From owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Tue Nov 4 22:10:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA22333 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 22:10:31 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA02810 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 21:39:43 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 21:39:43 -0600 Message-Id: <199711050339.VAA02810@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #457 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@LISTS.IO.COM Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@LISTS.IO.COM Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, November 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 457 In this digest: Re: IN> [DV] M!ch!gan Re: IN> Re Chiliasm Re: IN> Hebrew in IN and fluff. Re: IN> [Dark Victory] K.K. Re: Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast Re: IN> [DV] M!ch!gan IN> Re: IN OGRE Re: IN> Fighting and forces Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Archival and Places Re: IN> About Shedim... Re: IN> [DV] (Fluff) LITHEROY LIVES! Re: IN> IN: Dice questions. Re: IN> Millenium's End Re: IN> Hebrew in IN and fluff. Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast Re: IN> About Shedim... Re: IN> About Shedim... Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Archival and Places IN> Re: DarkAges Review ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 02:59:25 -0500 From: "Steven Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> [DV] M!ch!gan I've been having some e-mail difficulties, and jusst got this off the SJGames site. >As for all the cities... *whistle* That's a lot of cities. Are all of these >bigger than 100,000 people pre-Apocalypse? Umm, no, they're jusst all the ones marked with yellow "urban areas" on my 1990 Michigan Department of Transportation map. >How much of the Michigan Militia went with the state government, and how >much with General Smith? Militia chapters in Kent, Ottawa (parts), Allegan, and Barry counties are mostly with General Smith. The chapters in Bay, Midland, Saginaw, Isabella, Genesee, and parts of neighboring counties are mostly with the "State Government". Everybody else is localized. >Who -is- General Smith anyway? Wouldn't you like to know :-). Seriously, General Smith is nothing more than a human with a very bright Destiny, a very dark Fate, a very charismatic voice, and an instinctive cunning. He uses the false name and title to project an aura of being an ordinary-type guy who can get things done. But the Governor (I've decided on the name Mary Ford for her) is sure General Smith a servant of Hell, and acts accordingly. The policies Smith lately has been implementing (under the advice of a seductive and intelligent Habblah of Malphas) have not alleviated that impression. >How are all these cities getting supplied with food, fuel, electricity, >replacement ammunition, manufactured goods? Statewide, electricity comes from pre-Apocalypse gas turbines and the fuel for them comes from the gas and oil wells (mostly concentrated on the Michigan and Huron shores). Manufactured products in southern Michigan are largely made locally, and trade between the cities does occur on a lower level. For food, you go 50 feet outside of the city limits to where the farms begin. Michigan does grow the widest variety of crops of any U.S. state (or so claimed the "Little Known Facts About Michigan" booklet I got in ~1988). More specifically, the "State of Michigan" includes Dow Chemical Co. of Midland, Michigan, which now supplies both smokeless and black powder. The bullets themselves are made on machines that either already existed locally or were made with the tool-and-die shops of Bay City, Saginaw, Midland, and Flint. I know less about Grand Rapids' capacity, but they do manufacture furniture and appliances pre-Apocalypse. Port Huron gets what it can't make from the "State of Michigan" and Toronto via rails, roads, and lake shipping (as one of the three US-Canada border points between Minnesota and New York, the rail connections were especially good, and are largely useable) Adrian is dependent on the manufacturing center of Toledo, and is probably ultimately unviable. Same with most of the non-destroyed cities north of Bay City, and Jackson. Kalamazoo is questionable. It has metal and pharmaceutical industries, however, and perhaps sufficient links to Grand Rapids. >Was Lansing's disaster coincidence? Nope. David did it when Infernal victory seemed inevitable, feeling that the elected state government was mostly either corrupt or soft, and that Michigan would be better off in the hands of "his" people (the Secratary of State, the Michigan Militia, and a few important people who backed General Smith). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 08:26:54 -0500 From: The Other Chris Subject: Re: IN> Re Chiliasm Ijon Tichy wrote: > Perhaps, if there's interest, I'll gather up the facts and publish an > adventure seed. > > Anyone? I'm interested. Go for it (anything to avoid having to do the research myself!). TOC (AKA Caustiel, Archangel of Sarcasm) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 08:32:46 -0800 From: "Chuck Ryan" Subject: Re: IN> Hebrew in IN and fluff. nothing personal and normaly I wouldn't mind but your date error is sereasly messing with my file system could you correct it please ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> [Dark Victory] K.K. > >Well, she has one thing going for her. > > > >She's DV Canon. > > > >Her part will be made a bit more clear in 'Heavenly Laughter,' if Beth is > >willing. > > Of *course* I'm willing! Cool. I made canon! (Well, I want to thank > Em for some of the stuff *we've* been talking about. It helped > me write that.) That ya muchly. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:02:57 -0500 (EST) From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse In a message dated 11/3/97 8:48:12 PM, Redneck, et al., wrote: >>>And what about all the volcanoes around that area? I know Mt. St. Helens >>>isn't the only one... >>> >>I don't remember. I can think of about 5-6 in the Oregon/Washington area >>but there are probably more. Most of the mountains are uplift mountains >>rather than volcanic. >> >Last I looked, uplift mountains -are- volcanic, the magma just cooled before >it broke the surface. > >Anyway, I keep getting quoted the numbers 'dozens' and 'hundreds' when I >look up volcanoes on the Northwest coast. The Cascades are loaded with 'em- >I remember that from my geography class. OK, here's what I remember: Uplift mountain ranges (In this case, the Olympic Range and the Cascade Range) are not volcanic, but tectonic. However, because of their nature, they are much more likely to contain volcanic mountains. The difference between "5-6" and "dozens" and "hundreds" is categories. The currently active volcanoes in Washington and Oregon, if I remember correctly, are: Mt. Baker, Mt. Ranier, Mt. St. Helens, Mt. Adams and Mt. Hood. (I think Mt. Shasta, the last of the actives in the Cascades, is in CA...) That's the five or six. There are dozens of dormant volcanoes, and hundreds of extinct volcanoes (the other two categories of volcanoes), so everyone's right (more or less...) Mark(Who is nervous about living in Seattle, now.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:19:41 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast >> >That might cause problems.... I'm assuming that they'll be able to survive >> >the winter or do they migrate? >> > >> They migrate a bit, but snow doesn't bother them much. 'Raptors are >> warm-blooded. > >So are we, and running around with no clothing in snowy conditions >ain't good for us. They lack fur or heavy fat layers to trap body >heat - either they stay in a warm place, or they (most likely) die. Who said they don't have fat layers? }:-{D >> >Um... They'd make them. I don't even think that they'd have to resort to >> >black powder. There are probably plenty of people there and in northern >> >Idaho who can make modern gun poweder. Then there are the natives who may >> >have other kinds of help. >> >> Well, thing here is, melting lead is easy, making powder is easy, >> but manufacturing cartridges and percussion caps isn't quite so >> easy. > >Cartridges can be rehammered and refilled. I don't know enough about >guns to say if the percussion caps problem has a back-woods solution, >though. If you have someone who can produce large quantities of mercury fulminate, you're in business. >> As someone else has pointed out, Vancouver City is sitting right >> beneath a volcano. >> >> So it's crispy critter. > >You've said that about a lot of cities, more or less. Did every bad >thing that was geologically possible happen, or have some cities that >were near faults or volcanoes survived? > Pretty near. The African Rift Valley is wider now, with water rushing in faster than ever through the hot springs on the north end. The Ring of Fire ls -literally- a ring of fire, running from New Zealand to Alaska to Tierra Del Fuego. Arabia and India got off fairly easy, though, tetonically speaking, as did most of Europe away from Italy and the eastern Mediterranean islands. Any city near a volcano with an active magma chamber got hit to some extent. Coastal cities had to contend with high tides and occasionally tidal waves, but these subsided after the first couple of days. Earthquake-prone areas suffered anywhere from modest Force 5 quakes (South America) on up to Force 10 and above quakes (California, Missouri, Uganda). And, of course, there were wars and plagues and disasters and angels and demons duking it out... ... remember, half of the world's human population is dead. That's 3,000,000,000 people. Has to come from somewhere... :( Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:36:23 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> [DV] M!ch!gan >>As for all the cities... *whistle* That's a lot of cities. Are all of >these >>bigger than 100,000 people pre-Apocalypse? > >Umm, no, they're jusst all the ones marked with yellow "urban areas" on >my 1990 Michigan Department of Transportation map. Aaaah. >>How are all these cities getting supplied with food, fuel, electricity, >>replacement ammunition, manufactured goods? > >Statewide, electricity comes from pre-Apocalypse gas turbines and the >fuel for them comes from the gas and oil wells (mostly concentrated on >the Michigan and Huron shores). Manufactured products in southern >Michigan are largely made locally, and trade between the cities does >occur on a lower level. For food, you go 50 feet outside of the city >limits to where the farms begin. Michigan does grow the widest >variety of crops of any U.S. state (or so claimed the "Little Known >Facts About Michigan" booklet I got in ~1988). True, but: (1) Electricity and fuel have to travel over physical distances. Unless each city has its own power plant (which it could, I'll admit), they could be cut off from power by hostile neighbors... or have their fuel supplies roadblocked. >More specifically, the "State of Michigan" includes Dow Chemical Co. >of Midland, Michigan, which now supplies both smokeless and black >powder. The bullets themselves are made on machines that either >already existed locally or were made with the tool-and-die shops of >Bay City, Saginaw, Midland, and Flint. Coolness. So long as Dow can keep supplied with mercury or whatever chemicals they use in the primer for the percussion cap, Michigan will be in bullets- maybe even exporting. >Port Huron gets what it can't make from the "State of Michigan" and >Toronto via rails, roads, and lake shipping (as one of the three >US-Canada border points between Minnesota and New York, the rail >connections were especially good, and are largely useable) True enough, though I doubt the Huron-Erie connection on the St. Laurence Seaway is working... >>Was Lansing's disaster coincidence? > >Nope. David did it when Infernal victory seemed inevitable, feeling >that the elected state government was mostly either corrupt or soft, >and that Michigan would be better off in the hands of "his" people >(the Secratary of State, the Michigan Militia, and a few important >people who backed General Smith). > Whoa. That sounds way extreme for David, destroying a whole city to take out a few hundred people. Redneck (sounds solid, though, for the most part; it's in) Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | Do not taunt Happy Fun Belial. http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | * * * c/o White Lightning Productions | "I love the sweet smell of http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | humiliation in the morning!" Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- Kobal reaffirms himself http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 14:14:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: IN OGRE At 9:02 PM -0600 11/3/97, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: >Kyrios of Jean just git *Really* obnoxious. > > Thanks Beth, You're welcome. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 14:41:55 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fighting and forces At 11:04 PM -0700 11/3/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> At 7:03 PM -0700 11/1/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> [Claws] >> > I read it as just having a +1 Power, but consider that with only 1 >> >point in it, you're going to have a hard time invoking the stupid > Incidentally, I re-read it and looked at the words AFTER, "a Power >of +1" and noticed that they were, "..for every level of this ability", so >as near as I can tell, it's both. If you've got Claws/6, you attack with >a Power of 6... That's how I'd read it... (Lessee, Malakite of Fire, Claws/6, Celestial Forces 4...) >> >dance bit, but also because you don't have a very good roll for it. >> >(C'mon, a basic Angel with CorpF3 is going to have to get a 4 or less..) >> This is why you do the song and dance routine some half-hour or more >> before you think you're going to need it. (My character wanders through > Which is dandy when you THINK you're going to need it, but what >about, say, an hour before you're ready to go out, when some Cherub thug >beats down your door? Oh, well, true -- but who has to be "reactive" all the time? I have a very proactive character in some areas. ("We went looking for trouble, we found trouble, trouble ran away, we came home.") >("Time out, darnit!" "Er, hey, before you beat me >to a pulp, how about I...sing for you?") {We're also wondering just how >these song and dance routines come out. MaBarry's proposing "Camptown >Races" (rather, "Camptown Fingernails"). I'm edging for something from >"Cats".} The Great Rumpus Cat! >> Boston late at night -- but before she leaves the party for home, she >> Sings herself Claws. She's been known to take a whole hour to make >> the *&%*&^ things show up. I raised her skill level recently, though.) > "And...snikt! Snikt, I said. Darnit, fingers..." "That's a knife. These aren't." "You don't want my purse, now do you." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 14:54:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast At 1:45 AM +0000 11/4/97, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> So it's crispy critter. > >You've said that about a lot of cities, more or less. Did every bad >thing that was geologically possible happen, or have some cities that >were near faults or volcanoes survived? Hey, the fewer cities that survive, the less that has to be written... (You can just list off the survivors and not the rest, and the fingers are saved the typing...) O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 14:37:33 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Archival and Places At 10:42 PM -0500 11/3/97, Casca wrote: >On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> >I'll say. I've lost count of how many email are sitting on my mail spool >> >with the DV header. And this is -with- judicious deletion. >> >> > >Oddly enough, I have a larger mailspool quota than account quota. This is >why I have 400+ pieces of email sitting there...I can cram more stuff >this way. ;) Eeek. That makes sense. That's scary. >> Latter is probably fine, just so long as someone's doing it... > >Of course. I'm glad to see you HTML'd that Lilim piece I forwarded. (Silly >Archangel, writing something good and not putting it on your website!) Well, Em had it on hers... >> >Any word yet from the Council regarding my petition for the word of >> >Continuity Tracking? >> >> If you can make sense of all this... I'd say it's a shoe-in! > >But Seraphs of Archives don't -wear- shoes...there's no place to put them >on our Celestial form, and we never leave the library.... Well, the Library does span L-space.... >Or did you mean 'shoo-in' ;;;) (I'm allowed to nitpick about grammar; >it's part of my Choir Attunement.) Perfectly true... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 14:53:41 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim... At 11:17 PM -0700 11/3/97, Kingsley Lintz wrote: >> >above question is 'yes', in which case even THAT won't clue them). If and >> >when they finally realize where the Shedite is, he's back to full hit >> >points! >> Evil, aren't they? Yes, Shedim need sneaky angels to deal >> with them. But toss a few Seraphim of Destiny at them and watch > Granted, there are always specialists...but it IS kind of a >problem, given that a group of Angels has to be READY for Shedim to have >any real hope of even affecting the little snits. Seraphim of Destiny are just plain obnoxious -- they aren't specialists just for Shedim... Yeah, angels have to be ready. But there is always the "tie up in a room" trick. And Shedim can't take over vessels. > I don't know...I've always preferred the idea that Shedim and >Kyriotates SHOULD be a little more susceptible to Celestial attack than >most. [...] If the GM wishes, he may do anything in In Nomine. Including running it in [fill in game system of choice that makes you gag]. >> Anything that has to do with Intelligence... Songs of Charm, say? > The Song of Celestial Charm would work -GREAT-, I'd say. [...] >it doesn't really help the problem..it's another, "Shedim hunters can do >this," but if the group ISN'T ready for Shedim, the GM either 1) can't use >them, 2) has to use them deliberately badly, or 3) has just rammed the >players into a scenario they can't win, which isn't entirely fair. {It'd >be like sending them against the dragon that can only be killed by the >Great Axe of Heybattah, knowing full well that none of them spent their >character points on that particular artifact, and just shrugging and >saying, "Well, guess you're hosed, then. Gosh."} Yes, well, true. Though the Celestial Song of Charm is *so* very useful... Many of my characters want to have it... (Especially my Lilim, who are allergic to people making Will rolls when they're being geased.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 15:43:45 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> [DV] (Fluff) LITHEROY LIVES! [Archangel Beth] >>>(I think that character has become the character that we all >>>love to pick on...) [Charybdis] >> And most of you haven't even met him... :) Poor Jeremiah... And >>he really is a nice guy, too... :) [Archangel Beth] >We've got one of our own, in our RL game. He's scary and manic. >We like picking on him. It's fun. Wouldn't trade him... Ah yes... I keep forgetting that I'm not alone... :) And my party likes picking on Jeremiah too... Poor guy... :) Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon charybdis@krilion.cnchost.com http://www.krilion.cnchost.com ** Let them eat each other!** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 15:41:41 -0500 From: Charybdis GreyDragon Subject: Re: IN> IN: Dice questions. [Charybdis] >> >Even in long-shot situations and/or when facing a celestial, the >> >celestial doesn't fail a song, only the affect of the song is so >> >small that it goes unnoticed. No need for dice there as well. >> Then it is not truly a long shot... You are saying it always succeed with >> no result... And I think there may be some cases where it DOES have an >> effect enough to be noticed. [A. Nachmias] >I agree. The GM should then decide the effect according to the level >of the celestial's song. But how do you then decide when it works and when it doesn't? [A. Nachmias] >The absurd thing, in the rules, is that no matter if you know a song at level 1 or 6, >the only thing this accounts for is whether you succeed or not and not on how much you >succeed, AFAIR. I, myself, have no problem with this... I think all levels of success and failure *should* be possible for all levels of a skill or song. And if you DO know a song or skill well enough to get automatic successes (ie 12+ target numbers), then you do influence the check digit... [Charybdis] >> >> Again, I think a bit of randomness is cool... Sure God and Lucifer have >> >> grandiose plans, but we (and even the Celestials) don't know what those >> >> plans are and what is significant to them. Now I agree that your above >> >> situation is a bit ludicrous, but then, I wouldn't call for a die roll in >> >> an automatic action... [A. Nachmias] >God and Lucifer have such grandiose plans that even the GM doesn't >know about them?!?! ;-) Sure, why not... Besides, I have lots of fun inventing what they are when they come up... [A. Nachmias] >Naah. Interventions should be limited to significant events as are >die rolls. Well, if you only roll dice when it matters, then you will only roll Interventions in those same cases, right? I mean, if your dice roll Interventions without your rolling them first, then I think you have a RL Intervention going on... [A. Nachmias] >>>Randomness? God appearing at a random situation? This is silly. [Charybdis] >> Why? Okay, perhaps it's not random to God, but since we don't share >> Divine Omniscience, it only seems random to us... [A. Nachmias] >That's a nice explanation but just doesn't fit. An intervention >should be something, hell, it should be on such major incidents that >the whole course of actions will change. IMHO it depends on what the Intervention actually is... I do tend to scale mine to fit the encounter in question... I mean, even in the examples in the IN book, an Intervention doesn't always mean that God/Lucifer himself shows up personally-- or even a Superior... Just that there is some miraculous even favoring or hindering the PC... [A. Nachmias] >>>"Oh, hello fellow angels, I kinda stumbled into you and since I'm >>>here, I just as might help you open this door. *Phooo!* *Door >>>opened* *Angels stands awed in front of the awesome power of God in >>>opening doors!*" [Charybdis] >> As I said before, I wouldn't call for a die roll to open a door. I would >> consider that an automatic action-- unless the door was locked or >> booby-trapped or something.... [A. Nachmias] >And then came God and discharged the bomb? Hell, I could have done >that. ;-) No need for God to show up, just for something miraculous to occur... Perhaps the explosive material just became inert ( turned into flower or gold or somesuch if you want to be really corny), allowing the PCs to get through the door in record time... After all, bomb deactivation is normally a tedious and time consuming process... I don't know exactly... The miracle would have to fit what was going on in my plotline... [A. Nachmias] >I wouldn't refuse a PC asking for a die roll in a place he's ready to >take a chance. I won't initiate die rolling myself. If a PC think I've >been unfair and wants to try it through the rules, let it be, he has >chances of failing as much as succeeding. My live group back in Houston before I moved used to have a saying, "*NEVER* pick up the dice unless the GM asks you to..." They were known the slap the fool-hearty player who made the mistake of rolling the dice before I called for it... :) Peace, Charybdis GreyDragon charybdis@krilion.cnchost.com http://www.krilion.cnchost.com ** Let them eat each other!** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 15:22:59 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Millenium's End Just wanted to let you know that I think that this is a really cool idea. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 15:09:22 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Hebrew in IN and fluff. At 05:51 PM 10/27/97 -0400, you wrote: >At 12:17 PM +0000 10/25/97, A. Nachmias wrote: >>Andre Ribeiro wrote: > >>Most of the choirs are from hebrew, so we and my group can relate >>easily. Malakim are in translation to hebrew Angels. Ofanim, are >>actually bicycles or wheels. Cherubim are cabbages. > >Cabbages? > Just remember that if your character makes any of the likely comments she will probably get hurt. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 12:53:47 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse >Speaking of volcanoes, if you hadn't guessed, kiss off Mexico City and >everyone in it... they're sitting under one of the largest ashcone volcanoes >in the world. > They were toast anyway. The city is built on a basin just like L.A. They either fried or drowned. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 12:51:28 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse At 05:35 PM 11/3/97 -0600, you wrote: >>At 3:39 PM -0500 10/30/97, Jeff Miller wrote: >>>>You know.... I keep getting flashes of those really bad post opokolypic >>>movies with those guys riding around in the armored cars and motorcycles..... > >Opokolypic? > >hee... > It's a new word, see. It has nothing to do with fingers pushing the wrong buttons. It means: and end to the wold that leaves enough people around to say, "Oh!" Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 12:58:15 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> [DV] Cities After the Apocalypse At 11:24 PM 11/3/97 -0700, you wrote: > >> >And as we know, velociraptors travel in packs... >> >> That's what pipe bombs and mortars are for. > According to the movie, actually, that's what the uneven bars are >for. Go figure. (Great...the Idahoans give up potatos and start up a >brisk trade in velociraptor luggage accessories.) > Ya know.... I can actually see that happening. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 12:47:11 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast >>>The Dakotas, and indeed the plains from Calgary down to Oklahoma City, have >>>a unique problem; that's where Vapula unleashed Project: Carnosaur, Subject: >>>Velociraptor. >>> >>That might cause problems.... I'm assuming that they'll be able to survive >>the winter or do they migrate? >> >They migrate a bit, but snow doesn't bother them much. 'Raptors are >warm-blooded. > Damn, where'd I leave those IR goggles.... >>>As for Montana, someone else is trying to persuade me that life goes on as >>>normal... I'm trying to figure out where they get the bullets from to keep >>>it that way. >>> >>Um... They'd make them. I don't even think that they'd have to resort to >>black powder. There are probably plenty of people there and in northern >>Idaho who can make modern gun poweder. Then there are the natives who may >>have other kinds of help. > >Well, thing here is, melting lead is easy, making powder is easy, but >manufacturing cartridges and percussion caps isn't quite so easy. > It's not too hard. Note that any home made cartriges will have a definite misfire chance. After a year they'll probably be int eh 20%-50% chance of misfire per round. After two years it might be down to about 10%. Of course, by that time there will probbly be some kind of manufacturing capability. Also, there might be actual ammunition factories in the area. I know that there's a place that makes fireworks. "OK, you want me to make one that will kill all Raptors in a 50 foot area. What color do you want?" Heh. >Personally, I think those who bow-hunt will have a distinct advantage in the >long run... }:-{D > Yep. Especially with modern hunting bows. Shotgun shells are easier to than normal shells so probably shotguns and bows are going to be the main weapons. Home made explosives will probably be used a lot as well. >>>As for British Columbia, I'd be very concerned about Vancouver Island... >>>wish I knew more firsthand about its geology... >>> >>Hmmm.... I've only been there a couple of times. I don't *think* that >>it's volcanic. Most of the population lives in the low areas though. Once >>they get cleaned up from the disaster, the Island would probably be a >>pretty nice place to live. Unless it got Celestialed. Not much industry, >>that I can recall, so its isolation may be a bit of a problem. > >As someone else has pointed out, Vancouver City is sitting right beneath a >volcano. > >So it's crispy critter. > Oh, well. Glad I have a photo. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 19:53:25 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Places - West Coast > >> They migrate a bit, but snow doesn't bother them much. 'Raptors are > >> warm-blooded. > > > >So are we, and running around with no clothing in snowy conditions > >ain't good for us. They lack fur or heavy fat layers to trap body > >heat - either they stay in a warm place, or they (most likely) die. > > Who said they don't have fat layers? }:-{D Look at just about any animal that hunts by speed - not very much fat layers. It slows you down too much. Those animals that hunt by speed in cold climates have heavy coats. Raptors most likely keep to the tropical and semi-tropical areas (can you say Florida? I knew you could). > If you have someone who can produce large quantities of mercury > fulminate, you're in business. It sounds like some of the larger surviving areas might have the ability to do that anyway. It'd be a good thing to trade to the small communitites - it's easy to transport in the amounts needed, and is (given supply and demand) probably worth more than gold was. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com In the fourth grade, Mrs. Watkins gave me a D in Mathematics. I was not a happy camper. Now she's a blood thirsty demon from the seventh plane of hell, and I have a Mini gun with 2000 rounds of HESH ammo. Mrs. Watkins...Class is back in session. - Heavy Ordinance (http://members.iquest.net/~ericg/games/heavy.html) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 14:44:16 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim... > If the GM wishes, he may do anything in In Nomine. > Including running it in [fill in game system of choice that makes > you gag]. Wow... an In Nomine game run under the rules of NBA Basketball. Now _that_ is hard to imagine. - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 17:05:08 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> About Shedim... On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Kingsley Lintz wrote: > I don't know...I've always preferred the idea that Shedim and > Kyriotates SHOULD be a little more susceptible to Celestial attack than > most. They don't `anchor' in their hosts the way everyone else does, so > it should be possible to pry them loose. (Kind of a tradeoff for having a > comparatively infinite supply of hosts. I've made a house rule that when a Kyrio or Shedim jumps bodies, they create a disturbance in that their celestial form (or fragment thereof in the case of Kyrios) must manifest and fly to the new host. Thus, not only are they more vulnerable when booted from a host, they have to be more cautious when swapping bodies...either they're noisy, or they transfer by touch -- which makes no disturbance since the possessor flows from one to the other, but is difficult to do surreptitiously. - -- Casca (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 17:18:43 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> [DARK VICTORY] Archival and Places On Tue, 4 Nov 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Oddly enough, I have a larger mailspool quota than account quota. This is > >why I have 400+ pieces of email sitting there...I can cram more stuff > >this way. ;) > > Eeek. That makes sense. That's scary. Yup. I do funky things for good reasons, but nobody ever asks me. F'rinstance, I've never been asked why I microwave ice cream before I eat it...even though I have a very good reason. > >Of course. I'm glad to see you HTML'd that Lilim piece I forwarded. (Silly > >Archangel, writing something good and not putting it on your website!) > > Well, Em had it on hers... Well, I don't have her URL. Send it my way and I'll inspect her links, too. :;:) > >But Seraphs of Archives don't -wear- shoes...there's no place to put them > >on our Celestial form, and we never leave the library.... > > Well, the Library does span L-space.... I'm in the "Fantasy, Science Fiction and Gaming" section. Folks who read those genres don't find anything odd about seeing a six-eyed, winged, glowing serpent manifest near them. Last time I did it, I was mistaken for a Vorlon. > >Or did you mean 'shoo-in' ;;;) (I'm allowed to nitpick about grammar; > >it's part of my Choir Attunement.) > > Perfectly true... Speaking of which, there should have been a "?" after 'shoo-in'. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives and Kosh in my spare time (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 08:12:28 -0800 From: Len Undy Subject: IN> Re: DarkAges Review Dear Angles and fellow Demons I that we arn't ment to like those "wierd" guys over on the WOD lists. Thier to angsty ect. But they have been discussing some interesting things later. I thought the following might be of some interest. Bryce Shiva wrote: > > On Tue, 4 Nov 1997, Micah Adrian Foster-Eden wrote: > > > > > > > Now the above is a compalation from several sources. And isn't > > > based on 1 single book. Some of which may be bull, but all were written by > > > Rabbi's. *shrug* Consider it a bit of Occult 1. > > > > > > Shiva. > > > > No. It was only 1/3 of the angels. > > If you are familiar with the Scripture that says: > > "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, > > against powers, against the rulers of this dark age." > > Then you know which 1/3 got kicked out. > > There are Nine Orders of Angels, in order from least to greatest: > > > > Angels > > Archangels > > Dominions > > Thrones > > Rulers > > Powers > > Principalities > > Cherubim > > Seraphim > > > > > > And the Part about Man being over the Valar is bull. The Master made > > Mankind to be a little lower than the angels. The only angels he made us > > to be better over were the fallen ones, to show them just how low the > > Boss put them. As for the ones who are still loyal to His Majesty, they > > stay above us in that respect. > > > *sigh* You're going to make me dig up my book of angels and demons > aren't you? Look, there are jewish scholors who have spent their entire > lives researching text looking for the name of just one angel, fallen or > not. This has been going on for thousands of years. Christianity is the > only religion in this field that preports to know everything without even > having to look for it. The Jews and Muslims search and search for hints of > what happened before creation, the names of the angels, the names of god > for that matter. Now lets see, Ah, found it, between my Masonic text's and > "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." great book. draws some real interesting conclusions from historical > facts.> Now, I'm going to toss out some names, all of these are taken from > one of the following sources. Either Enoch I, Apocrypha, the Cabala, > Goetia, Rabbinic, Patrisitc, and other secular writings. Now, when I give > you these names, I'm only > going to give you the ones that list the order that the Angel belonged to > before being cast down. > Abbadona > Asmodeus <(Sammael) Seraphim> > Astaroth (Seraphim AND Thrones.> > Leviathan > Lucifer > Semyaza <(Shemhazai, Azaziel) Seraphim> > > Amy > Ariel > Azazel > Balam > Barbatos > Beelzebub > Beliar <(Belial) Virtues and Angels.> > Byleth <(Beleth) Powers.> > Balberith <(Cherubim)> > Caim <(Caym) Angels> > Carnivean > Carreau > Gaap > Gressil > Ielahiah > Iuvart > Lau(v)iah Thrones and Cherubim> > Marchosias > Murmur > Nelchael > Nilaihah > Oeillet > Olivier > Paimon > Pursan <(Curson) Virtues> > Raum <(Raym) Thrones> > Rosier > SEaliah > Senciner > Sonneillon > Usiel <(Uzziel) Virtues> > Verrier > Verrine > Vual <(Vvall) Powers> > Belphegor <(Baal-Peor) Principalites> > > Now the list goes on to say that Enoch I mentions 200 apostates > alone, however only names a score or so. The Rabbinic goes on to list a > few dozen more fallen angels than I have here, as well as their > relationships within the orders. Studies and Texts in folklore is one of the names of Lilith. ;-> > Now then lets see, gotta pull out another book and do some > digging... Damn, this letter has already taken me through 3 books and over > 2 hours. Ok, the book I need is the Bet Eked Sepharim. It's a rabbidical > text. It mentions the numbers of angels that fought and didn't fight and > who was cast down and who wasn't. Also check out the following Jewish > Mysticism and the Legend of Baalshem, The Clavicula Salomonis, the Talmud, > and basicly any thing that will waken your brain and show you that there > are other views than yours out there. > > > > > > Now, Gabriel has the job Lucifer once had. > > Lucifer ceased to be Lucifer when he was cast out. He was stripped of > > his position, his power, his authority. He ceased to be the Son of the > > Morning. He became the Lord of the Underworld, the Father of Lies, the > > Great Pretender, the Jerk of the World. He can seem to be suave and sane > > and calculating, but he has his madness aspects as well. And being the > > Father of Lies, he can make most anyone who don't know how he can be > > believe any lie he thinks up of. > > Maybe that's how he wins so many over. > > He makes them believe that neither he nor the Boss exist. > > Try reading the book called, "The Books of Magic". It'll bring you > > closer to the truth of how things are set up than what you were before. > > > *Sigh* Ok, Lucifer was confused with Satan by a misreading of > Isaiah 14:12 during the translation of the bible from Latin to English for > King James as we know it today. Close, but not quite enough.> The mistake wasn't > cought until recently when the bible was retranslated from > Latin to Modern English. Any Catholic could have told the prods they were > wrong, but the two didn't really share beliefs. Now, with that bit of > information out of the way. It's Satan who is the Adversary, matter of > fact that's what the name means in Hebrew. In Numbers 22:22 the angel of > the Lord stands against Balaam "For an adversary" (satan). In other Old > Testament books (Job, I Chronicles, Psalms, Zechariah) the term also > designates an office; and the angel investing that office is not apostate > or fallen. This happens early in the New Testament times and writings when > we get Satan , the Prince of evil and enemy of God, and is > characterized by such titles as "prince of this world" and > "prince of power and air" Satan was a truely great angel > with 12-wings The > Talmud claims that Satan was created on the 6th day of Creation this gets the christians goat becasue they state that all the angels were > created at the same time> (Bereshith Rabba, 17>. According to Cabalistic > text Satan will be reinstated in his "pristine splendor and origional > rank" > Now little one, I've studied philosophy and religion sence I was > 15 years old and I turn 28 on the 16th, true I'm not a great and learned > man in the occult and this is a "hobby" of mine if you will I keep an > open mind and refuse to allow anyone to tell me that their way is the only > way. I've spoken to Catholic priests, Jewish Rabbi's, Muslam Mula's, Hari > Krishna Guru's, Wiccans, Satanists, Gaeian's, you name it. I'm constantly > updating and modifying my own personal belief's. And hopefully I will do > so for the rest of my life. Becasue my worst nightmare about my life is > that one day I'll sit in my chair and sound just like you. "My way is the > only way, and if you believe diffrently then you are WRONG." > > Until Krishna, God, Wonkotonka, Buddha, whom EVER comes to ME > personaly and says, Shiva, you are completely right I'm probably just as > wrong as everyone else. Again I remind you that Religion no matter how > much you want it to be is all just faith. There are no garentees that the > Hindu's aren't right and next life you come back as a cow. plan on it, eat grass for a year or 2, get slaughtered and feed someone. I > hope that I go to a hungry person and not to a fat pig like I am now. Then > maybe a bird, I'd like to fly.> > > With dwindleing respect. > Maha Shiva. > > > Sincerely, > > Airyn Windwalker > > > > "There is magic in believing." > > > > Unknown > > > > If Forgiveness was divine, there would be no Hell. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #457 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.