From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Dec 17 03:41:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA17044 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:41:21 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id DAA29397 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:33:59 -0600 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:33:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199712170933.DAA29397@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #521 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, December 17 1997 Volume 01 : Number 521 In this digest: Re: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> capturing an angel IN> Story IN> DVPBEM Combat Resolution Re: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> Gypsy Demons Re: IN> Hebrew in IN and fluff. Re: IN> IN Character Sheet .BMP Re: IN> PK's Combat Rules (trying AGAIN) IN> To trap an Angel Re: IN> Story Re: IN> capturing an angel Re: IN> PK's Combat Rules (trying AGAIN) IN> Combat and In Nomine Game style Re: IN> Songs (Other Vessel Questions) Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions Re: IN> capturing an angel Re: IN> Songs (Other Vessel Questions) Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:38:26 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions > In a message dated 12/16/97 10:19:10 AM, you wrote: > > >True, but claymores aren't in common use these days. }:-{D > > > >Redneck > > "What's Green, Square, and says 'This Side Towards Enemy?'" A dumb Malakim of Novalis? ;-) Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 03:46:01 +0000 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> capturing an angel Donato Ranzato wrote: > So, is there a way you can capture and imprison an angel (he has no > dissonance (yet) so i canīt use Dissonance Binding on him). First of all, Dissonance Binding only reduces a Celestial's Agility and prevents Essence spending or regeneration: yes, this prevents him from taking Celestial Form, but there are still loopholes. First of all: Kyriotates. They can body-hop, create a Celestial Form that can then run like the clappers and jump into a nearby vessel at any sign of a hostile Celestial approaching, and if they get far away enough just stay in Celestial form out of a vessel and wait to be dragged back to heaven. Secondly: suicide. If you're not careful, the angel will just kill himself if he has at all a chance, and poof, he ends up in Heaven. Granted, for all but Malakites this is a risky situation with the possibility of perpetual Trauma, but it's probably worth the risk. Hell, if you're that committed to killing yourself to avoid being captured by demons, I'll give you an autosuccess on your Trauma roll, just because you're that determined. (Although it's quite difficult to beat yourself up in a prison cell, you can fairly easily run against a wall, fracture your skull, and die either of the injury or of the subsequent bleeding.) However, in your favour you have the 2 Essence cost of taking Celestial Form - just make sure the angel doesn't have enough Essence, and he's trapped. There's precious little an angel can do to regenerate Essence through rites when locked in a prison cell, and even attempting to summon an Archangel isn't going to be that easy. As for how you drain Essence out of a Celestial: lots of Celestial Charm and an Impudite or two. And, of course, your main method is good ol' Vapula. His lot are always coming up with weird stuff to do nasty things to angels; just slap those nasty-looking handcuffs on the angel. This also gives you plot, as you have to explain how the vampires got them (tricky, as Vapula and Saminga are hostile), and the handcuffs will probably go wrong at some point, or Servitors of Lightning will charge in, or something. Anyway, hope this helps. Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/cgi/illuminati Down with categorical imperative! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:13:52 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: IN> Story Q: You understand that this is a preliminary hearing, for the record, prior to judgment, and that this will have no impact on your judgment in any way. A: I understand. Q: State your name, rank and identification number for the record. A: True name? Q: Secure nomenclature will be adequate. A: My name is Mark, rank GA-2Q, suspended, and my identification number is twelve thirty two. Q: Please state the nature of your involvement in the operations on Day Zero. A: I was the primary pilot. Q: Describe, in as much detail as you can, the events leading up to Day Zero. A: Well, it was the big one, wasn't it? We'd been training for this for a long time. I was assigned to the primary flight about two weeks earlier. Q: The documentation indicates that the assignment was released on December 12. A: That is correct to the best of my knowledge, yes. Q: Please continue. A: Well, like I say, we had been training for a long time, but I went in to get some simulator hours just the same. My wingman was Tom, he was good, maybe better than me. We were assigned to fly the new NXL6 unit, and we ran those simulators ragged. We must have logged a hundred hours on the thing. Q: Documentation indicates one hundred twenty three. A: The flight plan was simple. Primary injection, rendezvous at Glory Station to acquire payload, ten units of primary and a hundred units of secondary. From Glory to a ten target list, with the hundred units of secondary for discretionary targets. Q: Describe the nature of discretionary targets. A: It's not a simple idea. What we're trained to do is deliver the primary at all costs, but we don't want to screw up anything along the way too badly. Now the research boys developed this secondary stuff which is not quite so powerful, but generally fits right in and may actually help the primary do its job on the target. So you don't just fire it at anybody but you do have the choice if you think spraying a little of it around is going to help you get the primary to the target. Q: Please continue. Describe your pre-flight activities. A: Well, the briefing was short. We'd read the paperwork so many times that we could have given the briefing ourselves. We got the feathersuits on and headed for the flight line. Of course the hangar was packed, all the technicians and mechanics and servitors were there, and I had never really seen the NXL6 before, and there it was, big and golden and quiet. It was amazing. Sam was there: she rubbed my ring once and said "For luck." When we kissed, I remember, they clinked together. I haven't seen Sam since I got back. I've been in quarantine, so I haven't... Q: Please continue with your description of the mission. A: Okay. First of all, we got into the birds. It was absolutely unbelievable. The engines were purring like something alive and even with the flywheels disengaged you could feel it was as smooth as glass. Anyway, the buzzer went off and everybody stepped back behind the purple line and we started the diagnostics. Everything checked out. Q: The documentation bears this out. Is it possible a mistake was made, or a warning light was overlooked? A: No. Negative. Everything was double-checked. If anything was amber, we would have held countdown. We didn't want to screw up Day Zero, we weren't joking around, we weren't cracking wise on the commo. This was maybe the most important mission that had been flown since the Six Days', and we weren't going to mess it up by saying something was okay when it wasn't. Q: Please continue. A: Okay. So when I thumbed the throttle forward a notch and eased her out, it was smooth and quick and...well, I don't know how I can describe it unless you've flown before. It was like it was supposed to be. And when I eased back to park it so they could strap the payload tanks on, it just stopped. Took my breath away, so to speak. The tanks went on without a hitch. Now, between the line and the injection array is a space where we generally do a few shakedown maneuvers, test out the speed, the gyros, that sort of thing, just basic action to get the feel of the suit. Nothing fancy. I'm telling you, the NXL6 is the best thing I ever flew since I got my wings. Q: During the shakedown, did any sort of equipment malfunction present itself? A: No. None. Even the heat indicator barely got off the peg. Q: When you reached the primary injection point, there was a secondary diagnostic test scheduled. A: Yes. The results were the same as the first. Q: Was it performed with the same care as the first? A: Yes. Q: You indicated that you were more confident of the NXL6 unit's capabilities after the shakedown flight. A: Yes. Q: This confidence did not make you less careful in the injection diagnostic? A: No. The primary injection is the most dangerous part of most missions, and if you don't get aligned properly in the accelerator, you'll get ripped apart on realspace entry. If anything, we are generally more careful at the injection diagnostic. Q: Please continue. A: Once we were within a few arcs of the injection point, we switched control over to the array crew and they locked us into place. Primary injection is a rough ride, no matter what you're flying. Everything goes white and black and it feels like you're falling, or what you imagine falling must feel like. Anyway, you're sure the thing is going to shake to pieces but it doesn't. Everything gets cold and then there's a jerk, and you're there, way up in orbit and the whole place looks beautiful, blue and big and beautiful, and then your stick lights up and you're back in control. We dropped in on the head of a pin, right on target. The spires of Glory Station pointed down, and through the upper windows of the station we could see a big party, everyone laughing and dancing. Some of them put big signs up to the window, you know the kind, "Day 0", "Don't give them hell." "Come marching in." When the commo opened, some joker put on "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas." It was pretty funny. But anyway it stopped pretty quick and we got down to business. They assigned us to the designated orbit right on schedule. We fired the thrusters to bring us in line with the big dish. The song disappeared from the commo, and the voice came on saying he was Glory 1A and he was assigned to be our handler. We exchanged sign and countersign - - it checked out. Q: The countersign was given exactly? A: Yes. Security was very tight around the whole operation. Q: Please continue. A: We got aligned in the array for the payload pickup. There was only a low hum and the NXL6 barely swerved when the tanks filled. I got a long row of green lights. Tom reported the secondary being properly loaded a moment later. Q: Did you check your wingman's diagnostic to ensure the secondary payload was loaded properly? A: No. Q: Did he check yours? A: I don't know. The telemetry bulb was nearly constantly flickering once we were in sync formation, with all the navigational data he was acquiring from my controls. Q: Do you usually check the payload? A: No. Glory Station has sensors that are a lot more sensitive than our internal systems. They would know immediately if something was loaded wrong. Q: And nobody at Glory 1A told you anything was wrong. A: Correct. Q: Please continue. A: After the payload was acquired, we began the navigational locks. The dirtsiders were right on the money as far as we could tell. Q: Describe the navigational process. A: Beacons of two varieties were left on the surface by intelligence operatives: reference and targeting. The reference grid was to facilitate the navigational computations - the targeting beacons would be placed as near the primary targets as possible. Q: The navigational markers were properly set out and activated? A: To the best of my knowledge, yes. Q: Please continue. A: We laid in a course for our first target, the governor of Syria. The beacon transmission said he was at home. We jacked up the throttle and turned on the stealth field. I don't know if you've ever done any slowfall insertions, but it's an amazing sight. The whole planet tilting below you, the air ripping along your nose, tearing along your wings, it's an amazing feeling. We hit the first nav point and started our approach. The mission profile said each target would receive one unit of primary, so I thumbed the switch to cycle the tank and load the tubes. That was when the alarm went off. Q: What alarm was that? A: The first one I saw was the primary containment field - before the secondary field could get powered up, the lateral synchronizers had already gone. I managed to tell Tom there was a problem when there was a squeal of feedback and the commo went dead. The nav system screen turned red and I heard the engines choke, and I knew something was seriously wrong. I had no visual contact with Tom and I was miles from the target. Q: In other words, immediate and complete mechanical failure. A: That's correct. Q: Please continue. A: I knew...I knew I had to do something, anything, trying to save the mission, so the Intel boys wouldn't have to scrub their insertion, so all of this wouldn't have gone for nothing, I didn't know what to do. I just didn't know what to do. Nothing like this had ever happened before. I didn't want to just eject, abort, and let the whole thing go to waste. I didn't want to be a total failure. So I brought what few sensors were left online and started looking for discretionary targets that maybe we could limp to before we went completely down. I don't know how long it took...I managed to get a glimpse of Tom, reflected off the water of a lake once. He was still behind me in formation, so I guess the telemetry setup held even though the bulb blew. I was flying without any instruments, nothing, everything was dead. I hit the manual override on the payload delivery system and lined up on the new targets. There they were: about six or seven scruffy-looking guys out in the hills, some sleeping, some watching...there were these sheep...milling around. I didn't have time to think twice, we were still blasting along at insertion speed. I pulled the trigger. There was a whoomph sound, and every light that was red went black, and everything that wasn't red went red. The autoeject was fused. I guess I must have pulled the handle because the next thing I knew, I was floating down in the feathersuit listening to Tom screaming into the headset the emergency signal to Glory Station. I felt blood on my face. Tom just kept yelling: "Glory 1A! Glory 1A! NXL6 - Day 0! Glory 1A! Glory 1A! NXL6 - Day 0!" "Shut up!" I finally screeched. "I'm going to quiet running. Beacon's on. They'll get us." Tom stopped yelling and started sobbing, and a minute later, I did too. Q: Thank you. That is all for now. A: Can I say something? Q: Yes. A: It turned out all right, didn't it? I mean, it wasn't the targets we were hoping to get, but. It wasn't the rich and powerful that got the payload, but. Maybe the -plan- was wrong and the mission...it turned out okay. Do you know what I mean? Didn't it turn out okay? Q: That's not for you to decide. A: No, sir. Q: Or I. A: No, sir. Q: That is all for now. You are dismissed. A: Thank you, sir. - ------------------------ Merry Christmas, everyone. Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:45:43 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: IN> DVPBEM Combat Resolution >> I'm rethinking the combat system I use, but it will be based on STR + FIGHT. >> It will not allow automatic success on any but the simplest of tasks. It >> will provide only modest, if any, bonuses for super-strength. It will have a >> more sensible and easy to understand weapons system. And most importantly, >> it will be as simple as I can possibly make it. > >I'd like to see what you come up with. It might give me some ideas. > Okay, to make it nice and sweet, here's what I'm working with at the moment. I feel that bare hands, unassisted, should be Power 0, so I threw out the Power list almost completely, using it only as a reference for how to adjust other attacks upward. Bumping everything up works for Celestials by and large, but not for weak characters, who can be killed by two punches. I use STR -or- WILL for the basis of fighting- whichever is higher. I give no strength bonuses. I give overkill points. I declare all 11 or 12 rolls to be automatic failures (except for a 666). All attacks are automatically Dodged, unless: * The target is stunned, unconscious, or otherwise unable to move * The target cannot see the attack coming (back shot) * The target is surprised -and- the attacker has a higher Agility (Corp fight) or Perception (Cel fight) than the target * The target is doing something which takes up 100% of his concentration or effort (Songs, Celestial movement, etc.) The net result: two dice rolls. Fight roll failed - no damage Fight roll successful, Dodge roll successful - Check digit of former - - Check digit of latter, no lower than 0, in damage Fight roll successful, Dodge roll failed - Full check digit in damage. In the PBEM, once I've got the math down, I rewrite it into a semblance of cinematic combat. (Unfortunately, turn-based combat doesn't lend itself well to this. You'll see the results as soon as the people in the DVPBEM all get back to Earth safely. Now, I was getting what I considered decent results with this system, but debating with PK pointed out a flaw- the whole system would grind down weak characters in nothing flat. There has to be a way of using non-negative weapons values without stomping an average human into the ground with two punches. Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:52:47 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions > >In a message dated 12/16/97 10:19:10 AM, you wrote: > >>True, but claymores aren't in common use these days. }:-{D >> >>Redneck > >"What's Green, Square, and says 'This Side Towards Enemy?'" > A Portable Hole. }:-{D Redneck Kris Overstreet, will write for food... | "It's Christmas in Heaven, http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck | there's great shows on TV; c/o White Lightning Productions | the Sound of Music twice an hour http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ | and Jaws I, II and III." Webmaster for Antarctic Press | --- A Nybbas Christmas http://www.antarctic-press.com/ | ***QUESTION EVERYTHING*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:48:22 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Gypsy Demons At 07:37 PM -0200 11/07/1997, Andre Ribeiro wrote: > Folks, I need some input here... No, it's more an opinion... > If you'd involve the gypsies with demons - which Demon Prince would >suit them better?? > > Andre, D.P. Quite frankly, I'd lean towards Valefor (Janus?), with Lilith taking some passing interest, they're very much attuned towards the Word of Freedom and they generally get nothing but dumped on by any sort of authority. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:43:26 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Hebrew in IN and fluff. At 02:22 AM +0000 11/06/1997, Sam Kington wrote: > >Their real name means cabbages, artists paint them as cute chubby babies >- Kobal (or someone) *really* has it in for Cherubs ;-). > >Sam >-- A short-lived Calabim of Kobal to a couple of Cherubs-- "Look! Cabbage Patch Angels!" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:59:45 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> IN Character Sheet .BMP >> Dissatisfied with the existing character sheets, for being too hard to >> >> copy, to small to use (just blowing them up isn't enough; more lines >> then >> have to be added, etc.), and lacking one or two additional spaces I'm >> used >> to (Experience Points, Played By), I made up my own. It's very, VERY >> similar to the existing ones, but with a few additions; it's best >> printed >> on a full page. >> > >I wish somebody would have this idea before... >Good idea Pee Kitty! > The acrobat PDF's on the InNominee Web Page are full sheet jobbies worlds better than the sheets in the books. And they print very nicely on Postscript devices. The original files are apparantly QuarkXpress documents using a font called Morpheum. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:28:33 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> PK's Combat Rules (trying AGAIN) I'm getting peeved by all of this. In less than 24 hours, I've seen the same set of suggested rules mailed to the list some ten times. Most of us who are on this list haven't replied, I suspect, because we've been wading through the noise. There was one point at which reply and counter-reply between PK and RG were running on at least two parallel tracks. My suggestion would be to wait something like five to twenty-four hours before sending us anything more on this topic. I agree with both of you that the current mechanics suck. My solution has nothing to do with dealing with tweaking them to make them more "realistic" (whatever *that* means). See my previous letter for that suggestion. Mark(Ursus Arctos Arctos, signing off...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:42:21 -0600 From: ehp Subject: IN> To trap an Angel >So, is there a way you can capture and imprison an angel (he has no dissonance (yet) so i canīt use Dissonance Binding on him). Any suggestions or ideas are welcomed. Donato Ranzato Angel of frustrated GMīs One of the classic GM problems. The effective trap against the high powered PC. I myself know a few players that would rather have their characters die than remain trapped... Anecdote: A gurps chambara martial artist is knocked unconscious in a fight and locked in a cell. When he awakens, he breaking blows everything in sight... the chains, the door, the walls... Until he is about to break free, So the baddies drug him. This was a cop out solution, since what you usually want is a character trapped and TALKING / THINKING, not using funky abilities to escape. Here are my solutions: (1) in game system: Use a deus ex machina... chains of corporeality or whatever, that have to be broken to be escaped so you can't take them with you. (2) The zombies are slow essence drainers... if they have a trapped celestial, they can slowly leach all the essence out of it. So poor angel wakes up with no ability to Sing or Shift into Celestial form. They could probably call on their superior, but can you picture the dressing down they would get... (Gabriel! Help!) (What? DIdn't I speak with you yesterday?) (Er, well, you see...) (Let me get this straight. You let yourself get mugged by ZOMBIES and lost all the essence My rites have been giving you? What have I been teaching you for the last 4000 years? Use it or loose it! Maybe I should reconsider my favoured servitor list...) (Gulp!) (3) My personal favourite: Make a situation when the angel wakes up, that if ther try to escape by whatever means, some innocent people die. EG... the angel is sitting on a pressure pad. Pressure pad connects to the next room where a family of villiagers have been hoarded in. Big bomb. Or, if the angel can stop such mechanical traps, make it magical or Song related. Or, the simplest, and easiest... Threaten the hostages. (You think you can hold me?) (No, actually I do not. But I do think I can ask you not to leave.) (I will never do as you ask!) (Well, on that note...) click on television monitor (say hello to Willy, Charlie and Bess... And Lefty, Spike and Slash, their permanant ... guards. Now, I have a terrible memory, you see, and these... gentlemen have orders that if I should forget to send them a no-hurt-the-innocent signal every five minutes, then they in turn would perform terrible acts of violence. And you leaving here... well, what can I say? It would make me forget so many other things...) (You Feind!) (I know... I know.) That is about the best (or worst) I could come up with on the spur of the moment. Evan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:58:05 +0000 From: "Nathaniel Eliot" Subject: Re: IN> Story > Merry Christmas, everyone. > > > Jason Slow and painful, Jason - slow and painful... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@ix.netcom.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:10:25 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> capturing an angel > lair of the vampires, where he was chained to a wall. Now is my problem, > how I can keep him imprisoned. I mean, when he wakes up, he can just "go > celestial" and escape. The solution is so simple, it's elegant: make the chains Celestial artifacts. Then, when the angel goes celestial, the chains go celestial -as well-. The special ability of the chains? To remain anchored in whatever surface they're mounted, regardless of state (corporeal or celestial). That way he won't be able to pull the chains out of the wall and take them with him when he leaves. If you want to be cruel, make them Essence drains, as well. Leeching one Essence every hour or so should be enough for your nefarious purposes. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:17:15 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> PK's Combat Rules (trying AGAIN) On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, MarkDEddy wrote: > I'm getting peeved by all of this. In less than 24 hours, I've seen the same > set of suggested rules mailed to the list some ten times. Unless someone else is doing it, it should be twice at the MOST. I sent it once, and later got replies from several people asking me "Where are your rules? I never saw them." So I resent 'em. Aside from those two posts, I personally have not seen anyone else repost them. > Most of us who are > on this list haven't replied, I suspect, because we've been wading through the > noise. Maybe it *did* get through the first time...a few people said it didn't. > I agree with both of you that the current mechanics suck. My solution has > nothing to do with dealing with tweaking them to make them more "realistic" > (whatever *that* means). See my previous letter for that suggestion. Okay... Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! The Devil went down / to Newport town He brought his red surfboard / to race against the Lord It was totally rocking... totally rocking... "The Devil Went Down to Newport", Mono Puff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:23:35 -0600 From: ehp Subject: IN> Combat and In Nomine Game style One of the things that I liked about the IN combat system when i first read it was that it seemed just like a simplification of the Gurps system, so that someone could just pick up the game and go for it rather than spending six months trying to remember half of the rules (which is the average length of time for new gurps players in my experience) Well, you have convinced me. I was wrong. The system is not as simple as I would have liked. But, I still enjoy the genre. Just like I enjoy the genre of, say the WoD or Shadowrun or Rifts... but do not like the systems much. So we come to the question... what are the problems? And can they be fixed, or more correctly, what can be done on an individual level to make the system more suit the style of gaming that the genre demands. Issues: (1) Hit points vary from angel to angel in ludicrous fashion. The middle high end have so many hit points that it takes hours of RPG time to whittle them down. While the low end have been blown away in the first combat round, and have gone for drinks while the others finish. (2) A fight requires several modifiers to be taken into account that basically slow things up. (3) The check dice is a pain to locate with the other dice if you ever actually Do roll them together. I tend to control the 1st issue by as GM, having a hand in charater generation, so that the variations are within my ability to make fair for all. The second I tend to ignore. And the last is solved by reverting to the old system of a success roll followed by a damage roll. If I were to alter a system like this one at all it would be to simplify it further, to try to reduce the second factor. Range modifiers? either it is in range and you can shoot it normally, or it is not and you can not. Darkness modifiers? All are equally subject to them so no one has any advantages and it all evens out. Footing modifiers? Who cares. The higher fighting skill should still be able to cope with it. Basically the cinematics of the situation are much more important than what the dice are saying in this style of system, at least im my opinion. Hit point suggestion: Add the Total forces of the entity at the end as a constant. Thus even the physically weakest celestial will be able to survive a punch or two, and the toughest will not have too much of a bonus. Or, do this: HP = (Corp forces+level of body)x(str/2) + (total forces). This one cuts down the top and middle ends (which I always thought were a bit ludicriously high) and gives a nice buffer at the low end. And your average mortal ends up about the same. I mean, do we really want corp 4 entities to have 50+hit points? Combats end up lasting 8-15 rounds. I don't know about you, but I think a combat that lasts more than 6 rounds is BORING, and a hicup in the plot flow. And if you are looking for suggestions on how to make the actual hand to hand more easy and quicker... Don't roll dodge. Take dodge skill as normal, and if a player is judged that they can dodge, then they reduce the damage done to them by half this amount. the end. Well, those are my ideas of the moment. hope they help someone out there. Evan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 01:26:08 EST From: "Perry M. Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Songs (Other Vessel Questions) Jason Corley said with much coolness: >On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > >> > >> > Two words: Numinous Corpus, Baby. >> >> Too noisy, too obvious, and leave very *strange* wounds on dead >> bodies. > >But it's so -cool-! That which is cool must triumph for coolness is the way of all good things. I entreat thee, gaze upon the wonders of nature, that which God did create. See its inherent coolness. Witness the Glory of He Who Is Cool and bask in His Coolness. When all is cool in the world and none are without coolness, then we will achieve Ascension, wait, I mean, then we will be one with Him. The Great Game Master of the Game of Life. G.O.D. (Game Operator Designate) Ok, too fluffy. Kill it where it lies or label it fluff. !!:)!! - -Perry Perry M. Lloyd "Amidst my scarcely-strifled groans, Amidst my moaning deep, I heard a voice, "Wake! Mr. Jones, You're screaming in your sleep!" -Lewis Carrol (from "Horrors"-1850) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:13:42 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions In a message dated 12/16/97 12:34:10 AM, Pkitty@cris.com writes: <> Unfortunately, in my opinion/experience (as someone who grew up with Judo, Jujitsu, and Quarterstaff training), stronger people *don't* necessarily do more damage. More accurate people do more damage. People who have a longer lever arm do more damage. People who use knives or swords or staves do more damage. Precision (the statistic) has a great deal more to do with damage than Strength (the statistic). Combat, as far as I've ever seen, is much more in the Ethereal Realm than in the Corporeal Realm. Strength actually has more to do with being able to take damage, or do damage to something that isn't fighting back, and Agility is getting out of the way. But then, I use the Paranoia Dramatic Combat system, and avoided this question in the first place. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:00:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> capturing an angel > >So, is there a way you can capture and imprison an angel (he has no > >dissonance (yet) so i can4t use Dissonance Binding on him). Any > >suggestions or ideas are welcomed. > IIRC, Dominic gives out a distinction which allows you to bind them in Corporeal Form and prevent them using Songs, etc. if you beat them in a contest of Wills. Maybe Asmodeus or Baal has something similar. If it's Vampires we're talking about, the big limitation will be the amount of Essence the Warder has to spend during the contest, since the Angel would presumably have a higher Will. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:11:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Songs (Other Vessel Questions) > > > Interesting... I almost buy Songs as an afterthought. Skills > > > are _much_ more reliable (they are based on attributes, not forces) > > > and usually less noisy. I almost always take at least two songs > > > though (Healing is a good 'un!) > > > > Two words: Numinous Corpus, Baby. > > Too noisy, too obvious, and leave very *strange* wounds on dead > bodies. Noisy? They have no degree of disturbance apart from the Essence cost. And if you expect a fight to take place, it's only five minutes preparation to get a +3 modifier on your roll. Assuming you're not singing your Song in public it's not exactly terribly obvious. They're retractable in any event, and last for hours. As for the wounds, killing anyone is a problem because it can be laid at your door sooner or later. My guess is that there are Servitors of Asmodeus out there who make damn sure things like this go into the looney file. IMO, good only if you are a Kyrio/Shedim - then, you can't > be sure your vessel is carrying a weapon, or is even capable of it. > > And if you have a problem with carrying weapons all the time, take > the +4 modifier Summonable for 1 Essence. > > a) That doesn't appear in the rulebook, and not every GM is going to allow you to make up your own funky modifiers. b) Not every GM is going to allow artifacts either. They're supposed to be rare, right? c) In many ways, it's just as noisy and obvious as Numinous Corpus. After all, given that people were searched and no weapons were allowed, how did that gun get in? And it has the same Essence cost. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:24:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Other Vessel Questions > But yes, I think vampires are underpowered. Some ways to fix this: > > 1) Give all vampires the Vampiric Kiss attunement automatically, > in addition to the 10 points for another attunement. > I reckon this probably makes more sense than the others. And let's fact it, any Vampire who wants a reliable Essence supply will want to buy it anyway. > 2) Give all vampires a sixth force. > Maybe... > 3) Give vampires the points for their discord, possibly instead > of the 10 points they are given. > I dunno about that. I'm pretty sure that's how it works for Renegades, Outcasts, and Calabites, but the scale of the discord is rather larger in the case of Vampires, and it was put in place to stop their Soul falling into bits, after all. (Does that mean that any Prince/Archangel could destroy the Vampire by removing one point of its vulnerability to sunlight?) > > Personally, I am changing a lot of things in In Nomine anyway, so > vampires will be different anyway. Basically, while mummies need to > be created by a demon, and use several forces from Abbadon (or > wherever the forces are being drawn from), vampires are > self-perpetuating. They are less powerful, but require less work and > less forces from Hell to create - in some cases, they don't require > any at all. This has made them a minor force in their own right, and > one that is no longer wholly under the control of Hell... > > Muahahahaha! For a really scary NPC, have a 7-8 Force Vampire with the Vampiric Kiss and Zombi attunements. Just use Ethereal Attraction/really good combination of Seduction and Charisma to get the Essence off someone (coincidentally killing them) and use the Essence to raise their corpses. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #521 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.