in_nomine-digest Thursday, February 20 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2970 In this digest: Re: IN> Tournament-style Discord... Re: IN> Tournament-style Discord... IN> Tournament-style Discords...DLX + Beta! IN> Hell before the War and stuff Re: IN> Angel of Jump-6 IN> Digests? Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff Re: IN> Angel of Jump-6 Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff RE: IN> Hell before the War and stuff Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff Re: IN> Tournament-style Discord... Re: IN> Tournament-style Discords...DLX + Beta! Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... Re: IN> Super Discord Fighter II Turbo Champion Edition RE: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... IN> Possible redemption. Re: IN> Possible redemption. Re: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... Re: IN> Possible redemption. IN> Sparky has had enough..... Re: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... Re: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... IN> Michael the Mercurian Re: IN> Tournament-style Discords...DLX + Beta! Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff Re: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:09:21 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Tournament-style Discord... *giggle* Larry Demon King of Panda Djinn of Dark Humor Larry has an interesting job description -- he's a Discord. His carefully-crafted Attunement from Kobal allows him to sense the location of the nearest person with the Discord "Giant Panda Attack." The perception may be refined(to, for example "nearest angelic holder") if he makes a Perception roll. This, combined with his Giant Panda Vessel/4 and the inability of the sufferer's comrades to notice damage inflicted by the Discord -- why, yes, damage inflicted by Larry appears to be considered damage inflicted by the Discord -- makes him a stealthy, if specialized, corporeal assassin. A very large, very furry, particolored, nonhuman-looking assassin, who, if currently tracking a sufferer with intent to kill, is hidden from view as if by coincidence from every eye, mundane or otherwise, except his target's. Larry's official title is Demon of Panda, a minor Word which had never been considered useful until GPA started cropping up in angels. Calling himself the Demon King of Panda is an affectation, albeit not one he indulges in around any Princes. If you prove that you know the ref, though, he might just maul you slightly less. Maybe. He has a job to do, after all. William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:47:40 -0500 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Tournament-style Discord... > Larry > Demon King of Panda > Djinn of Dark Humor Pretty funny. What I also think is funny is if it were an Ethereal Discord instead of Corporeal, and it cropped up in, say, former Purity Crusaders. Then you get sort of a PTSD/Agent Orange syndrome going on with Purity ets -- maybe from guilt, maybe as the result of a curse laid on them by an Ethereal god -- and, of course, if the damage reduces the victim to zero Mind hits, they end up with an Ethereal Discord. Like, GPA +1? If you tie the damage done to the level of the Discord, it become crippling at high levels (and also pretty funny, in a schaudenfreude "You killed Kenny!" kind of way). - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 05:08:19 -0600 From: Gregg Forge Subject: IN> Tournament-style Discords...DLX + Beta! While I'm not one to disparage the usage of giant pandas to their full, mayhaps ineffable, extent, I find that if I'm going to inflict discords on people, it might as well be the Great Anime Punishment (G.A.P, not to be confused with a faux-trendy yuppiewear store). In light of this, something that non-sequitored from Giant Panda Attacks, and became an inexplicably in-need-of-writeup thingie. Kamika-Z, who really ought to stop with the sites he visits... Twenty Exty Six! (Celestial Discord) (With apologies to HomeStar Runner and Strong Bad) Whenver one wishes to attempt to convey any manner of pertinant, important, or possibly essential information, the Symphony will spontaneously add 'grace notes' to whatever you are doing; an added bit of flourish that is completely and utterly uncalled for. The nature of these 'grace notes' varies with the situation and the overal demeanor of the attempting speaker; those who are being sarcastic will meet with someone walking by and 'wah wah wah'-ing on a trumpet; someone delivering the news of a loved one's untimely demise will be met with the world around themselves and the individuals addressed will fade to black and white, if not completely dissolve around them into darkness with obligatory flashes behind them as their eyes constrict to mere pinpricks. Occasionally, those with severe levels of this discord will find that their actual movements are limited, and at times the symphony will move them in ways they hadn't planned for; spelling out entire conversations while flexing and posing makes for less-than-impressed observers, especially when one is addressing their superior, or Superior for that matter. This Discord functions anywhere. That's right, you heard me, ANYWHERE. Heaven. Hell. The Marches. Even in LIMBO. Though the likelyhood of speaking with anyone other than yourself in Limbo are rediculously slim, to the point of nonexistance, even talking to yourself, at sufficiently high levels, will result in superimposed profile shots of yourself, against the endless void of nonexistance. Incidently, this helps with the roll to stay and gather essence a little longer; each level is an additional +1 to the roll to not bug out and crawl back to the coporeal as a bleeding, psychotic, puce gerbil. Overall, though, it's really dang annoying. Particularly to those servitors whose Superiors lack for senses of humor. Which is, to say, a good many of them. You try explaining to your boss why you've just delivered the year's profit margin with random guest appearence fanfare, pantomiming the utliziation of a cash register, an armored car, and tickertape, and then proceeded to pose out the company's initials while speaking. Go on. I'll take pictures. Dischord Degree of effect 1 People might walk by and spontaneously add in information that They do not really know, but seem to fit the mood. "The infernals plan to stage a robbery of the local convenience store!" Random passerby; "And they mean it, too!" They will have no recollection of their comment; the Symphony just thought it would be keen. 2. Whenever something is pointed at, the sun will invariably lens-flare off of the indicated item in question. This includes people. Radios always seem to cue mood music, but never in a helpful sort of Soundtrack attunement way. Covert activities are attempted at a -1, increasing at each additional level of the discord. 3. The Symphony starts to exaggerate your motions a bit further, now; one never merely points, but points and drop-jaws. Attempts at hi-5's will go from being the simply uplifting and applying of palm to palm in an audible manner, but both the attempter AND the attemptee will run, crouch, and then leap for the the hifive. If there is daylight, lens flare is guarenteed. The sound will echo. People start to kinda look at ya outta the corner of their eyes; reaction penalties of -1 start and continue from here. 4. When you point, your closest companions will point with you, When you turn, everyone turns. It's as though suddenly you're movements are being used for the steps of choreography. People who are caught up in your discord will be non-plussed; those observing will be far less so. Bizarre hair color changes occur in the vessal on the failure of a resonance roll. Those who see how strangely they were acting, with you, are likely to react worse than those who simply watched. 5. There's nothing normal about having to elaborately pose out half of a conversation. There's nothing remotely sane about having tidal waves crash behind you when you're in the middle of Nebraska, Either. The grace notes of the symphony are becoming a little TOO forceful. While the tidal wave will crash, and the rocks they crash against will be gone within mere moments, for some reason the clothing won't dry remotely as quickly. If you lose your temper, you don't literally flip your lid, but mind those fires burning as an indicative backdrop... 6. Everyone and everything in your vicinity drop what they're doing to get in on the action. Think broadway musicals. Think Who's Line is it, Anyway?. Think about getting a name change and the heck out of town; there's bound to be plenty of people who are out for you because of the chaos you inflict on their daily lives. Did we mention the euruptng volcanos, and the psyche-induced faux-nukes? For some reason, this discord is known as Ginyu-itis among the August Collective. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:11:02 +0200 From: Mervi.Hamalainen@uta.fi Subject: IN> Hell before the War and stuff Hi. I'm getting ready to run my looks-sort-of-like-history campaign, which starts before the Fall. Couple of questions, though: 1. What was Hell before the Fall? Was it created to be something else? Did it just come into being when Lucifer & co were kicked out of Heaven? 2. Since humans were supposedly created in the image of God, I'm toying with the idea of making the first angels closest to humans. How would the nature of the War between Heaven and Hell change if Michael and Lucifer were mercurians? (Expect that there would be a lot less collateral damage.:)) Mervi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:01:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Jump-6 At 12:22 PM -0500 2/19/03, BC Petery wrote: >> Special Attunement: the Angel of Jump-6 can make _any_ ship (that it's >> on) capable of Jump-6! > >A new explanation for the Bermuda Triangle. Now we know what happened to the >Marie Celeste. > >Hey, you said "_any_ ship" Indeed! I did! Better have some spacesuits with air, though -- a week without oxy makes for lost vessels... Perhaps anyone losing a vessel in Jump goes to Limbo, instead? But where do they pop out? It should be a right royal pain, not a character- killer... Perhaps on any other ship that is in Jump at the time they're emerging from Limbo? - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:20:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Digests? Long and long people have wondered, "Where are all the digests?" As I speak, I'm downloading them. All of them, near as I can tell. See, apparently _io.com_ kept copies somewhere I didn't know about, and they're moving from majordomo to mailman, and they offered the list admins a chance to download their digests... There's about 96K of 'em. They're downloading. They're in text format. I suspect... something can be arranged to get them put up somewhere, eventually. Wow. - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:30:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff At 5:11 PM +0200 2/20/03, Mervi.Hamalainen@uta.fi wrote: >Hi. >I'm getting ready to run my looks-sort-of-like-history campaign, which starts >before the Fall. Couple of questions, though: > >1. What was Hell before the Fall? Was it created to be something else? Did it >just come into being when Lucifer & co were kicked out of Heaven? I strongly doubt that the answer to that will ever be made in canon. (It's not impossible, but it's reeeeeeeeelly unlikely. Far more likely will be the presence of this question in any hypothetical description of an Elohite Philosophy and Debating Convention.) So whatever anyone comes up with that sounds keen, go for it! (I, personally, would say that it came into creation when Lucifer was kicked out. But that's me.) >2.[...]How would the nature of the War between Heaven and Hell change if >Michael and Lucifer were mercurians? [...] My brain hurts. HURTS! O:> - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:33:03 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Angel of Jump-6 - --- Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Perhaps anyone losing a vessel in Jump goes to Limbo, > instead? Or maybe drivespace _is_ Limbo. If you go that route, perhaps travelers can extend their jump range by accepting Discord. };> =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:08:51 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Dunscombe Subject: Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff [...origin of Hell...] > go for it! (I, > personally, would say that it came into creation > when Lucifer was > kicked out. But that's me.) It's canon.... somewhere... Sups 3 writeup of Gabriel I think... that, in his fight with Lucifer, Michael knocked the top off the mountain that became Gabriel's volcano, and that this top became the "foundation of Hell". Whatever that means on the celestial plane. ^^ > >Michael and Lucifer were mercurians? [...] > > My brain hurts. HURTS! O:> Better yet... what Choir is more human than even the Mercurians? Hmmmmmm? ;) (That, and who says the /angels/ are created in /God's/ image?) ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:12:29 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Hell before the War and stuff Stephen Dunscombe wrote: "It's canon.... somewhere... Sups 3 writeup of Gabriel I think... that, in his fight with Lucifer, Michael knocked the top off the mountain that became Gabriel's volcano, and that this top became the "foundation of Hell". Whatever that means on the celestial plane. ^^" It's also canon, I think, that Kobal persuaded Lucifer that Hell should be landscaped so as to be an inversion of Heaven, a place of ugliness and torment, rather than try to out-do Heaven in glory. So the current appearance of Hell is presumably demonic artifice, in large part. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:22:03 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff At 12:08 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, Stephen Dunscombe wrote: >It's canon.... somewhere... This is only one of several "official" explanations, and may simply be a story told by proud Servitors of War. IIRC, another is that Hell was carved out of the body of the Metatron, which - again IIRC - has the advantage of being an explanation that also exists outside of the IN cosmology. >(That, and who says the /angels/ are created in >/God's/ image?) Nobody. But if humans are created in God's image, and at least half of the eight Choirs have forms that resemble humans, the conclusion shouldn't be hard to come to. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:34:33 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Tournament-style Discord... > Giant Panda Attack! (Corporeal Discord) > (With apologies to PVP) *laughs* XD This is too good to pass up :) --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:35:41 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Tournament-style Discords...DLX + Beta! > Twenty Exty Six! (Celestial Discord) > (With apologies to HomeStar Runner and Strong Bad) I'm a soooooul from the 60's :B --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:42:28 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff Well, this is how I see it, based on the idea that the celestial plane is like the corporeal, in that it has a "ground" and four cardinal directions. Heaven was normal until the Fall. It was a place of power admist the "Celestial Beyond" (the area beyond Haven that was still celestial plane). The Vale is the enterence to the Marches from Heaven (the main one anyways). When Lucifer Fell, Micheal literally threw him into the foundation of Heaven, and a part of Heaven "Fell", and warped. "South" of Heaven, on the other side of the Vale (now Beleth's) the Celestial Beyond warped, and became Hell, a barren pit of darkness that was made from the Fallen Heaven. The celestial plane warped, and we now haven Heaven, Hell, the Vale, the Marches, the Celestial Beyond (north and northeast of Heaven) and the Infernal Beyond (south and southeast of Hell). I have a map here... I just need to put it together and upload it. As for the damned being "trapped" in Hell, all that happened was that God placed infinite barriers all around Hell, so that no matter how far you wandered, you would just keep walking into nothingness, and when you turned around, you were right back in Hell. Lilith broke this seal (allowing access to Heaven, the Vale and the Marches) and also made a Tether, allowing corporeal access. That's how I figure Hell worked anyways. Canon has nothing concrete. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:47:34 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... For the Cherubs that were around near the very beginning (as in they saw Andre get his word) were their forms limited to those of the Animals that were around at the time or did they have forms that included animals that did not yet exist? Randy Finder randolph.finder@ngb.army.mil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:54:32 -0700 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN> Super Discord Fighter II Turbo Champion Edition Mellme wandered cautiously through the Library, statcking books one by one on their shelves. She glanced nervously at the metal bars that reinforced the cases, and her hands avoided them deftly. Sweat broke upon her brow as she passed a Malakite of the Sword, his naked metal weapon hanging loosley upon his hip. Mellme fought to retain control of her senses, and dashed to the main part of the library, her feet scuffling against the thick, plush carpet... she could feel it build up in her, and her heart raced with terror. She placed the last few books on their respective shelves, and she sat down with a weary sigh. She had avoided it. No pain, no agony, no terrible sensations rushing through her body. She leaned back and didn't notice as her wings touched a small patch of metal on one of the bookcases... *ZAP!* BLESSED! She clutched her wing and yelped in pain, smashing her foot into the ground in aggravaton. She HATED working off this Discord! STATIC!! (Corporeal) This Discord only turns up in Servitors of Lightning, Archives, and Dark Humor. It charges the angel with a violent static charge, making touching another living being or metal objects extremely painful and uncomfortable for the celestial, as they are delivered a large static shock, the power increasing with the level of the Discord. At level 1-2, the celestial will take one Body hit everytime they touch another living being or a metal object unprotected. At level 3-4, they suffer the same as above, but they are also stunned for 1 round. At level 5-6, they take their Corporeal Forces in damage (or Ethereal in the Marches, or Celestial if on the celestial plane), and are stunned for the same number of rounds. And by golly, it hurts like the devil. Needless to say, celestials with this Discord stay the Hell away from any library or well carpeted area. --- Sirea, Free Cherub IST Destiny, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity (currently being ridden by Grapejuice, Renegade Shedite of the Game) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:10:27 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... Finder, Randolph J wrote" "For the Cherubs that were around near the very beginning (as in they saw Andre get his word) were their forms limited to those of the Animals that were around at the time or did they have forms that included animals that did not yet exist? I'd vote for the latter. The cherubim might be the Platonic archetypes of animals, and so pre-date them. Jordi probably keeps a few eyes out for cherubim that fledge as unknown animals. They give him hope, and ideas for the future. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:09:37 -0700 From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" Subject: IN> Possible redemption. Mamasiah is a former Elohote who Fell during the War in Heaven. He became a Habbalite serving Baal. Mamasiah is interesting because he has a strict code of honor that requires him to keep his word, absent a compelling reason to break it. He also, being a demon, sees this as absolute -- even if your word is given under duress, it's still your honor at stake. An angel with the ability to lift self-delusion used that power on Mamasiah, who (under the effects of the Song of Charm) failed his will to resist, and therefore realized that he's not an angel at all, and is instead a traitor to Heaven and a demon. This is a bad thing for a Habbalite to realize, so I had him do the only thing that made sense at the time: he resonated emptiness on himself so he wouldn't think about it. He was then told to swear that he would not contact Hell, nor would he leave the city he was in, or he would be destroyed. He agreed. I'm not sure where to take this storyline, and the moment of clarity that let him see the Truth has passed, but it makes sense to me that he would continue resonating on himself to make the nagging doubts go away. Is this reasonable, or does anyone else have a cooler idea? Ben "I wasn't walking on water, I was standing on a reef when the tide came in." -- Rush ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:47:29 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Possible redemption. From: "Rampaging Crypto-Man" > > He also, being a demon, sees this as absolute -- even if your > word is given under duress, it's still your honor at stake. I think this is the most important consideration - even though he's once again under the delusion that he's an angel, doing God's work, he gave his word not to leave teh city he was in or contact Hell. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:51:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... - --- "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" wrote: > For the Cherubs that were around near the very beginning > (as in they saw > Andre get his word) were their forms limited to those of > the Animals that > were around at the time or did they have forms that > included animals that did not yet exist? _Interesting_ question. We had somebody post a link to a drawing of an ancient Cherub whose Celestial form was that of a winged anomalocaris (an extinct crustacean). We had another post concerning a Malakite in a Velociraptor Vessel who got loose on Earth after being in Limbo for a _very_ long time. There are loads of possibilities if old Celestials of the animalistic Ensembles tend to have forms that correspond to the animals who were around at the time. The oldest Cherubim might have Celforms that look like winged Prokaryotes... OTOH, canon has the angels (especially the AA's) helping to create the Earth. Presumeably there were Cherubim around before animals were created. This suggests that the Celestial forms of Cherubim do indeed have the potential to express traits from species that don't exist yet (I imagine that this is most common among Cherubim of Animals and Creation). I don't think that the same is true of Djinn, but more of them may have traits from species that are extinct. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:54:34 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Possible redemption. - --- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: > it makes sense to me that he would > continue resonating on himself to make the nagging doubts > go away. Is this > reasonable, or does anyone else have a cooler idea? He could also Resonate Stubborness on himself to reinforce his former (Habbalite) beliefs -- that would eliminate the doubt just as effectively and not interfere with his job (much). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:26:19 -0500 From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" Subject: IN> Sparky has had enough..... The more I read descriptions of Sparky, the more I feel sorry for him. Second only to the Delusion that led to the fall, is the Delusion of the Habbalah and the Habbalah suffer from both. No entity other than Lucifer himself is held directly responsible for the first Delusion and until armageddon, no one will be able to hold him responsible for the results of that Delusion. On the other hand, Sparky is held accountable every day for the results of the delusions of the most powerful of the Habbalah in Hell - Vapula. Fleurity's Delusions are largely in the Corporial plane and is considerably less likely to tear a hole in the universe on a bad day... So what is in it for Sparky... He isn't worded and unless Lucifer wants to grant him the word of "saving the universe from the truly insane", I don't think he is likely to get one. And without a word, he can't take the next step (He is a Baron already). And what does he use is Balseraph Resonance for anyway, he can control most demons of Tartarus and the demons who are problems to him are Superiors and he isn't stupid enough to try that... So what if.... He's had enough. This could go several ways... 1) Suicidal... With some time to plan, Sparky could get under his personal control most of the WMD of Hell, unlike his boss who has a Habbalite's view of individual punishment, Sparky could singlehandedly end it all on the Corporeal plane (Armageddon with its nice prophecies or not)... 2) Renegade... With the vast array of weaponry that Vapula has, Sparky would be able to protect himself from the Game better than any except a superior and possibly even more than some of them. I think Asmodeus would lose more Demons trying to destroy/capture Sparky than either Mammon or Fleurity. 3) Redemption... he probabaly wouldn't want to redeem into the service of one of the more warlike angels, but just doing his job without a healthy chunk of the two dozen most powerful entities in the universe yelling at him would probably be enough. The mostly likely possibilities are Marc (remember he got "the job" becuase he controls the budgets in Tartarus), Jean or maybe Eli. But would they want him... This isn't "Heaven doesn't want me, Hell is afraid I'll take over" this is "The Archangels think I'm doing one of the most useful jobs in the universe right where I am". 4) Total War... Those Demon Prices who have tormented me will pay.... He goes Renegade and doesn't bother to leave Hell. Randy Finder randolph.finder@ngb.army.mil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:00:02 -0800 From: Kim Kondratieff Subject: Re: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... >> For the Cherubs that were around near the very beginning >> (as in they saw >> Andre get his word) were their forms limited to those of >> the Animals that >> were around at the time or did they have forms that >> included animals that did not yet exist? > > _Interesting_ question. > > We had somebody post a link to a drawing of an ancient > Cherub whose Celestial form was that of a winged > anomalocaris (an extinct crustacean). We had another post > concerning a Malakite in a Velociraptor Vessel who got > loose on Earth after being in Limbo for a _very_ long time. > There are loads of possibilities if old Celestials of the > animalistic Ensembles tend to have forms that correspond to > the animals who were around at the time. The oldest > Cherubim might have Celforms that look like winged > Prokaryotes... The anomalocarid Cherub is still up on my Side7. :> I can post the link, if anyone wants to see 'im. And...winged prokaryotes. I am SO doing that now. Though, out of curiosity, would a human who caught sight of one of those very ancient Cherubim have to make a Will roll ala seeing a Kyrio in Celform? X) Bah. Now I'm tempted to do a big drawing of Cherubim with unusual celforms. Prokarya, maybe some protists, a butterfly, another drawing of Novalis' proposed celestial form... - --Kim Angel of Random Enthusiasm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:18:00 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... - --- Kim Kondratieff wrote: > winged prokaryotes. I am SO doing that now. That's why I throw out those idea grenades -- every now and then one of them hits the mark. 0;> > Though, out of curiosity, would a human who caught sight > of one of > those very ancient Cherubim have to make a Will roll ala > seeing a Kyrio in Celform? Nah. Microbes are just unattractive, even with wings. Kyrios and Shedim are _ODD_ (multiple modes of emphasis both intentional and appropriate). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

Smart knows what. Intelligence knows how. Wisdom knows why. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:27:44 -0500 (EST) From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> Michael the Mercurian My muse wouldn't let this go.... Michael, Mercurian Archangel of War "The World is at War and we must never stop fighting for humanity." One of the first angels ever created by God, Michael has seen the creation of the Earth and Humanity. As the first Mercurian, he always held humans in high regard and watched in wonder as they grew and thrived. Then came the Rebellion led by his brother Lucifer, the First Seraph. As the Horde rampaged throughout Heaven, Michael's rage carried him forward. He slew countless angels that had turned against God but in his eyes they were simply minor obstacles that were in the way of Lucifer. The Archangel of Light sneered contemptuously at his older brother. In his eyes, Michael was little better than a human and hardly worth the challenge. It was about three seconds later when Michael's axe started ripping Forces off of him that Lucifer realized that he had underestimated the ferocity that a Mercurian could summon. And when the Archangel of Light had been thrown from Heaven, the rest of the Horde quickly followed rather than face Michael in combat. But Michael was not one to rest on his laurels. God had granted him the Word of War and he took to his duties with a clear focus. He became Commander of the Host until Dominic put him on trial for the sin of Pride. After God pardoned Michael, the Archangel of War admitted to Dominic that he did have Pride in his accomplishments as well as those of his Servitors. But he conceded that the stigma of the Trial would cause people to doubt him, so he stepped aside and allowed Uriel to take his place. Losing his position as Lord Commander did not make Michael bitter however. There was still a War going on and it needed to be fought. Instead of leading massive armies, he contented himself with teaching those who fight physical or moral battles on their own. His "tough love" approach is odd for a Mercurian, but his people are fiercely loyal. Michael's Servitors have varied responsibilities throughout Earth. It is their duty to teach humans how to fight against the threat of Hell with weapons as well as words. They have the greatest amount of Soldiers and Saints in different capacities, the most efficient espionage network in existence (Courtesy of Michael's second-in-command Nisroc) and have been known to bring demons down simply by feeding information to other demons. Their natures are contradictory as angels go; they love peace with almost the same passion as an angel of Novalis but have no hesitation about fighting dirty. More on Attunements and relations to others later. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:23:13 -0600 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN> Tournament-style Discords...DLX + Beta! >>Twenty Exty Six! (Celestial Discord) >>(With apologies to HomeStar Runner and Strong Bad) > >I'm a soooooul from the 60's :B > This may be, but... The System is down. The System is down. Kamika-Z "PanPan fell on you! PanPan is so fat!" _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:25:54 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff >Hi. >I'm getting ready to run my looks-sort-of-like-history campaign, which starts >before the Fall. Couple of questions, though: > >1. What was Hell before the Fall? Was it created to be something else? Did it >just come into being when Lucifer & co were kicked out of Heaven? Since I choose to look at points in Heaven as states of spiritual existence, Hell always existed as a state that could be reached. However, until the Fall, nobody could visualize it existing anymore than you can visualize a fourth dimension. (This is how there's always room for a new Archangel's Cathedral -- when they're bound to their Word, they can see new spiritual states to be in, and can lead others there. Princes have to fight over the limited states available in Hell, -- which themselves are probably only available due to Lucifer's awareness -- since demonic Word-Binding and Prince-raising doesn't expand your awareness in the same way angelic Word-binding and Archangel-raising does.) Hell would probably have been totally void until bounded by the pieces of the Volcano that fell with Lucifer. Perhaps if a demon dug far enough they would open up a hole onto a mind-numbingly vast expanse of nothingness. :^) >2. Since humans were supposedly created in the image of God, I'm toying with >the idea of making the first angels closest to humans. How would the nature >of the War between Heaven and Hell change if Michael and Lucifer were >mercurians? (Expect that there would be a lot less collateral damage.:)) ... Wow, that's a lot harder than some of the other Ensembles on Lucifer. Djinn is easy ("I don't care about anything in the Universe except me,") and Habbalite is just there already (self-deluded). Shedite, no problem there -- he wants to corrupt everything. Calabite: destroy everything. Balseraph is canon. Even a Skulker wouldn't be too bad -- the Vain One now hates himself and everything beautiful and wants to hide every bit of Creation from all the rest (as effective an attempt at killing a God which makes up the entire Universe as I've seen recently). Lilim is the only other one on which I'm not getting an immediate image. An Impudite can stand *violence*, but doesn't want to see humans *dead*. This kind of Lucifer would be very much like Andrealphus, I think, with a dash of Fleurity. He would be intensely against religion, . Hell's goals would be much more alluring(sex, drugs, rock'n'roll), much less violent. And Michael... hum. The Mercurian Archangel of War would clearly want first and foremost to protect humanity, and it would probably be Dissonant for any of his Servitors to let an innocent bystander or similar civilian become a casualty of the War -- in more than just the literal sense. If anything, they'd be in some sense *more* vicious towards demons -- a celestial combat doesn't harm nearby humans, and keeps the War away from the locals. In between battles, they'd see to it that any effects lingering in the populace from demonic interference were thwarted. William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:37:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Forms of *OLD* cherubs... At 12:47 PM -0500 2/20/03, Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG wrote: >For the Cherubs that were around near the very beginning (as in they saw >Andre get his word) were their forms limited to those of the Animals that >were around at the time or did they have forms that included animals that >did not yet exist? All of the above, probably. And there are still Cherubim who have forms of extinct animals, likely enough... - -- - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:00:03 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff >>(That, and who says the /angels/ are created in >>/God's/ image?) > >Nobody. But if humans are created in God's image, and at least half of the >eight Choirs have forms that resemble humans, the conclusion shouldn't be >hard to come to. Heh. Two art ideas have been floating in the back of my head for a while, but I don't have the skills to realize them. Someone else could give them a go if they wish. God aspected as Ofanite: A fractal-like image of an infinite set of fiery wheels, linked into one another in a solid chain stretching out into a vast Infinity, or descending in intricate Mandelbrot-like braids. (Or both!) God aspected as Kyriotate: A mighty collage of superimposed images of animal parts: wings, hands, paws, ears, noses. And eyes. Eyes, eyes, eyes. Opaque parts, translucent layers over them. Just enough definition and order to be able to pick out each part individually. Got art skills, you say? Have a ball with them! :^) William ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:04:09 -0600 From: Asher Densmore-Lynn Subject: Re: IN> Hell before the War and stuff Mervi.Hamalainen@uta.fi wrote: > 2. Since humans were supposedly created in the image of God, I'm toying with > the idea of making the first angels closest to humans. How would the nature > of the War between Heaven and Hell change if Michael and Lucifer were > mercurians? (Expect that there would be a lot less collateral damage.:)) I don't think the Fall would've happened. An angel of the choir -most- divine could see humanity as unworthy. But if God's firstborn was of the choir -least- divine? Lucifer would've been met with laughs. And that's assuming he was First Seraph. If he'd been a Mercurian, I don't even see the matter coming up. Besides, "Prince of Lies" is a catchy name for a has-been Seraph. What do you call a confused Mercurian? The Marquis of Mayhem? Is this a War for Heaven or a wrestling foundation? - -- Asher Densmore-Lynn ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2970 ********************************