in_nomine-digest Friday, December 20 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2909 In this digest: Re: IN> The Song of Songs Re: IN> And The Other Realms... Re: IN> Middle East Tethers... Re: IN> Question on Corporeal Song of Tongues RE: IN> Middle East Tethers... Re: IN> Angels of Revolution (The Precession Campaign) Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) RE: IN> The Song of Songs Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) RE: IN> Atheists and Soldiers IN> Is the list up? IN> Divine/Infernal Mecha Re: IN> Is the list up? IN> Loose Cannon? IN> Angels of Revolution (The Precession Campaign) Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) Re: IN> Angels of Revolution (The Precession Campaign) Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) IN> Mine own Song of Songs entry... IN> Moe... Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 05:29:04 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Song of Songs - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > ...it seems to add notes to the Symphony. Wow. This is my favorite so far. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 05:30:42 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> And The Other Realms... - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > Song of Songs (Ethereal) (a.k.a. "phase-jamming") > > A single Song of the performer's choosing (which the > performer must know) is rendered ineffective Isn't there a Song of Negation (or some such) in the LCant that does something like this? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 05:36:40 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Middle East Tethers... - --- Chris Bergstresser wrote: > I > was wondering what canonical tethers are near there, > particularly in > Palestine and Israel, although any in the area are worth > knowing. I'm > particularly interested in Creation, Wind, and Flower > tethers. If > anyone's got suggestions beyond canon, of course, they're > always welcome. If the Dome of the Rock isn't a Tether to Faith (or Factions!), the writers missed a trick big time. Mt. Ararat is another possibility if one assumes that Noah did indeed land there; it could go to Animals or Creation easily. Judgement is a surprise possibility; the place where the first rainbow was seen could surely be tied to God's mercy. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 05:37:54 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Question on Corporeal Song of Tongues - --- Chris Bergstresser wrote: > Question about the Corporeal Song of Tongues: how does > it apply to email > or web pages the celestial creates? I would treat it like any other written language for the purpose of that Song. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 05:40:21 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> Middle East Tethers... - --- Chris Bergstresser wrote: > Ok -- having done that, I've discovered (barring the > Temple Mount) the > only tether listed is Masada. As a tether to Dominic. ??? I seem to recall Masada being listed somewhere as a Tether to Stone (which is certainly a better fit than Judgement). Was that a typo in the LCast or what? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 05:43:40 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Angels of Revolution (The Precession Campaign) - --- Chris Bergstresser wrote: > What's everyone think? That's a terrible trick to play on a PC. IOW, I love it! =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 05:46:40 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) - --- BC Petery wrote: > Does it only work when given as a gift or can it be sold? I would rule that the diamond must be a gift; when was the last time you got enthralled with somebody who sold you something? Of course, it's not my Attunement to rule on... > Can this have a chain effect? Husband gives engagement > ring to wife, who > later gives it to daughter/granddaughter, each becoming > servant of the other in turn? That has a certain poetic touch that I like, but I wouldn't use it. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:20:44 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) At 02:20 PM 12/19/2002 +0100, Unni Solaas wrote: >On the other hand I like the idea. It's like a family curse / deep dark >secret kind of thing, focused on the rock. But then what the rock >/should/ do is make the new owner a servant to the demon who originally >handed it out. Heirloom with a little extra something.... >:) Hm. Works nicely with the title of the attunement, too. A Diamond Is Forever: Punon may infuse a diamond with Essence and give it as a gift to a human. A willing recipient becomes a servant to Punon whenever the gem is on her person, at a level equal to half the Essence infused into the diamond (and of an appropriate Class); this may be resisted immediately upon receiving the diamond with a Will roll. If the recipient ever gives the diamond as a gift to another human, the original recipient is freed of any servitude she may have been under through the diamond, and the new recipient is affected as if Punon were making the gift (and may make a Will roll as appropriate). Any celestial who is given the diamond as a gift does not become a servant, but may make a Perception roll to determine the diamond's purpose; success (or being told what the diamond is) allows the celestial to spend the same amount of Essence that Punon spent initially in order to permanently remove the diamond's enslaving properties. (This is *only* allowed if the celestial is given the diamond as a gift.) If the celestial instead gives the diamond to another human, the cycle continues. This is obviously a first draft, and as such the language isn't as tight as I'd like it to be and the mechanics could probably use a little work. Any suggestions are welcome. :D - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:28:37 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> The Song of Songs Perhaps the best candidate yet. > Angels can find the idea vaguely heretical -- God is the > Creator, not humans. Still, humans have already shown a tendency to affect > the Symphony in unexpected ways; and perhaps, if God wants humans to create > certain chords, this could explain why He doesn't want angels trying to > force humanity into their own image. Probably *some* angels are unsettled by it. Others, particularly Creationers, are probably tickled pink by it. As Dorothy L. Sayers remarked in "The Mind of the Maker," her book on the creative process, human an divine, "we are made in the image of a Maker." Which is also why J. R. R. Tolkien was so hot on the idea of "sub-creation." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 14:36:35 GMT From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) - ---------- Unni Solaas writes: > On the other hand I like the idea. It's like a family curse / deep > dark secret kind of thing, focused on the rock. But then what the rock > /should/ do is make the new owner a servant to the demon who > originally handed it out. Heirloom with a little extra something.... >:) Hmmm. Actually, that could be a plot hook for a recurring Lilim of Diamonds... I'm /liking/ this whole scheme. Now to actually generate a seed on it... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 08:26:27 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> Atheists and Soldiers - --- Chris Bergstresser wrote: http://www.inclusivescouting.net/bsa/cases/lambert/letters/mhiggins.html VERY interesting. While I don't agree with the good Father on every point, this is a much better defense of atheism than I'm accustomed to seeing. It also points out that atheism is not necessarily the absence of faith -- something that Khalid might not like but can't really deny as part of his Word. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:59:08 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: IN> Is the list up? Dead? Sideways? Have I been u-n-s-u-b-s-c-r-i-b-e-d? Mother of God, is this the end of Rico? - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:04:52 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: IN> Divine/Infernal Mecha Since In Nomine: Anime talks about divine/infernal mecha CONSTANTLY but never gives any rules for them, I thought I'd give some... A mecha is actually several artifacts rolled into one. The first artifact is the chasis, which can be corporeal, if it offers no skill bonuses. This costs one point for every point of protection it grants. It can also be an ethereal talisman if it offers bonuses to any skills (such as running, fighting, dodge, or any weapon skills.) This costs one point per point of protection, PLUS two points for every skill bonus it gives. The second artifact is the core, which is a large reliquary. It costs two points per point of essence it stores, like a normal reliquary. Mecha require one essence for every hour of operation. This reliquary can only be drawn from to power the mecha, or to use songs from the mecha (thus its reduced cost), but otherwise works like a normal reliquary. Divine cores regenerate one point of essence at sunrise, and infernal cored regenerate one point of essence at sunset, and anyone may add essence to the core as a normal reliquary. The third artifact is the control system, another celestial artifact, a relic of sorts. It costs three points for each level it has; every level adds one to the will roll required to operate the mecha. For every action the pilot wants to perform, he must make a will roll (than any other associated rolls.) The remaining artifacts are optional. A mecha may have a weapon (corporeal, if it's a mundane weapon, ethereal, if it's a talisman, or celestial if it's something like a fiery sword) or use any type of relic containing a Song as a built in system. For example, the mecha might have a relic containing the Celestial Song of Light as a "laser cannon," or the Ethereal Song of Form as a "Cloaking Device." Relics on a mecha CAN contain Numinous Corpus, but they are usually mechanical in appearance; NC Wings will sprout silver metallic wings, NC Claws will cause steel blades to sprout from the mecha's fingers, etc. EXAMPLE MECHA: VT 7064 "Hellhound" Chasis: Talisman, +2 protection, +3 to fighting, +2 to dodge +2 to move silently (18 points) Core: Contains a Maximum of 4 Essence (8 Points) Control System: Level 1 (3 Points) Relic Containing the Celestial Song of Attraction/3 (tracking device, 9 points) Relic containing Numinous Corpus: Fangs/2 (6 points) Limitation: Requires a five minute invocation before use (-2 points) Limitation: May only be used by servants of Vapula (+4 points) Limitation: Pilot looses control for 1-6 rounds if he fails a will roll (-3 points) Total Cost: 31 Points (Mecha are expensive!) On of Vapula's more recent creations, the "Hellhound" is a mecha eighteen feet long and ten feet high, shaped like a demonic looking dog (hence its codename.) Very popular among Vapula's Djinn, it's a stealthy (well, as stealthy as possible for a machine of its size) mecha that isn't too shabby in a fight either. Its natural bite attack has a power of +2 and an accuracy of -1, which stacks with the Numinous Corpus it has implanted in it. Vapula uses these monstrosities to track down and eliminate targets. However, it hasn't been perfected yet, and is prone to go haywire when the pilot looses control. Of course, Vapula couldn't care less. Asmodeus is VERY interested in requisitioning a few of these mecha, but Vapula is currently withholding them from any other Princes. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:21:08 -0800 (PST) From: Fade the Cat Subject: Re: IN> Is the list up? - --- "Chris Bergstresser" wrote: >Dead? Sideways? Have I been u-n-s-u-b-s-c-r-i-b-e-d? Mother of God, is >this the end of Rico? Just quiet, it looks like. I'm sitting around trying to figure out something clever to do with cats and IN, since cats do get that celestial force; I assume other people are busy. Or shopping. Lots of shopping, these days. *recalls that excellent IN setup about Christmas in July from Pyramid, or the list one about killing Santa in thousands of stadiums full of children at once, on live TV* Mm. Christmas. So...inspirational. - --Fade the Cat _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:32:58 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Loose Cannon? > I'm going to have to drag my > books around or something. Io-chan on the front, a pack full of IN on the back, and an iBook in a low slung holster by her side. Beth "Iron Canon" McCoy. Mobile and ready for action. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:32:59 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Angels of Revolution (The Precession Campaign) Important Distinction: A Rebellion is not necessarily a Revolution, nor is a Revolution necessarily a Rebellion. A Rebellion is commonly thought of as an open, armed, and organized resistance to a government, an act or a show of defiance toward an authority or established convention. A Revolution _can_ be the overthrow of one government and its replacement with another. It can also be a sudden or momentous, but not necessarily a violent, change in a situation. A Revolution means change, hopefully for the better. A Rebellion can be any opposition to authority, even if the rebellion is an attempt to retain the status quo. Make sure the character embraces change. Working Janus would seem to be a favorable indication. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:33:00 -0500 From: Michael Bruner Subject: Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) >[Diamond with essence -> gift -> enthrallment -> chain reaction etc..] > > > I doubt it. Attunements rarely work like that. (In fact, I'd say that if > > the recipient passed the stone on to someone else, the link would be > > permanently broken.) > > > >On the other hand I like the idea. It's like a family curse / deep dark >secret kind of thing, focused on the rock. But then what the rock >/should/ do is make the new owner a servant to the demon who originally >handed it out. Heirloom with a little extra something.... >:) > >I am of course way too lazy to check if something like this is described >in any of the books, or even possible in IN. I'll leave that to those >wonderful people on this list who Knows Stuff about IN mechanics and such. >;P One thought that occurs to me with this guy; is it possible to have Tethers to a non-Prince rank Word? Being a demonic Tether might explain certain legends about the Hope Diamond being cursed :). Or at the least a desire by this guy to boost his Word Forces might lead him to stage another spell of bad luck to bring the Hope Diamond into public attention (A bad incident at the Smithsonian should certainly gather some notice...), which could make a nice adventure. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 19:32:59 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) > De Beers Consolidated Mine Ltd. founding chairman was Cecil Rhodes. THE Cecil Rhodes? The single most *hated* man in African history? Last I heard, the people of Zimbabwe (Formerly Rhodesia! How's that for vanity!) were debating whether to open his tomb and deport his corpse. I'm serious! It was an argument between, "Get rid of the creep," and "Just forget about him." Might the Tomb of Cecil Rhodes be a Tether of Factions? > I'd say that if the recipient passed the stone on to > someone else, the link would be permanently broken. Good point. Giving things away is not very Greedy. Punon might look on giving away diamonds as a bribe or payment or investment. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Unni Solaas > On the other hand I like the idea. It's like a family curse / deep dark > secret kind of thing, focused on the rock. I'd rate that at an Artifact expense level. Just paying a point of Essence is too cheap. > I am of course way too lazy to check if something like this is described > in any of the books The "Discord Doll" in L.Reliq (p57) mentions paired Dolls that can be uesd much like Will Shackles (p81). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 20:55:06 -0500 From: "C. Mark Pearson" Subject: Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) > A Diamond Is Forever: Punon may infuse a diamond with Essence and give it > This is obviously a first draft, and as such the language isn't as tight as > I'd like it to be and the mechanics could probably use a little work. Any > suggestions are welcome. :D How about this? A Diamond Is Forever: Punon can invest Essence (up to his Celestial Forces) into a diamond and give it as a gift. A willing recipient must make a Will roll to resist becoming enthralled with the giver. While the gem is possessed by the recipient that individual is a Servant of the giver at a level equal to the amount of Essence invested. Should the initial recipient ever give the diamond to another willing recipient, they must make a Will role, otherwise the person will become a Servant in place of the giver. The attunement does not work on Celestials who can, in fact detect the attunement on the diamond with a successful Perception roll. I think this version does several things. First, it makes the name a little more appropriate, and helps explain why and how Punon has managed to keep control of the fictional DeBeers family over several generations. Second, it is, as someone mentioned, also a bit of a poetic touch. C. Mark Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 21:28:58 -0500 From: "C. Mark Pearson" Subject: Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) > Might the Tomb of Cecil Rhodes be a Tether of Factions? Possibly. On the other hand, might be one to Destiny instead. Unless I'm mistaken about the Rhodes scholarship being named after him. I imagine Cecil might make for an interesting write-up of a character for someone that knows more about him. > > I'd say that if the recipient passed the stone on to > > someone else, the link would be permanently broken. > > Good point. Giving things away is not very Greedy. Punon might look on > giving away diamonds as a bribe or payment or investment. I dunno. It's pretty selfish to pass on a 'curse' to your daughter or whatever just so you can get out from under it yourself. Further, keeping it in the family upon one's death can be perceived as greedy. Wouldn't want it getting auctioned off and going to /charity/ for Hell's sake. C. Mark Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 21:33:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angels of Revolution (The Precession Campaign) At 11:57 PM -0500 12/18/02, Chris Bergstresser wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Elizabeth McCoy >> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:17 PM >> >> > One of the angels in my campaign is planning on petitioning >> for the Word >> >of Revolutions; >> >> You know, considering some Freedom Rites, this angel may get some >> unwanted cheerleaders. (Actual aid would cost, of course.) > > Oh, it gets worse. The following is the setup for the campaign; I doubt >any of the players have found this list, but if you have, please avoid any >posts with my campaign title in them? And tell me? For all others, >comments and suggestions more than welcome. > Ahem. [If any of your players are reading -- go 'way! I have suggestions!] Reasonable enough, I'd say! > > What's everyone think? I think you have some plot seeds galore here. A: Cheerleaders. If word gets out, the "Ubersisters" (a non-canon and not even (I think?) in protocanon works term for Free Lilim who have amassed enough favors, attunements, Songs, Forces, etc., as to be Really Really Scary. (Many of them are probably like a cross between Mob Bosses and Brothel Madams -- i.e., they broker favors and hire troubleshooters to shoot your trouble, as sort of mini-Liliths. The ones who don't aim any higher up in _status_ can get pretty nasty in personal power if they're clever.)) may start dropping by, simply to applaud. So might young, idealistic "newborns." B: Renegades seeking to stir up trouble come looking for a. a diversion/patsy angel. b. assistance. c. actual aid in wreaking havoc upon someone before they ask for sanctuary and fethers. C: Any Lilim -- or other indentured "Servitor" of Freedom, for that matter -- finds out about this turn of events, I'm sure they could suggest that perhaps a Heart should go... missing? D: If you're ever at a loss as to what to do with a 666, you can have a short, strikingly attractive woman show up and offer a... Deal. (And the Kyrio needn't even Fall for it! Really, Shedim are so icky, and a dime a dozen.) Just some little ideas to brighten up your characters' lives a tad. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 21:36:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) At 2:20 PM +0100 12/19/02, Unni Solaas wrote: >On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, EDG wrote: > >[Diamond with essence -> gift -> enthrallment -> chain reaction etc..] > >> I doubt it. Attunements rarely work like that. [...] >> > >On the other hand I like the idea. It's like a family curse / deep dark >secret kind of thing, focused on the rock. [...] So make it an enchantment/relic -- i.e., the default attunement won't be the "cursed gem" if the link is broken, but if it's _enchanted_ so that it becomes a relic... - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 21:42:07 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Mine own Song of Songs entry... Well, the link at least: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/stories/SoS.htm Enjoy, hopefully. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 09/18/02 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 02:23:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> Moe... _The Matrix_ meets Piers Anthony's _For Love of Evil_, more or less...? Loved it. You're an odd one. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! GET SOME SLACK, CREATE SOME SLACK, OR DIE THESE ARE YOUR *ONLY* CHOICES -- St. Bubba ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 05:31:01 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> More IN Africa. (Demon of Diamonds) - --- Michael Bruner wrote: > One thought that occurs to me with this guy; is it > possible to have Tethers > to a non-Prince rank Word? Being a demonic Tether might > explain certain > legends about the Hope Diamond being cursed. Shoot, just make the thing a Living Artifact. An Imp or Gremlin trapped in a gemstone could cause all manner of bad luck. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2909 ********************************