From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Wed Oct 8 23:21:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21025 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:21:35 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id XAA28374 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:04:09 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:04:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199710090404.XAA28374@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #395 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, October 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 395 In this digest: Re: IN> In: Fate/Destiny IN> backwards Re: IN> Band Attunements IN> Purity test. Re: IN> What do we mean when we say "evil"? IN> St. Bridget/Bride in In Nomine (LONG) Re: IN> [FICTION] Chess Game Re: IN> (Fwd) A Mercurians Logo Re: IN> Band Attunements Re: IN> On playing demons IN> redneck@txdirect.net IN> Re: Archangel Beth pictures... IN> Re: Andre's Vessels Re: IN> redneck@txdirect.net Re: IN> backwards Re: IN> My theory on Revelations. Re: IN> On Playing Evil Re: IN> In: Fate/Destiny Re: IN> Purgatory Re: IN> What do we mean when we say "evil"? Re: IN> [FICTION] Chess Game Re: IN> backwards Re: IN> backwards Re: IN> backwards IN> Tethers to Janus or Valefor Re: IN> What do we mean when we say "evil"? Re: IN> backwards Re: IN> On Playing Evil Re: IN> backwards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:42:05 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In: Fate/Destiny At 12:07 AM -0600 10/8/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: [...] > Though, since it's come up, I had an idea/plot seed that popped >into my head the other night... > It's based on the premise that Fate/Destiny combinations KEEP >COMING UP until they're fulfilled. That is, when someone dies who hasn't >managed that critical `choice', and their Forces recycle into the >Symphony...the Fate and Destiny stay attached to those Forces, and when >they're reborn, that person has basically the same potentials. Not >knowingly, as in the case of a Saint, obviously--it's not the PERSON >recycling, just the F/D. Aw, make us reincarnation-belivers happy -- let it be the person... (Though of course the memories aren't terribly accessible.) Heh. A Cherub checks attunements... "Hey, that one's *BACK*?!" (Would dissonance for allowing the human's death previously then vanish, if not otherwise taken care of? Hmmm... Nah, it's "any harm.") [That's not canon, BTW -- but a GM might want to do it for the neatness value.] And the rest of the clipped idea is cooool. > We've also been thinking about having Fate and Destiny as traits a >human can purchase, similar to Roles...particularly given that humans in >contact with Celestials are more likely to have stronger ones, I think. >Either, of course, would actually cost points, regardless of which side >you're on now..(So a Soldier of God with a Destiny/4 and a Fate/6 would >have to pay for the Fate just as a Soldier of Hell would...after all, it's >certainly not without its advantages, like all those Servitors of Kronos >trying to get buddy-buddy...) > I'm thinking there should be side effects, >too, like your F/D level can add somehow to rolls that the GM considers >likely to lead towards it, or somesuch, but...this only just seriously >occurred to me about 15 minutes ago, so the mechanics still need tweaking. It looks interesting, yes. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 15:58:03 -0400 From: "Chuck Ryan" Subject: IN> backwards So what do you hear when you play it backwards? I bet it's cool stuff, like, "Eat Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream" or "The Gnomes of Zurich have taken over the supply of Legos" or "The Government distributes alien technology to cocaine dealers in San Francisco which are being supported by the CIA." Me, I get stuff like, "Be good" and "Say your prayers". Spooky that. It frightens me deeply. Unfortunatly anything I play long enough turns into the best of queen though if run backwards through a computer and after removing the backgroung music it sais what I believe to be there is no In Nomine there is only Zool! CHUCK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 20:15:14 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Band Attunements On Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:32:10 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>And what about the C/B Attunement of your small-s superior? > >Non-Archangels/Princes do not have C/B/S Attunements, in canon. >They have Rites, but not Attunements or Distinctions. True, but I was thinking of a small-s superior who is also a Superior (which I've seen somewhere in the IN canon, I know), for example, a Malikite of Gabriel in service to Yves. Could Yves grant her the Malakim of Yves choir attunement, canonically? Distinguishing demonic from angelic distubances might be crucial to the work Yves needs her for, yet she might be equally useless without remaining a servitor of Gabriel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 22:42:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: IN> Purity test. * I got in a disscusion with a friend the other night about the purity test. He said he had never seen it, and I was telling him about it. He made a coment of "WOW, that would make a great checklist of kinky stuff." This sparked an idea in my head, Do you think that demons use it as a qualification exam? The 1,000 point versin actualy says "Perverts Annonymous Qualification Exam" on it. This could explain a lot of things. It is actualy a cooperative effert of Nybass, and Andre, to currupt poor "Innocent" college students. Whay do others think? Shadowcat P.S. for those who don't know what the P.T. is I can see about either emailing it to you, or giving you a URL where it can be found. All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 15:47:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> What do we mean when we say "evil"? People have been distinguishing "evil" and "selfish" a lot, recently. This follows Derek's usage in the IN book, where he consistently characterizes demons as "selfish.' The impression I got, however, was that he was trying to give more concrete detail to the difference between the angels and the demons, to describe that ethical good and evil are, not to characterize them in some way other than good and evil. In Christian ethics, at least, and I think in Jewish as well, and maybe Moslem, the essential disorder that produces moral evil is selfishness. Putting it the other way around, St. Augustine defined good as "ordinate love," proportionate love. That's why the Golden Rule is "love your neighbor as yourself and God above all." Cruelty is evil, yes, but why are people cruel? Either because they care for their own sadistic kick more than your wellbeing or because they are willing to sacrifice your wellbeing as a means to their ends. Think Dominic is a cruel angel? Then you are saying that he is willing to sacrifice the wellbeing of others to the glory of his Word or to his own estimate of his own moral stature. A similar anaylsis could be made for other vices that are not, on the surface, the same as selfishness. Cowardice, for instance. Earl W. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:10:47 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: IN> St. Bridget/Bride in In Nomine (LONG) After reading The Marches, my wife turned to me and asked, "So, what do we do about St. Bride?" This has started a series of thought mulishly rolling through my head, and wound up with this: St. Bridget of Ireland, Ethereal Servitor of Flowers When Christianity was first on the rise, the Ethereal powers/gods were divided among themselves. Some wanted to ignore the celestials who were moving into their turf, some wanted to fight (Thor's challenging Jesus to a wrestling match was only the most obvious of this faction's efforts), and a bare handful wanted to send overtures of peace. Of the 'peace faction,' perhaps the most powerful and influential was the Celtic Mother-Goddess Bride (or Bridget). She alone went to the celestial realm via Blandine's tower and asked to join God's side. This led to a furor in Heaven. When the dust settled, Bride was ensconced as one of Novalis' chief assistants, and had wangled a stint with the Role of Bridget, Abbess of Whitby. As Abbess, she did a great deal of good for both Christians and those Pagans who were willing to live peacably with this new religion. When she "died," she enforced the syncretism of the Celtic Church by encouraging several of the rituals to her as goddess to continue as rituals to her as saint. All was well with her world. Then Uriel, Archangel of Purity, stepped in. His reasoning, as his Word, was simple and direct. If *one* of the Ethereals had converted, *all* of them could. Thus began the campaign of "purification." As the moderate Ethereals were pushed by the Angels of Purity, one by one, they decided they couldn't go along with the conversion, and were either killed or driven into the Far Marches. The rest of the story is well known. On Earth, the Church of Rome gradually began wresting control from the Celtic Church in the British Isles, and Bride only remained as a minor saint. When the Domini Canes of the Inquisition came after her children, she wept helplessly, screaming her protests at Dominic, who merely cocked one set of eyebrows at her, and sent one of his more powerful triads to investigate her. Fortunately, they were stopped by the original contract between Bride and the Seraphim Council, which recognized her right to her own worshipers. Today, Bride is on the rise. Her maneuvering to reintroduce the idea of Celtic Christianity to the world has met with success in recent years, as she has found allies in both Jordi and Novalis. Her own children among humanity, now known as Wiccans, are also strengthening her position with their increased numbers and visibility. Bride's long-term goal is singular: Destroy Dominic and his faction in Heaven. She blames him directly for the Earthly Inquisition and the destruction of her brother and sister Ethereals. If not for Dominic, she reasons, Uriel would never have gotten as far as he did. But for now, she waits... (sorry, I haven't figured out Bride's Stats yet...) Input requested! Mark(Who hopes that this may become a plot thread in his campaign...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 22:50:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> [FICTION] Chess Game On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 10:22 PM -0500 10/7/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > [...] > >Andre is the one relatively peaceful Demon Prince who nobody, but NOBODY, in > >Heaven really wants to be around. > > > >(Check that: I just had a flash image of Dominique in studded leather > >lashing Andrea with a cat o' nine tails. Sometimes I wonder if my Muse > >really -is- a Reliever of Eli...) > > Who says Relievers of Eli don't have an obnoxious sense of humor? > (Um. We didn't really have a G-rating on this list, did we? Um.) Just do to the subject of the game i think we get a PG-13 at the least, though a NC-17 at worst. Anything above THAT level should probably be done through private e-mail. Cat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:49:18 -0400 From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> (Fwd) A Mercurians Logo On Oct 8, 2:18pm, Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> (Fwd) A Mercurians Logo > > Beeeeeeeth! Will you please stop that? I try to answer my > >email and you keep distracting me with all these images... ;) > > No offense, but I was the one who came up with that image. I appreciate the > flattery, tho -- does this mean you owe *me* a Geas for putting the idea in > your head? Only if you _look_ like Beth. It's just not the same otherwise. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:03:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Band Attunements At 8:15 PM +0000 10/8/97, Walt Mazur wrote: >On Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:32:10 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy >wrote: > >>>And what about the C/B Attunement of your small-s superior? >> >>Non-Archangels/Princes do not have C/B/S Attunements, in canon. >>They have Rites, but not Attunements or Distinctions. > >True, but I was thinking of a small-s superior who is also a Superior >(which I've seen somewhere in the IN canon, I know), Ah, an "in service to" thing. Okay. >for example, a >Malikite of Gabriel in service to Yves. Could Yves grant her the Malakim of >Yves choir attunement, canonically? I think it's been said that generally, not. However, Druiel has a Choir Attunement from Laurence (who he's in service to), so there's at least precident for loaners, at a minimum. Superiors break the rules when they want to. If Yves wants to spend the extra time and effort to give that attunement without breaking the previous bonds ["I can *too* figure out the gameworld explanations!"] then he will do so. But it probably shouldn't be a "just points" thing; the Game Master has to believe that it's going to enhance the campaign when it happens. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:56:34 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> On playing demons >At 11:35 AM -0400 10/8/97, Gregory Littmann wrote: > >And I think you over-estimate some people's desire to remain >self-aware individuals. Eternity is a long time, and even in In >Nomine Hell, might not be *really* eternity. A damned soul could >get traded to a kinder Prince, or wait for the final War (and hope >that Heaven wins!)... > Thanks, Beth, you just gave me a story seed. }:-{D In the IN universe, is it really -possible- to have a final victory? ** ** ** Two Balseraphs tossed the battered, tattered Celestial form of the oldest being in the Universe to the ground at Lucifer's feet. It could be said that Yves was one of the lucky ones. Novalis, who until the last had worked towards coexistence, now hung on a thousand fishhooks in Abbadon, a plaything for Saminga's mad followers. Lawrence and Michael had fallen, back to back, fighting off hundreds of Calabim and Djinn, but not before taking Baal and Asmodeus with them. Kobal, who had gone Bright at the last moment, had been devoured by his 'brother' Haagenti, the last laughter in Hell vanishing into Gluttony's maw. David lay in Tartarus' depths, stripped of most of his Forces, slowly driven mad by the experiments Vapula had planned for Jean, but could never employ- the Archangel of Lightning had gone out in a literal blaze of glory. Marc and Dominic lay imprisoned in the deepest dungeons of Hades, guarded by the few remaining servitors of the Game, awaiting their dread lord Lucifer's wishes. A few of Heaven's champions still remained at large, of course, but few had any real hope of survival. Gabriel, after slaying Belial in a savage, no-holds-barred battle, now hid in the depths of the battle-scarred Earth, licking her wounds, weakened almost to the point of final dissolution. Blandine and Beleth had met in the heart of the Marches; their Towers collapsed, and neither had been seen since. Eli had not even appeared at the Last Battle, and no trace of him could be found anywhere; likewise Jordi, whose servitors had fought most ferociously of all Heaven's hosts, had vanished into the burning wilderness of the Earth. Of Janus, and for that matter Valefor, there was no sign at all. Lucifer smiled at the defeated Archangel of Destiny, standing from his granite throne and walking over to stand over the kneeling angel. "Good afternoon, Yves, old friend," Lucifer said. "I trust your accomodations were comfortable enough." Yves said nothing, looking into the First Balseraph's eyes with a saddened expression. "So," Lucifer continued when it became painfully obvious there would be no answer, "today, on the Earth, marks the first full day of my reign as Supreme Being. Our Creator has, as I suspected, abandoned his creation to the strong. His forces, in the end, were weak, and mine were strong. He has forsaken the Earth, and the Hells, and the Marches, and now even the Heavens. And now it is all mine." "Oh, really?" Yves said, a hint of his gentle, instructing tones returning to the croaking voice he had left. "What do you intend to do with it?" "Why, rule, of course!" Lucifer smiled. "I shall be the Supreme Being! All the humans and Celestials and Etherials shall bend knee to me, or be destroyed!" Yves' smile grew somewhat. "Very well. My knees, as you can see," he said wryly, "are quite bent. Let us say, then, that all the other beings in the Universe agreed to obey you. What would you order?" Lucifer opened his mouth, but before he spoke, Yves added, "-Besides- to worship you." Lucifer glared at the First Soul for a moment before considering the question. After a long, quiet pause, he admitted, "I haven't considered it before... I suppose I will rule on Earth as I have in Hell." "But what do you really rule?" Yves smiled. "Half of your chief servitors are dead. Saminga is walking the Earth even as we speak, killing your servants and destroying their souls, taking their Forces to himself. Very little of the Earth is even capable of supporting life anymore- if not for Lilith's efforts, all of Humanity would be extinct, their Souls either here or beyond your reach." Lucifer turned to a demon standing beside him. "Go to Saminga and inform him I wish to speak with him. Here." The demon paled somewhat and sputtered, "b-b-But my Lord, what if he chooses not to answer?" Lucifer shrugged. "Well, you'd better hope he does." Yves' smile grew wider. "That brings up another point, Lucifer. For the moment, your enemies are destroyed or scattered. But how long will your minions remain loyal to you?" Lucifer blinked. "They will remain loyal or be destroyed!" Yves shrugged. "I believe several on our side had the same attitude about you and your servants. Look where it got us." Lucifer's dark, humanoid appearance fled from him, and for a moment the dark chasm trembled at the presence of Light, Lucifer in his naked, glorious Celestial form, wings spread across the arch of the cavern, six glowing red eyes blazing down from his feathered serpentine head. NO ONE WOULD DARE DEFY ME! I, THE LIGHTBRINGER, THE ONE AND ONLY SUPREME BEING!!! Yves stood, staring unafraid into the Light, smiling wider. "Won't they? Saminga has never been loyal to you- you know this full well. How much longer will Lilith even pay lip service to you, now that freedom is impossible? Where are Valefor, or Nybbas, or Andreaphalus? They did not fight for you on the plain of Meggido." I AM VICTORIOUS! Lucifer raged. I AM GLORY! I AM POWER! I -RULE-, OLD MAN! "Lucifer, Lucifer, Lucifer," Yves shook his head reproachfully, the ancient Celestial standing unafraid while the demons around the room cowered in fear. "The War is not over. It -cannot- end, not as we knew it. Free will cannot be denied. No matter how you struggle, you cannot break away from God's plan. You, and I, and the War, are bound to it. And even now, in the hour of your victory, you have no idea of what to do with it. "As I speak to you, Lucifer, I flow with the Symphony. Even now, it rewrites itself to include the cacophany you have crafted in Hell. Its instruments are keying up for a new movement, and I see Eli and Lilith in confederacy, Nybbas and Janus and Gabriel arising to oppose you, Andreaphalus and Novalis united in opposition to the forces of destruction. "And here, in Hell, Kronos and Vapula and Haagenti remain faithful, Malphas loyal to himself alone, Saminga loyal only to destruction. Valefor I cannot see, and you...." WHAT OF ME, YVES? Lucifer's eyes flamed to life as his giant head drew to within inches of Yves' face. WHAT DO YOU SEE OF ME? Yves sighed. "I see either a glorious destiny or a disastrous fate, Lightbringer. Either you turn your back on this place, on all you have built and wrought, and accept a place as the least of the new angels, and strive to build a new Heaven and Hell and Earth, and protect the remnant of God's creation." AND IF I CHOOSE NOT TO REPENT? Yves sighed. "Then you will rule, alone, with no Heaven, no Hell, no Marches, no demons or angels. No humans left to worship you, no servants to obey you, no opponents to challenge you- all destroyed, one by one, by your might. "You will be Lightbringer to a new world, Lucifer, or else the light of destruction will shine over us all. "This, my dear old friend," Yves smiled sadly, "this is what it means to be a Supreme Being. The Universe rests in your hands. Do with it as you will. I will say no more." Lucifer's gaze bore through the worn, translucent form before him, and his tail curled back, ready to strike Yves down where he stood... ... and he vanished, replaced by his humanoid form, looking confused and very, very aggrieved. "I must think," he said at last. "Guards, take Yves back to his cell. Do not allow any harm to come to him, but also do not allow him to speak to anyone. The rest of you...." He returned to his throne, hands gripping the armrests as he slumped wearily back into the chair. "Leave me. I will not be disturbed by anyone. I must think." Yves's smile vanished, replaced by a look of pity for the old Adversary, holding out his arms for the two Balseraphs to take. Behind the three of them, the retinue of Hell followed, leaving Lucifer to his own, unique, internal torment. And in the throne, the ancient Serpent squirmed, trying to find some way to wriggle from the trap he had set for himself. --- Dark Victory, a story of After the Apocalypse Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "Don't tell me, I'm keen to http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | guess... you only know how c/o White Lightning Productions | to play fighting games, right?" http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | --- Baal, playing Super Puzzle Webmaster for Antarctic Press | Fighter Turbo with Michael http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:03:47 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> redneck@txdirect.net Again, can I put this on the INC? It's gooood. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:57:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "Austin G. Loomis" Subject: IN> Re: Archangel Beth pictures... Thanks, Beth. Nice picks. I think that was about a Need/3 for me. (I'm already working on the return favor. You'll see...) Austin G. "He said mysteriously" Loomis, MiSTie #84029 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:56:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "Austin G. Loomis" Subject: IN> Re: Andre's Vessels To Martin Leslie Leuschen: Thanks for listing all Andre's vessels, but I have to point out, as *the* unregistered SubGenius, that you forgot the Prairie Squid vessel. Austin G. "Hmmm...SubGenius for In Nomine" Loomis, MiSTie #84029 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 18:38:15 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> redneck@txdirect.net >Again, can I put this on the INC? It's gooood. > Yeah, sure... although now that I sit down and think of it, there's so much - -potential- in this. }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "Don't tell me, I'm keen to http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | guess... you only know how c/o White Lightning Productions | to play fighting games, right?" http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | --- Baal, playing Super Puzzle Webmaster for Antarctic Press | Fighter Turbo with Michael http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:12:36 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> backwards > >Out of curiousity, how many other people play (or want to play) IN > >backwards? So far, we have three (Oops, Em, and me). > > If someone would explain what is meant by 'backwards' in this > case, I'd be glad to give it a try. Take the basic assumptions, and reverse them. God is bad, Hell is good, the Ethereals are older than both, and Haggenati flosses. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "This is my town. I know where the ketchup is." - Dan Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:12:36 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> My theory on Revelations. > > * Metaverse is down, while it gets the GURPS system put in. It > > should be back by the end of October - see http:\\www.metaverse.com > > Yay! > > You want to _really_ confuse someone? Give them a URL > that looks right but has backslashes instead of slashes. =) Fnord. > The second most confusing thing is to give _almost_ > the proper URL! > > http://www.metaverse.net Fnor...okay, so I screwed up. Geeze... > (Now, back to regularly scheduled armageddon...) 5...4... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. - George Carlin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:12:36 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> On Playing Evil > >> Actually, I from a first glance, I just think you have > >> poor taste in music. :) > > > >Before you knock it entirely, realize that I also listen to Doors, > >Dave Matthews Band, Collective Soul, and Sheryl Crow. But most > >people don't notice that from snap judgements. > > Actually...hate to admit this, but you're just reenforcing > my humorous remark. Mind you, I have imperfect taste in music by > several people's standards, so there you go. Time to go have an IN > game with Vena Cava as the sole soundtrack...:) None of that is stuff I'd play IN to (except maybe as music in a bar). What's Vena Cava (excuse the heathen...). > (Ah...memories of the Robotech game at a con long ago > where our mission commander decided to enslave the local > population we were liberating. Joy.) There is one bonus to playing in a game with these people - you have an opponent who isn't likely to pull punches like a GM will. And no matter who wins, you're out of the situation you didn't like... > >Prodigy is good if you are especially into rhythm, and aren't > >listening for a specific message to any of the songs. > > Hmmm. I don't usually listen to lyrics - and I still don't > like Prodigy. I think I'd actually like them more if I hadn't seen > the video for Firestarter. Oh well. Thankfully, I don't own my own > Nybbas box, so MTV is kept far away (thus saving me from the foul > influence of the Demon of Jump-Cuts and his companion, the Demon of > Shaky Cameras). Haven't seen the Firestarter video, though I liked Breathe video was good, if a bit disturbing. It had nothing on Perfect Drug, though... For the most part, though, I don't get MTV either. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. - George Carlin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:12:36 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> In: Fate/Destiny > > Damned souls are in Hell for a *reason*. They are evil - not just > > kinda bad, but really *evil* - they have met their Fate. Hell is > > But what about the note that Fates (and Destinies, for that > matter)...frankly, aren't always that big. Alright, so Hitler had > a mega Fate and probably deserves whatever he may be getting...but > what about the guy who was just Fated to not clean his cat's > litterbox out often enough? I don't see that as being a Fate, personally. If a Fate is bad enough to send you to hell, than it should be pretty bad. I wonder, though - it may be that some souls don't have a Fate or Destiny that they can achieve in this lifetime... > Primarily, this gives Celestials on both sides a good reason to > -NOT- get too involved in some of the really major human events. > Say, if a human is Destined to save a whole lot of souls, Hell may > be better off letting them DO it, so that they'll get it over with > and cycle out, rather than saving just a bunch of souls, getting > killed, popping back up, saving a few more, getting killed, > popping back up... Or they try even harder to get the person's Fate. To tie it in with my idea, that may be a reason for Demons to try tempting an "unimportant" human to his fate; if they don't now, the next time around, they'll be in the position to do a lot of damage with their Destiny. > We've also been thinking about having Fate and Destiny as traits > a human can purchase, similar to Roles......this only just > seriously occurred to me about 15 minutes ago, so the mechanics > still need tweaking. Hmmmm, interesting. Post it when you have more, for sure... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "This is my town. I know where the ketchup is." - Dan Smith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:57:23 +1000 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Christopher Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> Purgatory >On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Gregory Littmann wrote: > >> > Damned souls are in Hell for a *reason*. They are evil - not just >> > kinda bad, >> >> Where do kinda bad people go? > >I've been toying with the idea of a third Celestial Realm -- Purgatory. >penance for his sins rather than take the easy way out. > > >What think you? It's still in development stages, but I think it's an >interesting notion. > >-- Casca Perhaps souls get lost in the Reaches. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:39:46 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> What do we mean when we say "evil"? > > A point I *would* like to make is this: > > > > Damned souls are in Hell for a *reason*. They are evil - not just > > kinda bad, > > Where do kinda bad people go? They're reincarnated, according to canon. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. - George Carlin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:39:46 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [FICTION] Chess Game > > >Me, my personal fantasy would be meeting Eli in a female > > >vessel... :9 > > > > Oooooo..... > > Oh. Oh my. My my my my my. Hmmmmmmm. Yum. (Although Gabriel > and a bit of fireproofing is high on the list!) Takes "I've been a bad boy" to a whole new level, now doesn't it? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. - George Carlin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:17:02 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> backwards >> >Out of curiousity, how many other people play (or want to play) IN >> >backwards? So far, we have three (Oops, Em, and me). >> >> If someone would explain what is meant by 'backwards' in this >> case, I'd be glad to give it a try. > >Take the basic assumptions, and reverse them. God is bad, Hell is >good, the Ethereals are older than both, and Haggenati flosses. > The Computer is Your Friend. }:-{D Yeah, if this is on-line, I'll bite. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "Don't tell me, I'm keen to http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | guess... you only know how c/o White Lightning Productions | to play fighting games, right?" http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | --- Baal, playing Super Puzzle Webmaster for Antarctic Press | Fighter Turbo with Michael http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:29:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> backwards > > If someone would explain what is meant by 'backwards' in this > > case, I'd be glad to give it a try. > > Take the basic assumptions, and reverse them. God is bad, Hell is > good, the Ethereals are older than both, and Haggenati flosses. Actually, one of the scariest setups I've come up with started with "What if Haagenti isn't stupid, but is just acting..." > Nathaniel Eliot > temujin9@ix.netcom.com Oops da Ogre, it can get scary when he's plotting. mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:57:39 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> backwards >> > If someone would explain what is meant by 'backwards' in this >> > case, I'd be glad to give it a try. >> >> Take the basic assumptions, and reverse them. God is bad, Hell is >> good, the Ethereals are older than both, and Haggenati flosses. > >Actually, one of the scariest setups I've come up with started with >"What if Haagenti isn't stupid, but is just acting..." > Haagenti isn't a buffoon. You don't go from familiar to Demon Prince in 600 years or so by being stupid. Haagenti just doesn't give a DBFFFIALPOLGJ.* }:-{D He -likes- being a bully and a buffoon. He's got power now, he's going to have fun with it, and to Oblivion with anyone who doesn't like it. Now, if you want altered premises, try this. ASMODEUS: Now, the first round of torture: the COMFY CHAIR!! SERVITOR: Not the *GASP* Comfy Chair! ASMODEUS: SIT! Now, you shall sit in the Comfy Chair without respite until noon, except for a nice little tea with those yummy buttery biscuits at elevenses, and perhaps a nice little bit of conversation later on... (* Double Back Flip Flying F*** Into a Lukewarm Pool Of Lime Green Jello) Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "Don't tell me, I'm keen to http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | guess... you only know how c/o White Lightning Productions | to play fighting games, right?" http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | --- Baal, playing Super Puzzle Webmaster for Antarctic Press | Fighter Turbo with Michael http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 21:23:38 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: IN> Tethers to Janus or Valefor Here's a corundrum for Those Who Know. A Tether has a Seneschal to watch over it, right? No Seneschal, no Tether. However, servitors of Janus and Valefor cannot stay in the same area (let's say a twenty mile radius, since 'area' isn't specified anywhere in the IN Rulebook). How can a Servitor of either of these Superiors anchor and consecrate a Tether, much less stick around to watch over it? (This came up in the middle of one of my projects, a possible article to submit to Pyramid on the subject of non-urban IN settings. In the three sample adventure cores, you have locations in central Maine, southeast Texas, and central Arizona, with characters like Shawna, the high school guidance counselor who's really a Lilim in service to Kronos: Enri, the bitter Habbalite whose request to be made the Demon of Beef earned him the Word of Cowtipping; and Trixiel, formerly the Angel of Wetnurses under Novalis, now the Impudite Demoness of Breast Fetishes under Andreaphalus. In the Arizona case, you're dealing with a truck stop/ no-tell motel which is a center for transferring smuggled and stolen goods. The planned adventure seed there involved the PCs getting wind of some Celestial working to establish a tether- but to Janus or Valefor? Do the PCs help, or hinder, this Celestial? Do they destroy the Very Powerful McGuffin passing through this point, do they steal it themselves, or do they call in their Superiors and hope for the best? Now, if Janus and Valefor can't -have- tethers this is all rather moot. }:-{D ) Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "Don't tell me, I'm keen to http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | guess... you only know how c/o White Lightning Productions | to play fighting games, right?" http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | --- Baal, playing Super Puzzle Webmaster for Antarctic Press | Fighter Turbo with Michael http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:57:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> What do we mean when we say "evil"? > > > Damned souls are in Hell for a *reason*. They are evil - not just > > > kinda bad, > > Where do kinda bad people go? > They're reincarnated, according to canon. Only if they could've been worse. If kinda bad is their lowest point, they burn. (Well, assuming they go to Sheol, anyway.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:48:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> backwards > > I not only play it backwards I play it on an old 45.! > So what do you hear when you play it backwards? I bet it's cool stuff, > like, "Eat Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream" or "The Gnomes of Zurich have Actually, I was playing it backwards a bit last night, and kept getting, "You Will Obey Emily Dresner. Do As She Commands." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:26:45 -0700 (PDT) From: nightgaunt@earthlink.net (Alexander Shearer) Subject: Re: IN> On Playing Evil >None of that is stuff I'd play IN to (except maybe as music in a >bar). What's Vena Cava (excuse the heathen...). I brought it up in an earlier (brief) thread on music for IN. Vena Cava is an album by Diamanda Galas. She's an incredible singer, one whom I've been fortunate enough to see live. Vena Cava is one of her harsher albums, including some amazing vocal ranges and glossolalia (speaking in tongues). I don't know that I'd actually use Vena Cava for a whole adventure - - some of her less disturbing stuff might be good for softer moments. > >> (Ah...memories of the Robotech game at a con long ago >> where our mission commander decided to enslave the local >> population we were liberating. Joy.) > >There is one bonus to playing in a game with these people - you have >an opponent who isn't likely to pull punches like a GM will. And no >matter who wins, you're out of the situation you didn't like... Actually, he wasn't really my opponent. We didn't really have time to deal with him, since we had to oppose an Invid advance, or some such. It was just a disturbing abuse of power. Alexander Shearer nightgaunt@earthlink.net gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 23:52:08 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> backwards > Haagenti isn't a buffoon. You don't go from familiar to Demon > Prince in 600 years or so by being stupid. > > Haagenti just doesn't give a DBFFFIALPOLGJ.* You know, I was already worried when I hit this... > (* Double Back Flip Flying F*** Into a Lukewarm Pool Of Lime Green > Jello) But this was inspired. Now if I could only learn how to spout stuff like this, verbally, I'd be happy. A lot more insulting, but happy... (Does Kobal have an attunement for that, and will he give it to soldiers?) Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. - George Carlin ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #395 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.