in_nomine-digest Wednesday, January 29 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2949 In this digest: RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? IN> Ascending Headaches IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. IN> Valefor strikes again! (was RE: 2003: Fiction Piece #1) IN> The Prince of Peace Was a Warrior, Too Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Re: IN> Ascending Headaches Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. Re: IN> Ascending Headaches Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. IN> I'd like to apologize to Rampaging Crypto-Man in advance... Re: IN> Ascending Headaches Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? IN> New players (still) wanted for PBEM Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Recall: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:50:24 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Janet Anderson wrote: "If you were thinking of designing an angel or Archangel of Freedom, which choir would you choose? [...] an Ofanite wouldn't have the necessary mindset or attention span" I would have suggested an Ofanite; that choir requires freedom to be happy and express their nature. I don't think they necessarily have short attentnion spans; as long as the line of thought keeps moving and changing, they'll be fine. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:55:24 -0600 From: MasonK Subject: RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? >Janet Anderson wrote: >"If you were thinking of designing an angel or Archangel of Freedom, which >choir would you choose? Probably Bright Lilim. I mean heck, the Angel of Freedom would have to contend with Lilith *anyway*, so why not someone with an extra strike against her? Mason Angel of... um... I forget. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:15:51 -0500 From: "Matthew Walsh" Subject: Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Given those two choices, I would lean more towards the Seraph ("The Truth will make you Free"). OTOH, I disagree with some of the eliminations you've already made. An Ofanite could perfectly embody the freedom to act; I can easily see a Buddhist Elohite Archangel of Freedom (concentrating on freedom from attachments, of course); and Eli's doing a pretty good imitation of a Mercurian Archangel of Freedom at the moment. - - - Matt - - - ----- Matt Walsh, B.Math, Ph.D. Everyone generalises from just one example... At least, I do. >>> dorigen@graffiti.net 01/28/03 02:43PM >>> If you were thinking of designing an angel or Archangel of Freedom, which choir would you choose? I think either a Seraph or a Malakite might work the best, and I'm leaning toward Seraph. Other choirs have their drawbacks; a Cherub might not be devoted enough to a non-concrete Word, an Ofanite wouldn't have the necessary mindset or attention span, an Elohite wouldn't be intense enough (I think Freedom would have to be intense, especially with the Word-friction involved); a Mercurian ... you have to be willing and able to fight for Freedom. And Kyriotates, interacting with the world the way they do, seem inappropriate by definition. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:59:01 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? I like the idea of this, Seraph is good, Bright Lilim -not- a good idea (Lilith would be over the girl like flies on Nuetella) but don't drop Ofanite as a potential Choir. In fact, an Ofanite would be a great idea for one, since they are concered the most with not having restrictions upon yourself to impede motion (just have the Ofanite take it metaphorically, with "Thou shall not let the chains of restriction stop thee from moving onward to your goals). In fact... lemme take a quick shot at it- Oldaia, Ofanite Archangel of Freedom "Chains, chains are upon the world. Move! Free yourself! Break way from stagnation!" Dissonance It is dissonant for a Servitor of Freedom to allow someone who is trapped or restricted in a literal or (more often) metaphorical sense to stay that way if it can be helped. If the angel willingly lets themselves be caught (unless it is to help free even more people) they will also become dissonant. Seraphim A Seraph of Freedom can use her words to break the chains of illusion and lies around a persons mind. If an idea or thought somehow prevents or traps someone, the Seraph can free the persons mind from fear of the idea by suggesting an alternative idea or solution to being trapped. Example Person: I feel trapped... I'll always have this job, and never get promoted. Seraph: Well, why don't you transfer to another part of the company up north, and try to get a promotion on a clean slate? Person: Never thought of that... I'll try it! Ugh, gotta go to class, and that was just a quick example. An Ofanite AA of Freedom would have to be carefully worked so they don't end up like Janus to much (although it would make sense for her to be a protege of Janus), but it could work. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:36:11 -0600 From: Edward Jones Subject: IN> Ascending Headaches (Greetings all--first time posting 'n' a'that, so do kindly point out any Netiquette errors on my part, mew.) I just need a quick rules clarification here, I think. Two sessions into my first attempt at GMing In Nomine, I found it a necessity to write up a "cheat sheet" for celestial abilities, with rolls and Essence required, Disturbance generated, etc. All's well and good--but I'm puzzled when it comes to assuming celestial form and ascending to the celestial plane. I'm receiving contradictory (or at least confusing) signals from within the book, and between the book and FAQ: IN, page 53: "To ascend, the angel or demon must already be in celestial form... An angel at a heavenly Tether, or a demon at his master's Tether, may ascend automatically. Anywhere else, he must make a Will roll." No mention of Essence expenditure. IN, page 66 (discussing detailed celestial combat): "You can escape celestial combat by... making a Will roll and spending 2 Essence to translate to the celestial realm". IN, page 54: Assuming celestial form "requires a Will roll, modified positively by his Celestial forces. A successful character must pay 2 Essence." No mention of Tethers. IN FAQ: "'Does a Celestial going to the Celestial Realm cause double the Disturbance (once for changing form, and again for leaving)?' Yes... The 2 Essence is added since there are times when a celestial doesn't have to spend that Essence, e.g., transforming in a Tether". My guess is that it costs 2 Essence to assume celestial form, and 2 Essence to ascend to the celestial plane. The Essence cost and the roll required are waived when the celestial is at a proper Tether, in both cases. It's never said like that anywhere, but it seems the best inference given the way the confusing statements overlap... am I thinking rightly here? - -Mew! Ed, the Sabre // Cat Galaxy Corps Interactive Fiction: The Hall of Twisted Mirrors: Death on toast. Part of this nutritious breakfast. - --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:46:13 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. >From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:34:18 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 9 >From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" >Subject: How to redeem a demon. >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:31:10 -0700 > >I need to find a way to quickly redeem three demons. They've done a few >good things, but they are, by and large, wide-eyed butchers on an Earth >joy-ride for the first time. > >First, a little backstory. Three brand-new demons (Calabite of Fire, >Shedite of Dark Humor, and Djinn of Death) were assigned to Earth for the >first time. They ripped through a small town, killed, raped, murdered, >defiled, and generally wrecked havoc. They corrupted the local sheriff, did >unspeakable things with him and his family, and killed him... and then made >him a zombie. Then they came back to earth and did even worse things >(fathers killing babies, guns opening fire in school yards, random senseless >murder) in an effort to kill ten specific people in specific ways, including >encouraging one of them to meet his Fate. > >The returned to their tether after this to go back to Hell, but were >attacked by angels, and due to a strange sequence of events, found >themselves to be the only demons left on earth after the Rapture happened. >The angels they were fighting were also left behind. > >As it turned out, Uriel had returned and sealed off Heaven and Hell while >simultaneously bringing about all the signs of Armaggedon. He's now running >amok on Earth, leveling cities and whatnot. The angels teamed up with the >demons to find a special tether to get home, but just when the angels were >activating it, they were ambushed by Uriel's Tsayadim and most of them were >killed. One even fell when his vessel was destroyed and the party had to >kill him, too. The demons tried to activate it and failed miserably, >fleeing before Uriel arrived. > >The only hope is for them to activate this tether, which will let one of the >angels go to Heaven and release the Archangels. The demons have cooperated >so far because unsealing Heaven will also unseal Hell, letting them go >home -- and they also know that failing their mission will get them killed >by Uriel. Now half of the angels are dead and there's not enough of them to >activate the tether... but if the demons somehow redeem, they could do it. > >They are planning on heading to Jerusalem, a city they know to be critical >to Uriel's plans... they know the tether (which is mobile) is being taken >there by Uriel for some reason, and they know the Anti-Christ (who the >Shedite is currently possessing, giving him dissonance each day -- ever >tried to corrupt the Anti-Christ?) is also important to the Archangel's >plans. They're considering going to the Ethereal realm for help, too. > >So... I need a way to quickly redeem three thoroughly rotten demons. > >Any ideas? > >Ben > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:23:52 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > If you were thinking of designing an angel or Archangel > of Freedom, which choir would you choose? Depends on what aspect of Freedom is the primary concern. > I think either > a Seraph or a Malakite might work the best These are actually the last two Choirs I would pick. The one is bound by Truth, the other by Honor. While it's true that voluntarily taking on certain restrictions is necessary for being truly free, the Dissonance conditions of these two Choirs make them counterintuitive choices (at least for me). > a Cherub might not be devoted enough to a non-concrete > Word ...but might be very devoted to preserving the freedom of others... > an Ofanite wouldn't have the necessary mindset or > attention span ...but would certainly appreciate the freedom of unrestricted movement. An Ofanite (Arch)Angel of Freedom would definitely be opposed to slavery and other forms of captivity. Indeed, there is potential for friction with Khalid as the Ofanite supports women's rights movements in Islamic countries -- specifically the ones geared toward making it easier for a woman to get a divorce. > an Elohite wouldn't be intense enough (I > think Freedom would have to be intense, especially with > the Word-friction involved) Agreed. > a Mercurian ... you have to > be willing and able to fight for Freedom. Mercurians are perfectly free to fight demons and uniquely suited to encourage humans to fight for themselves. > And Kyriotates, > interacting with the world the way they do, seem > inappropriate by definition. A Kyrio would appreciate freedom from captivity as much as an Ofanite would, though not with the same urgency (walls don't mean as much when you can become something that they can't contain). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:28:23 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. - --- From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" > >Subject: How to redeem a demon. > >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:31:10 -0700 > >So... I need a way to quickly redeem three thoroughly > rotten demons. If they truly are thoroughly rotten, their odds of surviving Redemption are slim to none. They've got to be repentant for the process to work. Maybe your next game should have them seeing what effects their actions have and developing some empathy for their victims. Certain Discords (Merciful and Selfless) also help here. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:36:44 -0800 (PST) From: Vaughn Romero Subject: IN> Valefor strikes again! (was RE: 2003: Fiction Piece #1) BC Petery claimed that > On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Vaughn Romero wrote: > Still, what to do? Anything she wanted, of course. That was the core of > being a Free Lilim. Do anything you want. Anything you can get away > with, that is. Actually, those are Ryan's words you're quoting (much as I'd like to claim credit for them). I'm just the guy who hijacked his story and added the Kobal dialogue to the mix. But since Liza the Lilim was born in response to my hijacking, maybe I can claim to be her Godparent or something. All I want are visitation rights (as if I needed another geas invoked on me!). So while I'm sure Valefor would be proud to see that I've stolen Ryan's identity, I'm going to give it back to him. But don't worry my fellow demons, I have a very selfish reason to do so - it's more fun to steal from someone else than to steal from oneself. I'll be hijacking poor Liza and friends later tonight or tomorrow. Until then, I offer you the poor man's guide to distinguishing Vaughn from Ryan: * The entire piece is a dialogue with no narrative text in between. Vaughn. * The piece is well written and edited by Casca. Ryan. * Kobal appears and calls himself Kaiser Soze. Vaughn. * The piece contains a well-reasoned and convincing argument that Valefor is a role for Lucifer. Ryan. This will be on the test! Vaughn "I'm not Ryan" Romero ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:21:40 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> The Prince of Peace Was a Warrior, Too >From the NY Times Online http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/28/opinion/28LOCO.html?todaysheadlines ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:00:30 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? So far, there are many votes for Seraph with a very strong Ofanite write-in. After consideration, I may add Ofanite to my choices of Seraph and Malakite. Bright Lilim, however, is Right Out. Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:38:50 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Ascending Headaches At 3:36 PM -0600 1/28/03, Edward Jones wrote: Congrats! You've found a major bug! I need to see if it got fixed in the Blue Book edition. The answer that I am, currently, going to go with what the GURPS IN stuff has -- it's 2 Essence to go celestial, and a Will roll to ascend to your Heart. Not 4 Essence total. I think that the 2 to ascend/go celestial is a glitch, from a time when it was one or the other -- and it wasn't correctly fixed in all places. (I have NEVER edited the core rules -- even the second printing, I wasn't the one doing it. (I was in the hospital with a 2-months premature kid...) It's Not My Fault! ) The FAQ should be corrected, and I need to spot all the page references for going to the celestial realm and submit them as errata on the errata page. O:p (Anyone who wants to help me -- the toddler is driving me insane at this moment -- by entering in the errata... would be most welcome. Man, that sentence sucks...) - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:25:33 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. >>From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" [...] >>So... I need a way to quickly redeem three thoroughly rotten demons. >> >>Any ideas? Ask the players, "What would it take for your character to realize the error of its ways and redeem?" That's my best guess... (You might get some surprising answers -- Shedite of Dark Humor in Haru's game went all wonky when a human _sensed_ it, and started talking to it mentally. Humans suddenly became "people" and not toys, when one acknowledge him and actually talked to him, apparently.) - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:48:28 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Dunscombe Subject: Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. I'm a surprising answer! :D (That's okay - in Changeling, I'm apparently a fetish object... so I think Changeling wins) Haru has instructed me to take this as an opportunity to plug the DGC! campaign, even though said Shedite is currently /absent/ (due to being in Heaven and all ^^). Is HERE: http://haru_in.tripod.com/indgc.html Go there! ;) --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >>From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" > [...] > >>So... I need a way to quickly redeem three > thoroughly rotten demons. > >> > >>Any ideas? > > Ask the players, "What would it take for your > character to realize the > error of its ways and redeem?" That's my best > guess... > > (You might get some surprising answers -- Shedite of > Dark Humor in > Haru's game went all wonky when a human _sensed_ it, > and started > talking to it mentally. Humans suddenly became > "people" and not > toys, when one acknowledge him and actually talked > to him, apparently.) > > -- > --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In > Nomine Line Editor > http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:57:48 -0800 (PST) From: zombi_bobb@muchneededrest.com Subject: Re: IN> Ascending Headaches The way I've understood, and run, ascending is that first you have to take celestial form. This requires the expenditure of 2 Essence and a successful Will roll. Then on the next round, assuming they achieved celestial form, another Will roll must be made (no essence is required). If that roll fails, ascension isn't possible for the listed amount of time and the celestial has to think up a new plan. One of those rolls is modified by the characters celestial forces, I forget which. Ascension is free if done in one's appropriate tether. What I want to know are the restrictions for descension. No cost, why? And how do you stop your PCs from "strike-forcing" a tether by descending into it without utterly smashing them? Jim Running my first few games I have LOTS of questions, only to find the time to ask them... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:08:04 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Dunscombe Subject: Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. I'd also like to point out that his Redemption was thoroughly /unexpected/. Kyriotates have /never/ appealed to me - I'd had thoughts of having "my character" Redeem, but always been turned off by the idea of playing a Kyriotate. The circumstance made attempting to Redeem make /so much sense/ to me, that it actually overrode that reluctance. (I'm planning on playing him in a future campaign... though I /still/ think a Kyriotate will take a lot of getting used to.) Also, you all need to read DGC to meet my shiny new Calabite of Lust! :P *is done plugging..... honest.....* > (You might get some surprising answers -- Shedite of > Dark Humor in > Haru's game went all wonky when a human _sensed_ it, > and started > talking to it mentally. Humans suddenly became > "people" and not > toys, when one acknowledge him and actually talked > to him, apparently.) > > -- > --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In > Nomine Line Editor > http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:10:28 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. >(You might get some surprising answers -- Shedite of Dark Humor in >Haru's game went all wonky when a human _sensed_ it, and started >talking to it mentally. Humans suddenly became "people" and not >toys, when one acknowledge him and actually talked to him, apparently.) Blast, my Haborim aren't gonna seem so unique now. But I'll post them anyway, when they're polished. :^) William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:17:01 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Dunscombe Subject: Re: IN> From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" - How to redeem a demon. Now I'm /curious/. :) > Blast, my Haborim aren't gonna seem so unique now. > But I'll post them > anyway, when they're polished. :^) > > William > > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:46:05 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> I'd like to apologize to Rampaging Crypto-Man in advance... ... because he asked a serious question, and I don't have a serious answer for him. I just have a somewhat silly one. :) Moe The Angelotron (8 points) This is the latest gadget from Vaputech's Division of Metaphysical Engineering (motto: "Our stuff doesn't blow up as much. More or less.") and has been getting favorable responses from the Horde. That is to say, it was deemed worthwhile to actually include comment cards with this one; some of them actually come back minus scorch marks / non-radioactive / free of various byproducts of corporeal bodily functions / without scrawled obscenities in various languages both dead and alive. That's impressive, for Vaputech. What the Angelotron does is perfectly (no, really) simulate the celestial appearance and ineffable 'signature' of the angelic counterpart of the wearer. This works everywhere, even in Heaven, costs no Essence, causes no disturbance and will fool everyone - - including, yes, Superiors who aren't making the effort to look. You'd be surprised at how often that happens. It's safe to operate, too: as far as anyone can tell, there are no hidden pitfalls to using an Angelotron. Not that an Angelotron is some sort of perfect disguise, of course. There are a few drawbacks. First off, it doesn't give the user access to the appropriate angelic resonance, or allow him, her or it to use Songs and relics that are only accessible to members of the Host. The guys at DME are working on it, but nobody's promising anything. Also, the demon's dissonance conditions are emphatically still in effect, which makes using this thing to infiltrate groups of angels or Soldiers of God risky in the long term. The guys at DME are not allowed to work on that problem... um, 'feature' ... as most of the Princes have made it clear that those conditions exist for a reason. There's also the small issue that anybody caught using an Angelotron is going to be in serious trouble with both Heaven (for obvious reasons) and Fate (Kronos doesn't approve of competition when it comes to fielding angel impersonators). Still, it's a popular item, especially since it's one of the few items that Shedim can automatically take with them whomever they go. The downsides are sufficiently mild to make an Angelotron worth it. (Pause) OK, there is one, small, practically meaningless problem. The Angelotron has been known to have, shall we say, existential issues sometimes. If its owner rolls an Intervention (either Infernal or Divine, the relic is faced with the problem of working out how to react to it. Unfortunately, despite the best efforts of the guys at DME its standard method of dealing with such an insoluble problem is to explode. This will cause 4d6 damage (of the same type as the current plane) (in the case of a Divine Intervention), which is usually bad, and always immediately break the illusion, which is sometimes worse. This makes infiltration of Heaven problematical, as Divine Interventions tend to show up quite often up there: worse, a demon suddenly exposed to the Light of Heaven because of the disintegration of an Angelotron takes damage for the next ten rounds as if he, she or it were in the locus of a Heavenly Tether. Yes, this would look exactly like someone 'burning with goodness' because, well, it's essentially what's happening. Still, worth it, right? ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/21/03 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 04:47:46 -0500 (EST) From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Ascending Headaches >>And how do you stop your PCs from "strike-forcing" a tether by descending into it without utterly smashing them? You invoke the Common Sense clause. Point out that while they don't mind doing that, their characters would be rather uncomfortable in diving into Hell. Let's not forget the other problems that would be associated with it; they are going to have to face their Superiors and the Inquisition will be quite interested in knowing why angels are jumping into Hell. But if that fails to persuade them, they get to face opposition in Hell. Very TOUGH opposition that is going to reduce them to feathered smears on the ground. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:07:46 EST From: TWISTEDKUB@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> How much do celestials know about each other's abilities? Neelakantan Krishnaswami wrote: << This way, what the PCs do -- go back and get more data -- will correspond well to what the players do -- flip through the rulebook looking for attunements that match. As long as the players are having fun arguing about which Prince a demon serves, I'll let them argue. If it's bogging the game down, I'll feel free to tell one of the players, "Your PC recall that Habbalah of Nightmares are capable of moving phobias around between people." >> << I would *not* bother with an Angelology or Demonology skill. Since most of the PCs are celestials, that's something that plays a lot better as a networking thing. >> Actually, I don't find that it adds to the "fun" of my game when my players are flipping through books. I think that we all waste too much time as it is during the session. Heh. So I'd rather just tell them straight-out (if they make a die-roll) "You recall that a calabite of Baal can do x". One of the suggestions made so far was to allow a simple Intelligence roll to see if a player knows something. That makes sense. Simple resonances, and well-known "offensive abilities" (as some people have pointed out), will be rolled against unmodified intelligence. An appropriate die-roll penalty can then be applied to knowing more obscure celestial abilities. However, I've allowed one of my players, the malakite of the group, to have a "Knowledge--Demonology" skill. I did this because it makes a lot of sense (as someone else pointed out) that of all angels, malakim might undergo specialized "training" to recognize demon resonances/attunements. For my malakite player, this adds to the fun of the game, because it gives him a "special skill": he is the "expert" on demons in the party. For really obscure facts, his "Knowledge--Demonology" skill will have to be rolled at a penalty; but for most things demonological, he'll roll it unmodified. Thanks for all the responses, Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:40:55 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? At 08:00 +0800 01/29/2003, Janet Anderson wrote: >So far, there are many votes for Seraph with a very strong Ofanite write-in. After consideration, I may add Ofanite to my choices of Seraph and Malakite. Bright Lilim, however, is Right Out. I would also recommend Ofanite; I can easily see such evolving out of a Servitor of the Wind. I can't see a Malakite, with their binding oaths and codes, taking the Word of Freedom, though I could see one taking related Words that had more restricted scope. For some reason, Seraph doesn't appeal to me, nor do most of the other Choirs. I do like the notion of a Kyrio as a dark-horse candidate, though. I agree that Bright Lilim is inappropriate; for one thing, I can't see even a Bright encroaching on her mother's Word. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:57:57 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? >At 08:00 +0800 01/29/2003, Janet Anderson wrote: >>So far, there are many votes for Seraph with a very strong Ofanite write-in. After consideration, I may add Ofanite to my choices of Seraph and Malakite. Bright Lilim, however, is Right Out. > >I would also recommend Ofanite; I can easily see such evolving out of a >Servitor of the Wind. I can't see a Malakite, with their binding oaths and >codes, taking the Word of Freedom, though I could see one taking related >Words that had more restricted scope. How about the Choir no one's looking at? No one notices. Has complete autonomy. And has been ignored by both sides for millennia? Course, getting a Grigori up to Heaven to be Word-bound could be difficult, but I bet Eli could pull it off. And a Grigori would probably interpret her Word as making sure that humans remain free from interference from either side. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:08:18 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Josh Moger wrote: "Course, getting a Grigori up to Heaven to be Word-bound could be difficult, but I bet Eli could pull it off." You don't even need to do that. God Himself still bestows Words. (Says so in the GMG.) There could be a Grigori angel or Archangel of Freedom out there without Heaven or Hell even knowing. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:36:46 +0100 From: shadur@systemec.nl (Rens Houben) Subject: Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? In other news for Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 10:08:18AM -0500, Wajenberg, Earl has been seen typing: > There could be a Grigori angel or Archangel of Freedom out > there without Heaven or Hell even knowing. Well, Lilith would know the moment Word friction sets in, but she might not choose to share that information for reasons of her own... > Earl Shad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:37:29 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? From: "Josh Moger" > > How about the Choir no one's looking at? When I read this, I thought "Why not one of the Menunim?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:56:36 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Hmm. Without Heaven or Hell knowing.... Nybbas petitions an Balseraph of the Lust (just to pick a somewhat reasonable sup & band) to the word of freedom. Lucifer grants the word only to see the demon spontaneously explode when the word conflict with a previously unknown Gregori Archangel of Freedom kicks in... > -----Original Message----- > From: Wajenberg, Earl [mailto:ewajenberg@mc.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:08 AM > To: 'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com' > Subject: RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? > > > Josh Moger wrote: > > "Course, getting a Grigori up to Heaven to be Word-bound > could be difficult, > but I bet Eli could pull it off." > > You don't even need to do that. God Himself still bestows > Words. (Says so > in the GMG.) There could be a Grigori angel or Archangel of > Freedom out > there without Heaven or Hell even knowing. > > Earl > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:14:45 -0500 From: Joe Reimers Subject: Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? At 03:43 AM 1/29/2003 +0800, you wrote: >If you were thinking of designing an angel or Archangel of Freedom, which >choir would you choose? I think either a Seraph or a Malakite might work >the best, and I'm leaning toward Seraph. I'm not sure I even like the idea of an AA of Freedom. Freedom, at its core, can be both a positive and a negative, but it is always a mixed blessing. We as humans and especially the Americans among us tend to view freedom as a very positive, beneficial thing, with many accompanying responsibilities. Angels would tend to see it differently. At their very core, angels submit to the higher will. One key aspect of angelic nature indicated in the main book is that angels are unselfish: they put the good of many ahead of their own good. This is directly contrary to the notion of Freedom. Angels cannot grasp the concept of Free Will. It is perplexing and contrary to their natures. In fact, it was Free Will which led to Lilith's Fall. Remember that Lilith does not belong to any actual Choir or Band, she was a prototype human. Remember also that her Word does not only encompass the negative aspects of freedom (such as anarchy) but also the positive (such as the overthrow of a dictatorship in favor of democracy.) I also get the impression that Lilith is only on the Infernal side because Lucifer offered her a Principality, whereas the Seraphim Council saw her exercise of Free Will as a rejection of God and wanted nothing to do with her. Left to her own devices, I believe she'd much prefer to play both sides of the fence, as it were (or, in her own words, keep her options open.) This has turned into a much longer dissertation than I intended, but my basic point is that I don't think the Word of Freedom could possibly be held by any AA unless there were a proto-human counterpart to Lilith. Angels don't embrace Freedom, and the aspects of Freedom angels do embrace are already represented rather well by Jordi, Janus, Novalis and, to a degree, Marc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:17:50 +0800 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> New players (still) wanted for PBEM Some time ago, I posted a request for new players for my In Nomine PBEM. I received several replies, but then they all disappeared, changed their minds, had computer issues, etc. Therefore, I am requesting one or two new players for my Bright, Angelic, Canon, High-Contrast, High-Roleplaying In Nomine PBEM. It is run by e-mail on Tuesdays and Thursdays between 9:00 and 11:30 pm EST. Please contact me at dorigen@graffiti.net with questions and character concepts. No PC Kyriotates or Bright Lilim, please. Janet Anderson ************************************************* Seraph: What do we want to do if he turns out to be an infernal? Malakite: I'm kinda hoping we don't find that out definitively. Leaving a long string of bodies behind us isn't a really good idea. - -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:28:53 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? At 11:14 AM 1/29/2003 -0500, Joe Reimers wrote: >Angels would tend to see it differently. Do remember to turn the non-canon light off when you're finished. :) The fact that an angel is selfless does not predicate that he is lacking free will. The defining factor is (usually) whether acts are predetermined by God and the Symphony. Even someone who has been forced to serve others throughout his entire life is not denied free will; "serve or die" is still a choice, albeit not a tasteful one. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:31:59 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: Recall: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG would like to recall the message, "IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom?". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:33:55 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? Oops. This message is obviously about some other symphony in the Corpus where Lilith was never made Demon Princess of Freedom. > -----Original Message----- > From: Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:57 AM > To: 'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com' > Subject: RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? > > > Hmm. Without Heaven or Hell knowing.... > > Nybbas petitions an Balseraph of the Lust (just to pick a somewhat > reasonable sup & band) to the word of freedom. Lucifer grants > the word only > to see > the demon spontaneously explode when the word conflict with a > previously > unknown Gregori Archangel of Freedom kicks in... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wajenberg, Earl [mailto:ewajenberg@mc.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:08 AM > > To: 'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com' > > Subject: RE: IN> Angel (or Archangel) of Freedom? > > > > > > Josh Moger wrote: > > > > "Course, getting a Grigori up to Heaven to be Word-bound > > could be difficult, > > but I bet Eli could pull it off." > > > > You don't even need to do that. God Himself still bestows > > Words. (Says so > > in the GMG.) There could be a Grigori angel or Archangel of > > Freedom out > > there without Heaven or Hell even knowing. > > > > Earl > > > ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2949 ********************************