From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Mar 8 15:06:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11580; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 15:06:17 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17462 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 15:09:05 -0600 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 15:09:05 -0600 Message-Id: <199703082109.PAA17462@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #60 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, March 8 1997 Volume 01 : Number 060 In this digest: Re: IN> Munchkin Math! Re: RE: IN> Tether locations Re: IN> Song Questions Re: IN> Song Questions Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? Re: IN> Munchkin Math! IN> FW: [Fwd: God v. govenrment] IN> NOMINE: Help! IN> Question? Un/Holy Water and its affects IN> re: which is real religion? Re: IN> A Question of Dominic IN> Azrael, Uriel and others IN> Fraying book covers. Re: IN> Song Questions IN> Intervention Divine IN> IN vs. INS/MV Re: IN> Munchkin Math! Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? Re: IN> Coolness Re: IN> Possible Demon Princes? Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers IN> Kyriotates of Jordi and Biblical plagues IN> re: which is real religion? Re: IN> re: which is real religion? Re: IN> Azrael, Uriel and others Re: IN> Munchkin Math! Re: IN> IN vs. INS/MV Re: IN> Azrael, Uriel and others IN> Some random new artifacts Re: IN> re: which is real religion? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 13:57:59 -0700 From: Jeff Schultz Subject: Re: IN> Munchkin Math! At 12:23 PM 3/7/97 -0600, Drew Johnson wrote: > >P.S. Has anyone else as of yet taken a look at Peretti's This Present Darkness >and Piercing the Darkness (mentioned in the IN bibliography)? I would love to >chat at some time about these two books in relation to the In Nomine world. > Wow, it's been _years_ since I've read these. My foggy mind seems to recall that they were a very good read. Really cool descriptions of heavenly combat. The humans in the book could even give Essence to Angels through prayer (possibly a Rite of the Angel of Faith?). >__________________________[O][O][O]____________________________________________ > Drew Cosby Johnson [O][O][B] http://public.carleton.edu/~DJOHNSON/ > djohnson@carleton.edu [O][C][O] Ld. Robert Bartholomew > Mmm...Nukes... [M][O][O] Gabba-gabba-hey. >__________Student Computing Intern____[O][O][O]___Carleton College_____________ > Jeff Schultz e-mail: jschultz@vtius.com web: http://www.vtius.com/~jschultz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 97 15:57 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: RE: IN> Tether locations [nickj:] >I agree tethers should be about one per side for every 1 million people = >or so. Anything less and you'ld have open warfare all the time (which = >is what happens when you put opposing points of supply right next to = >each other.) 1 per million per side gives the US about 20 per Archangel/Prince, or thereabouts. This seems kind of low, to cover such a large area. Maybe not, though. I still think you're going to see one of everybody in the largest 5-10 US cities, just on general principles. (Jordi, of course, being an exception to that....) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 15:04:01 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Emord Subject: Re: IN> Song Questions John Karakash. Wrote > Actually, the Song of Sleep sounds pretty neat! Lessee.... > -- Of all the songs presented here so far... I liked this one the best, it has a nice balance and also fits well with the other songs... Not to say that previous songs were bad but this is by far more my playing style... Good Night Sweet Prince... hehehe <-- Not evil just very devious Brian Emord Calabim of Belial Yeah, fire, Fire, FIRE... that would be kewl... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:27:01 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Song Questions On Mar 7, 3:04pm, Brian Emord wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Song Questions > John Karakash. Wrote > > Actually, the Song of Sleep sounds pretty neat! Lessee.... > > > -- > > Of all the songs presented here so far... I liked this one the best, it > has a nice balance and also fits well with the other songs... Not to say > that previous songs were bad but this is by far more my playing style... > > Good Night Sweet Prince... hehehe <-- Not evil just very devious In retrospect, didn't we see this in 'The Prophecy'? Well. Now we _have_ to print it somewhere. ;) -john 'Shhh' karakash- - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 97 16:47 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? [johnk:] >> Hm. So where do Grigi-Kiddies show up when they die? > Depending on how you look at things, there are >two different choices. > 1) God made the Grigori to be so close to human >that all their children with humans were human > 2) Grigori, fallen or no, are angels still. They >have the same chances of making an angel as any other angel. Actually, the book makes it clear that children of Grigori are, at least some of the time, automatically celestials. (I believe one place this is stated is in the section on corporeal death.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:07:07 -0500 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Munchkin Math! On Mar 7, 4:07pm, Joel Cardella wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Munchkin Math! > On 7 Mar 97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > Demonspawn! Someone has been reading my > > mind about the > might be reading this> I'm going to use in my first > > adventure. Can't even trust my own mind these days... > > grumble, grumble... > > > > -john 'Demon Prince of Rules Lawyers and his faithful > > servant the Demon of Munchkins' karakash- > > > Well, John, I AM one of your players and I AM a Servitor of Destiny, > so doesn't it stand to reason that I'd know? > > "Hey, you, get out of my mind!" Heh. Look at the recent posts. Fate just came knocking. ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 97 16:48:00 PST From: johnk@ascc01.ascc.lucent.com Subject: IN> FW: [Fwd: God v. govenrment] ---------- ---------- *** THERE WILL BE NO MORE MAILINGS FROM HUMOR NET (SOON TO CHANGE) UNTIL SUNDAY OCT 20th or shortly there after. It's now Fall Break here at college and I'm going home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******* In the beginning God Created heaven and the earth. Quickly he was faced with a class action suit for failure to file an environmental impact statement. He was granted a temporary permit for the project, but was stymied with the Cease and Desist order for the earthly part. Appearing at the hearing, God was asked why he began his earthly project in the first place. He replied that he just liked to be creative. Then God said, "Let there be light." Officials immediately demanded to know how the light would be made. Would there be strip mining? What about thermal pollution? God explained that the light would come from a huge ball of fire. God was granted provisional permission to make light, assuming that no smoke would result from the ball of fire, that he would obtain a building permit, and (to conserve energy) would have the light out half the time. God agreed and said he would call the light "Day" and the darkness "Night." Officials replied that they were not interested in semantics. God said, "Let the earth bring forth green herb and such as manyseed." The EPA agreed so long as native seed was used. Then God said, "Let waters bring forth creeping creatures having life; and the fowl that may fly over the earth." Officials pointed out this would require approval from the Department of Game coordinated with the Heavenly Wildlife Federation and the Audubongelic Society. Everything was OK until God said he wanted to complete the project in six days. Officials informed him it would take at least 200 days to review the application and the environmental impact statement. After that there would be a public hearing. Then there would be 10-12 months before... At this point God created Hell. /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ /~\ /~\ Compliments of: "QUESTIONABLE CONTENT" /~\ /~\ /~~~\ /~~~\ `````````````````````````````````` /~~~\ /~~~\ __/~~~~~\_/~~~~~\____Yet Another HUMOR NET Mailing!____/~~~~~\_/~~~~~\__ | ~~~~~~~ A Time Wasting Service of Rustin Kreider ~~~~~~~ | \ HUMOR NET is a daily humor service. Subscription info can be found at / \ http://157.62.12.149/users/rkreider/humornet.htm or E-Mail / \ rustin@prolog.net Comments and submissions of HUMOR are welcome. / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | Humor Net is a non-profit service and does not own rights to | | this material. Original author is credited if known to us. | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:11:40 +0000 From: dronf@io.com Subject: IN> NOMINE: Help! Ummm.... Before I post I have a boner for you...uhhhh.... I can't find my rewrite of Se'hetshebal! And it isn't posted on the web yet! Ooigh! Can you PLEASE send me a copy, so I can post (I need to react to this situation, I think...rather quickly?) - - Joel "Bonehead" Cardella - --------------------------------- Joel Cardella "Chinese food IS my life" http://www.io.com/~dronf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:46:56 -0500 From: Erik Menard Subject: IN> Question? Un/Holy Water and its affects Hi Guys: I don't think this has been discussed, but if it has I guess I missed it, but I would really like to know what you guys think. In my first game the question of Un/Holy water/oil and it practical effects came up. How do you people think this Issue should be handled? Does Un/Holy water cause damage to Celestial of the opposite Camp, and if so how much. Or rather, does it just have a repellant effect like Bug Spray. How should Un/Holy water be produced (Priest can do it, I think. can Angel and Demons do it to?) I want to use you suggestions to firm up some Ideas I've got on this matter. When these Ideas gel a little bit better I'll post my Theories Thanks Erik **************************************************************************** ***** Erik Menard * Rules of combat older than contact with other races. emenard@total.net * Did not mention aliens. Rules change caught up in committee. Laval,Quebec * --ex-Green Drazi Leader Canada * **************************************************************************** ***** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 23:00:00 -0600 (CST) From: Corey Subject: IN> re: which is real religion? okay, i dont want to start any sort of flame wars, and im not trying to espouse anyone particualr doctrine, but how is the Islam/Christianity division dealt with, i mean christianity ignores mohammed, and islam says that jesus was just a prophet, who's right, or are they both wrong Swear allegiance to the flag what ever flag they offer -Mike and the Mechanics "SIlent Running" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 23:50:53 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> A Question of Dominic At 06:59 PM 2/28/97 -0600, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: > > >On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Andrew Getting wrote, about Dominic: > >> Uh-huh. So why didn't he stand up to Yves? Why did he try to kill >> the messenger? Why is he in cahoots with the third-biggest Demon in Hell, >> EVEN part time? > >Maybe Asmodeus is his ex-partner, and this is Dom's one weakness? And who >says he knew about Yves ordering Gabe about? Because, odds are, Yves or Gabriel would have mentioned it to try to get Gabby off the rack. Gabriel, because she was acting on orders, and Yves, because he apparently tried to help Gabs out. As for Asmodeus, you'd think working with a noted Archdemon would be considered Heretical... Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:54:12 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: IN> Azrael, Uriel and others On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: > > Azrael > > The Angel of Vengence > > Elohim Friend of the Divine Spark > > I'd have made him a Malakite, but that's just me. For an angel of veangance, he works. However, I checked 'A Dictionary of Angels', and Azrael is described as an angel of death, not veangance. Unfortunately, it was a reference book at a library and I was on a schedule at the time, so I didn't get the chance to read the entry in detail. I'm just speculating here, and the historical role of Azrael could be way different, but perhaps he could be a heavenly counterpoint to Saminga, even if he wasn't an archangel. Possibly a servant of Yves. His interpretation of the Word of Death could be like that of the Tarot card, that of tranformation at an essential level, often traumatic and irreversible, but always neccessary. Saminga, on the other hand, represents simply an end of existence. On the other hand, I could be completely off base. Perhaps the meaning of 'angel of death' was that he was sent down to Earth to cause it. Also, I looked up Uriel while I had the book in my hands. Uriel was not the archangel of purity as IN states. He was an archangel, but the archangel of magic. He was the angel who gave the knowledge of the Qabala to humans, among other gifts of knowledge, usually mystical. Again, I didn't have the time to read the entire entry. However, a little second or third had info, from people I know who know Catholics who know this stuff, Uriel was also associated with creatures of myth. If this is correct, then when the archangel of purity (I looked him up too, but can't remember the name) started purging the earth of magical being, Uriel would've been /very/ unthrilled. There's a good chance someone in my group will write up Uriel as the archangel of magic, because there's at least two out of the four in our first IN game (myself included) who want to play servitors of him. |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:00:56 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: IN> Fraying book covers. On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > the plastic covering on our In Nomy book is starting to fray a little > at the edges. I noticed this too. Three days after I got it, and the top layer of plastic starts to peel. I immediately covered in with clear contact paper (it had been getting scuffed /way/ too easily, too.) Physically, I was kinda disappointed. I mean, all the GURPS books I have came with pretty sturdy cardstock covers, and the printing was done with a matte finish, as opposed to the high-gloss plastic on IN. Even without contact paper, they've managed pretty well. I can't help but wonder why this book would be so much more fragile. The cover paintings have some nice detail on them, and they could've done the IN cover design just as well, so that can't be it. Any SJG staffers got a comment? |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:23:01 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Song Questions On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > There is no second edition currently planned. Nor, > at this time, does there seem to be a need. Um, exsqueeze me? Now, first off, let me say that I really dig the game. Keep this in mind while reading the critical statements to come. It just doesn't seem that well put together. Now I understand that it is a first printing; however, I remember reading on the IN web page that they were taking this long so that they could make sure they got it right. Well, honestly, I could've waited a coupla more months. I know writing an RPG is a major undertaking. I currently have a homebrew game of my own in the works, and already I've put alot of work into it, and it's barely playable, not to mention salable. They seemed to have gotten about 95% of the system down pat, but there's even things in my old playtest version that aren't in it, like effects of poisons. Go to www.discountgames.com/reviews/in_nomine.html to find a review on IN. The critic makes some valid points, although he didn't seem to like it that much himself, so it may sound more bitter that I feel about it. I hope I'm not sounding too critical or apologetic; being a writer, I can understand the fragility of a writer's ego. :) In any event, as much as like the game, I do think in needs a second edition somewhere down the line. However, the game is out, so as far as I'm concerned, the guys can take as much time as they need to fix it up. |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:29:21 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: IN> Intervention Divine A while back, there was a review in Pyramid of 'Intervention Divine', a French trading card game based in INS/MV. Has anyone thought of importing it to the US, now that IN is here? Even an English language edition of the unaltered game would be interesting. I have no idea how playable or fun it is (having never played it :), but I am curious about it. Has anyone here actually seen/played it by any chance? |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:38:05 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: IN> IN vs. INS/MV Does anyone know how different is IN from INS/MV? I would imagine tha basic mechanics are the same, but aside from that, how much was changed? I was wondering for a long time why IN was taking so long; I had thought all they were doing was translating it and making it more palatable for an American audience. Also, the older playtest I have is signifigantly different. Combat and damage worked differently (The primary attributes were actually reduced by damage), Vessels and Artifacts were bought differently, characters had a permanent Essence score which was spent on Resources instead of CP's, and Resonance and Dissonance systems just weren't there. I still keep my copy around for reference, tho'; it has a few nifty bits, like more detailed description of Heaven and Hell, poison rules, and some more Songs and skills. |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 03:10:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: Re: IN> Munchkin Math! <> It's interesting to see just what can be achieved within the rules, even if it does tend toward munchkinism sometimes. One thing that immediately struck me, though, was that the Malakite described in the snipped part above had no way to injure anyone ouside the reach of his arms, and I've got a vision of a Calabite with an M-16 backpedaling as he turns the Malakite into something akin to Swiss cheese. "This is gonna hurt you a lot more than it will me!! Yowza!!! Eat flaming death, choirboy!!" Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 03:10:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael C. Nutt" Subject: Re: IN> Why Johnny can't breed... or can he? About the Lilim, as "Daughters of Lilith"... I took the "Daughters" remark as a figure of speech, and that the Lilim were celestials just like any other, 'cept that they were created by Lilith to her own "secret recipe", so to speak. I don't see why they should have any different rules for cross-breeding with humans/celestials as any *other* celestial would. Another point... if we do postulate a "pregnancy" resulting from a human/celestial cross, why would we assume that the pregnancy would follow the human standard nine-month gestation? If the offspring were a celestial, it wouldn't seem that time for cell division would be needed, after all. Now, a human mother might have a "normal" pregnancy if she were carrying the spawn of a celestial, but then again, she might *not*. Weird ideas, for sure... Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 97 02:33:53 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Coolness At 08:56 PM 3/1/97 EST, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >>If that were the case, Dominic's little helpers wouldn't hush up when >>asked >>about this. Also, aren't Renegades prime targets for Redemption, like >>Outcasts >>are for Falling? > >You would trust someone even the Other side could not abide? Remember, >Dissonence is lack of comfort with one's nature. First from a Heavenly >perspective, then from a self perspective. Of course not. Mistrust doesn't negate an attempt to convert, it simply suggests that caution is necessary. >As an example, a person who does not fit into normal society (no, I'm not >defining it, the masses determine the norm) must then find satisfaction >in himself. If he finds he hates himself too, then he has BIG problems. >Keep him away from clock towers and sharp objects. Hell has pretty low >standards. I certainly would not expend a lot of effort turning a >Renegade. I might milk him for information... >:-) Let's use another example: A hitman's got a lot of damaging info on the local Mafioso. He also wants to *LEAVE* said family, but, wouldn't you know it, ol' Don Fnor... er, Don Pastrami doesn't like loose ends. The FBI is known to not like the Mafia, and to actively crack down on it if possible. While the hitman and the FBI agents may not like or trust each other, they're obliged to help each other - the hitman, for protection and the FBI for information. So it would reasonably be with Renegades and Angels. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 97 02:33:55 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> Possible Demon Princes? At 02:50 AM 3/2/97 -0800, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >I did a little digging, although my resources on the matter are >depressingly limited, and came up with some names of major demons. If >anyone out there knows anything about this stuff, it would be nice if >they could provide a little info on these guys, to help develop some more >Demon Princes, or at least some powerful Word-Bound demons to make life >interesting. > >The names I came up with are Beelzebub, Lord of the Flies (business >partner to Doctor Faustus and possibly the most famous demon among >laymen); That's Mephistopheles, if we're going by Marlowe. >Mephistopholes (I think he had an opera written about him); Yep. >Choronzon, the Dweller in the Abyss (Crowley supposedly summoned him >once, and almost lost control of him); Also a recurring Sandman character ;> >Memnoch and Astaroth. > >On the topic of Demon Princes, I kinda miss the idea from the earlier >playtest version of the Metatron, the giant demon whose carcass contained >all of Hell. It seemed to fit with the medeival depictions of souls being >herded into the maw of a dragon-like beast, referred to as Leviathan by >some. And then there's the scene from 'The Frighteners', when the Tunnel >O' Light (tm) turns into the throat of a monster... Yikes. > >Well, I suppose if I'm running, I can do what I want. :) I'm thinking of doing Leviathan (of Hellraiser fame)... Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 00:46:17 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: Re: IN> Shedim and Divine Tethers On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Raven wrote: > The way I see it, a demon in celestial form, like Shedim forced out of > his host, would simply be forced from Tether, albeit violently. The > first round he spends being burned by Divine light, and is incapable of > action. Have him make a Will roll. If he succeeds, at the start of the > next round, he is forced to the nearest point just outside the Tether's > perimeter, and is stunned for (7 - check digit) rounds. If he fails, he > is thrown to a random point (check digit) yards outside the Tether's > perimeter, is stunned for (6 + check digit) rounds, and takes (check > digit) Soul hits. I just now had a thought. One of Asmodeus' Servitor Attunements is binding a celestial in place with his own Dissonance. My IN book's currently on load, but I would guess that it can work in celestial form as well. This would establish that, yes, there are ways of blocking a celestial's movements. At the very least, I would say that another celestial in celestial form could block his movement. So, imagine some demon, forced or tricked into entering a divine Tether while in a vessel, then forced /out/ of the vessel, as angels cluster around him, keeping him from leaving or even being forced out of the Tether, and getting seriously pounded on celestially. Maybe if his movements are blocked, have him make a Will roll every round, and if he fails, he takes (check digit) Soul hits. He's still stunned and can't act, like above, and keeps taking Soul hits as normal from the angels pounding on him. If he escapes, I'd call him stunned an extra round after he gets out for each round he was inside. Probably only a Shedim could be forced from his vessel by exorcism (anyone else would rather be killed and deal with Trauma than be ripped apart celestially), but if it could be done, it would be a really effective way to eliminate one of the Inferno's forces. Maybe what could be done is just capture the Shedim, drag him to the tether, and keep him imprisoned there. Eventually, the Dissonance from not being able to corrupt his host will force him to try to escape /somehow/, and that's when the Malakim curb-stomp him. If he worked for Asmodeus, though, you'd have to exorcise him or something. Hmm... Exorcism. That's something else we need a system for... |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 00:52:19 -0800 (PST) From: Raven <94fa193@dvc.edu> Subject: IN> Kyriotates of Jordi and Biblical plagues > Three words: Plague of locusts. Something to make a plague of locusts even worse with Jordi's Kyriotates: You don't need to possess all of them. Locusts move in herds. All you need to do is steer the herd. Get enough locusts going one direction through possession, and more will follow, and more... Great way to destroy crops. The same could go with other social or swarming animals. You could cause a stampede, not by possessing every animal in the herd of whatevers, but by possessing just enough to aim the herd, and trigger a chain reaction. You could steer mass migrations of damn near anything this way. |\ /| | | |~~~ |\ | "It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've |_\ /_| | | |__ | \| got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, |\ | | \ | | | | it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." | \ | | \| |___ | | "Hit it." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 09:21:50 -0500 From: John Maurer Subject: IN> re: which is real religion? At 11:00 PM 3/7/97 -0600, you wrote: > okay, i dont want to start any sort of flame wars, and im not >trying to espouse anyone particualr doctrine, but how is the >Islam/Christianity division dealt with, i mean christianity ignores >mohammed, and islam says that jesus was just a prophet, who's right, or >are they both wrong Perhaps they are both right... My personal theory, and the one I use in IN: They are both right in some things and wrong in some things. Speaks "He was possessed of every art and grace except for that of making his own living" -Cold Comfort Farm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 97 09:25:59 -0600 (CST) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> re: which is real religion? At 09:21 AM 3/8/97 -0500, in_nomine-l@lists.io.com wrote: >At 11:00 PM 3/7/97 -0600, you wrote: >> okay, i dont want to start any sort of flame wars, and im not >>trying to espouse anyone particualr doctrine, but how is the >>Islam/Christianity division dealt with, i mean christianity ignores >>mohammed, and islam says that jesus was just a prophet, who's right, or >>are they both wrong > >Perhaps they are both right... > >My personal theory, and the one I use in IN: They are both right in some >things and wrong in some things. Given that Dominic and Laurence favor Christianity and Gabriel and (the as-yet unreleased) Khalid favor Islam, both religions are valid to the Angels as a whole, though some may not like that. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 10:33:07 -0500 From: Joshua Mosqueira Subject: Re: IN> Azrael, Uriel and others At 09:54 PM 3/7/97 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: >Angels', and Azrael is described as an angel of death, not veangance. I've been toynig with the idea of writing up the arcangel of death, because, frankly she/he is missing. There are two reasons why. The first being that not all arcangels, or even angels should be "good-guys". After all "god" did punish humanity by making adam and eve mortal, so there for there is a need for an angel of death. My take is that Azreal (although, technically, the angel of death is also supposed to be Gabriel along with mercy, vengence, revelation and annunciation [Davidson, 117]). Azreal's role would have to be very different than Samigna, maybe something akin to the Grim Reaper; a figure who's minions make sure that people die when they are supposed to, or to save them when they are not meant to die --- every one has a note to play in the Symphony, and death is aprt of it. This builds an interesting tension within servitors of Azreal.. and a healthy rivalry with Samigna. It could be that Azreal is also responsible to ferry the souls of the dead to their final destination, weather heaven or hell? Let's see what else I can come up with..... Later ______________________________________________ Joshua Mosqueira, effigy@total.net ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 12:10:45 +0000 From: dronf@io.com Subject: Re: IN> Munchkin Math! > One thing that immediately struck > me, though, was that the Malakite described in the snipped part above had no > way to injure anyone ouside the reach of his arms, and I've got a vision of > a Calabite with an M-16 backpedaling as he turns the Malakite into something > akin to Swiss cheese. "This is gonna hurt you a lot more than it will me!! > Yowza!!! Eat flaming death, choirboy!!" > And this is just how I handled it! (Although MY Calabite had an RPG launcher - I Tripled the check digit against his Level 6 Vessel, and you can bet, it HURT) Now the whining PC, a Malakim of Gabriel, just can't wait to buy that Smite Attunement. 'Course, he's gotta do something great, I mean fantastic, in order for ol' Gabe to say ok! - --------------------------------- Joel Cardella "Chinese food IS my life" http://www.io.com/~dronf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 10:04:07 -0600 (CST) From: Corey Subject: Re: IN> IN vs. INS/MV well IN seemed to focus away from the religious aspects of the game, and if i translated some of the french properly, i think that INS/MV focused on a catholic viewpoint, but this is only if i translated my french right, there is some INS/MV stuff around on the net, but it is in french Swear allegiance to the flag what ever flag they offer -Mike and the Mechanics "SIlent Running" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 12:39:06 -0500 (EST) From: HarlinHirs@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Azrael, Uriel and others In a message dated 97-03-08 10:36:15 EST, you write: > (although, > technically, the angel of death is also supposed to be Gabriel along with > mercy, vengence, revelation and annunciation [Davidson, 117]) We have to be careful here... if you check Azrael out in Davidson, you'll see that he, too is an angel of death. Most of the big-name angels were held to have several different functions in various of the apocalyptic books and legends of the few centuries on either side of the elusive 0 A.D., and most functions of any note were CERTAINLY duplicated... there are at least 7 Angels of Vengeance, 5 Angels of Death that I recall, and more Angels of Fire than you can shake a torch at... Because _A Dictionary of Angels_ is a survey and compilation of angels from various cultures and sub-cultures, it's inherently self-contradictory if each entry is viewed as exclusively "true"... Paul. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 13:26:45 -0600 (CST) From: James Kiley Subject: IN> Some random new artifacts For those of these that don't have Songs or Skills in them, I have no clue what the point cost would be; presumably more than three points per level. Suggestions are welcome; my tendency is to say that an Artifact which gives a Band Attunement-like power would cost around 10 points, but I don't see 15 as unreasonable. * A chain which allows someone using Asmodeus's Chains of Discord attunement to treat Discords as though they were three points of Dissonance per level for the purpose of that attunement. * A crowbar or turkey baster that pries or pops a non-owning soul out of a possessed body. * A whiffle bat that works like the Calabite of Lust Attunement -- it does Soul hits even to those protected by corporeal vessels. * A zippo lighter with a few levels of Seduction in it. * Glasses or a monocle which lets the wearer see others' Celestial forms in the corporeal realm. jk demon of bagels, in service to gluttony ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 16:04:41 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> re: which is real religion? On Sat, 8 Mar 1997, Andrew Getting wrote: > > >My personal theory, and the one I use in IN: They are both right in some > >things and wrong in some things. > > Given that Dominic and Laurence favor Christianity and Gabriel and > (the as-yet unreleased) Khalid favor Islam, both religions are valid > to the Angels as a whole, though some may not like that. > They may be 'valid' in that it may be alright for humans to believe in them, but both cannot be true. The questions that must be answered are 1) Which, if either, are true, and in what respects? and 2) Why on earth do the Angels tollerate falsehood? Why has an angel never been sent to the pope to set him straight? Note, by the way, that NEITHER religion can be true as commonly perceived. After all, neither orthodox Christians nor orthodox Muslims believe in the sorts of political conflicts in Heaven that In Nomine posits. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #60 ****************************** The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.