in_nomine-digest Friday, January 10 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2927 In this digest: Re: IN> Wouldn't finish off... IN> For people going to Arisia... IN> Lilim and killing Re: IN> wouldn't finish off... Re: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) Re: IN> EPG Cover Art Re: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) Re: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) Re: IN> Hello and where's the Archive of old mail? Re: IN> Healing, Entropy, Aging, etc. IN> Why Demons fear the Malakim Re: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) Re: IN> Why Demons fear the Malakim RE: IN> EPG Cover Art Re: IN> Why Demons fear the Malakim IN> demon of alcoholism Re:IN> demon of alcoholism Re: IN> demon of alcoholism IN> Demon of Alcoholism: servitor of Haagenti or Fleurity Re: IN> demon of alcoholism Re: IN> demon of alcoholism Re: IN> demon of alcoholism IN> Angel of Medicine (was demon of alcoholism) Re: IN> demon of alcoholism RE: IN> Angel of Medicine (was demon of alcoholism) Re: IN> Angel of Medicine (was demon of alcoholism) Re: IN> wouldn't finish off... IN> Time Travel? (Re: EPG Cover Art) Re: IN> Lilith and Mercurians Re: IN> Lilith and Mercurians ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 14:26:13 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Wouldn't finish off... - --- Matthew Gerber wrote: > Asmodeus isn't just a representative of civilization. > Asmodeus is a > representative of *everything Jordi hates most about > civilization.* Whoa. Daily Essence to you, Matt. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:40:18 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: IN> For people going to Arisia... Is anybody interested in splitting the cost of a hotel room? If so, please email me offlist. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 18:46:49 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Lilim and killing > That brings up a point I've been meaning to ask: does a Geas-hook get > set if the Needing person doesn't even know you're actually doing him a > favor? I'd say no, and the target must be made aware that there is an expected quid pro quo. But YMMV. You _can_ place someone in jeopardy and then save their life. It is Canon that the Lilim of Cruelty (DP Magog) can plant a hook if they detect the Need, "Stop torturing me." (Rev.5 p59. Doesn't say how big a Hook you get.) > I guess I'm wondering whether or not inactivity counts for Geasa or not. REMEMBER!!! A Need is valued at how difficult it would be for the *target* to fulfill the Need. If a Lilim can satisfy the target's Need by just sitting on her little green ass and doing nothing, it counts as fulfilling the Need. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:02:14 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> wouldn't finish off... > > Would Novalis soul kill anyone? If yes, anyone other than Saminga? Probably not; she would always try kindness first. However, were she to completely loose it on anyone, Saminga would or Malphas would be the most likely, > Would Dominic kill Asmodeus? They have a fairly good working relationship, and I think part of Dominic realizes that without someone to keep the demons in line, they'd be harder to contain. > Would Jordi kill Asmodeus? (talk about two superiors in different realms) I think inly of Asmodues directly threatened Jordi in someway; they really don't cross each other's paths. > Would Marc kill Lilith? No; first off, Marc is a Mercurian, and would always try negotiating first, and they have come to respect each other over the ages, Lilith becoming more honorable and Marc becoming more shrewd. > Would David break his dissonance conditions to finish off a DP? What ifthey faught each other in the Rebellion? There are two interpretations to this; one, the Demons started the War, and David would be reacting to a longterm hostility; or two, no. Stone does not strike, but it will hold up under pressure. > > The other end of the scale has *got* to be Gabriel and Belial.... > > Any ideas for DP who wouldn't finish off an AA? > Baal wouldn't kill Michael. They have a nice rivalry going on; they're waiting until Armageddon to kill each other. Andrealphus might not kill Eli; despite the fact that they hate each other, they're both fairly opposed to violence, and there is a method to their madness. Kobal wouldn't kill Eli either, and I don't think Nybbas would either; Eli, in his own way, is integral to all their words. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 18:41:31 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) At 5:34 AM +0000 1/9/03, phillip@mbaysav.org wrote: > > Lilith would rather someone owed her a favor. > >(snip) >I guess I'm wondering whether or not inactivity counts for Geasa or >not. After >all, if that were the case than anytime a lilim read someone and got a CD of 6 >they'd get 'not die'. Perhaps she will be getting a Geasa if (and only if) the inactivity is in some way a difficult action; Not killing someone when it is, in some way, something she would normally do, or is being asked to do. Because, otherwise, Lillim will simply walk down the street, reading the Need to Not Die in peoples eyes, then not kill them, and... Hey! Presto! She has a lot of hooks. Kind of pointless. Of course, if she decides not to kill someone when she has him helpless, and is ready to administer that killing blow... well, that is (maybe) another issue. Of course, this leads me to wonder... if the Lilim was on top of a building, with a Sniper rifle and a high power Scope... could she get a hook of not killing people, by not pulling the trigger? If there were an actual, known threat of a Sniper in the region (a la recent headlines) would that make a difference? If she really were the sniper, would that? -Daiv, Tech Writer in Service to Coffee, searching for a superior. - -- wireless network 802.11 transparent bamboo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:53:43 -0400 From: pbarkow@hfx.eastlink.ca Subject: Re: IN> EPG Cover Art On 9 Jan 2003 at 14:45, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 3:52 AM -0600 1/9/03, Andrew Hackard wrote: > >At 11:40 PM 01/08/03 -0500, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >>Why am I thinking of the Game Master's Guide as between GIN and EPG? > > > >Crack? ;-) > > > >The GMG was published before I started working at SJ Games; GIN was > >after. > > Hm. Maybe I've hopped timelines again... *looks at his copies of GURPS In Nomine and GURPS Time Travel* Anyone done rules for time travel in In Nomine? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:02:30 -0600 From: MasonK Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) > > Of course, this leads me to wonder... if the Lilim was on top >of a building, with a Sniper rifle and a high power Scope... could >she get a hook of not killing people, by not pulling the trigger? If >there were an actual, known threat of a Sniper in the region (a la >recent headlines) would that make a difference? If she really were >the sniper, would that? Kinda hard to look someone in the eye to read a Need, even through a high powered scope, if you're up a tower. > -Daiv, Tech Writer in Service to Coffee, searching for a superior. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:02:25 -0500 From: Michael Nutt Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) > Of course, this leads me to wonder... if the Lilim was > on top of a building, with a Sniper rifle and a high power > Scope... could she get a hook of not killing people, by > not pulling the trigger? If I were the GM, I'd give a Geas-hook relative to the difficulty the person would have doing the task himself. Given that all he'd have to do would be step to the side, or duck, I'd also rule it to be such an inconsequential hook that it's unusable. I'd keep rolling though, and if an unfavorable Intervention turned up, then that munchkin Lilim just stumbled into a training exercise for the Order of the Eternal Sword. Oops. :) - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:14:19 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Hello and where's the Archive of old mail? > And while I can't account for weeping and wailing, I *can* testify that EDG lives so far out in BFE that it does, in fact, qualify as "Outer Darkness". Ah, Matthew.... the goth disciple. - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 22:57:55 -0500 From: "Brian Rogers" Subject: Re: IN> Healing, Entropy, Aging, etc. The Song of Entropy can remove all signs of decay and age. In my opinion, you can't make someone into a child, or make a child grow up, because these are part of the growth process, not the decay and ageing process. I once put forth the theory that you could use Entropy to regress someone to infant level, or even earlier, and they would not only remain adult, but would remain there for about thirty years, until the normal aging process caught up with them. The Ofanite of Creation Attunement, in my opinion, operates differently. It would affect the entire lifecycle, growth and age. It affects time, instead of decay. This is just my opinion, though. Your mileage may vary. Brian > > I'm heard that the Song of Entropy cannot be used to turn an adult into a > child or a baby... but what can it be used for? The main book talks about > it being used to make a vessel really old or really young. Is there a > cut-off to hold old/young you can make someone? And if you use it on an old > person, and make then young, will many of the ailments of age be cured? > There's also an attunement (Eli Ofanim, I believe) that has a similar > effect. Does it work the same as Entropy? > - -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Meet Singles http://corp.mail.com/lavalife ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:33:01 -0500 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: IN> Why Demons fear the Malakim They're the Angels the Devil warned you about. Yeah, yeah, I know you've all heard that one by now. You damn kids today, think you're so blaze with your "frack me!" attitudes, you think you know everything, just because you got fledged with 10 Forces... Well, let me tell you something, kiddo. The day you'll meet a Malakite in the flesh, you'll know a kind of fear even Beleth's servents can't teach. And why is that? Well, for starters, they don't go into Trauma like the rest of us Celestials do after our vessels get whacked. That's scary enough for most, don't you think? Just think about it: You just got done fighting an Angel to Vessel death. You're standing over his bloody corpse, panting and starting to check your wounds, when all of a sudden that Malakite you just killed comes back in a fresh, undamaged vessel, grinning as he says "Ready for Round Two?" ...And it gets even worst if you realize he also brought some of his other Malakite friends along. It's like fighting Heaven's answer to the Terminators, I swear. Then, I guess the next thing is just how damned Alien they are to us. Think about it: every other Choir they have up there has it's own dark reflection down here. You can look at any Choir of Demon here and reasonably figure out how it's Heavenly counterpart works. Look at Shedite, imagine it doing it's thing in two or three bodies at once, and you got a Kyriotate. Look at a Djinn like me, imagine us actually giving a rat's @$$ about our subject of attunement, and you've got a Cherubim. Damn, they've even got a few turn-coat Lillims, although I'll be Blessed if I can figure out how they did. But we don't have anything like the Malakim down here, unless you believe those silly "Honorim" rumors. The simple fact is, Malakim are the one thing Heaven has that we'll never have. So we can't get any in-depth analysis on how they think or operate. All we know from their Modus Operandi is what the recently Fallen tell us, and that just gives us specifics, like they have Codes of Honor they'll die to uphold, they police one-another more fiercely then any Gamsters do, they love fighting Evil, and they can Resonnate another's Virtue. Everything we know from them is second-hand information. Nobody on our side has ever successfully interviewed a Malakite to figure out what makes it tick. Then, there's the Malakites' resonnance: Virtue. That's another concept that's alien to us, but to the Malakite, Virtue is as obvious to them as emotions to a Elohim or a Haballah. They can look at you and know the best or worst thing you've done in a certain time period, relative to your own moral standards. Now, fortunetly, some humans can actually match us in hideous deeds, so they don't automatically kill those who've done something like "Kill a Man" the moment they resonnate them. But they tend to keep an eye on those folks. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a Samingite get a Malakite breathing down it's neck after it got spotted walking into the wrong place at the wrong time. Once a Malakite gets it's sights on you and you can't convince it you're a Human, you're as good as dead. And if all of that's not enough for you, well... If you believe the old tales the First Fallen tell us, the Malakites were first formed in reaction to Lucifer's rebellion. They were the Angels who raised their fists in the air and said "No" to Lucifer, and changed from the Choirs they once were, becoming not Demons like the rest of the Rebels, but a new Choir of Angels bred to fight Demons. Think about That: A whole new choir of Angels, made by God, who's whole purpose in existance is fighting us Demons. The Malakim pretty much have a right to say they're God's scourge upon us. And I won't even get into the details of just how many ways those Malakites can and have turned Demons like you and I into little bits of vessels; The Swordies just go at us with big-ass blades, the Warriors use heavily artillery, the Rockies prefer using their bare hands, the Flowers will trap you in plants as they finish you off quickly, the Creationners use anything they can get their hands on. Trust me, it's bloody scary just how "creative" those last bunch get. So, put that all together, and what do you get? Beings created by God for the express purpose of slaying demons like you, that think in ways you can't fathom, and thus can't outguess, who can instantly tell if you're naughty or nice just by looking at you, will use any method at their disposal to turn you into a bloody smear, and which can't stopped by anything short of Souldeath. That's not scary enough for you? Just remember that all of Heaven's military is now led by one of those things. Now that's scary... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:54:18 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) - --- Daiv wrote: > Of course, this leads me to wonder... if the Lilim was > on top > of a building, with a Sniper rifle and a high power > Scope... could > she get a hook of not killing people, by not pulling the > trigger? Only if people knew she was up there. > If > there were an actual, known threat of a Sniper in the > region (a la > recent headlines) would that make a difference? Nope. Potential targets would still have to be aware of the immediate threat. > If she really were the sniper, would that? And that brings us to the most evil aspect of the Lilim Resonance. They're not limited to reading and fulfilling existing Needs, they can create Needs. They can also influence the levels of existing Needs. For example, Joe is in the running for a job that he knows there are no better qualified candidates for. Since the difficulty of getting the job on his own is pretty low, this might read as a Need/0 if a Lilim could pick it up at all. But then the Lilim arranges for Joe's records to include a felony conviction, thereby damaging Joe's chances of getting the job. The Lilim goes to Joe in her Role as his friend and says, "I can fix this for you, but you'll owe me one." She then proceeds to fulfill what is now a Need/4+. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 05:59:46 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Why Demons fear the Malakim [applause] =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:25:21 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> EPG Cover Art pbarkow wrote: > Anyone done rules for time travel in In Nomine? I once wrote up Othniel, Angel of Time, a maxxed-out Elohite of Destiny with several time-travel related Songs and Attunements. I can re-post him if you like. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:41:25 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Why Demons fear the Malakim What a nice way to start the morning. Thank you, Rolland. Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:55:11 -0800 (PST) From: rob scwalen Subject: IN> demon of alcoholism Jack Daniels (Sargon) Djinn of gluttony Demon of Alcoholism Corporeal Forces: 4 (2 word-forces) Strength: 9 Agility: 7 Ethereal Forces: 3 (2 word-forces) Intelligence: 6 Precision: 6 Celestial Forces: 3 (2 word-forces) Will: 6 Perception: 6 essence:16 Vessel: Human male/3 Role: Bartender/2 status/2 Songs: healing(corporeal/3; ethereal/3; celestial/2) Skills: fighting/3; dodge/3; Knowledge(bartending)/3; Driving/3;and Emote/4 Attunements: djinn of gluttony, demon of alcoholism,and consume Discord: gluttonous This is my demon of alcoholism tell me what you think and i would appreciate any suggestions on how to improve him as well as your oppinion as to the strength of the word of alcoholism. I have yet to write his background but i will e-mail it soon bye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:59:19 GMT From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re:IN> demon of alcoholism rob scwalen writes: > Jack Daniels (Sargon) > Djinn of gluttony > Demon of Alcoholism Well, some more development on the Word of Alcoholism -- what does the Demon of Alcoholism attunement get Sargon? What Rites does he possess? Of course, a sketch that describes who Sargon is, more than just a stat-line, would be equally helpful. Best, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:13:06 -0500 From: Joe Reimers Subject: Re: IN> demon of alcoholism Looks good, but I can see a conflict with Fleurity there... alcohol is a Drug. >Jack Daniels (Sargon) >Djinn of gluttony >Demon of Alcoholism ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:23:16 -0800 (PST) From: rob scwalen Subject: IN> Demon of Alcoholism: servitor of Haagenti or Fleurity Would my Demon of Alcoholism make more sence serving haagenti or fleurity? what would be some suggestions for possible rites and attunements the word of Alcoholism may have? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:41:49 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> demon of alcoholism - ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Reimers Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:13:06 -0500 To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> demon of alcoholism > Looks good, but I can see a conflict with Fleurity there... alcohol is a Drug. > Yes and no. Alcohol can be an addictive substance. However, I am perfectly certain that there are Angels of Wine, Beer, Mead, etc. under the auspices of Eli or maybe Novalis. (The angelic word of *Alcohol* would be some hard-working Elohite under the Word of Antiseptics, under the Word of Medicine. Who's got the Word of Medicine, anyway, now that Raphael is gone? Jean?) The Demon of Alcoholism, I think, would be under Haagenti and not Fleurity because it's the misuse/overuse of alcohol that makes it demonic -- just like it's the misuse/overuse of food that makes it demonic. Fleurity's stuff has no use other than human degradation; that's why it's Drugs and not Medication, Healing, Pain Killing, etc. In fact, any use of potentially addictive substances for purposes *other* than demonic may actually *weaken* the demons responsible for the substances. Sort of the way real love and respect weaken Andrealphus (which I believe is canon). Which means that certain social gatherings could end up as miniature turf wars between various angels and Superiors. (Yes, Moe, I know I've been promising to do something about That Idea for almost two years. Believe it or not, I haven't forgotten, and I have worked on it sporadically.) Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:54:13 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> demon of alcoholism From: "Janet Anderson" > > The Demon of Alcoholism, I think, would be under Haagenti and not > Fleurity because it's the misuse/overuse of alcohol that makes it > demonic -- just like it's the misuse/overuse of food that makes it > demonic. IIRC, it's stated in canon that Haagenti's refusal to give up the word of Alcohol to Fleurity is one of the major causes of friction between them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:27:43 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> demon of alcoholism At 07:55 AM 1/10/2003 -0800, rob scwalen wrote: >Jack Daniels (Sargon) A celestial with a Role is typically listed with his celestial name here, and his Role's name down with his Role. In other words, the typical format would be: Sargon Djinn of Gluttony Demon of Alcoholism ... Role: "Jack Daniels", Bartender/2 Status/2 >Djinn of gluttony All Words should be capitalized ("Gluttony" instead of "gluttony"). >Demon of Alcoholism > >Corporeal Forces: 4 (2 word-forces) > Strength: 9 > Agility: 7 >Ethereal Forces: 3 (2 word-forces) > Intelligence: 6 > Precision: 6 >Celestial Forces: 3 (2 word-forces) > Will: 6 > Perception: 6 Word-Forces don't work like this. They don't get categorized the way personal Forces do. Sargon has 4 Corporeal Forces, 3 Ethereal Forces, 3 Celestial Forces, and 6 Word-Forces. Alcoholism is a powerful Word to be given to a 10-Force demon without any Distinctions. Suggest that Sargon's personal Forces be increased to at least 13, and further suggest that the largest increase be in Celestial Forces. Also, Word-Forces should be capitalized. >essence:16 Essence is almost always equal to the character's total Forces (including Word-Forces), and is therefore rarely (if ever) listed unless the designer of the character wishes to make the point that the character is *not* full on Essence. Also, Essence should be capitalized. >Vessel: Human male/3 >Role: Bartender/2 status/2 As said above, the Role's name usually goes here: "Jack Daniels", Bartender/2 Status/2. Also, Status should be capitalized. >Songs: healing(corporeal/3; ethereal/3; celestial/2) The names of Songs should be capitalized, as should their various realms. Hence, "Healing (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3, Celestial/2)". >Skills: fighting/3; dodge/3; Knowledge(bartending)/3; >Driving/3;and Emote/4 The names of skills should be capitalized, as should any specialties. Hence: "Fighting/3, Dodge/3, Knowledge (Bartending)/3, Driving/3, Emote/4". Lists of attributes (skills, Songs, et cetera) do not usually follow English grammar, and so the "and" before the last item is almost invariably omitted. Lists of attributes (skills, Songs, et cetera) are usually listed in alphabetical order, in order to make locating any individual skill easier. >Attunements: djinn of gluttony, demon of >alcoholism,and consume The names of all attunements should be capitalized. Hence:"Djinn of Gluttony, Demon of Alcoholism, Consume". What does the Demon of Alcoholism attunement do? >Discord: gluttonous The names of Discords should be capitalized. At what level does Sargon have the Gluttonous Discord? At 10 points per extra Force, not counting points for the Word or the Discord, Sargon is a 50-point character. This equates to 14 extra character points - one to two months of weekly games. This makes Sargon an extremely weak character for a Word-Bound, especially in light of the fact that his existence is part of the friction between two Demon Princes. In addition, most of his personal Forces are Corporeal, meaning that if he could be forced into his celestial form, a properly-designed starting character could take him out fairly easily on Earth (presuming, of course, that he didn't run). In Hell, he would barely stand a chance; a starting character with 1 Corporeal Force, 2 Ethereal Forces, and 6 Celestial Forces would make mincemeat of him. 6 Word-Forces seems (without the GMG at hand) to be appropriate for the Word of Alcoholism. However, Sargon himself should have at least 13 Forces, and that few only with a Distinction. A more appropriate number would be 15 or 16. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:35:13 -0500 From: Matthew Gerber Subject: IN> Angel of Medicine (was demon of alcoholism) On 1/10/03 11:41 AM, "Janet Anderson" wrote: > Yes and no. Alcohol can be an addictive substance. However, I am perfectly > certain that there are Angels of Wine, Beer, Mead, etc. under the auspices of > Eli or maybe Novalis. (The angelic word of *Alcohol* would be some > hard-working Elohite under the Word of Antiseptics, under the Word of > Medicine. Who's got the Word of Medicine, anyway, now that Raphael is gone? > Jean?) Can someone turn that big IMHO light back on? Thanks. Medicine is a funny Word. If you want to, you can take it in the strictly modern sense, and have a relatively young Servitor of Lightning given the Word. Or, you can play up the connection between medicine and plants (both traditional and very real; for instance, does anyone here take digitalis? Some accounts say that American Indians brewed foxglove to treat edema of the legs long before Europeans got here) and give the word to Flowers. Jean takes a very dim view of most alternative medicine, of course--but there are aspects very much worth keeping around. In particular, modern medicine, simply because of when and how it's usually applied, *does* have a shortsighted, and hence inherently dangerous, tendency to ignore the body's overall health in favor of simply solving individual problems. As much garbage as has been tossed out in the name of holistic "medicine", the idea that the human body is a complex system and should be kept well-maintained is fundamentally sound, and throwing that signal out with the noise would be foolish. Novalis, for her part, certainly doesn't want useful traditional medicinal techniques lost--but "traditional medicinal techniques" don't translate to "anything anyone tells you". The consequences of treating medical treatment as a feel-good learn-as-you-go exercise are quite simple: somebody dies. You need to know what you're doing with medicine, whether it's herb or compound, and whether you get that information from a grandmother in a rocking chair or a man in a white coat, your source had better know what they're talking about and had better not just make stuff up. Novalis is horrified at the attitudes of many alternative medicine advocates. In other words, this is both as conflicted as it sounds and less conflicted than it sounds. Jean and Novalis' methods in this issue are as different as they are everywhere else, but their goals are actually very well aligned: Keep humans in overall good health, keep effective therapies in circulation, keep humans informed, and keep humans from doing stupid things because they think they know what they're doing. What I'd do, to make a concept that could be played with for a while, is both: make the Angel of Medicine a Servitor of Flowers recently in Service to Lightning, tracking the progression and even referencing the current debates over alternative health methods. And getting very different advice from two very different patrons who both want almost exactly the same thing, and are both certain they know the best way to go about it.... Matt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:45:04 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> demon of alcoholism - --- rob scwalen wrote: > > This is my demon of alcoholism tell me what you > think and i would appreciate any suggestions on how to > improve him as well as your oppinion as to the > strength of the word of alcoholism. First off, I like the name (it's an obvious pun, but when do I ever object to those?). As for improvements and Word strength, what aspect of alcoholism does he emphasize? The addictiveness? Self-medication? Self-delusion? Self-destruction? Answering that question will give you some idea of what the Demon of Alcoholism Attunement should be. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:12:22 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Angel of Medicine (was demon of alcoholism) Matthew Gerber wrote: > Jean takes a very dim view of most alternative medicine, of course--but > there are aspects very much worth keeping around. Doesn't it make a difference that Jean would actually know for sure which bits work and which don't? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:07:28 -0500 From: Matthew Gerber Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Medicine (was demon of alcoholism) On 1/10/03 2:12 PM, "Wajenberg, Earl" wrote: > Doesn't it make a difference that Jean would actually know for sure which > bits work and which don't? Of course--but Jean would also be concerned (as Novalis would be on this issue because of its gravity, if not always in the same senses) with promoting specific methodology and attitude among human researchers. Teach a man to fish instead of giving him a fish, and all that. It's less novel to Jean, at base, as it's just another instance of a common scientific problem--the need to be open-minded and rigorous at the same time, and the difficulty of juggling both of those at once. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:15:15 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> wouldn't finish off... At 8:02 PM -0800 1/9/03, Joey's mail wrote: >> >> Would Novalis soul kill anyone? If yes, anyone other than Saminga? > >Probably not; she would always try kindness first. Which doesn't mean she wouldn't soul-kill something. She'd just try kindness first. She's got access to the Seraph resonance -- she can tell, usually, when someone _means_ "**** you, rose*****!" She can tell the truth to the reply when she asks, "And, is that your final answer?" And if it is... - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:16:37 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Time Travel? (Re: EPG Cover Art) At 10:53 PM -0400 1/9/03, pbarkow@hfx.eastlink.ca wrote: >Anyone done rules for time travel in In Nomine? Yes, but they were trimmed from the final draft of the book. O:> (Kronos' Pocket Watch used to have some... interesting effects.) And then there's the time travel adventures in INS/MV. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:09:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilith and Mercurians At 4:03 PM -0500 1/9/03, William J. Keith wrote: >>>For that matter, Lilith and the Impudite Princes as well: [...] >>And if you make sure not to walk into something Funny, Kobal. > >Augh, I can't believe I forgot an Impudite Prince. Ah well. Ah, but Kobal _can_ kill humans -- if it's Funny. (At least, his Impudites can, and one presumes...) [Here's a fun set of things to do... Figure out what twist you can put on a Superior so that what Everyone Knows is... false. E.g., Lilith _can't_ see Needs (she's a Superior still, so she can geas, _with permission_) and therefore no hooks. Or Andrealphus is just pretty, and while he's got a lot of stamina in the sack, just no _technique_ (he's too used to everyone else doing all the work).] >>So give Lilith a Malakite Regressor Beam rifle with a sniper-scope, >>and terrorize your PCs someday. It's good for them. Really. > >You know, I know this intellectually, but find it *very* hard to be >intentionally mean. Twice now, I've run a Palladium game meant to poke fun >at the sheer institutional violence in the game world, calling it >"Bloodfest." Total casualties for both games: 1. :^) Tsk! Well, I suppose it does poke fun at it... from another direction! Clearly you need to be exposed to more sadistic GMs somewhere! O:> - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:18:55 GMT From: phillip@mbaysav.org Subject: Re: IN> Lilith and Mercurians > [Here's a fun set of things to do... Figure out what twist you can > put on a Superior so that what Everyone Knows is... false. E.g., > Lilith _can't_ see Needs (she's a Superior still, so she can geas, > _with permission_) and therefore no hooks. Or Andrealphus is just > pretty, and while he's got a lot of stamina in the sack, just no > _technique_ (he's too used to everyone else doing all the work).] You mean like Laurence's private and VERY secret Shoujo addiction? (Novalis, making a social call on Laurence, walks in on a Sailor Moon marathon.) Laurence, not even batting an eyelash, "Good moral message. Love, justice, courage. That's it." Pause. "What? Why are you looking at me like that?" (Fade out on a widely-grinning Novalis, and the phrase "Wait 'till Micheal hears about this.) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2927 ********************************