in_nomine-digest Monday, January 13 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2931 In this digest: Re: IN> Knockout rules? Subject: Re: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) Subject: Re: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) Re: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) Re: IN> My first post of the year! Re: IN> Dominic and Human-killing (Re: Children of Grigori (was My first post of the year!)) Re: IN> Dominic and Human-killing (Re: Children of Grigori (wasMy first post of the year!)) Re: IN> Dominic and Human-killing (Re: Children of Grigori (was My first post of the year!)) Re: IN> Knockout rules? RE: IN> Saint Albert IN> Mercurian question. IN> How strong would the word of Industrial Accidents be? IN> Asmodeus on the fnord IN> Servitor of Gabriel attunements IN> About Baal's word... Re: IN> How strong would the word of Industrial Accidents be? IN> Canonical AA word replacements? Re: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents RE: IN> About Baal's word... Re: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents RE: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? Re: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? IN> Word-bound and Distinctions (Re: Demon of Industrial Accidents) Re: IN> About Baal's word... Re: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? Re: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents Re: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? Re: IN> About Baal's word... Re: IN> About Baal's word... RE: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? RE: IN> Kobal on the run (Was So you work for a Demon Prince?) RE: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents RE: IN> About Baal's word... IN> After Laurence Re: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? RE: IN> Saint Albert Re: IN> Also, grappling rules? Re: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:41:18 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Knockout rules? - --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > > 2) If the target is a PC or an important NPC, he gets a > > Strength roll to resist. Supernaturals add their > Vessel > > level to the TN, humans add Toughness. > > I'd be inclined to say that this rule is fine for humans, > but that > Celestials (or anyone in a vessel) cannot be knocked out > except by being given a solid beating. The problem with that is that it both ignores the potential of Supernaturals to have superhuman Strength and trivializes the Malakite of Protection Attunement (which specifically prevents them from being knocked out, implying that it is possible to KO someone in a Vessel). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:51:15 -0600 From: Gregg Forge Subject: Subject: Re: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) Subject: Re: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) Re: IN> Everything you know is... wrong (Re: Lilith and Mercurians) > > >>>Am I the only one who thinks that Andrea would leap at a chance to cosplay >>>Cutie Honey? >> As mentioned, That's Laurences Schtick. However, Andrea is not subtle. Andrea is immensely vain. Andrea likes being as naked as possible, all the time. So we turn to Go Nagai's OTHER infamous creation... Kamika-Z ...Naked Masked Warrior Keikko Kamen!. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:57:55 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> My first post of the year! [bows and hands over Essence] How high do y'all plan to raise the bar? Just want to know before I try to write something. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:30:04 -0500 From: Matthew Gerber Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Human-killing (Re: Children of Grigori (was My first post of the year!)) On 1/12/03 8:37 PM, "Elizabeth McCoy" wrote: >> [...] killing a human, for which Dominic will sentence an angel to >> soul-death. > Huh? Where's _that_ from? I don't think I see it, scanning > Superiors 1. That'll teach me to assume something I read in a casual conversation on-list was actually accurate... I think I phrased my original question poorly. More directly, what I'm curious about is, do angels kill all Grigori Kids with impunity, or just Nephilim, or neither? I know what I would and will do IMC (and am trying not to start an discussion over what the "right" idea is, as somehow the thought has way too many similarities with "was the Purity Crusade good or evil" for me to have much confidence on how it'll go...) but I'm curious if there's a canon answer. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:40:18 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Human-killing (Re: Children of Grigori (wasMy first post of the year!)) >I think I phrased my original question poorly. More directly, what I'm >curious about is, do angels kill all Grigori Kids with impunity, or just >Nephilim, or neither? I know what I would and will do IMC (and am trying Well, as page 106 of the core rules claims that many angels see the CotG as a "sacred ace in the hole" and adds that as CotG who are aware of their heritage are wary, "efforts to reunite them with the Heavenly host will require finesse", I'd suggest that non-Nephil Children are fairly well-viewed by angels (as many have "unwittingly changed the course of history... more often for good than evil). Harukami - ---- "Then again... we depended on Elly today, and we got locked in a room with Maria to be interrogated by Judgment Malakim." "Oh, like she coulda seen that coming." http://haru_in.tripod.com/ Haru's IN page: Game logs, art, and fiction. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:40:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Dominic and Human-killing (Re: Children of Grigori (was My first post of the year!)) At 11:30 PM -0500 1/12/03, Matthew Gerber wrote: >On 1/12/03 8:37 PM, "Elizabeth McCoy" wrote: > >>> [...] killing a human, for which Dominic will sentence an angel to >>> soul-death. >> Huh? Where's _that_ from? I don't think I see it, scanning >> Superiors 1. > >That'll teach me to assume something I read in a casual conversation on-list >was actually accurate... Oh, it's in there -- but it was a Flowers Servitor and a Kyriotate and the victim was the Kyrio's host. That's rather more serious than just "killing a human." That's defying dissonance conditions on two levels, not just "bad accident" or "acting in the heat of the moment." >I think I phrased my original question poorly. More directly, what I'm >curious about is, do angels kill all Grigori Kids with impunity, or just >Nephilim, or neither? Neither, really. If they find one rampaging (and most Nephalim _do_ tend to be kind of messed up and likely to rampage), that's another matter. They are, however, supposed to _avoid_ Children of the Grigori. I'd have to drag down the Corporeal Player's Guide to get more canon. Which I can't really do since the toddler is on a rampage. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 00:42:56 -0500 From: Michael Nutt Subject: Re: IN> Knockout rules? > The problem with that is that it both ignores the > potential of Supernaturals to have superhuman > Strength and trivializes the Malakite of Protection > Attunement (which specifically prevents them from > being knocked out, implying that it is possible to > KO someone in a Vessel). The Malakite of Protection attunement (1) prevents them from ever being stunned, which normally happens if you take one-quarter or more of your Body hits from any one attack, and (2) says they won't go unconscious, which is what happens normally when you are between 0 and negative (vessel level times Strength) Body hits in corporeal combat, or if you go below 0 Mind hits in ethereal combat. Basically, it gives them an extra (vessel level times Strength) body hits, which is a major plus to all you munchkins out there. :) I'd wonder if they're immune to the Song of Thunder, myself. - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 00:43:49 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> Saint Albert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Dallman > Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 8:22 PM > > The call of Jacob's ladder might become irresistible for those interested > in this problem, and I suspect that many of the more pragmatic physicists > - Openheimer, Von Neumann, Fermi, and so on - took that route to the > answer fairly quickly. That seems an awful lot like flipping to the end of the mystery before you read it to know who the murderer is. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:14:10 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Mercurian question. >> A Mercurian cannot act violently -- is he allowed to be violent to anything, >> or only demons? What about Ethereals? > > The original weakness has been erratad--it only applies to humans. But not cattle, trucks and buildings. "... had to destroy the villiage in order to save it ..." >|) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:14:10 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> How strong would the word of Industrial Accidents be? Chernobyl was an industrial accident. Who would the demon serve? Vapula? Would the Chernobyl reactor core be a tether? And what about the underground tanks that held the chemicals that devistated Bophal, India? And does anyone else worry more about the North Koreans using a "Comunist Built Nuclear Reactor" than about their having nuclear weapons? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:14:08 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Asmodeus on the fnord > One of the things I'm trying to suggest in my game is that the upper > ranks of Hell are fluid and constantly changing depending on who has > power at the current moment. > (While Asmodeus is one of the original Fallen, he has lost his crown > many times over the ages. He's currently back in, but who knows how > long that will last? Unless he looses it deliberately. He _is_ the Prince of the Game, after all. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:14:10 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Servitor of Gabriel attunements > she targets those who are into cruel games. > ...not just emotional games. Of course, some mindgames... INWO, KULT, WoD, Toon... The list goes on... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:52:46 -0500 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: IN> About Baal's word... I've been thinking about Baal and his Word, and how everyone says that he holds a self-destructive Word, because once The War is over, no matter who wins, Baal will lose his Word Forces faster then you can say "Baal goes down the Hooooole". Except... Isn't the whole goal of Hell to conquer Heaven, so that Lucifer can take over the conductor's stand of the Symphony, and impose his will upon it? That would mean that Lucifer would decide the rules of the Symphony. He would assign ALL the words, not only the Infernal ones. So he could give new words to all his loyal servents: Belial could become Lord of ALL Fire, not just the Infernal version, Kobal could become Lord of ALL Humor, not only Dark Humor. And Baal could trade in his now obsolete Word for a whole new, more stable Word... Maybe the Word of Valor again. ...Or maybe War, if Michael's no longer using it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:56:52 +0100 From: "Shadur t'Kharn" Subject: Re: IN> How strong would the word of Industrial Accidents be? In other news for Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 09:14:10AM -0500, BC Petery has been seen typing: > Chernobyl was an industrial accident. And Vapula is still interested in the long-term effects of exposure on humans, most likely. He'll be annoyed at the (Jean-powered) efforts to build a containment structure around the lot. Hey, east-european Tech/Lightning adventure seed... > Who would the demon serve? Vapula? Technology gone massive amounts of Wrong and causing all sorts of misery? Who else? Sure, sometimes accidents can be somewhat funny, but not all of them. > Would the Chernobyl reactor core be a > tether? And what about the underground tanks that held the chemicals that > devistated Bophal, India? Word-bound don't get to have tethers. You need to be a Superior to stabilize one, and that means that said Superior is the one that gets the Essence. OTOH, if the Tether is very much specific to your Word and you ever get Superior status, it'll probably be granted over if it doesn't switch automatically. Assuming you're on reasonably good standing with your superior, but I don't think Vapula is complaining about Murpiath's performance so far... > And does anyone else worry more about the North Koreans using a "Comunist > Built Nuclear Reactor" than about their having nuclear weapons? Not nearly as much as I worry about the monkey sitting in the big command chair of the biggest nuclear superpower in the world. But that's politics and I'm fairly certain we should stop this particular topic dead NOW. - -Shad. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:08:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? Are there any examples in Canon (so no Tothiel), where a word which was previously held by an Archangel who is no longer there has been given to a new Angel? While I doubt the Seraphim council would give Purity to a new angel, and the old words held by the AAs who fell (Light, Love, etc.(?)) might be reserved for when they redeemed, I doubt very much that the servitors of Raphael or Oannes would object to Worthy angels being given their word even if not at AA status... Randy - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:16:40 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? > Are there any examples in Canon (so no Tothiel), where a word which was > previously held by an Archangel who is no longer there has been given to a > new Angel? No Word held by an Archangel has ever been reused. The list includes: Light Love Valor Fear Purity Knowledge the Water Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:03:25 -0800 (PST) From: rob scwalen Subject: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents The Demon of Industrial Accidents that i am writing up for my campaign, i think would work for saminga due to the fact that in my campaign the paper mills in the fox valley area may have a lot of accidental fatalities in my world. I also have a unrelated question, Do Word-bound have to have a distinction higher than Knight to gain a word or are there Knights of hell that have Words? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:13:56 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> About Baal's word... > -----Original Message----- > From: Rolland Therrien > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 9:53 AM > > And Baal could trade in his now obsolete Word for a whole new, more stable > Word... Maybe the Word of Valor again. ...Or maybe War, if Michael's no > longer using it. Or maybe, Baal expects another War to break out soon after the last one ends. After all, you don't become a chess champion to play a single game. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:19:27 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents At 09:03 AM 1/13/2003 -0800, rob scwalen wrote: > The Demon of Industrial Accidents that i am writing >up for my campaign, i think would work for saminga due >to the fact that in my campaign the paper mills in the >fox valley area may have a lot of accidental >fatalities in my world. Is this the Demon of Industrial Accidents or the Demon of Industrial Accidents In Paper Mills In The Fox Valley Area? Word-bound demons rarely, if ever, bind themselves and their Words so closely to a single area unless their Word explicitly deals with that specific area. >I also have a unrelated question, Do Word-bound have >to have a distinction higher than Knight to gain a >word or are there Knights of hell that have Words? Lucifer can Word-bind a 7-Force demon if he wants to. He almost never wants to, though. Distinctions are demonstrations that the Demon Prince whom the Distinguished demon serves places some degree of trust and esteem in the demon, which is something Lucifer looks for when he's binding Words. Something to keep in mind is that while Lucifer might bind a low-ranking demon to a Word on a whim, for him to do so would typically imply either that he's losing his mind, or that he has a plan in mind regarding that demon that he might not have mentioned to anybody yet. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:18:45 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Finder > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 9:08 AM > > I doubt very much that the servitors of > Raphael or Oannes would object to Worthy angels being given their word > even if not at AA status... I doubt *any* angel would object to a worthy angel being assigned any particular Word in the Symphony. The number of celestials those angels consider "worthy," on the other hand, might also be infinitesimally small. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:25:09 -0800 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents >>Do Word-bound have to have a distinction higher than Knight to gain a word or are there Knights of hell that have Words? It depends on Lucifer's mood. He can give a 10 Force demon a Word over a Baron and not need to give a reason for it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:51:51 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? Hi all -- Thanks everyone for the input; it really helped out. I've got some preliminary rules in place, which I thought I'd share. I didn't want to allow automatic pulling of punches, because it lets munchkins off a little too easy. Comments appreciated: PULLING PUNCHES During combat, a combatant may announce the intention to "pull his punch". He must do this before rolling his attack. He then rolls against (the higher of Precision or Agility), applying risk modifiers if the player wishes. He then rolls his attack as normal. If he hits, and the roll to pull his punch succeeded, reduce the damage the attack does by twice its check digit. If he hits and the roll to pull his punch failed, there is no effect -- unless the check digit was a 6, in which case he does no damage (and misses the target completely). A player may only pull his punch if he is using a blunt weapon, such as his fists, a club, or a blackjack. KNOCKOUT If a player wishes to attempt a knockout, he must declare his intention, then pull his punch as above with a -2 modifier to the target number. Damage is assessed as above. If the damage, before being reduced, would have stunned the target, the target must make a Will roll. If he fails, he is knocked unconscious, with the check digit indicating the number of minutes the target will be out. Now, another question that became a real issue was grappling rules -- the last combat had three security guards trying to restrain a Cherub who wanted to shrug them off*, a Malakite wrestling a gun away from a security guard and then holding him down, and a Kyriotate handcuffing the Malakite against his will. I did Strength rolls for everything, which I found deeply dissatisfying. Anyone got better methods? - -- Chris * He succeeded with two, then rolled an Infernal Intervention on the third. I decided in flinging off the third he threw him against the bar and snapped the guard's neck. Much unhappiness followed. The Song of Thunder was Sung. It's been a noisy sort of hour, in game. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:01:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Word-bound and Distinctions (Re: Demon of Industrial Accidents) At 12:19 PM -0500 1/13/03, EDG wrote: >At 09:03 AM 1/13/2003 -0800, rob scwalen wrote: >>I also have a unrelated question, Do Word-bound have >>to have a distinction higher than Knight to gain a >>word or are there Knights of hell that have Words? > >Lucifer can Word-bind a 7-Force demon if he wants to. He almost never wants >to, though. Distinctions are demonstrations that the Demon Prince whom the >Distinguished demon serves places some degree of trust and esteem in the demon, >which is something Lucifer looks for when he's binding Words. And vice-versa! Once Lucifer has Word-bound a demon, provided it's not a stupid Word and an incompetent holder (perhaps only meant to foment infighting? a martyr when Heaven catches up with it?), the demon's Prince is likely to look more favorably upon the new Word-bound and -- if the newbie doesn't futz it up -- be inclined to give better assignments and grant better rewards. (One doesn't want a half-way competent Word-bound to get toasted because one didn't give it the power it would need to survive its enemies...) - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:07:01 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> About Baal's word... > Or maybe, Baal expects another War to break out soon after the last one > ends. After all, you don't become a chess champion to play a single game. > > -- Chris That makes me wonder what the Demon Princes are thinking. What do they expect the world to be like if they win? Asmodeus expects his jurisdiction to extend to Earth. Andrealphus expects lust to become a way of life for humanity. Baal expects to always represent the War and every one of its glorious victories. Belial expects to burn Heaven to the ground. (What will he do when there's nothing left to burn?) Beleth expects to drive humanity to extinction with Nightmares. Haagenti expects to be able to be able to roam the Earth, eating what he will. Kobal doesn't expect the War to ever end. Kronos expects the Symphony to die, along with everything in it, including himself. Especially himself. Lilith expects the end of the War to end her need for Lucifer's protection. Lucifer knows Kronos is right. Malphas expects victory to split Hell into warring factions, eaching trying to claim the world as its own. Nybbas doesn't want the War to end. Saminga expects to be able to roam the Earth, killing as he wishes. Valefor anticipates the plunder of Heaven and the theft of hope from billions of humans. Vapula wants to replace Jean's stewardship of the rules of reality with his own. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:10:27 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? At 12:51 PM 1/13/2003 -0500, Chris Bergstresser wrote: >PULLING PUNCHES This might work; I'd like to see it in practice. As a note, it *is* possible to pull a blow with a non-blunt, bladed weapon; you merely hit with the flat of the blade, as opposed to the edge. A strictly piercing weapon, on the other hand, such as a stiletto or a spear, is very, very difficult to pull. (As a further note, there are blunt weapons which can't be pulled; a studded or spiked mace comes to mind.) >KNOCKOUT This should probably be based on Strength. While Will can be used to resist going gradually unconscious, resisting a sap to the back of the head deals more with the target's stamina, which Strength represents in this game. >Anyone got better methods? I'm not sure what dissatisfies you here. However, I suggest making Grappling a specialty of Fighting, with the same default. >* He succeeded with two, then rolled an Infernal Intervention on the third. >I decided in flinging off the third he threw him against the bar and snapped >the guard's neck. Much unhappiness followed. The Song of Thunder was Sung. >It's been a noisy sort of hour, in game. That's noisy? Wow. I *must* be in unnaturally loud games. (In Casca's Sunday game, we've hit 100 notes of disturbance, IIRC; I've *personally* caused 20+ in a single turn, without killing a single human.) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:39:50 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents - --- rob scwalen wrote: > The Demon of Industrial Accidents that i am writing > up for my campaign, i think would work for saminga Ah. Then he's probably not an Impudite. OTOH, an Impudite can't kill humans -- arranging for humans to be killed is another matter... > I also have a unrelated question, Do Word-bound have > to have a distinction higher than Knight to gain a > word or are there Knights of hell that have Words? Word-bound don't have to be Distincted at all, but those who hold more powerful Words almost always are. Industrials Accidents is big enough to require a Distinction but small enough that a Knight could hold it, IMO. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:43:54 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? - --- Chris Bergstresser wrote: > PULLING PUNCHES > During combat, a combatant may announce the intention to > "pull his punch". > He must do this before rolling his attack. He then rolls > against (the higher of Precision or Agility) Why Agility? That attribute applies mainly to whole-body movement, while pulling punches is a manual dexterity (and thus Precision) thing. I can see a case for Perception, though. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:47:17 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> About Baal's word... - --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > Baal expects to always represent the War and every one of > its glorious victories. Or maybe Baal has a plan to keep the War going in some form even after Heaven's defeat. Shame about those few angels and that one Archangel who somehow escaped; the continuing quest to end their guerilla war will keep Baal and his demons busy while the Shal-Mari Princes are partying... };> =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:09:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: Re: IN> About Baal's word... On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Michael Walton wrote: > --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > Or maybe Baal has a plan to keep the War going in some > form even after Heaven's defeat. Shame about those few > angels and that one Archangel who somehow escaped; the > continuing quest to end their guerilla war will keep Baal > and his demons busy while the Shal-Mari Princes are > partying... };> So who would he want as the Archangel leading this band of rebels? I figure out of Michael and Lawrence he wants to kill at least one at the time of the armageddon. Probably feel better to get rid of the overgrown Boyscout. and leave Michael out in the cold. Janus is a possibility, Most of the others don't feel quite right. Randy > > ===== >

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

> >

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter > how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

> > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:20:09 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? Randy Finder wrote: "Are there any examples in Canon (so no Tothiel), where a word which was previously held by an Archangel who is no longer there has been given to a new Angel?" I don't believe so, no. Speculation on the list is that, in the case of the Fallen, the Demon Prince would likely come gunning for the new holder of its old Word, out of envy and general spite. I know of no reason to leave the Words of the slain unheld; maybe no good candidates have presented themselves. Ta-da! A new list topic! Write up succesor Archangels for Oannes or Raphael. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:13:13 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Kobal on the run (Was So you work for a Demon Prince?) Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > Princes and archangels have that status because they have *huge* > amounts of Word-machinery, so it's hard for a Prince to run without > losing his or her word. A lesser word-bound might manage it, if they > were able to hide their Word connection.... Can a Wordbound strip themselves of their Word, then? (Not that this would be a common thing to try.) Is the "machinery" of the Word in any sense tangible? E.g., is there this huge, roiling cloud of rubber chickens, Groucho glasses, grinning masks, and joy-buzzers that Kobal has to maintain and could not readily take with him if he ran away? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:16:11 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents rob scwalen wrote: I also have a unrelated question, Do Word-bound have to have a distinction higher than Knight to gain a word or are there Knights of hell that have Words? There are no formal prerequisites. Lucifer gives out all infernal Words and sometimes does so whimsically (or for secret reasons). List members have written up imps with Words (humorously) and no one has said they were non-canonical. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:41:40 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> About Baal's word... Ben (Rampaging Crypto-Man) wrote: "That makes me wonder what the Demon Princes are thinking. What do they expect the world to be like if they win?" I think some of them don't expect to win, but want to give God as much grief as possible as they go down. Among the others, if they have given it much thought at all (that is to say, possibly excepting Belial and Saminga), they probably expect to start fighting each other once the Host is dealt with. The main fissure in Hell will be between the Corruption and Destruction blocs -- those who want to play with the talking monkeys vs. those who want to wipe them out. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:24:59 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: IN> After Laurence Randy Finder wrote: "So who would [Baal] want as the Archangel leading this band of rebels? "I figure out of Michael and Lawrence he wants to kill at least one at the time of the armageddon." Let's ask the complementary question. Suppose Laurence could no longer be Commander of the Host -- killed, too wounded, called up to High Heaven, lost, whatever. Who should be the next Commander? Should Michael come back? (But would he be likely to, having stepped down once?) How about Khalid? (But he's barely back in from the cold.) Some other angel, elevated to Archangel for the task? (Write them up.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:09 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? In article , chris@subtlety.com (Chris Bergstresser) wrote: > Now, another question that became a real issue was grappling rules Here's some I wrote last year: If IN characters need to grab someone, this is done using a Grappling score: Fighting skill + Agility -1. A successful Grappling attack (it can be Dodged normally) means you have hold of your opponent, and their Fighting, Small Weapon, or Ranged Weapon (for pistols) attacks are at a penalty equal to your check digit. Large Weapon or Ranged Weapon for weapons larger than pistols are at a penalty of twice your check digit. You can't attack someone you've grappled without letting go of them, unless you've got an appropriate Numinous Corpus activated. GMs are encouraged to be creative with this - a Grappled target will have his Dodge reduced by the Grappling check digit against Acid, Tail, or blows from extra Arms, for example. The target's Dodge against contact attacks from third parties is reduced by the Grappling check digit. Participants in a Grappling combat don't get a Dodge against ranged weapons fired into the fight, but who gets hit is random - or at the GM's discretion. An aware target of a Grappling attack gets to attack first in the round, and the Grappling attack against him automatically fails if he scores damage with a Small Weapon or Large Weapon skill (grappling Malakim with swords from the front is unwise). Escaping from being Grappled requires winning a contest against the attacker's Grappling with your Strength or Grappling, or stunning the attacker. A grapple can be improved by making a new Grappling attack; the target's Dodge roll is at a penalty of the previous Grappling check digit. Grappling can be used in celestial combat, using Perception in place of Agility. Martial Art (name), Precision, no default A Martial Art is used to improve Fighting, or in some cases a single weapon skill - some rare martial arts schools improve both, but this requires learning and paying for two separate skills - and has a prerequisite of Fighting/6. Many schools also require a Knowledge/Philosophy or Knowledge/Religion skill at an equal or better level to the martial art. A successful roll against an appropriate Martial Art, made at the same time as a Fighting roll, adds its check digit to that of the Fighting roll, or allows a feat such as a judo throw, breaking a solid object, or otherwise spectacular accomplishment. One feat is learned at each level of the Martial Art skill; Characters and GMs will find many ideas in _GURPS Martial Arts_. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:09 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: RE: IN> Saint Albert > That seems an awful lot like flipping to the end of the mystery > before you read it to know who the murderer is. In science, if someone knows the answer you ask them. There's no prize for coming second. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:21:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Also, grappling rules? At 12:51 PM -0500 1/13/03, Chris Bergstresser wrote: > Now, another question that became a real issue was grappling rules Here's some I came up with a long time ago. Then I was told to KINS. O:> Use, abuse, have fun, they're not canon. Grappling ========= Grappling requires a contest of your Fighting skill versus your victim's Dodge skill. If you win, you have hold of your victim for rounds equal to the check digit. If you lose, you don't. Specific body parts can be grabbed, with a penalty to Fighting skill (see box); the grappler can still make attacks on following turns, but the check digit of any successful attack (even other grapples) is reduced by the check digit of the grapple, as are Dodges. Non-physical attacks, such as Songs, are not penalized if they can be performed without gestures or vocalization. If you have not incapacitated his limbs, the subject may use Fighting and Dodge skill to strike at you or block attacks. The GM may assess a penalty to the victim's skills, based on how entangling the grappler was. (Someone grabbed around the waist may have difficulty dodging, but still be able to strike at the person holding him without penalty! Someone grabbed by the weapon arm can still kick, but not use his weapon easily.) Moving around requires a contest of Strength, modified as the GM sees fit for weight and leverage. Generally, movement is halved for both participants, but if one person is strong enough or simply has enough leverage, he can drag the other around without a roll! A Strength 10 housecat can't be pried off a Strength 3 human -- but the human still outweighs the cat! Likewise, a grappled squirrel may try to escape, but cannot "dig its heels in" to prevent itself from being carried away at its assailant's full movement. >>>Box<<< Part Penalty to grapple torso -0 leg -2 (-1 if target is kicking at you) arm -2 hand -3 finger -4 >>>end box<<< Example: Fersaith, Kyriotate of Judgment in a police officer host, is attempting to arrest a Hellsworn mortal. He makes his Fighting roll with a check digit of 3, grabbing the human around the torso. The mortal fails his Dodge, so Fersaith has hold of him for 3 more rounds. Fersaith wants to handcuff the felon, which will require grabbing the target's hand -- he must make additional Fighting rolls, at a -3 for the successful grapple and an additional -3 for capturing the human's flailing hand. If his fellow officers arrive in time, they can help restrain the criminal -- who the GM rules will be at a -3 penalty to Dodge further grappling attacks. Still, the Hellsworn can attack Fersaith (or other grapplers) freely until his hands are immobilized, so the Kyriotate will have to heal his host after the fight! Example 2: Fersaith, in a collection of 5 cats, wishes to capture an Outcast. He makes Fighting rolls for each of his hosts, and four of them succeed. Two of those are Dodged, but the other two cats are clinging to the Outcast for 2 and 5 rounds, respectively. Sensibly, the Outcast decides to run away while trying to pull the cats off, and Fersaith (not having managed to grab the Outcast's legs) will be helpless to prevent this - -- until the next round, when his Corporeal Song of Charm takes effect . . . - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:28:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Industrial Accidents At 10:39 AM -0800 1/13/03, Michael Walton wrote: >--- rob scwalen wrote: >> The Demon of Industrial Accidents that i am writing >> up for my campaign, i think would work for saminga > > Ah. Then he's probably not an Impudite. OTOH, an >Impudite can't kill humans -- arranging for humans to be >killed is another matter... Actually, Impudites of Death _can_ kill -- and Impudites in general get upset if they _let_ humans be killed... - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2931 ********************************