in_nomine-digest Thursday, December 26 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2914 In this digest: IN> What Choir Are You? (The Game Show) IN> Farming out targets? IN> Q: about Song of Tongues IN> Nothing for Christmas? I don't think so... Re: INteresting assessments. (was RE: IN>What Choir Are You? et al/ IN>On a whim Re: IN> Farming out targets? Re: IN> punishment by an immediate fall Re: IN> punishment by an immediate fall Re: IN> Christmas IN fiction Re: IN> Farming out targets? Re: IN> punishment by an immediate fall Re: IN> What Choir Are You? (The Game Show) Re: IN> Q: about Song of Tongues IN> Christmas Gift! Re: IN> Very strange divination techniques (CP to Pyramid) IN> An interesting little colum Re: IN> Nothing for Christmas? I don't think so... Re: IN> Christmas IN fiction Re: IN> Farming out targets? Re: IN> Christmas IN fiction Re: IN> Mine own Song of Songs entry... IN> 10 more dead princes... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 09:21:17 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> What Choir Are You? (The Game Show) > What does it do to the political structure (and rhetoric) of Hell if it's > shown that Imps can fledge directly into angels? What does it do to Heaven if a stream of former Imps show up at the Pearly Gates as angels, but not knowing how to act like angels? Maybe _that's_ the punch line. And it would explain those Malakim/Stooges who keep following me around. > imagine the ratings of a real angel being slaughtered on > the show! The Running Man. Starring Arnold Hamandegger as the Redeemed and Richard Dawson as Nybbas. The Howling Mob portrayed by every extra from every Mad Max film ever made. Remember that this new angel doesn't have a heart, and is likely to never have been to the corporeal plane. No instant plane shifts. The poor bastard has to get to a tether, get past its Seneschal, get _up_ the tether, traverse the corporeal world in search of a Divine tether, and finally get into it. Not forgetting to pick up a Vessel somewhere. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 09:21:18 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Farming out targets? > if the angel has the sense to call in help for one of the targets Can a Servitor of Divine Fire have someone else deal with their target? It doesn't seem unreasonable. But would just turning someone over to the police be enough? Would it count as punishment or would that have to wait until judgement was passed? You'd be holding a point of dissonance until conviction. And you'd certainly need enough evidence to convict, but what if the perp walks due to a technicality? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 09:21:18 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Q: about Song of Tongues Can the Song of Tongues be used to transmit images or is it limited to text/audio? If it can be used for images what is the word to image rate? (1.pct = 1k.txt ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 09:21:18 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Nothing for Christmas? I don't think so... The annual Fruitcake Cutting Challenge. Open to anyone with a Flaming Sword. Nothing else can cut the stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 09:27:42 -0600 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: INteresting assessments. (was RE: IN>What Choir Are You? et al/ IN>On a whim > > And of course, there was myself, Ofanite (verified) Angel of > >Cognitive Dissonance, and, rather on par with the Archbeth's > >slanderous accusation, Calabite (Demon of Mac's, she speculates, > >no less. I just snort.) XD > >Nononono -- you're not the Demon of Macs. You're the Demon of >_Breaking Macs_. While Vapula might have sponsored you for the >Word, he wouldn't want you as a Servitor. Maybe you work for >Kronos instead. O;> > Hey, you suggested Macs, carté blanc; no backpeddling! This gives me the perfect opportunity to remain ObsIN while getting to point out the Mac as the infernal device that it is, in such an utterly Nybbasian cum Meschrach manner! (^_~) One button, no command line... >The Calabite entropic field you possess, due to your Word, is >uniquely tailored to _only_ affecting that kind of computer. If >it keeps working, Vapula might let you into his service -- or not, >since most other Calabim can't keep themselves from disassembling >things, so even a Word-bound would probably have the lifespan of >a redeemed imp in Asmodeus' office... > You know, the only thing that keeps me from being offended is the fact that the idea of the FIRST ever Calabite to be, how one would put it, "Damaged in a specifically reproduceable and still maintainable and utilizable manner without being overtly prone to overdisfunctionality," makes me want to write up the Demon of Macs, former Servitor of Secrets, IST Technology. And then I can laugh maniacally and inflict all of the Cog Diss that such a fictionalized conceptualization could bring, while knowing that the mental expansion and strengthening this would bring about would only serve to verify the Divine nature of my Word. Kamika-Z, still certain the ArchBeth is a Habbalite of Macs*... *with the Lilim atttunement, to boot. "You really Need a Mac..." >O;D > >-- >--Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor >http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:30:54 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Farming out targets? >> if the angel has the sense to call in help for one of the targets > >Can a Servitor of Divine Fire have someone else deal with their target? It >doesn't seem unreasonable. > >But would just turning someone over to the police be enough? Would it count >as punishment or would that have to wait until judgement was passed? You'd >be holding a point of dissonance until conviction. And you'd certainly need >enough evidence to convict, but what if the perp walks due to a >technicality? It's not necessarily as iffy as you might think. Firstly, as far as I know, the angel has to actually /focus/ to identify someone as Cruel and thus be dissonance-bound to punish them. In the example originally given, the angel was hunting the demon for /revenge/, not for cruelty - asking a fellow angel to go after the demon instead would definitely be fine there. Secondly, the angel doesn't /have/ to turn a human over to human authorities - there's asking fellow angels (/especially/ if they have Roles within the police/judiciary system), possibly even going to Judgement if the Gabrielite's on okay terms with the local Dominicans. If the angel does just turn the human over to humans while hunting the demon, though...huh. Tough one. I might say it depends on what /happens/ to the human while being held pre-conviction - if it's enough to make him repent, there's /definitely/ no problem for the angel. If it's not... ~S.D. Ryukage ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 12:37:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> punishment by an immediate fall At 1:06 PM -0800 12/24/02, rob scwalen wrote: >Would he be punished by an immediate fall. While dissonance and Discord can be inflicted by Superiors... Falling is a personal choice. (Obligatory plug for the Game Master's Guide here.) If you want an "insta-Fall" for a character, I suggest the option from the Game Master's Guide of "using your infernal opposite's resonance while you're still an angel" -- this inflicts nasty dissonance, and if you're in a bad situation, could become rather attractive. It's a very slippery slope, too. So, act like a Calabite "just this once because it's really desperate and I need to break something," and whaddya know.... - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 03:22:14 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> punishment by an immediate fall >While dissonance and Discord can be inflicted by Superiors... Falling > is a personal choice. > I agree that this *should* be the case, but I think there are canon examples of where it isn't: Servitors of Wind have to leave town every three days, so capturing one and keeping him prisoner for long enough would induce Falling. Also, I seem to recall Discords which require their victims to stay out of enclosed spaces or to keep moving at all times. Just because you've got Discord doesn't mean you're *willing* to Fall -- it could mean you had bad luck (Ofanim failing movement rolls, Cherubim losing an Attuned, Servitors of Gabriel having trouble catching up with/isolating a target for punishment). In short, there are ways by which an angel *might* Fall without either wanting to or being able to prevent it. Are there ways that a demon could Redeem under the same circumstances? Does the Habbalite self-induced Emptiness induce Redemption or just open up the chance for it? Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 16:39:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Christmas IN fiction At 12:06 AM -0800 12/25/02, Harukami wrote: [...] >What Do You Get a Kyriotate For Christmas? - by Harukami [...] Which is both a nifty little story _and_ of use in actual playing for GMs and players! O:> (I.e., what gift of ephemera would a PC like? Players, tell your GM! That would be something that a Superior or superior could grant when pleased with the PC, but not earth-shatteringly "here, have a useful relic/skill/Song/attunement/Distinction" pleased.) - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 16:49:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Farming out targets? At 9:21 AM -0500 12/25/02, BC Petery wrote: >Can a Servitor of Divine Fire have someone else deal with their target? GM call, this. Mind, if the Servitor is the one who instigated the "someone else," this seems plausible to me, too. I have a bit of fic which has a Kyrio of Fire possessing a bully's target, then using angelic speed and strength in the light-weight host to climb a tree. When the (goaded) bully follows, the greater weight causes a branch to break, and the bully winds up with a broken arm. Punishment, and no disturbance. (Yeah, the bully might've ended up with a broken neck -- and we wonder why Judgment goes "NNNG!" at Gabrielites sometimes?) >But would just turning someone over to the police be enough? Would it count >as punishment or would that have to wait until judgement was passed? This, too, is a GM call. O:> I'd suspect that it would depend on what happened to the target. If the target got out on bail, then it's unlikely to "count" for the Flame. If the target got roughed up when being taken into custody, it might count. >You'd be holding a point of dissonance until conviction. And you'd >certainly need enough evidence to convict, but what if the perp walks >due to a technicality? Dissssssssssonant. O:> - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 17:02:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> punishment by an immediate fall At 3:22 AM +0800 12/26/02, Janet Anderson wrote: >>While dissonance and Discord can be inflicted by Superiors... Falling >> is a personal choice. > > >I agree that this *should* be the case, but I think there are canon examples of >where it isn't: Servitors of Wind have to leave town every three days, so >capturing one and keeping him prisoner for long enough would induce Falling. Not quite -- even mechanically, it's not likely to happen. See, the mechanics have you rolling under your _previous_ dissonance level, whenever you gain a note. I.e., Windy gets caught. 4th day, 1 note dissonance. Make dissonance roll to avoid Outcasting. Must roll... 0 or above Next roll, 2 notes, roll 1 or above. Next roll, 3 notes, you have to roll at least a 2 on one of the dice. BUT! A 111 is always good for angels! So you're safe here. Then you take that third note of dissonance and convert to Discord. The only times you get screwed here is if you roll a 666, or the GM is mean and inflicts one of the Discords that count against your dissonance total. (E.g., Aura for Lilim, and the like.) But if the GM doesn't nail you with one of those, you're quite safe from Falling. A puddle of Discord, mind, but an angelic one! And if you get that Divine Intervention first, you can suggest to the GM that you immediately ascend to your Heart. O;> (Or that one of your friends happens to look over and see your Heart singing strangely, or even that a Judgment triad shows up...) Of course, this requires that the angel be willing to take Discord -- a warp that can't be "brushed under the rug," and thus admit that he's not going to be able to get out of this and work the dissonance off in a Tether and never mention it. If the angel has too much pride or overconfidence, then he may risk it -- but that is his _choice_, and his pride, and if he Falls... He chose it. >In short, there are ways by which an angel *might* Fall without either wanting >to or being able to prevent it. They're rare. >Are there ways that a demon could Redeem under the same circumstances? Does the >Habbalite self-induced Emptiness induce Redemption or just open up the chance >for it? The latter. It takes a Divine Intervention, too. They realize their delusion, is all. For many, this is enough -- they want to be a REAL angel, want to serve God as they believed they were doing. For others... Either they slip back into delusion, frantically, or they never let on their realization and continue as they were. (Letting on that you know you're a damned demon Habbalite, around other Habbalah, tends to be painful.) - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 17:21:37 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> What Choir Are You? (The Game Show) At 9:21 AM -0500 12/25/02, BC Petery wrote: >The poor bastard has to [...] search of a Divine tether, and >finally get into it. Not forgetting to pick up a Vessel somewhere. Unless it's a Kyriotate, in which case it doesn't need the vessel. O:> - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 17:22:29 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Q: about Song of Tongues At 9:21 AM -0500 12/25/02, BC Petery wrote: >Can the Song of Tongues be used to transmit images or is it limited to >text/audio? Text/audio. It's the Song of Tongues, not the Song of Full Immersion Multimedia. O:> - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 17:26:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Christmas Gift! (A traditional Christmas Day greeting amongst my family -- the first one to say it, when two relatives speak, wins. I nailed my grandmother, but my mom nailed me. Darnit.) Some Superiors -- more corporeal-savvy than others -- feel that it's appropriate to celebrate Christmas with a "little something." Of course, one can always get a bulk-order of greeting cards and send those, but that doesn't really have that "I'm thinking of you, my Servitor" cachet to it. So, being busy, they appoint someone to do it for them. Pity the poor Division of Holiday Gifts, who have to figure out who deserves what for each gift-giving holiday (mostly Christmas, but there are others), and arranges that they get it (whatever it is, and whoever they are) with their Superior's name on the "From" tag. Not to mention delivering it all in one night. You have read that little discussion about why Santa can't exist because he would have burned up from the acceleration forces long ago, right? Good. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 19:48:42 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Very strange divination techniques (CP to Pyramid) Moe, I am amazed that you missed... Scapulomancy The "throwing of the bones" requires a handful of bones from a small animal (usually a rodent) and a flat surface to throw them on. This practice is frowned upon almost as much as Haruspication is, but modern Diviners have learned to work around this by using symbolic rather than literal bones. Very few people have been burned at the stake for rolling dice. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 19:58:19 -0800 (PST) From: Mandy Bowyer Subject: IN> An interesting little colum Hey all, I found this on the Straight Dope and thought it might be of interest to some people. I'm sorry, I don't know how to make it clickable so you'll have to type it in http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mangels.html Merry Christmas everyone. Mandy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:22:28 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Nothing for Christmas? I don't think so... - --- Rolland Therrien wrote: > I can't believe no-one has done anything appropriatly > themed for the Holidays. I had something in mind, but it turned into an after Christmas thing due to scheduling conflicts. I rather like your idea, though. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:28:21 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Christmas IN fiction You weren't kidding about sappy -- but it works. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:39:38 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Farming out targets? > >But would just turning someone over to the police be > enough? Would it count > >as punishment or would that have to wait until judgement > was passed? Depends on where it happens. In the Western world, simply turning the human over to mortal law enforcement probably doesn't count as punishment unless the angel takes pains to insure a conviction (providing -- or manufacturing - -- evidence, for example). In a place where people are punished just for being accused of crimes, a Gabrielite can punish his targets quite effectively just by pointing fingers. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Bones! You've got to save Ensign Pillsburry!."

"There's nothing I can do -- he's _bread_, Jim." __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:20:49 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Christmas IN fiction I like it. If by "sappy," you mean it has a) people who love each other and b) a happy ending, then I say Send Us More Of the Same, at Christmas or any other time. Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 05:32:44 -0600 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Mine own Song of Songs entry... >Well, the link at least: > >http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/stories/SoS.htm > >Enjoy, hopefully. Definitely enjoyed the idea. Most certainly was impressed by the writing. The results, however, I saw coming a mile away. XD Kamika-Z ...but was the pill red, is what I'm wondering... _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:29:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: IN> 10 more dead princes... I actually made it to my local gaming store and was flipping though some of the source books when I saw the phrase there are more dead princes than live ones. (I don't remember which book it was, GPG(?)) I believe there are 8 dead princes Beelzebub,Gebbeleth,Genubath,Legion,Makatiel,Mariel, Meserach, & Vephar and 17 live princes Alaemon,Andre,Asmodeus,Baal, Beleth, Belial, Furfur, Fleurity,Haagenti, Kobal, Kronos, Lilith, Magog, Malphas, Mammon, Nybbas, Saminga,Valefor and Vapula So any idea on the 10 (at least)? There are some doubled up words, corruption is two dead, secrets is one dead and one alive. And Fluerity is not the first holder of the word of Drugs (though I can't find anything to tell if he is the first DP of Drugs...) Randy - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2914 ********************************