From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Mar 4 16:08:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00007; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:28:58 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA28090 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:31:53 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:31:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199703042031.OAA28090@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #53 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, March 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 053 In this digest: Re: IN> Kyriotates/Shedim and host's health IN> Human Types Canon, rev. IN> The Marches Canon(?) IN> Excel 97/5.0 Character Creation sheets Re: IN> Auction Update and the Combat System Re: IN> Auction Update and the Combat System IN> Talisman Costs IN> New NetRep/John Karakash IN> Diabolic Plan. Re: IN> Talisman Costs IN> Talisman Trackers Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 Re: IN> Auction Update and the Combat System Re: IN> New NetRep/John Karakash Re: IN> Talisman Costs IN> (Fwd) Number of vessels for Kyriotates of Jordi Re: IN> Talisman Costs Re: IN> Talisman Costs Re: IN> Kyriotates/Shedim and host's health ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 23:08:21 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates/Shedim and host's health On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >(host's vessel level + host's Corp. Forces) x celestial's Strength, or > >(host's vessel level + celestial's Corp. Forces) x celestial's Strength? > > The latter. (Too confusing the other way.) If that makes them > lower, call it the stress of being "ridden" affecting the vessel-host > while the celestial is in residence. It will, of course, go back to > normal as soon as the celestial leaves. That works... It also makes tracking host's Body easier.Fora Kyriotate I made, I filled in the three Vessel slots with 'Host/1', 'Host/2', and 'Host/3', for hosts with 1, 2, or 3 Corp. Forces/points in Vessels, with the Body scores pre-figured for each. So I just check the sheet and it's there. |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: 04 Mar 97 02:08:44 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Human Types Canon, rev. H. CHARACTER CREATION FOR HUMAN PCs (they have a corporeal soul) 1. Humans, no matter how many Forces: a) Can use a Talisman (an Ethereal Artifact which gives a bonus to a skill use) b) Do not disturb the Symphony on the Corporeal realm (unless they consciously spend Essence, which only those with 6+ Forces are able to do) c) Can have any type of Discord appropriate for a human d) Always retain a human soul, they don't graduate to becoming a celestial -- at least, we don't know of this happening e) They get a free Corporeal Form whose level is equal to their number of Corporeal Forces; the Vessel level can be 'bought up' at creation time from the base level (p 48) f) They have no Celestial Form, and thus, can't assume it or ascend to the Celestial Realm g) They do not buy a Role. They do have to buy any Skills they want. They do have to buy any Status above level 1 at 2pts/level. h) 1 Essence regained at noon each day i) They may serve in a Tether or use it as a base un/knowingly j) Never become Word-bound, though, possibility of Patron Distinction from a Word-bound angel 2. Gaining the Sixth Force is rare, it represents: a) Experience and involvement with the War; possibly a traumatic event that generates additional notes in their personal Theme of the Symphony (IOW, character points) 1) consciously -- they discover the existence of celestials, or, the celestials reveal themselves to the human 2) uncounsciously -- they pursue a clear Good or selfish Evil without awareness of the realities of The War b) Aspiration to growth, to some higher way of being, to transcend oneself, to exceed physical, mental or existential limitations, to fight for some greater purpose -- even if these goals are perverted and twisted, e.g., the desire for power, immortality, to be loved at any cost, an obsessive and fanatical goal c) An innate talent or gift, possibly from having a celestial parent or ancestor -- natural potential 3. How the Sixth Force is acquired a) Naturally -- Experience, desire, and natural potential come together (traumatically or gradually) such that the human acquires a sixth Force 1) =Mechanic= After successful role playing, the player uses his character points to buy the Force for his PC, with GM's approval (p 202), or, the PC starts out with 6 Forces (such as a Soldier) with this explanation of what led up to gaining the 6th Force. b) Celestially -- The PC has Potential for an extra force and a *Word-bound celestial* adds it to the PC 1) =Mechanic= The GM gives the Force to the PC as a reward, or, this is a game world rationale for why the player may buy (or start out with) an extra Force for his PC (p. 202) 2) Can only be done by a Word-bound celestial onto a human with Potential (this is why it is rare) 4. What can be done when you get the 6th Force a) Consciously decide how to spend Essence, and how much at one time b) Learn and use Songs, Rites, and Attunements. Which ones you can learn depends on who you are; how your Forces are configured; and from whom you learn them; ordinarily they can only be learned from Superiors. 5. Perceiving the 6+ Force Humans a) Can't tell by sight or simple Perception how many Forces a human with 6+ Forces may have or what Side they serve. They look and feel like Mundanes. b) Humans with 6+ Forces don't disturb the Symphony unless they spend Essence c) Although... witnessing these humans use powers that have miraculous effects are clues that they might be something more than a mundane human. 6. (Possible) types of Humans with 6+ Forces a) Soldiers of God and Soldiers of Hell (part of IN NOMINE canon) b) Sorcerers, Worshippers/Idolaters, Nephillim/The Cursed, Mages (planned for future supplements -- please don't ask about their mechanics until it is published; we wouldn't tell even if we knew) c) Blessed, Damned, Pawn in the Game, Touched, Mystics, Mages, Psychics, Geniuses, Dreamers, Singers, Adepts, Neutrals (only possible ideas at this point) 7. Mundane Humans a) 5 Forces, at least one Corporeal b) No Songs, no conscious use of Essence (they blow it all at once unconsciously for something they really, really want) 8. Soldiers: They've taken a side in The War a) They *knowingly* *serve* a *celestial* (although, their understanding and amount of free-will may be compromised in some way). If there is no celestial supervision, they are not a Soldier, they are some other type of human with more than five Forces. 1) compelled or tricked (psychologically, emotionally, psychotically, blackmailed, etc...) -- compelled or tricked soldiers can sometimes be untrustworthy 2) willingly (see below for why a human may willingly pick a Side) -- most of these Soldiers are trustworthy, but they may have their own personal agenda and ethics which differ from their celestial patron b) Soldiers may be of God, or, of Hell (see descriptions below) c) They must have at least 2 Corporeal Forces and one each of Celestial and Ethereal d) Can only learn Corporeal Songs e) Can use Relics (i.e., Celestial Artifacts) that have Corporeal Songs only. f) Can use Reliquaries g) Can have the Servitor Attunements of the Word-bound celestial under whom they serve; may later earn other Attunements h) Can use Rituals -- must be taught by a Word-bound celestial i) Can be given Distinctions by any Word-bound celestial (for a good reason) j) Can not summon Superior or any celestial (after all, one celestial can not invoke or summon another celestial) 1) However, there may be a Song which would allow that, please wait for future supplements. In the meantime, get a pager. k) Can detect disturbances in the Symphony in the same way a celestial can l) Not necessarily fighters m) Can be recruited from among the few humans who do naturally obtain a 6th Force; or can be made into a Soldier by a Word-bound celestial if the human has Potential (both rare) n) Almost never reports to Superiors or Word-bound celestial -- mostly supervised by Servitors regularly -- lots of interaction between a Soldier and his celestial supervisor (for role playing reasons) o) May purchase Servants as a Resource -- As a game world rationale, a Soldier may only command other characters if that is the will of his celestial supervisor, or, if he has role played gaining their trust, or, has a place within an organization's hierarchy p) Due to the small numbers of Soldiers, it is rare for them to organize on a large scale. A small group of Soldiers may run an organization of several hundred Mundanes as an upper limit. Most work in smaller groups or individually. q) How they are treated by the celestial they serve varies greatly on the Section of the celestial and the celestial's own personality r) How can Soldiers be important? 1) They don't disturb the Symphony -- that's very important for both Sides (disturbing the Symphony attracts your enemies and angers your Superior) 2) Unlike celestials, they don't get extra vessels on Earth -- they have the added drama of death being very decisive -- this gives human characters a different set of moral choices to make 3) They are generally more free to do as they please; they do not gain Dissonance or Discord for disobedience to themselves, their supervisor, or their Superior's Word. They can do things that their celestial supervisors simply won't (or can't) do. 9. Soldiers of God a) Why they willingly chose the Side of God 1) Messianic Complex -- serving Good out of a psychological need 2) Martyr -- Is so sure of a higher way and eternal life, that they will willingly die for their cause if they have to 3) Fear of damnation 4) Love of God 5) Sense of Justice and Duty b) Any Soldier of God also may purchase Laurence's two Servitor Attunements (The Blade Blessing of Laurence, and Hunt) (p. 32) 1) Laurence allows this no matter the religious affiliation of the Soldier since he is the Leader of the God's Earthly Army 2) Naturally, if Laurence appears and gives a command... 10. Bodhisattvas & Saints a) Human souls who hang out in Heaven rather than ascend to Paradise are Bodhisattvas. b) If they are deemed worthy, they are given a vessel by a Word-bound Superior to continue their fight in the War on earth 1) The Superior 'buys' the vessel out of his own character points for the Saint. Superiors pay for the vessel as if they were buying it for themselves to occupy. Kyriotate Superiors 'pay' an ally of another Choir to create the vessel for their Sainted Servitors. 2) The Superior chooses any Role or Status the vessel may have. Faithful Saints are given important and powerful vessels; Saints who have made too many mistakes or engaged in questionable activities are given very humble vessels. a: Superiors are not dumb, they won't give a Saint who has Intelligence/1 the Role of Lawyer. But anyone can be a Sanitation Engineer/1. b: The level of the vessel is equal to the Saint's Corporeal Forces. The player can spend character points at the time of the vessel's creation to increase its level or buy or increase skills (but he can't alter the Status or Role that his Superior chooses). 3) This keeps a Saint character in line with who they are. They don't generate Dissonance, but they can have their Superior refuse to give them a new vessel if they don't behave correctly. c) When Saints die 1) Each re-experience of death causes Trauma for the Saint, which works a little differently than Trauma for celestials. 2) Upon 'death', roll (with no modifiers at all) v. (Level of Will + Level of Celestial Forces - Number of times the Saint has died (including the first mortal body death)) 3) If successful, then the Saint needs to recover Check Digit days before being sent back to earth 4) If the roll fails, the Saint is filled with the desire to give up this veil of tears and ascend to the higher planes of Heaven... Paradise 11. Soldiers of Hell a) When a Soldier of Hell gains an 8th Force, he gains the unwanted attention of demon masters and Superiors who regard him as a threat. Best not to let on that you're growing in power. b) Often, a demon will recruit a Soldier with the old 'sell your soul' trick. It keeps the Soldier feeling hopeless. How the deal is done plays on the target's fears, hatreds, and superstitions. 12. Undead a) Making an Undead is an attempt to add another Force to create an immortal human b) The human's soul is now attached to the Corporeal body in such a way that when the body is destroyed, so is the soul c) This forcing of the restructuring of the human can backfire, and the target of this attempt can actually loose Forces and receive Discords, thus creating Vampires and Zombis d) A Saminga Attument can create other types of Zombis from the freshly dead (Mmmmmm.) (p 178) Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: 04 Mar 97 02:08:16 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> The Marches Canon(?) Here's a basic summary of what is, I believe, canon for The Marches. A few details were filled in by me for consistency. Comments are welcome. Do people working on THE MARCHES need to know Other Stuff? If you have an idea which adds a new piece of the universe, and you're wondering if it could fit (or looking for a rationale to make it fit), please shoot it to me via email before you commit a lot of words and time to it. I'll be happy to get right back to you all on it. Don't forget to weasel a bit on the status of the old gods. Rather than say "Odin was as powerful as Yahweh," it is better to say, "Odin says he was once as powerful as Yahweh," or, "It is rumored that Odin was once as powerful as Yahweh." ============= O. REALMS: The Ethereal -- The Marches 1. The Marches are divided between Beleth and Blandine 2. The Far Marches exist beyond the area of the Marches which they control a) adventure seed: celestials battle for control of the Far Marches 3. Residents: a) Dead humans whose souls enter the Marches to keep dreaming b) Dreaming humans create a dreamscape into which celestials, with the right abilities, can enter c) Creatures of myth and legend -- in protection on Beleth's side or retreated to the Far Marches 1) some of the gods are 'supported' by worshippers ('idolaters' to the angels) 2) human worshippers provide Essence 3) it takes a sizable number of Essence to support a stable dreamscape in the Far Marches, a dreamscape large enough to provide a home for many Ethereal Spirits d) Memunim -- Choir of Hope (Blandine's side) e) Pachadim -- Band of Fear (Beleth's side) 4. Dreams a) dreamscapes possibly exist while the person is awake or dead, but perhaps only Beleth and Blandine would have access to that b) while in Blandine's realm, a failed skill roll in a dream with a Check Digit of 6 will move one into Beleth's realm, along with any visitors in his dreamscape c) while in Beleth's realm, a succesful skill roll in a dream with a Check Digit of 6 will move one into Blandine's realm, along with any visitors in his dreamscape d) celestials require a Will roll to sleep (a failed roll requires a half hour wait to try again) or a Will roll to awaken 1) they don't have their own dreamscape; they can see the dreamscapes of humans around, and observe their contents 2) only special Songs and Attunements and Resonances will allow one to enter another's dreamscape 5. Going in and out a) when anyone in Corporeal realm enters the Marches through the mind of a human dreamer, their Corporeal vessel remains in the Corporeal realm asleep b) when anyone enters the Marches through a physical means, such as an Ethereal Tether, their Corporeal form vanishes from the Corporeal world; they can only come back to earth through another physical route c) the Towers are Celestial Tethers. In them, Celestial Form is the rule. Outside them, rules of Ethereal manifestation take place. The 'ethereal form' is mostly anything, usually a dream-like version of their last physical form, or it is like their celestial form. 6. Ethereal Existence a) It's all in the mind. Ethereal existence is fluid and malleable. One can have control over one's dreamscape, although many dreamers don't realize that. b) Visitors to a dreamscape need some sort of mechanic in order to participate in a dreamscape. Those who are aware of the nature of their dreamscape (Ethereal Spirits, lucid dreamers, e.g.,) may invite others into their dreamscape. c) In order to interfere or actually takeover a dreamscape, there needs to be some sort of mechanic. For a celestial in a Mundane's dreamscape, it's not too hard. Taking over the dreamscape of a god with many worshippers is nigh impossible (for an individual, at least) ------------- Other areas to explore: 1) Pagan priests. Treat as Ethereal Soldiers (humans with 6+ Forces -- see the Humans and Soldiers Canon sheet) who only know Ethereal Songs (except that they know all three types of the Songs of Dreamin). They can use Relics that have Ethereal or Dreaming Songs only. 2) Worshippers. Treat as Mundane humans, some of whom have the Potential to become priests. Their rituals generate two points of Essence: one for them, one for their god. At times, they may be asked by their priest to perform a ritual that transfers all their Essence to the god. (Though they don't know that that's what's happening.) The god occaisionally (some do it randomly, some depending on the situation) grant boons to certain worshippers. This lottery system of being shown favor is one of the hooks that keep worshippers coming back for more, even they may be drained of Essence now and them. Other hooks: agreement with the philosophy of the god; psychological needs; rebellion against the Judeo - Christian - Islamic status quo, etc.... 3) Ethereal spirits summoned by sorcerers from their point of view. 4) Ethereal spirits manifesting on the Corporeal world in a vessel. 5) The status quo of the mythic Ethereal spirits in the Far Marches and in Beleth's realm. 6) Other types of Ethereal Spirits (I like the idea of Ethereal Spirits who've 'gone native' in the Far Marches -- they are now pure thought and, like a dream, can become almost anything in a thought.) Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 23:56:29 -0800 From: "Joe Fulgham" Subject: IN> Excel 97/5.0 Character Creation sheets Version 1.0 of my Excel 97 In Nomine Character Creation Sheet is available for download at http://www.holycow.com/in-nomine/ I've also put up an Excel 5.0 version for those who don't have 97 yet. This is currently not a "pretty to print out" character sheet, but a "pretty to use" Character creation help sheet. Calculates Body/Mind/Soul hits, "Death at", Role cost, adds all costs together, stuff. Very helpful so far. The second sheet on the workbook will *become* a character sheet that takes your creation info and formats everything beautifully for printout... whenever I find the time. Until then, this should make character creation quite a bit easier. You're welcome :) - --------------------------------------------------------- Joe Fulgham |"Expecting the world to treat you puck@holycow.com | fairly because you are a good www.holycow.com | person is a little like expecting PGP Key available | the bull not to attack you because Puck Undernet #mtg | you are a vegetarian. -Dennis Wholey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 00:07:39 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Auction Update and the Combat System On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Botanically Challenged wrote: > I'm sorry. Since simple animals like cats and dogs even have two > forces I took level 1 to mean one corporeal force not total forces for the > animal. If it is only one total force per animal then forty-five is > reasonable, but still impressive. Three words: Plague of locusts. According to the animals rules on p. 191, insect swarms count as 1 Force per 30 insects. So a Kyriotte of Jordi with 5 Corp. Forces, being able o handle 45 Forces of animals, can control a plague of 1350 locusts. That alone can mangle a field of crops before long. Get a few of them working together, and you can have a plague of Biblical proportions. And that's no pun, but a sincere comparison. Aside from locusts, Jordi's Kyriotates can of course pull of swarms of roaches or rats if they ever deigned to enter a city, and I'm sure everyone has figured out already that they can control an entire wolf pack. |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 18:49:53 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Auction Update and the Combat System Botanically Challenged wrote: > > >Have you ever tried to kill (or even inconvenience) a Celestial with > >5 Corporeal forces? It takes FOREVER. One of my players is a > >Kyriotate with five Corporeal and 11 strength. Any random Vessel/1 > >he inhabits has 66 Body! And, as a servant of Jordi, he can > >inhabit a LOT of animal Vessels/1! (forty-five, in case you > >are wondering) And just try damaging someone with a 9 agility > >who is able to dodge. Geesh! > Actually, I just got e-mail from Derek Pearcy taht the Body Hits of a possessed host stay the same after possession, even though the Strength and Agility alter. Makes those random Vessel/1s a _whole_ lot more fragile... That, I think, is a _very_ good ruling. Kyriotates and Shedim have a big-arse power, and I'm glad they also have drawbacks. - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia The crumbled cities stand as known Of the sights you have been shown Of the hurt you call your own Love is suicide SMASHING PUMPKINS, "Bodies" ------------------------------ Date: 04 Mar 97 04:20:55 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Talisman Costs >Gregory Littman: >Am I reading the rules correctly in thinking that for 2 resource points I >could either buy 2 skill levels or a talisman that would raise one of my >skills by 1? If so, this doesn't seem balanced. With Talismans, one point per level is for the skill, the other point per level is for the attunement to a corporeal object. The Porsche with Driving/4 is your Porsche/4 to which you are attuned. It also has the driving skill at level 4 for you and your friends to use. Being able to share these skills with others become very important when you start attracting Servitors and Soldiers to yourself. They're going to want something from you as a sign of devotion -- and what says 'love' more than a gift of magnum holy pistol? Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: 04 Mar 97 04:21:05 EST From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> New NetRep/John Karakash Everyone, Please welcome John Karakash as the IN NOMINE NetRep and FAQ keeper (first draft done, currently under review). John will field all the 'easy' questions and organize all the rulings about the minutiae of gaming. My public and many thanks to John for volunteering for this position. This will surely give me more time to help coordinate our authors. Peace, Moriah GURPS Line Editor List Owner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:14:34 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Diabolic Plan. Dear List hi guys and gals. I was watching the news last night and some guy got on and said we are about a month's bad weather away from a total failure of the world's major coffee crops with only a few months stockpiled. Imagine a world without coffee for 2 or 3 months. Thanking you for you indulgence. Yours PeterF. email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Any Institution big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:39:05 +0000 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Talisman Costs John Karakash scribed the following:- > You are reading that exactly correct. The balance is that > the item in question can give a boost to an already high skill and > don't forget that it still is an _item_. So, does this mean that if you have Small weapon/4 and are using a Kukri/5 you add a total of 9 to your Agility when figuring out your to hit roll (before any modifiers take effect)? So, if you had the case above and had 8 Agility, you would need to roll 17 or less on two dice to hit your opponent, giving a +5 to your check digit..? Hmmm... I can see a combat character to two apearing in my next IN campaign, perchance. > A high skill in > small weapon isn't much use if you don't have a small weapon > handy! ;) This is, indeedy, quite true; and don't forget about the local law enforcement officers of wherever the campaign is set might get a bit uppity about people having to-the-death knife fights in the streets. This means that whoever won the first round would get dragged away by the officers first on the scene... :-) Still, I suppose any Celestial would have little trouble in getting him/her/itself out from whichever slammer was the present dwelling place they came round in. Especially Kariotates. > A talisman can also be lent out or given as a reward by > one's superior. But only if the Superior was *really* impressed by the character's conduct... > Personally, I think they are a wee bit overpriced myself, Ever sp slightly, but you are also atuned to the artifact as well though, which can be handy if, in the adventure I'm currently running, *someone* walks off with it. > but just in my own campaign I intend on letting talismans and > artifacts have other minor beneficial effects depending on their > level. > Realy? What sort of "other minor beneficial effects" are we talking about here? On a semi-noise realted matter, my apologies to in the IN list for my rather, erm, bizarre postings at the end of last week (Thursday or Friday if I recall). This was due not, as I initially thought, to a brainstorm on my part, but to my email programme gazumping me, doing strange electronic hoojimaflippy things of the weirdest order, and otherwise generally ****ing me over on that particular day. Hmmm, must be the Network at work on me. Fnord. (Oh, *damn*; wrong list... :-) Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:57:55 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Talisman Trackers David Evans wrote >Ever sp slightly, but you are also atuned to the artifact as well though, >which can be handy if, in the adventure I'm currently running, *someone* >walks off with it. > Dear David (and List) has anyone else thought of making a few small artifacts (like pins or such) and sticking them on someone that you want to be able to track down? Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours PeterF. email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 11:56:03 +0000 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed #3 Fish wrote:- > > On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, David.Evans wrote: > > [Exactly what Joe Cardella wrote.] > > David, this is the second time today you've replied to someone, > included their entire message, and failed to add anything. What gives? > This is pretty bizarre behaviour... > All I can say is "Whooooopppss!!!", and alopogise profusely; my email programme is playing hell with me of late. Hmmm... possessed perhaps? :-) Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 22:33:23 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: Re: IN> Auction Update and the Combat System On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > You mostly read the statement right but you made a wrong assumption. > Kyriotates of Jordi can inhabit animal hosts whose total forces are > equal to his total number of Forces TIMES the Kyriotates Corporeal > Forces. Note that I said 'Vessel/1' up there which indicates > that these are level one vessels I was referring to. Nine Forces > times 5 Corporeal Forces is 45, hence 45 level 1 animal vessels. Actually, now I'm going to take issue with this... This is all fine and dandy, assuming you can find 45 animals which happen only to have one Corporeal Force, and no others. At least all of the animal examples given in the core book have two or greater Forces... So sure, if they only have one Corp Force, they only count as a Vessel/1, but that doesn't mean you can possess 45 of them... -- fish. | Fish Flowers ><> | | (Malakite of Power Gaming.) (I don't exist.) (Fnord.) | | awflower@midway.uchicago.edu eidolon@io.com | | http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:49:52 -0600 (CST) From: fish Subject: Re: IN> New NetRep/John Karakash On 4 Mar 1997, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games wrote: > Peace, > > Moriah > GURPS Line Editor Funny, I thought Sean did that... -- fish. | Fish Flowers ><> | | (Malakite of Power Gaming.) (I don't exist.) (Fnord.) | | awflower@midway.uchicago.edu eidolon@io.com | | http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/awflower/index.html | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:41:30 -0500 (EST) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Talisman Costs Moriah asked: "They're going to want something from you as a sign of devotion -- and what says 'love' more than a gift a of magnum holy pistol?" That's easy: a spatula from Spatula City! yours, - -J ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:59:35 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: IN> (Fwd) Number of vessels for Kyriotates of Jordi > You mostly read the statement right but you made a wrong assumption. > Kyriotates of Jordi can inhabit animal hosts whose total forces are > equal to his total number of Forces TIMES the Kyriotates Corporeal > Forces. Note that I said 'Vessel/1' up there which indicates > that these are level one vessels I was referring to. Nine Forces > times 5 Corporeal Forces is 45, hence 45 level 1 animal vessels. Whoops! I meant to use 'forces' not 'vessel'. But it's still a lot, either way (a lot more than 4.5 anyways!). > Since a cat, given as the smallest example in the book, has 2 Forces. I > couldn't even say a bird is 1 Force -- birds are fairly smart. I'd be > inclined to say your Kyriotate could possess 22 small animals, or perhaps > 45 insect swarms. > > But remember, the drawback to this is that if *any* of his 22 cats get > killed, or he otherwise leaves them in worse shape than he originally found > them, then he gets dissonance! If you're not careful, you're on a one-way > ride to Hell. So lots of tiny vessels are actually a Bad Idea. He found that out to his disadvantage last session. He was in a pigeon and a very strong Grigori snuck up on his invisibly. The Kyriotate rolled 666 to dodge so I ruled that the pigeon had just become a smear on the ground. Annoyed the player, but what does he expect with rolls like that? ;) On the 'removing levels for vessels born' report, all I can say is YES! I suggested this because then Body hits tend to escalate dramatically. In my campaign, except for extraordinary individuals, all normally born vessels have been Vessel/1. I even hand out Vessel/0 to particularly fragile specimens. As corporeal forces go up for humans (and other purely earthly creatures), the Body hits tend to go up equal to twice the *square*. (Since Vessel=Corp and Strength usually goes up with Corp and is multiplied). - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:21:18 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Talisman Costs > > > but just in my own campaign I intend on letting talismans and > > artifacts have other minor beneficial effects depending on their > > level. > > > > Realy? What sort of "other minor beneficial effects" are we talking > about here? (Keep in mind that these are house rules ONLY.) Oh, little things. Low level artifacts are always sharp, never need cleaning, run smoothly, etc. Higher level ones might never require fuel, have interesting additions (a gun that can be dismantled into innocuous components, hidden compartments, a REALLY nice stereo system). Level 6 artifacts might have some intelligence, have additional minor abilities (Level/6 fighting claws might give a plus one for climbing as well), be disguised as something completely different. Most of these advantages, except for the Level/6 ones, are not things you can really buy with points but ARE somewhat useful. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 97 12:36 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Talisman Costs [Moriah:] >>Gregory Littman: >>Am I reading the rules correctly in thinking that for 2 resource points I >>could either buy 2 skill levels or a talisman that would raise one of my >>skills by 1? If so, this doesn't seem balanced. > > With Talismans, one point per level is for the skill, the other point per >level is for the attunement to a corporeal object. Yes, but you don't *need* to be attuned to a skill you possess in order to keep people from running off with it. Hence this "benefit" is a bit dubious, point cost-wise.... > The Porsche with Driving/4 is your Porsche/4 to which you are attuned. It >also has the driving skill at level 4 for you and your friends to use. Being >able to share these skills with others become very important when you start >attracting Servitors and Soldiers to yourself. They're going to want >something from you as a sign of devotion -- and what says 'love' more than a >gift of magnum holy pistol? This makes a *little* bit more sense, at least for Talismans. But what about Relics? Unless the relic is for a Corporeal Song, you can't give it to humans to use. And Relics cost *3* points per level.... In any case, there's already a game mechanic (and point cost) associated with loyalty of the Servitor to the celestial -- at least, that's what the level seems to do. In some sense, this sort of little gift should probably been assumed as a side effect of buying higher levels of loyalty from the Servitor. The fact that the Talisman can be taken away at all pretty much balances out the fact that you can loan them out/give them away. And most celestials are going to pick up Servitors/Soldiers based on what abilities they need from them, so there won't be too much need to augment with the gadgets. The biggest argument I can see for 2 points/level for Talismans and 3/level for Relics is that they can take an already-high skill level (i.e., a maxed-out 6) and raise it to extreme heights. Thus, I don't expect to see many starting characters buying Artifacts of any sort, except maybe Corporeal ones, which would be simply for the attunement value. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 12:27:43 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates/Shedim and host's health On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Brian Emord wrote: > But then what happens to a host that gains hits while the celestial is > 'riding' and then takes damage that would bring him below his 'normal' > hits and the celestial leaves... does it instantly kill the vessel?? is > it proportionate damage??? I know many people have already said about the same thing, but I'll post my IC explanation of it: A Rider (Kyriotate or Shedite) possessing a host with a lower Body: The vessel has the higher Body score because the Rider's Corp. Forces are helping hold the thing together. If the host takes damage that would kill him normally, but not while possessed, then the Rider's Corp. Forces are ALL that are holding him together anymore. Take those away, and the body collapses under it's own weight, practically. If the host has more Body normally than with the Rider: The Rider's connection to the corporeal plane is more tenuous that the host's, so it doesn't take as much damage to break that connection. The host will awaken a short time therafter, somewhat worse for the wear, but alive; his own connection is more solid that the Rider's. |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #53 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.