in_nomine-digest Monday, January 27 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2947 In this digest: You did not just go there...(was IN> Roles and Words) Re: IN> In Nomine: First Submission Ever: Jean, Elohite Archangel of Lightning IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2946 IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? Re: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? Re: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? Re: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? Re: Words and Dissonance Re: IN> Roles and Words He does WHAT with reliever oil? (was IN> Relievers? What to call them) RE: IN> A quick tribute RE: IN> Pushing the Symphony (Re: It's like a rorschach) RE: IN> Relievers? (was: Three hours of exercise...) Re: IN> RE: 2003: Fiction Piece #1 IN> Oannes & Janus? Re: IN> Oannes & Janus? RE: IN> Oannes & Janus? RE: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? Re: IN> Oannes & Janus? IN> In Nomine in English Re: IN> Wheels of Fire in the cold Re: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? Re: IN> In Nomine in English Re: IN> In Nomine in English RE: IN> In Nomine in English Re: Words and Dissonance Re: IN> Roles and Words Re: IN> Pushing the Symphony (Re: It's like a rorschach) Re: IN> In Nomine in English IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? RE: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? RE: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? Re: IN> 2003: Fiction Piece #1 Re: IN> RE: 2003: Fiction Piece #1 Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? Re: IN> Oannes & Janus? RE: IN> Oannes & Janus? Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:39:27 -0600 From: Gregg Forge Subject: You did not just go there...(was IN> Roles and Words) > > >- --- "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" > wrote: > > >>> Ooh. This sounds like an Artifact! >>> >>> What would Asmodeus's favorite Snoopy Blanket do? >> >> > > Aside from being an Invocation Modifier for certain >Ethereals it acts as Djinn Fuzz. Azzie doesn't want anyone >keeping tabs on him, after all. > 'Course not:; Djinn are the obsessive-compulsive ttype. No one should/Wood-stock the Prince of the Game, who exemplifies them! > The problem is that all of the other Princes want one >now. A classic case of Peanuts Envy... > Maybe it doesn't really exist. Maybe it's a Schroeder-ger's Artifact. Kamika-Z ...If this has been done, Frankli(n), I think this is gonna end up another Rerun.... > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:09:03 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine: First Submission Ever: Jean, Elohite Archangel of Lightning > Seraphim: Unsure, need suggestions. Hmm... Seraphim and retribution. Perhaps, as an enhancement of their usual resonance, they can automatically recognize any rationalization or lie meant to cover an act Jean would consider worthy of retribution, and what that act is? > Cherubim: Again, not sure. Heh, this one's easier. Without fear of Dissonance, they can semi-attune to the victim of an act of violence, and the semi-attunement instantly changes into the Nemesis aspect of the Cherub resonance, focused on the attacker. > Servitor Attunements: > > Bolt from the Blue: A bolt of lightning flashes from the >heavens to strike the target. May not be used indoors. This is a ranged >attack with +2 accuracy; if it hits, it does a number of hits equal to the >check digit of the roll times the essence used to power it. (Minimum 1.) It >also blinds the target for 12 (plus the essence spent to use Bolt from the >Blue, minus the victim`s Will) seconds. If you have access to the Liber Canticorum, the Celestial Song of Lightning also calls a bolt of lightning from the sky; you might want to compare these. > The point of writing this up is simple: There are still a few >old-school >servitors of Lightning out there. Jean hasn't taken away their attunements >or distinctions, he just no longer grants them. Should be a great thing to >spring on your PCs. > > Comments and Criticism? Generally a scary and primal version of the Archangel of Lightning. I would point out that even Jean's very first duties were concerned with learning, as he helped Raphael codify information under Yves' supervision very early in the Universe. However, the elemental aspect of Jean's Word is an interesting one that isn't always explored. I'd also point out that this might be a *future* version of Jean... if Gabriel could no longer perform her own duties. > Thanks in Advance, > Zach William ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:10:12 -0500 From: Zachary Weber Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2946 > >(I also don't carry canon celestial history in my head, but I think it's >correct that Jean's Word used to include Divine Retribution and that the >heavy shift to (small t) technology started after Raphael's death. > >Janet Anderson Yeah. I was kinda nervous about posting, and forgot some of the history I thought of. I envisioned the shift starting when Gabriel went mad(der) and really finishing around the time of Raphael's death in the Legion campaign. Sometime in the next few days I'm gonna post one of the aforementioned oldschool Servitors of Lightning who is still around, and is quite scary. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:58:36 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? In the campaign I'm currently playing Aaron, my Elohite of Children in, Eli (posing as a professor at Princeton) created this sentient artifical intelligence with the disposition of a child, imbued with Celestial Forces, so it was in effect, an Angelic being, and capable of Falling, and apparently something terrible/drastic/evil would happen if she did. While the two creationers, Arthur and Shiva, tried to keep it safe, Althyro, a servitor of Lightning basically whiped the AI out with a Celestial Computer Virus. (Aaron wasn't present, as he was trying to keep this kid safe from the "influence" of a Lilim of Dark Humor...) Now, Eli flips out and gets really frigging POed at the Jeanite (although Dominic and Jean reward him for his efforts) and puts the AI in a sort of coma to prevent her from dying, although she requires an hourly dose of essence to live (and guess who Eli makes responsible for providing it with that essence...) Later on, Althyro gets a visit from Lilith...who is freaking POed. Basically, she was ticked that the Seraph denied a sentient being the right to choose whether to live or die (as she couldn't really make that decision, because she was too young to understand the ramifications) and basically said that Althyro would either help keep the AI alive, or she'd kill him. Now, is it normal for Lilith to get that mad, and if so, would something like this make her angry? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 21:29:34 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? >Now, is it normal for Lilith to get that mad, and if so, would something >like this make her angry? Hey, it's your campaign. The "child-killer" version of Lilith probably would care very little, and maybe even go the opposite way. A lighter Lilith might react like that. My question is, why on Earth did Dominic and Jean reward Althyro's behavior? I see no reason why it was necessary to destroy this AI. Christopher, in particular, would probably be very protective of the AI, and would be in my opinion be far more likely to give the order to protect the AI on pain of death. William ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 21:42:04 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? My question is, why on Earth did Dominic and > Jean reward Althyro's behavior? I see no reason why it was necessary to > destroy this AI. Christopher, in particular, would probably be very > protective of the AI, and would be in my opinion be far more likely to give > the order to protect the AI on pain of death. > > William > > Several reasons-- First off, this machine was capable of becoming Demonic, and thus bringing suffering to countless humans (I'm not sure of the specifics, but it was obviously something not good...) Jean didn't like it because it had technology he thought humans shouldn't be exposed to yet; he wasn't particularly happy with the way the AI died, but it had to be done (only Dominic was truly pleased with Althryo, but then again, the GM has a VERY dim view of Dominic...). Christopher was ADAMENTLY against the AI dying. He didn't want to see it hurt. However, it was out of his hands (which is why I'm one of its current caretakers.) A few other Archangels, particularly Novalis and Zadkiel, didn't want it to die either. Althyro was supposed to gather more evidence before it died, but Eli and the Creationers had been trying to take it away from Princeton, and he was afraid they would try and hide it. Not the best Judgement on his part, but still... Lilith was interested in the AI from the beginning. I suppose this is a fairly bright interpretation of Lilith, but still, her Word is Freedom; and this was a being with Free Will, the first of its kind (the GM compared her to Jane from the Ender series) and she, apparently, felt that it would support Freedom to have this machine choose whether to live, and risk the possiblity of harming countless humans, or die, to save them from that possibility. Lilith's motivations are, as always, Lilith's motivations; she's always a wild card. I was just supprised to see her get angry to the point of threatening the destruction of another, even an Angel...I always thought she would prefer to be manipulative... Either way, her threats resulted in Althyro trying to drink his problems away...and take it from me, if there's anything that'll give Kobal a giggle, it's a drunk Seraph. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 23:40:44 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 09:29 PM, William J. Keith wrote: >> Now, is it normal for Lilith to get that mad, and if so, would >> something >> like this make her angry? > > Hey, it's your campaign. The "child-killer" version of Lilith probably > would care very little, and maybe even go the opposite way. A lighter > Lilith might react like that. There's also the possibility that someone has paid Lilith to do this, or to protect the AI. Possibly even Eli. (Or Christopher, to give a nod to William's reasoning.) > My question is, why on Earth did Dominic and > Jean reward Althyro's behavior? I see no reason why it was necessary > to > destroy this AI. Jean I can understand. This AI may have represented technology mankind is not ready for, so its regrettable destruction can only maintain the proper course of research. Elohim are like that. Dominic I have a problem with here, as a particularly horrid death is not likely to be a Just punishment for the crime of existence despite Dominic's distrust of Eli and his motives. But it depends on the darkness or light levels. - -- Eric A. Burns Freelance Writer and Textual Whore http://www.annotations.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 03:49:14 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: Words and Dissonance Re: IN> Roles and Words - --- "S.D." wrote: > > Unless those qualify as major state changes, in > which case my response is 'sure, that makes sense'. I'd call Gabby's change a major and Jean's ... yeah, it'd be a major, too, 'cuz he probably switched a bit to avoid Word-friction. I actually need to ponder this a little... Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/21/03 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 05:51:44 -0600 From: Gregg Forge Subject: He does WHAT with reliever oil? (was IN> Relievers? What to call them) > > >>> Dischord: Bait >> >> > > So, if an angel with this Discord is awarded a >Master-level Distinction, does that make him a... nah, >never mind. };> > When was the last time you heard of a celestial with Dischord (barring Calabim) getting a Distinction? There's a reason why removal of Dischord is considered an important reward. ;) Besides... Kamika-Z ...that's what they call someone with that Distinction who gains the dischord... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:43:45 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> A quick tribute Very nice. Thank you. If there are any misspellings in this, it's because I'ma little dewy-eyed. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:06:08 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Pushing the Symphony (Re: It's like a rorschach) Shadur t'Kharn wrote: "And I'm fairly certain everyone can guess what Kronos does to Servitors who let a particularly promising soul slip through their fingers by pushing too hard... "On second thought, I'd rather not guess. I like sleeping at night." "You have let a soul slip through your fingers. The howl from that sharpened famine echoes now through Hell down to the Throne itself. [...] They will give you to me, now, I think, or a bit of you. Love you? Why yes, as dainty a morsel as ever I grew fat on." -- Screwtape, to his luckless nephew Wormword, in the last of "The Screwtape Letters" (quoted from memory) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:09:33 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Relievers? (was: Three hours of exercise...) Neelakantan Krishnaswami wrote: "I guess "cariton" would work, since the -on ending is common among particle names, and caritas is Latin for charity? How does that sound out loud?" Okay, I think. And would "spirit particle" would be "pneumaton"? But I think I've seen that as a real Greek word. Maybe "oranon" for "heaven particle"? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:16:37 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan M Roth Subject: Re: IN> RE: 2003: Fiction Piece #1 On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Vaughn Romero wrote: > Very nice story Ryan, your essence is in the mail. Your solution is both > plausible and entertaining. Yet, some dark part of me wants to see the > following scene occur just afterwards in a far away corner of Shal-Mari. > > -Vaughn > > * * * Which, of course, would be followed by: * * * As the sun started to set over the Pacific west of LA, Liza put down the folder on her wide desk and considered. She had had no idea the Djinn had stumbled on to something this big. Actually, stumbled wasn't the right word; 'jumped into' sounded more appropriate. Still, what to do? Anything she wanted, of course. That was the core of being a Free Lilim. Do anything you want. Anything you can get away with, that is. So when the Djinn had given her the folder and instructions, she decided making a copy for herself was what she wanted. Strange, though. The Djinn hadn't specified that she not look at the info she was to have delivered. She knew he was more careful than that. Perhaps he was slipping -- he was certainly acting odd when the deal was made. Cold and far away. Like a serial killer. She seemed to remember reddish stains on his hands, too... Liza shuddered despite herself. He was gone now, she knew that for sure. She watched his Heart implode. So she set up the package delivery. After making her copy, of course. Now, though, what to do? And, more importantly, how to make a profit? It was while she considered these things that she felt the first twinge. A pain that she immediately recognized. It was the signal that she had not upheld her end of a bargain. Just the beginning, though; she still had time to complete her task before her soul was wracked. She quickly reviewed her outstanding jobs and could not determine what was left undone. Unless... A few phone calls later, and she had confirmation that the Renegade courier she had released hadn't made it to his destination. She wasn't sure what happened; the Game probably caught up with him. Which meant he might even now be telling them who let him out of Hell. Fifteen minutes later she was one her way to one of the safehouses she had set up, after torching her office and deleting her records. That cagey Djinn, she thought. He knew this might happen; he knew she would keep a copy for herself. So he didn't say 'send this info to this Tether.' He said, 'make sure this info gets to the angels in that Tether at all costs.' Meaning she wasn't off the hook until the angels got it. Still, it wasn't all bad just yet. An hour later, using a secure line, she telephoned the Tether. "Hello?" "Hi. I need to speak to a Servitor of Revelations, please." "Wha--who is this?" "A friend. I've got some info that you guys could really use. Of course, it won't come cheap..." *** Ryan R. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:28:32 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: IN> Oannes & Janus? Is there anything Canon on a relationship? Randy Finder randolph.finder@ngb.army.mil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:37:01 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Oannes & Janus? At 10:28 AM 1/27/2003 -0500, Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG wrote: >Is there anything Canon on a relationship? Not that I'm aware of. There's very little in canon *period* on Oannes; we know that he was the Archangel of the Waters, that Vephar was one of his Servitors (Angel of Sailors, IIRC), and that he was killed shortly after killing the Fallen Vephar, but beyond that there's not really any information that I can think of. Add to that the fact that Janus is one of the living Archangels, again IIRC, who has not received an expanded write-up... Out of curiosity, where did this come from? I know it's been suggested elsewhere, but it seems to have popped up a few times recently in various fora. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:38:57 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Oannes & Janus? Isn't it somewhere in the books that a lot of Oannes' orphans are now angels of Janus? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:49:47 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? Joey wrote: "Later on, Althyro gets a visit from Lilith...who is freaking POed. Basically, she was ticked that the Seraph denied a sentient being the right to choose whether to live or die [...] "Now, is it normal for Lilith to get that mad, and if so, would something like this make her angry?" Well, I take a generally Dark view of Lilith as being the anti-mother, the enemy of Eve, the baby-strangling demon of crib-death and death in childbirth. So, if I wanted Lilith angry at Althyro, I'd have her be mad because SHE wanted to be the one to kill this new kind of baby, and she wants it kept alive so she can try again later. And that could be her real motive, even after she *told* Althyro that she resented him denying choice to the AI. No one ever said she was truthful, outside of her bargains, and he certainly wouldn't be able to resonnate a Superior. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:09:54 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> Oannes & Janus? The GMG mentions that one taught the other when they both became Archangels. I think Oannes was the elder who learned to make waves and taught the trick to Janus. I've always assumed they were close friends. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 08:36:04 -0800 (PST) From: rob scwalen Subject: IN> In Nomine in English Is there a Eglish translation for the title of the game? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:36:55 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Wheels of Fire in the cold At 11:30 PM -0500 1/25/03, Stephen Dunscombe wrote: >The way the Ofanite of Fire attunement is worded in >Sups 3 (and, iirc, in the core rules...), Ofanim of >Fire are immune to heat AND cold. Is this the >accepted interpretation, or just a quirk of the >wording? That's how I'd interpret it. (The GURPS version may be more limited, to allow for the _possibility_ that the GM would allow someone to purchase it with points.) - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:47:56 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? At 8:58 PM -0800 1/26/03, Joey's mail wrote: >Now, is it normal for Lilith to get that mad, Oh, that's just a high snit, that's not MAD. When she gets MAD, well, watch out. (Especially since HUGELY FURIOUS Lilith is probably indistinguishable from Calm, Cool Lilith. But you'll know later...) >and if so, would something like this make her angry? Up to the GM. Sounds like a light-gray Lilith, to me. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:52:31 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine in English From: "rob scwalen" > > Is there a Eglish translation for the title of the game? It more or less literally means "In the name of." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:55:20 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine in English At 08:36 AM 1/27/2003 -0800, rob scwalen wrote: >Is there a Eglish translation for the title of the game? "In The Name". It's Latin. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:57:05 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> In Nomine in English rob scwalen wrote: > Is there a Eglish translation for the title of the game? Prodigal answered: > It more or less literally means "In the name of." The original French game is really two games, one for demons, one for angels, titles, respecitve "In Nomine Satanis" and "Magna Veritas" ("In Satan's Name" and "Great Truth") "In Nomine Satanis" is a parody of the standard conclusion often used in Latin prayers, "In nomine Patris et Filis et Spiritus Sancti" ("In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit") or "In nomine Domini" ("In the name of the Lord"). "Magna Veritas" is from a Latin tag that translates as "Great is Truth and shall prevail." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:54:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: Words and Dissonance Re: IN> Roles and Words At 12:02 PM -0500 1/25/03, S.D. wrote: > > >>Changing dissonance conditions would only happen when there were _major_ >>state changes in the Superior -- David and Uriel would be the primary >>examples of that, as they went from Cherub and Seraph to Malakim. > >I don't know...What about, say, Jean or Gabriel? Ha -- Jean is a good one. (Gabriel went kind of buggy, so I'd call her a fairly major state change example.) I'm not sure what Jean's prior dissonance conditions might have been. It's possible that he didn't have them, and did, indeed, somehow influence them. (Or Yves did, when he passed control over CelestiTech into Jean's hands!) It's possible that he had them in their current state all along, though perhaps without words for some of the concepts, and when he asked Yves about it, Yves just sighed and said he'd understand someday. It's possible that he's _always_ had a "hands off the humans, don't influence them to discoveries beyond their ability to handle" dissonance condition! This might be his own way of "putting the brakes" on his Word as a synonym for "Inspiration" -- or a natural cause of it, since "showing people exactly how to do X" doesn't _inspire_ them to do X, it just _teaches_ them how to do X. To be truly inspired, they have to figure it out for themselves. (Raphael would have been the teacher, and Jean the one who inspired someone to go beyond teachings and create something NEW. (He and Eli _are_ friendly, IIRC.)) So the _wording_ has just changed, and maybe some of the _nuances_, but the basic form might well have been there all along... >Unless those qualify as major state changes, in which case my response is >'sure, that makes sense'. ^^ *grin* Gabriel, definitely a state change. Jean... is a bit trickier. I'll think on it... - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:10:29 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Pushing the Symphony (Re: It's like a rorschach) At 19:34 +0100 01/26/2003, Shadur t'Kharn wrote: >In other news for Sat, Jan 25, 2003 at 01:00:15AM -0500, Elizabeth McCoy has been seen typing: >> At 6:52 PM -0500 1/24/03, Walter Milliken wrote: > >> >In our games, though not necessarily in canon, there's a sort of "Symphonic >> >recoil" when a celestial *forces* someone toward either Fate or Destiny. > >> I'm pretty sure there's something in Superiors 3 (Yves' section) about >> this... > >There is. Likewise in Gurps: In Nomine. Catch phrases: "Destiny is all >about choice. Angels and demons can influence this choice, but everyone >must decide what path to follow on their own", and "It's not also not >clear how much anyone can be influenced to their final end -- push too >hard, say the Servitors of Fate and Destiny, and sometimes the Symphony >pushes back." Which mostly a statement about *belief*, and not necessary what the Symphony actually *does*. Certainly canon is fairly strong about Fate and Destiny having to be choices. It's the "recoil effect" that's not explicit canon, as far as I can recall. >And I'm fairly certain everyone can guess what Kronos does to Servitors >who let a particularly promising soul slip through their fingers by >pushing too hard... About the same thing he does to demons who don't try hard enough.... Only maybe not as bad -- at least in the former case, the demon is *trying*. Frankly, I can see this as a case where Kronos would be more likely to lecture the eager-beaver on the advantages of being subtle -- ultimately, there may be more benefit from the demon learning from its mistakes, and getting some good souls in the future, than in making an example of it. With Kronos then remanding the demon back to his direct supervisor, who will give it some nice job requiring careful, painstaking work for a few decades. Like cleaning Shedite slime off Archive records.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:17:35 -0500 From: Joe Reimers Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine in English "In the name of" FWIW, in the Catholic Mass (Latin version), the Catholic Sign of the Cross (when Catholics cross themselves) goes: "In nomine Patri et Fili et Spiritu Sancti" which is Latin for "in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit/Ghost." The original French title was "In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas" (I think) which is "In the name of Satan/Great Truth." At 08:36 AM 1/27/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Is there a Eglish translation for the title of the game? > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:30:05 EST From: TWISTEDKUB@aol.com Subject: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? Hi All I have a general question that has come up in my game a few times: How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? For example: it is a given (in my game, at least) that all angels know about the basic resonances of each choir of angel, and each band of demon (more or less). They understand, more or less, how all choir/band resonances work. However, are servitor attunements considered "general knowledge"? For example, does every relatively experienced, relatively intelligent celestial know that a Mercurian of Blandine can see the future of any given human for a number of months? Or, for example, that a Calabim of Saminga can automatically "sense" the number of body points of anyone he looks at? I suppose the best answer is "GM's perogative". Therefore I am considering making knowledge of servitor attunements a form of "specialized knowledge"...perhaps requiring a successful die roll in e.g. "Knowledge--Angelology" or "Knowledge--Demonology". Knowledge of higher-level servitor attunements, e.g. "Captain" and "Vassal" levels, might be possible for someone with "Angelology" and or "Demonology" knowledge skills...but their die roll would be made at a penalty, because those attunements are less widely known. In addition, these these knowledge skills could also be applied to recognizing Rites. This has come to bear upon my game numerous times when an NPC celestial does something, and the PCs are trying to figure out a) what choir/band he belongs to and b) who he works for. Any thoughts? Thanks very much! Scott in Boston. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:45:23 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? TWISTEDKUB wrote: > How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? These guys have been in each other's faces for centuries, millenia in most cases. And each side has had defectors. So I think all the standard choir, band, and Word attunements and distinctions, etc., are public celestial knowledge. Granted, there are so many of them that I can imagine even a celestial losing track, especially for the servitors of a minor Superior that the seldom deal with. ("Can Christopher's kyrios animate toys, or would that just be Jean's?" "I don't know. I just know that teddy bear has a mean left hook.") Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:07:46 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: RE: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? > > Granted, there are so many of them that I can imagine even a celestial > losing track, especially for the servitors of a minor > Superior that the > seldom deal with. ("Can Christopher's kyrios animate toys, > or would that > just be Jean's?" "I don't know. I just know that teddy bear > has a mean > left hook.") For new Superiors I would imagine there is quite a reserch project on the other side in making sure they know the new tools the enemy has. On the heaven side, I'd imagine this is a job *everybody* wants to give to Lithroy (Find out about X and let *everybody* know is right up his alley). OTOH, on the hell side, you don't give this job to Aleamon. I'd think this would be Baal and "The War" Randy > > Earl > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:49:07 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> 2003: Fiction Piece #1 [applause] Very, very nice. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:55:48 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> RE: 2003: Fiction Piece #1 - --- Vaughn Romero wrote: > What would you say to a job that required you to keep > your mouth shut?" > > "..." > > "Ah, you learn quickly. I like that in a demon..." That alone was worth the price of admission. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:01:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? At 12:30 PM -0500 1/27/03, TWISTEDKUB@aol.com wrote: >How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? > >For example: it is a given (in my game, at least) that all angels know about >the basic resonances of each choir of angel, and each band of demon (more or >less). They understand, more or less, how all choir/band resonances work. I think this is quite accurate -- only the newest angel, with the least amount of "knowledge package" imparted to it at its creation, will be hazy on resonance. At the least, they know the general _scope._ Angels know Calabin "blow things up real good." They know Lilim see Needs. They know Impudites make people like them. They may _not_ know that Lilim can see specific needs if they work at it, or that they can geas a willing subject! (I.e., stuff from the IPG.) >However, are servitor attunements considered "general knowledge"? It depends. Among allied or even associated Superiors, Choir/Band and Servitor Attunements are probably known in general. (Free Lilim tend to be well acquainted with Lilim Band Attunements -- those are used as tempting offers in the Guildhall, and sisters gossip.) Among Archangels, useful/high-SFX attunements will be known about -- everyone knows that Gabrielites SMITE! Well-educated angels tend to know basics about other Archangels' attunements -- Jean's probably have classes (or at least archives that can be googled), while Dominic's learn about them in Little Judges' Class, at least a little. (Dominicans are more likely to know your _dissonance conditions_, though...) I would generally say that the core-book attunements will be known, at least vaguely, to any older, non-cloistered angel. Ditto Distinctions, though more fuzzily. Expanded writeup (Superiors books, Rev Cycle) attnements and Distinction powers are more likely to be hazy to "you can do _what_?" On the other side? It depends. Judgment and the Game probably know a fair amount about each other's abilities. Wind and Theft certainly do. Creationers squabble with Lusties enough that both sides tend to know the _aggressive_ uses of attunements. Same with Lightning and Technology. I figure there are a bunch of mnemonics floating around for Malakim and more warlike angels, in Hell. Things like, "Hands flame green? Be not seen!" or "He's got a pie, prepare to die!" for Fire and Creation Malakim. (So even if you don't remember _which_ Word is associated, you at least know there's a blackwing there.) Most demons either know about, or wouldn't be surprised by, a Gabrielite SMITE -- it's a logical fire ability. There's probably something similar in Heaven -- mnemonics, classes, etc. Laurencians might be _very_ well educated. (I'm now having flashes of CrocHuntiel, dangling a mostly-dead vessel on his blade, and saying something like, "And 'ere we have a typical Balseraphic vessel -- notice the ciggies in 'er pocket? Probably one of Belial's lot -- gotta be careful of 'em!" He drops the sword quickly, in favor of a wooden Japanese sword. "See, their special trick, heatin' up metal -- get some nasty burns. Crikey! It's one of the fire-starters! Lookit that chair burn! We'd better kill 'er fast and send her back to her home, where she belongs.") > does every relatively experienced, relatively intelligent celestial >know that a Mercurian of [Yves] can see the future of any given human for a >number of months? Or, for example, that a Calabim of Saminga can >automatically "sense" the number of body points of anyone he looks at? I'd think not, actually -- that would depend on if you commonly clash with them, or work for someone who does. On the other hand, people wouldn't be _surprised_ by most of them, once they saw the ability in action. >This has come to bear upon my game numerous times when an NPC celestial does >something, and the PCs are trying to figure out a) what choir/band he belongs >to and b) who he works for. I'd just figure out if it was plausible for them to know the thing, and have them make an Intelligence roll with bonuses or penalties as I thought appropriate. O:> - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:06:54 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? - --- TWISTEDKUB@aol.com wrote: > How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? Assume that Fallen/Redeemed know quite a lot about the abilities that their former comrades have. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:27:23 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? I assume that celestials are at least as good as humans at knowing about their enemies. Considering that we have two sides that have been at war for 25,000 years, it's safe to say that all but the newest celestials know everything about their foes. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:22:37 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: Re: IN> Oannes & Janus? >Is there anything Canon on a relationship? Nope. The closest I've found is the GMG, which says (p. 92) "... Janus... and Oannes are also created during this epoch. Janus learns how to move ocean waves and winds, and teaches the trick to his friend Oannes. They become Archangels of the Wind and the Waters, respectively." (Which caused me to speculate and do a little fic: http://haru_in.tripod.com/gravity.html , and if anyone else had any speculations on Janus and Oannes, could you forward me the link/email me privately? I rather like Janus, and Oannes sounds like he could have been interesting.) Harukami - ---- "I wish I knew what we were being kept so long *for*..." [To be concluded when the Malakim come knocking.] Just then, there is a knock on the door. [.........I hate you so much. ^^] http://haru_in.tripod.com/ Haru's IN page: Game logs, art, and fiction. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:56:09 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: RE: IN> Oannes & Janus? > (Which caused me to speculate and do a little fic: > http://haru_in.tripod.com/gravity.html , and if anyone else had any > speculations on Janus and Oannes, could you forward me the > link/email me > privately? I rather like Janus, and Oannes sounds like he > could have been > interesting.) Apologies if my question was viewed as an attempt to put down your work. Every sailboat that existed can be viewed as part of the union that Janus and Oannes had... Randy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:55:41 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? At 12:30 -0500 01/27/2003, TWISTEDKUB@aol.com wrote: >However, are servitor attunements considered "general knowledge"? For >example, does every relatively experienced, relatively intelligent celestial >know that a Mercurian of Blandine can see the future of any given human for a >number of months? Or, for example, that a Calabim of Saminga can >automatically "sense" the number of body points of anyone he looks at? In my games, I assume that there are people on both sides who routinely collect this information, and there are enough defectors both directions that it's likely that most common attunements and distinctions are at least *known*, and some research could turn up descriptions of just about anything on the other side. (On the demonic side, there may often be a cost to access the information, though, unless it's a Servitor of Fate, the War, or maybe Technology.) However, whether a given individual knows them is more open to question. I assume that angels know most of the stuff in the core rule book about angelic abilities, at least vaguely, as well as the basics of Bands, and any common (core rules) abilities among their primary foes (e.g., Technology for Jeanites, Fate for Destiny Servitors). Demons will typically know everything about Band abilities, all of the normal attunements and distinctions from their own Prince, the basics for the main Choirs, and the common attunements and distinctions for the Archangel who directly opposes their Prince. Both sides will usually be acquainted with some of the more combat-related abilities for all of both sides, so attunements, Songs, and dissonance conditions related to combat from just about anyone are likely to be known, at least in general outline. Rare attunements (additional ones in the Superiors books) or Distinctions may not be commonly known outside the Word that grants them, and maybe not even inside (especially for Princes). There are probably a lot of rumors about such rare attunements, and a lot of them are likely to be false (at least on the demonic side -- Seraphim tend to be hell on false rumors, sooner or later). >I suppose the best answer is "GM's perogative". Therefore I am considering >making knowledge of servitor attunements a form of "specialized >knowledge"...perhaps requiring a successful die roll in e.g. >"Knowledge--Angelology" or "Knowledge--Demonology". Certainly this would be an appropriate skill for someone who specializes in acquiring this sort of information, especially about rarely-granted ablilities, those of minor Choirs/Bands, and those of minor or dead Superiors. I don't think I'd require a skill to know stuff that's in the core rule book, for any normal angel or demon, unless there was good reason to believe their background would preclude their knowing it. Any reasonably-experienced angel or demon *could* know such information. - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2947 ********************************