in_nomine-digest Tuesday, January 28 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2948 In this digest: Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? RE: IN> Oannes & Janus? Re: IN> In Nomine: First Submission Ever: Jean, Elohite Archangel of Lightning IN> From: Maurice Lane - Well, so much for light and fluffy... Re: IN> From: Maurice Lane - Well, so much for light and fluffy... Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? IN> Seraph Proof Paper IN> Someone's Gone Batty (part 3 of 4 IN Batman) IN> The phrase I'm thinking of.... Re: IN> Someone's Gone Batty (part 3 of 4 IN Batman) Re: IN> Seraph Proof Paper IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? IN> RE: 2003: Fiction Piece #1 IN> Pushing the Symphony IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? RE: IN> From: Maurice Lane - Well, so much for light and fluffy.. . Re: IN> Pushing the Symphony Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? Re: IN> Pushing the Symphony Re: IN> Oannes & Janus? IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:55:08 -0500 From: Neelakantan Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? TWISTEDKUB@aol.com wrote: > > I have a general question that has come up in my game a few times: > > How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? > > For example: it is a given (in my game, at least) that all angels > know about the basic resonances of each choir of angel, and each > band of demon (more or less). They understand, more or less, how all > choir/band resonances work. > > However, are servitor attunements considered "general knowledge"? > For example, does every relatively experienced, relatively > intelligent celestial know that a Mercurian of Blandine can see the > future of any given human for a number of months? Or, for example, > that a Calabim of Saminga can automatically "sense" the number of > body points of anyone he looks at? The answer should be, "Whatever maximizes the fun of the players and GM." Here's how my game would work: I wouldn't go with making everything (or even a lot of things) secret, because that restricts the ability of the group to run games in which the PCs pick up on some odd detail and deduce what's going on. I also wouldn't say that all the stuff in the main rulebook is stuff that everyone knows off the top of their heads. This is because it would basically require all the players to memorize all of the attunements in order to play their PCs correctly. Instead, I'd say that everything in the main rulebook is public knowledge, in the sense that it's all information that's available to the characters, but which they may not know immediately. This way, what the PCs do -- go back and get more data -- will correspond well to what the players do -- flip through the rulebook looking for attunements that match. As long as the players are having fun arguing about which Prince a demon serves, I'll let them argue. If it's bogging the game down, I'll feel free to tell one of the players, "Your PC recall that Habbalah of Nightmares are capable of moving phobias around between people." I would *not* bother with an Angelology or Demonology skill. Since most of the PCs are celestials, that's something that plays a lot better as a networking thing. If the PCs want to learn about the true summoning ritual of Gratz the Unemployable, then they're going to have to ask around among their contacts. RPGs work best at representing conversations -- you should take as many opportunities as possible to turn conflicts into them. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:57:59 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: RE: IN> Oannes & Janus? >> privately? I rather like Janus, and Oannes sounds like he >> could have been interesting.) > >Apologies if my question was viewed as an attempt to put down your work. Oh, not at all! I only put the link up because I'm *curious* about people's opinion on the two of them and their friendship, and was hoping to find different viewpoints out. >Every sailboat that existed can be viewed as part of the union that Janus >and Oannes had... A very good, and very *interesting* point, and certainly most likely to be a common point for their interest in humanity before Belial killed Oannes... Harukami - ---- "I wish I knew what we were being kept so long *for*..." [To be concluded when the Malakim come knocking.] Just then, there is a knock on the door. [.........I hate you so much. ^^] http://haru_in.tripod.com/ Haru's IN page: Game logs, art, and fiction. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:26:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine: First Submission Ever: Jean, Elohite Archangel of Lightning - --- Zachary Weber wrote: > theres a reason most > Demon Princes dont push him too hard. You might want to turn off the 8-bit ASCII, rafiki. > Dissonance: I like the Dissonance condition, very appropriate. > Seraphim: Unsure, need suggestions. > > Cherubim: Again, not sure. I'll second the versions that have already been posted. > Elohim: It is not dissonant for these angels > to strike out of > anger, if they have also determined (objectively) that > striking is necessary. If they've determined objectively that striking is necessary, they're not really striking out of anger. > Malakim: Can, at will, surround their hands > with a nimbus of electricity. IOW, a Jeanified version of Malakite of Fire. Logical if not original. > Kyriotates: Kyriotates of Jean can possess > entire storms. This > takes all of their essence (minimum three) and all of > their forces, but for > (celestial forces x2) hours they can steer a storm > system, and direct it's > lightning. The storm's lightning bolts do (force of > storm)d6 of electrical > damage, and it may throw (force of storm/7, min 1) per > round. The force of > the storm determines how many forces the Kyriotate must > have to possess it, > and how powerful it is. A small storm is about 9 forces, > while a large > storm is 12-15, and a hurricane can be anywhere from 19 > to (in the case of > truly massive storms) 22 or more. A kyriotate may not use > this ability more than once a year. This needs some work. First, storms vary in intensity independently of size. For example, a hurrican with 120 m.p.h. winds can be smaller than one with 90 m.p.h. winds. Better to simply say that possessing a storm system requires the angel's full Forces and leave it at that. I'd also up the Essence cost considering how powerful this ability is (I wouldn't let it go for less than 5; 6 or 7 isn't too much to ask). Finally, the Kyrio should be able to throw _1_ lightning bolt per combat round with a Power based on the angel's Forces (my rationale for that is that, in normal possession, the Host's stats are replaced by the possessor's). Considering the power of storms a base Power of (angel's total Forces) isn't really excessive. This is balanced by the fact that lightning bolts don't follow straight line paths; they're deflected by airborne charges and magnetic fluctuations between the origin and the target. Accuracy -3 is quite reasonable. With this to balance it out the use restriction can drop to once per month instead of as written (which is too restrictive to make the Attunement very useful). > Mercurians: It is not dissonant for Mercurians of Jean to > attack Hellsworn humans. Now this is good. > Bolt from the Blue: A bolt of lightning > flashes from the heavens to strike the target. This would be better served by use of the Celestial Song of Lightning without Disturbing the Symphony (though harming/killing a human in this manner should cause normal Disturbance). > Vassal of Lightning: Vassals of Lightning > strike with great > power. They add 2 to the check digits of all offensive > Celestial songs. This is way too munchkiny, even for a Distinction. A Power bonus to a specific form of attack or a bonus that applies under certain conditions is better. > Friend of Thunder: Can use the Song of > Thunder at no essence > cost, or double the check digit (before adding the bonus > from Vassal of > Lightning) by choosing to spend the Essence anyway. Hmmm. I can't find anything really wrong with this. I don't like it, but it's purely a matter of taste. Mechanics-wise it works fine. > Master of Divine Retribution: By force of > Will, the angel may > strike directly at the souls of his opponents. A Master > of Divine > Retribution always has the option to engage in celestial > combat, even while in vessel form. I _really_ wouldn't want this in play in my campaign. I don't even like the Calabite of Lust Attunement. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:40:06 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> From: Maurice Lane - Well, so much for light and fluffy... >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 00:38:29 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /^\s*get\s+\S+\s+\S+\s*$/i at line 4 >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:35:23 -0800 (PST) >From: Maurice Lane >Subject: Well, so much for light and fluffy... > >...which is what I started out to do, but apparently I >had other ideas. I have no idea what to call this, >except hopefully something that might finally let me >g e t some sleep. > >Moe > >It's hard to deal with pain. > >Well, that came out as trite, no? That's one of the >things that I - well, not hate; I stopped hating a >while back - it's one of the things that frustrates me >about corporeal tongues. There are some things that >just can't be said in them, and a whole lot more >things that can only sound completely stupid and >clumsy. There isn't a language on Earth that is >better at expressing pain than in describing it. I >wish that there were. > >It's not for me, you understand; it's for them. The >humans. They hurt so easily, so brutally, and the >worst part for them is that trying to express it >invariably causes more hurt. Even the cultures that >let them show pain fall down completely when it comes >to letting them verbalize it. Humans don't like to >even think about suffering, pain and grief too much: >they seem such insoluble problems that there's no >point to trying to overcome them. The humans make do >instead with clumsy makeshifts and nonverbal cues. >It's, pardon my Infernal, a Hell of a way to run a >civilization. > >And the worst bit is, it's all so bloody unnecessary. > >There's a guy in Heaven - one of the clever ones, and >one that knew fear like a lover - that said once that >the worst fear, the most primal fear of all, was the >fear of the unknown. That's the source of their pain: >they have to go through daily Hells on Earth because >they don't know what's going to happen to them, and it >scares them more than anything else that the corporeal >plane can throw at them. That fear gnaws and bites at >even the saintliest and confident of them; it colors >everything that they do. They can't be sure. They >can't help but think, late at night when alone, that >maybe it's meaningless, all of it. That, maybe, when >it's over it's over, with nothing at the end except >for a fall into endless nothingness and silence. It >eats at them, even when they don't consciously think >about it. Actually, it eats at them especially when >they don't consciously think about it. > >And I, who have the one piece of knowledge that they >all crave beyond food, water and even air - the >knowledge that there is something beyond the silence >of their last heartbeat - cannot give it to them. I >could so easily show them... but I may not. I have to >watch while they grapple with pain, fear and >unfairness, and usually the best that I can offer is >the metaphorical equivalent of a Band-Aid for a gut >wound. I do not even get to have the satisfaction of >hating the reason why I have to do this: I can do >nothing but approve of it. Free will may be a stone >cold bitch, but the alternative is too hideous to >contemplate. > >You would think that our Soldiers would thus be a >comfort to us, and you would be right, but even then >the pain is not removed, only lessened. If it were >not for the War, we would not reveal the nature of >their future past vitality to any human: partially >because each recruiting of a new mortal to the cause s >u b verts their right to find their path on their own >(and each act of s u b version rips into every angel >in a pain that never lessens, or becomes Truly >familiar) - but mostly because to become a Soldier is >to trade pain wished upon you by the universe for >voluntary, self-inflicted pain. They cannot give >others the same essential comfort that we have gifted >them with, you understand. No matter how much they >might love those others, or how stabbing the pain >might be to see others suffering when the right words >could irrevocably end that suffering, our Soldiers >must keep silent, lest they wreck the paths of others. > Most of them meet the challenge bravely, so bravely - >but I have heard too many tears in the darkness to >delude myself. > >And so, I hope that now you know why some angels >volunteer for the honorable and ancient task of easing >the last moments of a human's lifespan. Understand, >the fact that we embrace such a task as if it were an >eager lover does not mean that we loathe them, or >enjoy the feel of their final breaths. We would not >have any man, woman or child die, if we could help >it... but they will, and so we do what we can (and >there are never enough to do the task properly) to >make that passing easy, when we are not denied even >that service by mechanisms that are only dimly >understood, even by us. Believe us, we love them. We >love them so. Please believe me when I tell you this. > >This is the only way that I may deal with their pain. > >===== >Liber Licentiae Moeticae: >http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html > >Last updated 01/21/03 (this is usually way out of date) > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:51:29 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> From: Maurice Lane - Well, so much for light and fluffy... Brrrrrr. That's all I can say about that. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:14:47 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? >Hi All > >I have a general question that has come up in my game a few times: > >How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? In my game, this is very standard knowledge. Indeed, Jean has a database that's made available to humans that are known to be aware of the War and actively aiding Heaven's cause. It lists the information you describe -- resonances for the Choirs, and Choir Attunements and Rites for the major Archangels, along with descriptions of their organizational tendencies. The actual existence of Dissonance Conditions or hostilities between Archangels is glossed over a good deal or simply omitted, unless given a brief description such as "Seraphim are pained by lying, and will never do it willingly," or something like this. More information is given on ethereals, demons and Demon Princes ("Servitors of Lust will readily turn against Servitors of Death and vice versa," for example). Probably once you're a Soldier you get better information about the grittier details of the Life -- Dissonance and Discord, the Purity Crusades, Michael snubbing Yves, etc. >"Knowledge--Angelology" or "Knowledge--Demonology". Could still be a perfectly good skill -- based, however, on knowing what *humans* think of angels and demons. Not a half bad skill for a demon that deals with Sorcerors a lot, for example. Perhaps if he starts chanting something at you, you make a demonology roll and recognize a widely-spread hoax version of Solomon's Key, which you can then pretend to respond to suitably. >Scott >in Boston. William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:27:22 +0000 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: IN> Seraph Proof Paper "Hey, would you come look at this? There's something weird about this message..." "Sure. Ok, let's... OW! What the.. Laurence does NOT look good in a toga? What? (flipping sound) It doesn't say anything about that!" "Here, let me try it again... Aie. The... No, Dominic is _NOT_ wearing lingerie underneath the cloak. But..." "Yeah, tell me about it. It's not on there. I can read the words, but when I really _look_... There's a Malakite of Judgment who's funding operations by selling calendars to Lilim. Gah. I.." "That's just wrong. This is a load of... ahem. Yeah. Ok, I never wanted to know that about Andrealphus. Where did you get this?" - --------------- Seraph Proof Paper Very simple stuff, really... regular heavy grade paper impregnated with hundreds of microfibers with some of the most horrifying heresies and BS ever imagined. Any Seraph who tries to use his resonance on any message written on the paper has to score a CD higher than the level of the roll of paper or catch something from the microfibers as the greatest lie... There's a catch, though - whoever makes this stuff (and nobody will admit to making it) has The Goods. About 5% of the messages in the microfibers are true, and they're the sort of thing that you just can't get... but you can't trust your resonance on this stuff. I mean, it doesn't say _which_ servitor of Stone came up with a sexual technique that Andrealphus hasn't tried, or how many teddy bears are in Asmodeus's collection... and even if it did, how could you trust it? A simple xerox of the page will allow for the message to be resonated, but on the resonance roll, if the CD is not over half the level of the paper, the truth will only come across as known by the person that xeroxed it, rather than the original writer. There's one other effect of this stuff is what leads most people to believe that a Superior came up with this stuff, though none of them are admitting to it - if a sufficient amount of essence is put into it the paper will block a Seraph from scanning what's underneath it. Making it the perfect thing for wrapping presents for inquisitive and overcurious Archangels who _hate_ surprises... Cost - 4pts Per level, but can not be openly purchased as no one knows who makes the stuff. Can occasionally be found in and amongst other finds. Automatically detectable as a relic if changed with essense - in any other case appears completely normal until resonated. Michael Cleveland Gulf Coast Geotech _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:23:23 -0800 From: "Vaughn Romero" Subject: IN> Someone's Gone Batty (part 3 of 4 IN Batman) And the someone who's gone batty may be me, but fortunately the end is in sight. This trilogy ends in part 4! Either that or the geasa over me is stronger than a geas/3. Must. Buy up. Will. Must. Post. On topic... Enjoy, Vaughn * * * "So am I winning?" "When did this become a contest?" "It's a war of information. The winner is the one who first determines the truth and uses it most effectively." "Wouldn't that make our presenter the winner?" "Roy may know the truth, but that doesn't mean he knows how to use it." "Your saying our rise in attendance today isn't a good use of the information?" "Only if our commander chooses to use this opportunity for some good, but his agenda today tells me that he's still got a lot to learn about morale." "You might be surprised by the results." "If you want to surprise me, you'll tell me my dark horse is leading the pack." "And that would be?" "I'll trade you for it. You tell me my standing, and I tell you my dark horse." "What makes you think I can't guess your dark horse?" "Guess? Wouldn't that be like gambling?" "I suppose it would be, but in this case guessing has an acceptable risk to payoff ratio." "What if I add in my first choice?" "I might accept your terms, but only if you tell me why you selected your first choice." "Now you're asking a gentleman to kiss and tell. Word might get out that I'm indiscrete." "No, that would cost you extra." "Hey, you're cheating." "I thought you admired that?" "Cheating has it's uses. So do we have a bargain or not?" "Your standing for learning two of your choices: your dark horse and your first choice, including of course the explanation for the latter. I accept." "And spreading the word, don't forget that part." "That wasn't part of the deal." "Oh come on, you know you want to." "I know you want me to. I suppose you have a good reason for it. Consider it done." "So am I winning?" "Just barely. It appears to be between you and one other." "Who is?" "Not part of our bargain. Now tell me your choices." "Well, my dark horse is old poker spine himself. He has the cape for it, and you know his associate on the other side wouldn't mind seeing Kobal get the smack down, so it's not entirely impossible. But sadly, I don't think he's learned to take a more active part in the War. One can always dream. After all, even a hyena can have his day." "I'm glad I held out for your first choice. I would have guessed your dark horse in one." "But then I wouldn't have confirmed it." "True. So who is your first choice?" "Our dashing young commander." "Not an unpopular opinion." "You're saying he's number two?" "Who said anything about that?" "Word must get around." "I believe you were going to tell me why he's your first choice." "Well, for starters there was a witness." "An unreliable one." "Who nonetheless consistently described a celestial in black." "Ethereals are not generally known for their consistency. Besides, I thought that black was part of the costume." "It is, but the Marches are a funny place. One rarely sees the same thing twice. That is, unless the object is strongly associated with something, and our Commander is nothing if not proud of his wings." "Is that the full basis of your opinion?" "No. There is the fact that he has experience fighting in the Marches." "So does his brother Khalid." "Ah, but Khalid does not fit the first description." "Hardly a conclusive case for or against any of us. Indeed, popular opinion has you in the role, and you don't meet your own criteria." "Ah, but it is my style, and I can't say I'm not impressed with the results." "There is something more. What else makes him your first choice?" "Well, he is sweet on the Lady. What better way to get her attention these days?" "A dangerous move. It could backfire." "Yes, it could. That is why I want him to know, and I want him to know it came from me." "You think he is being reckless?" "I love seeing him in the field doing what he does best, but he did make an oath to respect his weapons and treat them with care." "You think he will hurt her?" "It reminds her of old wounds, and it calls into question her ability to govern her own domain. Yes, I think it will hurt her." "And what if you're wrong about your choice?" "For his sake, I hope I am." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:11:25 -0500 From: "ebertish" Subject: IN> The phrase I'm thinking of.... ... rhymes with "clucking bell". * Apparently my computer decided that I didn't have enough problems in my life, so during a routine "clean and compress" run the registry became corrupted. Fortunately, it was simply the OS that got buggered; my documents and pictures and saved games are all fine. Unforunately, my saved email is not. Apparently, Windows likes to keep its saved email in strange, hard-to-find places, and when I re-installed the OS the email got wiped. Again, clucking bell. This sets me back significantly. So, in an attempt to reconstruct the 5+ years of saved email, I am asking that the following authors send me everything they've ever written: Neel, Earl, James Walker (the zombie guy), EDG, Moe, and that guy who wrote that thing I thought was really good. If you're not on the list, apologies; I'll get back to you as soon as I can. - -- Casca (Yes, this is humor. I don't really expect authors to send me archives of their work. But hey, I won't turn it down.) * Thanks and apologies to Rowan Atkinson, whom I'm told I resemble. Blackadder III, specifically. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 05:57:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Someone's Gone Batty (part 3 of 4 IN Batman) Quite enjoyable. I look forward to the conclusion. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:03:04 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Seraph Proof Paper Now this is just _off_. Michael must love this stuff (but only because Dominic hates it). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always evil." -- Jimmy Carter

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:04:35 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> What does it take to get Lilith mad? > Hey, it's your campaign. The "child-killer" version of Lilith probably > would care very little, and maybe even go the opposite way. A lighter > Lilith might react like that. Maybe she wanted to determine if she could Geas it through a webcam. Maybe she wanted to steal it's Forces to build her own digital celestial. Then, as a superior and having the abilities of her Servitors, she'd be able to Geas anyone with a webcam who hit an "Agree" button. Yours in Fear and Loathing, BC Petery ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:04:39 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> RE: 2003: Fiction Piece #1 On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Vaughn Romero wrote: > Still, what to do? Anything she wanted, of course. That was the core of > being a Free Lilim. Do anything you want. Anything you can get away > with, that is. Or anything you are willing to accept the consequences for doing. "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" Or "Sure I'm gonna get myself killed. But _I'm_ gonna do it Myyyyyyyy Wayyyyyyyy!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:04:39 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Pushing the Symphony >In our games, though not necessarily in canon, there's a sort of "Symphonic >recoil" when a celestial *forces* someone toward either Fate or Destiny. How does this work? How does the Symphony "push back"? The harder a demon pushes a man towards his Fate, the harder it is to achieve that Fate? If the man was Fated to kill his entire family and a demon possessed him to make him go on a shooting spree, would the Fate change? Would it be impossible for the man to achieve his Fate now that the demon has done it for him? If an (admittedly demented) angel wiped out the man's family while the man was at work, would the man have a new Fate? Would the Fate remain, waiting for the man to build a new family? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:04:39 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? > Knowledge of higher-level servitor attunements, e.g. "Captain" and "Vassal" > levels, might be possible for someone with "Angelology" and or "Demonology" > knowledge skills...but their die roll would be made at a penalty, because > those attunements are less widely known. In Hell it pays to have a reputation as a dangerous individual. You would _want_ your potential foes to know how much it would hurt to come into conflict with you. And you would _also_ make sure that they knew you had some surprises in reserve so they couldn't formulate a "perfect" strategy to take you down. "The greatest victory comes from not having to fight." Most demons who worked their way up from snotlings will be well informed. Demons who have been custom built by their Superior two hours ago get what their boss gives them. A Free Lilim with no background could be in real trouble. (Lilith is _such_ a bad mother.) =-=-=-=-=-= Or the Character knows anything the Player can remember without consulting the books. It encourages them to get their own set of books instead of trashing -excuse me, borrowing- mine. This is known as the, "You bought it, you got it," technique. Very handy with Liber Canticorum, Liber Reliquarum and the Superior series. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:23:12 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> From: Maurice Lane - Well, so much for light and fluffy.. . It sounds as if the speaker is an Angel of Death, perhaps the Archangel. Is it? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:42:03 +0100 From: shadur@systemec.nl (Rens Houben) Subject: Re: IN> Pushing the Symphony In other news for Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 09:04:39AM -0500, BC Petery has been seen typing: > >In our games, though not necessarily in canon, there's a sort of "Symphonic > >recoil" when a celestial *forces* someone toward either Fate or Destiny. > How does this work? How does the Symphony "push back"? > The harder a demon pushes a man towards his Fate, the harder it is to > achieve that Fate? > If the man was Fated to kill his entire family and a demon possessed him to > make him go on a shooting spree, would the Fate change? Would it be > impossible for the man to achieve his Fate now that the demon has done it > for him? He'd come out of the possession with the gun in his hands and amidst the corpses of his family and break down sobbing as the cops drag him away. He confesses and gets the death sentence mitigated to life in prison because of obvious remorse (or whatever). While in jail he has a religious conversion mostly thanks to his cellmate who occasionally talks to him about Faith, and by his example helps rehabilitate dozens of inmates who don't have life sentences. Destiny. Oops. Very annoyed Kronos. Very dead Shedite. > If an (admittedly demented) angel wiped out the man's family while the man > was at work, would the man have a new Fate? Would the Fate remain, waiting > for the man to build a new family? Man comes home to find his family brutally murdered for no apparent reason. Goes insane from the grief, decides that obviously there is no God or any kind of goodness, and either goes on an alcoholism/drugs downward spiral that ends in a suicide or death in a gutter, or starts some kind of obsessed crime spree for whatever reason, or anything similarly Fateful. Very disappointed Yves, although I think by then the angel in question has by that time already been hauled off by the Inquisition. Those are just suggestions, mind. I'm sure that the Symphony (and any clever and creative GM -- ah, but aren't all GMs brilliant and innovative paragons of creativity? *bootlick*) can come up with a dozen other ways to drop a spoke or two in the wheels of any celestial who thinks Free Will can be sidestepped that easily... - -Shad. - -- Rens Houben | opinions are mine Resident linux guru and sysadmin | if my employers have one Systemec Internet Services. |they'll tell you themselves PGP public key at http://swordbreaker.systemec.nl/shadur.key.asc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:25:35 -0500 From: Michael Bruner Subject: Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? At 12:30 PM 1/27/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hi All > >I have a general question that has come up in my game a few times: > >How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? I would say PCs know as much knowledge that isn't considered truly secret on every Superior on both sides as possible, and anything they can't remember they can easily get access to. The thing to remember is that Earth-bound Servitors by definition are elite agents of their Superiors by virtue of being trusted enough to go to Earth, with all the innate risk to the War and increased chance of Falling/going Renegade such a position holds. Given how relatively few celestials would be trusted with such responsibility, any that were trusted would not only be allowed such knowledge but probably required to demonstrate possessing a lot of it before being allowed to the Corporeal plane. Even the most paranoid Superior would have to assume the possibility of either new Servitors from someone on their side or the enemy showing up and their servants in place being the only ones capable of dealing with the situation in time, so their Earth-bound servants would have the most need-to-know of any of their people. So things as simple as resonances/attunements will certainly be common enough knowledge; honestly, if the players of an angel or demon read the core book cover-to-cover and remembered every detail, that's probably still within the level of knowledge that would be granted to a celestial in their position. One area where Heaven and Hell would probably differ is with Soldiers. Soldiers of Heaven actively fighting would probably be granted as much knowledge as their angelic companions for the same practical reasons (not to mention it would offend Litheroy's senses to withhold information that could be vital to the Soldier's survival), while those in support areas might have less info unless they specifically ask for it. This may vary depending on the human in question and the situation (those not in contact with whatever body ordinarily coordinates Soldiers in Heaven but merely working for an individual angel are certainly less likely to be "briefed" on such things) but in general Heaven is specifically selecting these Soldiers and has the capacity to evaluate their loyalty via resonances, so they will be trusted fairly well. After all, from Heaven's perspective, them knowing about the War is already the greatest "security breach", it's not going to be much worse to teach them the basics every other servant on the Corporeal plane knows. Hell of course will have a much less glowing opinion of the talking monkeys. While Undead might get some info on what to expect to maximize the value from making them in the first place (not to mention appropriate Needs can make them much easier to control), everybody else will be lucky if they even know they're working for demons, much less the capabilities of said demons and their angelic counterparts. What info they do get will be liberally laced with Balprop and other lies. Although any human who did by hook or crook gain real knowledge would probably not face trouble for it; it would speak well to their cunning and abilities to get it in the first place, so therefore they'd be more useful alive than dead. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:32:06 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Pushing the Symphony At 09:04 -0500 01/28/2003, BC Petery wrote: >>In our games, though not necessarily in canon, there's a sort of "Symphonic >>recoil" when a celestial *forces* someone toward either Fate or Destiny. > >How does this work? How does the Symphony "push back"? It can manifest in any number of ways. First of all, just forcing some human to enact his Fate (or Destiny) doesn't necessarily qualify him as having reached it, though how he acts *after* the forced actions might bring him there. But it may have the opposite effect, and cause him to recoil from his actions and try to atone (or in the case of Destiny, decide he's so blessed he can do anything he wants). I believe it's canon that a truly forced Fate or Destiny simply doesn't count. But the recoil effect afterwards is (I believe) non-canon, though as someone pointed out, there are celestials on both sides who believe this happens. However, the recoil effect can spread beyond the target. For example, the demon might experience an epiphany in the process, and decide he wants to redeem. Or other involved parties might get pushed toward their destinies. (E.g., one of the cops at a mass-murder scene is so repelled that he decides to give up his corrupt ways and becomes a model policeman who inspires others, reaching his Destiny, instead of his Fate as a vice cop on the take.) >The harder a demon pushes a man towards his Fate, the harder it is to >achieve that Fate? That could happen, or worse, then human might wind up at his Destiny instead. >If the man was Fated to kill his entire family and a demon possessed him to >make him go on a shooting spree, would the Fate change? Would it be >impossible for the man to achieve his Fate now that the demon has done it >for him? He would probably develop a new, somewhat similar Fate, in a case like this. On the other hand, it might be harder to get him to reach it. >If an (admittedly demented) angel wiped out the man's family while the man >was at work, would the man have a new Fate? Would the Fate remain, waiting >for the man to build a new family? In some cases, the Fate might be postponed until the human's next incarnation. (This could also happen in the demonic case.) Or a new Fate would come into being. I believe that Fates and Destinies should not be terribly specific, and are also, like all future knowledge, subject to celestial intervention. So rather than "family", I might have used "loved ones" in the original Fate. That sort of Fate is hard to cancel out. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:59:08 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Oannes & Janus? At 3:22 PM -0800 1/27/03, Harukami wrote: >>Is there anything Canon on a relationship? > >Nope. The closest I've found is the GMG, [...] I think there's a little about Oannes (though not Janus) in the Gabriel section of Superiors 3? At least, it was there in an earlier draft, so I can never quite remember what it looks like now. O:/ - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 03:43:17 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? If you were thinking of designing an angel or Archangel of Freedom, which choir would you choose? I think either a Seraph or a Malakite might work the best, and I'm leaning toward Seraph. Other choirs have their drawbacks; a Cherub might not be devoted enough to a non-concrete Word, an Ofanite wouldn't have the necessary mindset or attention span, an Elohite wouldn't be intense enough (I think Freedom would have to be intense, especially with the Word-friction involved); a Mercurian ... you have to be willing and able to fight for Freedom. And Kyriotates, interacting with the world the way they do, seem inappropriate by definition. Discuss? Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2948 ********************************