in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 006 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:43:12 -0500 From: unseelie@warwick.net (...jason schneiderman...) Subject: Re: Khalid >Currently proposed Demon Princes: > >Fleurity, Prince of Drugs (Night Music) Hmm. I'd think this falls under Haagenti's domain -- addiction being an aspect of gluttony. Of course, I could be convinced. >Magog, Prince of Cruelty (Demonic Player's Guide) >Mammon, Prince of Greed (Heaven and Hell) > >. . . and of course, how could we forget, Furfur, the Demon Prince of Rock >and Roll, the star of Night Music. FURFUR? You named a demon FURFUR? One of the hippest words in the infernal Symphony and it's held by a demon named FURFUR? > >And as long as I'm assembling the FAQ, any other questions? I've already >gotten "what's the system," "will there be a GURPS version," and "what were >some books you read" -- and no, I hadn't read all the ones the list >discussed -- but what else? Well, you never did get to my question about the Djinn. But I'm fairly sure that won't be asked frequently. :) yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:14:29 -0500 From: unseelie@warwick.net (...jason schneiderman...) Subject: Re: References and stuff Gage2 confesses... >I also love the LOOK and have started to convert my Vampire miniatures into >winged miniatures by taking various griffon, pegasus, bats, etc. wings and >cementing them on the backs. I'm I going to far here? Not really. I've already started work on my World-Of-Darkness conversion rules. (No flames please; I couldn't resist bringing the vampires into a world where they're the ones with the RIGHT cosmology). yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:43:21 -0500 From: unseelie@warwick.net (...jason schneiderman...) Subject: Questions and answers... The colorized sorcerer himself, John Dye, asks questions about In Nomine. Let's see what I can do to help him... "Question 1: Are Songs flexible manifestations, such as is Mage the Ascension, or are they pretty narrow, like GURPS Magic or AD$D spells? For example, could the Song of Shielding in the Dark Dream be used to stop damage, as well as hiding rather distressing sights from the mortal coils around?" A little bit of both, actually. Each Song comes in three flavors: Corporeal, Ethereal and Celestial, corresponding to the three types of forces. Each variety applies the nature of the song to the force, in a sense. Take the Song of Shielding, for example. The one shown in "Dark Dream" was the Celestial Song. The Corporeal Song of Shielding does what you asked -- it stops physical attacks. And the Ethereal Song prevents attacks of a dvine nature: no resonance, attunment or other song can affect the target. Each Song is taken as a separate ability, but knowing more than one song of a particular type gives a bonus to the use of the others. Think of them as the guitar, bass and vocals to a given tune. They all sound different, and have different effects, but knowing one makes learning the next easier and the three together make up a Song. "Question the Second: What is keeping the various Angels (terminally tripped or otherwise) from being blatant power brokers?" There's two questions here, and I'm not sure which ones are intended. Let me try this: What keeps Angels and Demons from being power brokers? Well...they are. Sort of. It's just that the power they're brokering isn't *theirs*. Celestials may have the powers of Essence at their disposal, but they've got strict rules to follow, handed down from their supervisors, and breaking them causes Dissonance. What keeps them from being *blatant*? This isn't their world. When a celestial spends Essence or manipulates the Symphony, he or she knocks it out of tune. The universe reverberates with the sound of being plucked, and celestials can hear the sound from miles away and for hours later. Being blatant about your power makes you a target, fast. "Question the Third: Can you shed any light on Undead or Soldiers of the Divine? What is the difference between them and humans, and how powerful are all of them with regard to Celestials?" Soldiers of God/Soldiers of Hell are humans who've made contact with the celestial and have been profoundly altered. They've got 6 forces (as compared to a human's five and a Celestial's nine) which makes them superhuman, to a small extent. Undead are immortals, created through rites of Saminga, Demon Prince of Death. They're built similarly to Soldiers. Soldiers and Undead are weaker than Celestials, and can use fewer Songs. However, they're part of the Symphony, and don't gain Discord or leave Echoes from their actions. This makes them very useful to other Celestials. :) I know this is a brief overview -- followup questions are encouraged. But I hope I've made things a little clearer. yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:52:05 -0500 From: unseelie@warwick.net (...jason schneiderman...) Subject: Answers? Just a test to make sure I'm still transponding. Didn't receive a copy of my last post. - -J ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 01:20:17 -0500 (EST) From: Stacy Stroud Subject: Archangel/Prince correspondences Hey, thanks for the huge list of Archangels and Princes! I like most of the additions (though I think I preferred the name "Alain" to "Jordi"). How do Laurence's and Michael's bailiwicks relate? I'm especially curious since Laurence (rather than Michael, as has traditionally been the case) is listed as the commander of God's armies. Also, is there supposed to be some direct correspondence between each Archangel and one particular Demon Prince? That seems to be the case for many of those listed, and the supplement preview does indicate that they'll be covered in pairs. Let's see...Blandine/Beleth, Gabriel/Belial, Michael/Baal, and Yves/Kronos are obvious pairings. You've given us Jean/Vapula and Marc/Nybbas (though Valefor would also fit Marc, and doesn't seem to go well with anyone else). Based on the supplement preview, I'd add Dominic/Asmodeus and Laurence/Saminga, though those are paired more by similarity of function than similarity/opposition of Word. Beyond that, I could see Janus/Malphas as two different outlooks on chaos. Novalis might be paired with Andrealphus or Haagenti, both representing the corruption of natural urges; Saminga would also be a good opponent for Novalis if he's not paired with Laurence. Eli's lighthearted personality might bring him into conflict with Kobal, whose humor is tinged with malice, but I can't work out any direct opposition between Creation and any one Prince's realm. Tossing in Khalid and the other potential new Superiors muddles things further--to say nothing of trying to find opposites for vanished bigwigs Raphael and Uriel (though Raph did tussle with Asmodeus in his best-known appearance). Maybe I'm taking this too far. Stacy Stroud smstro1@pop.uky.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:33:11 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: Re: Archangel/Prince correspondences On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Stacy Stroud wrote: > I like most of the additions (though I think I preferred the name "Alain" to > "Jordi"). I agree... Jordi just reminds me too much of Star Trek, I guess. > How do Laurence's and Michael's bailiwicks relate? I'm especially curious > since Laurence (rather than Michael, as has traditionally been the case) is > listed as the commander of God's armies. Well, my impression is that Laurence is commander specifically of God's armies on _Earth_ -- which still leaves the Ethereal and Celestial realms. That is, Laurence commands all the Soldiers, and Michael commands all the Servitors. Frankly, if I were a demon I'd probably rather tangle with Michael than Laurence... after all, with all the power of the Celestial hosts, you're not going to have to rely on subtlety as much. But if I'm in the Corporeal realm, I don't know from where or how Laurence is going to get me... is that guy on the corner a Soldier? How about that Secret Service agent? The CIA -- controlled by God? Makes a good case for In Nomine: New World Order. (I have a graphic for this, if anyone's interested -- the hand from the Plot cards, with the strings controlling the angel in the Building_In_The_Heavens graphic, and the In Nomine: NWO logo...) -- fish. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:53:20 -0600 From: dpearcy@io.com (Derek Patton Pearcy) Subject: Re: Archangels and Demon Princes >>Currently proposed Demon Princes: >> >>Fleurity, Prince of Drugs (Night Music) > >Hmm. I'd think this falls under Haagenti's domain -- addiction being an >aspect of gluttony. Of course, I could be convinced. Certainly, not all Princes are equal. Fleurity started out within Haagenti's ranks, but it was only with Saminga's help that he ascended to Prince-hood (and for the purposes of Night Music, he's aligned with Saminga). We're trying not to introduce many Archangels or Princes which knock the current balance of politics out of whack -- except of course when the idea behind the new Superior is to knock the current balance of politics out of whack. Case in point, Furfur. >>Magog, Prince of Cruelty (Demonic Player's Guide) >>Mammon, Prince of Greed (Heaven and Hell) These, on the other hand, will be top-notch Superiors, further complicating celestial politics. >>. . . and of course, how could we forget, Furfur, the Demon Prince of Rock >>and Roll, the star of Night Music. > >FURFUR? You named a demon FURFUR? One of the hippest words in the infernal >Symphony and it's held by a demon named FURFUR? Hey, it's up to you. Furfur begins Night Music as the renegade demon of Heavy Metal, a Word which has arguably hit its peak and set in to its waning. But he thinks he's managed to get something on Lucifer, and it's something so good he believes he can roughhouse himself into an undeserved Princedom. But he's not doing it for power, he's merely doing it to thumb his nose at the entire political structure. He's a demon's demon. Besides, Furfur is a very old and venerable demon name. It's been in the family for generations. >>And as long as I'm assembling the FAQ, any other questions? I've already >>gotten "what's the system," "will there be a GURPS version," and "what were >>some books you read" -- and no, I hadn't read all the ones the list >>discussed -- but what else? > >Well, you never did get to my question about the Djinn. But I'm fairly sure >that won't be asked frequently. :) I'd written a very-well-thought-out response to your Djinn question, but this was a week and a half ago, back when you sent that message, back before I could get a PPP session up and running at my house. (Having been spoiled by the SJ Games ISDN line, I just wasn't being patient enough.) Anyway, I was dialing into the shell and checking email that way, but some line noise knocked me offline when I got to the end of the message, trashing the note. I know, it's sad, but after getting my machine back online and getting back into the shell, I drew a complete blank as to what my divinely inspired answer had been. I was so frustrated and bummed about having my good answer trashed, I put off working on it again until I was shamed into it earlier this evening. ;) His question was as follows: > . . . there's the Djinn. I'm having trouble wrapping my >head around them. Is attunement a habit for them that they can't seem to >break? It seems that a band so rooted in apathy wouldn't want to bother >attuning themselves to someone or something (and there are penalties to >discourage it) anyway, so why bother? And what's their connection to the >djinn of myth - they can't geas or conjure, and get bound to items only >through Discord. A poorly-thought-out-and-my-God-I-need-some-coffee answer is this: they attune themselves to things when they want to. It lets them have some feeling of control. As long as a Djinn attunes himself to something and then lets the connection naturally run its course, he's cool and suffers no penalties. It's when he tried to end an attunement before its time that he can get in trouble. (My well-thought-out answer also had something to do with "and frequently your Prince orders you to attune yourself to something, etc.") Their sarcastic and brassy attitude was more Djinn than any other "demonic" archetype I came across. That, and their ability to attune themselves to people but not being able to harm the object of an attunement except at the wishes of that person reminded me of the nasty genie trick of having the man who wanted a million dollers to be crushed by gold coins. The Djinn in general seemed to make a nice analog for the Cherubim. Hey -- I know, it's not great, but I had a much better answer before, I swear. Derek ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 01:22:26 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: References and stuff At 12:36 AM 1/21/97 -0500, Gage2@aol.com wrote: >About references: >The Bible: Revelations is a must (the rest is quite preachy;) Have to agree. Revelations is a damned good read, if not as clear as some people think. >The Prophey w/C. Walken is about the "best" movie on "THIS" subject so far... Just saw it. Have to say "Hellraiser" is better. >I found an In Nomine t-shirt! $20, but it glows in the dark, woooooo. Where? Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:33:25 +0800 From: Colin Sng Subject: questions..... Greeting to all on the List. Just a couple of questions. I think these questions are way late in coming since the Core Book (I like the name too Derek) is already shipping. For the Angels: This there anything about the Christ in the game? How about the Holy Spirit? What of the Saints? and What role (if any) do mortals have in Army of Light? or are they only to be protected? For the Demons: Is the Antichrist mentioned? What about the False Prophet? What role does mortals have in the Army of Darkness? or are only to be twisted? Thanks..... Colin Sng (Singapore) May You Shine as a Light For the World Always... Visit Falcon's Wing (http://home.pacific.net.sg/~falcon) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:18:27 -0800 From: Nicholas Jost Subject: RE: Archangel/Prince correspondences Out of idile curiosity what does "your" In-Nomine card do? All churches get +2 global power? - ---------- From: fish[SMTP:awflower@midway.uchicago.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 1997 4:33 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: Archangel/Prince correspondences On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Stacy Stroud wrote: > I like most of the additions (though I think I preferred the name "Alain" to > "Jordi"). I agree... Jordi just reminds me too much of Star Trek, I guess. > How do Laurence's and Michael's bailiwicks relate? I'm especially curious > since Laurence (rather than Michael, as has traditionally been the case) is > listed as the commander of God's armies. Well, my impression is that Laurence is commander specifically of God's armies on _Earth_ -- which still leaves the Ethereal and Celestial realms. That is, Laurence commands all the Soldiers, and Michael commands all the Servitors. Frankly, if I were a demon I'd probably rather tangle with Michael than Laurence... after all, with all the power of the Celestial hosts, you're not going to have to rely on subtlety as much. But if I'm in the Corporeal realm, I don't know from where or how Laurence is going to get me... is that guy on the corner a Soldier? How about that Secret Service agent? The CIA -- controlled by God? Makes a good case for In Nomine: New World Order. (I have a graphic for this, if anyone's interested -- the hand from the Plot cards, with the strings controlling the angel in the Building_In_The_Heavens graphic, and the In Nomine: NWO logo...) -- fish. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:40:33 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: RE: Archangel/Prince correspondences On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Nicholas Jost wrote: > Out of idile curiosity what does "your" In-Nomine card do? All churches get > +2 global power? Actually, i didn't mean card art... it's just a composite of a number of different images i snatched off the web site. Right now it's only in bitmap form, and I really never thought about making it into a card... Hm. Have to think about that one. (Lay it out next to NWO: End of the World and a Messiah and you've got it made...) -- fish. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:26:38 -0800 From: Dennis Palmero Subject: Lilith & In Nomine Mush Couple of things... Some interesting information on Lilith can be found at http://www.cjnetworks.com/~lilitu/lilith/khephera.html. Nothing 'gospel', of course, just one person's opinion, but a pretty good one nonetheless. Also, I am creating, or at least trying to create, an In Nomine Mush. We have set up the basics (globals, some news files, parts of heaven/hell, etc.) and have a site located at alpha.magibox.net 6250. Until we actually get the book in our hands things are subject to change, but we figured we could at least work on the setting. If anyone would like to help us, please send me an email, or send khalid@ns.net an email and we'll set you right up. Fascist we aren't, but we are trying to create something high-quality and hopefully popular. Oh, and if we can get the MUSH address in the FAQ that would be great. :) I asked Derek about the Mush and he thought it was a great idea so I suppose you might say we have some sort of holy blessing. :) Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:01:19 -0500 From: unseelie@warwick.net (...jason schneiderman...) Subject: Re: questions..... >Greeting to all on the List. Greetings, Colin. > Just a couple of questions. I think these questions are way late in >coming since the Core Book (I like the name too Derek) is already shipping. Since my last post didn't make it, and this covers some of the same ground, I'll take these on. >For the Angels: >This there anything about the Christ in the game? How about the Holy Spirit? Not quite yet. At present, the game only deals with the lowest level of heaven - the one closest to the mortal plain. JC and the Spirit are much closer to God (insert NIN sound-bite here) and player-character angels won't have a chance to deal with them. However, the first five books or so will detail the present State of the War, so they might get a name drop there. >What of the Saints? Saints are going to be Laurence's version of Saminga's Undead -- powerful beings of goodness with special responsibilities. However, most of the "traditional" saints seem to have made their way up the hierarchy by now, and are archangels themselves. All this will be detailed in a future supplement. > and What role (if any) do mortals have in Army of Light? >or are they only to be protected? There are two types of mortals detailed in the game. Ordinary people (5 forces, no songs, not much fun at parties) and Soldiers. The Soldiers of God/Soldiers of Hell are halfway between celestial and mortal. They've got 6 forces (as opposed to a human's 5 and a celestial's 9) and have access to some of the songs. They also leave no echoes and gather no dissonance for actions against the Symphony. Each side has some, which answers the next questions: >For the Demons: >Is the Antichrist mentioned? What about the False Prophet? What role does >mortals have in the Army of Darkness? or are only to be twisted? Again...the Antichrist and the False Prophet are Apocalypse-bound; the world isn't ending *that* soon. :) And I'm fairly sure that it was Bruce Campbell who had that role. :) yours, Jason Schneiderman ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #6 *****************************