From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Oct 20 13:57:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10757 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:57:58 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA04883 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:02:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:02:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199710201802.NAA04883@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #412 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, October 20 1997 Volume 01 : Number 412 In this digest: RE: IN> [FFULF] New Demonette: Tizzy! IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #411 Re: IN> Revelations Cycle Revealed! RE: IN> [FFULF] New Demonette: Tizzy! Re: IN> Revelations Cycle Revealed! Re: IN> US Satanism (LONG) IN> [FFULF] New Demonette: Tizzy! Re: IN> [FFULF] New Demonette: Tizzy! IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Re: IN> [FFULF] New Demonette: Tizzy! IN> [DARK VICTORY] Andrealphus IN> [DARK VICTORY] Andrealphus Re: IN> US Satanism (LONG) Re: IN> Raziel/Ghogiel IN> Redeeming Shedim: it can be done Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Re: IN> US Satanism Re: IN> Redeeming Shedim: it can be done Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Re: IN> Redeeming Shedim: it can be done IN> Pagan Soldiers Re: IN> Expanded superior write-ups ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:18:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Dorothy Bixler Subject: RE: IN> [FFULF] New Demonette: Tizzy! On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > > > >Tizzy feels Impuditesque to me, friendly, cute, radiating good will and > >harmlessness... > > > >How did Tizzy end up being a Djinn? > > > If I may suggest, a Djinn may act nice, but not truly care. Impudites > genuinely like humans (on average). A Djinn can act nice, pretend to care, > and stab the humans in the back without a second thought. > > Redneck Exactly. Tizzy way act cute but she couldn't care less for the humans around her. Tamagotchis yes, computers yes, people no (unless they buy her things and then she'll think about it. *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* "Gidget, have you been laying with the Horned One again?" -MST3K's Mike from "The Thing the Couldn't Die" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:06:28 -0400 From: David Paul Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #411 > > Well, it's a week late, but I finally got it done. I sent copies > > directly to the people who sent me requests, but I'll be willing > > to post it to the list, if you all would like. Be forwarned- it's > > _long_. > > I'd say send it to the list. If that's vetoed, put me on the list > for it. Me too! - -- David Paul janus@ioa.com - ----------------------------------------------------- Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your home. -- (Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 06:13:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Revelations Cycle Revealed! On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > > > There's always "Dark Victory"... Of course, should you trust > > > anyone with six eyes and no halo? };;;> > > THAT would be interesting - the canon goes Dark, and all of a sudden > > Em, Oops, and I are playing forwards again... > *ah-HEM* > > Anyway, speak for yourself. I have a feeling Em and I, at least, > would still manage to do it backwards. And I would still be sliding sideways. One of the groups I am dealing with now, are all servants of the pagen Gods, and consider both the angels AND the demons to be a pain. Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:35:44 EST From: "PERRY M. LLOYD" Subject: RE: IN> [FFULF] New Demonette: Tizzy! >> >Tizzy feels Impuditesque to me, friendly, cute, radiating good will and >> >harmlessness... >> > >> >How did Tizzy end up being a Djinn? >> > >> If I may suggest, a Djinn may act nice, but not truly care. Impudites >> genuinely like humans (on average). A Djinn can act nice, pretend to care, >> and stab the humans in the back without a second thought. >> >> Redneck > >Exactly. Tizzy way act cute but she couldn't care less for the humans >around her. Tamagotchis yes, computers yes, people no (unless they buy >her things and then she'll think about it. Doh! That's right, people don't always act they way they feel. I keep *forgetting* that! Must be that damn Seraphim complex... - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd My mother's cooking (she's a goddess). Being comforted after a fall. Going to bed early. These are a few of my favorite things. (A.k.a. "Not why I came to college.") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 06:11:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Revelations Cycle Revealed! On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 4:52 AM -0500 10/16/97, Shadowcat wrote: > >On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > >> The Malakim in Black will now release the persistant Servitors of > >> Litheroy, and execute the Servitors of Nybbas, who kept trying to > >> discover this information. > > > > Does this meen that that angel with the black wings will be > >leaving my aprtment soon? He is getting expensive to feed, and he HATES > >my extra spicy chilli. > > He's eating? He's not supposed to be doing that. Indulging in > corporeal pleasures and all that stuff. Tsk. Yeah, kick him out if > he's one of mine. I'll have a little talk with him. I pointed this message out to him, and he asked for assylum. You must be a scary mistress. Unfortunatly for him, he has now been relegated to keeping Shelley (one of my cats) away from either my In Nomine stuff or the Magick books. I think he will be returning to you anytime now ;-) > > > I just thought of something. I thought Khalid was suposed to be > >in the Angelic players guide. What happened? > > For numerous reasons, including space and some other things we > wanted to do, Khalid got shifted to Rev. 5. The space he was going > to take up in the APG is being used for many more things that will > hopefully make everyone happy. And what Grim88 said. Thank you. Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:48:16 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> US Satanism (LONG) > >I'd say send it to the list. If that's vetoed, put me on the list > >for it. > > Well there haven't been any objections... Dig it. I liked the writeups, and have kept them for future use. Something interesting showed up, though, and I though you folks might like to check it out. > The Temple of Set http://www.xeper.org/pub/tos/index.html The official Temple page. Since you never gave the true name of Michael Aquino, I'd suggest Xeper. The fifth link off this page deals with "The Eternal Word of Set" - my feeling is that it is simply a way for sorcerers with ties to the Temple to contact him, rather than any actual Word. http://www.xeper.org/pub/tos/infoadms.html This is the standard information letter sent by the Temple - I haven't had a chance to look at it fully, but it should help flesh out the Temple. http://www.cchat.com/ormsond/gothic.htm This page is about vampyres - I found it on a page dedicated to the Temple. But if you read it closely, it sounds like the creation of a mummy - the references to black magicians seem to deal with Soldiers, or less likely, actual sorcerers. Is Baal recruiting from the Temple? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. - Neil Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 01:55:07 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> [FFULF] New Demonette: Tizzy! >>>If I may suggest, a Djinn may act nice, but not truly care. Impudites genuinely like humans (on average). A Djinn can act nice, pretend to care, and stab the humans in the back without a second thought.<<< You know all those stories about some kid living on a farm who becomes emotionally attached to a cute little bunny, or lamb, or goose, or whatever, only to be horrified when it becomes Christmas dinner? A Djinn is a person who could feed and pet and care for that cute little critter, as lovingly as the little kid....and then carve it up for dinner without blinking an eye. An Impudite, on the other hand, could never bring himself to do that. But he'd love it and hug it and pet it and squeeze it and-- [cue Esmeralda soundbite]. He'd love it, but only for the pleasure and gratification it gives HIM. Or to look at it another way, an Impudite loves humans the way I love Haagen Daaz ice cream. ;) - -David http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DavidEdelstein/innomine.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 00:15:56 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> [FFULF] New Demonette: Tizzy! > >>I made this little one up awhile ago mainly to come up with a Djinn who > >>was nice. > >Nice? NICE?! Djinn aren't NICE!!!! Djinn sit in corners and brood, they > >Tizzy feels Impuditesque to me, friendly, cute, radiating good will and > >harmlessness... > >How did Tizzy end up being a Djinn? > If I may suggest, a Djinn may act nice, but not truly care. Impudites If *I* may suggest, and I may...I don't see where Djinn CAN'T be nice. The average Djinn maybe isn't, but if everyone who smiles is an Impudite...bleah. It's not like Tizzy's a Servitor of Lust who gets dissonance if she cares...and, of course, being nice doesn't necessarily mean caring anyway. It just means you smile more. I'll grant, it does seem part of the basic Djinn nature that they don't form strong connections to people, but I don't see anything in their Resonance that mandates BROODING... Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go brood over this. And I'm NOT a djinn. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 02:14:49 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes The following is a superbrief summary of what happened to the Superiors besides Lucifer after Armageddeon in the Dark Victory universe. Detailed writeups of the remaining ones on this list will be done as requested and time permits. (The former, considering the response on the Lucifer writeup, I don't seriously expect.) ARCHANGELS BLANDINE - Deceased. DAVID - Stripped to five forces, trapped in Vapula's lab DOMINIC - Fallen, is now the Demon Prince of Cleansing ELI - De facto leader of the Celestial faction to preserve the Universe GABRIEL - Weakened but still nominally an Archangel, only Celestial who still believes God is still watching JANUS - MIA JEAN - Deceased JORDI - Stark raving mad, not Fallen but actively hunting humanity; only retains a handful of fanatic Servitors LAURENCE - Deceased MARC - Lost Archangel status, serves Lucifer, no Servitors MICHAEL - Deceased NOVALIS - Lost Archangel status, Lucifer's chief lieutenant, handful of Servitors without special Rites, Distinctions, and with only Choir attunements and Nothing But Flowers YVES - As cryptic as ever, weakened but still potent DEMON PRINCES ANDREAPHALUS - Sides with Eli, least trusted and most despised of the Preserver faction; Archangel of Lust ASMODEUS - Deceased BAAL - Deceased BELETH - Deceased BELIAL - Deceased HAAGENTI - Reduced in power, but still a Demon Prince, and still hungry KOBAL - Redeemed in Armageddeon, briefly became Archangel of Laughter, and was devoured by Haagenti, presumed deceased KRONOS - Alive and well, working to push Creation on to its final Fate LILITH - Severely dissonant, on the brink of Redeeming; defected to the Preserver cause, is now Archangel of Freedom; if she Redeems, she will probably become Archangel of Liberation MALPHAS - scheming to dethrone Saminga as de facto Replacement Adversary NYBBAS - defected to the Preserver cause, now claims to be the Archangel of Communication; works closely with Eli SAMINGA - strongest Superior currently in Hell, is actively stripping both living humans and Demons of their Forces to add to himself VALEFOR - MIA, presumed deceased VAPULA - happily tortur- um, experimenting with Malakim prisoners, - -especially- David THE REMAINING FACTIONS PRESERVERS/ARCHANGELS DESTROYERS/DEMON PRINCES DECEASED OR OTHER Andreaphalus Dominic Asmodeus Eli Haagenti Baal Gabriel Kronos Beleth Lilith Malphas Belial Lucifer (served by) Saminga Blandine Marc David Novalis Janus Nybbas Vapula Jordi Yves Kobal Laurence Michael Valefor NIGHT MUSIC SUPERIORS CHISTOPHER - severely weakened, serves Yves FLEURITY - deceased FURFUR - stronger than ever, as Hardcore grips all of Creation, but not strong enough to directly challenge for the Granite Throne... yet. Other Superiors are not listed, 'cause I don't have the supplements. One final note: It seems as if the Heavenly forces outnumber Hell, Superior for Superior. This is a fallacy. Hell has only a handful of Superiors remaining, since the current ruler of Hell, Saminga, has no desire to appoint new ones. The Superiors Heaven has remaining or appoints are much weaker than their demonic counterparts, with the exceptions of Eli and Lucifer. Even if Kobal were to return from Haagenti's gullet by some bizarre miracle, if David were rescued and restored to power, if Janus and Jordi return to the fold, Heaven would -still- be heavily outnumbered and outgunned. A game played in the Dark Victory universe will be played either from the Hell standpoint (in which you will be seeking to finish the destruction of everything, or to see your Superior seated on the Granite Throne as the Supreme Being) or from the New Heaven standpoint (in which demons and angels fight side by side in uneasy alliance, willing to forsake the old War to preserve and restore God's Creation). I personally find the latter more interesting, but there's plenty of possibilities in the former... Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 04:47:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Raoul Duke Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > The following is a superbrief summary of what happened to the Superiors > besides Lucifer after Armageddeon in the Dark Victory universe. Detailed > writeups of the remaining ones on this list will be done as requested and > time permits. (The former, considering the response on the Lucifer writeup, > I don't seriously expect.) Well, I liked it, but didn't have all that much constructive to add. However, as far as this goes: > DEMON PRINCES > > ANDREAPHALUS - Sides with Eli, least trusted and most despised of the > Preserver faction; Archangel of Lust - -- I'd like some more info, if you don't mind. Why would Andrea switch sides, and why would Lust be perceived as a more fitting word than Love for an AA? (Mind you, nothing wrong with lust per se, but I think it can be assumed that love is more beneficial and lasting, yes?) Joe ------------------------------ Date: 20 Oct 1997 12:53:01 +0200 From: Magnus Y Alvestad Subject: Re: IN> [FFULF] New Demonette: Tizzy! [David Edelstein] | Or to look at it another way, an Impudite loves humans the way I | love Haagen Daaz ice cream. ;) You mean you hug it and fuzz with it, but you won't eat it? - -Magnus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:43:41 -0200 From: ### SRGS ### Subject: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Andrealphus Raoul Duke wrote: > > ANDREAPHALUS - Sides with Eli, least trusted and most despised of the > > Preserver faction; Archangel of Lust > -- I'd like some more info, if you don't mind. Why would Andrea switch > sides, and why would Lust be perceived as a more fitting word than Love > for an AA? (Mind you, nothing wrong with lust per se, but I think it can > be assumed that love is more beneficial and lasting, yes?) Excuse me: Andre, AA of Love?? Ok, he's probably redeemed, but he's still The Impudite. Can you imagine Andre... loving? No, *if* I were him , I would have sided with the Preservers for one reason: Saminga is ruling downthere! He's crazy!! He wants my forces! He wants everything dead! How can we have pleasure if we are dead?? Humans must be preserved - they need the joy of the flesh even more now than they ever needed it! But, hey... I am *not* changing the way *I* am... Capiscce? It doesn't matter if it's selfish - New Heaven (The Preservers) have much more in their minds to worry about it... And when everything is under control and they *start* worrying - well, Hell will be a better place... once more... Andre, D.P. ):-9 p.s.: BTW- Redneck, this DV stuff is great! Where you find the time to come with that?? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:10:47 -0200 From: Andre Ribeiro Subject: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Andrealphus Oops! Sorry about the strange sender settings... I'm back to normal now. And no, I won't tell what *that* was about...):-9 Raoul Duke wrote: > > ANDREAPHALUS - Sides with Eli, least trusted and most despised of the > > Preserver faction; Archangel of Lust > -- I'd like some more info, if you don't mind. Why would Andrea switch > sides, and why would Lust be perceived as a more fitting word than Love > for an AA? (Mind you, nothing wrong with lust per se, but I think it can > be assumed that love is more beneficial and lasting, yes?) Excuse me: Andre, AA of Love?? Ok, he's probably redeemed, but he's still The Impudite. Can you imagine Andre... loving? No, *if* I were him , I would have sided with the Preservers for one reason: Saminga is ruling downthere! He's crazy!! He wants my forces! He wants everything dead! How can we have pleasure if we are dead?? Humans must be preserved - they need the joy of the flesh even more now than they ever needed it! But, hey... I am *not* changing the way *I* am... Capiscce? It doesn't matter if it's selfish - New Heaven (The Preservers) have much more in their minds to worry about it... And when everything is under control and they *start* worrying - well, Hell will be a better place... once more... Andre, D.P. ):-9 p.s.: BTW- Redneck, this DV stuff is great! Where you find the time to come with that?? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:44:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Dorothy Bixler Subject: Re: IN> US Satanism (LONG) On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > Dig it. I liked the writeups, and have kept them for future use. > Something interesting showed up, though, and I though you folks might > like to check it out. Thank you. I'm glad to hear it'll get some use :) > > > The Temple of Set > > http://www.xeper.org/pub/tos/index.html > > The official Temple page. Since you never gave the true name of > Michael Aquino, I'd suggest Xeper. The fifth link off this page > deals with "The Eternal Word of Set" - my feeling is that it is > simply a way for sorcerers with ties to the Temple to contact > him, rather than any actual Word. Hrm. Yeah I should have listed Xeper as his real name. It's also the name that Aquino posts to newsgroups under. IIRC, that's the term for the TOS's higest "stage of enlightenment". (snip) > > This page is about vampyres - I found it on a page dedicated to the > Temple. But if you read it closely, it sounds like the creation of a > mummy - the references to black magicians seem to deal with Soldiers, > or less likely, actual sorcerers. Is Baal recruiting from the > Temple? > I would say yes. Anyone who has talked to any of the TOS memebers knows that they are very War-like (Baalish?). And I would see no reason why they would have any problems actively serving Hell. > > Nathaniel Eliot > temujin9@ix.netcom.com > > I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. > - Neil Hudson > *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* "Gidget, have you been laying with the Horned One again?" -MST3K's Mike from "The Thing the Couldn't Die" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:37:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Raziel/Ghogiel Huzzah! And I have had a chance to answer my mail! > Yaha! FINALLY had a chance to sit down and read Raziel and > Ghogiel...Unfortunately, I don't have the references (including the > Marches) to respond directly to a lot of the background, but, being me, > I did find a COUPLE comments, based mainly on how I think they'd > integrate into a game...(or, more specifically, into mine, because I > definitely want these two in my IN world...*ahem*) *beam* My influence spreads! Cool! My caveat was that there were bugs, so lets see how the bugs are getting ironed out. > *********** > > Raziel, Archangel of the Mysteries (Patron of Science) > > >Raziel, in his enthusiasm, has been known to annoy more then one > >Archangel in his time. > As kind of a sideline, it occurs to me Raziel was probably pretty > annoyed himself over Uriel's little crusade...(If not so much against > the other Gods, at least by its including the legendary beasts); maybe > the reason Raziel's still around, after having apparently directly > annoyed God once or twice, is because he was the one who brought this to > His attention...(Which'd probably bump him right onto Lawrence's Hostile > list...) > I didn't actually give this piece of it much thought, to be perfectly honest. Maybe because it's not very important in my game. I'd figure he was not a big friendly with Laurence because I made him sort of a free spirit. Rules, order and all... what's that? > >Dissonance: It is dissonant to keep any arcane or mysterious knowledge > >out of the hands of human beings. It is also dissonant to give > >knowledge which is incorrect, or may be directly harmful to the humans > >it is being imparted to. > What happens when these conflict? (I'd take the second as > overriding, along with the ability to not give a human arcane knowledge > that will directly endanger yourself or Heaven at large, but...) The second would override the first condition, I would think. > >Elohim: > >accessable form. These allow them to add their forces their resonance > >roll when they are analysing data or a logical progression of > >information. > My question here is...when does the Elohim resonance apply to > logical progressions of information anyway? Applying it TO that would > be an interesting Attunement. What about adding Ethereal Forces to > their Resonance when used to determine why a person wants particular > information, and (if they get the 5 or 6 check digit), what they intend > on doing with it... *shrug* Fine with me. I was stuck on this one for a long time. > > >Malakim: > ...Which, s'true, would kind of replace the Malakim attunement, but > I think I like that function a little better on the Elohim anyway; for > the Malakim, my immediate thought is to give them immunity to sorcery, > but having not read the Marches, I don't know how big that is (or > isn't) I wouldn't give them immunity to Sorcery, myself. I mean okay, WHY? And it only protects them from maybe 1/100th of the people they would track down. > ...MaBarry suggests the Malakim go after dabblers, or people who > twist good magic into bad things; perhaps using their Resonance not just > on people, but on magic in general (including artifacts, spells, > effects, etc.) to determine whether it was cast with honorable purpose. > I think I like that one. I like this much better then immunity to Sorcery, but I wonder at the point of using it on objects. An object itself is neither honorable/dishonorable, and "good" objects can be used for bad purposes. It always struck me as a purely human property. > >ARCANE KNOWLEDGE > >For two essence points, this attunement allows the caster to lay their > >hands on a tome, and learn everything that is held between the > >bindings. > All told, from a gaming perspective, I think 2 essence is a bit > steep for speed reading...even extreme speed reading. (Especially since, > as GM, you're probably just going to tell the player, "It's about > ____", rather than actually writing the book for 'em.) I'd suggest > buying the Attunement lets you absorb a book that way just by holding it > for a moment (not just touch, but not more than a couple seconds); with > one Essence, you can absorb information from a stranger medium > (harddrive, say), and for two, you can get comprehension. {Not > necessarily translation, making this most powerful for the Seraphim, > but...comprehension. On the freebie, you pick up the book, smile, set > it down, and walk out of the room to head home and read it in the > leisure of your own brain; at 2 Essence, you immediately know and > understand what's in it. You can also pick up that harddrive > information as actually meaning something, and not just know precisely > the magnetic fluxes, which might be handy. "So, Bob, what's it say?" > "Er...100110101011--" "Shut up, Bob.") Heh. That's a fine change, and I would say go for it. > > >KEYS OF GOD > This is a cool one, though I suppose it rests on the GM including > such things...and we'd like to be able to write in such codes as well, > if necessary. (Assuming that's not strictly God's privilege..) I just imagine a little keyring, jingling around. :) > > >Friend of the Keys > >Master of Arcane Secrets > As to these two..I just presume the Angel has to understand the > subject they're conferring? {Just to avoid that Seraph-conundrum. > "Gee, I'd sure like to have complete understanding of the mystery of > life. Bip! There we go...Tod, explain to me the mystery of life."} Yes, they have to understand the subject. It would help. :) Of course, you have to watch it with those Seraphim who just answer "42", and then stand around looking inscrutable. > > >Relations: > Of curiosity, where do you think Gabriel'd stand? (They've got a > good bit in common, having both been messengers...Gabriel may be > resentful of the fact that when SHE gave out knowledge she'd been told > to, she gets an Inquisition. But way back when RAZIEL gave out > knowledge that even God didn't want these people to have, he hardly even > gets a slap on the wrist...She may also think Raziel makes it a bit too > easy on people, just GIVING them the information like that rather than > inspiring them to work it out on their own...) Yeah, well, Raziel is a punk. :) I think Gabriel would be cheesed, but Raz didn't go around handing out new religions, Yves or not, and he didn't affect anyone on a huge scale. The difference is: Raziel: Tries to hand the Sefer Raziel Hamalach to Adam, because he feels sorry for him, being dumped by Lilith and all. Gabriel: Goes off and starts Islam. Now, there's a magnitude difference here. But, I doubt that would change Gabe's view of things any. > ******************* > > Ghogiel, Demon Prince of the Occult Ghogiel! My buddy, my pal! > > >Ghogiel is a Calabite, a whirlwind of entropy who enjoys the > Hm...I'd almost make him a Djinn, particularly with their ability to > hurt someone they're attuned to only if `asked'; Ghogiel's certainly got > the classic way of being asked to destroy someone's life down. > (Plus, it's almost the traditional Djinn, offering secrets of the > universe that will make your life OH, so much easier...) > {But then, since between us we've worked Ghogiel out as a Djinn, Shedim, > Habbalah, Lilim, and Balseraph...and discarded Impudite mostly because > they've already got too many of those...heck, Calabite's as good as > anything, so, sure.} You can make him out to be anything. I choose Calabite for two reasons: 1. What he inspires leaves a little whirlwind of destruction in his path. Even if it isn't 100% physical, you should go read some SCAMIZDATs for Scientology to see what sort of nastiness he leaves behind. I mean, it's bad, and not on just a personal level. 2. He's the opposite of Raz. So Ofanim -> Calabite, more or less. > > Dissonance: > >enlightenment through the use of the dark secrets they peddle. It is > >also dissonant to encourage a human to leave a group once they have > ANY group? ("Aw, what're you hangin' out with those Angels for? > D'oh!") {I can see it as any group, actually, but I wanted to check.} > Sure, any group. No matter how enlightened. > >Djinn: > Hm..locating generic objects doesn't strike me as falling well into > the Djinn attunement; I'd give the Djinn of the Occult the ability to > make deals wherein if their Attuned doesn't keep his end of the bargain, > it qualifies as giving the Djinn permission to hurt them. The human > accepting the deal would also let the Djinn attune to them without a > roll. I like this alot more. I say make this change. :) > > >Calabim: > I like this one in principal, but the practice of it seems too close > to Calabim of Haagenti...and, again, I just tend to think Princes should > give their own Band something particularly cool. How about adding their > Celestial Forces to using their resonance against anything magical? Sure, what the heck. :) > > >Shedim: > That one works, though we tend to like keeping the Calabim the most > oriented to the sacrificial stuff...(Hey! These Shedim are the ones who > give Gaming a bad name. You thought we wouldn't notice, > didn't you?) Well, I had in my mind that the Shedim should be the nastiest of all the demons of this group. I just kept the Exorcist in mind. He comes down, possesses, and makes them run around killing family pets for "ritual" reasons. "Oh, Lord Satan, another kitty for your greatness." It's solitary, while the Calabite is not. > >PENTAGRAM > Heh heh...I like that one, especially on the assumption that the > Pentagrams they teach sorcerors to use to `bind' them are actually > these...("Absolutely," says the Balseraph, "Standing in this, I CAN'T > harm you. Plus, I have to tell the truth. Ooh, you know that hurts me. > Ooh, ooh. Tell me your bidding, O Great One, so that I can be released > of this torment.") *LAUGH* Yeah, you bet! Balseraphs rule. :) > > >+1 A pack of Tarot cards > Or way too much incense. (MaBarry keeps teasing about a Calabim > Demon of Incense...) Makes me sneeze. I found it amusing that I can summon with the +1 at any time, seeing I carry my cards around. :) > >The Sefer Raziel Hamalach (The Book of the Angel Raziel) > This, mind, doesn't strike so much as an artifact as it does a > supplement... Neat. > *nodnodnod* Well, we'll see what I can cook up. :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 02:53:18 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: IN> Redeeming Shedim: it can be done Hi, Yes, Shedim have a problem if they want to be redeemed: every day they don't make their host do something evil, they gain dissonance, and start racking up the Discord. And of course, convincing an angel that you really feel bad about doing evil when you have to do evil every day is a hell of an uphill challenge. But it can still work. First of all: so a Shedite has to make their host do something selfish, that will harm someone in some way. And they're best starting off with something small, then working their way up to absolute evil, then bailing out and starting again. But who says they have to stick around? They can possess someone, make him blow his nose on the napkin, stick around for the rest of the day and start again the next day. If a Shedite is actively trying to do as little evil as possible, he can. It takes more work, potentially, but it can happen. In fact, given that a Shedite is hardly expected to be able to anticipate all the consequences of its actions, it's possible to do small evils that will ultimately result in a greater good. What if the guy suddenly blowing his nose on the napkin does so in public, during a business lunch, and as a result his evil plan to asset-strip a perfectly good company goes awry? And finally, of course, the Shedite only needs one evil action per day. There's nothing dissonant about doing *good*. A Shedite could inhabit a serial killer with an obsession with cleanliness, spend most of the day helping people out and doing good, then on his way home pee against a wall in a dark alley - measurable harm, contrary to the serial killer's own moral code, but no great shakes compared to what the guy could have done, and what he actually did that day. A player in my forthcoming campaign is a Kyriotate, ex-Shedite of Kobal, Redeemed by Eli, then loaned off to Jean. She'll have oodles of background, will know lots of people (demons included), and will generally be a character I can just hang ludicrous amounts of plot off. I'd like to know what people think about this. Is this possible, or am I being too lenient? Sam - -- There are *my* opinions, dammit, and let no-one say otherwise. Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati Ban the bomb. Save the world for conventional warfare. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:56:53 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Raoul Duke wrote: > -- I'd like some more info, if you don't mind. Why would Andrea > switch sides, and why would Lust be perceived as a more fitting word > than Love for an AA? My own guess: Remember the new theme of Hell is destruction. So the new Adversary is the DP of Death and the others are likewise highly destructive Words. The defectors, like Andre, can't forward their words unless there is a world to forward them in. Destroying the world is not, in itself, in favor of their words. So it makes sense for Andre to defect. As to why he redeems in addition to defecting ... well, ultimately grace is always a bit of a psychological miracle. You'd need to make up some very intense internal dialogue for Andre, to illuminate it in his case. Perhaps he might better be the Archangel of Desire? Less perjorative that "Lust." Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:05:19 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> US Satanism Nathaniel Eliot sayeth that:- > > Well, it's a week late, but I finally got it done. I sent copies > > directly to the people who sent me requests, but I'll be willing > > to post it to the list, if you all would like. Be forwarned- it's > > _long_. > > I'd say send it to the list. If that's vetoed, put me on the list > for it. I'd say send it to the list too, or just email it firect to me instead Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:38:49 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Redeeming Shedim: it can be done > I'd like to know what people think about this. Is this possible, > or am I being too lenient? I like it - it works well within the limits of their powers, and still gives them room to redeem. Makes most redemption look downright easy...those that make it would be minor heroes. Me, I took the easy way out, and gave mine something like the Shedim of Game attunement as part of the backstory. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. - Neil Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:20:47 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Brief Superiors Summary and Notes Redneck Gaijin wrote: > GABRIEL - Weakened but still nominally an Archangel Is tehre a physical you have to pass? Earl W. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:07:42 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Redeeming Shedim: it can be done >Hi, > >Yes, Shedim have a problem if they want to be redeemed: every day they >don't make their host do something evil, they gain dissonance, and start >racking up the Discord. And of course, convincing an angel that you >really feel bad about doing evil when you have to do evil every day is a >hell of an uphill challenge. But it can still work. > Um, Demons about to Redeem don't have to worry about demonic Dissonance or Discord... especially since, as I read it, once you get an Archangel's attention, WHAM, you're either Redeemed or you're toast- which means that Shedim is now a Kyrotiate, Dissonance and Discord is scoured away, and the old Dissonances do not apply. >A player in my forthcoming campaign is a Kyriotate, ex-Shedite of Kobal, >Redeemed by Eli, then loaned off to Jean. She'll have oodles of >background, will know lots of people (demons included), and will >generally be a character I can just hang ludicrous amounts of plot off. > >I'd like to know what people think about this. Is this possible, or am I >being too lenient? > If the character is truly Redeemed, Kyrotiate dissonance applies, not Shedim. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:28:35 -0400 From: "Kirt A. Dankmyer -- aka Loki" Subject: IN> Pagan Soldiers Okay, in _The Marches_ it mentions that Pagan Soldiers can learn Ethereal Songs. Is this in addition, or in place of, being able to learn Corporeal Songs? -Loki - -- Kirt A. Dankmyer --- Academic Computing Specialist http://www.wfu.edu/~dankmyka/ -- (910) 759-4202 -- PGP public key available. For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:05:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Expanded superior write-ups At 2:56 AM +0100 10/18/97, Sam Kington wrote: >We'll still be missing the following: > Eli Nybbas > Janus Valefor > Jean Vapula > Jordi Haagenti > Novalis Andrealphus > Marc That we are. We *are* going to have another Cycle after this one, you know... (5 books, 2-4 Superiors per book...) >Oh, and why won't Jean and Vapula be in the Librum Reliquarium? Seems >like they'd fit right in there (although it does already look fairly >packed). It's packed, and there are other places for those two. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #412 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. 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