in_nomine-digest Wednesday, January 8 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2925 In this digest: Re: IN> Don't ask. IN> Child of two superiors Re: IN> Child of two superiors Re: IN> Child of two superiors Re: IN> Child of two superiors Re: IN> Don't ask. IN> The List Re: IN> The List IN> INverse update Re:Re: IN> The List IN> Calabite mechanics question. Re: IN> Calabite mechanics question. Re: IN> [3 Souls] The Thing with Three Souls IN> EPG Cover Art Re: IN> EPG Cover Art RE: IN> [3 Souls] The Thing with Three Souls IN> is there a canon demon of Alcoholism Re: IN> The List Re: IN> Child of two superiors IN> wouldn't finish off... Re: IN> is there a canon demon of Alcoholism Re: IN> wouldn't finish off... Re: IN> The List Re: IN> Wouldn't finish off... Re: IN> EPG Cover Art Re: IN> A test. IN> [3 Souls] Character creation Re: IN> EPG Cover Art Re: IN> wouldn't finish off... Re: IN> wouldn't finish off... Re: IN> Ethereal Language IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:19:15 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Don't ask. From: "Maurice Lane" > > Corporeal > Yes, exactly what you think happens, happens: the > contents of the target's cranium and large intestine > switch places. It also is precisely as disgusting to > witness as one might imagine, right down to the sound > effects. Knocks 'em ass over elbows, huh? ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 00:32:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: IN> Child of two superiors If two superiors of the same choir create an offspring does that offspring have to be of that choir? I ask becuase I was looking at the writeup for Liwet, Angel of Mathematics and she is written so the reader presumes that Liwet is made from Jean & Raphael's forces, but Liwet is a Seraph while Jean and Raphael are Elohites... Randy - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:45:28 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Child of two superiors - --- Randy Finder wrote: > If two superiors of the same choir create an > offspring does that offspring > have to be of that choir? As far as I know, no (at least, I hope so, all things considered). After all, Superiors can create angels of all Choirs, not just theirs, so tweaking the desired type out of two sets of personal Forces shouldn't be all that hard. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 09/18/02 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:51:29 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Child of two superiors From: "Randy Finder" > > If two superiors of the same choir create an offspring does that offspring > have to be of that choir? I would say not, because a Superior can personally create a celestial of any choir or band (as appropriate to whether we're talking about archangels or demon princes, of course.) The only practical difference between that, and two superiors creating a new angel/demon, is that there are two superiors involved. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:52:13 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Child of two superiors - --- Randy Finder wrote: > If two superiors of the same choir create an offspring > does that offspring have to be of that choir? According to the APG section on Celestial reproduction, yes -- but Superiors may not be bound by that. They can create Celestials of any Choir or Band on their own sides, so maybe they can arrange for their offspring to be of a specific Ensemble. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 05:54:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Don't ask. Okaaaaaay... I see that you've been drawing inspiration from RL again, Moe. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:11:17 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> The List > "A roll of 666 means the angel is permanently barred from the Library." I wouldn't even bother with the roll. I'd make the player justify their need to access the stacks. Which raises the question of, "Why do I need to roll in the first place?" Shouldn't the Library be accessible to all? I could understand if it was borrowing privlages, a 666 might represent outstanding Library fines. I keep forgetting that a Free Public Library, where anyone could walk in off the street, sit down and start reading, is a relatively recent invention. Until the Dewey Decimal system organized books by subject and author a visitor would _need_ to consult a librarian to find a book. Perhaps that is what the roll means, the librarians don't want to deal with you any more. > The files for Fate, the game and Lucifer's private library are almost > certainly going to be written in *helltongue*. And located in the special collection, only accessible by Yves. He takes you in himself or you ain't goin'. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 11:04:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: Re: IN> The List On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, BC Petery wrote: > > The files for Fate, the game and Lucifer's private library are almost > > certainly going to be written in *helltongue*. > > And located in the special collection, only accessible by Yves. He takes you > in himself or you ain't goin'. It would have to be Yves only, because if it goes beyond it, it could warp the entire war considerably. Consider if Dominic could walk in at any time and read the files for the Game, while it might end co-operation between Dominic and Asmodeus, it might be advantageous. Novalis would love a look as well. Novalis tells one of her Cherubs that according to the records of the Game that Demon Crezil who has devloped Merciful/4 and Selfless/2 and managed to break his heart was last seen in Berlin... Or even more fun, let Lithroi in there... Yves may or may not read Kronos's files, your call. :) Randolph Finder > > - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:46:20 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: IN> INverse update Hi all, Just a tiny lil' notice to say that some artwork by Sirea has been added to the INverse site: http://www.pvv.org/~solas/inverse/art.html Cheerio, Unni - the INverse Webmom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:45:23 GMT From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re:Re: IN> The List Randy Finder writes: > Yves may or may not read Kronos's files, your call. :) I have a sudden image of someone suggesting it to Yves, and him looking shocked. "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:05:38 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: IN> Calabite mechanics question. To resist a Calabite's resonance, do you just need to make your Strength roll, or do you need to beat the Calabite's check digit? Or do you need to beat their modified check digit of Corporeal Forces + roll? And when a Calabite (or any celestial) uses his resonance, is that a free action, letting him also move, drive, attack, or whatever? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:23:36 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Calabite mechanics question. At 10:05 AM 1/8/2003 -0700, Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: >To resist a Calabite's resonance, do you just need to make your Strength >roll, or do you need to beat the Calabite's check digit? Or do you need to >beat their modified check digit of Corporeal Forces + roll? No errata have been submitted for this section in the core rules, so unless the IPG (which I do not have handy) overrules this, the victim needs only make a successful Strength roll. >And when a Calabite (or any celestial) uses his resonance, is that a free >action, >letting him also move, drive, attack, or whatever? Using any supernatural ability is an action. No character gets more than one action per round unless otherwise specified. Movement, however, is covered separately. Page 68 in the core rulebook goes into more detail on this. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:42:13 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> [3 Souls] The Thing with Three Souls "Wajenberg, Earl" wrote: > > What form of Doomsday are you using? Have already mapped it out? I haven't decided yet. First, this is a game that depends very heavily on what PCs the players create. In particular, part of the character creation rules is for each PC to have three important NPCs (someone they love, hate, and see as an authority figure), and basically the entire plot of the game will be built from those NPCs. Second, I've only started writing up the game setting, and doomsday is the *last* thing I need to plan out. :) That said, the author who will be the patron saint of the game is Phillip K. Dick. So I'm going to try and borrow as many Dickian themes as I can for this game. In most of his books, the threat of doom came from an institutional failure, and the hope for renewal came from personal empathy and charity. So it's pretty much a certainty that the threat of the apocalypse will come from a failure of the institutions of human and celestial society, and that the hope in it comes from individuals (the PCs) showing empathy. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:44:51 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> EPG Cover Art Hi folks, Just wanted to let everybody know that the Ethereal Player's Guide cover art is online. Check out http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/ethereal/img/cover_lg.jpg for the full image. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:57:27 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> EPG Cover Art From: "EDG" > > Just wanted to let everybody know that the Ethereal Player's Guide cover > art is online. Oooooh, pretty. Can't wait to get hold of this one. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:03:18 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> [3 Souls] The Thing with Three Souls I wrote to Neel: > What form of Doomsday are you using? Have already mapped it out? And he answered: > I haven't decided yet. In that case, I'll direct your attention to "And I Feel Fine" at: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/new/GMs/Adventures/aiffintro.html which describes an Armageddon campaign. I wrote it during your absence from the list. I don't think you'll want to use it wholesale, first because you'll want to do your own creating, and second because the game you describe doesn't sound like its compatible with this one. But you did mention life after the War is no longer secret, so you might find some useful ideas in Part 10: Open War, and the later parts. Please keep us updated on your campaign, so far as GM security permits. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:48:26 -0800 (PST) From: rob scwalen Subject: IN> is there a canon demon of Alcoholism Is there a demon of alcoholism in In Nomine canon and if so is it possible for me to get his stats and back ground __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:41:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The List At 9:01 PM -0500 1/7/03, Brian Rogers wrote: >> At 10:49 PM -0500 1/6/03, Brian Rogers wrote: >> >> >Let's take a look at the book Revelations III: Heaven and Hell: pg 69, under >> >borrowing privileges. >> >> Is that in the Yves section or the Heaven section?[...] >It's in the Heaven section. Ah, good. Then I can look at it again at some point in the future and decide if I want to keep it or not. O:> - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:46:13 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Child of two superiors At 12:32 AM -0400 1/8/03, Randy Finder wrote: >If two superiors of the same choir create an offspring does that offspring >have to be of that choir? No -- they're Superiors, and can mold the Forces into whatever configuration they desire. The Forces will tend to _want_ to be the same Choir, but won't _have_ to be. O:> - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:58:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: IN> wouldn't finish off... For which Pairings of Archangels and Demon Prince(s/sses) would the Archangel *not* soul kill the Demon Prince if they had the chance... (Assume in the Far marches, DP has just faught a *REALLY NASTY ETHEREAL* and won't attack.) Would Novalis soul kill anyone? If yes, anyone other than Saminga? Would Dominic kill Asmodeus? Would Jordi kill Asmodeus? (talk about two superiors in different realms) Would Marc kill Lilith? Would David break his dissonance conditions to finish off a DP? What if they faught each other in the Rebellion? The other end of the scale has *got* to be Gabriel and Belial.... Any ideas for DP who wouldn't finish off an AA? Randy - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:59:08 -0800 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> is there a canon demon of Alcoholism >>Is there a demon of alcoholism in In Nomine canon Doesn't seem like it. Write him up and tell us about him. -:-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:11:18 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> wouldn't finish off... - --- Randy Finder wrote: > Would Novalis soul kill anyone? If yes, anyone other than > Saminga? Not if there was even a slight chance for Redemption. > Would David break his dissonance conditions to finish off > a DP? As a Cherub, maybe. As a Malakite, probably not. > Any ideas for DP who wouldn't finish off an AA? Lilith. She would sense the AA's Need to go on living and offer to take a Geas instead. The question is, which AA's would accept? };> =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:24:16 -0500 From: Michael Nutt Subject: Re: IN> The List > Yves may or may not read Kronos's files, your call. :) Kronos might encode the files, though, or he might have multiple versions of the files, each somewhat different. Which one is correct? Only the demons that he tells the secret to will know for sure, so much critical information will get transmitted verbally. This might also explain why the Archives of Kronos seem to rearrange themselves from time to time. The fact that Heaven can potentially see anything that Hell has ever written down should go a long way toward inspiring paranoia and inefficiency in any demonic organization. Don't hesitate to use that as a "deus ex machina" if needed sometime, or even to explain an appropriate Intervention. Angels shouldn't *rely* on reading demonic files and records, but it can sure help out sometimes. - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:00:56 -0500 (EST) From: jamoge@wm.edu Subject: Re: IN> Wouldn't finish off... For one thing, are you talking about straight canon light grey, a low contrast, Darker game (where the answer is mostly like to all of the above), or a Light game, high contrast. The latter would probably have the Demon Princes(s) dragged kicking and screaming, and with tentacles waving for the Shedim, to the light of Heaven, where they'd look at everything they're missing out on and would tearfully repent and Redeem. As for canonish settings, I would say that Saminga wouldn't be on Novalis' *kill if presented with the opportunity* list. Rather, she'd probably hope that showing him mercy would get his thoughts going down a different path. Dominic... probably wouldn't kill Asmodeus. Too useful. Might bring along one of his Brights and staple a few Geas/6 to Asmodeus' suddenly vulnerable soul. Jordi... tough call. On the one hand, true. Jordi has little contact with Asmodeus, but hey, a Demon Prince is a Demon Prince, especially one so close to the workings of Hell. Taking out Asmodeus might cause a lot of the corrupt human establishments on Earth to fall apart, allowing for Heaven, and consequently Animals, to gain a major coup. I don't think Marc would kill Lilith. Somehow, I can see them both having come upon one another on several occasions where each had an upper hand, and neither took advantage of the situation. Marc and Lilith have a grudging respect for one another, despite their place in the War, and I think they both have way too much weighing on one another to make a violent move. Marc might even be able to use a version of the Novalian gambit mentioned above to show Lilith that not everything has a price, some things just come Free. I think this was actually covered in the Dark Victory netbook. Just a brief statement about how David went through Stygia for Malphas before the Discord destroyed him. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 19:05:04 -0600 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> EPG Cover Art At 01:44 PM 01/08/03 -0500, EDG wrote: >Just wanted to let everybody know that the Ethereal Player's Guide >cover art is online. Check out >http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/ethereal/img/cover_lg.jpg for the >full image. That's a Phil Reed special -- the first cover he's done for us since, IIRC, GURPS In Nomine. - -- Life is an aimless drive that you take alone | Might as well enjoy the ride -- take the long way home. | - -- The Bloodhound Gang, "Take The Long Way Home" | hackard@io.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:36:43 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> A test. > Skill: Pinging (Perception; no Default (see description)) Also known as Perception + Awareness in my hybrid In Nomine - White Wolf campaign, "Victims of Our Own Ontology". The conversion is still ongoing, even after 5 years of playtest. - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:06:32 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> [3 Souls] Character creation Character Creation - ------------------ * Kinds of PCs This is a pretty open game, in terms of the PCs that I'm willing to take on board. You can play an angel or a demon, a Renegade or an Outcast, or even humans and ethereals. * Mechanics As in the base In Nomine rules, you receive 9 Forces and 36 character points to build your PC. Also, you receive an additional 18 character points that must be spent on supernatural abilities, like extra Vessels, Songs, attunements, and artifacts. You can also start the game with a Distinction; this costs 5 cp and gets you the Knight/Vassal distinction. In addition to the power it gives you, it also gives you some rank within your archangel or demon prince's organization. If you like, you can also start the game with a Word. If you choose to go this route, you will need to sink your 18 cps into the Word, and in exchange you receive a specialized attunement, three Rites, and some other stuff that will be determined when I figure out the Word mechanics. If you want to play a human, then you start with 9 Forces, just like the celestials. You don't get the 18 points of free supernatural ability, but on the other hand you can break stuff without causing a disturbance in the Symphony. This is important, since disturbance is harmful enough in this game to force angels and demons to collaborate to keep the noise down. * Connections In addition to the mechanics, you also need to come up with three NPCs, someone your PC loves and trusts, someone your PC hates, and someone your PCs sees as an authority figure. 1. Someone your PC loves. As the saying goes, a friend helps you move and a real friend helps you move the body. You are someone's real friend. This is someone that your PC cares enough about to take risks for even if they repeatedly and willfully cruising for a Darwin Award. 2. Someone your PC hates. I also want you to come up with an enemy or rival for your PC. This is someone that your PC will be willing to take some serious risks to hose. 3. An authority figure. For most characters, this will be your PC's archangel or demon prince. You don't need to have a *great* working relationship with them, but you do need to feel some obligation to do what they say (even if only to save your own skin). Renegade angels and demons can pick someone else as their authority figure of choice. A mentor who helped you figure out how to break your Heart, or maybe an ethereal pantheon you hire out to, or even a demon prince or archangel that you do under-the-table stuff for. The game's backstory is going to pretty much be defined by these NPCs. Once you do character creation, I will sit down, work out the connections, schemes, dark secrets, and connections between these NPCs, to provide your characters with strong reasons to get out there and do stuff. As an experiment, I'm not going to require that the PCs necessarily work together as a party. Instead, they are all interconnected via their NPCs, so that whatever a PC does will affect the others. If this doesn't work out, then we can go back to a conventional party structure. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:40:29 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> EPG Cover Art At 7:05 PM -0600 1/8/03, Andrew Hackard wrote: >At 01:44 PM 01/08/03 -0500, EDG wrote: >> http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/ethereal/img/cover_lg.jpg > >That's a Phil Reed special -- the first cover he's done for us since, IIRC, >GURPS In Nomine. Why am I thinking of the Game Master's Guide as between GIN and EPG? - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:47:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> wouldn't finish off... At 3:58 PM -0400 1/8/03, Randy Finder wrote: >For which Pairings of Archangels and Demon Prince(s/sses) would the >Archangel *not* soul kill the Demon Prince if they had the chance... >(Assume in the Far marches, DP has just faught a *REALLY NASTY ETHEREAL* >and won't attack.) > >Would Novalis soul kill anyone? If yes, anyone other than Saminga? If she thought it necessary, I suspect so. Saminga, Belial, Baal, and Kronos, would be in her top four list, with Vapula right there in place number five, I suspect. Beleth'd be up there as well, though Novalis might hold off for Blandine's sake. Or... not. >Would Dominic kill Asmodeus? Yes. With cold, inexorable determination. And a prayer afterwards. (Dominic, I think, would abide by some of the Evil Overlord Rules -- "On second thought, I'd just shoot him.") >Would Jordi kill Asmodeus? (talk about two superiors in different realms) Definitely. >Would Marc kill Lilith? Only if he wants to be dissonant. Mercurian. Human. No hittee. >Would David break his dissonance conditions to finish off a DP? What if >they fought each other in the Rebellion? Hmmmmm......... I suspect David would know ways to make sure that the Prince either started something -- or Would Not Be Leaving That Spot. Oh, and he'd drop a CelTongues note to Michael... O:> >The other end of the scale has *got* to be Gabriel and Belial.... Eli/Andre, perhaps. I suspect that by this time, Eli has burned through his grief at what Andre became and now just wants to put him out of his misery like a rabid dog. >Any ideas for DP who wouldn't finish off an AA? Andre can think of better things to do... Lilith would rather someone owed her a favor. Vapula can think of better things to do... Nybbas can think of better people to do something -- he's going to run the camera. Azzie... might not want to take out Dominic? He loathes rules-upsets, after all, and replacing Dominic would be a pain. Valefor would probably rather rob the AA blind somehow and leave it alive to feel stolen from. Kobal would only do it if it were funny -- but he'd find a way for it to be funny, probably... - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:15:19 -0800 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> wouldn't finish off... Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > At 3:58 PM -0400 1/8/03, Randy Finder wrote: > >For which Pairings of Archangels and Demon Prince(s/sses) would the > >Archangel *not* soul kill the Demon Prince if they had the chance... > >(Assume in the Far marches, DP has just faught a *REALLY NASTY ETHEREAL* > >and won't attack.) > > > >Would Novalis soul kill anyone? If yes, anyone other than Saminga? > > If she thought it necessary, I suspect so. Saminga, Belial, Baal, and > Kronos, would be in her top four list, with Vapula right there in place > number five, I suspect. Not Malphas? I'd be inclined to put him in place #2, if not #1. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 11:34:16 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereal Language > - --- Randy Finder wrote: >> Book is in an Ethereal language (do such things exist)? > > Probably not. Ethereals are created by dreams (mostly > those of humans), so they likely speak the languages of the > populations that create them. Which includes a number of dead or moribund languages. So, mortals studying Classics could benefit from a dream or three from the Olympian pantheon; assume that the Olympians help students who are sympathetic to them, and ignore those who are not. Their favoured students do better, and eventually end up as faculty members - creating Classics departments which are heavily biased towards these gods; possibly even 'recreating' the gods' Rites "to help the students understand what it was like back then". Which would really tick Laurence off. Knowing that any Christian who wants to read the NT in the original will be learning from a closet pagan should really get up his nose. Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 05:34:02 GMT From: phillip@mbaysav.org Subject: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) > Lilith would rather someone owed her a favor. You see, I wonder about this. Not whether or not she would, but if it works that way. Can you actually get a geas from not killing someone? It's one thing to save their life; if they're hanging from a cliff and you pull them up, yeah you've done something. On the other hand if you see some guy lying on the couch and decide not to kill him, I don't know about getting a geas from it. In the same fashion, you come accross a stricken angel and decide to leave him alone. I don't think that counts for anything. You didn't do him any favors. On the other hand, if you Sang up some healing for him, that's another matter entirely. I guess I'm wondering whether or not inactivity counts for Geasa or not. After all, if that were the case than anytime a lilim read someone and got a CD of 6 they'd get 'not die'. - ----- "The path of a true Magical Girl is fraught with peril." Keroberos, Card Captor Saotome ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2925 ********************************