From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Dec 15 22:24:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21208 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:24:20 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id WAA29437 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:16:47 -0600 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:16:47 -0600 Message-Id: <199712160416.WAA29437@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #516 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, December 15 1997 Volume 01 : Number 516 In this digest: Re: IN> In Anime Movie Trailer Re: IN> Age, Body Hits Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> I need advice and answers Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2 IN> Cool movie in the works Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2 Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions IN> PK's Combat Rules IN> Superior Pickup lines Re: IN> Movie Trailer IN> Other Vessel Questions IN> Kyriotates and Vessels ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:40:52 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Anime Movie Trailer At 9:38 PM -0500 12/13/97, Casca wrote: >Just to add insult to injury, here's my contribution to the thread. >Rather than live action, it is Anime, which cuts down the SFX budget >drastically. Purists will be pleased to note that the dialogue is in >Japanese, subtitled into English. [...] >Keiel >Yuriel >Yuriel: "Remember that little detour we took through Tartarus?" > >IN NOMINE: LOVELY ANGELS OF THE WIND > > >"Maladjusted, Malakim. What's the difference?" Perfect. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:10:01 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Age, Body Hits At 7:54 PM +0200 12/13/97, Lassi Seppala wrote: >-How old celestial is considered to be middle-aged? Oh, a few centuries is probably about right.... Whatever you want. >-When a kyriotate or a shedim is possessing a mortal host does he use his or >the host's strength and corporeal forces for calculating body hits? His Strength, and the host's Corporeal Forces as "vessel level", IIRC. (Which is just re-phrasing what Pee Kitty said.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 15:28:26 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels At 6:53 PM +0000 12/13/97, Kevin Walsh wrote: >> that if they CAN take over Vessels, using CorpF to support it actually >> makes a lot more sense than anything else. Since it also says, "Like others of their Choir," I am taking that to be errata -- Kyrios of War, "like others of their Choir," can still use their resonance normally. (Less the Forces, usually 5 (for a human vessel), invested in their vessel.) >Secondly, it could be pointed out that those Forces which have been >booted out are trying to get back into the body, in a Vessel's case just >as much as in a human's. And/or the vessel is trying to return to the potentiality field of the celestial who normally owns it, if the owner has taken up another vessel. (But yes, if the owner is still in the Marches when the Kyrio gives up possession, the owner gets sucked back automatically.) >Anyway, it doesn't say anywhere that Kyriotates have to be in more than >one place at once, just that they can be. It's like saying Seraphs have to >be using their resonance for truth all the time, if you ask me. Though a Seraph who *doesn't* use his resonance *often* is probably one who's very troubled as an angel. Same with Kyrios. They *can* pull this trick, but if they do it too much, they are in danger of losing touch with their nature -- and "too much" is a GM call, just as an Elohite acting subjectively would be. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:39:11 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions >At 2:38 PM -0500 12/14/97, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >>Redneck wrote: >>>> Pee Kitty wrote: >>>>>On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, Perry M. Lloyd wrote: >>>And more spillover from the DVPBEM comes in... >[...] >>>Perry's character had a through-and-through hole through his shoulder, >>>scratches from jumping through a window, and a broken hand from smashing >>>through a shatterproof glass car window. I ruled that he would definitely be >>>in pain, and under the circumstances would be hampered by that pain. > >Oh, dear. Well, at least it's not soul-killing, right? I never said he got -killed.- He hotwired the car and went for help. (It was a near thing, though; he lost 22 out of 30 body hits in the scuffle, since the Djinn had an Unholy Pistol and two clips of Unholy Bullets with his vessel.) >(Makes mental note to *always* ascend from an angel-Tether when >in the DV universe. That way, you have a lot of friends around...) The problem here is, at the current game-time, there's only one Angelic Tether on the planet- all the others were either assaulted on Earth or taken when Heaven was taken by Hell's forces. What's more, it'll be tough to get any new Tethers going. Lucifer has a new Cathederal (of sorts) to replace his old one in the occupied Eternal City (no, I don't know what H&H says). Gabriel has her Cathederal back in her possession, but during Armageddeon all its old Tethers were destroyed. Yves' Library is sort of a meta-Tether in itself, but the Demons have managed to totally isolate the Library from everything. (As someone else said, though, L-space cannot be denied forever...) Eli's Cathederal is in the Eternal City, occupied, and desecrated. Marc and Novalis no longer have Cathederals. Lilith, Nybbas and Andrealphus never -had- Cathederals. (And happy day, I just got my brand new Rand McNally road atlas today, which means I'm all set to send the DVPBEM group on a nice loooooong stroll... far, far, far away from that lone existing Tether... }:-{D) Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:56:24 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> I need advice and answers >At 4:26 PM +0200 12/13/97, Lassi Seppala wrote: >>2) Why is Coprporeal/Ethereal/Celestial Forces added to hand-to-hand combat >>skills but not to ranged weapon skills or non-combat skills? > >I wasn't around for that bit of game-mechanics. I *think* it may >have been because a Strength 12, Vessel/6 critter has 144 body hits. >Owch. Gotta get those CDs up so you can actually have a prayer >of vessel-killing a monster like that in any sort of finite time. > >It may be a way of denoting that there's more "adrenalin" or "focus" >going on in a hand-to-hand combat (or swordfight, or whatever) than >in other events. I don't know. If you don't like it, play with >it. If you get something fast and elegant... post it! O:> My solution for this was to change bare-handed Power from -3 to 0 and adjust other weapons to match. (For example, a .40-caliber handgun, 3 or 4 Power under the old rules, got bumped up to 5.) Simply put, you -can- kill with your hands, and it makes no sense to me to have a person score a hit, without the target ducking, and not do damage. That sort of thing is for -failed- attack rolls, not successes. (Then again, I also don't play autosuccess- any 11 or 12 roll except Diabolic Intervention is a failure in my games.) And if you're going to send a PC up against the The Incredible Malakite (TM), you need to give them an RPG. }:-{D >>3) It seems a little unrealistic and very uncinematic (Is that the right way >>to say it? Well you got the point, I hope) that you can only attack once in >>a five second round. Any comments about that? > >Okay, this is the "you are actually attacking all the time, >but you roll once to see if in all the feinting and stuff you >actually land a hit" sort of rule. It's because fights with >one-second GURPS rounds take forever in gametime and no time >at all otherwise, and nobody ever stops to rest without adding >complicated rules. The "one-second"/"several-second" combat >round is something that has been hashed out forever on other >boards than this... It generally boils down to "a matter of taste." > >If you don't like 5-second combat rounds, adjust to 1/2/3/4/10/30 >second combat rounds to suit. The Malakim in Black will not mind. I actually play 10-second rounds instead of 5. Simply put, anyone who makes more than one 'attack' in this time is either (1) a martial artist performing a combo move, which is really all one attack, or (2) screwing up, which counts as one attack (with stun possibilities if the Cherub falls on his ass laughing). }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:27:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire [Did I mention I'm doing this as a GM, not LE? I'm doing it now. GM.] At 1:36 PM -0600 12/15/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >Well, the point here is, a Servitor of Gabriel can't -do- anything else, >really, under these conditions. They can't, for example, go off and >investigate strange thefts in a certain district, or cattle mutilations in >the countryside, or the strange success of a series of local commercials. >They are so limited by their Dissonance requirements that they are mentally >handicapped. This is a GM call! The GM sets the threshold of "lock on" (if you use lock-on) or even the threshold of "cruel", and therefore is the sole determinant of how much leeway a Servitor of Gaby has to mess around. Pulling wings off of butterflies is nothing compared to somebody who's broken bones on their sig.other. The angel can walk by the kid with the bugs and whap him on the head with two fingers, and no problem. Unless you *want* to have them chasing after *every* harried parent who swats their kid in the supermarket. Mind you, a good Servitor *will* go after things below the threshold, but that's on its own time. >>> In the best of circumstances, the characters would concentrate >>>on their 'project' to the near exclusion of all else, making them difficult >>>to recruit for group assignments without Gabi's explicit orders. At worst, >>>they'd be totally obsessive about it, stalking and attacking full time, not >>>giving a Smite for demons (except Belial's bunch) because there's just so >>>much cruelty to punish. >> >>Demons are cruel too... > >Yes, except the Dissonance requirement appears to give preference to humans- >and there's a lot more humans on Earth than all Celestial creatures put >together. True -- though it doesn't *say* humans-only. It says "those who" are cruel in various ways. A Seraph of Fire can find a Balseraph who lies to himself about what kind of monster he is, etc. And a demon is much more likely to trigger the threshold... >A Servitor of Gabriel wouldn't -care- about the Demon slaying a human across >the street- he'd be too busy picking out the right size paddle to take care >of that kid who swings cats around by the tail that he's focused on at the >moment. I think that for something like that, the next time Gaby came by, she'd go, "Ah, good work. Dissonance? What dissonance? You're fine." Sort of like the Malakite of David situation. "I'm a demon. Nyah!" *BAM* "What's this dissonance, Servitor?" "I hit a demon first." "Cured." >>Actually, because of this, I might very well consider giving them >>a "one dissonance per cruel ignored -- and if the angel gives up >>trying, the dissonance stays *and* the Current Target slot becomes >>empty." Or a "one dissonance for ever multiple of the time period." > >The former is far too easy- in fact, it would largely eliminate the >mechanical usefulness of the 'focus.' What, now you argue for *more* strict stuff? >>>And finally, Ascending to Heaven is no escape- there are plenty of cruel >>>angels in Heaven, too. The work NEVER stops. >> >>Nonononono -- not necessarily. Cruel angels aren't doing it for >>selfish reasons (if they are, well... they're not in Heaven, they're >>Habbalah). They're doing it for tough love. They don't always *enjoy* >>being cruel, except to demons. > >One wonders, very severely, about Malakim in general on this... in >particular, I wonder about Uriel and his successor Laurence, and any >Archangel who chooses something very specific, like the Catholic Church, and >says, "This is God's Plan," and who chooses something else specific (like >creatures of myth) and says, "This is NOT in God's Plan." Well, obviously there's no real catagory of "Cruel to demons" in there? Hm... I think that only Kyriotates would be in any sort of trouble there. Maybe Seraphim. But this is, again, a GM call about whether or not they count as *cruel*. Do they enjoy causing pain, or do they enjoy defeating evil as they were made to do? And what's the appropriate response? It might be as simple as finding some way to give a firey lecture about sinking to the level of demons. (Of course, if you're using demonic Malakim, this becomes a very different sort of thing...) [And Laurence didn't say "This is God's Plan" -- he said, "This is the best I've seen, and I think it will be the way to get the most humans on the right path." He tried to manipulate events to make it better, after all -- this isn't a "This Is God's Plan" sort of thing to do... ] emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:31:23 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions > No problem. For most of this, my GM hat is on, and I'm sitting > on my LE hat. (So Em doesn't tryi to steal it...) Sheesh. Look at this repuation. I wasn't even in town that week, I swear. > >Which is exactly why I've asked this question. I'm interested in how > >GM's are ruling out there in Gamer-Land. [OOC: "Yeah! GM's Rul!"] > >There is no truth, even Canon isn't truth, IMHO... > > "It's all true." > > "Even the lies?" > > "Especially the lies." > > Me: "It just depends on which things are being true at the moment..." > > You just think you're telling the truth. Luckily, I dispensed the proper version of the truth to all of your closest friends, and gee, is this the phone number for your _parents_? I have a believe about Balseraph lies. I believe that the best lies are 99% true. Wheel of Politics, spin spin spin. - - Em, Gazin' at you with six eyed nasty. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:57:43 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Is it as easy as it seems to make Servitor of Fire >[Did I mention I'm doing this as a GM, not LE? I'm doing it now. GM.] > >At 1:36 PM -0600 12/15/97, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>Well, the point here is, a Servitor of Gabriel can't -do- anything else, >>really, under these conditions. They can't, for example, go off and >>investigate strange thefts in a certain district, or cattle mutilations in >>the countryside, or the strange success of a series of local commercials. >>They are so limited by their Dissonance requirements that they are mentally >>handicapped. > > This is a GM call! The GM sets the threshold of "lock on" >(if you use lock-on) or even the threshold of "cruel", and therefore >is the sole determinant of how much leeway a Servitor of Gaby has to >mess around. > >Pulling wings off of butterflies is nothing compared to somebody who's >broken bones on their sig.other. The angel can walk by the kid with >the bugs and whap him on the head with two fingers, and no problem. > >Unless you *want* to have them chasing after *every* harried parent >who swats their kid in the supermarket. Mind you, a good Servitor >*will* go after things below the threshold, but that's on its own time. What I want is a Servitor who can pick and choose their target at will, without random chance slapping them with Dissonance. That's why I don't like the 'lock-on' concept. >>A Servitor of Gabriel wouldn't -care- about the Demon slaying a human across >>the street- he'd be too busy picking out the right size paddle to take care >>of that kid who swings cats around by the tail that he's focused on at the >>moment. > >I think that for something like that, the next time Gaby came by, >she'd go, "Ah, good work. Dissonance? What dissonance? You're fine." >Sort of like the Malakite of David situation. "I'm a demon. Nyah!" >*BAM* "What's this dissonance, Servitor?" "I hit a demon first." >"Cured." In the former case, it's a matter of the current sanity of Gaby. In the latter, I'd totally disagree; the Servitor showed weakness of character, he deserves the Dissonance by David's lights and will have to work it off, Demon or no Demon. Again, GM opinion. >>>Actually, because of this, I might very well consider giving them >>>a "one dissonance per cruel ignored -- and if the angel gives up >>>trying, the dissonance stays *and* the Current Target slot becomes >>>empty." Or a "one dissonance for ever multiple of the time period." >> >>The former is far too easy- in fact, it would largely eliminate the >>mechanical usefulness of the 'focus.' > >What, now you argue for *more* strict stuff? outrage> Arguing against apparent inconsistency in your own concepts. }:-{D >>One wonders, very severely, about Malakim in general on this... in >>particular, I wonder about Uriel and his successor Laurence, and any >>Archangel who chooses something very specific, like the Catholic Church, and >>says, "This is God's Plan," and who chooses something else specific (like >>creatures of myth) and says, "This is NOT in God's Plan." > >Well, obviously there's no real catagory of "Cruel to demons" >in there? If you work for Novalis... Hm... I think that only Kyriotates would be in any >sort of trouble there. Maybe Seraphim. But this is, again, a >GM call about whether or not they count as *cruel*. Do they >enjoy causing pain, or do they enjoy defeating evil as they were >made to do? And what's the appropriate response? It might be as >simple as finding some way to give a firey lecture about sinking >to the level of demons. It depends on definition. My definition of cruelty is 'deriving pleasure from the suffering of others.' Gabi's Servitors don't have to worry about cruelty to demons- IIRC, that's specifically permissible- but cruelty to humans, or to other Angels, I could see in Angels who see themselves as promoting God's Will. Amazingly enough, I don't think Dommie is cruel. He's callous, but not cruel. >(Of course, if you're using demonic Malakim, this becomes a very >different sort of thing...) I don't, in general, since the normal thing can be quite bad enough at times. >[And Laurence didn't say "This is God's Plan" -- he said, "This is >the best I've seen, and I think it will be the way to get the most >humans on the right path." He tried to manipulate events to make >it better, after all -- this isn't a "This Is God's Plan" sort of >thing to do... ] It's the place of Angels to advance God's Plan. When human hands stray from the Path of Righteousness into the Poison Ivy of Corruption, one must take out the Weed Whacker of Purity and guide the misled and itchy back towards the Light of Calamine Lotion! }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:31:38 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2 This is, of course, all in anime, and all appropriately subtitled. Narrator: Somewhere out there in the Eternal City, there's a bomb... Shot of Large Vapulan Ticking Device, gleaming and glowing in an unpleasant manner, somewhere behind a dark partition. Narrator: ... and Heaven's running out of time. Novalis, looking out over the party in the Glade, with impossibly big anime eyes, "Last orders!" Narrator: There's only one squad who can hope to save Heaven... View of the Eternal City. There is a loud crash, and one of the Spires of Judgement slowly begins to tilt, before collapsing to the ground. Leoniel, red-haired Ofanite in a crisp black uniform, calls to the cute straw-haired Mercurian in her tank, "I said incendiary, not straight ammo!" Narrator: ... if there's any of it left when they've finished. The Archangel Beth, tearing her hair as papers flutter round her from the wind of the passing tank that has left neatly matching holes in either wall of the Archives. Narrator: They love their City... Elohite with spectacles, driving past heavenly scenery in tank at high speed. In tones of horror, "We just drove through the Halls of Invention!" Leoniel, bouncing in her tank, "And weren't they _wonderful_!" Narrator: ... their tanks ... Cherub with Big Moustache and bulging muscles, embracing tank and weeping, "No! No! I won't let them hurt you! I'll tear them limb from limb with my bare hands!" Narrator: ... their fellow angels ... Leoniel swivels cannon to point at big axe-carrying Seraph. "Say hyena again. Make my day." Narrator: ... and, of course, the Law. Cherub with Moustache, staring at _Big Gleaming Sword_ propped against wall, "You gave _who_ a parking ticket?" Narrator: They're out to save Heaven from the Forces of Darkness... Balseraph coils upwards, spreading wings, to cast big shadow over Leoniel in her tank below. Narrator: ... and anybody in their way is going to regret it. Two cat-eared and scantily-clad Lilim brandish large and exotic rifles at a pursuing squad of Malakim, then proceed to riddle them with gunfire. The timer on the bomb moves closer to zero. Lightning and thunder tear across the skies of Heaven. Laurence confronts a black-uniformed Dominic, slamming his fist on the table. "I want their badges! I want them stopped! I want them disbanded!" Leoniel, eyeing her new tank, "Just show me which bit the accelerator is." Narrator: Because they're the Law. IN NOMINE : DOMINICAN TANK POLICE Voiceover: "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition." - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:52:19 -0500 From: "Edward O'Toole" Subject: IN> Cool movie in the works Hi Gang, I don't know if it's already been mentioned on the list or not but in case your interested, Kevin Smith (Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy) is making a movie called Dogma. It's about two angels (actually and angel and a grigori) banished to earth by god, trying to use a loophole they found in Catholic dogma to get back into heaven. The script is Hilarious and the movie promises to follow suit. You can find the script at the script-o-rama web page. I recommend it to anyone who doesn't mind reading spoilers. You can find it here - (look for movie called Dogma, it's in HTML or Word ) http://www.script-o-rama.com/table.shtml Ed O'Toole ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:26:31 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > High forces usually mean high or respectable Strength anyway. Basing Fight > on 2X CorpForce won't change the average fight, but taking on bonuses for > Strength -will-. No more so than you making fists Power 0, Redneck. My damage bonus means that an average Celestial (Str 6) will do Power 0 with his fists. A low Strength one (Str 3, e.g.) will do Power -2 with his fists, and a combat monster (Str 11, e.g.) will do Power +2. What's the problem there? At WORST, you can do CD+3 damage, and that's with a Str 12! > If you don't think you can do major damage with just your hands, you don't > know much about fighting. So....you're refuting yourself here? :) > >i.e., double-CorpForces. It also makes automatic success in combat a bit > >less rare, which is good IMO...auto-successes in combat are RIDICULOUSLY > >common. > > Which is why I make rolls of 11 or 12 auto-failures. Even the most skilled > make mistakes. I make 12 an autofail, personally. At any rate, my suggestion mildly reduces the high target numbers of combat, and adds a damage bonus similar (but more varied and based on Str) to yours. So...what doncha like? Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! The Devil went down / to Newport town He brought his red surfboard / to race against the Lord It was totally rocking... totally rocking... "The Devil Went Down to Newport", Mono Puff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:36:51 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, A. wrote: > > > >> [Pee K] > > >from Strength, and leave Dodge alone> > > > >> 1) would this eliminate the appropriate combat skills? Fight, I > >> understand, but what about Large weapon and Ranged weapon and the like? > > > >No. Swords would use 2xCorpF + Large Wpn (Sword) as a target number. > > But Small Weapon and Ranged Weapon still roll off Precision instead of Strength. Small Wpn is Precision? Oh well, it should be Agility anyways. It uses the rules here. Guns don't. > >I disagree. WIth this new rule, players with high Strengths would still > >hit pretty accurately, having high CorpForces, *and* they would do a lot > >more damage, ending the fight faster! > > And what does this change? In the old system, players with high Strengths > hit accurately and can have damage bonuses. (9 and above get bonuses, and > every overkill point of (STR + Fight) also registers as a bonus.) > > *(Note: This is for standard IN combat, not the system in my games.) In the old system, you only get damage bonuses after you go past the autosuccess level! This is ridiculous both balance-wise (if you want to do major damage, you also end up hitting EVERY time...I hear the yellow brick road music playing here...) and common-sense-wise (a guy with Str 8 does NOT do more damage than a guy with Str 2 unless his Fighting skill takes him into overflow). "9 and above get a +1 bonus". Big deal. The Str 8, Fighting/1 guy doesn't get a bonus, and does just as much damage when he hits as the Str 2, Fighting/1 guy. The system is wacked. We can make up excuses "Well, the reason a higher ST means you hit more *often* is because it means you strike a SERIOUS blow more often than your opponent (even if he has 3x your Agility). Oh yeah, and the reason you don't do any more damage is because when he rolls a 6 it means he got lucky and when you roll a 1 it means you were unluck but when YOU roll that 6 it means you hit as hard as someone with your Str would be expected to. Or something." Strength should affect damage, and should (at most) have SOME effect on whether you hit...as much effect as Agility does, at least. It should *not* be the SOLE determiner for if you hit or not. One should be able to dish out massive damage with a high ST *without* autosuccessing every time. These two problems are what's wrong. My suggestion fixes them. THAT is what's different. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! The Devil went down / to Newport town He brought his red surfboard / to race against the Lord It was totally rocking... totally rocking... "The Devil Went Down to Newport", Mono Puff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:42:55 +0000 From: "Patrick Chester" Subject: Re: IN> IN Anime movie trailer : 2 > IN NOMINE : DOMINICAN TANK POLICE ROTFL! *recovers breathing* |Patrick Chester (aka: claypigeon, Sinapus) wolfone@io.com | |"So from now on I guess the operational phrase is 'trust no one.'" "No. | | Trust Ivanova, trust yourself, anybody else: Shoot 'em." -NSNR, Bab5 | |Wittier remarks always come to mind just after sending your article.... | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:55:10 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Kevin Walsh wrote: > Actually, the way I see it, the only difference here should be in the > capacity to absorb damage, measured by hits in In Nomine and the > Stamina+Fortitude pool in Vampire. 3 Health Levels inflicted on a Vampire > has the same effect as 3 Health Levels inflicted on a mortal, it's just > usually harder to inflict those levels on a Vampire. That is not correct. The dice pool penalties for successive levels of damage are more severe for mortals than for vampires. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! The Devil went down / to Newport town He brought his red surfboard / to race against the Lord It was totally rocking... totally rocking... "The Devil Went Down to Newport", Mono Puff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 22:09:21 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: IN> PK's Combat Rules Here...this is a draft of what I had in mind. I'd like comments and feedback. In Nomine New Combat Rules Draft 1.0 by Pee Kitty In combat, the resolution of each strike depends on three questions. Will my punch hit him? How much damage will it do? Can he dodge it? This revision contains improved rules for handling these questions in an intelligent and playable manner. Corporeal combat is assumed here; other forms of combat substitute the appropriate Forces and characteristics, though the skills remain the same. Will my punch hit him? Or my knife? Or any other non-ranged weapon I use? The target number for the attacker in hand-to-hand combat is twice his Corporeal Forces plus Fighting skill. Combat with hand weapons uses the appropriate weapon skill instead of Fighting skill. If a skill is not known, default penalties apply. Combat with ranged weapons is a special case; use the skills as written. Rationale: Corporeal Forces, doubled, represents the average of Strength and Agility. Both traits are needed to successfully land a meaningful blow in combat. How much damage will it do? The Power of most attacks is shown on p. 62 of the In Nomine book. All non-ranged attacks add half the attacker’s Strength (rounded down) to their Power. For example, a demon with Strength 8 punches a human. A punch has Power -3 and the demon adds +4 for his Strength for a final Power of +1. Ignore the rule which states that a Strength of 9 or Fighting/5 add to Power; this rule replaces that one. Steel-toed boots or a roll of quarters still add +1 to Power. Rationale: Strength is raw physical power, which governs the damage one can do. Can he dodge it? Unless he does not see the attack coming, or he is concentrating (on a Song, for example) and does not want to stop concentrating, the opponent can attempt to Dodge by rolling against Agility plus Dodge skill. Default penalties apply if the Dodge skill is not known. Even ranged weapon attacks can be Dodged (though Acrobatics skill (q.v.) will not help in this case). The check digit of the Dodge is subtracted from the damage done by the attack; if this reduces damage to 0 or less, the attack did not hit. A special form of risk, “preemptive dodging”, may be used as well. A defender can begin dodging before the punch is followed through by guessing where the attacker will strike. The Dodge roll is made at -2 (-1 if the defender has Tactics/5 or better). On a success, if the check digit is equal to or higher than the attacker’s check digit (before adding Power), the attack misses completely. If the check digit is less, the attack hits normally. If the Dodge roll fails, the check digit is added to the damage done, as the defender Dodges right into the strike! Spending the turn “full-dodging”, and doing nothing else, adds +2 to any Dodge roll. Rationale: Agility governs how fast one can move and react physically. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! The Devil went down / to Newport town He brought his red surfboard / to race against the Lord It was totally rocking... totally rocking... "The Devil Went Down to Newport", Mono Puff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:04:33 -0600 From: rbeall@fdldotnet.com (Grim88) Subject: IN> Superior Pickup lines Well, I was just shoveling snow one day and a few of these came to me. The list is far from complete, and I would enjoy seeing what others come up for them. Thanks to Nana Yaw Ofori for David's. Yves: I'm your Destiny. Litheroy: You show me yours, I'll show you mine. Laurence: Wanna hold my sword? David: I'm already naked. Your move. Gabriel: Is it hot in here, or is it just me? Belial: Is it hot in here, or is it just you? Beleth: I'll have you screaming my name tonight. Kronos: It is your Fate to be forever alone. Cya. Haagenti: I wanna eat your body. (or) You look good enough to eat. Fleurity: Can I buy you a drink? Dominique: You been a very, very bad boy.... Valefor: I'm here to steal you heart. Furfur: Hurt me! Hurt me! Zadkiel: Just put this on, and we can proceed. Christopher: I've got a Catholic private school outfit that would look *great* on you... Mammon: Do you have any friends? The more the merrier! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:01:42 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: Re: IN> Movie Trailer On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Patrick Chester wrote: > > Hahaha! > > > > Okay - I'll take it, but only if Jackie makes at least one combat > > appearance... > > Of course, the question is: Is Jackie Chan a Celestial or a Soldier > of God? ;-) > No, he's a Mundane, of course. "Did that hurt?" "Yes!" Jason so this is the hong kong supercop ive heard so much about ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:05:10 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Other Vessel Questions >>>Yes. One. Much as I hate to admit this, ICE's system (RoleMaster, MERP, etc.) does include many things in its critical tables, and that is one of them. Including the nice touch that *female* opponents that take this crit. are stunned by your obvious stupidity.<<< I dunno....it may not be quite as sensitive a target area for those who don't have external gonads, but I understand that getting kicked in the crotch is no picnic for a woman either.... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:05:12 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Kyriotates and Vessels >>>"...It's dissonant for them, because.." I know this, David, but thank you for treating me as though I'm a complete newcomer to the list who probably hasn't even picked up the book yet.<<< You have a tendency to make absolute statements allowing for no possibility of contradiction. Don't get offended when I feel a need to contradict you. >>>Dissonance is a result of doing something that's an antithesis to their nature, and doing it often warps them, whether by Falling or Discord. I meant "can't" in the sense that I "can't" wrap my leg backwards around my waist... theoretically, I COULD, I'd just have to break it in several places first. It's a perfectly valid, if not technically absolute, use of the term, "can't".<<< But that is not an accurate analogy. Seraphin CAN and DO lie -- not all of them, but certainly there are times when a Seraph is forced by circumstances to be less than truthful and eat dissonance, and it probably happens a lot more often than people wrap their legs backwards around their waists. It's not as damaging either -- as long as they do it very rarely. Celestials *can* and DO violate their Choir/Band restrictions -- that's part of the friggin' game! A good chunk of In Nomine stories are based on celestials being forced to either become dissonant or find creative ways to avoid becoming dissonant. When you said Seraphim -can't- lie, by way of comparing them with Kyriotates who supposedly shouldn't be able to put all their Forces into one vessel, you were making an incorrect statement to support a fallacious position. Now, your point about the Kyriotates' dissonance conditions being significantly different, compared to their resonance, from those of every other Choir, was much more pertinent. I would be inclined to agree with you to an extent, which is why I suggested earlier that IF a Kyriotate went around occupying a buddy's vessel for prolonged periods of time, you should start inflicting dissonance. As far as WHY their dissonance condition is to not hurt their hosts, as opposed to "not putting all their eggs in one basket", I'd say the reason (besides game balance) is that this is a deliberate design feature by God - -- as has been pointed out before, Kyriotates are in many ways the most frightening and potentially harmful Choir when it comes to interacting with mortals. This was His way of making sure that Kyrios aren't allowed to get careless and abuse the great power with which He has entrusted them. - -David ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #516 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.