From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Dec 5 08:20:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA09887 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:20:34 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id HAA05532 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:50:13 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:50:13 -0600 Message-Id: <199712051350.HAA05532@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #498 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, December 5 1997 Volume 01 : Number 498 In this digest: IN> Good lab practise (was Re: Hell etc ) Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless Re: IN> Strange Question Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless IN>was In Nomine Diceless, now Gabby's hangups Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage IN> 12 Will Shedite / Cristmas Cheer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:18:40 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Good lab practise (was Re: Hell etc ) Joshua Knorr wrote: >If you want to give Hell an in-your-face >quality, than a trip through the labs of Tartarus will surely give you the >willies and expose you to all sorts of horrific fates. The horrors of sleep-deprived postgrads who howl through the windswept corridors (note: not /like/ lost souls -- these are the real thing)! The nightmares of chirpy technicians who swipe your equipment as soon as your back is turned... The oppressive weight of 20' piles of technical journals to be deciphered... The painstricken panic of trying to meet deadlines for the next conference.... The mindless grind of continually trying to be sent to said conference as its in an exotic location... (unlike level 8) The wintery chill that descends when the level 8 micro-climate malfunctions again... The unspeakable chaos that lurks inside the fridge... The torment of having to round up 2000 random individuals to take part in your latest listening tests... TEST SUBJECT: *after 27 hours spent listening to random tapes...* Um.. is this going to be going on for long? I thought you said it was a short test? JO: You're doing great, just great! Now... tell me which of these sounds better to you... *hits the PLAY button amd 2 identical sentences drone out* TS: Uhh.. they both sound the same. Lets say the first one. How many more are there to go? JO: Just a few, but this is great. We have tons of other subjective tests to do afterwards as well! You sound a bit peaky, want a coffee or something? TS: *having experienced lab coffee before* NO!!!! Err.. I mean.. just play the tape... jo *click* FAST FORWARD *click* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:15:41 -0600 (CST) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless > Bad image just flashed in my head, caused by the discussion of Dom > the Dom and Larry the Sub; Gabriel the Sadist, and Belial the > Masochist. I think you have the two Fires backwards. (Of course, most angels seem to be masochists or compensating for masochistic tendencies...) > Nathaniel, Impudite of Lust > Demon of In Nomine/XXXenophile Crossovers > temujin9@ix.netcom.com Oops da Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:09:22 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question On Dec 3, 11:56pm, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Strange Question > > > > What do y'all think: Shedim possession? ;) > > > > > > No - the tattoo isn't something I (at least) would find morally > > > repugnant. But it certainly *looks* fairly demonic... > > > > Ah, but does it horrify your family? Shedim like > > to start small... and the victim never finds out how far > > they've gone until the Shedim leaves. Heh-heh-heh. > > Actually, no. My mom helped me draw it. My girlfriend loves it. > And my girlfriend's mother won't know, trust me. Okay, we can rule out demonic possession! =) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:07:04 -0500 From: johnk@lucent.com (John Karakash - Lucent ASCC) Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) > >>*hem* So far, that question has not come up, and therefore > >>it will probably be a case of telling your celestials "You're not > >>cleared for that information." A celestial spirit who didn't have > >>a vessel could probably hang around there (ooooo! Vapulan imps and > >>gremlins, plus Lightning relievers, as listening stations!), but > >>a celestial who had a vessel would have difficulty -- they can only > >>stay in celestial form for a limited duration... > >> > >What about us Kyriotates? > > > >For a mere three Force points, Kyrios can have a Celestial form for as long > >as they don't need those points for another host. > > That sounds like a very good reason to say that a Kyrio's > celestial form can only last as long as most such forms do > (CD + CelForces minutes), and then has to be re-generated, at > the site of one of the hosts it's still got. Much fewer headaches. Does anyone think this is a big problem? I've been allowing Kyriotates to stay in celestial form as long as they wanted to (as long as they had another host, of course). - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:59:35 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > Strength is overall physical prowess, including both raw power and the > ability to use it. Generally speaking, the better able a person is to > control their strength, the more they'll be able to do with it- hence, a > person with a higher Strength rating will be able to lift heavier things, > perform physical feats, etc. no matter what they look like. But how do you determine exactly what can be done with a particular Strength rating? I've checked the books, and I can't seem to find any particular rules for how much weight can be lifted. Is there an official rule? I know I can just wing it (especially since that's what I've been doing), but an official ruling would be nice. One of my players is a Strength 12 Malakim who wants the Word of Strength, and as a result he's quite curious about how much he can lift at the moment. Besides, "winging it" resulted in him flipping a bus over during Night Music; it was fun, but disturbing. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 12:36:07 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Does anyone think this is a big problem? I've been > allowing Kyriotates to stay in celestial form as long as > they wanted to (as long as they had another host, of course). That's what I've been doing as well. The one Kyriotate in my group typically possesses the Malakim's pet parrot, and then keeps his other Forces free for emergencies. It's amazing how versitile he is like that. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:58:08 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage > > >On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >> Strength is overall physical prowess, including both raw power and the >> ability to use it. Generally speaking, the better able a person is to >> control their strength, the more they'll be able to do with it- hence, a >> person with a higher Strength rating will be able to lift heavier things, >> perform physical feats, etc. no matter what they look like. > >But how do you determine exactly what can be done with a particular >Strength rating? I've checked the books, and I can't seem to find any >particular rules for how much weight can be lifted. Is there an official >rule? > >I know I can just wing it (especially since that's what I've been doing), >but an official ruling would be nice. One of my players is a Strength 12 >Malakim who wants the Word of Strength, and as a result he's quite curious >about how much he can lift at the moment. Besides, "winging it" resulted >in him flipping a bus over during Night Music; it was fun, but >disturbing. > As a house rule, I'd work it like this. Let's say an average human "STR=3" can lift 150 pounds for brief periods of time automatically- that is, without a roll. Having said that, let's give characters 50 pounds of lifting ability per point of STR. Your Malakite would be able to lift as much as 600 pounds - -wihthout having to roll- against his STR. For every fifty pounds beyond this, however, they must make a roll, and for every fifty pounds -beyond- the first fifty they get a +1 penalty to their roll. This would mean that an average human could lift 150 automatically, 200 with great difficulty, 250 with a supreme effort, and 300 not at all. Fine for them. Your 12-STR Malakite, however, would get 600 automatically, up to 750 almost automatically (11 and 12 being autofails), and as high as 900 pounds with better than 50/50 odds of success. The max-out point in this system would be 1,150 pounds. This guy could tip over a bus, but not lift it- he'd have to make a miraculous effort to lift a compact car. (Then again, considering balance and what-not, it'd be extremely difficult to lift a whole bus into the air anyway. A human-sized being just hasn't got the leverage, usually.) NOW... Let's alter this number-crunching a bit, to give our Celestial buds an additional boost. Instead of a flat 50-pound increment, let's make it increments of (25XCorpForce) pounds. Average human with STR=3 has 2 CorpForces, so that works out the same. However, Mr. 12-STR Malakite must have a minimum of 4 CorpForces. Assuming this, his AUTOMATIC lift is 1200 pounds (STR X CorpForce X 25). His 7-or-less lifting weight would be 1800 pounds. Tossing around compact cars becomes a possibility. Now, for a -true- bruiser, let's pick out a 6-Force, 12-STR brute. -His- automatic lift is 1800 pounds. His 7-or-less lifting weight would be a whopping 2700 pounds. BUT... ... for those who haven't crunched ENOUGH NUMBERS YET, let's make one more twist. Instead of using CorpForces as a multiplier, let's say that the increments of determining lift are straight from Strength- each increment is (STR X 15) pounds. That means auto-lift is STR X STR X 15 pounds. Our human actually gets a little bit wimpier from this- he gets 9X15, or 135 pounds of autolift. It takes near-heroic effort for him to lift up to the next increment (180 pounds), truly heroic effort for 225 pounds, and anything beyond that is just plain impossible. Next comes our 12-STR Malakite. He gets as an autolift 144X15 pounds. That's over a TON- 2160 pounds- WITHOUT ROLLING. He'd have to roll 7 or less to lift 3240 pounds. Two of these bruisers, together, might have a shot at tossing that bus. Which of these is more realistic? All three systems work for the human scale, which is really all we have to work with. (The most beefy world-record human would have an autolift of 36X15, or 540 pounds, under the most extreme of these systems.) Which of these systems is more realistic for Celestials? That will depend on your definition of reality for Celestial Vessels. Myself, I GM for drama, and usually don't trouble myself with exact figures. If a demon wants to pick up a bus, I'll let him roll for it with a heavy penalty, depending on what he plans to do with it once he's got it up. (If I think his player's a twit, I'll have him get it up and over him, then do a Captain Caveman. "Unga bunga... strength power give out." *WHUD.*) Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:02:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) At 12:36 PM -0400 12/4/97, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: >On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > >> Does anyone think this is a big problem? I've been >> allowing Kyriotates to stay in celestial form as long as >> they wanted to (as long as they had another host, of course). > >That's what I've been doing as well. The one Kyriotate in my group >typically possesses the Malakim's pet parrot, and then keeps his other >Forces free for emergencies. It's amazing how versitile he is like that. He ought to be able to do that anyway -- if they've only got one host, then they still have Forces "free" (unless it's a 9 Force host!). Forces compact to fit inside hosts very nicely, and you can always decompress a few as needed. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:00:37 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) At 10:07 AM -0500 12/4/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> >For a mere three Force points, Kyrios can have a Celestial form for as long >> >as they don't need those points for another host. >> >> That sounds like a very good reason to say that a Kyrio's >> celestial form can only last as long as most such forms do >> (CD + CelForces minutes), and then has to be re-generated, at >> the site of one of the hosts it's still got. Much fewer headaches. > > Does anyone think this is a big problem? I've been >allowing Kyriotates to stay in celestial form as long as >they wanted to (as long as they had another host, of course). If you want Kyrios on the Moon, then don't worry about it. If you don't, then mutter things about "stress on the Symphony"... I'm not gonna canonize that until one of our Kyrios makes a nuisance of itself that way. (Of course, I'd also have such Kyrios spotted with the full Celestial Forces bonus, and humans do tend to have car crashes when that happens.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:17:45 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage [Redneck] > Strength is overall physical prowess, including both raw power and the > ability to use it. Generally speaking, the better able a person is to > control their strength, the more they'll be able to do with it- hence, a > person with a higher Strength rating will be able to lift heavier things, > perform physical feats, etc. no matter what they look like. [Rich] >But how do you determine exactly what can be done with a particular >Strength rating? I've checked the books, and I can't seem to find any >particular rules for how much weight can be lifted. Is there an official >rule? [Redneck] >As a house rule, I'd work it like this. But what's canon? I'm still not convinced that the Strength rating has to do with how strong you are. It _does_ relate to how much damage you can take, and how often you win hit someone in combat, however, according to the text, I have found nothing that tells me that it reflects muscle mass, how much can be lifted or how easily bars can be bent. I guess I'm *not* willing to *not* see a distinction between Strength and Agility. The little kid who connects often, but not with as much force as the Giant, who can kill you with a bear-hug, but is too slow to be terribly effective. Upon hitting a wall, a Strength 1 character leaves the same size hole as a Strength 8 character, since the hole size would be determined by the amount of damage. Same for breaking weapons and anything else. If damage is not directly related to Strength score, then...? A higher strength does not mean (to me) that the character does not do more damage to a wall because they hit it more times, or that they bend a bar more earily because they can bend it more times. - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmest green. On human beings it used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen. -Lewis Carroll (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:26:52 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > >>*hem* So far, that question has not come up, and therefore > > >>it will probably be a case of telling your celestials "You're not > > >>cleared for that information." A celestial spirit who didn't have > > >>a vessel could probably hang around there (ooooo! Vapulan imps and > > >>gremlins, plus Lightning relievers, as listening stations!), but > > >>a celestial who had a vessel would have difficulty -- they can only > > >>stay in celestial form for a limited duration... > > >> > > >What about us Kyriotates? > > > > > >For a mere three Force points, Kyrios can have a Celestial form for as long > > >as they don't need those points for another host. > > > > That sounds like a very good reason to say that a Kyrio's > > celestial form can only last as long as most such forms do > > (CD + CelForces minutes), and then has to be re-generated, at > > the site of one of the hosts it's still got. Much fewer headaches. > > Does anyone think this is a big problem? I've been > allowing Kyriotates to stay in celestial form as long as > they wanted to (as long as they had another host, of course). I think it's rather unfair, personally! I'd allow them to manifest for (Will x Cel Forces) minutes instead of (CD + Cel Forces), since that's what they can do normally, but I wouldn't let 'em manifest indefinitely. That gives them a lot of advantages...being able to follow a group of baddies almost imperceptibly (as they walk home, just float inside the street, poking your head out just enough to see...that's gotta be a bit minus on the perception roll) for as long as you have to, etc. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! - -= Windows 95 =- A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:51:08 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> Christmas in Heaven > >And then there's "Black Powder and Alcohol" by Leslie Fish... > Sounds like a party I had in high school.... Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:48:44 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) >I think it's rather unfair, personally! I'd allow them to manifest for >(Will x Cel Forces) minutes instead of (CD + Cel Forces), since that's >what they can do normally, but I wouldn't let 'em manifest indefinitely. >That gives them a lot of advantages...being able to follow a group of >baddies almost imperceptibly (as they walk home, just float inside the >street, poking your head out just enough to see...that's gotta be a bit >minus on the perception roll) for as long as you have to, etc. > The problem is that physical things do *not* hamper anyone's ability to see Celestial forms. Thus, being in the ground will not protect you from being spotted. It's is much safer to follow someone in a bird since the Celestial form can be spotted by anyone within range. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:42:59 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) [Kyrio Celestial forms] >> Does anyone think this is a big problem? I've been >>allowing Kyriotates to stay in celestial form as long as >>they wanted to (as long as they had another host, of course). > >If you want Kyrios on the Moon, then don't worry about it. If >you don't, then mutter things about "stress on the Symphony"... > I'm not gonna canonize that until one of our Kyrios makes >a nuisance of itself that way. (Of course, I'd also have such >Kyrios spotted with the full Celestial Forces bonus, and humans >do tend to have car crashes when that happens.) > Yup. Thems the risks. (don't hang around an air traffic pattern in Celestial) Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:40:03 From: Jeff Miller Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) [Kyrios on the Moon] >>> >>What about us Kyriotates? >> >>For a mere three Force points, Kyrios can have a Celestial form for as long >>as they don't need those points for another host. > > That sounds like a very good reason to say that a Kyrio's >celestial form can only last as long as most such forms do >(CD + CelForces minutes), and then has to be re-generated, at >the site of one of the hosts it's still got. Much fewer headaches. > But... ...that's no fun.... >If a GM wants to do that, of course. To avoid the headaches of >Kyrios on the Moon. > >Why do I have this awful image of the Moon as a great big Tether >to David, with a Kyrio Seneschal, now? > Think of it as a party spot. Kyrios and servators of David and Jean can get together and party. Jeff Miller Program Director/Webmaster for Agamemcon II Burbank Airport Hilton -- May 22-24, 1998 Contact Info: 24161-H Hollyoak (714)643-8352 Laguna Hills, CA 92656 www.primenet.com/~shadocat/agamemcon.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:58:26 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Diceless > > Bad image just flashed in my head, caused by the discussion of Dom > > the Dom and Larry the Sub; Gabriel the Sadist, and Belial the > > Masochist. > > I think you have the two Fires backwards. (Of course, most angels > seem to be masochists or compensating for masochistic tendencies...) Gabby is *definately* a sadist. No doubts about it. Whether Belial is a masochist is up for debate, but given the number of burn scars his vessels carry... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:31:26 -0600 (CST) From: Dorothy Bixler Subject: IN>was In Nomine Diceless, now Gabby's hangups On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > > Bad image just flashed in my head, caused by the discussion of Dom > > > the Dom and Larry the Sub; Gabriel the Sadist, and Belial the > > > Masochist. > > > > I think you have the two Fires backwards. (Of course, most angels > > seem to be masochists or compensating for masochistic tendencies...) > > Gabby is *definately* a sadist. No doubts about it. Whether Belial > is a masochist is up for debate, but given the number of burn scars > his vessels carry... I think she's a bit of both. She enjoys the punishment but she still doesn't quite like who she has become. Self- love/hate. Just my sweet little opinion, probably not even worth 2 cents. *Dorothy Michelle Bixler * mudmh10@ecom.ecn.bgu.edu* "Gidget, have you been laying with the Horned One again?" -MST3K's Mike from "The Thing the Couldn't Die" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:42:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> An Awful Noise in the Name of the Lord (was Re: Achmetha) > > I think it's rather unfair, personally! I'd allow them to manifest for > (Will x Cel Forces) minutes instead of (CD + Cel Forces), since that's > what they can do normally, but I wouldn't let 'em manifest indefinitely. I think that makes more sense. After all, I think it can be assumed that the Corporeal Realm doesn't like Celestial Forms floating around, and instincively rejects them. At least, that's my interpretation of the restriction. And as for the game balance elements, Kyriotates (Kyriotatim?) and Shedim are so unbalanced anyway that it's sick, so long as they have high Will. Our gaming group has a Shedite with 12 Will, who's able to get the group anywhere. What need of Balseraphs or Habbalah to mess people's heads if a Shedite can just own them? And that isn't even counting the fact that in one session he's taken out 3 Malakim. > That gives them a lot of advantages...being able to follow a group of > baddies almost imperceptibly (as they walk home, just float inside the > street, poking your head out just enough to see...that's gotta be a bit > minus on the perception roll) for as long as you have to, etc. > In fairness, it's still easier to see than the bird flying along the street. Who the hell notices birds? Most Kyrios have a good number of Celestial Forces, so perceptive demons should be able to see them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 09:55:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage > > But what's canon? I'm still not convinced that the Strength rating has to > do with how strong you are. It _does_ relate to how much damage you can > take, and how often you win hit someone in combat, No, it's how often you can hit with _effect_. A failed punch can be described as "You hit him, but he shrugged it off". however, according to > the text, I have found nothing that tells me that it reflects muscle mass, To quote the text (and no challenge is intended to copyright), p25, paragraph 2... "For example, a Strength of 10, which is an impressive amount, doesn't just mean an angel can pick up far more weight than most people...it will also be reflected in his personality. He may carry his huge frame with pride or he may be shy about his stature - words which tell more about him than any single number." So yes, it does reflect muscle mass, size and weight-lifting ability. > I guess I'm *not* willing to *not* see a distinction between Strength and > Agility. The little kid who connects often, but not with as much force as the > Giant, who can kill you with a bear-hug, but is too slow to be terribly effective. I think the combat system is oversimplistic, because it doesn't have a "to hit" with Agility element, in addition to damaging with Strength, but that was almost inevitable with a system designed to be as quick (as opposed to realistic) as possible. > > Upon hitting a wall, a Strength 1 character leaves the same size hole as > a Strength 8 character, since the hole size would be determined by the > amount of damage. No, because when hitting a wall, you still have to roll Strength (by my interpretation). Anyway, how the hell are you breaking a wall with your bare hands? Even with Strength 12, that's silly. Same for breaking weapons and anything else. If damage > is not directly related to Strength score, then...? > Exceptional Strength does extra damage in brawl combat. Plus you are more likely to hit in a way that does damage, in addition to being able to take more. And don't forget the automatic success rule. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:06:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Combat, Strength, and Damage > >I know I can just wing it (especially since that's what I've been doing), > >but an official ruling would be nice. One of my players is a Strength 12 > >Malakim who wants the Word of Strength, and as a result he's quite curious > >about how much he can lift at the moment. Besides, "winging it" resulted > >in him flipping a bus over during Night Music; it was fun, but > >disturbing. > > > As a house rule, I'd work it like this. > As a WOD player, and as a result of a half-attempt to do In Nomine-WOD system conversion, I reckoned that 2 In Nomine Strength equalled 1 WOD Strength (rounded up). My rationale is that the description of 10 Strength in In Nomine is almost exactly identical to the description of 5 Strength in WOD games, ie, it's the human upper limit. 3 and 4 Strength in In Nomine correspond to 2 Strength for WOD, and both are average for humans. As an aside, I noticed that the conversion system I worked out left mundane humans weaker in In Nomine than in the WOD, and angels and 9-Force Demons a fair bit stronger than WOD supernaturals, even excluding the extra Health Levels aspect. WOD characters in general tended to have far more skills. And this post is probably veering off-topic, so I'll stop. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:46:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Jessop Subject: IN> 12 Will Shedite / Cristmas Cheer. On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Kevin Walsh wrote: > Our gaming group has a Shedite with 12 Will, who's able to get the group > anywhere. What need of Balseraphs or Habbalah to mess people's heads if a > Shedite can just own them? As a GM, I tend to reward subtlety. Otherwise you could apply the same argument to a Calabim: why mess with people's heads when you can blow them into their component atoms? Different tactics have different uses. It might also matter what the reaction of a host is when the Shedim leaves. I can't remember if IN gives an answer, but if not I would probably say that the host often comes completely to their senses, and quite possibly repents of everything they have just done. To a Priest. Who has a friend with a halo. Finally, why not chuck said Shedite up against a high Will Soldier, who resists possession, and phones an angel ASAP. Ten minutes later, Michael sends in the Lads, and suddenly the characters have a genuine challenge on their hands. > And that isn't even counting the fact that in one session he's taken out > 3 Malakim. Oh dear. He just made it personal with Them Up There. Hunt him down. Hound him from the face of the Corporeal plane. Send in _6_ Malakim next time, with 18 forces each. (OK, maybe a tad excessive. Maybe not.) Or maybe have some demon of a rival Prince double cross him, and drag his celestial ass to the annual Word-Bound Angels of Laurence Dinner and Dance, together with a note (OK, Celestial song of Tongues), saying 'Merry Christmas, Have Fun, Love Kobal XX'. Laugh lots. Let him get away only through the assistance of the local Lilim, who just felt a Rating 73 Need ripple through the Symphony... Make the smug bstd admit there are some things he just can't handle... Steve Jessop, Kobal's Impudite of Amusing Things Happening To Characters Who Think They Are Hard. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #498 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.