in_nomine-digest Tuesday, January 14 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2932 In this digest: Re: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? RE: IN> About Baal's word... RE: IN> Saint Albert Re: IN> About Baal's word... IN> Bright Victory. IN> Heavenly organisation: The Music Society Re: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? Re: IN> Servitor of Gabriel attunements RE: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? IN> Sargon Demon of Alcoholism Re: IN> Heavenly organisation: The Music Society Re: IN> Bright Victory. IN> Do Word-Bound stay in one area? Re: IN> Sargon Demon of Alcoholism Re: IN> Do Word-Bound stay in one area? IN> How strong would the word of Industrial Accidents be? Re: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? Re: IN> Do Word-Bound stay in one area? IN> Baal's Word RE: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? RE: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? RE: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? Re: IN> After Laurence Re: IN> After Laurence Re: IN> About Baal's word... Re: IN> Sargon Demon of Alcoholism Words in 3 Souls (was Re: IN> Kobal on the run) RE: Words in 3 Souls (was Re: IN> Kobal on the run) Re: Words in 3 Souls (was Re: IN> Kobal on the run) IN> Sargon Demon of Alcoholism Re: IN> Sargon Demon of Alcoholism IN> Possibilty for Bright Lilim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:50:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Shih Subject: Re: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? - --- Randy Finder wrote: [snip] > I doubt very much > that the servitors of > Raphael or Oannes would object to Worthy angels > being given their word > even if not at AA status... I've got a PC whose long-term goal is to get Knowledge reassigned. Not to itself, because it believes that it's the wrong Choir for the word. But it believes that Knowledge is important enought that the Symphony needs someone to promote it full-time. (No, it's not an ex-Servitor; it fledged too late.) - -Jennifer __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:59:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Shih Subject: RE: IN> About Baal's word... - --- Chris Bergstresser wrote: > Or maybe, Baal expects another War to break out > soon after the last one > ends. After all, you don't become a chess champion > to play a single game. Armageddon, round 2: Baal versus Lucifer - -Jennifer __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:10:09 -0500 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: RE: IN> Saint Albert >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:09 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) >From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) >Subject: RE: IN> Saint Albert > >> That seems an awful lot like flipping to the end of the mystery >> before you read it to know who the murderer is. > >In science, if someone knows the answer you ask them. There's no prize for >coming second. > >- --- >John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk Well, I'm sure that many scientists would give in to the call of the Ladder and go to the Higher Heavens for the answers to their questions. Of course, the stronger-willed and more dedicated ones would try to figure it out for themselves first, then go up the Ladder to see if they were right or wrong. The group I was thinking of (the Grand Unification Theorists) would be in that category. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:12:44 -0500 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: Re: IN> About Baal's word... Quote Randy: "So who would he want as the Archangel leading this band of rebels? I figure out of Michael and Lawrence he wants to kill at least one at the time of the armageddon. Probably feel better to get rid of the overgrown Boyscout. and leave Michael out in the cold. Janus is a possibility, Most of the others don't feel quite right." If Baal allows an Archangel to survive, he'd want it to be Michael, his favored Adversary. Who else could give him a real challenge? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:11:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: IN> Bright Victory. I've found 5 chapters of a story set after bright victory @ home.earthlink.net/~cmccurry/bv1.html through bv5 . does anyone know of any other BV stories or a continuation of this? (Bright Victory is Heaven wins but Uriel and the angel of death come down and bring purity and death to earth after the armageddon) Randy - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:20 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: IN> Heavenly organisation: The Music Society Unusually, this group isn't under the aegis of any particular Superior[1]. It is, quite simply, a society for angels who like to sing. After all, many of them can do it quite well. An orchestra of singing angels, taking parts according to the instruments their choir is associated with is well, awesome. One reason that all the angelic superiors approve of it is that it's good for morale. When an angel is getting disillusioned - not dissonant, just unsure if what he's doing is worthwhile - listening to a Saturday evening concert is often just what's needed. Handel's _Messiah_ is a long-time favourite, and the old boy has stayed around to tweak the piece occasionally. It's also good for the occasional new arrival who thinks that Heaven should be more, well, reverent, and less /busy/. Naturally, it's also a good place to find Singing training, and to network more generally. This is a lot more useful than some of the more ... focussed ... Archangels realise; a chance to find out that something has gone right can be very helpful when your assignment has gone pear-shaped and six months of work has fallen to The Game or Dark Humour. On a topical note, a certain member of The Cadre (for which, see http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/cadre.html) has been working, on and off, on some verses that he couldn't manage in English, or Latin, or Quenya, but go fairly well in angelic. Wagner's music for them is a bit rough-cut at present, but he always did prefer to take thirty or so years over any really big project. [1] Novalis insists that's the case, and Eli backs her up. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:50:14 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? >That's noisy? Wow. I *must* be in unnaturally loud games. (In Casca's >Sunday game, we've hit 100 notes of disturbance, IIRC; I've *personally* >caused 20+ in a single turn, without killing a single human.) > >-EDG A hundred? Yikes. For the typical celestial, the calculation in G:IN gives a range of 2e14 *miles* at which this disturbance could be heard. You guys were mucking up the Symphony for 34 *light-years* about. Of course, three or four Superiors in a hurry would probably make at least that much noise. I guess it's not too bad. I'd probably do something to point out the effects of that much noise, though -- Tethers not working or every celestial i nthe area getting a mild headache or something. I still like the idea of a massive Disturbance drawing Grigori from all over the world, investigating. "Oh, it's you again. How's the family?" "Not bad. Little one on the way. Looks normal." "Good, good. Well, looks like they blew up whatever it was. I'll be lending a hand with clean-up -- join me?" "Already poked around with the police. See you next cataclysm." "See you." William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:31:49 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> Servitor of Gabriel attunements > > What about Malakim (and Bright Lilim) of Gabriel? Do they still only have to target whatever individual they're specifically assigned to, even if they have other Attunements? (And when does the clock start ticking on that individual? On-sight, upon receiving the assignment, or...?) > As a matter of fact, they do. That's stated more clearly in the Angelic Player's Guide. The way I'd see it, they'd be able to pick up anyone Gabriel specificly targets, and then the dissonance would hit them in days equal to their Celestial Forces AFTER they spot them, not after they're assigned. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:42:14 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: RE: IN> Canonical AA word replacements? - --- "Wajenberg, Earl" wrote: > Ta-da! A new list topic! Write up succesor Archangels > for Oannes or Raphael. Been done, at least halfway. Sirea's AA of the Rain is pretty much a successor for Oannes. I'd like to see other peoples' takes on it, though. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:47:04 -0800 (PST) From: rob scwalen Subject: IN> Sargon Demon of Alcoholism Sargon Djinn Knight of Gluttony Demon of Alcoholism Corporeal Forces:4 Strength:9 Agility:7 Ethereal Forces:4 Intelligence:8 precision:8 Celstial Forces:4 Will:10 perception:6 6 Word-Forces Vessel: Human(male)/2 Role:"Jack Daniels"Bartender/2 Status/2 Songs: Healing(Corporeal/3; Ethereal/3; Celestial/3) Numinous Corpus: Claws/2; Horns/3 Skills: Dodge/3; Driving/3; Emote/4; Fighting/3; Knowledge(Bartending)/3 Attunements:Djinn of Gluttony; Knight of Banquets; Consume; Demon of Alcoholism Special Attunements: As the Demon of Alcoholism, Sargon has the ability to make those people he is attuned to extremely violent when drunk. Special Rites: Gains two essence when he makes two or more people bindge on alcohol. Sargon is a djinn of bluttony who is a relatively young demon of only 50 years. Soon after gaining his ninth force he was assinged to Earth, where he took up resedence in Appleton, WI. He took to his work with about as much enthusiasm that could be expected from a Djinn. He used his band attunement to spot the local gluttons and made them more gluttonous. During his time on Earth he began to experiment on different foods and drinks that would be the most harmfull when consumed in great quantities. Within a few months he began to experiment with alcohol. With each successful mission, Haagenti rewarded him with more Forces. When he succeeded in promoting Gluttony in such a way that wisconsin was named one of the most obese states in the nation, Haagenti was so pleased that he gave him a tenth force as a reward. Soon after that he gaind two more additional forces when he promoted the wisconsin past-time of eating ungodly amounts of food during football games aswell as the barhopping the humans love so much. Soon after he was dubbed Knight of Banquets for his part in the advancement of the all-you-can-eat buffets in the area. After his ascent to Knighthood he became obsessed with studying the word of Alcoholism. Those humans he force to consume, he made drink lots of alcohol. After he spent some time studying the word that has entranced him so he spoke to his Prince and humbly requested his support in Sargons petition for the word of Alcoholism. When Fleurity got word of this he petitioned his own servitor just to spite his former master and because he has viewed that Alcohol sould be under the jurisdiction of Drugs, not Gluttony. Lucifer viewed the two competitors closely and saw that Sargon was much the more likely candidate for the word because of his exstensive research on the subject and that Fleurity's Candidate was no where near powerful enough to hold the word. In his corporeal vessel, Sargon resembles a well built 6' human male with a shaved head, black goatie, and dark lifeless eyes. He usually dresses in blue jeans and t-shirts that promote alcoholic drinks aswell as a lether jacket. Soon after he gained his word he took the Role of Jack Daniels bartender at McGregors pub. His word also granted him the special attunement of being able to make those humans he is attuned to extremely violent when drunk to further their slide to Hell. He also gains two essence when he succeeds in making two or more people bindge on alcohol. When in his celestial form he resemble a 9' disdainful werewolf with burning red eyes and enormous bat wings. He spends his days off almost always vegetating infront of the t.v. with a six-pack of beer and plenty of junk food near by. This is Sargon my demon of Alcoholism tell me what you think __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:47:58 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Heavenly organisation: The Music Society Hee hee! This is so stolen! =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:35:37 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Bright Victory. Randy Finder said unto us: > I've found 5 chapters of a story set after bright victory @ > home.earthlink.net/~cmccurry/bv1.html through bv5 . does anyone know of > any other BV stories or a continuation of this? > > (Bright Victory is Heaven wins but Uriel and the angel of death come down > and bring purity and death to earth after the armageddon) Amanda and I were the authors of the Bright Victory chapters. The storyline was started by a Netbook that Perry Lloyd had put up here: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/seeds/BrightVictory/beginning.html We asked Perry's permission to expand on things and it went from there. At the moment, we are putting things on hold as we're trying to clean up, tighten, edit and generally re write things. To my knowledge, there are no other stories beyond what Perry submitted but I will defer to those who know more. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:52:10 -0800 (PST) From: rob scwalen Subject: IN> Do Word-Bound stay in one area? In my campaign, my demon of industrial accidents is station in appleton,WI to promote dangerous and fatal accidents in the paper mills of the area. Would he still have the athourity of all industrial accidents or just ones that happen in paper mills? would that make him the demon of industrial accidents that happend in paper mills? by the way he is a calabite of saminga. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:53:24 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Sargon Demon of Alcoholism - --- rob scwalen wrote: > Sargon > Djinn Knight of Gluttony > Demon of Alcoholism I think that a new Force is a lot of reward for every successful mission, but other than that I like the write-up. I especially like the Demon of Alcoholism Attunement, though it might be more appropriate for a Calabite who held the Word. For a Djinn, making his victims morose drunks might be better. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:57:32 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Do Word-Bound stay in one area? - --- rob scwalen wrote: > In my campaign, my demon of industrial accidents is > station in appleton,WI to promote dangerous and fatal > accidents in the paper mills of the area. Would he > still have the athourity of all industrial accidents > or just ones that happen in paper mills? If he were the Demon of Industrial Accidents his Word would encompass those that happened anywhere on Earth (and maybe in Tartarus...). He might just have a sentimental attachment to Appleton because that's where he performed the assignment that netted him his Word, but such a powerful demon wouldn't be tied down to one city (Seneschals are an obvious exception). You could easily have a Word-bound Demon of Industrial Accidents whose beat is the world and a lesser demon, his Servitor, based in Appleton. This gives the DoIA a reason to show up from time to time, with the lesser demon as the frequent antagonist for the PC's. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:01:44 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> How strong would the word of Industrial Accidents be? >> Who would the demon serve? Vapula? > Technology gone massive amounts of Wrong and causing all sorts of > misery? Who else? Saminga. Die slow, die fast... Bah! Just DIE! > in my campaign the paper mills in the > fox valley area may have a lot of accidental > fatalities in my world. Would Love Canal count as an accident? Did the builders know that the land was toxic? (I think saw it on the History Channel.) I'm not sure why, but it reminds me of a scientist who quit his lab and took up the career of janitor. He'd move from company to company, adding carcinogens to the water coolers and coffee mugs. (And anywhere else he could get people into contact with it.) Of course, this wasn't an accident. Perhaps Murp could include things that are labled as industrial accidents. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:06:53 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? > A hundred? Yikes. For the typical celestial, the calculation in G:IN > gives a range of 2e14 *miles* at which this disturbance could be heard. > You guys were mucking up the Symphony for 34 *light-years* about. Actually, they were mucking up space-time and causality. You see, the hundred points didn't happen all at once. They were caught in Fate-engineered time rift which hurled them 12 hours back in time, and several hundred miles through space, and that happened three times. Disturbance made when you aren't native to that *time* gets, well, Disturbing... So from the Syphony's perspective, there were four instantiations of the PCs in simultaneous existence, all creating far more Disturbance than they really had a right to (a running gun battle in a supermarket, executing a pedophile with a bullet to the head, dueling a Shedite in celestial combat). It worked out to or exceeded 100 notes of Disturbance, so I used to opportunity to introduce several causal variations within the campaign world. The end result was that I could change certain key mechanics which bothered me and give a plausible reason within game why it happened. The PCs now have a phenomenon named after them. A "Sicarii Event" is any suitably Fortean (and loud!) phenomenon which has its roots in either ineffability or Superior-scale mucking about. > I still like the idea of a massive Disturbance drawing Grigori from all > over the world, investigating. Funny! - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:21:08 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Do Word-Bound stay in one area? At 2:52 PM -0800 1/13/03, rob scwalen wrote: >In my campaign, my demon of industrial accidents is >station in appleton,WI to promote dangerous and fatal >accidents in the paper mills of the area. Would he >still have the athourity of all industrial accidents >or just ones that happen in paper mills? would that >make him the demon of industrial accidents that >happend in paper mills? If he has a broad Word, he might have a home-base, but he'd want to travel and otherwise extend the influence of his Word. (Frankly, the Fleurity writeup in Superiors 4 is a very good thing to read, regarding influence and whatnot. There's also Word-bound stuff in the Infernal Player's Guide, IIRC.) If he's only Papermill Accidents, then he would only be concerned with papermills. But he'd probably have a couple of bases and travel or at least keep in touch with other concentrations of papermills. A demon (or angel) _working_ for a Word is more likely to stay put. A demon (or angel) who _has_ a Word will travel or stay put depending on what best increases the Word's power (or, angelically, what best serves the Word and Symphony). A newly Word-bound will probably want to stay near some major area that supports the Word, if for no other reason than Rite fodder. So the question is, is this character best served by staying put in one area? - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:29:19 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Baal's Word When Baal wins the War, the Word of The War will become extinct. True. Baal knows this. True. This doesn't mean that Baal plans to die with it. Remember, Baal just wants to force God to admit that Baal is right - the moment that God does this, he won't have a problem with God any more.(FT, p25) So he redeems, losing his Infernal Word. So if Hell wins, Baal takes over what's left of the Host and sweeps the Horde back into the pit...at least that'd be Baal's long term plan. Why do you think Michael still likes him? He's the only DP who has actually planned his own Redemption - and Heaven's final victory. Cheers, James ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:25:09 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Walton > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 1:44 PM > > Why Agility? That attribute applies mainly to whole-body > movement, while pulling punches is a manual dexterity (and > thus Precision) thing. I can see a case for Perception, though. Two reasons. First, Precision is more for hand-eye coordination, IMHO. Agility is grace and dexterity -- broad, fluid movements. Both seem to have a reasonable case to be made for them, so I made it the max of whichever. The second reason was the specific Cherub I was doing this for has a 12 Strength, an 8 Agility, and a 4 Precision. Basing it on Precision would have been equivalent to saying "You can't do that," which not only wasn't fun but didn't feel right. I would have averaged them but no other skills do that, and I hate math, so that was that. I *am* going to change the Will roll to resist Knockout to Strength instead, per EDG's suggestion. I was a little leery about basing so much off of Corporeal Forces, but hey -- it's brawling, after all. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:44:14 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? > -----Original Message----- > From: EDG > Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 1:10 PM > > As a note, it *is* > possible to pull a blow with a non-blunt, bladed weapon; you merely hit > with the flat of the blade, as opposed to the edge. A strictly piercing > weapon, on the other hand, such as a stiletto or a spear, is very, very > difficult to pull. > > (As a further note, there are blunt weapons which can't be pulled; a > studded or spiked mace comes to mind.) That's a good point. I was initially going to limit it solely to Fighting, then thought of all the blunt weapons *specifically made* for a quick knockout. As usual, the GM should evaluate everything on a case-by-case basis. > >KNOCKOUT > > This should probably be based on Strength. True. Consider it changed. > >Anyone got better methods? > > I'm not sure what dissatisfies you here. Using straight Strength contests for grappling wouldn't be a problem if my players didn't grapple *everything* in sight. As it is, the combat freak is the steroid-abusing Cherub who doesn't sit-people-down-for-a-little-chat so much as pick-people-up-and-dangle-them for a little chat, the Malakite serves Destiny (Oath #3: Show others the errors of their ways, not through violence, but through reason, understanding, and compassion), and the Kyriotate is just plain grabby. Combat tended towards the roll-Strength-vs-Strength, roll-Strength-vs-Strength, roll-Strength-vs-Strength, roll-Strength-vs-Strength. A little variety in the grapple rules should help straighten that out a little (Thanks Beth!) - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:52:32 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Knockout rules. Also, grappling rules? At 10:44 PM -0500 1/13/03, Chris Bergstresser wrote: [...] > Combat tended towards the roll-Strength-vs-Strength, >roll-Strength-vs-Strength, roll-Strength-vs-Strength, >roll-Strength-vs-Strength. A little variety in the grapple rules should >help straighten that out a little (Thanks Beth!) Glad to have been of use! Post how it works out? Some playtesting would hardly be amiss on it... - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:40:53 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> After Laurence - --- "Wajenberg, Earl" wrote: > Suppose > Laurence could no longer be > Commander of the Host -- killed, too wounded, called > up to High Heaven, > lost, whatever. Who should be the next Commander? Ask me a hard one: it'd obviously be Novalis.* Moe *Honest to God. But then, I already wrote something like this up, so I may be biased. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 09/18/02 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:58:46 +0800 From: Manny Nepomuceno Subject: Re: IN> After Laurence Hey, At 09:40 PM 1/13/2003 -0800, 'twas written: >--- "Wajenberg, Earl" wrote: > > Suppose > > Laurence could no longer be > > Commander of the Host -- killed, too wounded, called > > up to High Heaven, > > lost, whatever. Who should be the next Commander? > >Ask me a hard one: it'd obviously be Novalis.* > >Moe > >*Honest to God. But then, I already wrote something >like this up, so I may be biased. LOL. My answer was "Eli". Same reasons as you. ;) Manny Neps http://www.geocities.com/angeloffools ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:36:48 +0200 From: Mervi.Hamalainen@uta.fi Subject: Re: IN> About Baal's word... > On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Michael Walton wrote: > > > --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > > Or maybe Baal has a plan to keep the War going in some > > form even after Heaven's defeat. Shame about those few > > angels and that one Archangel who somehow escaped; the > > continuing quest to end their guerilla war will keep Baal > > and his demons busy while the Shal-Mari Princes are > > partying... };> > So who would he want as the Archangel leading this band of rebels? > > I figure out of Michael and Lawrence he wants to kill at least one at the > time of the armageddon. Probably feel better to get rid of the overgrown > Boyscout. and leave Michael out in the cold. Janus is a possibility, Most > of the others don't feel quite right. > > Randy And here I was wandering what to do after Armageddon. :) Laurence would a nice choice to lead the rebels. Come on, he's been shown that the demons *can* win the war and that God isn't necessarily right. Or at least He hasn't interfered on behalf of the angels. A cynical, disillusioned Laurence... and a ragtag group of angels (from Flowers, Wind and War, of course). Mervi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:22:39 +0100 From: shadur@systemec.nl (Rens Houben) Subject: Re: IN> Sargon Demon of Alcoholism In other news for Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 02:53:24PM -0800, Michael Walton has been seen typing: > For a Djinn, making his > victims morose drunks might be better. Yeah, but in the grand scheme of things the morose drunks aren't nearly as bad an evil as the ones that get beligerent one way or another. ... On that note, I'd have to guess that this demon would get some stiff (if you'll pardon the pun) competition from the Impudite of Fate that managed to ruin the careers and social lives of hundreds of people by introducing them to booze and letting their natural tendencies do the rest, resulting in a small but significant increase in spousal abuse cases, accidents involving DUI (preferably the non-fatal kind; it's so much more soul-destroying for one party to be permanently consigned to a wheelchair and the other with a permanent blot on their record and the aforementioned ruined social life), and the one time where he was in the right place and the right time with a little help from a Habbalite to turn a post-football-victory celebration into a brawl and thence a citywide riot... "And what did you do?" "*grunt* Got smashed with a bunch of other drunks." "... I see." - -- Rens Houben | opinions are mine Resident linux guru and sysadmin | if my employers have one Systemec Internet Services. |they'll tell you themselves PGP public key at http://swordbreaker.systemec.nl/shadur.key.asc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:17:55 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Words in 3 Souls (was Re: IN> Kobal on the run) "Wajenberg, Earl" wrote: > Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > > > > Princes and archangels have that status because they have *huge* > > amounts of Word-machinery, so it's hard for a Prince to run > > without losing his or her word. A lesser word-bound might manage > > it, if they were able to hide their Word connection.... > > Can a Wordbound strip themselves of their Word, then? (Not that this > would be a common thing to try.) Yes, definitely. When the instrumentation is either destroyed or reattuned, the old celestial still survives. And the old word-holder retains a great deal of knowledge about how the system works. For example, the angels of the Wind hold an annual competition to determine who will be the archangel for the upcoming year. In addition to upholding the spirit of the Wind, it also gives them a large pool of experienced angels in case the current Janus falls in battle. > Is the "machinery" of the Word in any sense tangible? E.g., is > there this huge, roiling cloud of rubber chickens, Groucho glasses, > grinning masks, and joy-buzzers that Kobal has to maintain and could > not readily take with him if he ran away? Yes, the machinery is tangible, because I want to enable players to mess with it. If someone wants to sabotage the instrumentalities of Freedom, kill Lilith, and become the new Prince (or Princess), I want there to be a relatively clear set of mechanics for resolving this. In Briah and Sheol -- Heaven and Hell -- all fundamental physics runs along musical lines. This is why angels and demons have a big musical metaphor: for them, it's not a metaphor. Essence is measured in notes (of music!), and by literally singing Songs the celestials can transform the universe. A word might be better named a Theme, because that's just what they are, and a Theme can affect any part of the Symphony that is in resonance with it. However, you actually need some "sound" in order to create the resonance, and that's what the instrumentality for each Theme provides. How the machinery is perceived is flexible; the underlying reality of Briah and Sheol is harmonic, but it gets interpreted on all five senses. The result is dependent on the Word itself. Eg, Technology's instrumentalities originally manifested as huge evil machinery with whirling gears and blades and steam engines. For a later Price, it was replaced with giant sparking electric generators and van de Graaf generators, and for the current Prince of Technology it manifests as an alien techno-organic complex. I'm not entirely sure what Kobal's Theme looks like. Your image is a good one (which I am sure to steal), but the difficulty is that I want the actions that the PCs take to destroy or control it to make sense in the context of their location within it. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:43:38 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: Words in 3 Souls (was Re: IN> Kobal on the run) Neel Krishnaswami wrote: "For example, the angels of the Wind hold an annual competition to determine who will be the archangel for the upcoming year. In addition to upholding the spirit of the Wind, it also gives them a large pool of experienced angels in case the current Janus falls in battle." So "Janus" is a title, not an individual name, and the Archangelship is elective? *That*'s an interesting departure from canon. > Is the "machinery" of the Word in any sense tangible? "Yes, the machinery is tangible, because I want to enable players to mess with it." This makes any Wordbound a little like a classic dragon or a Tolkienian Ringbearer, possessed of a treasure they are addicted to -- at least I'd suppose so. Apparently, the holder of Wind is not very possessive; are Worded celestials not so much WordBOUND as WordHOLDERS in your game? ("Here, I'm tired of this Word. You do it for a while.") "In Briah and Sheol -- Heaven and Hell -- all fundamental physics runs along musical lines." I recognize "Briah" from the kabbalistic lore of GURPS Cabal. Is the Ethereal Plane "Yetzirah," the Corporeal Plane "Assiah," and Upper Heaven "Atziloth"? "I'm not entirely sure what Kobal's Theme looks like. Your image is a good one (which I am sure to steal), but the difficulty is that I want the actions that the PCs take to destroy or control it to make sense in the context of their location within it." Thank you. If this stuff has to be musical, perhaps the current manifestation of Dark Humor (which I often call Mockery; it's punchier) is a Harpo-Marx-style squeeze-horn, or a jester's baton tipped with a head wearing a cap with bells. (This being *Dark* Humor, the head might be ... oh, I'm sure you can fill in the blank.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:56:01 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: Words in 3 Souls (was Re: IN> Kobal on the run) From: "Wajenberg, Earl" > > This being *Dark* Humor, the head might be ... Morden's? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:50:52 -0800 (PST) From: rob scwalen Subject: IN> Sargon Demon of Alcoholism this question is to all who saw my extended write up for my demon of alcoholism. It said in his background he gained forces more often then not as rewards, what would you suggest would be a more appropriate reward for service? Or in additions two the Force rewards that elevated him to a 12 Force demon? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:35:46 -0800 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> Sargon Demon of Alcoholism >>what would you suggest would be a more appropriate reward for service? Generally for demons an appropriate reward is being allowed to live. For exceptional service, new Attunements and Distinctions are possible. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:57:17 -0800 From: "Phillip DesJardins" Subject: IN> Possibilty for Bright Lilim I've been thinking, and it kinda bothers me that Lilim don't change when they redeem. I dunno, it just seems to me that having their natures changed from fundamentally selfish to fundamentally selfless would alter their resonance and dissonance conditions. With that in mind I wrote this. Originally for Counterpoint, my own efforts at IN done backwards, but it works for canon IN as well. Lilim The Gifters I saw him, sitting at the end of the bar, nursing a drink he'd been at all night. Everyone else was ignoring him, but I'd caught his eye once or twice. Just enough to know. I walked over and sat down next to him. He didn't complain. I decided to cut to the chase. "You look like a man who needs a friend." When a Lilim redeems they change, same as any other demon. They lose the ability to Geas individuals, but their sensitivity to Needs becomes much more refined. They remain Heaven's deal-makers, but their new dissonance conditions make it impossible for them to keep their old methods. Resonance The Lilim resonance is for Needs: they can look at someone and tell, at the very least, what it is that the person believes they most Need at the moment. A perceptive Lilim can tell more, up to and including whether or not the person is better off without it. On Earth they act as the deal-makers of Heaven, giving people a reason to work with them. Dissonance Being born in the concept of freedom, coersion is Dissonant for them. They may not attempt to force someone to take a deal that is being offered, nor may they attempt to rig things so that it's the only option they have. To do so would be to betray both Heaven and their mother. Manner and Appearance In Celestial form, a Lilim typically appears as their favored vessel, with a faint halo and wings of light. Unlike most Celestials they do have a distinct gender identity for the most part, with most of them choosing to emulate their mother in taking female form. Many choose not to, but enough emulate female forms on Earth that the Choir as a whole are thought of as females for the most part. Ironically group-oriented for creaures of freedom, the Lilim naturally keep an eye on others, trying to find what is most needed in the lives of their friends. No other Choir paricularly has a problem with them as a whole, and they return the sentiment. Musically, the Lilim tend to look for whatever's missing at the moment, so that the Symphony can be at its' most complete. Game Mechanics The Lilim resonance is notably different in Counterpoint than it is in canonical In Nomine, and this is with reason. In IN Lilith is a Princess, and this is reflected in her Daughters. In Counterpoint Lilith is an Archangel, and so her children would have been created from a different standpoint. With a look into the subject's eyes and a successful resonance roll, a Lilim can gain information on the subject's Need at that moment. With high enough check digits, information can be gained as to the easiest way to fulfill that need, or to convince the subject to do it themselves. Lilim Resonance Check Digit Chart 1 You know what it is they feel they Need most at that particular moment. 2 You know what they feel they Need most at that moment, and what it is they do Need most at that moment. 3 You know that, and also why it is that they Need it, and how dire the need is. 4 You know the above, and how to go about getting it for them. 5 You know the above, as well as what would be the best way for them to get it for themselves. 6 You know all of the above, and whether or not it would truly help the person or not in the long run. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2932 ********************************