in_nomine-digest Thursday, January 30 1997 Volume 01 : Number 009 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:26:20 -0600 From: Drew Johnson Subject: Re: Almost there! On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:55:59 -0400 Adam Conover wrote: > btw... whoever posted that thing about adapting the World of Darkness to In > Nomine or vice versa (I only saw the last message in that particular > thread)... great idea! I haven't actually played in the WoD much... but In > Nomine seems right up White Wolf's alley. :) Think about a Mage/Demon sort > of encounter... heh. Should be fun. Very fun. The only problem might be > with the conflicting "philosophies" about the nature of reality... I don't > know much about Mage, but if I'm correct, they have a certain way of > looking at everything (I don't know what it is, though. :)... as opposed to > the Symphony. One will almost certainly have to "adapt" to the other. :) > > Cheers! > -Daydreamer I guess I could see a mixture of the two worlds. However, I daresay that any demon princess worth her salt would take one look at an angstful vampire and think to herself, "Amateur..." In the same way, I would say that a Mage would be looked at as not much more than a tasty soul to corrupt ("We just want to show you how to be free...") By the way, this is Drew Johnson from Northfield, MN. I play Over the Edge, Feng Shui, and (very soon) In Nomine. - -----[O O O]---------- Drew Johnson ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 97 14:17:37 EST From: Moriah <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: Pronunciation Lots of people in on this one: >>> >> How do you PRONOUNCE In Nomine? >>> > >>> >I've been pronouncing it as "In Nom-In-Ay," with the "in" as in the verb >>> >"win" in both cases. I'm under the impression it's Latin for "In the name >>> >of" >>> >>> Somewhat. It's "In the Name". The word "of" would be subsumed into >>> whoever got their name slapped on it. >>> >> >> I believe it's taken from... >> >> In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. >> >>Latin for: In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. > >Actually, it's taken from "In Nomine Satanis", the French version of the >game, but that's just a step away from the above... 1. "In Nomine" is Latin. That is unquestionable. The French would be something like "en nom". In English, it is translated, "In (the/a) name". Latin doesn't have articles, definite nor indefinite. 2. The Original French game used a Latin title, "In Nomine Satanis" (which, BTW, is bad Latin, it should be "In Nomine Satanae"), which is translated "In the Name of Satan." (The 'of' comes from the ending of 'Satan' which indicates the possessive case.) This was the French rule book for playing demons. The title is an allusion to 'the sign of the cross' or, the trinitarian formula, "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Which, in Latin, would be "In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritu Sancti." For you high school Latin lovers, note that 'Spiritu' is fourth declension, and sanctus -a -um has to be in the first declension, genitive. 3. Pronunciation: We don't know exactly how the Romans pronounced their Latin. Just like English pronunciation changed over the course of four centuries, so has Latin over the course of two millennia. Obviously, the way the Romance (i.e., from the Romans) languages (Spanish, Italian, French) are pronounced give us a clue to how Latin is pronounced. Scholars have come to somewhat of a consensus over how 'classical' Latin, i.e. Latin of the 3rd century BC to the 2nd century AD, was pronounced. And, of course, the Roman Catholic Church has kept Latin alive (it is *not* dead, it is a living language used in some small circles), and it has changed over the centuries, and influenced by how the local natives pronounce their own language. And so, opposed to classical pronunciation, there is ecclesiastical pronunciation. And the classical musical circle have their own ideas of how to sing Latin (choir directors are a closed community who pass their ill gotten ideas of pronunciation back and forth to each other, agaynn and agaynn.) And Spanish, Italian, and French, which are all backward gutter degradations of Latin, pronounce Latin as if it were Spanish, Italian, or French. And so: i = short i as in hit ee = long e as in heat o = short o as in hop oh = long o as in Pope ay = long a as in day e = short e as in hemp eh = a short e that is a little bit like a long a, but is clipped, as in eh? Classical: in NOH-mi-ne (OR..) in NOH-mi-neh Ecclesiastical: in NOH-mi-neh Musical een NOH-mee-nay Ecclesiasticals who took choir: een NOH-mi-nay Ecclesiasticals who speak Eng.: in NO-mi-nay Spanish Speaking: een NOH-mee-neh (clip the OH) Italian Speaking: in NOH-mi-neh (clip the OH) French Speaking: een NOH-meen (as nasally as possible) My recommendation is to use the ecclesiastic since, at least with these two words, there's no practical difference from the classical. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:13:30 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: [In Nomine] IN-WoD? > >> of encounter... heh. Should be fun. Very fun. The only problem might > >be > >> with the conflicting "philosophies" about the nature of reality... I > >don't > >> know much about Mage, but if I'm correct, they have a certain way of > >> looking at everything (I don't know what it is, though. :)... as > >opposed to > >> the Symphony. One will almost certainly have to "adapt" to the > >other. :) Not really completely. The Celestial Chorus in Mage should be able to be integrated into In Nomine without much effort at all; I'm not sure about the other groups yet- hafta wait until after I've read IN... Hmm... I may actually has a reason to buy the Chorus' Tradbook after all. > > Actually, philosophies won't need to be adapted. Almost every > >race has its idea of a world view.... the Symphony would just be one > >more > >philosophy, or if you prefer, the way in which Angelics percieve the > >universe. Afterall, why does the Symphony have to be the real McCoy, > >or > >vice versa? :) Well, if you were playing a Mage-in-In Nomine world (as I understood the original question), you probably would have to. If it was In Nomine-in-Mage, on the other hand... > BTW, what is wrong with having one world view that is universaly > utilized. If it works, why mess with it? To keep your players guessing? > jdye@juno.com > The GM god Oops da "In my last VtM campaign Set and Malkav were good guys" Ogre ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:14:19 -0500 (EST) From: Don Fnordlioni Subject: Re: Pronunciation On 28 Jan 1997, Moriah wrote: [an excellent post about how to pronounce Latin, and I'm looking forward to his reign as line editor.] > And, of course, the Roman Catholic Church has kept Latin alive (it is > *not* dead, it is a living language used in some small circles) And not just the Church -- in law and medicine you'll come across a lot of Latin. Just wanted to point out the RCC doesn't have a corner on the Latin-speaking department, though they use it for the same reasons lawyers and doctors use it -- to maintain an aura of mystery about their respective cults, and to make it difficult for outsiders to know what they're /really/ talking about.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 97 01:08:45 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: Pronunciation At 11:14 PM 1/28/97 -0500, Don Fnordlioni wrote: >On 28 Jan 1997, Moriah wrote: > >[an excellent post about how to pronounce Latin, and I'm looking forward >to his reign as line editor.] > >> And, of course, the Roman Catholic Church has kept Latin alive (it is >> *not* dead, it is a living language used in some small circles) > >And not just the Church -- in law and medicine you'll come across a lot of >Latin. Just wanted to point out the RCC doesn't have a corner on the >Latin-speaking department, though they use it for the same reasons lawyers >and doctors use it -- to maintain an aura of mystery about their >respective cults, and to make it difficult for outsiders to know what >they're /really/ talking about.... You've been playing INWO too much, Don ;> Lawyers may do it for the above reasons, but doctors, scientists, and the Church use Latin because it translates fairly easily into most modern, Western languages (making it a fairly easy learn compared to some other choices) and to have a common language to draw upon to better communicate with each other. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:55:45 +0000 (GMT) From: "David.Evans" Subject: IN release date? Hi everybody, rumour has it that the proposed release date for In Nomine <*fibble*> is going to be 6th February. Is this also to be the release date for those of us residing across the water in the UK (including Scotland) and the rest of Europe? Just asking, that's all. :-) Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:22:46 -0700 (MST) From: Mark Cogan Subject: Re: Pronunciation (pedantic digression; no IN content) On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Andrew Getting wrote: > At 11:14 PM 1/28/97 -0500, Don Fnordlioni wrote: > >On 28 Jan 1997, Moriah wrote: > > > >[an excellent post about how to pronounce Latin, and I'm looking forward > >to his reign as line editor.] > > > >> And, of course, the Roman Catholic Church has kept Latin alive (it is > >> *not* dead, it is a living language used in some small circles) I think it qualifies as 'dead' beacuse it has no *native* speakers: people for whom it is a first language. > >And not just the Church -- in law and medicine you'll come across a lot of > >Latin. Just wanted to point out the RCC doesn't have a corner on the > >Latin-speaking department, though they use it for the same reasons lawyers > >and doctors use it -- to maintain an aura of mystery about their > >respective cults, and to make it difficult for outsiders to know what > >they're /really/ talking about.... > > You've been playing INWO too much, Don ;> Lawyers may do it for > the above reasons, but doctors, scientists, and the Church use Latin because > it translates fairly easily into most modern, Western languages (making > it a fairly easy learn compared to some other choices) and to have a > common language to draw upon to better communicate with each other. I think that Latin is used where it is used because for 1500 or more years Latin (and to a lesser extent, Greek) was the language scholarly work was done in in Europe. And lawyers, doctors, and scientists don't use the Latin language, they just use some terms from latin (scientists in most fields probably use more Greek-derived wors than Latin, and many of the 'latinized' names for organisms used in the binomial (Linnean) classification scheme aren't really in Latin) I don't think it can be argued that latin was 'chosen' because of its ease in translation to other languages (it's probably no easier to translate into Slavic languages than, say, Hindi is, and it certainly is no better for non-indo-european languages like Finnish and Basque). If one were to choose a language for its ready translatability and ease-of-use for Europeans, Esperanto would of course be a better choice. I'll be quiet now. Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 06:38:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Newquist Subject: Re: IN release date? On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, David.Evans wrote: > Hi everybody, > > rumour has it that the proposed release date for In Nomine <*fibble*> is > going to be 6th February. Is this also to be the release date for those > of us residing across the water in the UK (including Scotland) and the > rest of Europe? Just asking, that's all. :-) It's February 5th in the US. - ---------------------------------- Jason Newquist, lists@nocturne.org Network Operations, San Jose Netcom Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:58:12 -0600 From: dpearcy@io.com (Derek Patton Pearcy) Subject: Re: IN release date? David wrote: >rumour has it that the proposed release date for In Nomine <*fibble*> is >going to be 6th February. Is this also to be the release date for those >of us residing across the water in the UK (including Scotland) and the >rest of Europe? Just asking, that's all. :-) The US release date is the 5th of February. The rest of the world, as I understand it, can release it when they get it. I believe this is mostly because, shipping-wise, it wouldn't make all that much sense to hold distribution in, say, Chicago, when copies haven't made it through German customs yet. Derek ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 22:27:04 -0400 From: revonoc@i-2000.com (Adam Conover) Subject: Re: Pedantic digressions galore! <*snip* about 4 times quoted postings, and other assorted ramblings. :> >I don't think it can be argued that latin was 'chosen' because of its ease >in translation to other languages (it's probably no easier to translate >into Slavic languages than, say, Hindi is, and it certainly is no better >for non-indo-european languages like Finnish and Basque). If one were to >choose a language for its ready translatability and ease-of-use for >Europeans, Esperanto would of course be a better choice. Esperanto? I dunno. From what I've heard about it (not much), it was made to be a language that everybody could use, but to do that (and to keep some semblance of cultural heritage) it tried to COMBINE languages... ugh. Languages now are convoluted enough as it is... trying to combine them all... ugh. My idea of the perfect artificial language would be something very SIMPLE... I'm not a linguist (yet... I'm only in high school)... but it would be much more simple if there could just be a simple sentance structure, without all the mucking about with conjugation, irregular verb forms, etc. (example: 'i' before 'e', except after 'c'. Except for sometimes, such as in 'neighbor' and 'weigh'. Ah, but that doesn't either! 'being', 'fleeing', 'seeing'... many, many more words. It makes the rule POINTLESS!) Try this (this is obviously isn't complete, or even efficent... I'm just making this up on the spot). I'll use Spanish as an example for now (as that's the language I'm taking in school...) To say: "I go to the beach." You say: "Yo voy a la playa." Way too much conjugation. How about this? To say: "I go to the beach." You say: "Yo ir a la playa." You see? Conjugation is completely unnessecary... the easiest thing to do in our new language is to add a word if you need to change somethings meaning. For instance: (I'll use English in both examples this time) To say: "I went to the beach." You say: "I past go to the beach." See? :) Ok... that's my pseudo-language for the day. Remember, though, that I have no formal training in language at all, so I could be entirely wrong. But I hope that I'm not. :) - --------------------------------------------------------------------- If life is just a game of Dungeons and Dragons, the DM really sucks! ======================================================= | Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man? | | Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of sashami? | | Never assume that what you see and feel is real! | ======================================================= Geek Code: G d? s+: a---- C+++>++++$ U>++ P? L>++ !E? W++>+++$ N+(++) !o? K-? !w--- !O M++ !V? PS(+)? !PE-(--) Y+ !PGP- t+(++) 5- X- R++>+++* tv+ b+++(++)>++++$ DI+++(++)>++++ D---(----) G>+++ e h r- y- revonoc@i-2000.com http://www.i2.i-2000.com/~revonoc/main.html ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #9 *****************************