From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Thu Oct 23 04:04:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02101 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 04:04:58 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id DAA05405 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 03:56:56 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 03:56:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199710230856.DAA05405@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #425 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, October 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 425 In this digest: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing IN> When words collide Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Return of Uriel? Re: IN> When words collide Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Return of Uriel? Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Re: Escaping dissonance (Was: Re: IN> Re: Redeeming Shedim: it can be done) Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Dream a Little Dream of Me Re: IN> PBEM... well, not. Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Re: IN> B5 Victory Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Return of Uriel? Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - the Northeast States of America Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:55:26 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation >Redneck Gaijin wrote: >Kay so, forget hope, like i said, Despair or Depression would be a >supremely powerfull word in a wrld gone to hell in a handbasket. If it >dosen't belong to a wordbound of Saminga, it deserves its own Dp, if >even an AA can get Depressed...... Well, this is a very good point... very, very good. My only problem with it is that none of the existing DPs want another DP to compete with them for the rulership of Hell. For -now,- unless I hear a compelling reason to change it or learn of a pre-Armageddeon DP of Despair, I'm gonna hand control of the word over to Kronos. If Saminga is pushed off the throne, though, the new occupant will almost definitely want new DPs, with the threat of New Heaven having grown under Saminga's oblivious leadership.... (See, Emily? I'm asking for input here! Let's here some ideas!) Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:59:53 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Dominic, Demon Prince of Cleansing >On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:04:53 -0500 (CDT), redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck >Gaijin) wrote: > >>>>Forgot to list Basic Rites for Dommie. >>>> >>>>BASIC RITES >>>> >>>> * Spend a day (24 hours) in ritual meditation in private, or 8 hours in >>public >>>> * Spend an hour preaching prejudice and hate to a crowd >>>> * Slay a Celestial (+3 Essence, is exempt from the Dissonance requirement) >>> >>>On the last, vessel death or soul death? >>> >>Ooh, good distinction. +1 Essence for vessel death, +3 for soul death. > >JFWIW, Dominic is +3 for vessel death. Gabriel is +3 for "death", whether >vessel or soul isn't specified--I'd guess vessel to match Dominic. Soul >death is *really* hard to manage. > I know. However, if I made Celestial death higher, I'm afraid it'd get absurd. And remember, Dominic wants everything permanently, no doubt about it, -dead.- Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 06:15:19 +0200 From: Jo Hart Subject: IN> When words collide Does anyone have any thoughts about how celestials manage to coexist on the sade 'sides' when they have words that naturally conflict with each other? For example, I'm sure there is an angel who has the word 'Peace', how could it co-exist when there was an AA who claimed the absolute opposite of their word? jo (My first thought was that it would probably be a Mercurian of Michael anyway but it still seems to have arather serious word-clash with a more powerful celestial) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:59:54 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? > I refuse to back down from a flame war. Well, then could you both take this off-list? You complained about the load of messages you got today (in the large bit of flame I snipped) - I got those as well. *Plus* this. I don't mind the constructive stuff; I don't even mind the stuff that cut down my ideas for DV (it is, after all, his pet). This, I mind. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. - Neil Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:59:54 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? > I tend to read stuff that interests me or that I can understand. A > lot of the deeper 'backwards IN' stuff leaves me cold not because > the concept isn't interesting, but because I don't have the > background in Celtic or Hindu or Babylonian or other religions > others have. You can usually find enough to follow it on the net or through your library. If it's loosing you, feel free to ask, too - I know that when I get my IN backwards ideas hammered out, I'd love nothing more than pointing out the reasoning behind every decision I'd made, with copious references... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. - Neil Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:59:54 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation > >Kay so, forget hope, like i said, Despair or Depression would be a > >supremely powerfull word in a wrld gone to hell in a handbasket. If it > >dosen't belong to a wordbound of Saminga, it deserves its own Dp, if > >even an AA can get Depressed...... > > Well, this is a very good point... very, very good. My only problem > with it is that none of the existing DPs want another DP to compete > with them for the rulership of Hell. I get the feeling that Superiors don't really *need* support from above, just that it usually works better that way. Unless the holder of the Iron Throne has a grip to match (and Saminga does *not*), I doubt there's much stopping the Demon of Dispair (assuming he survives) from just becoming an DP - essentially, all he needs to do is learn how to make Servators and grant Attunements and rites. The first two he may already have known... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. - Neil Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:59:54 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Return of Uriel? > >Redneck, it might work - it definately would be a way for Heaven to > >be freed from demon control, at least. And then I have a feeling > >he'd cut a swath straight to Vapula's door - after all, David is his > >creation (at least, I assume so - he's old enough that no other > >Superior would have had time) and the other Malakim are nominally > >his, as well. He would probably die trying (in fact, for the sake of > >plot, that might be the best thing) but he might give New Heaven a > >chance. > > Is this the same Uriel who looked at dragons and said, "I don't > think they belong. They'll have to go."? I meant he might give them a chance for survival. I doubt he's going to like them very much, but he has bigger fish to fry. And right now he has cause to fry them, where he couldn't before - it is Armageddon. > Remember, Uriel was the hardest hard-liner of the old guard. He was > the original commander of Heaven's armies opposing the Rebels. > Somehow I don't think he's willing to forgive even a Redeemed > Lucifer, much -less- accept three Demon Princes(s) who haven't > Redeemed. > > And the Angels who welcomed this evil into Heaven? Nope, sorry, they > don't belong. > > They'll have to go. That'll probably be on his agenda after he frees his Malakim and cleans out Hell's Forces in Heaven. Of course, he probably realizes he won't survive to do so, but such are his priorities. > Redneck (from what I gather, Uriel really isn't learning much aside > from shorthand in the Upper Heavens) Not necessarily - he probably has learned to choose the group that are active enemies first. It also depends on how you view God, too - if God is a hopped up, power hungry Ethereal, like He is in my mind, than Uriel made a tactical blunder by forcing two seperate enemies to ally. If God is nicer, OTOH, than Uriel's actions have less basis, and the more inflexible he has to be to do them. From the standpoint you are using, yes, he's as worse than Dominic (pre-Fall, or post if you're feeling nasty). Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. - Neil Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:06:02 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> When words collide >Does anyone have any thoughts about how celestials manage to coexist on the >sade 'sides' when they have words that naturally conflict with each other? > >For example, I'm sure there is an angel who has the word 'Peace', how >could it co-exist when there was an AA who claimed the absolute opposite of >their word? Technically, there is one; as I understand it, Novalis' word of Flowers includes Peace. She and Michael would have a bit of friction, but they manage to get along. By a similar token, Baal's word, 'The War,' includes unity among demons, sometimes enforced. (Alternately, you could attribute 'Unity' to 'The Game' and Asmodeus.) Malphas, OTOH, works to set demons against each other. Asmodeus and Malphas' relations are pretty professional; Baal and Malphas, on the other hand, is a mini-War just waiting to happen. So I guess your answer would be, 'they have problems if they're angels, they have vendettas if they're demons.' My $.02. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:38:43 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? >> I tend to read stuff that interests me or that I can understand. A >> lot of the deeper 'backwards IN' stuff leaves me cold not because >> the concept isn't interesting, but because I don't have the >> background in Celtic or Hindu or Babylonian or other religions >> others have. > >You can usually find enough to follow it on the net or through your >library. If it's loosing you, feel free to ask, too - I know that >when I get my IN backwards ideas hammered out, I'd love nothing more >than pointing out the reasoning behind every decision I'd made, >with copious references... > And I'll happily ask questions, and take my medicine. (and BTW, keep those DV ideas comin'... a couple of ideas are comin' through...) Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:47:42 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Return of Uriel? >> Is this the same Uriel who looked at dragons and said, "I don't >> think they belong. They'll have to go."? > >I meant he might give them a chance for survival. I doubt he's going >to like them very much, but he has bigger fish to fry. And right now >he has cause to fry them, where he couldn't before - it is >Armageddon. If this were Michael instead of Uriel, I'd buy it. Michael was a pragmatist. Uriel, last I looked, was an idealist. >> Remember, Uriel was the hardest hard-liner of the old guard. He was >> the original commander of Heaven's armies opposing the Rebels. >> Somehow I don't think he's willing to forgive even a Redeemed >> Lucifer, much -less- accept three Demon Princes(s) who haven't >> Redeemed. >> >> And the Angels who welcomed this evil into Heaven? Nope, sorry, they >> don't belong. >> >> They'll have to go. > >That'll probably be on his agenda after he frees his Malakim and >cleans out Hell's Forces in Heaven. Of course, he probably realizes >he won't survive to do so, but such are his priorities. Hm. This sheds a new light on things. What if- just what if- Uriel asked God, and was permitted, to go on a rescue mission... only Uriel has -no intention of coming back?- Uriel, in effect, asked God to become a sort of sacrifice, striking against Hell to give the other surviving Archangels time to free the Malakim and get back out of Hell... Congratulations, Mr. Eliot, you've prodded me into seeing at least one way where Uriel could fit into DV. (Now, while you're doing an adventure seed or somesuch around Uriel, I gotta figure out what to do with a couple hundred more old-guard Malakim... }:-{D ) >It also depends on how you view God, too - if God is a hopped up, >power hungry Ethereal, like He is in my mind, than Uriel made a >tactical blunder by forcing two seperate enemies to ally. I'm not playing DV as IN Backwards, no. I'm going for the God-is-ineffable-leaning-towards-benevolent here. >>From the standpoint you are using, yes, he's as worse than Dominic >(pre-Fall, or post if you're feeling nasty). > I'm not feeling terribly nasty tonight. }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:48:45 EST From: PERRY Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? >>It would just be so *funny* for heaven to _finally_ win, and then be >>totally clueless. > > I can just see this... > >>Laurence: Well, I guess we should rebuild. Right! This is going to be done >> quickly and efficiently! Anyone seen Eli? > > Eli? Quick and efficient? Doesn't efficiency counteract >creativity? Maybe that's why he's hiding... Doesn't want all the hard work >to interfere with his creative process... > > >Peace, > >Charybdis GreyDragon > >** God is an Iron ** HA!!! :) Oh, sorry. Couldn't help it. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "You know, Lucky Charms are the best antacid." "Yeah, it's because those mashmallows aren't really marshmallows, they're chalk." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 07:04:50 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: Escaping dissonance (Was: Re: IN> Re: Redeeming Shedim: it can be done) On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:02:21 +0100, Sam Kington wrote: >I don't think it should be like that - sit around wondering if you did >enough this day, the clock strikes midnight, the daily rush of Essence >comes in and, oh damn, what's this? a note of Dissonance comes in as >well. There are, IIRC, two types of dissonance (Choir/Band or Superior): > 1) You get dissonance for doing something you're not supposed to > 2) You get dissonance if you don't do at least [foo] every so often > >Now, if you go up against 1) and you put your foot in it, you know >straight away... I'm not sure you do necessarily. Suppose you're a Cherub, and gain dissonance for harming your attuned. You disarm his gun because he's clumsy and might shoot himself. So far so good. Later he's in a situation where he needs the gun for self-defence, and he dies because it's been disarmed. Should the Cherub get dissonance then? What if a Mercurian plants a landmine? Does he get dissonance when it kills a human, however much later that is? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 02:18:00 EST From: PERRY Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed: Dream a Little Dream of Me >Perry M. Lloyd asks: > >> What _does_ hapless mean, anyway? > >Means out of hap. "Hap" is an old word for luck. "Happy" used to >mean "lucky," and "happenstance" means "random occurence." > >Earl Cool. :) - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "You know, Lucky Charms are the best antacid." "Yeah, it's because those mashmallows aren't really marshmallows, they're chalk." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:29:54 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> PBEM... well, not. > > >Sometimes keeping notes is the only hope I have. (This is true for games > > I keep some key notes... But they tend to be on major plot elements, not > > on the nitpicking details that are the bane of my PBEM existence... > Hmm, yeah, this happens to me to, I guess. > I do tend to keep summaries of the game, though. This is as much for me I have to admit, THE big advantage I've found to PBeM over live gaming is the ability to save -everything-. (Heck, disk space is cheap these days..) Though it can be problematic when you've got players interacting directly...as came up in this conversation before, there's the tendancy for conversations to follow three different tangents simultaneously, which usually isn't a problem for the GAME, but can be very obnoxious to try to sort out to any kind of coherent chronology... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 02:30:29 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation >> >Kay so, forget hope, like i said, Despair or Depression would be a >> >supremely powerfull word in a wrld gone to hell in a handbasket. If it >> >dosen't belong to a wordbound of Saminga, it deserves its own Dp, if >> >even an AA can get Depressed...... >> >> Well, this is a very good point... very, very good. My only problem >> with it is that none of the existing DPs want another DP to compete >> with them for the rulership of Hell. > >I get the feeling that Superiors don't really *need* support from >above, just that it usually works better that way. It's not support so much as -protection.- Also, since Superiors are generally an order of magnitude more powerful than a Worded Celestial, there may be some extra infusion of power involved. In this case, the Demon Prince of Despair would be working his way around Kronos... probably the least hostile to such movement, but still not anxious to see a possible Destiny at work. >holder of the Iron Throne has a grip to match (and Saminga does >*not*), > Hm. The Granite Throne (which I made up for image purposes) has grown into something more sinister. CELESTIAL ARTIFACT: THE GRANITE THRONE SONG: Unknown FUNCTIONS: Reliquiary (level unknown, but horrifically high) Cost: about 6 billion character points (yeah, SURE your starting character can have it. }:-{D ) The Granite Throne was created by Lucifer at the height of his triumph (retro-change continuity if need be) to secure his place as Supreme Being of the Universe. The full extent of its enclosed Songs and powers are unknown, but one thing is known- the Essence which prayers used to send to God, or which goes unclaimed each day, is being funneled through hundreds of tiny anchors throughout all the Realms into the Throne, usable by the being attuned to the Throne no matter where they are. One thing is obvious, though- the person who sits in the Granite Throne by right may impose their will on any demon, anywhere, anytime. There is a catch, however. First off, the attunement to the Throne requires an investment of 50- that is not a misprint, FIFTY- Essence per 24 hours. The person who claims the throne will get this back- the Throne holds such immense Essence reserves that 50 is just a tiny drop in the bucket. Still, this fifty Essence cannot come from another Reliquiary- the claimant must touch the Throne themselves and spend 50 Essence from their internal supply every 24 hours. Finally, the Throne may only be used by beings of Demonic nature. An Angel or non-Celestial attempting to use the Throne will gain two points of Dissonance and 2D Soul damage as a result of the feedback- and the Essence is still burned. As you might guess, this pretty much limits its usefulness to the most powerful of the powerful- those Demon Princes who can use souls in Hell as a source for Essence. Newcomers like Dominic may have the capacity, but not the resources to hand, for an attempt. Lucifer gave up his attunement to the Throne when he Redeemed. Saminga (who in his delusion is both smarter and dumber than he appears) rushed down to the Throne Room to make his claim, and now sits almost constantly on that Throne, the saner corners of his mind knowing that, now that he holds the prize, letting go would be a suicidal act. Even if he is the most powerful Prince even without the throne, the others could (and likely would) gang up on him at the first opportunity. (Note: If a Preserver PC sees the Granite Throne, something is VERY wrong. If a Demon PC sees it, they've done something very good, something very bad, or perhaps both. Either way, you DON'T want it in your average campaign. If you do use it, your players better be part of a major Superior-led battle... ) Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:44:54 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? > > And just consider that for a moment. Lucifer's defeated, the > >hoards of Hell scattered to the Symphony...and Heaven immediately starts > >purging everyone who's ever voiced dissent? I give it ten seconds before > >another third of the Host breaks off, and we have a new Hell united under > >Gabriel and Lilith...hm..actually, I'll work on this a little... > Cool... send me a copy when you have it done, k? Well, there's, what, four of us on this now, that have officially announced? (Though, except for Perry bringing up the idea, I said it first. Hah.) But, yeah, I'll be sure to put up my ideas when I get them written out...(Who, me? Keep my mouth shut? Umm...yeah...just as long as I can still type. ) [I don't know...I turned the brightness knob all the way up until it broke. I mean, the bloody Care Bears were threatening to puke, it's such a bright place...'course, with all that bright light, no one saw the razors. Heh heh heh.] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:37:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> B5 Victory > > Just to throw another idea in the pot: > > What if the *humans* win Armageddon? > Knee-jerk reaction: How? Heck, if humans could learn a bit ABOUT the Celestials...my first thought was "How?", too - the easy way is by default ("they pummel each other to bloody pulps, and humans are all that's LEFT except for one dazed Reliever named Ted."), but... It's not like Celestials, on the whole, aren't easy to manipulate, once you know how to spot 'em...(Okay, my Seraph of War keyed in real fast that the easiest is a Cherub who's attuned to you, but...hold a few Mercurians hostage. What're they going to do about it? A mobbed Mercurian has a choice: go down, or go Down. Catch a Seraph and interrogate him...Ofanim are easy to lead into ambushes...) {Heck, even the demons aren't immune...catch a Balseraph in a paradox, say, while Djinn and Impudites have very nearly the same problems as their counterparts...the Calabim and Malakim could be annoying, but just put 'em in the same room, and hey presto - no more annoying Calabim or Malakim. No more room, either, most likely, but...small price to pay.} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:59:18 -0600 (MDT) From: Kingsley Lintz Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Bright Victory? > >Actually, Donald and I have been tring to find time to finish off the > >ideas we've been tossing back and forth about what would happen if the > >Pagan Gods won over both Heaven and Hell (wait until they've weakened each > Gray Victory? I'll put that on the INC too. I'm an equal-opportunity *sigh* I don't have the artistic talent for it; I just have the picture of the old Gods, Odin in front, gathered up in front of the Pearly Gates, knocking `politely'. ("*ahem* Remember us? Anyone seen Uriel around lately? Thought not...") [And then there's Nox, over in the marches. "Time to say goodnight, Blandine. Don't worry, I'll put you with Beleth. She's calmed down a LOT since I took her..."] {'Course, what I REALLY want is a Plaid Victory.} (Or a purplish greenish Victory with hot pink polka-dots and white spaztik stripes. Yeah. Presumably when Eli gets all the other Superiors on that hot new stuff he's worked up...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 04:04:23 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Return of Uriel? > >> Is this the same Uriel who looked at dragons and said, "I don't > >> think they belong. They'll have to go."? > > > >I meant he might give them a chance for survival. I doubt he's going > >to like them very much, but he has bigger fish to fry. And right now > >he has cause to fry them, where he couldn't before - it is > >Armageddon. > > If this were Michael instead of Uriel, I'd buy it. Michael was a > pragmatist. Uriel, last I looked, was an idealist. I still doubt he's going to attack a group that is at least nominally on his side until he's dealt with the much bigger problems of Vapula and Saminga. > What if- just what if- Uriel asked God, and was permitted, to go on > a rescue mission... only Uriel has -no intention of coming back?- > > Uriel, in effect, asked God to become a sort of sacrifice, striking > against Hell to give the other surviving Archangels time to free the > Malakim and get back out of Hell... That would be essentially his idea anyway - no way is he going to let Vapula take his Malakim, and no way is he going to pull back while Saminga is still a viable entity. So his agreement with God is pretty moot anyway - he's not coming back. The fact that he provides cover for the other AA's is secondary, too - he is there primarily as the sword of God, avenging the torture of his Malakim. > Congratulations, Mr. Eliot, you've prodded me into seeing at least > one way where Uriel could fit into DV. Thats the only way I can see him in DV, too - he's too hard-line to support New Heaven, and too powerful to be running around. Plus, it fits his character, and closes the book on him rather nicely. So, what do I win? > (Now, while you're doing an adventure seed or somesuch around Uriel, > I gotta figure out what to do with a couple hundred more old-guard > Malakim... }:-{D ) I win...more work. ;-) I'll work on this one - it may be more of a story piece than a seed (I can't see much players can do, except maybe use the distraction he provides as cover), but it'll be fun anyway. > >It also depends on how you view God, too - if God is a hopped up, > >power hungry Ethereal, like He is in my mind, than Uriel made a > >tactical blunder by forcing two seperate enemies to ally. > > I'm not playing DV as IN Backwards, no. I'm going for the > God-is-ineffable-leaning-towards-benevolent here. Or maybe God as saddened creator, letting the Universe kill itself... > >>From the standpoint you are using, yes, he's as worse than Dominic > >(pre-Fall, or post if you're feeling nasty). > > I'm not feeling terribly nasty tonight. }:-{D Then he's a vindictive SOB, but luckily for New Heaven he's got a lot of bigger, legitimate targets to be vindictive on. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. - Neil Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 04:09:50 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation > >> Well, this is a very good point... very, very good. My only problem > >> with it is that none of the existing DPs want another DP to compete > >> with them for the rulership of Hell. > > > >I get the feeling that Superiors don't really *need* support from > >above, just that it usually works better that way. > > It's not support so much as -protection.- Also, since Superiors are > generally an order of magnitude more powerful than a Worded > Celestial, there may be some extra infusion of power involved. Despair just got a nice shot of power anyway... > In this case, the Demon Prince of Despair would be working his way > around Kronos... probably the least hostile to such movement, but > still not anxious to see a possible Destiny at work. Destiny how? > >holder of the Iron Throne has a grip to match (and Saminga does > >*not*), > > Hm. The Granite Throne (which I made up for image purposes) has > grown into something more sinister. Whoop - Granite Throne. Though, being from NH (the granite state) iron seems a little more intimidating. > CELESTIAL ARTIFACT: THE GRANITE THRONE Icky, my friend, icky. That's all I have to say. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com I seem to have forgotten what families are actually for...Families seem to be a form of SM relationships without safewords. - Neil Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 03:20:17 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - the Northeast States of America New York City is a huge circular bay with dozens of tiny rocky islands, outcroppings, and half-submerged wrecks of skyscrapers, steel beams and concrete hanging just beneath the surface. Washington, D. C. is a burnt-out husk of a city, its part of the Symphony ringing still from an intense magical pounding equalled only by the Plain of Megiddo itself. Pittsburg, Pennsylvania is a walled fortress, the only exit via the Ohio River, cut off from all other routes by hostile Pennsylvania Dutch with a passionate hatred of technology and a justified respect for the old superstitions. From Buffalo to Providence, Bangor to Worcester, however, a small fraction of the United States has survived the devastating battle of Armageddeon, and with a provisional capitol in Boston, a provisional Constitution written in pencil, and a provisional President who's in reality a Baron of Factions, the Northeast States of America has committed itself to the proposition that government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall be avoided at all costs. The current Northeast States of America government has representatives from Pennsylvania (mostly the Wilkes-Barre area and Erie), Philadelphia still alive with riots and street-to-street fighting), New York state (everything north of White Plains is still above sea level), Connecticut (the eastern half), Rhode Island, Massachussets, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. The acting President, former Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert Johnston, is in reality a very powerful Servitor of Malphas, having used his inpenetrable Role and his demonic abilities to manipulate the United States government very subtly from within. (He wasn't the only one, from either side of the War, to do this, but in DV he was the most successful.) Having had warning of the battle, he timed a visit 'to his old constituency' in Newport while the battle unfolded. Having set himself up as a hero and as the highest surviving person in the old American line of succession, it was only a short step to claiming emergency powers as Acting President and bringing the USA under martial law. Aside from Texas (which does not acknowledge Johnston's government or actions as legitimate), the Northeastern States of America is the largest remaining segment of pre-Doomsday America to survive as a political entity. Johnston claims that his government has authority over the whole USA, but much of the remaining city-states and rural government structure either cannot maintain communications with the Northeast, does not believe Johnston's a legitimate leader, or just has too much on their hands surviving to worry about orders from a far-distant capitol. Life is hard, but better than other places, within the NSA. Food, water, electricitity, fuel, and raw materials are all rationed, most of the surviving loyal men between 16 and 45 have been drafted, and one needs passes and papers to move across county lines. Getting into the NSA involves an arcane bureaucratic process and holding camps which make the Haitian repatriation camps look like a Sunday school camping trip. Getting -out- of the NSA... well, you don't. Why? Johnston has his demonic mind on expanding his little puppet government, by force of arms. The eastern Canadian provinces, with the exception of Quebec City, are wide open for conquest. Johnston could march down around New York Bay into Pennsylvania and New Jersey, move up the partly functional St. Lawrence Seaway and land in the Midwest, or use his small remaining wet navy to assault coastal areas all across the Atlantic. The only thing really standing in his way, from a human point of view, is his fuel supply. He cannot afford to attack Texas, not yet. Conquest over Texas would not only lead to a drawn-out war he cannot fight, it would draw the attention of whoever has that Angelic tether there. Given that, and given that ocean voyages are no longer safe from sea monsters and wild weather conditions, his only option remaining is to reclaim rural Pennsylvania from bandits and Amish and drain the last dregs of the old Pennsylvania oil fields dry. With that extra fuel reserve in hand, he can move on to more ambitious plans... ROBERT JOHNSTON alias ROSHTANDARIEL, Balseraph Baron of Factions, Demon of Republican Democracy FORCES: All forces at 6 or in excess. PCs will need support to attack Johnston directly. Vessels: 3X Human/4, Charisma + 3 (leadership) Role: Politician/6 Status 6 (world leader) Skills: (all at level 6) Emote, Fast Talk, Dodge, Lie, Computer Operation, Escape, Knowledge (American history)(American government)(American law)(American politics)(Rhode Island politics)(Robert Johnston), Savoir-Faire, Seduction Songs: (all at level 6) all songs of Charm, all songs of Entropy, all songs of Form, Corporeal Healing, Numinus Corpus: Wings, Claws, Fangs, Tongue, Possession, all songs Projection, all songs Shields, Corporeal TOngues Attunements: Balseraph of Factions, Habbalite of Factions, Polarize Special Rite: (+1) Pervert the system of government to do something specifically prohibited by its own laws The creature which currently poses as Robert Johnston is in reality one of Malphas' immediate subordinates, a mid- to high-level Worded Demon limited by his Word. Johnston gained his word during the Gilded Age, when he took credit for making evil monopolies, then for breaking them and inflicting short-term evils on the populace. In both cases, Humanity did it on their own, but Johnston's past is filled with enough evil service to Factions that he'd earned a Word long before. Johnston is chafing under Malphas' orders- split the United States government apart from within, then sieze control and paralyze it at the critical time. Early on in his guise as Representative and later Senator from Rhode Island, he used his abilities and knowledge of the two-party oligarchy to paralyze and polarize the government while at the same time leaving the people apathetic to what their indifferent government actually does. Now that he's got a taste of true power, though, he has his own agenda; enslave Humanity from within, by leading a military and Demonic campaign to conquer the world. There's a lot in his way, of course, most notably the simple reality that New England is not capable of conquering the rest of the world by itself. He's willing to rise to the challenge, however, and in six months time he'll have a fresh army of a million men ready to march wherever he chooses, and enough food and supplies stockpiled for one good quick push into either Canada or Pennsylvania. From there... the sky's the limit. (NOTE: Johnston is an example of a high-level Worded Celestial. His power is great enough to where it approaches Superior levels. Knowingly going directly against him is, bluntly, suicidal. (If you're playing a Paranoia-type game, that might work to your advantage. }:-{D ) In any case, be very careful with this powerful an NPC, and if the PCs are determined to reveal him or destroy him, make VERY sure they have EVERY angle covered before letting them get away with it...) Redneck (I just may have created an NPC Munchkin with this one...) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 03:52:20 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] General Observation >> >I get the feeling that Superiors don't really *need* support from >> >above, just that it usually works better that way. >> >> It's not support so much as -protection.- Also, since Superiors are >> generally an order of magnitude more powerful than a Worded >> Celestial, there may be some extra infusion of power involved. > >Despair just got a nice shot of power anyway... True. But did he get enough to claim Princehood on his own and -keep- it? >> In this case, the Demon Prince of Despair would be working his way >> around Kronos... probably the least hostile to such movement, but >> still not anxious to see a possible Destiny at work. > >Destiny how? > Well, Destiny as opposed to Fate (which would be an up-and-coming demon getting swatted back down or eaten by Haagenti). Kronos would be very much of mixed emotions about this new Prince-candidate... others, like Malphas or Furfur, would want him dead with a singleminded passion. >> >holder of the Iron Throne has a grip to match (and Saminga does >> >*not*), >> >> Hm. The Granite Throne (which I made up for image purposes) has >> grown into something more sinister. > >Whoop - Granite Throne. Though, being from NH (the granite state) >iron seems a little more intimidating. Possibly, I just picked granite because after obsidian it's my favorite igneous rock, and it's a lot stronger than obsidian is. >> CELESTIAL ARTIFACT: THE GRANITE THRONE > >Icky, my friend, icky. That's all I have to say. > Hey, it's not there for a PC playtoy. It's the object which can give a lesser creature than God or Fallen Lucifer the power of the Supreme Being. The Essence is just the most obvious bennie; the Throne can do all sorts of other things, if you can just claim it, hold it, and figure out how it works. As such, it's going to be an absolute power hog- it's meant for beings whose power levels make the Throne look reasonable in comparison. Any PC who - -tries- to take the Throne, IMHO, deserves a fitting character death. ^_- (HE WAS AN IDIOT. SO I ATE HIM. BUUUUUURP.) Redneck (*BED*, dammit) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #425 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.