in_nomine-digest Thursday, November 28 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2874 In this digest: Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> Home for old Roles - The Suppliers RE: IN> time-travel in In Nomine? Re: IN> TANSTAAFL IN> Carol Re: IN> Carol RE: IN> Carol RE: IN> Carol IN> Trade Rite Question IN> K.K. the Munchkin (Re: Lilim and Needs) Re: IN> Need, Hooks, and KK Re: IN> Need, Hooks, and KK IN> Hollywood Accounting Re: IN> Need, Hooks, and KK RE: IN> K.K. the Munchkin (Re: Lilim and Needs) Re: IN> IN Detroit IN> Need list of Songs out of Liber Canticorum! Re: IN> Need list of Songs out of Liber Canticorum! Re: IN> Need list of Songs out of Liber Canticorum! IN> Soul Killing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 05:23:15 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit - --- Cameron McCurry wrote: > when you demand that unions are to be the only source > of work, you force > companies to take facilities to countries where prices > are more reasonable. This isn't inimicable to profit, though; it only effects _who_ gets to profit. > ObIN: Which makes me think that Unions were corrupted by > a joint effort of Malphas and Mammon. Most certainly. Kobal might've had some input, too. An organization designed to protect jobs doing something that causes people to lose jobs is right up his alley. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 05:26:39 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Home for old Roles - The Suppliers This is friggin' scary. Nicely done. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:33:44 EST From: TWISTEDKUB@aol.com Subject: RE: IN> time-travel in In Nomine? In a message dated 11/26/02 12:53:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com writes: << > their "past self" > should be the only one who can gain essence by using > Rites. The way that I'd work it is this; the self who belongs in the current timeline is the only one who gets the daily Essence recharge. That's the self who belongs there at that time, so that's the one whom the Symphony recognizes. >> Thanks to everyone for their input. I think I'm going to work it in the following way: the PC's are not going to get their daily Essence recharge, as explained in the email snip copied above. They will still be able to gain Essence via their Rites, however, with the following qualification: I'm going to make a secret die roll to see if their Superior somehow "notices" that two "selves" of each PC are running around on Earth. The reasons the Superior might notice this include (as mentioned in a previous email): both "selves" are asking for Essence (via Rites) at the same time; the Superior is talking to the "past self" while the "future self" (the PC) is performing a Rite. These would be rare situations, certainly, but they *could* happen; hence my secret die roll...(a roll of 2...or an intervention...on d666 would mean the Superior has noticed). Some interesting questions came up also (from anthoch@earlham.edu), the most relevant of which is: << What happens when one of the PCs fails his Colonial English roll? (It wasn't a different language, but the accents, dialects, and vocabulary were entirely dissimilar.) >> I hadn't thought of that. I will use that for comic effect, if nothing else. I don't foresee the other problems you mentioned (e.g. both "selves" going into Trauma at once) occurring. The "time-travel" adventure I'm planning is going to take place as soon as my current adventure ends. Meanwhile...we just played again last night...and after six sessions with *no* interventions whatsoever, we rolled *two* infernal interventions (666) last night! These interventions effectively took out my elohite and malakite PC's (who were battling a calabite of Saminga and his undead minions). Luckily, the remaining PC (a cherub) removed himself from battle and successfully invoked his superior (The Angel of Cemeteries--my own creation--who reports directly to Archangel David). Very smart move on his part. When we wrap up this encounter next session, I predict the tide of the battle will turn in the PC's favor. (-Maybe-). Happy Thanksgiving to one and all, - --Scott in Boston. Reliever of Stone ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:33:38 EST From: TWISTEDKUB@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> TANSTAAFL In a message dated 11/27/02 6:12:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com writes: << Nothing is free. >> Ah. Get it now. Thanks Elizabeth and others: I understand Lilim better now. Sounds complicated! :) [..I'm not used to cooking up such "complicated" plotlines in my campaign: the PC's all serve David...and the main "baddie" is Saminga. Suffice to say, these two are not the two brightest bulbs in the IN pantheon. :) Which keeps my plot fairly simple. *Laugh* ] - --Scott in Boston. Reliever of Stone ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:16:50 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> Carol Not -that- sort. It's not even past Thanksgiving yet. http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=etherjammer&itemid=3523 - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:33:02 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Carol Whoa. That's the best IN ghost story I've ever read. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:51:32 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Carol Very good story. But do you realize that Jehovah's Witnesses have a strong and decided DISbelief in ghosts? They don't even believe the soul survives bodily death, but instead believe it will be reconstituted along with the body after Armageddon. When Witnesses believe in spectral phenomena at all, they dismiss them as demonic in origin. The young Witness lady who tried to join in had to be very muddled, or a new convert, or both. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:10:28 -0500 From: EDG Subject: RE: IN> Carol At 01:51 PM 11/27/2002 -0500, Wajenberg, Earl wrote: >But do you realize that Jehovah's Witnesses have a strong and decided >DISbelief in ghosts? I didn't run across that, no. As the girl is only 16, she may well be muddled or a new initiate - or she may be about to start up a *new* splinter sect... Thanks for pointing that out. :) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:48:36 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Trade Rite Question >> Is this net or gross? > > Gross is what you make before subtracting expenses. > What's left after recouping expenses is net. > >> If it's net, that could explain why Hollywood is under >> demon control. > > Uh huh. People who are in debt are easier to influence. What I was refering to was the phrase, "Only the gross, there's no such thing as the net." Folks in Hollywood have been known to put their pool boys on the expence sheet so that there is no net profit. It keeps them from having to pay taxes on the money they make from a movie/tv show, and a clever tax lawyer will actually be able to get them a tax break because they "lost" so much money. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:09:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> K.K. the Munchkin (Re: Lilim and Needs) At 12:39 AM +0000 11/27/02, Jarrod Carmichael wrote: >My one point is, how many malakim really want to stop at vessel killing. I >know my players malakim get off on Soul Killing things if they can. What >does she do when she senses that need? As far as im concerned, if a malakims >needs is to kill you. Its soul death, your vessel is just a shell. Maybe. Of course, 'vessel kill' is likely to be a Need for many Malakim on a lower level -- if she takes the penalty to her 12 Perception (see the IPG for looking for specific Needs), she can look for the one that she can fulfill. >Also. How does a character come to this course of action? Its kinda >trivialiing trauma for one. And it just doesn't sit right. I cant explain >why, but its the same feeling I get when running a LARP game and players go. >"were gonna by a deep mining tunneler and........ with lasers........ and >guards with sawn off shotguns and laser sight........ with a melon". You >know the drill people. Hey, she's not canon. (And she's not a PC. She's the GM's little toy to torment characters with.) How does she come to that action? Simple -- she was built as a GM experiment to see how much the system could be munchkined, and if the character could work at all. (Yes, other demons should think she's crazy, going into Trauma like that. Loonies Unite!) If you don't like her, don't use her! >I say. If she does it again, have the malakim or ally possess her body and >have her go celstial, Er, that's not how the Song of Possession works. Or Kyrio possessing. Those would dump her in the Marches. Assuming that you could do it -- Will 12 is nasty. If you did do it, you should then invoke your Superior and depossess quickly (before she gets somewhere celestial) so that your Superior can deal with her. A Song of Seals and kid gloves might well work. > then whup her. Song of thunder? Will 12. >Ofanim of war? There >is no sure fire escape mechanism. Or simply have someone use song of >attraction (tracking one)and murder her in her sleep. Celestials don't sleep. (I'm not saying K.K. is impossible to get rid of, or even soul-kill. But she's very difficult. This means that if the PCs _do_ manage to nail her little green hide to the wall, they should be _very_ pleased with themselves!) - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:56:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Need, Hooks, and KK At 4:39 PM -0500 11/26/02, S.D. wrote: [...] >The wording of the Need was "give him a chance to Redeem", not "get him >Redeemed" - Oh, well, if the GM said _that_ was the Need, then sure. Silly GM. The proper angel-trap has the Lilim looking in the angel's eyes and seeing the Lilim reflected back -- with the addition of feathered wings. >...that and the GM and I *both* agreed that the only way Di would survive Kobal >finding out would have to be if he had a good reason for staying to talk with >the Malakite (beyond "I didn't want him to kill me!"), and actually *having* a >hook on him took care of that. ^^; Kobal doesn't buy "suckering an angel into thinking I'm a redemption candidate *spit* so I can prank him good"? Darn. O:> >>As near as I can figure, K.K. is [...] only a GM munchkin [...] >>She's quite controllable as a PC. > >Right. As a PC, she's fine. As a NPC, she's munchkin, but just because of the >actual *nature* of her main trick. (Which was mostly based on the realization that if you stint your Corporeal Forces to the max, and max out your Will, you can have someone who dies easy, and gets out of Trama fast... O;> ) >If it was...oh, say, getting a lot of hooks on Ofanim/Windies by helping >them escape jail or something like that, she wouldn't have the Vessels or >the deathtraps, and while she *would* have a decent amount of Geases they >wouldn't be on the Choir which seems to be one of the hardest to hook but the >most useful if you can. You'd want to design a different character for that, though -- maybe a 2/3/4 split, with a good Intelligence and a nice Role as a judge or something appropriate. Make her work for the Game, so that you get the Role for free... - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:19:51 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Need, Hooks, and KK >>The wording of the Need was "give him a chance to Redeem", not "get him >>Redeemed" - > >Oh, well, if the GM said _that_ was the Need, then sure. Silly GM. The >proper angel-trap has the Lilim looking in the angel's eyes and seeing >the Lilim reflected back -- with the addition of feathered wings. [snickers] >>...that and the GM and I *both* agreed that the only way Di would survive Kobal >>finding out would have to be if he had a good reason for staying to talk with >>the Malakite (beyond "I didn't want him to kill me!"), and actually *having* a >>hook on him took care of that. ^^; > >Kobal doesn't buy "suckering an angel into thinking I'm a redemption >candidate *spit* so I can prank him good"? Darn. O:> ...he would, yes! ^^ But Di didn't get a chance to prank him then, and the party's current orders are "Don't Get Caught" [capital letters and all, as the Bal and I have been reminded every five seconds by the Shedite and various NPCs], so, y'know. Save it for later. ...besides, Di now has the JudgementTether's phone number, Farce of Mistaken Identity, and a decent amount of time in the Judgement Malakite's presence (certainly enough to mimic his voice...) >>If it was...oh, say, getting a lot of hooks on Ofanim/Windies by helping >>them escape jail or something like that, she wouldn't have the Vessels or >>the deathtraps, and while she *would* have a decent amount of Geases they >>wouldn't be on the Choir which seems to be one of the hardest to hook but the >>most useful if you can. > >You'd want to design a different character for that, though -- maybe >a 2/3/4 split, with a good Intelligence and a nice Role as a judge or >something appropriate. Make her work for the Game, so that you get the >Role for free... Ooo. Interesting idea... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:41:56 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Hollywood Accounting - --- BC Petery wrote: > Folks in Hollywood have been known to put their pool boys > on the expence > sheet so that there is no net profit. It keeps them from > having to pay taxes > on the money they make from a movie/tv show, and a clever > tax lawyer will > actually be able to get them a tax break because they > "lost" so much money. Ah, yes. This is why some movies get made -- they're supposed to lose money in order to lighten the studio's tax burden. The film Lobster Man from Mars is about just such an attempt. Hmmm, plot seed... THE CUTTING ROOM FLOOR Nybbas' latest pet project is a stunning example of formulaic tripe. In fact, this one is so bad that even moviegoers on the level that Nybbas wants to drag everyone down to can see that it's crap. That's OK; this one is supposed to lose money (Mammon is heavily invested in the studio and needs the tax shelter). The PC's job (assuming angelic PC's -- this would be a great run for angels of Creation and Dreams) is to make some subtle changes in the picture to make the finished product less infernal and more heavenly. Turning it into a sleeper hit (and thus smacking Mammon with the taxes) is highly desired -- PR courtesy of an angel of Trade might help with this part. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:39:41 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: Re: IN> Need, Hooks, and KK >>The wording of the Need was "give him a chance to Redeem", not "get him >>Redeemed" - > >Oh, well, if the GM said _that_ was the Need, then sure. Silly GM. The >proper angel-trap has the Lilim looking in the angel's eyes and seeing >the Lilim reflected back -- with the addition of feathered wings. [grins] Oh, it was intentional. See, the party's commands were four-fold: 1) Prevent person X from reaching his fate at this juncture (though later's fine) [person X is an author of darkly funny plays who needs to get FAMOUS before going on a murder-suicide rampage, see...], 2)Make sure Person X keeps writing, 3) Have Fun, and 4) Don't Get Caught. Now, there's two ways to Not Get Caught - the Disney's Aladdin way ("Getting into trouble a little early today, aren't we?" "You're only in trouble if you get caught." "Got you!" "...I'm in trouble."), and the Avoidance way ("If I don't do anything out of line and police myself VERY thoroughly, I'll not get caught.") They're comedians who've, against all GM expectations, chosen the Avoidance way. Their Funniness is limited to getting their dissonance conditions out of the way, usually at 1 am, and in out of the way places. The rest of the time, they're being very, very serious. As GM, I figured I might as well give 'em the opportunity for Funniness and provided them with a Judgment Malakite who's still naive enough that he gave the Lilim an opportunity to resonate him to *prove his good intentions*. Now I'm sitting back to see if the PCs do in fact fulfill Kobal instructions 3). After all, there's truly hundreds of Funny things one can do with a Geas on a Judge Malak. >>...that and the GM and I *both* agreed that the only way Di would survive Kobal >>finding out would have to be if he had a good reason for staying to talk with >>the Malakite (beyond "I didn't want him to kill me!"), and actually *having* a >>hook on him took care of that. ^^; > >Kobal doesn't buy "suckering an angel into thinking I'm a redemption >candidate *spit* so I can prank him good"? Darn. O:> Sure, he does, but in lack of any prank at the time, a hook with promises for future Funniness is the second best thing. ^_^ >>If it was...oh, say, getting a lot of hooks on Ofanim/Windies by helping >>them escape jail or something like that, she wouldn't have the Vessels or >>the deathtraps, and while she *would* have a decent amount of Geases they >>wouldn't be on the Choir which seems to be one of the hardest to hook but the >>most useful if you can. > >You'd want to design a different character for that, though -- maybe >a 2/3/4 split, with a good Intelligence and a nice Role as a judge or >something appropriate. Make her work for the Game, so that you get the >Role for free... ...That's creepy. I *like* it. I think I'll use it..... ^_~ Harukami - ---- http://haru_in.tripod.com/ Haru's IN page: Game logs, art, and fiction. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:17:04 -0700 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> K.K. the Munchkin (Re: Lilim and Needs) Another thing that I like about K.K. is that she represents a consequence of Heaven's greyer areas. On a moral level, theoretically speaking, the first Malakim shouldn't have wanted to kill her. She is not, by character, a murderess, torturer or all- around evil monster. She is not a "needs to die" case the way, say, Belial or most Samingans, or even Lilim like Ruby are. Even now, by the very nature of her shtick, she extracts her price in humiliation from those that want to _kill_ her, and only those. This strikes me as an appropriate karmic counter- balance for the "openly arrogant, painfully tyrran- ical, frequently cruel and generally destructive" side of Malakim. She could very easily use her geases to force Malakim to do much worse things than embarrass themselves -- outright evil acts, to begin with. As humiliating as performing "Pirates of Penzance" may be, molesting a nine-year-old in Times Square at noon in full public view is much, much worse, and Kobal would surely approve of either. In a Low Contrast game, this becomes even more pronounced. Lilim are, generally, sexually attracted to Malakim, and Malakim, generally, want to hurt and kill Lilim. This is creepy enough as it is, without tacking on the "Lilim as prostitutes" metaphor and turning Virtues into religious serial killers. (In my Backwards heresy, K.K. is by specific design "she who looks out for young Lilim who stupidly end up enlang- led with cute but misogynistic Malakim.") This is why I tend to see what Kanah is doing as being within the bounds of the resonance: Kanah's vessels belong to Kanah, and if she chooses to freely offer one up to a Malakite, she's actively doing a favour. The fact that the Malakite could take it by force is irrelevant. Conversely, in a (very) Bright, High Contrast game, I am sure that Heaven is already in the process of dealing with K.K. in the appropriate way. Imagine: Kanah has finally gotten enough geas-hooks to pull off her "Pirates of Penzance" stunt, including a particulairly juicy one on the Lord-Commander himself. A camera has been smuggled into the Council Spires, and the play will be broadcast from Stygia to Shal-Mari. And even as the minutes of the council meeting are being called, Laurence stands up and starts singing, followed by ranks of Malakim from every Word in Heaven. In a stark art-deco penthouse, Kobal begins to smirk. And then something unprecedented happens: Novalis joins in the performance, decked out in black and playing one of the more decidedly violent roles in the play. She is, after all, the divine comforter, and understands personal dynamics quite well indeed. David is the next angel to join the fracas; who better than he knows that a group can endure humiliation better than an individual, upon the strength of the bonds between it's members? From the upper tiers, Dominic reaches up and doffs the hood of his cloak, revealing the etherial beauty of his Seraphic form beneath; this is the first time many angels have seen the true face of the Archangel of Judgement. In the audience, Michael and Blandine can be seen chatting in an animated, friendly manner; Michael find Novalis playing the role of a wicked pirate vastly amusing, while Blandine is more interested in Laurence's, er, acting. Still, two mutually hostile Superiors are chatting back and forth like schoolchildren. In his penthouse, Kobal slowly realizes that Laurence is putting a lot more effort, humor and drama into his rendi- tion of the "modern major general" than a simple geas would be able to exact. He is neither laughing nor smirking, and his face is tight with a cold killing fury. The realization that the Host is laughing with it's Malakim, not at them, creeps over him with a wet sort of primal terror, and he flashes back to his tenure as the Angel of Laughter. His fists are clenched so tightly that tiny droplets of blood run to the ground where fingernails cut into flesh. He does not register the Lightning angel who planted the camera making a gesture that causes it to pan over the first three ranks of the merry audience, composed of the Redeemed demons who were the most well known in Hell -- you know, those guys that, as far as the Balprop is concerned, Do Not Exist? He does not register the urgent communique from Nybbas, stating that the broadcast tower in Perdition is full of Windy angels that weren't there a minute ago. But he does clue in when Asmodeus, the long-time butt of many of his jokes, steps into his penthouse, his ranseur gripped tightly in hand. Oops. The play ends after it's normal running time, but the festivities go on for much longer after that. The Council meeting had long since fallen apart anyway; what the heck. The general consensus is that this will have to be done again next year, minus the geasa. Most of Hell now knows that Heaven is a Nice place, that the Lord Commander of the Armies of God is not nearly as stuck up as rumor would lead some to believe, and indeed is not averse to a little knowing self-satire, and that Redemption is indeed a reality. The coming months will see a significant increase in Redemptions, especially among Lilim, and Baal will have a lot of trouble trying to convince Hell that Malakim are not the Good Guys (TM). And as for Kanah? If you want to be nice to her, she saw the way the wind was blowing early on, and by the time Kobal got over his reverie, her heart was smashed and she was cowering, scared, in some anonymous, rain-slicked warehouse in Boston with a Vessel that goes poof easier then a BtVS-style vampire. She can hide out from the Game and Dark Humor on Earth for as long as possible, but she will forever more be utterly alone -- which, ironically enough, is a fitting end for someone whose career was based on humiliating others. Or, she could Redeem, after which she would owe a whole bunch of Virtues a lot of very sincere and contrite apologies, and would have to be a very subdued and penitent presence in Heaven for a very long time thereafter. *If* you want to be nice to her. - -- Julian Mensch P.S. Yes, I like the character, and yes, I think she's a worthy addition to the game. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:40:29 -0700 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit BC Petery wrote: >>My current game is set in Detroit >> >> > >Isn't there a nuclear reactor nearby, just upwind? > > Used to be. Fermi II is now closed. - -- Steven E. Ehrbar ehrbar@softhome.net stevenehrbar@elp.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:48:54 -0700 From: Brian Westcott Subject: IN> Need list of Songs out of Liber Canticorum! Everyone, I was wondering if someone on the list that has a lot of spare time on their hands could please do me a favor. Please send me a list of Songs that are in the Liber Canticorum since I am seriously thinking of purchasing it for myself. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Brian Westcott brian@brianrich.net Meridian, Idaho ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 03:45:40 +0000 From: "Jarrod Carmichael" Subject: Re: IN> Need list of Songs out of Liber Canticorum! >Everyone, > I was wondering if someone on the list that has a lot of spare time >on their hands could please do me a favor. Please send me a list of >Songs that are in the Liber Canticorum since I am seriously thinking of >purchasing it for myself. Any help on this would be greatly >appreciated. Thanks! > Um, dude. There are hundreds of songs, just buy the book. Its really really good, and a great game resource. Extra rules for teaching and learning songs, even uncovering unknown ones. Extra rules on combing songs in a group, and virtuso performances by masters. Its probably the 2nd best supplement IMHO after the GM's book. (And possibly players guides for angels/demons). Buy the product. Help Beth buy a new pair of shoes. Mallakai JC _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 02:45:28 -0500 (EST) From: jamoge@wm.edu Subject: Re: IN> Need list of Songs out of Liber Canticorum! Quoting Brian Westcott : > Everyone, > I was wondering if someone on the list that > has a lot of spare time > on their hands could please do me a favor. > Please send me a list of > Songs that are in the Liber Canticorum since I > am seriously thinking of > purchasing it for myself. Any help on this > would be greatly > appreciated. Thanks! > Do you realize what a gargantuan task that would be? Not only that, but to categorize them as the book does, give the explanations the book does, tell how to implement plot hooks or how other players can use them as the book does. The book is really really good. Next to Reliquarum, it's one of my favorite of the Liber series. Do yourself a favor, if you have the cash, and pick up a copy. If not, well, the book is good, but it's not necessary. What's nice about the core book, apart from everything else about it, is that it gives a fairly good and balanced showing of various Songs that entry level Celestials or Soldiers would have. Other Songs, while nice, certainly aren't necessary. The core does a great job of giving an array that can work, everything else is icing. However, if you'd be willing to exchange a small Geas... Say a level/3 or so? ^_^' Josh (Well, I had to tie it back into the K.K./Lilim/Trade threads... Okay, I didn't have to, but I wanted to.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:42:50 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: IN> Soul Killing I'm kind of at a loss at how Celestials manage to get soul killed on earth...unless they voluntarily go Celestial, or get whapped with the Song of Banishment, how exactly do Celestials managed to get soul killed? It always makes more sense to stay in your vessel--you may loose it, you may go through trauma, and an angry prince, but at least you keep your soul...and I don't think the Song of Banishment is very common... ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2874 ********************************