in_nomine-digest Saturday, January 11 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2928 In this digest: Re: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) Re: IN> Angel of Medicine (was demon of alcoholism) IN> [3 Souls] So you work for a Demon Prince, part 1 IN> Kobal on the run (Was So you work for a Demon Prince?) Re: IN> [3 Souls] So you work for a Demon Prince, part 1 IN> Servitor Attunement Question IN> wouldn't finish off... Re: IN> Servitor Attunement Question IN> what kind of word would Alcoholism be? IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) Re: IN> Servitor Attunement Question Re: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) Re: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:35:46 -0500 From: Michael Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and killing (Was Finishing off...) At 10:02 PM 1/9/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > Of course, this leads me to wonder... if the Lilim was > > on top of a building, with a Sniper rifle and a high power > > Scope... could she get a hook of not killing people, by > > not pulling the trigger? > >If I were the GM, I'd give a Geas-hook relative to the difficulty the >person would have doing the task himself. Given that all he'd have to >do would be step to the side, or duck, I'd also rule it to be such an >inconsequential hook that it's unusable. Not necessarily; one crippling shot in the legs leaving the targets screaming in agony on the ground might very well get a "Dear God, I don't want to die!" that's quite a high Hook since they'd have no other way to save themselves, and they know the Lilim is doing them a favor that way. Might work well for Lilim of The War or Death, although they'd be toast the first time they kneecapped an angel (imagine watching through the sniper scope when the target hums something, then stand up very pissed and sprouts black wings... ;)). And Dissonance comes from the celestial performing the violence, right? Be pretty easy to locate her sniping spot that way. Still, for an individual target (particularly one the Lilim doesn't mind trading a vessel for a Geas on) it might be worth it; imagine a major politician and a "near-fatal assassination attempt"... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:55:55 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Medicine (was demon of alcoholism) >What I'd do, to make a concept that could be played with for a while, is >both: make the Angel of Medicine a Servitor of Flowers recently in Service >to Lightning, tracking the progression and even referencing the current >debates over alternative health methods. And getting very different advice >from two very different patrons who both want almost exactly the same thing, >and are both certain they know the best way to go about it.... Wow, this makes a really good plot toy. Inter-Archangel are a favorite topic of mine to play with, and I'm a fan of both Jean and Novalis; having this (doubtless very powerful) Servitor as a forum for the conflict between their two ideologies and methods is an excellent fit. This one's going into the possible adventure file. >Matt William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:47:26 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> [3 Souls] So you work for a Demon Prince, part 1 My rule is that while a demonic PC doesn't have to be good, he or she must be sympathetic. Below are some notes on how to portray sympathetic demons, for each of the various demon princes. These are intended as suggestions, so if you have a better idea, use it! (You can of course also play a heroic demon if you like. I'm particularly interested if you think you've got a cool new version of your demon prince's personality to go with it.) Andrealphus - ----------- I think Andrealphus is the hardest Prince to construct a sympathetic servitor for: his dissonance conditions prohibit feeling or displaying any compassion towards any humans. To make a demon of Lust work as a sympathetic character, it's probably a good idea to interpret the dissonance condition as indifference to humans rather than open hostility, and to make sure that there are some angels, demons or ethereals that your PC *does* care for. Of course, you can choose to wallow in angst, too, and create a Discordant wretch who is deeply in disfavor with Andrealphus because of his or her inability to stop caring. That's cool too. Asmodeus - -------- The Game basically exists to keep Hell from spiralling apart into its noxious component parts. It's a police organization, and is actually roughly as honorable and competent as the FBI. Look at Asmodeus's distinctions, and you'll see that they mostly involve identifying trustworthy people and making fair decisions. Fair chunks of it are corrupt (think Whitey Bulger and the FBI), but it basically works, so any cop type from _Dragnet_ to _Training Day_ makes a viable PC. Of course the Game is ruthless. The average inhabitant of Hell is someone like Countess Bathory, Al Capone, or Jeffrey Dahmer. You need to be ruthless to keep scum like that in line. Of course the Game is going to be jaded and cynical. They're cops, working the toughest beat in the universe. Of course they're going to be brutal. If *you* were the only thing standing between a Renegade Balseraph of Fire and a nuclear warhead, wouldn't you be willing to get a little...rough? Baal - ---- Baal encourages honorable behavior in his servitors, so it's dirt-simple to construct a sympathetic demon of the War. Sure, it's crazy samurai macho BS, but it's still cool. Naturally, you can play against type, too, by running a sensible cowardly demon of the War who gets all these crazy death-and-glory missions. Belial - ------ Belial is basically the demon prince of evil masterminds. His dissonance condition is for the character's plans to fail -- and a character can react to a failure by complexifying his plot. He encourages dynamism and ingenuity on the part of his servitors. The high-status route is to try and play a mover-and-shaker type, which will require you to formulate clear goals and go after them proactively. Think of the best Bond villains, and try to generate sympathy by being someone living the life of Riley, so that the other players will think "I want to be him/her." The low-status route is to play a demonic hustler, one bare step ahead of disaster. Beleth - ------ Beleth is not exactly a subtle demon princess, and there isn't really a whole lot of nuance I can add to her. However, you do have two important important edges to work with. First, Beleth is obsessed with Blandine, so you can often expect her to ignore what your PC is doing. Second, you can can have friends on three planes of existence, rather than just two. You can have an ethereal god or two that's fallen on hard times, which you help out. ("Yeah, me and Set go way back, and he crashes at my place sometimes. I think primal forces of evil ought to stick up for each other, y'know?") Haagenti - -------- Haagenti is a lot of fun to run a PC under, because conspicuous consumption is a lot of fun to roleplay. It's as easy to come up with sympathetic demon of Gluttony as it is to come up with a cool demon of the War. Hunter S. Thompson would make a great demonic servitor of Haagenti. So would Louis the Fourteenth. Kobal - ----- The important thing here is that while Kobal himself is a black hearted intellectual sadist, his Servitors don't have to be. Kobal's standing in Hell has been steadily slipping over the millenia. Once, he was the chief tempter, but he has lost that portfolio to Kronos. More recently, he lost his position as master of the infernal theater to the Media. At this point his servitors are mostly down to just the true believers and those with nowhere else to run to. Either of those types can be made into sympathetic PCs. A true believer PC will be made sympathetic by the fact that Kobal will ruthlessly abuse his or her trust in him. A demon with nowhere else to go has the benefit that pathetic loser demons are always sympathetic. You can even combine the two for maximum pathos. Kronos - ------ Start from the premise that your PC is completely and totally screwed. Kronos knows all of your weak points and vulnerabilities, and will reach out and twist on a regular basis just because he likes screwing with people. Now, play a character who can still be hurt. You need reservoirs of idealism and good feeling for Kronos to trample over. Start a garden, own a kitten, make friends with some lonely person on the Net; and then expect Kronos to turn these into horrifically awful disasters. Remember that if your PC has gone completely numb, then there's no angle for the other players to feel empathy for your character. If you as a player just can't take it anymore, then have your PC go Renegade or defect to some other Prince's service. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 05:09:52 GMT From: phillip@mbaysav.org Subject: IN> Kobal on the run (Was So you work for a Demon Prince?) > Kobal's standing in Hell has been steadily slipping over the millenia. > Once, he was the chief tempter, but he has lost that portfolio to Kronos. > More recently, he lost his position as master of the infernal theater > to the Media. You know, this is an interesting point. The part about Kronos is canonical, but is the bit with Nybbas? I find it interesting that Kobal's two closest allies according to the main book are Haagenti and Saminga, two princes who are almost diametrically opposed to him in style. I wonder if perhaps even Lucifer's favor with him is fading? Imagine it when he realizes that he has a matter of years before he finally becomes open game to all the Princes he's become a thorn to. Enough to drive even a Prince renegade, perhaps? Hiding on earth and hoping to drop off of everyone's radar? I really can't see him Redeeming; he's too firmly entrenched in his own little variety of evil for that. But hiding on earth is definately a possibility. He just better hope Eli doesn't find him. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:06:59 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> [3 Souls] So you work for a Demon Prince, part 1 On Fri, 10 Jan 2003, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: Asmodeus > in the universe. Of course they're going to be brutal. If *you* were > the only thing standing between a Renegade Balseraph of Fire and a > nuclear warhead, wouldn't you be willing to get a little...rough? > Oh....YES! I am loving this interpretation of The Game. I can't belive I hadn't managed to see all that on my own, it's so /obvious/! This is so going into the save file! Thankyouthankyouthankyou! *cackle* This way I can screw with my players' heads, when they realize that that nasty Gamester habbie has...well maybe not a heart, but.... :) - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 08:18:09 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: IN> Servitor Attunement Question Zadkiel's Aura of Divinity Attunement offers "Protection and resistance equal to twice the check didgit," but twice the check didgit of what roll? A few other servitor attunements, I think perhaps Kalid's That Which Moves Mountains (although I could be wrong), also require some type of roll without specifying what type of roll is made. In general, what roll do you use for that? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 08:44:59 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> wouldn't finish off... > Kobal wouldn't kill Eli either, and I don't think Nybbas would > either; Eli, in his own way, is integral to all their words. When Oannes was destroyed the oceans did not disappear. AAs and DPs are not the driving force behind their words. They are charged with the management and nurturing of an aspect of the Symphony. Eli acts as a break, guiding creativity. By holding his Word he prevents Nybbas from being even more prolific. Even Saminga may suffer in his quest to create new ways of dying. This also points out why Dominic is concerned about the behavior of Eli and Gabriel. Creation and Fire do not come from Eli and Gabriel, rather they are charged with resisting and eradicating Infernal influences in the aspect of the Symphony that they have been charged with protecting. Word friction was probably deliberately included in Words as a way of staking territory. Kobal and Nybbas, indeed, all the Word Bound of Hell, would probably experience a kind of Renaissance if Eli were no longer holding the Word of Creation. If Eli were destroyed creation/creativity would not disappear. It would be freed of its Divine caretaker. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:08:04 -0500 From: Michael Nutt Subject: Re: IN> Servitor Attunement Question > Zadkiel's Aura of Divinity Attunement offers "Protection and > resistance equal to twice the check didgit," but twice the check > didgit of what roll? >From the Errata (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata/heaven-hell.html) for Heaven and Hell, the book that contains Zadkiel's writeup... "The Aura of Divinity is immobile and lasts until the borders are breached, either by someone leaving or a non-malevolent sentient creature entering. To find the check digit, roll one die (or all three, in case of Interventions)." - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:25:55 -0800 (PST) From: rob scwalen Subject: IN> what kind of word would Alcoholism be? Would Alcoholism be a minor word with 6 Word-Forces or would it be a significant word with 7 Word-forces? I also rewrote my stat sheet for sargon making him a 12 Force demon of Alcoholism with the Knight of Gluttony attunement. as well as keeping the word of Alcoholism at 6 Word-forces. I will send the new stat sheet as well as a background for him relatively soon thanks for all your suggestions bye __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:10:22 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) At 11:18 PM +0000 1/10/03, phillip@mbaysav.org wrote: >> [Here's a fun set of things to do... Figure out what twist you can >> put on a Superior so that what Everyone Knows is... false. [...] > >You mean like Laurence's private and VERY secret Shoujo addiction? Just so long as he doesn't cosplay Sailor Moon... O;> - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:17:24 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Servitor Attunement Question At 8:18 AM -0800 1/11/03, Joey's mail wrote: >Zadkiel's Aura of Divinity Attunement offers "Protection and resistance >equal to twice the check didgit," but twice the check didgit of what roll? A >few other servitor attunements, [...] require some type of roll >without specifying what type of roll is made. In general, what roll do you >use for that? As a general rule for such things: Roll against a target number of 12, basically. (I.e., to get the check digit and see if there's an Intervention.) See also Lilim of Lust, IIRC. (Must. Get. Books. Down. To. Where. I. Now. Do. Email. O:p ) - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 23:28:07 GMT From: phillip@mbaysav.org Subject: Re: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) > Just so long as he doesn't cosplay Sailor Moon... Nah, I see him as more the Makoto/Jupiter type. Now *David*, on the other hand... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:44:40 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Shih Subject: Re: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) - --- phillip@mbaysav.org wrote: > > Just so long as he doesn't cosplay Sailor Moon... > > Nah, I see him as more the Makoto/Jupiter type. Now > *David*, on the other > hand... No no no, Laurence would cosplay Venus or Uranus, because they get the Swords. (The big sword that Sailormoon kills herself with in the manga is rightfully Venus's, in her capactity as commander of the Inner Senshi. Uranus has a sword for her talisman.) You know, it must be terribly convenient for a cosplayer to be a superior. No more worries about getting a wig to do the right hairstyle, just whip yourself up a vessel with blue or pink or whatever hair. - -Jennifer __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. 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