From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Wed Oct 1 18:41:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27876 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 18:41:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA10083 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 17:44:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 17:44:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199710012244.RAA10083@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #373 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, October 1 1997 Volume 01 : Number 373 In this digest: Re: IN> What's the Buzz? (was Re: IN> Tilimok & Werewolves) Re: IN> Jordi Re: IN> just a thought Re: IN> Las Vegas and Archangels (was Chicago and Lilith and Marc) Re: IN> What's the Buzz? (was Re: IN> Tilimok & Werewolves) Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Re: Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine IN> Casca's Conversion Re: IN> Music (was: More Prophecy stuff) Re: IN> What's the Buzz? (was Re: IN> Tilimok & Werewolves) Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine Re: IN> LARPS - resolving actions IN> On Blasting White Wolf stuff (Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted) Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action Re: IN> Re: IN A thought - opinions wanted Re: IN> Tilimok & Beelzebub IN> Casca's Conversion - part 2 IN> RE:just a thought Re: IN> Multitasking Superiors Re: IN> What's the Buzz? (was Re: IN> Tilimok & Werewolves) Re: IN> Boo Berries (fluffathon) Re: IN> Re: IN A thought - opinions wanted IN> Fluff: Archangel Beth Re: IN> Chez Ennui's Son-o'-God thing Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action IN> silliness ahoy! IN> Jean's nature Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine Re: IN> RE:just a thought IN> On playing demons Re: IN> Multitasking Superiors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 14:43:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Dorothy Bixler Subject: Re: IN> What's the Buzz? (was Re: IN> Tilimok & Werewolves) On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Casca wrote: > > > The association with Lilith confused me, until I thought about it. > > The Word of Freedom covers anarchy, too, and nature is the ultimate > > anarchy. > > Um. Lots of animals live in very orderly societies. Even non-social > organisms form parts of ecologies that exhibit lawful behavior. > Any organism is an intricate and orchestrated mechanism. And, below > the level of the organism, matter runs according to natural law. > Granted, this is stretching the meaning of "law" some, but likewise > is it stretching "anarchy" to include nature's chaotic elements. > > Earl Wajenberg > It's very true that many animals live in strictly ordered societies (hive mentality and all that). I voted for the association with Lilith as more of Belezebub's side of overthrowing the civilized rules of man. It's not so much of him wanting no rules (as in Anarchy) but more wanting rule by natural selection. The most fit reproduce; the rest either addapt or perish. Social order in animals is purely instinctive- wolves form packs because that's how their minds work. When you overthrow the social norms of "civilized society", you are free to revert back to the natural order, where the pack is led by the strongest. Human is just another species of animal, after all. *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* "Gidget, have you been laying with the Horned One again?" -MST3K's Mike from "The Thing the Couldn't Die" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 14:59:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Jordi > Anyone besides me thinking of the movies [late 60s or early 70s] "Ben" > and "Willard"?, maybe [what was that movie's name?] "Food of the Gods"? Yes. There was at least one sequal, but I haven't watched any of the FotG movies. Ben and Willard could make for interesting ideas WRT Jordi or Beelzebub. > tom t., mandarin's butterfly to James, the Stone Malakim > "I am James, I will help you" Oops da Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 15:27:20 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> just a thought Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > (But Impudites can be so *Charming*... Hm. Andre, the > Prince Charming your mother warned you about.) You talking to me? :-) I think it's less Prince Charming and more Big Bad Wolf... Andre, D.P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:58:56 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Las Vegas and Archangels (was Chicago and Lilith and Marc) Leath Sheales wrote: > I don't know. I picture Area 51 as being a heavily guarded tether of > Jean, where he brings captured 'alien' technology that Vapula > released to shock humanity. This way he can dismantle it, see what > Vapula's doing and keep it away from humans until the Symphony says > it's time for them to know. Picture it, can't you see squads of > Jean's Malakim patrolling the grounds as Men In Black? Sure I can!! Andre, D.P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 14:55:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> What's the Buzz? (was Re: IN> Tilimok & Werewolves) > On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Casca wrote: > > > On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Donald G Bixler wrote: > > > > [snip very nice writeup] > > Thank you. We wrote the majority of it on a six hour road trip to see > Donald's parents. Insert obligatory inlaw joke. > > I'm rather surprised not to see Baal or Belial here. The War can always > > make use of agents provocateur, and Belial is into wanton destruction... > > > You know, I forget why Donald and I decided against those two... mind > jogging my memory , Hun? IIRC- Baal was just too civil, and Belial and > him tended to have ego conflicts. That's pretty much it, as I said in a separate response. > *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* > Who's about to be very late to Animal Physiology Bad Djinni, bad! ;'} Oops da Ogre, nothing witty to say here mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:22:28 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action > >> Heh, heh... I have this image of a referee with a handbell, ringing it as > >> loud as your Disturbance calls for...and players come running from blocks > >> around. > I liked the idea of air horns (easier to muffle, and definitely louder). Jesus (or Eli, you decide...), can you imagine a game like that?? "Hey, Dave, someone has just- "What?! I can't hear what you- "I said someo- "Huh?!?!" Andre, D.P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 14:51:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine > Right, key connections, I knew I was missing something. ISS was based on the > "Mirror, Mirror" episode of Star Trek. "We aren't Starfleet, we're Imperial > Starfleet, we're evil." This attitude led to a *lot* of problems for the > leaders caused by a minority of players, which is my concern. What sorts of problems? > This past year, in one of Seattle's suburbs, a family was killed by a badly > disturbed pair of young men who had been hanging out with World of Darkness > LARPers. I'm not talking about an "on the whole" situation, I'm talking > about one or two bad fruit ruining the game for a whole lot of people. And that ties in with a couple of twits who can't tell reality from fantasy? That sort of person exists everywhere in life. And I still don't see the connection with the WW games nor the evil star trek thing. > I would think so, but my concern is still the disturbed individuals who cause > problems, not the hard-core roleplayers who like the chalenge. Well, if you're the GM, you just use the almighty Gm veto power. "No thank you, but I don't think that your child-molesting demon is quite appropriate for what we are wanting to do here. Since this is the third character like this, it seems to me that we just aren't seeing things eye-to-eye as to what sort of game the others players and I are wanting. WOuld you please leave?" > >yours, > >-J > > Mark (sorry about the confusion...) Donald G. Bixler, still confused mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:16:08 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> Casca's Conversion Casca wrote: > > > Personally, I can't stand IN mechanics, so I've adapted the material to > > > Storyteller. I'm currently running said IN/WW game, and it's working > > > marvelously. Once I make sure all the glitches have been ironed out, > > > would anyone be interested if I posted my conversion rules? > > Seriously, they'd be appreciated. > > Thanks for the vote of confidence. They'll be posted as soon as I make sure > there are no bugs hiding within (ran my first ST IN combat on > Sunday....found a LOT of things to tweak.) I could use it too... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Bowman Subject: Re: IN> Music (was: More Prophecy stuff) For other music recommendations: I've found that Dogs of War by Pink Floyd is great. Passion by Peter Gabriel works well, as do Cocteau Twins and, particularly, Dead Can Dance. Michael Bowman bvmi@odin.cc.pdx.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 15:06:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> What's the Buzz? (was Re: IN> Tilimok & Werewolves) > On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > > Um. Lots of animals live in very orderly societies. Even non-social > > organisms form parts of ecologies that exhibit lawful behavior. [Snip Casca's response] Thank you Casca. You beat me to the response and I don't think that I could measurably improve on it. > -- Casca > (bertishg@db.erau.edu) Oops da Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 14:55:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Dorothy Bixler Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Gregory Littmann wrote: > > In Nomine seems to be directly targeted at such people. I mean, why else > play a demon unless you think it would be fun to play someone evil? For some, it can be a exersise to better understan your own nature. Why are you good (holy, divine, peaceful, ect.)? From that question- what makes someone evil? Some times it's not so much as playing someone evil because evil is fun (*infernal grin*) but playing someone evil because by doing so you remind yourself what is holy in you. It of course works the other way, as well. (Snip) > > > My solution so far (as > > GM) has been to ban demons > > The best, and only, thing to do if you don't want evil P.C.s in your In > Nomine game. > This is true. You're the GM. As long as no one in your gaming group would truely like the experience of playing a demon, then more power to you. This setting is big enough that if you wish, you really could just run the game centered compleately around angels. However, I feel that if one of the players would like to try playing a demon, then perhaps you could arrange for a trial run, to see how things work out. It may no be near;y as bad as you imagine it to be. *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* Late for class again :p "Gidget, have you been laying with the Horned One again?" -MST3K's Mike from "The Thing the Couldn't Die" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 15:24:04 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> LARPS - resolving actions Benjamin D. Hutchins wrote: > First LARP ever? Noooo. First one published commercially by a major > game studio, possibly Gee, I didn't know... It was the firs one to arrive in my country, at least... > rock-paper-scissors is such a universal > meme that it gets used in a lot of 'em simply by parallel invention. > > Plus, it doesn't take up too much time... win, lose or tie, you know > pretty much straight away. Yeah, I think I'll stick to that... Specially after Nathaniel's 32 finger positions tip!! Prince Andre (now thinking in some *other* finger positions... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 15:40:06 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> On Blasting > However, I have noticed a trend wherein it is becoming fashinable on this > list to blast WW and its products. I would like to remind the list that > there are some of us who -do- like WW and its products. I've noticed it too. Fellas, we share a common ground here - which is IN - -, but we do have many differences. Some people like WW, some don't; some people spank their wives/husbands, some don't; some people even watch Babylon 5! What I'm trying to say is: Lets leave these things out of the list, ok? Some comparison, some funny 'Beavis, The Angel of MTV' is ok, but lets stop blasting anything & anyone. Ok? Andre, D.P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:25:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: White Wolf stuff (Re: IN> A thought - opinions wanted) At 11:54 PM -0400 9/30/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>If SJG puts out a new version of IN which implements all of >the speculations posted here, then, yeah, they're guilty of rewriting >everything for a second edition.<<< > >Not to mention we'd be guilty of making the world almost as incoherent as >the World of Darkness. > >-David (oops, sorry, couldn't resist ;)) Ah, but did you even try? (Prince David, whose Word is "Resistance is Futile"....?) Easy on the WW stuff, all -- much as I, myself, have some firm viewpoints about it, this *is* the *In Nomine* list... (IOW, conversions good, bashing/defending no.) (ObStarTrek: "Down is good, Spot. Up is No.") - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:44:20 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action At 6:34 PM -0500 10/1/97, Shadowcat wrote: >On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>At 2:38 PM -0300 9/26/97, Andre Ribeiro wrote: >>>MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >>[...]> >>>> Mark (I wanna be a Cherub of David!) >>> >>> I just can't wait to meet the Lilim players... :-) >>> Andre >> >> I'm sure they'd dress appropriately, most dread Prince Andre. >> >>(Hey, another reason to wander around in the spandex and leather...) > > YES, PLEASE. I would pay to see this... Hey, Karakash, think we should tell SJ to do up the Archangel of Archives postcard set? Think it'd sell? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:21:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN A thought - opinions wanted At 8:36 PM +0000 9/30/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> Now here's where things get kind of odd the game calls Gabriel an >> Ofinite and further names her the AA of FIRE while the movie >> follows the Jewish out look on gabriel that is (and if you >> remember the book Thomas had with him in his office at the police >> station, sorry I am running from memory and cant be sure the >> Title, stated the Gabriel was the Angel of death. > >Hmmm - I wonder why Dan decided on her as Fire? Any of the >net.prescences know what he used as his source? No clue. However, s/he is listed on p. 342 of Gustav Davidson's _A Dictionary of Angels including the fallen ones_ as a Spirit of the Sun... (And also an angel of Aquarius/January, governor over the Moon, patron of Monday...) Also as angel of: Annunciation, resurrection, mercy, and vengeance. (p. 350) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:47:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Tilimok & Beelzebub At 12:16 PM -0500 10/1/97, Donald G Bixler wrote: >> A while back, someone posted a very similar demon to the list, using the >> name Beelzebub (or one of the cooler spelling variations), Prince of >> Beasts. (I assume Beelzy was chosen 'cause of his title "Lord of the >> Flies," which is reminiscent of the Goldman book about the descent of >> humans into bestial behavior.) It was one of the 2 or 3 unofficial Prince >> writeups that I really liked, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto >> ArchBeth's character pages. > >The ArcAngel just doesn't like me. ;'} I'm glad that you liked it, as >is my wife, I'm sure. I've been busy! I gotta get to the INC... I've got a bunch of things for it. (Now, if only PageMill didn't do such suspicious things...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:40:49 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> Casca's Conversion - part 2 > Nope. I do unholy things to game mechanics. F'rinstance: > This is how it works: One die is designated 'positive', the other > 'negative'. Before the dice are rolled, the Attribute + Ability dots are > added to give a base value. The dice are rolled, and the lowest -absolute > value- is chosen, giving a range of +9 to -9. (If the numbers are the > same, the die roll is considered zero.) This 'bonus' is then added to the > base value, giving me a total. The difficulty number is then subtracted > from the total; the remaining result is compared against a chart to > determine level of success. (Difficulty numbers and success levels are > beyond the scope of this post, and should be explained separately.) > If the player feels that the total isn't enough, he may spent a Willpower > point -- or, in this case, an Essence -- to roll on the Bonus die > (remember the third die?). This bonus, which is always positive, is then > added to the original score. > > Confused yet? ;) Er... Maybe I won't be able to use it at all... :-) Andre, D.P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:53:58 -0400 From: "Chuck Ryan" Subject: IN> RE:just a thought > > Thomas also read at that time though posibly from a different book > > the discription of Uzuel as the Luitenent to the Sereph or AA > > Gabriel this showes there alience and places Gabriel as not only > > the angel of death but as a sereph not an Ofanite this has been a > > sticking point in our campaign from the start as Micheal has > > always traditionaly been asosiated with fire and Gabriel with > > water. > > What tradition are you coming from, for this? I'd appreciate > references (esp online ones)... > Sorry I was not more clear the tradition is Judism the sorce and again I 'm at work an unable to find the author or publisher was the Kabalistic Encyclopedia Gabriel = water Micheal=fire Rapheal= air Uriel = stone CHUCK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:08:51 -0300 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: Re: IN> Multitasking Superiors > Or, are Superiors multitasking? > >> > Yes...in almost exactly the same way the President of the United States > can...except that a demon prince probably has a souped up version of the > Celestial song of motion...and probably the songs of projection as well.... > > And like the President, they lead *really* busy lives. Hmmm, I liked the image... "Good evening, Lutal." "Good evening, Mr. Prince!" "Good evening, Sondra. What do we have tonight?" "Good evening, Mr. Prince! You got a reunion with your S&M staff in 5 minutes, an appointment with Asmodeus at midnight and five thousands servants in waiting calls." "Hmm, see which word they're more inclined and send some Wordies to meet them... But keep the necros though. I'm feeling rather gothic this evening..." "And, Mr. Prince, Princess Lilith is waiting in the Personal Room..." " Sondra, please cancel *everything* 'till 2 A.M...." Andre, D.P. P.S.: Writing this, I found myself wondering... Is there some Celestial who set the Superiors agenda?? Like a secretary of sorts? He should be Word-bound, dontcha think? 'Sondra, Lilim of Lust, the Demon of Andre's Agenda'... Hmmm... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:17:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> What's the Buzz? (was Re: IN> Tilimok & Werewolves) On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Donald G Bixler wrote: > Well, Baal's too reserved and refined for Buzzy's tastes and Belial and > Beelzebub have a longstanding enimity. (Two no-nonsense types who are a > touch paranoid plus the critters vs. fire thing.) Hmm...makes sense, I suppose, though Belial should be added to the 'Hostile' list if this is the case. > > The association with Lilith confused me, until I thought about it. The > > Word of Freedom covers anarchy, too, and nature is the ultimate anarchy. > > Right. Mind you, Lilith is probably merely amused by this and doesn't > return the feelings. I get the feeling Lilith is amused by a great many things... Why is Haagenti considered Hostile? I'd think that their words would have little to do with each other... > > Just rambling. Very nice job. :) > > > Thank you! > ??? Afraid I don't get it. - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:33:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Boo Berries (fluffathon) At 12:58 AM -0400 10/1/97, Colin Fredericks wrote: >>>only female and with bits of text clinging to my forearms. You can >>>keep the image shirtless if you want.) >> >>*mrow* Now there's some artwork worth having, he says, after having the >>priveledge (yes, I suppose it is) of playing one of the GURPS IOU games at >>GenCon this year. Let me explain (ObPrincessBride: No, there is to much.) Let >>me sum up for those of you who could make it: Chain link becomes her nicely. > >And I quote, from of all sources, HOL: > "...we here at Dirtmerchant feel no need to promote the >all-too-popular 'Armor? (giggle giggle) No, this chainmail teddy and >leather G-string will protect me *fine*.' image of women in RPG's." > > Shirtless + chainmail = no skin left on chest (ouch). :) Actually, if you purchase it from the Chain Maile place at GenCon, you're in error. Their chainmail bras are *very* comfortable, though one should use a bit of silk as "lining" to avoid being gotten for "indecent exposure." (Plus, the stuff will rub off gray-black on your skin after a while. I don't know why.) The only "problem" is getting it on straight, and making sure the shoulder straps aren't too narrow -- they left little imprints on my shoulders after a while. Protection? I want protection from somebody with a big old sword, I figure that the Indiana Jones technique works for me. Either that, or have the Kyrio of Lightning with NC: Wings land the car on the bloke. (Now, if all the photos of me at GenCon hadn't come out making me look forshortened and *fat*, I'd put some on my pages. O:< ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:40:54 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN A thought - opinions wanted > > What tradition are you coming from, for this? I'd appreciate > > references (esp online ones)... > > > > Back during the "AA of Water" thread, I mentioned this. My reference was > Amber Wolfe's "In the Shadow of the Shaman", published by Llewellyn > [sp?]. She is, or at least claims to be, a Wiccan who has studied under > various Native Americans and fused their teachings with her "own" into > an Aquarian Shamanism [her name--it could just as easily be called > Aquarian Wiccanism, probably]. This was also the first time Uriel was > mentioned where it made an impression on me, reminds me very much of > IN's Yves. What Ms. Wolfe's sources were and whether any of them are > online is unknown to me. Hmmm - I was hoping for a more, um, official source. Or at least one that associated itself with Judeo-Christian beliefs in some way... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "What was that popping sound?" "A paradigm shifting without a clutch." - Dilbert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:39:53 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> Fluff: Archangel Beth >Sorry, I'm married. Can't score with the Line Editor. Have to And don't we all regret that? ;) -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:26:18 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> Chez Ennui's Son-o'-God thing > Let's imagine that Jesus is a Saint sent to earth to >help people, instruct and teach. Why not send back one of >the first souls to reach heaven, Abel? According to the >bible, he was a good man, and reverent. For a more fun >twist, what if _Cain_ had redeemed himself and was sent >back from heaven to help his fellow man? ;) And Cain might even have the guilt-complex required to endure a terribly painful death like a crusifixion. The irony would be delicious -- he own death redeems everyone's sins, including and especially his own. -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:28:03 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Live-Action > Almost _no one_ has seen one beyond the old-timers. They >faded from view about eight(?) years ago and are awfully hard to >come by now. With the advances in electronics, they could probably >be the size of a keychain now, but would they sell? (They were >_awesome_ when dice were too inconvenient to use.) I think they'd sell if they were very, very cheap -- cheap enough that the average (poor) LARP player could be required to buy one. No more than ten bucks. -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:59:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin D. Hutchins" Subject: IN> silliness ahoy! And now, it's time for another product of a silly discussion with some friends of mine. (The other three characters are in the works... if no one pelts me with rotten eggs and fruit after this, I'll post them too, when they're done... :) - --G. - -- Benjamin D. Hutchins, cofounder and Keeper-Straight of the Continuity Eyrie Productions, Unlimited - An AnimeTech Limited Company -><- Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.eyrie.net/ - ---snip--- ZORAK Djinn Servitor of Fate CORPOREAL FORCES - 4 Strength 10 Agility 6 ETHEREAL FORCES - 2 Intelligence 6 Precision 2 CELESTIAL FORCES - 3 Will 5 Perception 7 Essence: 9 Dissonance: 0 Vessel: Space Mantis/4 (-3 Charisma) Role: Evil Would-Be Galactic Conqueror and Talk Show Bandleader/6 (Status 4) Skills: Language (Latin)/1, Lying/4 Songs: Charm (Celestial/3), Healing (Corporeal)/5 ATTUNEMENTS: Djinn of Fate, Impudite of Fate DISCORD: None The world knows Zorak as an alien would-be conqueror, captured by the hero known as Space Ghost and imprisoned at his headquarters on Ghost Planet, where he is forced to act as bandleader on Space Ghost's talk show and co-host "Cartoon Planet". The truth, as usual, is far more sinister. Zorak is a demonic Servitor of Kronos, the Demon Prince of Fate. His mission is threefold. He must determine if Space Ghost really is the Remnant of the angel Tarloziel, a once-powerful Malakite Master of War who lost most of his Forces and most of his mind in battle with Servitors of Asmodeus. If he -is-, Zorak must help him toward his fate, driving him to Evil - for even the Remnant of a Malakite would be of tremendous study value to the Forces of Hell. Zorak was also ordered to search for the Remnant of Tarloziel's arch-nemesis, the Calabite Brak, a Baron of Victory whom Baal loaned to Asmodeus for the battle with Tarloziel. Brak was a favorite of Baal's, and the Prince of the War would give much to have him back. Although the last of his mandates has been accomplished - Brak's Remnant really -is- a prisoner of Space Ghost, and appears with him and Zorak on "Cartoon Planet" - Zorak's other goals are proving harder to accomplish. He's almost certain that Space Ghost -is- the Remnant of Tarloziel - if nothing else, he has Tarloziel's signature artifacts, the Bracers of Power and the Cloak of Invisibility, and he has Tarloziel's attitude. Still, Zorak hasn't been able to make - -absolutely- certain - it's so hard with Remnants. And even if he is a Remnant, Space Ghost's possession of the Power Bands makes him more than a match for Zorak. (To help with this part of the problem, Vapula, who looks forward to supervising the prospective Malakite dissection with great glee, has sent a Servitor of his own, Moltar, to assist Zorak.) For now, Zorak pretends to be Space Ghost's prisoner and and does his best to drive him toward Evil, all the while seeking categorical proof that he is Tarloziel's Remnant, and not just some deranged mortal who stumbled upon the Power Bands and Inviso-Cloak. When he is certain, he will strike - to carry the Remnant to Hell and claim his reward if the answer is "yes", or to take the powerful celestial artifacts from the mortal who holds them and give them to his master, if the answer is "no". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 97 17:01 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: IN> Jean's nature >> He's very busy, so he >> tends to use his Servitors as extensions of himself -- he's the brain, >> they're the hands. It's simply more efficient that way. Thus the >> micromanagement aspect. > >Of course, he wouldn't BE so busy if he didn't micromanage so much, >but does this every penetrate? No. He's not stupid, so the basic >reason must be that he *likes* being busy. It may also be (as I was sort of suggesting) that he really does get things done better and quicker by micro-managing. It doesn't work that way in the real world, of course, but how many managers are significantly smarter than the people they manage, much less supergenius-level non-human intelligences. It makes a difference when the micromanager is nearly always *right*! Remember that angels *aren't* humans, *are* usually superhuman, and Archangels are off the scale of regular angels. Jean, whom I postulate to be the most intelligent of the AAs (maybe excepting Yves), is probably *really* scary.... I tend to think of Jean as the smartest of the AAs, and Yves as the wisest (in game terms, highest Intelligence and highest Perception, respectively). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 97 17:18 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine >> These are >> the "isn't it cool to be evil" types that make me wish I were a Malakim of >> Michael and could smite them with a Bloody Great Axe {tm}. > >In Nomine seems to be directly targeted at such people. I mean, why else >play a demon unless you think it would be fun to play someone evil? Demons aren't *necessarily* evil, though they are nearly always seriously selfish, and often are outright evil. The ones who aren't can be interesting characters, though -- look at some of the demon NPCs in Night Music, for example. Or Marcus, who is sometimes a sympathetic character, even is he is also sometimes a real s.o.b. Part of the point of IN for Derek at least, I think, is that some of the demons are "nicer" people than some of the angels -- there are shades of gray here, and sometimes it's hard to tell who's on which side without a program.... That said, I'll also mention that I specifically excluded "normal" demons and Soldiers of Hell from my game, limiting PCs to at worst "neutrals". It's easier to explain that way (and easier to keep party cohesion if you don't mix sides outright). > Surely, if the GM is allowing the players to be >demons, he is *expecting* them to be as evil as they can. And so the >players *should* be if they are playing their characters. If you don't >want evil in great steaming bucketsful, don't play demons in In Nomine. Not necessarily, as I pointed out above. But it is the *likely* outcome if you allow demons -- working a demonic campaign that didn't just run with the stereotypes would be pretty hard for me, at least. It takes a serious amount of player and GM sophistication. I can imagine it working, but you'd need a *really* good group to pull it off. On the other hand, *anyone* can play evil characters (not necessarily *want to*, but would know how). Perhaps a distressing aspect of the human mind, now that I think of it. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 16:46:36 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> RE:just a thought Chuck Ryan wrote: > > > > Thomas also read at that time though posibly from a different book > > > the discription of Uzuel as the Luitenent to the Sereph or AA > > > Gabriel this showes there alience and places Gabriel as not only > > > the angel of death but as a sereph not an Ofanite this has been a > > > sticking point in our campaign from the start as Micheal has > > > always traditionaly been asosiated with fire and Gabriel with > > > water. > > > > What tradition are you coming from, for this? I'd appreciate > > references (esp online ones)... > > > > Sorry I was not more clear the tradition is Judism the sorce and again I > 'm at work an unable to find the author or publisher was the Kabalistic > Encyclopedia > > Gabriel = water > Micheal=fire > Rapheal= air > Uriel = stone Yes, these are the same associations Ms. Wolfe used. Also Gabriel=west Michael=south Raphael=east Uriel=north tom t., mandarin's butterfly of James the Stone Malakim "Just go to Chinatown, ask for James." "I am James, I will help you." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 15:05:20 -0700 (PDT) From: nightgaunt@earthlink.net (Alexander Shearer) Subject: IN> On playing demons The recent burst of WW/IN discussion prompts me to ask this: How do y'all deal well with playing demons? I've considered it, but looking at each option, I just don't like them. More to the point, I just don't want to spend my free time pretending to screw people over left and right. Obviously, I don't have to (and I'd also have to be /playing/ IN to have that choice, but school prevails), but I'm curious about this. Is this a problem for anyone else? I've run games with an evil tilt in the past, from the initial Shadowrun games (far too many random guards getting shot) to a Sabbat game and a an all-Setite game (both V:tM). Toward the end of the Sabbat campaign, I was a bit sick of wanton killing by the characters, but neither the Sabbat campaign nor the Setite one featured a whole lot of interaction with non-supernatural types (the Setite game was a particularly fun bit of intra-kindred twistedness). Anyway, returning to topic, I just can't get over the unpleasantries involved in actually playing a demon. The basic problem seems to be that a lot of what the demons do can work on anyone, regardless of their moral character, etc. The whole idea of playing a Shedim who can just waltz in and instantly make a random person do something more hideous than they've ever done...well, it doesn't appeal to me. That said, I'm not trying to rag on people who do play demons. Hmmm...I might try playing a Lilim sometime, should I ever get the chance. I can deal with people digging their own holes... Alexander Shearer nightgaunt@earthlink.net gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:52:21 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Multitasking Superiors > "Hmm, see which word they're more inclined and send some Wordies to meet >them... But keep the necros though. I'm feeling rather gothic this evening..." > "And, Mr. Prince, Princess Lilith is waiting in the Personal Room..." > " Sondra, please cancel *everything* 'till 2 A.M...." > > Andre, D.P. > >P.S.: Writing this, I found myself wondering... Is there some Celestial who set >the Superiors agenda?? Like a secretary of sorts? He should be Word-bound, >dontcha think? 'Sondra, Lilim of Lust, the Demon of Andre's Agenda'... Hmmm... > Hm. Sorry. I had to include this. Piece from one of my Caliah stories: she's running messages round Hell to the Princes, and has come across a Lilim who is unhappy in her job... (Caliah's a low-ranking Habbalite of Baal, to explain a bit) - --- At least I now had directions to the whereabouts of the other three Princes of Shal-Mari: I decided to try Andrealphus first, as he would probably be the hardest to trail once I lost track of him. The Lilim had informed me that he was staying at one of his main brothels, and expected to be there at least another few hours. The crowds roiled round me as I shouldered my way through the streets, hoping I'd reach it before his interest in the place - or its inhabitants - waned. When I got there, I found entry surprisingly easy. Shameful. I could have been anyone, an assassin or spy, and the doors were wide open.I pigeonholed a couple of disapproving thoughts about Shal-Mari to join all the others, and carefully stepped inside, avoiding frenzied multiples of bodies as I explored the place, looking for the private areas. A door opened to my hand, in the more expensive area of the brothel, and I could hear the moaning coming from behind the heaped desk. I peered over cautiously. One never knows what to expect in the private rooms of the Prince of Lust. Though I admit that I hadn't expected a suited Lilim with glasses and her head in her hands. Either truly perverse, or truly weird. She raised her head half an inch. "He's busy. He hasn't got any appointments free for the next six months. He's very busy. Do you know where I can find four virgins twenty years old with black hair?" "Afraid not." The waves of desperation coming off her were things of beauty. "I take it you don't qualify?" She sniffed. "If I didn't, I'd be asking for five. Seriously. This sounded like a cushy desk job at the Guildhall." Her eyes widened appealingly behind the glasses. "I'll _owe_ you." I eyed the desk, piled high with love-notes, assignations, favours, and several devices that I couldn't figure out. "He's got you sorting his personal diary? You poor thing." She sifted papers between her fingers, and repeated, like a mantra, "It sounded like a cushy desk job. No hassle. No paranoids. No big guns. No weird tech." I carefully let the sheer depression deepen, tasting it in my mouth, before saying, "Perhaps I can help." "You could?" "Sure." I shrugged. "But I want a Geas from you that you won't tell anyone who gave you the idea. And I want to see your Prince, right after." She gnawed her lip with daintily pearly fangs, then shrugged. "I've got nothing to lose. You've got a deal. What do I do?" I smirked. "Call the Game. Ask for their help." She sat bolt upright. "Are you out of your tiny little mind?" Papers fluttered in scented heaps to the ground as I claimed a corner of desk. "Let them think you're a ditzy bimbo, and they'll grab the chance to send in a few spies. Then you tell your Prince that they're sending in spies, but you've got it under control, and this is a chance to give them some misinformation. You win both ways, and the Game gets royally," I grinned, "screwed." She blinked, twice, then offered her hand to shake. "Your name's a secret with me. And he's in the corridor back there, third door on the right, the mud bath." I shook it, still grinning, and sauntered for the corridor. - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #373 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.