From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Tue Oct 14 16:30:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28011 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:30:20 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA30272 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:55:43 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:55:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199710142055.PAA30272@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #404 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, October 14 1997 Volume 01 : Number 404 In this digest: Re: IN> Sacraments I Re: IN> [GRISTLE] Secret agent Beleth Re: IN> Bast Re: IN> [FICTION] Chess Game Re: IN> backwards Re: IN> Band Attunements Re: IN> Demon of The Commons Re: IN> Band Attunements Re: IN> Band Attunements Re: IN> Demon of The Commons Re: IN> backwards IN> Sacraments III Re: IN> Band Attunements Re: IN> [GRISTLE] Secret agent Beleth Re: IN> Bast IN> The Wrap IN> (fluffy) The Seven Deadly Sins Re: IN> (fluffy) The Seven Deadly Sins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: CeIestiaI7@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Sacraments I In a message dated 97-10-13 12:17:03 EDT, you write: > What happened to the previous angels of this Word? Divorce is an ugly thing...especially at the Celestial level. Honestly, I haven't considered an entire history for these NPCs, as I haven't worked them into my campaign yet (though I'm quite excited about doing so). I'm leaning towards having had the Word of Marriage passed around from choir to choir, Superior to Superior. For instance, I like the idea of a Kyriotate of Flowers having had the Word for a long time. Obviously Marriage has changed over time; once Novalis' servitor was removed from office, another superior may have seen fit to petition for the Word to suit their own agenda. I see it like this: Laurence, not at all happy with the way Novalis' servitor has been running the Word of Marriage, bides his time until the current Word-holder has her Forces scattered by the Demon of Adultery. He then makes a case to the Seraphim Council that one of his own servitors should hold the Word, so that the Sacrament of Marriage is upheld as a contract made before the Almighty rather than a paganistic ritual with His Presence as an afterthought. Laurence wins. Of course, Novalis plans revenge (killing him with Kindness, no doubt)... Scott Mercurain Friend of Flowers, Angel of Chilling Out ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:29:43 -0700 (PDT) From: nightgaunt@earthlink.net (Alexander Shearer) Subject: Re: IN> [GRISTLE] Secret agent Beleth >Well, *I* found it oblique. But then, I haven't read "Marches." > Hmmm. Neither have I. Maybe I should just explain it. Any interest out there, or should I stop thinking of these things? Alexander Shearer nightgaunt@earthlink.net gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:58:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin D. Hutchins" Subject: Re: IN> Bast > The works of E. A. Wallis Budge are still readily available through > Dover Books, though they are pretty dated by now, since he was a > late Victorian. I used his "From Fetish to God in Ancient Egypt." "Well, the translation of the outer track is... -wrong-. Must've used Budge, I dunno why they keep reprinting his books." - --G. free-associating ObInNomine: If anybody cares, I'm juggling my usual 7,500 different projects right now, one of which as a drop-dead date of October 31, which is why I haven't come up with anything new for the Marlael Chronicles lately... don't want anybody thinking I quit... - -- Benjamin D. Hutchins, cofounder and Keeper-Straight of the Continuity Eyrie Productions, Unlimited - An AnimeTech Limited Company -><- Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.eyrie.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:17:49 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> [FICTION] Chess Game >>BTW, I don't see Laurance letting himself get talked into that (or Malphas, >>for that matter). > >Well, Laurence didn't want to play what Novalis wanted to play, Novalis >didn't want to play what Laurence wanted to play, Malphas didn't want to >play what anybody else wanted to play, nobody was crazy enough to play >four-way M:tG with Malphas... so Kobal kinda stepped into the breach. }:-{D > Ah. Well then it's a good then they didn't let Laurance be Simon. ...or Novalis: "Simon says, give everyone a big hug." - Malphas gains dissonance - Kobal reaches down and gives Laurance a wedgie - Laurance accidently cracks a few of Kobal's ribs - Novalis is upset that everyone isn't playing nice Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:22:13 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> backwards At 08:05 AM 10/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >> Oh so? If I were interested (and I probably am), which one would I be? }:-{D > > >Me too. > > >I mean, I know who I'd _want_ to be... > Yeah, I'd love to do Gabriel. Did you know that once you manage to light a magnesium pan, it'll burn through your driveway? Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:49:20 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Band Attunements > >I believe (and I'd better be right, or I'm going to make >Big Eyes at my superior) that canon is: You can buy any other Band >Attunement from your Prince for 5 points (provided it doesn't >depend on a resonance you don't have). You can get a Servitor >Attunement from another Prince with a good backstory and points >and chocolate for the GM. > So, Walt... ...what's the points/chocolate ratio in your campaign? Is it dissonant for an angel to bribe the GM? Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:09:04 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Demon of The Commons At 12:39 AM 9/25/97 -0700, you wrote: > Here's one that came to me in Biochem lecture today (for no >particular reason). As an aside: Can anyone who knows what document inspired >this please remind me who the author was? > I'm tempted to think that this was based on the economics example: The Tragedy of the Commons. If so, it's off base. TotC basically states that if use of a resource is free that people will overuse it to the point that its value drops to zero. The concept is based on a grass commons. If people were allowed to graze their sheep on the commons for free, then evenutally enough people will take advantage of that and the commons will be overgrazed making it valueless to everyone. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 02:00:53 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Band Attunements On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:49:20, Jeff Miller wrote: >>I believe (and I'd better be right, or I'm going to make >>Big Eyes at my superior) that canon is: You can buy any other Band >>Attunement from your Prince for 5 points (provided it doesn't >>depend on a resonance you don't have). You can get a Servitor >>Attunement from another Prince with a good backstory and points >>and chocolate for the GM. >> >So, Walt... ...what's the points/chocolate ratio in your campaign? > >Is it dissonant for an angel to bribe the GM? My thinking is the FAQ-recommend 15 points for an SA and 20 points for a foreign CA, assuming that both your Superior (your AA/DP) and your superior (your immediate supervisor, possibly also an AA/DP) feel it's a good idea or needed for your mission. Per IN, approval is *not* an automatic formality: if either feels your points would be better spent elsewhere or that the attunement would be a bad idea, it won't be approved. If something is really essential to the mission or you do something spectacularly good (or bad), some action by either your Superior or superior is possible, points aside--nearly always the superior. Action caused by something spectacularly bad would tend to get offset by discord or a points deficit, while something spectacularly good would tend to be a gift. Stuff essential to a mission would tend to be a loan, perhaps forgotten if the mission is successful. It is not dissonant to bribe the GM, but chocolate contaminated with milk or nuts will increase the point cost and white chocolate, being inherently demonic, is very dissonant. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:40:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> Band Attunements > My thinking is the FAQ-recommend 15 points for an SA and 20 points for a > foreign CA, assuming that both your Superior (your AA/DP) and your superior > (your immediate supervisor, possibly also an AA/DP) feel it's a good idea > or needed for your mission. Per IN, approval is *not* an automatic > formality: if either feels your points would be better spent elsewhere or > that the attunement would be a bad idea, it won't be approved. I haven't had to worry about it for PCs yet, but I probably wouldn't charge extra points. However, you had better have a _really_ good reason and expect a few drawbacks, such as your Superior eyeing you suspiciously and increased attention by the opposition (If Kronos grants you an attunement, expect more attention from servants of Destiny...) > gift. Stuff essential to a mission would tend to be a loan, perhaps > forgotten if the mission is successful. I have to back him up here. Loans are very useful. > It is not dissonant to bribe the GM, but chocolate contaminated with milk > or nuts will increase the point cost and white chocolate, being inherently > demonic, is very dissonant. ;) Okay, now we get to real reson I responded. I take offense on behalf of the Infernal Legions. We prefer good dark chocolate. White chocolate is too bland to come from anywhere other than Heaven. Oops da Ogre, probably Laurence's idea... mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:05:30 -0700 (PDT) From: nightgaunt@earthlink.net (Alexander Shearer) Subject: Re: IN> Demon of The Commons >At 12:39 AM 9/25/97 -0700, you wrote: >> Here's one that came to me in Biochem lecture today (for no >>particular reason). As an aside: Can anyone who knows what document inspired >>this please remind me who the author was? >> >I'm tempted to think that this was based on the economics example: The >Tragedy of the Commons. > >If so, it's off base. TotC basically states that if use of a resource is >free that people will overuse it to the point that its value drops to zero. > The concept is based on a grass commons. If people were allowed to graze >their sheep on the commons for free, then evenutally enough people will >take advantage of that and the commons will be overgrazed making it >valueless to everyone. Hmmm. That's what I meant to go for...so I probably just lost sight of it while I was writing (that's what happens with off-the-cuff when I'm tired, I guess). Ick. Oh well - I still think it's a cool word for a demon, even if I can't write straight all the time. At least someone noticed. :) Alexander Shearer nightgaunt@earthlink.net gaunt@uclink4.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 00:14 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> backwards >> [> of the Game, back into her subconscious> Sorry, sorry, been depriving >> her of her fictional existance... Getting uppity.] > >Now, now, Dearie. Every now and again you have to let your inner demon >loose (make a break for it, K.K.!) She wasn't talking about K.K. K.K. is *nice* compared to Betharan (who has yet to make a public appearance, as far as I know...). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:38:04 -0400 (EDT) From: CeIestiaI7@aol.com Subject: IN> Sacraments III I was going to save Penance for last, but the idea I got for it wouldn't wait. I kinda like the thought of the Angel of Contrition performing her own penance while "in office." Without further ado...(those looking for further ado, please email me privately 0;-) - ----------------------------------------CUT-HERE---------------%< Havilah Angel of Contrition Bright Lilim of Fire "...and I firmly resolve with the help of Thy Grace, to sin no more, and avoid the near occasion on of Sin. Amen" With those words, the Dissonant notes flowed from the penitent angel and into the vessel of the robed pardoner. As the words of remorse flew on to Heaven, the eternally young hands of the cloaked woman withered and suffered boils and open sores as Discord was made manifest. "Now go forth and sin no more." "Thank you, Havilah," said the unburdened angel as he stood to leave. "For your Penance," Havilah said, putting an emphatic punch in her words to sit the petitioner down. The angel sat. "For your Penance," continued Havilah, "You will spend a week in service to the Symphony's impoverished and not allow your adversaries to draw you into battle." The angel's eyes grew wide, "What? If I don't lift my sword to defend myself, I'll be eaten alive by the diabolicals!" Havilah pulled back her cowl , revealing a blemished and discolored visage. She was acutely aware of the angel's revulsion. "Penance, my friend, it not an easy thing to live with." Corporeal Forces - 3 Strength 7 Agility 5 Ethereal Forces - 3 Intelligence 6 Precision 6 Celestial Forces - 4 Will 10 Perception 6 Vessels: Human/5 (Adult Female) Skills: Detect Lies/2, Emote/5, Escape/3, Lying/6, Move Silently/1, Savoir-Faire/2, Seduction/6, Small Weapons/2 Songs: Attraction (Ethereal/4), Dreams (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/2, Celestial/5), Horns/2, Wings/2 Attunements: Malakim of Fire Special Rites: Hear a sincere confession +1; Hear the confession of a repentant diabolical +6 For years, Elsabet, demon of Sexual Dreams, served Andrealphus in the Prince's most elite ranks. She was responsible for more misogyny, adultery, and fetishism than any two lilim in Prince Andre's employ. The dreams she created were art of the most perverse color, and taunted mortals with dreams which reality could not hope to emulate. She created many a sexual predator from her dreamers, but in the end, they suffered crippling cruelty at her hands (and assorted parts) as well. Enter Lemuel and Lehabim, a seraph of Dreams and elohite of Fire respectively. It was they who first noticed the subtle perversions of Elsabet. Working in tandem, the angels were able to prevent her from spreading her brand of emotional torture any further. Once captured, she was unable to demean the act of physical love. She was turned over to Gabriel for her sentencing. Much to everyone's surprise, Gabriel embraced the lilim and conditionally took her under an archangelic wing. Many other superiors (Dominic especially) voiced their outrage at Gabriel's acceptance of the unrepentant demoness. They thought that Hell was surely having a chuckle at this Archangel's folly. Gabriel and Elsabet soon proved them wrong. A year later, Elsabet was renamed Havilah and declared by Gabriel as a Bright Lilim, redeemed from the influence of The Adversary. In a second bold (some have said blasphemous) gesture, Gabriel announced that Havilah would petition for the Word of Contrition, and speak for herself to the Council. Of all the Archangels, only Yves, and in a surprising tactical move, Laurence* showed support for the petitioner. Ultimately though, it was Havilah's own words and actions that swayed the Council into approving her for the chosen Word. As the Angel of Contrition, Havilah is not merely in charge of overseeing the reparations of dissonant celestials and sinful mortals. She is charged with making sure that they are remorseful as well. Her word and her own resonance have endowed her with a special tool for fulfilling her mission. She is able to dissipate the Dissonance and Sin of others and wear it on her image as Corporeal Discord. As a lilim, however, she is able to enact a geas for such a service. Her tasks are unusually difficult, but most of the Host would rather pay the price than risk prosecution by Dominic's Servitors or worse. GAME MECHANICS: Havilah hears the confessions of those she deems truly needy of her service. She can also carry the burden of Sin for mortals as well. While humans have no dissonance, the nature of the sin being pardoned (rather than the number of Dissonance notes) determines the level of geas being placed on the mortal. A practical list of sins and their level follows: Theft.....2 Adultery.....3 Premeditated Murder.....6 any of the above while knowingly under the orders of a diabolical Superior....+1 accessory to another's sin (by counsel, command, consent, provocation, praise, concealment, partaking, silence, or by defense)....-1 Of course the few examples are only guidelines and are, as always, subject to the situation and GM fiat. THE WORD OF CONTRITION: The saintly scholars in the Halls of Worship officially recognize Havilah as a Sacramental Angel even though previous angels actually held the Word "Penance" as opposed to Contrition. As might be expected, the previous holders of Penance were a seraph and an elohite. The nature of this office changed subtly with the change in Word, but the few voices of protest soon calmed as the elder Archangels seemed to acquiesce to the judgment of the Council. Dominic is still festering, but even he is (secretly) impressed with how the office and the Word are shaping up. *Laurence is not dumb. He recognizes a tactical advantage when he sees one. In this case, a lilim on the side of Heaven, further empowered by a potent Word, is a decided victory over the forces of Hell. Now if only his gamble pays out... - ----------------------------------------CUT-HERE---------------%< Scott Mercurian Friend of Flowers, Angel of Chilling Out ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 05:30:14 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Band Attunements On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:40:06 -0500 (CDT), Donald G Bixler wrote: >> My thinking is the FAQ-recommend 15 points for an SA and 20 points for a >> foreign CA, assuming that both your Superior (your AA/DP) and your superior >> (your immediate supervisor, possibly also an AA/DP) feel it's a good idea >> or needed for your mission. Per IN, approval is *not* an automatic >> formality: if either feels your points would be better spent elsewhere or >> that the attunement would be a bad idea, it won't be approved. > >I haven't had to worry about it for PCs yet, but I probably wouldn't >charge extra points. However, you had better have a _really_ good >reason and expect a few drawbacks, such as your Superior eyeing you >suspiciously and increased attention by the opposition (If Kronos >grants you an attunement, expect more attention from servants of >Destiny...) My feeling is that the extra points reflect the metaphysical difficulty of granting the request. Granting an alien SA isn't so hard, but a CA is tougher because you don't have the ties to that AA/DP. I agree with you about the drawbacks. >> It is not dissonant to bribe the GM, but chocolate contaminated with milk >> or nuts will increase the point cost and white chocolate, being inherently >> demonic, is very dissonant. ;) > >Okay, now we get to real reson I responded. I take offense on behalf of >the Infernal Legions. We prefer good dark chocolate. White chocolate >is too bland to come from anywhere other than Heaven. Nybbas strikes again. Novalis would say that dark chocolate is closest to God's original creation; white chocolate is corrupted. Of course, Novalis is happy to convert you to Heaven's side. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:06:44 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [GRISTLE] Secret agent Beleth I'm interested. Earl W. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:49:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Bast On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Emily Dresner wrote: > Do try to get the creation of Sahkmet myth, while you're at it. And don't > mind the blood. I already have it some where. I think it is in one of my books of goddesses. I always thought it interesting that after letting her loose the other gods THEN figured out it was a BAD tactical manuver. Shadowcat The last HUMAN preist of Bast. Who purrs by the grave of the unshriven dead, while witches dance and ghouls are fed ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:45:38 +0200 From: Jo Hart Subject: IN> The Wrap I've just finished successfully running my first short IN campaign (at least I think it was successful, everyone claimed to have enjoyed themselves (I know I did ;) ) and there was definite interest in the idea of a 'sequel' set in Brussels), this does touch vaguely on the thread about playing Evil as I had a very clear idea of what style of game it was going to be so I asked everyone to generate infernally aligned PCs. Rather than spamming the list with details (I've always found it unthrilling to hear other people go on at length about their games) I've dumped some of the material I gave out to the players on a web page at http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/temp.htm in case anyone is curious. The basic setup was that they all had roles as civil servants and one of their major day to day jobs was to make sure that nothing good, or that could significantly improve people's lives ever came out of Whitehall. (Its a tough job but someone has to do it). It may not seem as nasty as murder and rape but .. it is. jo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:23:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> (fluffy) The Seven Deadly Sins I was just going over which Demon Princes map to which of the classical Seven Deadly Sins, as so many of us have done in the past. Here's what I got: Pride -- Lucifer himself, or maybe Saminga Gluttony -- Haagenti, of course Sloth -- vacant. The closest we're likely to get to a replacement is Apathy, i.e. Ralph, and he's not necessarily canonical. Greed -- Mammon, coming any day now. Lust -- Andre. Anger and Envy appear to be vacant, or at least, I can't find any Prince who maps to either of them with sufficient precision for my tastes. Does anyone else have an existing Superior they'd like to volunteer as containing either (or indeed both) of those Words (Superiors on the INC are eligible for this)? If not, I may have to invent them... Austin George "And that could get messy" Loomis, MiSTie #84029 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:32:27 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> (fluffy) The Seven Deadly Sins Austin George Loomis wrote: > Anger and Envy appear to be vacant.... > Does anyone else have an existing Superior they'd like to volunteer as > containing either (or indeed both) of those Words (Superiors on the > INC are eligible for this)? For Envy, I nominate Malphas, Prince of Faction. For Anger, Baal or Belial (I can't keep them straight), the fire bug. Earl W. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #404 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.