in_nomine-digest Monday, February 10 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2960 In this digest: Re: IN> INverse Superior: (Part II) Laurence, Impudite Demon Prince of the Blade Re: IN> INverse Superior: (Part II) Laurence, Impudite Demon Prince of the Blade Re: IN> INverse Superior: (Part II) Laurence, Impudite Demon Prince of the Blade IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Greetings from the Corporeal Realm Re: IN> INverse Superior: (Part II) Laurence, Impudite Demon Prince of the Blade Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) IN> New auction ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 11:29:28 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: (Part II) Laurence, Impudite Demon Prince of the Blade > > Should read, "the more rarified the emotion becomes." Ah, that's the word I'm looking for. Thanks. > > While the idea of requiring a greater service from > someone who is more celestially potent makes sense, the > bonus in question is potentially much too large (a Lilim of > the Blade could theoretically get a Geas/12 in this way). > Suggested change: > > "If a Lilim of Laurence attempts to Geas someone with the > intent of making him help the cause of Hell she may accept > up to three levels of Risk on the Resonance roll (thereby > decreasing the TN by 1-3). If successful the Lilim adds > the level of Risk to the level of the Geas. Anything more > than a Geas/6 bleeds over into a second Geas with a level > equal to the difference." Yes! Thanks a lot. I really have problems with the Lilim resonance mechanics, and this helps. Much appreciated. > >> Skulkers: [snip] They are Laurence’s Rouges. > > Uh... you mean Rogues, right? Though demons are > traditionally red... };> I always switch those two -_-;; > >> Dark Sword: For 2 Essence, the demon may create a >> parasitic field of >> darkness around his weapon, and use it to absorb the >> damage dealt to his foe. > > As in, dealing damage to an opponent heals the demon? I > see much munchkin potential in this. You sure? For 2 Essence a pop, this doesn't come cheap. You can sit there and keep healing yourself, sure, but soon you'll be fresh out of Essence. > >> The demon may also spend 3 Essence and for her next >> Celestial Forces in hours, she can look at a human and >> know if they have the potential for a sixth Force. > > ...but this is unbalancing IMHO. I felt the same... makes it way too easy to recruit Soldiers. Should be a higher distinction type of ability... this part is nixed. > >> An Army of One: > > Why not simplify this and just make it a bonus to > performing and/or automatic knowledge of the Celestial Song > of Unity? And to think, I have the LC and never thought to look that up. Good suggestion. > >> For the Firstborn! > > AAAAAIIIIIIEEEEEEE! *Ahem* I mean, there are some game > balance issues with this. The ability to create an > Intervention on demand? No way would I allow it. Yeah, I was going to see how this one was going to be recived before I modified it. I figured it could be made to equal a 1 1 6 on a roll, but that's too weak. I figured it could be a bonus to Summon Michael or Laurence, but that seemed to awkward. Still alittle stuck on this- may just get cut altogether. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 13:50:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: (Part II) Laurence, Impudite Demon Prince of the Blade - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > You sure? For 2 Essence a pop, this doesn't come cheap. > You can sit there > and keep healing yourself, sure, but soon you'll be fresh > out of Essence. Yes... but this is healing oneself _and_ simultaneously damaging one's opponent. For 1 Essence a Song of Healing repairs 1-6 damage, but for 2 Essence this Attunement does damage to the opponent equal to the Power of the attack and heals equal damage to the user. And if you believe that nobody would combine this with Blade Blessing, you have a much higher opinion of human nature than I do. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:11:35 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: (Part II) Laurence, Impudite Demon Prince of the Blade >> You sure? For 2 Essence a pop, this doesn't come cheap. >> You can sit there >> and keep healing yourself, sure, but soon you'll be fresh >> out of Essence. > > Yes... but this is healing oneself _and_ simultaneously > damaging one's opponent. For 1 Essence a Song of Healing > repairs 1-6 damage, but for 2 Essence this Attunement does > damage to the opponent equal to the Power of the attack and > heals equal damage to the user. And if you believe that > nobody would combine this with Blade Blessing, you have a > much higher opinion of human nature than I do. Blade Blessing... and the Shedite Attunement... *horrible, horrible visions come to light* Michael, thou art a far wiser gamer than I. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 17:30:57 -0600 From: Gregg Forge Subject: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) > > >Fleurty as a Impudite > > >> >> I still have trouble understanding him as a Habbie. > > > >Impudites can't kill humans. Drugs kill. > >(Yeah, I know I sound like an anti-drug ad. "Just say 'No.'" -Nancy Reagan) > Actually, that would make for a particularly poignant Taker; he must carefully weigh the benefit of doped-up 'cattle' to gain essence from, versus their poor little less-than-celestially perfect' constitutions. This version would not only be more likely to partake of his own wares, but would be seen as perfect redenption material; anyone who has to show restraint when backing their word to the point of even feigned compassion would seem just begging to be saved from their own damnation. This doesn't necessarily mean he'd have to be nicer. "Take the pill, human." Of course, this also means that anyone who dies of a drug overdose would be herded to his part of Shal-Mari, where they can sustain his own infernal equivalent of the 'munchies'. It's not really 'wasteful', if they die, if they end up little perpetual essence treats in his slice of Hell, now, is it? Kamika-Z ...the world is a party, and I'm just helping it along... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 17:04:00 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) Gregg Forge writes: > >> >> >> Fleurty as a Impudite >> >> >>> >>> I still have trouble understanding him as a Habbie. >> >> >> >> Impudites can't kill humans. Drugs kill. Easy- Impudite of Drugs: An Impudite of Drugs does not incur dissonance if he causes the death of a human, as long as it is through the use of drugs. Thus, Fleurity the Impudite is just as deadly and dangerous as Habbalite Fleurity... but it's twice as easy to make them take the pill. "Go ahead honey, *Charm* you can handle it" Kinda scary to think of... --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 02:45:58 -0500 From: "Brian Rogers" Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) I don't know. Sometimes, in my more cynical, less sympathetic moments I've thought that drug addicts get what they deserve, as no one forced them to start taking drugs. If they are strong enough to say no to drugs, or gain enough strength to quit drugs, then great. Otherwise they are weak, and deserve what they get, even more so because they are doing to themselves. A very Habbalite attitude, I'd say. I'm not that nasty all the time, I should point out. Brian > >> > >> Fleurty as a Impudite > >> > >> > >>> > >>> I still have trouble understanding him as a Habbie. - -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 06:19:04 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Dunscombe Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) > A very Habbalite attitude, I'd say. Which, I believe, is *PRECISELY* the logic behind making Fleurity a Habbalite. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:17:44 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) At 05:04 PM 2/9/2003 -0700, sirea@softhome.net wrote: >Thus, Fleurity the Impudite is just as deadly and dangerous as Habbalite >Fleurity... but it's twice as easy to make them take the pill. On the other hand, if Fleurity has to Charm people in order to get them to take drugs, he's not doing his job. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:47:11 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) > On the other hand, if Fleurity has to Charm people in order to get > them to take drugs, he's not doing his job. But if he is "charming" people into taking drugs that would be doing his job. He would probably be closely allied to Nybbas instead of Saminga in order to put a pretty face on drug use. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:17:16 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) At 08:47 AM 2/10/2003 -0500, Cameron McCurry wrote: > But if he is "charming" people into taking drugs that would be doing > his job. He would probably be closely allied to Nybbas instead of > Saminga in order to put a pretty face on drug use. Well, there's a difference between being charming and using his resonance. Fleurity can be friendly and suave all he wants (and pretty much regardless of his Band), but as soon as he has to stoop to manipulating a human into taking drugs by force (using resonance) instead of by natural ability... I guess what I'm saying is that it's sort of a cheap out - especially for a Prince. (It's sort of like - if I remember correctly - the lessons from "The Professional". You start with the weapons that give you the best chance of actually doing the job successfully with the fewest consequences for you, like long-range rifles [or your resonance]. Once you've gotten those down, then you start using the weapons that can backfire on you, like knives and garrottes [or actual skill].) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:51:17 -0500 From: Robb Kidd Subject: Re: IN> Greetings from the Corporeal Realm Paul Kidd wrote: > Just thought I'd say hello to the folks on the Discussion List. :) The Kidd Legion grows more powerful. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:57:12 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> INverse Superior: (Part II) Laurence, Impudite Demon Prince of the Blade - --- sirea@softhome.net wrote: > Blade Blessing... and the Shedite Attunement... > > *horrible, horrible visions come to light* > > Michael, thou art a far wiser gamer than I. Nah, I just have more experience with power gamers. IN lends itself to that, unfortunately -- especially in demonic campaigns. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:59:52 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) - --- Gregg Forge wrote: > Of course, this also means that anyone who dies of a > drug overdose would > be herded to his part of Shal-Mari, where they can > sustain his own infernal equivalent of the 'munchies'. _Interesting_ image. > It's not really 'wasteful', if they die, > if they end up > little perpetual essence treats in his slice of Hell, > now, is it? [shudder] That actually makes Fleurity a good bit scarier, IMO. > the world is a party, and I'm just helping it along... =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:08:54 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) - --- Brian Rogers wrote: > If they are strong enough to say no to drugs, or > gain enough strength to quit drugs, then great. Otherwise > they are weak, and deserve what they get Which is exactly what Fleurity thinks. Having met quite a few recovering addicts (perk of having a father who did substance abuse counseling), I know different. Sure, people choose to _start_ taking drugs... but none of the people who do that really understand what they're getting into. Many people think that resisting addiction really is a matter of willpower, but this is not the case. Addictive drugs increase the user's desire for the drug, eventually making the user physiologically dependent on the substance (as in, a chronic user can in some cases die without it). Even drugs that aren't physically addictive can be psychologically addictive; a game mechanic that assesses Will penalties (at least for resisting the urge to get a fix) is very appropriate. Simply put, drugs _make you want them_. In the beginning it's a matter of personal choice, but beyond a certain threshold addicts literally can't help themselves -- and those who fail to seek help from others tend to die addicted. It is after that point that, in IN, Fleurity owns them for eternity. Daily Essence in exchange for a fix is a foolproof racket. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:55:29 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) > Sure, people choose to _start_ taking drugs... but none >of the people who do that really understand what they're >getting into. Many people think that resisting addiction >really is a matter of willpower, but this is not the case. >Addictive drugs increase the user's desire for the drug, >eventually making the user physiologically dependent on the >substance (as in, a chronic user can in some cases die >without it). In the beginning it's a matter of personal >choice, but beyond a certain threshold addicts literally >can't help themselves -- and those who fail to seek help >from others tend to die addicted. It is after that point >that, in IN, Fleurity owns them for eternity. Looking at some of the people who have been killed by overdoses and some who have trumped their own addictions, people who used drugs to still that place in themselves so that they could create or sculpt or write, I can't help but see an Impudite Fleurty as being a servitor of Destiny who literally Fell in with Fate and was loaned out to Death. Be interesting to see the dynamic between an Impudite Fleurty and Hatiphas. In fact... hmm... a match made in Hell indeed... As well as a very real reason for the Archangel of Creation to abandon Heaven and hunt down a very real threat to his own Word. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:16:39 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) > manipulating a human into taking drugs by force (using resonance) instead > of by natural ability... Hang on. Resonance IS natural ability to celestials. To say using a resonance is cheating is like saying using opposable thumbs is cheating. - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:28:37 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) At 12:16 PM 2/10/2003 -0500, Eric Bertish wrote: >Hang on. Resonance IS natural ability to celestials. To say using a >resonance is cheating is like saying using opposable thumbs is cheating. Yes, it is. That's an excellent metaphor, although I'm going to shift it a bit. Sin is about free will. Sin is about people doing things without being forced to do them. Consider a human trying to get a mouse to run a maze to the cheese at the other end. You can either teach the mouse to run the maze, or you can pick him up and set him at the end. That's the difference between being charming and Charming someone: the former doesn't force them into anything. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:51:45 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) > Sin is about free will. Sin is about people doing things without being > forced to do them. Consider a human trying to get a mouse to run a maze > to the cheese at the other end. You can either teach the mouse to run the > maze, or you can pick him up and set him at the end. That's the > difference between being charming and Charming someone: the former doesn't > force them into anything. But I ask, who in the nine hells ever said that demons -play fair-? ^_~ --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game, and petitioner for the Word of Pranking Tightwads) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:04:16 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) At 10:51 AM 2/10/2003 -0700, sirea@softhome.net wrote: >But I ask, who in the nine hells ever said that demons -play fair-? In one sense, they have to. You can't force someone to their destiny *or* their fate. If J. R. Person's fate is to be a drug addict, and you use Charm to get him to take drugs, you've just invalidated that fate. In general, though, disregarding fate for the moment, demons play fair because of status. "What, you mean you - the Demon Prince of Drugs - couldn't convince someone to take a hit without using your mojo?" As always, YMMV. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:20:59 -0500 From: Michael Nutt Subject: Re: IN> Fluerty, Impudie Prince of Drugs? (was re: IN> Kinda sorta not really a new heresy...) > >But I ask, who in the nine hells ever said that demons > >-play fair-? > > In one sense, they have to. You can't force someone > to their destiny *or* their fate. If J. R. Person's fate is > to be a drug addict, and you use Charm to get him to > take drugs, you've just invalidated that fate. You also may have just invalidated his Destiny, too, or at least kept him from being able to achieve it on this turn of the wheel. Sometimes, if you don't think you can win, you play for the draw. > In general, though, disregarding fate for the moment, > demons play fair because of status. "What, you mean > you - the Demon Prince of Drugs - couldn't convince > someone to take a hit without using your mojo?" Maybe... but who says he has to tell? Also, if he's going for an expansion of his Word, will it matter how someone was pushed into using? The power of the Word of Drugs depends on how influential drugs are in the lives of people, and if it needs a little help to increase in power... c'est la vie. "Addicts, up 8% over this quarter last year; first-time users, up 16%; Fates, up 3%; Tethers, up 6%; total Essence, up 11%. Mojo, schmojo." > As always, YMMV. Very true. :) - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:10:09 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> New auction Not mine, but I thought I'd pass it along: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3114486114&category=2546 IN core rules (softcover), APG, IPG, and the (out-of-print) GM's pack with screen. Current bid is $1 (no reserve), plus $7 S&H, and the seller will ship to the United States only. - -EDG ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2960 ********************************