in_nomine-digest Wednesday, January 22 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2940 In this digest: IN> The word of Darkness? Re: IN> The INverse heirarchy? RE: IN> The word of Darkness? Re: IN> The INverse heirarchy? Re: IN> INverse Submission; Novalis, Djinn Princess of Twilight Re: IN> Wrongs. IN> RE: Dark Knights Re: IN> RE: Dark Knights Re: IN> Possibilty for Bright Lilim Re: IN> INverse Submission; Novalis, Djinn Princess of Twilight RE: IN> INverse Submission; Novalis, Djinn Princess of Twilight Re: IN> The Place: Arisia. Re: IN> Campaign Names. Re: IN> Satans Son Re: IN> Fighting and Dodge Re: IN> The word of Darkness? RE: IN> Satans Son Re: IN> Satans Son Re: IN> Fighting and Dodge Re: IN> Fighting and Dodge Re: IN> Campaign Names. RE: IN> Satans Son IN> RE: [fic] Leather bar (was 'more photographs in time') IN> RE: [fic] Leather bar (was 'more photographs in time') IN> RE: [fic] Leather bar (was 'more photographs in time') IN> A Discord for all those Outcast Malakim out there... Re: IN> Possibilty for Bright Lilim Re: IN> Fighting and Dodge IN> Satan, who? Re: IN> The Place: Arisia. IN> Celestial Relic: Vampire's Ease Re: IN> Satan, who? Re: IN> Satan, who? Re: IN> Celestial Relic: Vampire's Ease Re: IN> Satan, who? Re: IN> Satan, who? Re: IN> Satan, who? Re: IN> Satan, who? Alternate view of Celestials (Was Re: IN> Satan, who?) Re: Alternate view of Celestials (Was Re: IN> Satan, who?) IN> Who is Batman? (part 2 of ?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:33:25 -0800 (PST) From: rob scwalen Subject: IN> The word of Darkness? I apologize if this is a repeat of a former question i cant remember, Would the Word of Darkness be held by a Prince or would it be the word of Lucifer himself considering the possiblity that his word would be opposite of the word he once held? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:38:39 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> The INverse heirarchy? Hi, You can find all info about the INverse setting here: http://www.pvv.org/~solas/inverse/index.html - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:38:50 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> The word of Darkness? rob scwalen wrote: "I apologize if this is a repeat of a former question i cant remember, Would the Word of Darkness be held by a Prince or would it be the word of Lucifer himself considering the possiblity that his word would be opposite of the word he once held?" There is no canonical answer. Speculation as to Lucifer's current Word crops up on the list from time to time. Darkness, Negation, Evil, Pride, Selfishness, and Lies have all been proposed, along with the idea that he has no particular Word but, as someone who can grant Words, can pick up and use any Word he wants to. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:05:38 -0800 From: "Phillip DesJardins" Subject: Re: IN> The INverse heirarchy? Just read the INverse setting. It's good work. Actually, what I find funny is that where your version is bleaker, mine (counterpoint) is by default much higher contrast than canonical IN. I think it's because the core book was written from a distinctly low-contrast frame of mind in the first place. I also noticed a lot of similarities on Word Choices between the two of us. Though I suppose that's got a lot to do with a) Some ideas are fairly obvious and b) the subject comes up a lot and we're thieving monkey gamers who like other people's ideas. Phillip, Impudite of Novalis The Happy Shiny Mercurian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:44:45 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> INverse Submission; Novalis, Djinn Princess of Twilight Some good stuff here. I rather like the Dissonance condition, but I think that the Invocation Modifiers could use some work. Some specific comments: - --- Joey's mail wrote: > Balseraphs-Balseraphs serving Novalis emit an aura of > darkness-these demons > may make a Will roll to hide symphonic disturbance, at a > penalty for ever note of disturbance. Similar to canonical Skulkers, IOW. > Djinn (Restricted)-Twilight envelops these Stalkers, > keeping them from > sight-they may sing the Corporeal Song of Shadows at no > essence cost when > they are following the subject of an attunement. Quite good, this. > Calabim (Restricted)-Novalis's Destroyers are comfortable > in the > darkness-after sunset, the Discord they take at the > beginning of the game is reduced by their Celestial > Forces. That's a big reduction, though not without precedent (see canon Calabite of Fate). > Malakim-Novalis's Malakim have the ability to manipulate > shadow, making it semi-solid. This strikes me as being too unsubtle for Novalis' purported methods. > Dark Lilim (Restricted)-These Dark Tempters work from the > safety of > Darkness-if they fulfill someone's needs without their > knowledge, they can > use an intermediary, often a Soldier or servant, to > collect their Geas for > them, allowing them to work without being seen. _Very_ nice. > Shedim (Restricted)-Shedim of Twilight can possess a > person's shadow instead > of the person themselves; this allows them to stay with a > Host while > corrupting it only twice per week instead of once per > day, although it can't > control the host's actions. Instead, with a Will roll, > they can give the > Host a dark suggestion, which the Host will then fulfill > if he fails to resist. Another way to go with this is to have the Shedite corrupt other people's perception of the Host by doing things behind the Host's back (picking pockets, copping feels, etc.). A lot of people respond to such defamation by conforming to the image. > The Quiet-A servitor with this attunement may spend one > essence, become > completely still, and become a shadow. The name doesn't seem to fit, but the Attunement works. Playing the Ethereal Song of Form w/o Disturbance might be a simpler way to go about this. > Knight of Shadow-Novalis's Knights can inspire calm in > any human they speak with for more than five minutes This seems more apathy-based than shadowy, IMO. Or does this version of Novalis take apathy as part of her Word? > Baron of Impending Doom-Barons of Twilight can keep ANY > human calm no matter > what is going on-they will simply be quiet and calm, and > not react. And how does this relate to impending doom? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:48:55 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Wrongs. OK, these I can use! =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:09:54 -0800 (PST) From: Vaughn Romero Subject: IN> RE: Dark Knights Michael Walton comments: > [applause] Me and the Joker share at least one thing in common: We both pander to praise. Thanks. Ya know, that reminds me. I should really applaud the person who posted the new Bright Lilim resonances. I liked those. I send my belated essence. > Of course Kobal would want to be the Joker. He's all > right until Michael decides to play Batman... I've been thinking about IN Batman, and Michael (the Archangel not Mr. Walton) seemed an obvious choice - too obvious. So being the underdog rooting man that I am, I picked another to play the part. I have the ending for the story I want to write, but not that pesky introduction and tension-building middle piece. For those who can't wait, I did include a teaser/clue describing my choice of Batman in the first story. Essence to those who can guess it. Even more essence for the person who guesses it and writes their own story. - -Vaughn P.S. Someday I'll post my reasons why Gandalf is actually Yves. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:46:18 -0800 From: "Phillip DesJardins" Subject: Re: IN> RE: Dark Knights > Ya know, that reminds me. I should really applaud the > person who posted the new Bright Lilim resonances. I > liked those. I send my belated essence. > As the writer, I thank you. I thought it would be cool for them to have something that gives them a similar modus apparandi (sp?) as before, but done from a new angle. The fact that they actually have to -help- the person and get them to agree to things changes matters a lot, I think. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:06:06 -0800 From: "Phillip DesJardins" Subject: Re: IN> Possibilty for Bright Lilim > I do have to wonder, though, how you dealt with how the Choir > resonance interacted with the Superior Resonance? As written, this > feels remarkably like the existing Yves bright Lilim resonance (if > memory serves, Brights can tell if fulfilling a Need will bring the > individual closer to destiny. Well, the CD 6 just tells you if it will help them in the long run, ie make their lives better. Destiny isn't -always- the same thing. Sometimes people need to not get what they want in order to reach to their destinies. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:43:06 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> INverse Submission; Novalis, Djinn Princess of Twilight > > > Baron of Impending Doom-Barons of Twilight can keep ANY > > human calm no matter > > what is going on-they will simply be quiet and calm, and > > not react. > > And how does this relate to impending doom? > Hm, good point. Perhaps a nime shift to "Baron of Calm in the Face of Impending Doom..." but that's too wordy... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:42:53 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: RE: IN> INverse Submission; Novalis, Djinn Princess of Twilight How about "Gently into that good night" as in "Do not go gently into that good night, Rage Rage against the dying of the light." by Dylan Thomas Novalis does not want people to rage against the dying of the light... > -----Original Message----- > From: Joey's mail [mailto:jh1blev@comcast.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 6:43 PM > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> INverse Submission; Novalis, Djinn Princess > of Twilight > > > > > > > > Baron of Impending Doom-Barons of Twilight can keep ANY > > > human calm no matter > > > what is going on-they will simply be quiet and calm, and > > > not react. > > > > And how does this relate to impending doom? > > > > Hm, good point. Perhaps a nime shift to "Baron of Calm in the Face of > Impending Doom..." but that's too wordy... > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:27:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Place: Arisia. At 9:46 PM -0800 1/20/03, Maurice Lane wrote: >--- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> But Moe was saying he'd run something! Well, we'll >> think of something... > >Well, we have to be fair about that: I'm sure that >Beth would like to actually PLAY a PC. Of course, >anybody who GM doesn't get to be a PC, which is a very >real problem. On the other hand, if you sucker me into running again, you don't have to fear my Kyriotate of Flowers munchkin. O:> >This is one of the better ideas I've heard for >cloning. >:) That, and babysitting. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:34:29 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Campaign Names. At 8:29 AM +0800 1/21/03, Janet Anderson wrote: >Campaigns have to have a name? First I've heard of it. O:> (Let's see... We had... "The Space Game" which turned into "The Artemis Campaign" and "The Albatross Group"/"The Scruffy Traders Game". Then there's, "Our Boston Game," our first IN game, and I'm running "The GURPS IN Yrth Game"... Oh, and "IN IOU" and "The Amnesia Game" which actually has a name but I can't tell anyone because it would give away the plot and SOMEDAY I WANT TO FINISH IT. *sniff*) - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:35:30 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Satans Son At 8:15 AM -0500 1/21/03, BC Petery wrote: >>> If Satan did sire a child using the song of fruition would it really be the >>> anti-christ or would it just be another soldier? >> >> Totally a GM call > >So the GM gets to screw up the plans of Lucifer himself? Seen on a button and heartily adopted for personal use: I don't worship Satan. Satan is my little NPC. 'Nuff said. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:38:05 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fighting and Dodge At 10:57 AM -0500 1/21/03, cpetr@swbell.net wrote: >While looking through the FAQs, I ran across the addendum stating that >(STR+CorpF+Fighting) is the new formula for hand to hand combat. Wouldn't >it stand to reason that in hand to hand combat, Dodge (Corporeal) would >also be (AGL+CorpF+Dodge)? You'd think, but not only No, but Master-of-the-Armies-of-God-NO. Why? Because vessels have too many frippin' Body hits on the high end -- you get a couple of combat monsters going at it, and you DO NOT want to be able to match check digits with Dodge. (Likewise, you don't want to make the GM worry about cover or lines of fire or other things, which is why Ranged Weapon does NOT get a Corporeal Forces bonus. Realistic? Probably not. Easier on the GM? Blessed right.) - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:40:24 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The word of Darkness? At 9:33 AM -0800 1/21/03, rob scwalen wrote: >I apologize if this is a repeat of a former question i >cant remember, Would the Word of Darkness be held by a >Prince or would it be the word of Lucifer himself >considering the possiblity that his word would be >opposite of the word he once held? I think this is in the archives somewhere, actually. The general consensus is that if Lucifer has a Word, no one is sure what it is. He is often _called_ a Prince of Darkness -- but that may just be an honorific, instead of a Word. No one's going to know, probably, unless he elevates a Prince with that Word, which would _suggest_ that it wasn't his. Or suggest that he had that Prince sufficiently under his thumb as to not mind sharing it (as per shared Words in the Game Master's Guide...). So this boils down to another GM call. O:> - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:47:11 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Satans Son Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Seen on a button and heartily adopted for personal use: > > I don't worship Satan. Satan is my little NPC. Seen on a series of buttons: 668: The Neighbor of the Beast 666B: The Tenant of the Beast 1-800-666-0666: The Toll-Free Number of the Beast 666.1: The Upgrade of the Beast Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:06:24 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Satans Son From: "Wajenberg, Earl" > > 1-800-666-0666: The Toll-Free Number of the Beast 29A: The Hexidecimal of the Beast ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:08:47 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> Fighting and Dodge One of my players asked -- what is the reasoning behind adding Corporeal Forces to a characters fighting ability? All other skills are merely skill + stat. Was this to make combat faster? And why not guns, too? (ETH + Pre + Skill). Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:34:34 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Fighting and Dodge At 03:08 PM 1/21/2003 -0700, Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: >One of my players asked -- what is the reasoning behind adding Corporeal >Forces to a characters fighting ability? All other skills are merely skill >+ stat. Was this to make combat faster? And why not guns, too? (ETH + Pre >+ Skill). This is probably a non-canon answer. (IOW, IMC, IMO, YMMV.) Corporeal Forces measure how solid you are to the corporeal world. This is why they factor into your Body hit calculations. A more solid thing hits things harder. Therefore, a character with 4 Corporeal Forces is going to be more solid - and therefore hit things harder - than a character with 2 Corporeal Forces. This is why Corporeal Forces factor into your Fighting and Large Weapon attack rolls. So why don't they factor into anything else? A more solid thing is more difficult to move. Therefore, a character with 4 Corporeal Forces is going to be more difficult to move than a character with 2 Corporeal Forces. Now, the only other skill based on Strength that I can find is Running (and even that is only sometimes based on Strength). All of the other corporeal skills are based on Agility - and Running and any Agility-based skill involve moving the body. Since something with more Corporeal Forces is a) more solid, and b) more difficult to move, there should, by rights, be a *penalty* to these rolls. But, since target numbers are already low enough (for humans, anyway), the designers decided to make this a gimme. (Having more of a mind doesn't make your bullets more solid or your aim more sure. That's why Ethereal Forces don't bump Ranged or Small Weapon use.) - -EDG you and your "facts" and your "physics". Pah, I say. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:38:43 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Campaign Names. > At 8:29 AM +0800 1/21/03, Janet Anderson wrote: > >Campaigns have to have a name? > > First I've heard of it. O:> I name all my games. My first IN game was "Dies Illa" and had to do with Eli being caught and sentenced. My second, and still running since '99, is "Victims of Our Own Ontology". The vampire game that I'm starting is called "All the Pretty Monsters". I once tried my had at an Amber PBEM titled "Now All Her Princes, Come Home At Last", which is unwieldy yet still cool because it's taken from Shakespeare. Really, if you're gong to title a campaign, your best bet is to steal from a quality source. The Bible, Shakespeare and similar playwrights, classical authors... song lyrics work too, but they're trickier, because you have to integrate the campaign mood with the genre of the music, what the lyrics seem to say, and what they actually say. Now I'm sufficiently nutso that not only have I titled the campaign, but I've given names (and moods) to each "season", as if it were a long-running TV show a la Babylon 5. - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:55:24 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Satans Son At 4:47 PM -0500 1/21/03, Wajenberg, Earl wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> Seen on a button and heartily adopted for personal use: >> I don't worship Satan. Satan is my little NPC. > > >Seen on a series of buttons: > >668: The Neighbor of the Beast >666B: The Tenant of the Beast >1-800-666-0666: The Toll-Free Number of the Beast >666.1: The Upgrade of the Beast And then there was the one which was something like 67D: The Beast Hexed Me! Took me a beat to get, and then I giggled, much to the button-wearer's delight. (I also chortled at "My wife went to Vorbarr Sultana and all I got was this bloody shopping bag." O:> ) - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:49:05 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: IN> RE: [fic] Leather bar (was 'more photographs in time') At 04:31 PM 20/01/2003 -0500, you wrote: >>Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:22:39 -0600 >>Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["Genevieve Cogman" ] > >>From: "Genevieve Cogman" >>Subject: Re: IN> [fiction] more Photographs in Time > >>-----Original Message----- >>>Warnings for sexual situations, probably language (though I don't >>>remember), and just horrible, horrible wrongness. > >> >>I just snickered my head off. Thank you _very_ much. ;) Thank YOU! I shall have to remember to be wrong more often. ^_~ Harukami - ---- "I wish I knew what we were being kept so long *for*..." [To be concluded when the Malakim come knocking.] Just then, there is a knock on the door. [.........I hate you so much. ^^] http://haru_in.tripod.com/ Haru's IN page: Game logs, art, and fiction. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:49:57 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: IN> RE: [fic] Leather bar (was 'more photographs in time') >> "So an Archangel Walked into a Leather Bar..." > > !!! Oh, this is just wrong, wrong, wrong! Haru, I want >some of whatever you've been smoking! }:> ^^ Thank you kindly. ...and certainly! It's fondly known as "Fleurity's Secret Stash". ^_~ Harukami - ---- "I wish I knew what we were being kept so long *for*..." [To be concluded when the Malakim come knocking.] Just then, there is a knock on the door. [.........I hate you so much. ^^] http://haru_in.tripod.com/ Haru's IN page: Game logs, art, and fiction. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:52:46 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: IN> RE: [fic] Leather bar (was 'more photographs in time') (Can anyone tell I'm catching up? [coughs]) >And the Leatherbar one is funny, too -- if it was on the list, I think >I missed it, first time around... *giggle* Thanks! And no, I never sent it out to the list; I wrote it before I was on-list and until I got to know everyone better I was a little embarrassed about, you know, sending out a link of Laurence + leather bar + Andre = fic ^_~ Harukami - ---- "I wish I knew what we were being kept so long *for*..." [To be concluded when the Malakim come knocking.] Just then, there is a knock on the door. [.........I hate you so much. ^^] http://haru_in.tripod.com/ Haru's IN page: Game logs, art, and fiction. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:43:39 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> A Discord for all those Outcast Malakim out there... Pacifist (Ethereal) A celestial with Pacifist eschews violence; this Discord essentially provides the little voice in the back of the character's head that tells him that there's always a better way. Anyone with this Discord must roll Will at a penalty equal to the level of the Discord to condone a violent action, and must roll at a penalty equal to *twice* the Discord level in order to actually commit a violent action (including *any* attack). The check digit of a successful Will roll indicates the number of rounds the resistance lasts. In addition, an angel with this Discord may not resist either the Seraph of Flowers attunement or the Crown of Joy attunement. Demons may resist, but at a penalty equal to the Discord level. GMs are encouraged to enforce this Discord whenever appropriate. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:05:58 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Possibilty for Bright Lilim At 1:06 PM -0800 1/21/03, Phillip DesJardins wrote: > > I do have to wonder, though, how you dealt with how the Choir >> resonance interacted with the Superior Resonance? As written, this >> feels remarkably like the existing Yves bright Lilim resonance (if >> memory serves, Brights can tell if fulfilling a Need will bring the >> individual closer to destiny. > > Well, the CD 6 just tells you if it will help them in the long run, ie >make their lives better. Destiny isn't -always- the same thing. Sometimes >people need to not get what they want in order to reach to their destinies. The long run, I would think, is very different from an Angelic perspective than it is from a mortal one. It seems to me, that doing something that helps assure an individual of getting into heaven, which is to say, lending them help that extends beyond their mortal life, is a reasonable definition of an angels Long Term Help. I would like to know, though, is what Lilim get as a Destiny attunement, in your version. Ping me privately, in any case, we have much to discuss. Possibly over coffee. My mother once said That boy is stranger than a three toed barking frog - -Daiv David M. Barr daiv@cruzio.com YIM Daivbear AIM Drnknmstrhkugk H (831)477-0539 C (831)566-2237 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:19:25 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> Fighting and Dodge > You'd think, but not only No, but Master-of-the-Armies-of-God-NO. > > Why? > > Because vessels have too many frippin' Body hits on the high end -- you > get a couple of combat monsters going at it, and you DO NOT want to be > able to match check digits with Dodge. > > (Likewise, you don't want to make the GM worry about cover or lines of > fire or other things, which is why Ranged Weapon does NOT get a Corporeal > Forces bonus. Realistic? Probably not. Easier on the GM? Blessed right.) > I don't even bother adding Corporeal forces to the fighting roles; the fighting skill is MORE than enough for most rolls. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:15:42 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: IN> Satan, who? I just thought of something... Is there actually a Satan, as such, in IN? I recognize that a lot of people (in game and in real life) use the names more or less interchangeably, but if memory serves, historically and mythologically, they are two distinct individuals, who may or may not have a common cultural ancestry. Assuming that i am correct (stranger things have happened) and there are two of them, then while Lucifer is leading the dark hosts of Hell, there may be a pumped up Ethereal out there, cloven hooves and forked tail and red skin and all... what sort of arrangement would the two of them have come to, if any? When people worship The Devil, who gets the essence? I need coffee. the exquisite pain shrill scream of the dentists drill cute assistant though - -Daiv David M. Barr daiv@cruzio.com YIM Daivbear AIM Drnknmstrhkugk H (831)477-0539 C (831)566-2237 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:26:05 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> The Place: Arisia. At 4:27 PM -0500 1/21/03, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >>This is one of the better ideas I've heard for >>cloning. >>:) > >That, and babysitting. > > Nah, have you not seen Mindy and Buttons? The baby sitter gets cloned. The baby gets cloned. The baby sitter loses his hat. It never works out. OB IN... How about an Artifact that creates an exact duplicate of the subject? Since most pop culture images of cloning seem to have to do with creating an exact replica of a person, i have the image of this thing appearing in the marches, an Artifact of Etheral origin. god of tech support drunken master haiku geek butterfly victim - -Daiv David M. Barr daiv@cruzio.com YIM Daivbear AIM Drnknmstrhkugk H (831)477-0539 C (831)566-2237 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:34:01 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: IN> Celestial Relic: Vampire's Ease Hi all -- Comments, as always, appreciated. Celestial Relic: Vampire's Ease Typically found in the form of a ring, necklace, or bracelet, these relics have the effect of reducing the bearer's Need by a level equal to its own. A vampire with a Need/3 (Blood) wearing a Vampire's Ease/2 would recover Essence as if he only had a Need/1, while with a Vampire's Ease/4 would obviate his Need for blood entirely. This is not without its downside. Should the bearer ever become separated from the relic, he is obligated to repay all the Essence he regained through its use. There are three ways to do this. The simplest is simply to spend the Essence. The next is to have enough of the Need on hand to restore balance -- if the vampire went without blood for a week, he must consume a week's worth of blood upon removing the ring. These methods can be combined: the vampire could spend 4 Essence and consume 3 days worth of blood to meet the requirements. Should he be unable or unwilling to do the above, he suffers Soul Hits equal to the remaining unpaid Essence. For a vampire who has gone for weeks without his Need, this is effectively death. These relics are extremely rare. Vampires find them the most useful, although anyone with a Need can benefit from one. Saminga doesn't see much use for them -- undead are disposable anyway -- so they are usually found in the possession of the undead in service to other Superiors. Most vampires use them as a kind of safety net, rarely going more than a day or two before catching back up. Those undead who find fulfilling their Need particularly distasteful (frequently those who now serve angelic Superiors) often choose instead never to remove it. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:39:59 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: Re: IN> Satan, who? > I just thought of something... Is there actually a Satan, as >such, in IN? Oddly enough, the name 'Satan' was originaly a title - Ha-Shatan (If I remember the spelling correctly; my angel-lore books are currently not by my computer.). It means 'The Accuser', and seemed to be a title of office for a *Heavenly* angel. Of course, when you dig into the Heavenly lore, half the demons in Hell were actually angels doing God's bidding. And I'm not talking about the malache habbalah - though they were included *specifically* as God's Punishing Angels in Hell. In fact, depending on how you read the texts, the Lord of Hell himself is still working for God, though there's many different interpretations. Frankly, the description of the office of ha-shatan seems to best fit *Dominic*. .....Which I'm sure more than one of Michael's boys has decided to point out to Judges as an insult. Harukami - ---- "I wish I knew what we were being kept so long *for*..." [To be concluded when the Malakim come knocking.] Just then, there is a knock on the door. [.........I hate you so much. ^^] http://haru_in.tripod.com/ Haru's IN page: Game logs, art, and fiction. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:08:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher Anthony" Subject: Re: IN> Satan, who? Daiv said: > I just thought of something... Is there actually a Satan, as > such, in IN? He's not canon, but IMO he should be: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/servitors/Satan.htm - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:25:11 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Relic: Vampire's Ease > Those undead who find fulfilling their Need particularly > distasteful (frequently those who now serve angelic Superiors) often choose > instead never to remove it. Why would an undead want to serve an angelic Superior? And what angelic Superior would want one? (Okay, maybe Michael ...) Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:19:44 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Satan, who? - --- Christopher Anthony wrote: > Daiv said: > > > I just thought of something... Is there actually > a Satan, as > > such, in IN? > > He's not canon, but IMO he should be: Why, thank you. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/21/03 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:28:52 -0400 From: pbarkow@hfx.eastlink.ca Subject: Re: IN> Satan, who? On 21 Jan 2003 at 20:39, Harukami wrote: > > I just thought of something... Is there actually a Satan, as > >such, in IN? > > Oddly enough, the name 'Satan' was originaly a title - Ha-Shatan (If I > remember the spelling correctly; my angel-lore books are currently not > by my computer.). It means 'The Accuser', and seemed to be a title of > office for a *Heavenly* angel. Of course, when you dig into the Moe Lane did Satan, Angel of Temptation IIRC. *checks* Here we are: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/servitors/Sata n.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:01:22 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Satan, who? > Assuming that i am correct (stranger things have happened) >and there are two of them, then while Lucifer is leading the dark >hosts of Hell, there may be a pumped up Ethereal out there, cloven >hooves and forked tail and red skin and all... what sort of >arrangement would the two of them have come to, if any? When people >worship The Devil, who gets the essence? > I need coffee. Other people have mentioned the Satan thing, so I'll just comment on the Ethereal: just as divine religions don't produce Ethereals, neither does devil-worship. Any Ethereal that comes close enough to the real thing disappears (gets absorbed into the real thing?). If people do Devil-worship, I imagine that, if Essence goes anywhere, it goes to Lucifer. Though if their idea of the Devil is close enough to, say, Baal or Asmodeus (and I bet there are more than a few lame "Satanist" cults that are right up Kobal's alley) I figure the Essence might go to those Princes instead. William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:05:52 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Satan, who? Though if their idea of the Devil is close enough to, say, Baal >or Asmodeus (and I bet there are more than a few lame "Satanist" cults that >are right up Kobal's alley) I figure the Essence might go to those Princes >instead. > There is the canonical example of Baal's Canaanite fertility cult. Bet Novalis just loved that one. And Mammon locked in the souls that were sold during life. Though the idea of Kobal setting up Satanist cults, especially in case of a Heavenly Satan, would be perfect. As for the others, hmm... so long as the Princes don't interfere when the cults start up, is there a good chance of the cultists opening up tethers? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:19:22 -0800 From: "Phillip DesJardins" Subject: Alternate view of Celestials (Was Re: IN> Satan, who?) > Other people have mentioned the Satan thing, so I'll just comment on the > Ethereal: just as divine religions don't produce Ethereals, neither does > devil-worship. Any Ethereal that comes close enough to the real thing > disappears (gets absorbed into the real thing?). If people do > Devil-worship, I imagine that, if Essence goes anywhere, it goes to > Lucifer. Actually, I've always liked playing it that Celestials simply don't get worship Essence. My idea is that Celestials represent a different order of being from Ethereals entirely, and that where an Ethereal can get Essence and indeed derives sustenance from just being believed in, Celestials need to actively promote a concept in the Symphony in order to further their causes. I like it mainly because it makes the two groups have different goals to begin with, and because of some of the lines it promotes: "You don't believe in demons, eh? Cute." Phillip, Mercurian of Novalis The Happy Shiny Mercurian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:51:34 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: Alternate view of Celestials (Was Re: IN> Satan, who?) At 10:19 PM -0800 1/21/03, Phillip DesJardins wrote: > > Other people have mentioned the Satan thing, so I'll just comment on the >> Ethereal: just as divine religions don't produce Ethereals, neither does >> devil-worship. Any Ethereal that comes close enough to the real thing >> disappears (gets absorbed into the real thing?). If people do >> Devil-worship, I imagine that, if Essence goes anywhere, it goes to >> Lucifer. > > Actually, I've always liked playing it that Celestials simply don't get >worship Essence. My idea is that Celestials represent a different order of >being from Ethereals entirely, and that where an Ethereal can get Essence >and indeed derives sustenance from just being believed in, Celestials need >to actively promote a concept in the Symphony in order to further their >causes. I like it mainly because it makes the two groups have different >goals to begin with, and because of some of the lines it promotes: > > "You don't believe in demons, eh? Cute." This, I like. All kinds of fun implications, here. And, if I am not mitaken, well into the range of CDAU, at least until the EPG is released (I have mine on order, already....) One more knot of pain one more note of laughter still wind blows the past - -Daiv David M. Barr daiv@cruzio.com YIM Daivbear AIM Drnknmstrhkugk H (831)477-0539 C (831)566-2237 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:26:18 -0800 From: "vaughn_r" Subject: IN> Who is Batman? (part 2 of ?) Ever have one of those simple ideas that just seems to keep growing? This story was suppose to end with the witty dialogue I had dreamed up last night, but noooo, I just had to go and turn my introduction piece into it's own little story. Oh well, never say no to your Muse I suppose. Anyhow, there are more clues - or perhaps too many, but the official revelation is delayed a day. I hope you enjoy this second installment. - -Vaughn * * * WHO IS BATMAN? "Let's go over this again. Start from the beginning, and tell me what you saw." "How many times do I have to tell you? I didn't see his face." "His face. How do you know it was a man?" "He was built like a walking brick! How many chicks have muscles on top of their muscles?" "Corporeal sexual dimorphism is irrelevant here. Appearances in the Marches are a matter of will. The entity you described could be any number of things. Now, I ask you again. How do you know it was a man?" "I have an affinity for these things. Boss picked me because I could find the marks that were into that whole macho BS. Let me tell you, this guy reeked of it, I suppose it could have been that Zadi..." "Let's stick to the facts at hand shall we? Now you said you had a specific target." "Yeah, some kind of wanna be super hero. I don't know his name. I'm not much into talking with my food." "I see. How exactly did you find him?" "That's one of my knacks, man. I'm the embodiment of bully. A bully's gotta know who's gonna fight back and who's going to cave in at the first sign of pressure. But I'll let you in on a little secret 'Special Agent Roy.' I didn't have to look too hard to find my mark, because he came looking for me. All these guys come looking for me eventually. They got something to prove because some fat kid once stole their lunch money..." "You're avoiding the question, Brutus. How exactly did you find your target?" "It was simple, really. I mean how many grown men dream of being a caped-crusader? And what's a caped-crusader without villains to vanquish? I just looked for the spandex and the need to smite, and as sure as old Baal has a tail, we had our guy. You ask me though, these guys are all a little too fixated on leather." "So what happened after you found the dreamscape?" "Well Boss had it all planned out. He sent us in first to lure him out. 'Pride cometh before the Fall,' he said, and he would know..." "What were you supposed to do?" "Oh the usual. You know: rob a bank, take some hostages, kidnap his girlfriend, hit on his girlfriend - literally - all pretty much standard stuff. These guys aren't into originality." "Then what happened?" "Well, this guy followed the script like he'd wrote it or something. First, there was the Bat signal. What kind of moron uses a skylight to call someone? Hasn't this guy ever heard of a cell phone? What's he going to do if villains strike during the day time, turn on a smoke machine? Jes..." "Language, Brutus. Watch the language." "Sorry, running with the Devil and all. So anyway, were standing there looking up at that bat signal for what seems like an eternity - the guy probably had to suck in his beer belly to fit into his bat suit - when the man finally arrives. He's flying that bat wing thing that he stole right out of the movie - no originality these days - and shock of shocks, he puts it on auto pilot so he can jump out and surprise us. Like we haven't seen that trick a thousand times before." "What did he look like?" "This guy? Typical nerd who's read too many muscle magazines. Five eight, five nine tops... beefy in a protein powder kind of way... pasty skinned like the only light he ever saw was from a TV... oh and glasses. Since when does Batman wear glasses I ask you?" "So this is not the same person that confronted you later?" "Hell no. That guy was scary; this guy was just a joke. I could have taken this loser, but Boss gave us real particular orders. Let him knock us around for a bit, grab his girlfriend when we were on the verge of defeat, and then run to the old toy factory." "So when did you realize there was another dreamer inside?" "Like I told you before, everything seemed normal right up until the end. Bat Nerd followed us to the Toy factory. We had our warm-up fight. Boss revealed himself right as he 'beat' us. Boss shot the helpless girlfriend princess. Bat Nerd went to save her. Princess slapped some hand cuffs on him while he was making some tragic soliloquy, and then she walked into Boss's arms and gave him a great big wet kiss. Oh the look on Bad Nerd's face was priceless. Shock, betrayal, shame - you can't buy essence like that." "The hand cuffs were... relics?" "Yeah, Boss said they would keep the loser from waking up - at least in the Marches. They do something else down on the farm. Pretty nifty toy if you ask me. Wish I had a pair." "What happened then?" "Well, we're lowering Bat Nerd into the acid vat nice and slow. He had a perfect view of Boss and his new lady friend getting to know one another. And I guess I was a little distracted watching the lady go to work, because I never really saw what happened next. All of a sudden something pulls Bat Nerd out of the vat." "Something. Could you be more specific?" "I don't know. I think it might have been a rope or a thin wire. It happened real fast. I just saw the guy flying out of the vat and up into the rafters. "Describe flying." "You know, hands out in front of you, legs dangling behind." "Hands first?" "Yeah, like something was pulling him by the arms. "How did your group respond?" "Well, Boss was so busy laughing he didn't even notice our guy wasn't screaming any more. Bugsy though, he started firing into the rafters. He must have missed though, because that thing came down after him. It landed right beside him and BOOM it knocked Bugsy right back to his anchor. One hit. That's all it took." "What did it look like?" "I only saw it from behind. It was black, and it was big. It had plenty of muscle, but man was it fast. Boss's lady friend decided to play scratching post with it. That was a bad idea. She jumped on it's back and tried to go for the throat. I don't know if she made it, because the next thing I know she was flying through the air and into the vat. She came out a whole lot worse off then when she went in: green and ugly." "What was the Joker doing while this was going on?" "Boss? He just seemed amused by it all, but something surprised him." "What do you mean, surprised him?" "Well, I just realized something. Boss stopped laughing when he looked into the mystery man's face. He said 'Who are you?' And the new guy just stood there considering him. Then boss laughed and disappeared leaving me alone with the maniac." "What did you do?" "I didn't do a damn thing. I just stood there hoping the guy wouldn't notice me." "And?" "And he spoke to me." "What did he say?" "He told me to stay right were I was and wait for the police. The police, do you believe that? I thought he was joking at first." "What changed your mind?" "He didn't laugh, and that scared me. I'd seen what he could do. He didn't break a sweat taking out Bugsy and Princess. What was I going to do? So I waited, and eventually you arrived." "Yes, well, your story has been most illuminating." "So can I go now? You said I could go if I answered your questions." "Something is still missing." "I told you everything I know." "Let's go over this again. Start from the beginning, and tell me what you saw." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2940 ********************************