From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Oct 3 22:13:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24287 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 22:13:27 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA16517 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:54:33 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:54:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199710040254.VAA16517@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #383 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, October 3 1997 Volume 01 : Number 383 In this digest: Re: IN> On playing demons Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine Re: Mark's vision of In Nomine (Re: IN>WW vs. In Nomine) IN> A sympathetic demon Re: IN> On playing demons Re: IN> Lilim and Malakim (fwd) Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine Re: faq/errata ( was: Re: IN> d666 patches) Re: IN> How I See Demons - Sidenote IN> Band Attunements Re: IN> On playing demons IN> How I See Demons Re: IN> Short Jean Thoughts Re: IN> How I See Demons Re: IN> Short Jean Thoughts Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine IN> [fluff] WW vs. IN Re: IN> On playing demons Re: IN> [fluff] WW vs. IN Re: IN> Band Attunements [LONG FLUFF] Prince of a guy (was IN> How I See Demons) Re: IN> New Product Idea Re: IN> [fluff] WW vs. IN Re: IN> [fluff] WW vs. IN Re: IN> On playing demons Re: [LONG FLUFF] Prince of a guy (was IN> How I See Demons) Re: IN> On playing demons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:34:02 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> On playing demons At 6:26 PM -0700 10/2/97, Alexander Shearer wrote: >[A lot of snippage. Text liposuction, if you will.] >>You don't have to screw people over -- though it's probably typical >>enough with demon groups -- but demons probably do have to be >>ruthless about their goals. If they have to push a toddler's carriage >>into traffic for some reason, most demons will do it. I view most >>demons (with the exception of Shedim) as utterly *a*moral, so focused >>on their own self that nobody else is quite real, nobody else matters. >>They can do whatever they *want*. (Sometimes that's evil, sometimes >>it's merely cold.) > > This brings to mind the Sabbat game I ran lo those many years ago >(2-3). They were basically selfish/amoral. After a while, I just got sick of >the straight line solutions this produced (it's really amazing how much >easier tasks can become when you can just kill people). Well, in IN, there's a little more reason for amoral to not want to kill folks -- disturbance. The GM does have the option to have the echoes attach to the *demon* and not the site itself, after all. >>Shedim are squicky, squicky, squicky. They give demons a bad name. >> > > Joy. Well, they certainly make me a little ill. I just look at them >and I can't think of anything even moderately entertaining about playing one. One of Asmodeus', maybe, who doesn't have to corrupt the host. >>Habbalah are also somewhat interesting -- they're so utterly lunatic. >>Check out some of Maya's stories. ( http://www.tcp.co.uk/~maya Take >>the In Nomine link. ) They also get to despise (other) demons. > > I've read some of those. Good stuff. Check out her second Caliah story. >>Do note, however, that the more they use their resonances, the more >>likely they are to suffer a backlash or worse -- a Divine Intervention. >>Also, don't forget that humans can spend Essence (unconsciously, all >>at once) to resist something that they really don't want to do. If >>they make the resistance, the demon usually has trouble affecting >>them again soon. > > I must state first: I don't buy DIs as any kind of dissuader. That's because you use statistics instead of seeing how the dice fall. My dice do such crazy things sometimes... > Sure, the person can blow their Essence, but they still have low >wills. Even if demons rarely act this way for fear of Dissonance (another >suggestion), it still irks me that a demon can just proactively corrupt >someone like that. It is your game, of course -- if you don't like it (and I can see your point; most of the fixes involve *too* much re-writing! ), then you can, and should change it. Tell the demons that humans subtract their total Forces from the demon's Will roll, maybe -- they're part of the Symphony, and demons aren't, so it's hard to influence them with supernatural abilities. (At least, hard to do without spending noisy Essence.) >Some of the Band Resonances aren't terribly bad, and the >Lilim Resonance is middlin' okay. It's just that there are Resonances (like, >say, Dark Desire) That's a 10-point Servitor Attunement... (Malphas' Shedim have something obnoxious, though.) >with which one can just torpedo a person, no matter what >kind of life they live. Heck, that one doesn't even use the person's own >darkest desires...it can be anything. Instant bestiality, say. Bleah. That >bugs. Though I'd rule as a GM that it probably wouldn't do anything very staining to the human's soul -- so even if they were twisted by DD, even if they trashed their life, they'd probably wind up reincarnated at worst, rather than Hellbound. So demons can trash people's lives, but they can't recruit more power-sources for Hell without getting the *human* to corrupt *himself* on that flat and easy road... >[...] For once, I'd like to see a mystery show on >television where the protagonist solved weird robberies, forgery, and other >non-lethal crimes. Thus, I'm sick of hurting innocents. Amen. > I could play a demon game where corruption is solely a function of >choice for people (even if they're talked into it). It's the simple ability >to instantly corrupt someone that gets me. Consider that it's not "insta-corruption" -- it's a nasty thing, yes, but a demon is actually somewhat wasting his time doing it! If he uses Dark Desire, he should be doing it on the behalf of some other human -- "I can make her want you. Just sign here. No, blood is optional." He's abusing the innocent he strikes with DD, but he's not corrupting her. He's corrupting the mortal who selfishly asked that another human's free will be subjugated for his benefit. > [As a quick aside, there's a cat in my apartment complex who wanders >into any open window or door and gives the place a thorough examination. >Kyrio of David? Then again, I don't know if David approves of his servants >hanging around to be scratched behind the ears...] [ Oh, I don't know. It's part of the Role. ] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:57:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine At 12:44 AM -0400 10/3/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Or do I have to get out the bullwhip and leather?<<< > > >That's supposed to be a threat? ;) Yes. No more griping that you're both taking each other too seriously, ON EITHER SIDE. (Because you both are.) Agree to disagree, BOTH YOU AND KESTSEL. Got that? No more poking each other's hot-buttons with sticks. If you have to do it, do it *OFF LIST*. >But seriously, you're right, this is all too silly. Some people get their >panties in a knot waaaaaay too easily. Yooooooou're not heeelllllllping.... Preach tolerance off the list. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 10:32:32 +1000 From: Jason Mulligan Subject: Re: Mark's vision of In Nomine (Re: IN>WW vs. In Nomine) MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > powerful tool, it can be misused and/or misunderstood. My worst fear is that > In Nomine (especially in Live-Action form) may trigger an overreaction that > makes what happened with GURPS Cyberpunk look like the actions of a benevolent > uncle. Yes. When I first heard of the game I wondered how long it would take for such a reaction in the US. It brings back vivid memories of the attacks on TSR in the old days just because there were demons in the game. I remember the great sham of a 60 minutes story about D&D and so forth. - -- Jason Mulligan "The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd!" - Edmund Blackadder ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:53:46 -0700 (PDT) From: nightgaunt@earthlink.net (Alexander Shearer) Subject: IN> A sympathetic demon In the fine tradition of answering my own question... This idea came to me this morning, as I walked to class. It's a demon one could possibly sympathize with -- and which I think I'd be comfortable playing. Here he is (with a story, even): The wind is brisk against his cheeks, inspiring a deep breath to bring the cold morning inside. Ibadim smiles and steps out onto the wet asphalt as the light changes. It only takes a few steps (seven, this morning) to cross the street. Ibadim keeps his smile as he crosses the pavement and moves into the park. He stops to take it all in. The trees are changing color, ready to lose their leaves for the winter. A bouquet of smells travels through the air. Water on the sidewalk and grass. Exhaust from the road mixed with oil in the gutter. The scent of cooked meat from a hot dog, along with a slight musty smell from the cart itself. Perfume, of a type no longer popular. Baby powder from a nearby carriage. Freshly cut grass, just yards away. Gel, in a young man’s hair. Deodorant. Traces of scented soaps and shampoos. A half-eaten apple. Rotting garbage. Stale sweat. Newsprint. Rotting wood. A wet dog. Ibadim blinks. A quick look at his watch tells him that he just lost about four minutes. Fortunately, he has nowhere to go. A quick walk puts him on the other side of the park, waiting. Nearby, a woman pays occasional attention to her daughter. The little one is maybe eight years old, and wandering towards the park’s edge. Her mother is reading a fashion magazine. Ibadim stands and moves to intercept the rambling child. He squats before her, grinning. "Going somewhere?" His mother has looked up. "I don’t think you’re supposed to leave the park." The little girl gives him a funny look as her mother rushes up behind her. Ibadim stands. "You have to watch out - they’re full of energy at this age." Ibadim’s smile changes, becoming a bit more sincere. "John, remember? We talked about Grisham a couple weeks ago." The woman relaxes and nods. "Right. Sorry, I don’t know where my mind was." Ibadim looks past her. The Soldier finally decided to show up. Time to go to work. "It’s okay. Everyone has off days." Ibadim, Balseraph of The War Corporeal Forces – 3 Strength 5, Agility 7 Ethereal Forces – 3 Intelligence 6, Precision 6 Celestial Forces – 4 Will 10, Perception 6 Vessel: Human/4 (Charisma +1) Role: Poet/3 (Status 2) Skills: Fighting/5, Knowledge (Poetry)/2, Ranged Weapon/1 Songs: Healing (Corporeal/4), Numinous Corpus (Claws/3, Wings/5) Attunements: Balseraph of The War Discord: Distraction/2 Ibadim is a Balseraph with a mission. He used to be a Seraph, serving The Sword. He was gung-ho, inspired by the beauty of God’s creation and ready to slay any Hellspawned creature that tried to spoil it. When he wasn’t fighting, Ibadim would spend hours simply feeling the Symphony play around him, envying humanity. What greater gift was there than this world? After a decade serving Laurence in the corporeal, Ibadim began to wonder. Surely, it was apparent that the corporeal realm, a place of great and varied sensations, of beauty in infinite and subtle forms, was a paradise already. How could the pristine yet standardized celestial realm compare? Why would God give his children a taste of truth, then confine them in Heaven forever. Why was he fighting to support that? It was almost as if everything just clicked perfectly into place. Ibadim abandoned his mission and wandered, searching for Truth, absolute and final. He couldn’t find it, not until one of Dominic’s Malakim nearly caught him. Rescued by the sheer, random luck of a particularly unsteady bit of scaffolding, Ibadim saw the truth. The world was paradise, and God taunted his children with it. Faced with such evil, Ibadim had no recourse but to dedicate himself to The War. So Ibadim Fell. Alexander Shearer nightgaunt@earthlink.net gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:05:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> On playing demons At 11:31 PM -0600 10/2/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: [...] >> Habbalah are also somewhat interesting -- they're so utterly lunatic. > Actually, I'm noticing that demons, on the whole, seem to have >broader ranges than the Angels...you can GET some odd takes on the Choirs, >but it takes a little more doing... You haven't seen the Seraph of Creation in service to Destiny who's been being an NPC. She's got a closet full of white...including latex. Rumor has it she wants the Word of Sexual Openess. She has Celtic Knot tablebooks. (Celtic Knots: Seraph porn.) >> Also, don't forget that humans can spend Essence (unconsciously, all >> at once) to resist something that they really don't want to do. If > If they still have any. Try pushing them into something they >really won't want but you don't care about so much first; they'll blow >their Essence resisting, because, well, they have to, and then you get >them to do what you want... I think that if they resist, you can't use your resonance on them for their CD hours... (Or Minutes, for Calabim; with Habbies, if you win with a higher CD, they either manifest the emotion themselves, or eat dissonance.) >> they make the resistance, the demon usually has trouble affecting >> them again soon. > "Soon" being a few minutes, generally... Hours, actually. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:26:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Malakim (fwd) At 8:14 AM -0500 10/3/97, Donald G Bixler wrote: >> Why, break out the whips, cuffs, and whipped cream of course. (Not to >> mention the chocolate pudding. Mmmm. Chocolate pudding with whipped >> cream.) > >What? No costumes? ;'} Hafta be something easy to clean. [] >Oops da Ogre, Soldier of Cthulhu "Hey Yves, read _this_ book!" (nononononono...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 97 18:03 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine >Seriously though, I think demons are best left as NPCs since they usually >espouse the least desireable qualities of humanity. In general, I agree -- worthwhile PC demons would probably have to be at a fairly "nice" extreme (for demons) to be tolerable, for me. > And to the supposed >Shedite who "perverts" a racist into committing random acts of needless >tolerance...you're a closet Kyriotate who doesn't want to admit to his >satanic friends that he would like to play an angel and sing show tunes [see >my earlier post on Frankie, the Archangel of Grease :-). I'd agree with that -- in a "standard" campaign, at least, I wouldn't allow a Shedite to get away with that sort of weaseling. Can you say, "dissonance"...? - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:16:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: faq/errata ( was: Re: IN> d666 patches) At 3:21 AM -0700 10/3/97, lugaid@seanet.com wrote: >On 1997-10-02 in_nomine-l@lists.io.com said to lugaid@seanet.com > >> a) where is the faq? > >Argh! I can't remember the exact URL. Look for it under > >http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine > >> b) where is the errata? > >See above. > >and what about those poor unfortunates (such as myself) who do not have >a functional web browser? i already tried to get these by anon ftp, but >they are not available there... Thou has but to ask me, and I will send you a copy. It's long, though. Want it? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:36:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> How I See Demons - Sidenote At 12:20 PM -0400 10/3/97, Emily K. Dresner wrote: >> Also note that the official In Nomine universe is, as far as I can tell, >> deliberately being written so as not to close off possibilities that >> individual GMs might want want to pursue. [...] >[...] I love GMing this game, it's a riot and a half. But I will drop >it like a hat and never play again if it becomes "You must use what we >have published, and BTW, go buy a new book so you are current with Canon." If I ever say that somebody can't do something *IN HER OWN GAME* because it's "not canon," smack me upside the virtual head. I may say, "No, I won't make a pronouncement on [x] that changes canon to what you want," but I hope I *never* say, "You can't do that. It's not right. Buy the book and see why." I'll tell the people *who care* what the canon is if they ask (I'd do that anyway; Archangel of Archives), but for you and Oops -- hey, you're playing the game backwards. All I can do is sit over here with Big Eyes and cheer occasionally... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:25:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Band Attunements At 8:52 AM -0400 10/3/97, Highway Star wrote: >I was going to ask a question about band attunements - you can buy 'em for >5 points if they're not your band, right? However, you can buy 'em from >another prince too, if they're for your band, right (i.e., an Impudite of >Andre buying the Impudite of Vapula attunement)? I saw that in Night Music >so I'm guessing it's legit. Is it still 5 points? I believe (and I'd better be right, or I'm going to make Big Eyes at my superior) that canon is: You can buy any other Band Attunement from your Prince for 5 points (provided it doesn't depend on a resonance you don't have). You can get a Servitor Attunement from another Prince with a good backstory and points and chocolate for the GM. You can't get a Band Attunement from another Prince, though. Period. The interconnections just aren't there. Servitors of Creation and Lilim are the only exceptions. (And yes, Lilim can only acquire the Lilim Band Attunement, unless they're bound to a Prince.) (If you saw something like that in Night Music, tell me where, and I'll go make Big Eyes at my superior.) However, if you want to institute your own house-rules, I would say that's right -- you have your Band, and you have your Prince's Word. Your connection with that Word allows you to support the other Band attunements that share that connection; your Band nature allows you to support attunements that share that nature. And yes, 5 points. [And the above is how Servitors of Creation and Lilim work.] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:45:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> On playing demons At 1:51 PM -0400 10/3/97, Greg wrote: >> >> >> > And that is the *huge* problem with picturing demons as anything other >> >than blacker than pitch. They are collaborating with a scheme whereby >> >humans are sent to Hell to be tortured for all eternity. >> >> Or Shal-Mari, to have their Essence swindled out of them in eternity's >> biggest Brothel/Casino/Gormet Resteraunt/etc. Or Perdition, to fixate >> on a bouncing ball for all eternity. Or Gehenna, to fight (which at >> least has a chance of *winning*, sort of)... If you want "kinder" >> fates for the Hellbound souls, have them corrupted by demons of Lust, >> Gluttony, Dark Humor and the Media. > >The exact degrees of the suffering may vary, but none of these fates are >very pleasant. Ah, but how do you know if it's any better for them in the upper Heavens? How do you know that it's not all one big Perdition there, with humans being sucked for Essence while they obsess over singing Seraphim? Maybe, over time, the last vestages of their personalities erode, and they get mined for Forces, a la Saminga. In Nomine doesn't say what happens to humans in the upper Heavens. Each GM, in their own individual game, says what happens. Adjust the colors, reverse them -- at least humans *exist* in Hell, and are mostly still self-aware creatures. Would you rather have your individual personality eradicated entirely, washed away in the Light, or would you rather hang around Shal-Mari and bus tables? (I know what *I'd* pick, if that were the choice...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 19:22:25 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> How I See Demons >>>If all you have is a bunch of powerful beings manuvering for control of the earth with a clear-cut opposition that is different, it would be too similar to certain WW situations, which they don't want. I think that this would even be your personal position, right Mr. Edelstein?<<< Pretty much. I basically disagree with the rest of your position, though. I think demons are working for the cause of Evil, even if not every demon is evil, and angels are working for the cause of Good, even if not every angel is good. It's the moral struggles this engenders that make In Nomine interesting (that and the kick-ass Malakim....oops, sorry, my AD&D past sometimes catches up with me...) >>>(I need to figure out some way to indicate which David I'm referring to without sounding formal...)<<< I'll answer to "Your Awesome Superiorness", with as many other honorifics added on as you feel appropriate. Or David. Or even "Mr. Edelstein" (though that makes me feel like I'm teaching high school again...) - -David ("Your Royal Perversity?" "Your Most Sarcastic Majesty?" Hmm.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 97 19:28 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Short Jean Thoughts >"Nuke Hell" was using "nuke" in the colloquial sense of "whup ass". If >Jean is massively ahead of Vapula in Technology, the edge involved should >make demons pretty ineffective. I understood it that way, but used an obvious example. >"Dodgy Explanations" includes "Can't blow up hell because we need them/it >would destroy us" (cool, but non-canon, and makes Armageddon boring), >"Such a thing is simply impossible to build" (You still have a massive >edge), "Control of the Symphony is stronger than technology" (It isn't >really under current rules.), "Can't use Hi-Tech cuz it messes up >the Symphony," etc. I can think up dozens of reasons why Jean can't nuke >Hell, but none are as campaign friendly, IMO, as "Jean and Vapula are about >the same TL." There is also the issue that Jean doesn't like Michael -- I've been interpreting this in the light of Jean's choir as meaning that Jean is partly in the "peace" camp, or at least in the "wait and see" camp, politically. For one thing, there are a lot of demons who might be Redeemed if things aren't simply finished off in a bloody battle. And exactly why *did* God permit all this Hell stuff in the first place? Nuking it might not really be part of the Plan.... So I see Jean as somewhat obstructionist in providing "killer tech" to the war faction. Maybe he believes in the Prime Directive.... >IN relies somewhat on some sort of Balance of Power. If you give the >Angels a massive edge in technology, you weaken that. Agreed. >I prefer the paradigm "Celestial Tech is only a little better than >Mundane tech (+1TL at most) except where magic (Songs, etc.) are >involved. (Living) Human reasearchers tend to make the really cool >breakthroughs to boot. This re-enforces the "Humans are creative" idea >while simultaneously preventing too much sci-fi stuff from the Jean/Vap >crowd. I'm still considering this issue for my own games, and haven't decided. Partly, it's simply hard to figure out what he *ought* to have, if he's really way out in front. He also doesn't want humans getting hold of anything too weird -- sticking to stuff near human TL helps minimize that risk. Jean may *know* how to make such stuff, but doesn't give it out. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 20:02:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> How I See Demons At 7:22 PM -0400 10/3/97, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>(I need to figure out some way to indicate which David I'm referring to >without sounding formal...)<<< > >I'll answer to "Your Awesome Superiorness", with as many other honorifics >added on as you feel appropriate. Or David. Or even "Mr. Edelstein" (though >that makes me feel like I'm teaching high school again...) > >-David ("Your Royal Perversity?" "Your Most Sarcastic Majesty?" Hmm.) "Prince David" will probably make it clear enough.... (What about just "Edelstein"? Maybe it's from some of my Fencing teachers calling me "McCoy"...) (And it's quite true that I respond to "Archangel"...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 20:07:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Short Jean Thoughts At 7:28 PM -0400 10/3/97, Walter Milliken wrote: [...] >>I prefer the paradigm "Celestial Tech is only a little better than >>Mundane tech (+1TL at most) except where magic (Songs, etc.) are >>involved. (Living) Human reasearchers tend to make the really cool >>breakthroughs to boot. This re-enforces the "Humans are creative" idea >>while simultaneously preventing too much sci-fi stuff from the Jean/Vap >>crowd. [...] >He also doesn't want humans getting hold of anything too weird -- >sticking to stuff near human TL helps minimize that risk. Jean may >*know* how to make such stuff, but doesn't give it out. He is an Elohite, after all, and if he considers all factors and thinks that letting Celestial Ultra-Tech loose will only play further into Vapula's hands... Short term benefits might not outweigh the long term problems. (And he keeps having to *explain* this to that hothead Seraph Michael...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 19:56:13 -0400 (EDT) From: CeIestiaI7@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf's Games vs. In Nomine In a message dated 97-10-03 02:24:27 EDT, you write: > On the other hand, I'm not going to promise > I'll never again say an unkind word about the World of Darkness. If > everyone would just grow up and chill out, this would blow over. > > -David David, tell us how you really *feel.* 0:-) Scott -- Mercurian Friend of Flowers, Angel of Chilling Out ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 19:24:00 GMT From: marcus.evenstar@greymatter.com (Marcus Evenstar) Subject: IN> [fluff] WW vs. IN Archangel Beth's message of 02OCT97 ended with: AB> ...Or do I have to get out the bullwhip and leather? GIF! GIF! ================================================================== | "Do not disrupt my carefully controlled pattern of hype or | | YOU WILL BE PUT IN A BOX WITH BILL GATES AND SHAKEN." | | - James "Kibo" Parry (kibo@world.std.com) | - ------------------------------------------------------------------ | marcus dot evenstar at greymatter dot com | ================================================================== * RM 1.3 02440 * Honey, get the whips and chains, we've got company! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 20:21:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> On playing demons > >You haven't seen the Seraph of Creation in service to Destiny >who's been being an NPC. She's got a closet full of white...including >latex. Rumor has it she wants the Word of Sexual Openess. >She has Celtic Knot tablebooks. (Celtic Knots: Seraph porn.) But...no. I'm not going to ask.. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 20:46:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [fluff] WW vs. IN At 7:24 PM +0000 10/3/97, Marcus Evenstar wrote: >Archangel Beth's message of 02OCT97 ended with: > >AB> ...Or do I have to get out the bullwhip and leather? > > > >GIF! GIF! > > So, what's it worth to y'all for such a thing to appear on, say, the INC? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 00:27:11 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Band Attunements On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:25:39 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >I believe (and I'd better be right, or I'm going to make >Big Eyes at my superior) that canon is: You can buy any other Band >Attunement from your Prince for 5 points (provided it doesn't >depend on a resonance you don't have). You can get a Servitor >Attunement from another Prince with a good backstory and points >and chocolate for the GM. The FAQ recommends 15 points. Or did so before it unlinked. :) >You can't get a Band Attunement from another Prince, though. Period. >The interconnections just aren't there. Servitors of Creation and >Lilim are the only exceptions. (And yes, Lilim can only acquire >the Lilim Band Attunement, unless they're bound to a Prince.) Does this apply to Choirs, too? Choir and Band Attunements are often very powerful, especially for your own C/B, and very useful, so I'd want them to be expensive--maybe 20 points--and they'd naturally require GM permission and roleplaying. But I'd hate to see it outlawed. And what about the C/B Attunement of your small-s superior? What if your superior really needs you to have that Attunement for your mission and your Superior doesn't object? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:15:29 -0400 (EDT) From: CeIestiaI7@aol.com Subject: [LONG FLUFF] Prince of a guy (was IN> How I See Demons) In a message dated 97-10-03 11:12:02 EDT, you write: > David, still a Prince of a guy > Oh great. So men are the diabolicals? So who praytell is the Archangel of Babes? Hmmmmm....Inspiration!! ===============================================%< CUT HERE===== David, Prince of Guys Once the original humans were banished from Eden, they began to act in distinctly different ways. As soon as it became evident that these differences ran along the gender line, a Djinn of Factions seized an opportunity that would very soon become his word... DISSONANCE It is against the nature of the servitors of Guys to lift a finger to help around the house. Heaven forbid they even offer to make to the bed once in awhile! Jeez...just just ONCE maybe they could put the lid down?!? And on their anniversary, maybe some flowers or a night out? And do they have to spend every waking moment on front of the damned TV or out with their shiftless idiot friends?!?! Yes. They do. BAND ATTUNEMENTS Guys' demons are all overly macho, but each band encourages specific, stereotypical "guy" behavior. Balseraphs The best liars in Hell practically flock to serve Dave. It is with him that they may practice their Art. Balseraphs of Guys are dogs. Any lie they tell a woman, no matter how flawed and illogical will always pass muster on inspection. Djinn It is said that Guys have only one thing on their mind. True. Djinn of Guys are no exception. In fact they fixate exclusively one one thing. It is that thing which consumes them, and dictates (no pun) their every action. Some may see it as a limitation, but the djinn are quite proud of their singular attunements. Calabim This band represents the Tim Taylors of the world. They love to fix things. Their philosophy is: If it ain't broke, I can still make it BETTER! Inevitably they will break whatever they try to fix, but only because on the inferior quality of the (pick one) [Tools, materials, help, environment, support his girlfriend/wife gives him]. Habbalah Their poor infernal minds deluded, they believe themselves to be angels. In fact, the Habbalh of Guys belive that they are, in fact, God's Gift to Women. Lilim There are exactly ZERO lilim of Guys. The servitors of Guys, however, are in centuries of debt to the Lilim of Andre, Haagenti, and Nybbas. Shedim The Corruptors of Guys are pitied by all other bands of Guys. They represent the lowest that Guys can possibly go. They urge their host to lower and more base actions every day. First it may be an inappropriate passing of wind. Next, they may forget their anniversary. Finally these lowlifes will dog their ponies into adulterous affairs. Sheesh. The shedim of Guys need not actually possess a guy or be in the vicintiy for their resonance to work. Heck, they don't even have to consciously will it! Impudites For better or worse (as is often the case) everyone loves these demons of Guys. As horrible as their actions may be, as empty as their promises are, and as hollow, selfish, and shallow...Oooh. Are those flowers?? You shouldn't have! SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Trivial Pursuit One thing. Football, baseball, boats, cameras, computers, roleplaying games. Give a guy a hobby and he is instantly an expert. David's demons are the Foremost Authority in any one area. As the attunement's name implies, the area is usually trivial. It will never put dinner on the table or impress one's mother-in-law. Pull My Finger Stunned for rounds = Corporeal Forces x Essence spent. Need we say more? DISTINCTIONS The Monday Knight of Quarterbacks Servitors with this distinction can make judgements better than any so called "authority figure" could, even if the demon had not physically been right there, in the middle of the action. Captain of the Tidy Bowl Demons of this rank can comandeer the use of a room by stating, "This is My house, and I can use this room whenever I like!" They always leave the room in a fouler condition then when they found it. This ability extend to rooms outside of their own property. Baron of Babes With a simple gesture (a snap, a wink, or puppy-dog eyes), the demon can make all the single women in a room flock to his side. Married women may resist with a Will roll. It doesn't matter though, cause the demon knows that married or not, they still want him. RELATIONS Allied: Haagenti Associated: Andrealphus, Kobal, Nybbas Hostile: Asmodeus, Kronos Enemy: No one BASIC RITES o Eat a bag of pork rinds and down a six pack of domestic beer (Once per sporting event). o Urinate on all the seats of all the women's restrooms in a building. (+2 Essence if at a large event with few toilets) o Belch or break wind in a quiet room with 30 or more people, with your S.O. present. CHANCE OF INVOCATION: 2 INVOCATION MODIFIERS +1 A six pack +2 A dirty magazine +3 Get out of going out with your girlfriend/wife so you can go out with your friends. +4 If he can bring along a couple of *his* friends +5 Monday night, football season, and *you* have a big screen TV. +6 Make a date with a woman who would never normally go out with you. +10 ...Score with her. ===============================================%< CUT HERE===== Scott -- Mercurian of Flowers, Angel of Chilling Out. Someone else can do the Archangel of Babes... 0:-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:24:57 -0400 (EDT) From: CeIestiaI7@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> New Product Idea In a message dated 97-10-03 21:10:48 EDT, you write: > > Hmm. Or angelic/demonic dice in a suitably anachronistic container? How about a suitably antichrist container? Scott -- Mercurian of Flowers, Angel of Chilling Out. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:33:27 -0400 (EDT) From: CeIestiaI7@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> [fluff] WW vs. IN In a message dated 97-10-03 20:58:16 EDT, you write: > So, what's it worth to y'all for such a thing to appear on, say, > the INC? her cheek> How about just a JPEG of Mapplethorpe's (sp) "Bullwhip" It denies my NEA grant just thinking about it!! (for those not privledged to have seen the photo...think leather whips visiting the last of the gas giants in our solar system). However, the picture is a good example of how a particular Numinous Corpus might look. Glad he finally gets to use his Fine Arts degree for something, Scott -- Mercurian of Flowers, Angel of Chilling Out. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:50:15 -0400 (EDT) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> [fluff] WW vs. IN "How about just a JPEG of Mapplethorpe's (sp) "Bullwhip" It denies my NEA grant just thinking about it!!" Oooh. Only if we get to feature that Reliquarium by Andres Serrano! }:::) yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 21:46:31 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> On playing demons Greg wrote: [snip] > Now if you want a *third* > faction that rebels against God on the grounds that he is mean but doesn't > serve Hell either on the grounds that *Hell* is mean too, *that* would be > an interesting game! And hey, when it says that a third of the heavenly host rebelled and took off to Hell, it doesn't say that two-thirds *remained* in Heaven. Quite possibly, another third became neutral, and the remaining angels in Heaven were no longer powerful enough to destroy the demons (an advantage of 2 to 1 and you wipe the floor with them; even odds, and you'd probably reconsider). So you'd end up with this balance of power: Hell: Demons, refuse to accept the pre-eminence of humans Heaven: Angels, determined to wipe out demons Earth: Angels, don't care about the War, carry on helping humans and serving God's grand plan So who's *really* the good guys? Sam - -- There are *my* opinions, dammit, and let no-one say otherwise. Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati Q. What is black and white and red all over? A. Two nuns in a chainsaw fight. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 19:13:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: [LONG FLUFF] Prince of a guy (was IN> How I See Demons) > David, Prince of Guys This was very amusing. I laughed. The only objection I have: would Babes really be a Word of an Archangel? I've seen much evidence of diabolical behavoir on their part.... - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:28:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> On playing demons > I dunno. After an eternity of it, it may be worse, especially if you *know* > you're being used. That's why I'm gonna go hang out with Eris after I croak. ;'} > Speaking of which, am I the only one out there who understands how truely > *evil* Andre's dissonace conditions are? I mean, anyone ever *been* in a > relationship like that? No and yes, in that order. That's why under "The Trouble with Andre", I stated that I didn't like Andre. I can't imagine enjoying playing a servant of Andre as a PC unless the setting somehow allowed me to avoid interacting with humans. The dissonance condition is _nasty_! As a matter of fact, when the fallen Grigori idea was put to the list, I immediately thought that that would explain Andre quite well, since they can't get close to humans, either. > -Loki Oops da Ogre, of course Pachadim aren't any better... mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #383 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.