily? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:13:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Burzelic Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit The advice given about small places being good tethers is excellent advice. I also wish I could give you some more exact stuff about Detroit, alas I cannot. What I can do is give you a summary of the stuff I came up with for Milwaukee and maybe that'll give you some inspirado. Milwaukee's always had problems, both corporeally and celestially. Since it's advent it has been contested. Early on it was fought over by Lust and Flowers. FLowers because of the logging industry Wisconsin had early on (Animals had an influence in keeping it small. There were bear attacks within city limits into the 1900's.) Lust had a firm hold on the city however because of Chicago politicians. Bordellos abound on the streets of Old Milwaukee, servicing clientele not wanting the publicity in Chicago to the south (primarily politicians) and loggers come in from the wilds. However, Gluttony has had a grip in Milwaukee since it's advent and continued to hold on after Lust lost the battle. As the city aged and prostitution was no longer seen as something done legally outside of Nevada, Andrealphus became much less seen in Brew City. Instead, Haagenti built up a huge front of beer and cheese. The only real blows against this little empire was when Pabst breweries left town and Ambrosia Chocolates also beat feet. (Although, that loss was not without gain.) What grew out of the old Ambrosia fiasco was a joint effort between Haagenti and Saminga. Today, both Gluttony and Death share a tether most people wished didn't exist. Jeffery Dahmer's old apartment houses quite the history. Other hellish tethers are the Marcus Ampitheatre on the Summerfest grounds, dominated over by the Media and MSOE, Milwaukee School of Engineering. A happy little technology nest. Not that the city is without it's heavenly influences. Milwaukee is sometimes known as the city of parks because of the abundance of land dedicated to maintaining the natural beauty. This all culminates into the center of a tether to Flowers at the Milwaukee Botanical Gardens. It is also because of the attention to nature, and Novalis' help, that Milwaukee is one of Animals' most urban connections. At the edge of the city is a great cathedral up on a rise just short of classifying as a mountain. Aptly named, this is Holy Hill, a Catholic church and tether to Swords as the general likes to maintain a presence near major conflict zones such as this city. Miller brewery is fiercely protected by both a powerful and old seneschal who knows how Gluttons think and very regular visits from the Angel of Beer who doesn't want another Blue Ribbon Fiasco like a couple decades earlier. So Milwaukee, and honestly most of Wisconsin boils down to: Flowers vs. Gluttony with influences from everyone but most notably Creation, Death, Swords, and Media. Well, I fel better now that I got that out. I hope it helped SOMEONE out there. I have a whole lot more to all this, let me know if anyone's interested. This is how I described the IN scene in my town. Start with the majorest influences and figure it out from there. Jim __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:21:31 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> Planting the Hook > > But I'm still confused about something: why do some of the IN rulebooks imply > that Lilims can easily get "entangled" in a web of Geases? To me, it seems > pretty straightforward: they do something for someone, and then someone owes > them a favor. To me, it sounds like the Lilim is always in control of the > situation. How do they get "entangled", exactly...? > > I suppose some of a Lilim's entanglement may come from the fact that Lilith > begins each Lilim's existence by having the poor thing "owe favors" to the > Prince she serves. But this can only cause limited entanglement. > > And why on earth would a Lilim ever want to Geas *herself*? This is hinted at > in the rulebooks but it is beyond me. > First off, Free Lilim hardly ever get anything without giving someone a geas. At all, ESPECIALLY from Lilith; you're not a permanent asset to anyone, so they shouldn't give you anything; if you REALLY need a new song, attunement, artifact, etc, it's easy enough to promise someone a geas for it; since a Lilim is the only kind of demon whose word can be trusted, and even then only for a geas, there's no reason not to ask for a geas when dealing with a Lilim anyway--if she wants something that bad, she should be serious about it. A Lilim might not be able to exchange favors the way Lilith can, but if she has a few geases here and there, she could always call those in to complete the favor she wanted; this is a good reason to covet geases, not just take them when you need them. This also allows a Lilim to collect payment for a service before it's rendered, whereas an average demon would have to serve well in hope for rewards. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:03:09 +0800 From: dorigen@graffiti.net Subject: Re: IN> Hidden Island Off Sicily May Reappear > http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/11/25/italy.island.reut/index.html > > Fire (of either flavor), Factions, or Stone? Divine Fire or Stone. It's not physically destructive for Infernal Fire, and Factions will only want it if the surrounding countries start fighting over it. Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:13:39 -0700 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit Jerry B. wrote: > I'm sure that General Motors would be a tether of some > kind, but I'm not quite sure to whom. It could go > multiple ways. On Heaven's side, it could be Jean or > Marc. On Hell's, Mammon or Vapula. > Hmm. I assume you mean the GM building (and former headquarters) in the New Center area, and not the new GM headquarters in the Reinassance Center. I'd make that either Marc or Mammon (maybe usurped by Haagenti). The Reinassance Center is a good case for Dark Humor, given that it was built just before Detroit's lowest ebb, got remodeled four times in 20 years because the internal space was put together so stupidly (floors you could only get to by going above then and then back down, for example), and was built by Henry Ford II for ten times what GM paid for it when they decided to make it their world HQ. If you want a Lightning/Technology tether, I'd go with the Ford Rouge Complex. It's the facility that used to take iron ore and coal in one end and put cars out the other. A story could be that it was Lighning, but the power plant explosion (natural gas fired, sloppy maintenence) on the site a few years back twisted it to Technology. > Hell Night, I've made kind of a seasonal tether to > Belial. Every October 30, wherever the burnings and > riots start, the tether opens. Once I run the > Revelations Cycle, it'll fork into Furfur's section of > Shal-Mari. That oughtta tick Belial right off. > Hmm. The 30th was generally called Devil's Night, not Hell Night, when I was living in the Detroit area (that is, from 1981 to earlier this year), and the arson ran three or four days, starting on the 27th or 28th and running through the night of the 31st.. (The carnage has been reduced in recent years by massive community volunteer efforts, and the city administration and local news has rechristened the 30th as "Angels' Night" -- this seasonal Tether is probably weakening seriously, and would require significant effort to be saved.) The People Mover (a monorail) makes another decent Dark Humor tether (it doesn't move very many people, was built under a whites-denouncing black mayor from components bought from apartheid-era South Africa, it's mass transport that only gets used really during the auto show . . .) The mural at the site where Malice Green was killed, oddly enough, makes sense as a Novalis tether. The amazing thing was that no rioting broke out over two white cops killing a black man with flashlights with the LA riots in recent memory. Malphas still has to be ticked over that one, - -- Steven E. Ehrbar ehrbar@softhome.net stevenehrbar@elp.rr.com We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech. - David Brin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:40:08 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit From: "Jerry B." > > Can anyone think of others? And what kinds of things > do you think of when a campaign in a city that hasn't > been covered in canon? I have no idea how far from Detroit it is, but I would have the GM plant in Flint be a tether formerly to Trade (thanks to the historic actions of the union there,) which has since fallen to Greed. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:51:47 -0500 From: "C. Mark Pearson" Subject: Re: IN> Trade Rite Question - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Walton" To: Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:26 AM Subject: Re: IN> Trade Rite Question > --- "C. Mark Pearson" wrote: > > I'm wondering if that's how it is meant to work, because > > the only way to > > make 100% profit on something is to get it for free. > > Not so. You make 100% profit if you can sell something > for twice as much as it cost you to obtain it. The Blair > Witch Project made well over 1,000% profit; the film made a > few million dollars but only cost less than $20,000 to > make. Traders fulfill this Rite when they can can create a > favorable (to them) discrepancy between price and cost. > > ===== >

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

>

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices > acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

Yes, it is so. You cannot make more then 100% profit any more then you can score in the 100th percentile on a test. The proceeds from Blair Witch may have been thousands of times the investment, but it is impossible for it to have made a profit greater then 100%. Here's why: (As an aside, there has to be a Demon of Hollywood Accounting, probably a Balseraph. Anyone that's ever seen the way studios define their 'costs' to be able to claim even a multi-hundreds of millions of dollars blockbuster like Spiderman made no profit ought to come away with that impression.) Profit is defined as: The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. So let's say you have a Trader, and he sets up a factory that makes Widgets. His total cost per Widget is $1.00 (US). If he sells those Widgets for $100.00 (US). These are some popular Widgets and people think $100.00(US) is a steal. How much profit has he made? He's made 99% profit. See, when he hands over his Widget and gets a Benji Franklin in return, he has to subtract his costs (a G. Washington), which leaves him with $99.00 (US). 99 is what percentage of 100? 99% obviously. The only way he could make 100% profit is if he had no costs. Nitpicking? Possibly. I think reading the Rite to mean 'Make a profit equal to 100% of your investment' fits the word of Trade much better then does the literal wording. But there is a semantic and mathematic difference between that statement and 'Make 100% profit.' C. Mark Pearson ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2872 ********************************