in_nomine-digest Tuesday, February 4 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2955 In this digest: Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. IN> Fiction: A Word IN> Silly, powerful artifact IN> This is all SD's fault. Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. Re: IN> Fiction: A Word Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. Re: IN> Fiction: A Word Re: IN> Fiction: A Word Re: IN> Fiction: A Word IN> The Chapel of Lost Familiars Re: IN> Fiction: A Word Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. Re: IN> The Chapel of Lost Familiars Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. IN> Lilith and Soldiers Re: IN> Lilith and Soldiers Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. Re: IN> Lilith and Soldiers IN> Re: Beleth & Blandine (was Fiction: A Word) IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. RE: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. RE: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Re: IN> Fiction: A Word Re: IN> Lilith and Soldiers Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. RE: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Re: IN> Fiction: A Word Re: IN> Fiction: A Word ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:55:37 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. > Hmmm. I rather like this, though the idea that a lesser >Celestial could stand up to a Superior in a battle of >Word-friction does strain one's ability to suspend disbelief. Well, here's the way I was thinking when I came up with the idea of Clare. (Though everything except name, Word, and Choir is all EDG's. ^^) 1 - Gabriel and Belial are /both/ experiencing Superior-level Word-friction, accompanied by any number of other stresses, and both are deliberately attacking each other with everything they've got. They're also innately violent/damaging natures: Gabriel is punishment nowadays, and Belial /is/ destructive Fire. Nybbas vs Clare, OTOH, is an Impudite vs a Mercurian - if they're going to eliminate someone, they'll do it /subtly/, and they'd rather not kill unless it's absolutely necessary - and Nybbas isn't experiencing anything /openly/ strong enough to push back at Clare as hard as he might otherwise. Clare /is/ experiencing Superior-level Word-friction, but it's more...absentminded/unfocused, little bits of the Infernal Media slipping in around the edges. Harder to fight in the long term, but not crippling in the short term. 2 - ...Does Nybbas even know that Clare /exists/, or just that something odd is going on in his head? The bits about "cease and desist orders" seems like Nybbas knows, but a lot of the pre-Clare-writeup part of this seed seems like he's clueless. In which case, again, he's not hitting back with more than vague reflex. 3 - Clare just has to be able to think mostly clearly and work in the corporeal realm, really. She doesn't have to have hit a stalemate, much less be hurting Nybbas in more than the aforementioned 'sneaking in around the edges' way. I know other people have written up Servitor celestials with Superiors' Words that could survive at least for a /while/: the Demon of Flowers comes to mind. Sure, she was badly Discordant - but she was also, if memory serves, /not/ willingly entering the Word-conflict, and might not even have fully realized what was happening, whereas Novalis /did/ have a good idea. Just my opinions on the subject. I think it's /possible/. It just won't last forever, and is very very likely to wind up with Clare's Fall if she doesn't arrange for Nybbas' death or Redemption first. ~S.D. Ryukage ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:58:55 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. From: "S.D." > > 1 - Gabriel and Belial are /both/ experiencing Superior-level > Word-friction, accompanied by any number of other > stresses, and both are deliberately attacking each other with > everything they've got. One thing that amuses me about the Gabriel/Belial fued is that neither can use its most potent weapon against the other - they're both immune to damage from fire, after all. Nicely ironic, neh? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:56:06 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Fiction: A Word Wait... Beleth wasn't always a spider? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:56:09 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Silly, powerful artifact So it was Essence, and not magic, in that old silk hat they found. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:56:09 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> This is all SD's fault. > Hmmm. I rather like this, though the idea that a lesser > Celestial could stand up to a Superior in a battle of > Word-friction does strain one's ability to suspend disbelief. IIRC, a Superior suffers more from performing dissonant actions. It might also explain why a (relative) punk like Belial can "keep on keeping on" while Gabrielle goes kooky. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:00:51 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. - --- BC Petery wrote: > IIRC, a Superior suffers more from performing dissonant > actions. It might > also explain why a (relative) punk like Belial can "keep > on keeping on" while Gabrielle goes kooky. But remember the other possible example of Superior Word-friction; Saminga is stark raving bonkers, and the AA of Death is canon (and probably no piker himself). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:08:21 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Fiction: A Word >Wait... Beleth wasn't always a spider? > Is it stated in canon that she is? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:18:19 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. > > But remember the other possible example of Superior >Word-friction; Saminga is stark raving bonkers, and the AA >of Death is canon (and probably no piker himself). > I would also say that it has to depend on the Word itself. Death and Fire are two words that can very easily grate if two celestials share them. Nybbas and Media itself are a bit more passive, and while still friction producing really wouldn't cause active pain on the celestials involved- unless the intruding celestial *broadcasts* her presence. Hmmph. Sorry. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:00:51 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. - --- BC Petery wrote: > IIRC, a Superior suffers more from performing dissonant > actions. It might > also explain why a (relative) punk like Belial can "keep > on keeping on" while Gabrielle goes kooky. But remember the other possible example of Superior Word-friction; Saminga is stark raving bonkers, and the AA of Death is canon (and probably no piker himself). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:17:31 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> Fiction: A Word Hrm...I never really knew what Beleth was supposed to look like (I haven't really read her expanded write-up) so I just picked an animal type that I thought was appropriate. I also thought a black panther would paralell Blandine's white wolf form nicely. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "BC Petery" To: "In Nomine" Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 2:56 PM Subject: IN> Fiction: A Word > Wait... Beleth wasn't always a spider? > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:06:49 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Dunscombe Subject: Re: IN> Fiction: A Word > > Wait... Beleth wasn't always a spider? Has it ever established that the /Cherub/ Beleth was a spider? The appearance of a celestial changes when it Falls, and while I think it'd be /reasonable/ for the Djinn form to contain a certain amount of the animal from the Cherub's celestial form, I'm guessing that's by no means cut and dried. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:33:47 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Fiction: A Word >> > Wait... Beleth wasn't always a spider? > >Has it ever established that the /Cherub/ Beleth was a >spider? It's never been established that /either/ Beleth is spiderform. Unless this shows up in The Marches or something like that. ...in fact, the /only/ Superiors I can think of as having a canonical Celform description, offhand, are Dominic (but that's just the Cloak and the many red eyes) and the Princes in S4, plus a few standard traits like Lilith's gown of Geas-gems. Spider!Beleth is just a popular theory - originated, AFAIK, by Tattered Symphony. (At least, that's where /I/ first saw it.) ~S.D. Ryukage ***************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 11:18:55 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> The Chapel of Lost Familiars The smell is the first thing to strike you - the unpleasant odour of thousands of verminous animals. Above you, bats wheel through the chapel, gliding down to the countless cages of the other creatures, before their pinions bear them up to their own cages in the belfry - unless one decides that flying into your face would be amusing. Flinching from the bats, knowing that no real bat would make that mistake, you see a cat prowling in its cage, hellish eyes focused on the rat in the next cage. Suddenly the rat ceases cowering, and leaps to the door - its paws work an incredibly complicated puzzle lock fiendishly swiftly, and the rat scuttles free; racing across the floor it reaches a rat hole and begins the torturous climb to the belfry, to reply to the message from the bat. When next you patrol this aisle, the rat will have returned, locked itself in, and will once again be cowering from the cat - unless the cat has freed itself and is delivering a message. Behind you you hear a sharp squeak - another rat, a new one, has seen his compatriot 'escape' and sought to work his own puzzle lock - and received a light electric shock for his pains. He can barely be heard over the din; animals complaining, begging to be released - sometimes with their animal yowls, more often in Helltongue. You will probably be on duty here for years - but then this is a punishment assignment. You really shouldn't have ticked off your Superior, Novalis... Kyriotates often need to get in contact with each in a hurry, but are low on free Forces for either possessing a host or taking Celestial form. They also have a habit of picking up the Vessels of Infernals, and not knowing what to do with them when they've finished their current task. The Chapel of Lost Familiars deals with both problems. Possessed Familiars (and Remnants) are brought here and caged; as they only possess a couple of Forces they are easily repossessed by Kyriotates whenever they wish to leave a message for their comrades; as angels can use their resonances via photographs and demons cannot, access is quite secure. Although living in the cages is far from ideal, it is preferable to suffering the whims of demonic or sorcerous master, so dissonance is not a problem. Leaving messages is the biggest problem. Most of the familiars lack the manual dexterity to write, and the din makes tape recordings impractical. Generally the Kyriotates arrange beforehand to meet in the Chapel (sound proofed rooms are available for conferences) or leave a token with their personal symbol, indicating the need to talk. The Chapel is maintained by Novalis; it provides a useful service to Heaven which would not be possible if the demonlings had been Vessel-killed, and so furthers her goals - to the limits of the demonlings potential. The demonlings lack the potential to Redeem, which is why they are left caged here; Novalis hopes that over time, the demonlings can slowly grow to the point where they can understand the concept. Of course, every time a demonling is possessed, it is projected to the base of Beleth's Tower, making attempts to Redeem them before the end of the War an unnecessary risk. Kyriotates of every Superior use the Chapel, and it has existed for millennia, and so is filled with tens of thousands of Familiars and Remnants, all of them written off as dead by Hell. They're simply too insignificant to be worth the effort of rescuing. Even Superiors normally hostile to Novalis use the Chapel (it does prevent their Servitors getting dissonance, after all) so the wardens (generally Novalians who have been too violent for her liking) must deal with War faction angels 'buzzing' them with possessed bats and birds - 'just making sure that you're staying alert...' It is punishment duty to be assigned here, after all! Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:35:39 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Fiction: A Word >Wait... Beleth wasn't always a spider? A spider? We have no canon on this, but Beth -- with non-canon hat on -- has described some of her personal notions. To recap these: Asmodeus: gigerized Chinese dragon, with lots of drippy and twisty bits (unFallen Asmodeus: probably like a Chinese dragon) Blandine: snow-leopard Beleth: mutated panther (unFallen Beleth: presumably a nicer panther?) Novalis: ladybug <<-- this is just plain cool to me. :^) Assume everything has the appropriate wings tacked on somewhere. Not covered: minor Archangels and Princes, David before becoming Malakite. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:37:01 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. - --- Josh Moger wrote: > Nybbas and Media itself are a bit more passive, and while > still friction > producing really wouldn't cause active pain on the > celestials involved- > unless the intruding celestial *broadcasts* her presence. No need to apologize. I generally *screen* out bad puns. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:41:04 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Chapel of Lost Familiars This is truly icky. Note to PC's: don't piss Novalis off! =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:35:04 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. - --- EDG wrote: > Without further ado, I present Finally was able to read it. Pretty cute, although I'm wondering how long a Word-bound will last against a Prince... but you've already heard that, right? Fun idea, though. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/21/03 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:41:26 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. - --- "S.D." wrote: > I know other > people have written up Servitor celestials with > Superiors' Words that could survive at least for a > /while/: the Demon of Flowers comes to mind. Sure, > she was badly Discordant - but she was also, if > memory serves, /not/ willingly entering the > Word-conflict, and might not even have fully > realized what was happening, whereas Novalis /did/ > have a good idea. If you're talking about mine, hoo yeah on the involuntary part - then again, /that/ experiment of Kronos' was more an exercise in applied scientific cruelty than anything else. I've never really considered how a Superior/nonSuperior Word Friction might survive absent outside intervention (pardon the pun): I'll have to think about it for a while. Thanks! Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 01/21/03 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:55:31 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: IN> Lilith and Soldiers Hi. Assume, for the sake of discussion, that are not only sworn into the service of Heaven or Hell, but actually sworn to the service of specific superiors (whether they know it or not, and to what degrees they are actively aware of celestial politics and other issues is left as irrelevant for the moment), or perhaps in service to Words. As i understand it, Lillith has no servants in the same sense that other Princes do (when she needs, say a Djinn, she just tugs on the appropriate Geas Hook and reels it in). It may be, also, that by virtue of not being a Demon (though still a princess, with all that entails) she may not be able to do whatever it takes to make a Demon of any sort other than Lilim. Would she still accept Soldiers into her Service? -Daiv, Tech writer in sevice to coffee. beat the spiders off with a full cup of coffee frying pan and fire - -Daiv David M. Barr daiv@cruzio.com YIM Daivbear AIM Drnknmstrhkugk H (831)477-0539 C (831)566-2237 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:19:36 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith and Soldiers > Would she still accept Soldiers into her Service? I should think she'd be *more* willing to take Soldiers than most Princes. First off, they're humans and she has a higher opinion of humanity (some parts of it, at least) than demons. Second, if they're Hellsworn they chose to be Hellsworn. Finally, she would like best of all natural Soldiers who willingly serve her. William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:38:32 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> This is all SD's fault. >> I know other >> people have written up Servitor celestials with >> Superiors' Words that could survive at least for a >> /while/: the Demon of Flowers comes to mind. Sure, >> she was badly Discordant - but she was also, if >> memory serves, /not/ willingly entering the >> Word-conflict, and might not even have fully >> realized what was happening, whereas Novalis /did/ >> have a good idea. > >If you're talking about mine, hoo yeah on the >involuntary part - then again, /that/ experiment of >Kronos' was more an exercise in applied scientific >cruelty than anything else. [grins] That's the one. I couldn't remember the whole writeup offhand, though a couple key points of contrast between your Flowers and EDG's Media: - - Flowers is demon-vs-AA, Media is angel-vs-Prince. The angels have the True Symphony backing them up, while the demons just have their personal symphony. - - Media was freely chosen by Clare, knowing the dangers; Flowers was forced on the Djinn by Kronos. Clare had time to prepare, and has angels and most likely at least Marc to back her up and offer support. - - Clare's more experienced in general than the Djinn was, and has an actual sort of /plan/ to deal with things. The Demon of Flowers just had a Kronos-servitor's, well, Fatalism. - - Nybbas doesn't know what Clare's doing to him. See earlier post about why Clare could almost definitely last with /most/ of her stability for a notable length of time (though I still think, if this less-'stalemate'-than-'one-sided-fight-and-one-sided-ignoring'-at-all were to continue /past/ that time period, Clare would wind up Fallen or soul-killed before she could Fall, purely because there's /more/ of Nybbas' Word than there is of hers.) > I've never really >considered how a Superior/nonSuperior Word Friction >might survive absent outside intervention (pardon the >pun): I'll have to think about it for a while. >Thanks! [grins] Oh, I'm /always/ glad to give people ideas. ^^ [points at the topic of this e-mail for proof!] ~S.D. Ryukage ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:50:48 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Lilith and Soldiers - --- Daiv wrote: > As i understand it, Lillith has no servants in the > same sense that other Princes do [snip] Would she still > accept Soldiers into her Service? I'm sure that she would. Humans can do things that no demon, even a Prince, can (i.e. cause corporeal damage, kill mortals or enter the Corporeal Plane without causing Disturbance). Lilith probably retains some of those abilities, but you know how she hates to get her own hands dirty... =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:46:52 -0500 (EST) From: Diane J Donaldson Subject: IN> Re: Beleth & Blandine (was Fiction: A Word) IMC, Blandine's animal form is a luna moth, whose wing spots reflect the phases of the moon. Beleth is now a very twisted version of the lion she once was, with suggestions of tentacles and glowing red eyes and things you don't want to look at too closely. Part of the ruins of the first tower, mentioned in Superiors 3, is a statue "And Thou Shalt Walk in the Terror of the Lord". It's supposedly well-known among Blandine's servitors, but no description is attached. Since I have a servitor of Blandine, I gave it one. Originally the statue was of the animal forms of Beleth and Blandine. The stone is blue-gray-green, and used to shine with its own light. Beleth was looking up, with one paw upraised to partially shield her face. Blandine hovered close to that paw. When it fell with the destruction of the tower, the face of the lion was destroyed, and the wings and the upraised paw broken from the body. Blandine's servitors say that the moth still hangs above the marches as it always did, although it is almost never seen. djd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:19:52 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. I was thinking about what was said about attunements and the breaking of a Cherub's attunements. Blandine is a Cherub and Beleth once was. Since they were the definition of Love (to paraphrase both Canon and the recent story about Yves) I would believe that would attune to each other at some point during the time before the fall. Now I don't know if Blandine would have had the opportunity during the fall to remove the attunement to Beleth, but even if she did, she may not have wanted to, given that at the time she was still Worded to hope (And her current connection to Beleth is based as much on hope as love). So if so she knows where Beleth is at all times. This is further supported by the indication (at least in the non-canon stuff) that she knows when Beleth is standing in her tower looking toward her... (and given all of the dreamscapes/etheral stuff in between that must not be easy any other way). Now for Beleth. She seems to have the same ability as Blandine to know when her opposite is standing in her tower. *BUT*, Beleth is a Djinn and Djinn's attunements are temporary. So how does she have this ability? While theoretically she could be renewing it, if she and Blandine do come into contact often enough for the attunement to be renewed, things are definately different in the marches than people have been led to think... There is another explanation to this it seems. The only ways listed to break a Cherub's attunenemts is by touching the object of the attunement or by an intervention. Note: The Cherub falling is *not* listed there. Therefore: it would seem to be in canon that any attunements that a Cherub has when it falls are continued under the same rules as were true while the Djinn was a Cherub in that they do not automatically expire. (in meta-game terms there was no days determined by check digit when the original roll was made) It also makes sense in game terms. Randy Finder randolph.finder@ngb.army.mil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:30:13 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: RE: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Note, if I've screwed up anything in here apologies, but I thought it was an interesting result and could be interesting in backgrounds for Fallen Djinns... Also, I wonder if any Cherub in Heaven attuned to Lucifer before the fall... > -----Original Message----- > From: Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:20 AM > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. > > > I was thinking about what was said about attunements and the > breaking of a > Cherub's attunements. Blandine is a Cherub and Beleth once > was. Since they > were the definition of Love (to paraphrase both Canon and the > recent story > about Yves) I would believe that would attune to each other > at some point > during the time before the fall. > > Now I don't know if Blandine would have had the opportunity > during the fall > to remove the attunement to Beleth, but even if she did, she > may not have > wanted to, given that at the time she was still Worded to > hope (And her > current connection to Beleth is based as much on hope as > love). So if so she > knows where Beleth is at all times. This is further supported by the > indication (at least in the non-canon stuff) that she knows > when Beleth is > standing in her tower looking toward her... (and given all of the > dreamscapes/etheral stuff in between that must not be easy > any other way). > > Now for Beleth. She seems to have the same ability as > Blandine to know when > her opposite is standing in her tower. *BUT*, Beleth is a > Djinn and Djinn's > attunements are temporary. So how does she have this ability? While > theoretically she could be renewing it, if she and Blandine > do come into > contact often enough for the attunement to be renewed, things > are definately > different in the marches than people have been led to think... > > There is another explanation to this it seems. The only ways > listed to break > a Cherub's attunenemts is by touching the object of the > attunement or by an > intervention. Note: The Cherub falling is *not* listed there. > > Therefore: it would seem to be in canon that any attunements > that a Cherub > has when it falls are continued under the same rules as were > true while the > Djinn was a Cherub in that they do not automatically expire. > > (in meta-game terms there was no days determined by check > digit when the > original roll was made) It also makes sense in game terms. > > > > > > Randy Finder > randolph.finder@ngb.army.mil > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 11:28:54 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. At 11:19 AM 2/4/2003 -0500, Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG wrote: >There is another explanation to this it seems. The only ways listed to break >a Cherub's attunenemts is by touching the object of the attunement or by an >intervention. Note: The Cherub falling is *not* listed there. This would make Cherubim the *only Choir ever* to keep its resonance when it Falls, which makes little sense to me. >Therefore: it would seem to be in canon that any attunements that a Cherub >has when it falls are continued under the same rules as were true while the >Djinn was a Cherub in that they do not automatically expire. Not "in canon". "Supported by a throw-away flavor comment in canon". Beleth is a Superior. This means that she has the Superior-level version of her Band's resonance - which may mean that her attunements simply don't expire (or that, because she *is* a Superior and has her Word to support her, her resonance check digit is effectively an irrational number). Under this hypothesis, if Beleth and Blandine had *ever* met in the last twenty thousand years or so, Beleth might still have a tag on Blandine. Another explanation is that no resonance comes into play at all, and Beleth just has an amazingly good telescope. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:27:41 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG wrote: > Now for Beleth. She seems to have the same ability as Blandine to know when > her opposite is standing in her tower. *BUT*, Beleth is a Djinn and Djinn's > attunements are temporary. So how does she have this ability? While Hm. I thought the CD6 result for djinn and cherubim was the same, namely permanent attunement? I have no books here, so I can't check whether I've been hallucinating this. :) - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:38:58 +0100 (CET) From: Unni Solaas Subject: RE: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG wrote: > Also, I wonder if any Cherub in Heaven attuned to Lucifer before the fall... > Azazel may have. He is mentioned as being a djinn and Lucifer's personal secretary in the IPG. No title or formal rank doodah's, but he gets treaded with the utmost respect all the same. He may well have been the last Cherub in Hell* to turn djinn. All he wants is to do his job, which is looking after the Boss. He cares sod all for anything else. *)I kinda like the thought that not all of the (ex-)angels who followed Lucifer into exile Fell at once. There's the early years in Hell that noone wants to talk about, where wars were fought and borders lined up... Some of his followers may have been idealists who wanted to make a new, perfect Heaven. They got a nasty surprise. Locked in in Hell they would eventually have to Turn or die. - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 11:16:35 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. > *)I kinda like the thought that not all of the (ex-)angels who followed > Lucifer into exile Fell at once. There's the early years in Hell that > noone wants to talk about, where wars were fought and borders lined up... > Some of his followers may have been idealists who wanted to make a new, > perfect Heaven. They got a nasty surprise. Locked in in Hell they would > eventually have to Turn or die. > I also enjoy this thought, that maybe not everyone was damned when they followed Lucifer to Hell, that some went of Free Will. I can imagine Azazel -still- being a Cherub, even today, still attuned to Lucifer and doing his bidding, maybe carrying an artifact that masks any disurbance he makes as an angel in Hell. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:15:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fiction: A Word At 9:35 PM -0500 2/3/03, William J. Keith wrote: [Beth's Ideas With NON-CANON hat on] >Blandine: snow-leopard >Beleth: mutated panther >(unFallen Beleth: presumably a nicer panther?) *nod* The "crystal spider" image is pretty, er, compelling for Tattered, mind. And who knows what it was before -- Superiors might well change their forms as their personalities change... >Novalis: ladybug <<-- this is just plain cool to me. :^) With the feathered wings under the carapace. There's a sketch of that somewhere, and it highly tickles me. >Assume everything has the appropriate wings tacked on somewhere. Not >covered: minor Archangels and Princes, David before becoming Malakite. For some reason, perhaps the "bare"/"bear" pun, I think of Cherub-David as ursine. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:16:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilith and Soldiers At 11:19 PM -0500 2/3/03, William J. Keith wrote: >[...] Finally, she would like best of all natural >Soldiers who willingly serve her. I believe there's a fellow in the Liber Servitorum, Charlie Yellow, if my mind does not fail me there, who qualifies rather well. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:20:57 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. At 11:19 AM -0500 2/4/03, Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG wrote: >[...] Beleth is a Djinn and Djinn's >attunements are temporary. Except a check digit 6, in which case it IS permanent. p. 144, first paragraph, fourth sentence. And when you reply to something, ESPECIALLY something you wrote, PLEASE REMEMBER TO TRIM. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:38:41 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: RE: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. :( ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:41:09 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. - --- "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" wrote: > There is another explanation to this it seems. The only > ways listed to break > a Cherub's attunenemts is by touching the object of the > attunement or by an > intervention. Note: The Cherub falling is *not* listed > there. _Interesting_ point. The one objection I would have is that Falling/Redeeming removes all of a Celestial's Attunements and Distinctions as well as fundamentally altering its Resonance. It seems to me that Cherubic/Djinnish Attunements wouldn't survive that process either -- unless perhaps the failed Dissonance roll that led to a Cherub Falling was an Intervention. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:52:03 -0800 From: Harukami Subject: Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. Randy Finder wrote: >> a Cherub's attunenemts is by touching the object of the >> attunement or by an >> intervention. Note: The Cherub falling is *not* listed >> there. Followed by Michael Walton writing: > _Interesting_ point. The one objection I would have is >that Falling/Redeeming removes all of a Celestial's >Attunements and Distinctions as well as fundamentally >altering its Resonance. Now for me, a Cherub keeping its Attunements after it falls captures the *spirit* of the demon concept, if not the letter. Imagine... you're a normal human. You've got this guardian angel type figure... he's always there, always taking care of you, protecting you from harm. Listening to you when you're down, fighting off attackers, loving you. But... something seems to be wrong. You cry on his shoulder and he goes 'huh', and doesn't say anything else. Doesn't pat your back. That's just the start. It's like... he's following you around. You call to him for help and he just leans against the wall and watches. You get phone calls at odd hours, "I'm watching you." Every time you turn around, it's like there's someone watching you, though you can't see them. You can't get away. He's always there. You can't get away. ...is how I see it, anyway. ^_~ I suppose a Djinn can always reattune to someone they were Attuned to *before* they Fell, just so they can prove to themselves they don't still care about that person. Harukami - ---- "...hmm, that's interesting. 'He filled the car with jugs of gasoline mixed with gunpowder and drove it into the wall at 120 mph, with his seatbelt buckled...'" http://haru_in.tripod.com/ Haru's IN page: Game logs, art, and fiction. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 13:27:02 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. From: "EDG" > > This would make Cherubim the *only Choir ever* to keep its resonance when > it Falls, which makes little sense to me. Although some of the mechanical aspects of the resonance change, the underlying resonance itself does not. Both Cherubim and Djinn resonate by attuning themselves to others, after all. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:42:34 -0800 From: "Phillip DesJardins" Subject: Re: IN> Attuned Blandine/Beleth and results.. > Both Cherubim and Djinn resonate by > attuning themselves to others, after all. I would say that any Cherub would be able to tell you the difference (and might get a little offended by that comment). A Cherub attunes himself by Perception: he is watching the aspect of the Symphony that is their attuned, and this comes with the implied obligation to look out for the subject of their attentions. A Djinn's attunement is Will-based: he is invading that persons' life, bringing them inside their Symphony. No matter what the attuned does, he can't escape the Djinn because he is, in a sense, -inside- the Djinn at all times. This also means that the Djinn can't directly harm the attuned; the act is comparable to a small act of self-mutilation. Just a thought. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:03:20 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Fiction: A Word From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > > *nod* The "crystal spider" image is pretty, er, compelling for > Tattered, mind. I've always liked it, even before Tattered came about - it's just a very compelling mental image for me where the word of Fear is concerned. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 15:33:12 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> Fiction: A Word > > Assume everything has the appropriate wings tacked on somewhere. Not > covered: minor Archangels and Princes, David before becoming Malakite. > Here's some of my notions for Minor Superior Cherubim (since I can't recall any minor Djinn Superiors) Christopher--A teddy bear. A big teddy bear. He's fuzzy too, and his wings are very large and poofy. However, when he's in a more militant phase (which I would assume rarely happens) he takes on the form of a grizzly, since grizzlies are very protective of their young. Zadkiel--Hrm. Perhaps a lioness. Lionesses are social animals, and Zadkiel is fond of humans working together for mutual protection IMHO. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2955 ********************************