From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Apr 13 03:16:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA24023; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 03:06:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA18721 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:49:12 -0500 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:49:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199704130749.CAA18721@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #115 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, April 13 1997 Volume 01 : Number 115 In this digest: Re: IN> Differences between versions IN> woTRSc Last posts Re: IN> Differences between versions Re: IN> Celestial Population IN> More Heresy (was Jung and Freud go to Hell) RE: IN> woTRSc Last posts Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #112 Re: IN> woTRSc Last posts Re: IN> More Heresy (was Jung and Freud go to Hell) Re: IN> Elohim of Destiny Resonance ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:42:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" Subject: Re: IN> Differences between versions On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Tom Beliech wrote: [snip etc] > And anyway, maybe Universe is starting to see the Celestials as > inhibitors to the progress of humans! After all, when a "higher order" > of beings starts fighting over control of "lower" beings, doesn't that > imply some weakness in the "higher" folks? Maybe if all the demons and > angels would just LEAVE, we might work things out? After all, if > "history" is correct, humans have NEVER EVER had a moment's peace from > the attentions of the Celestials. Maybe it's time for the "parents" to > let the "kids" alone for a while - of course, I'm sure the angels might > consider this if the demons would cooperate. Perhaps Universe is > preparing to "clean house" and pull the annoying little higher beings > back into their respective corners to give humans a chance to get along > themselves. No more 1/1/1 rolls for a while - at least until humans > start learning the Symphony on their own, thus changing it. Hmmm....been watching a little too much Babylon 5 have we? :) - -Q - --------------------------------------- I dislike Windows95 for the same reason people dislike New Coke It tastes disgustingly like Pepsi. Scott "Q" Meyer Scott.E.Meyer@wheaton.edu http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer ------------------------------ Date: 12 Apr 97 05:13:55 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: IN> woTRSc Last posts The WOTC/TSR thing is not germane to the list, but, understandably, it's big news to all RPers. So, everyone is allowed one more post on the subject (if they want -- it's not obligatory) and then you must drop it. Go to the usenet newsgroups for more discussion on the topic than you can handle. Here is my... === Cynic's FAQ concerning the buyout: ==== Wizards of the Coast just bought TSR, isn't that *GREAT*!? They signed a letter of intent, the deal could still fall through. 'Great' depends on your point of view. If you would like to see the TSR line of D&D products continue to come to a screeching halt and WotC continue to waste its money, then, yes, it is great. Maybe now WotC can get TSR to do things right by my favorite TSR product (fill in your favorite D&D edition, module, license, world, dice, cards, etc...) and bring it back!!? I realize that you're reminiscing for an old product that you were fond of in your tender youth (just a few years ago), but it was probably dropped because it was no longer profitable. TSR was never that stupid that it would discontinue a profitable product. WOTC will not bring back some old dog dropped by TSR just because you're in a nostalgic fit. Maybe they'll revive D&D by hiring E. Gary Gygax?! There were not enough EGG worshippers to make any of his non-TSR products a go (even the ones not harassed by TSR), so, he'll make no difference with any form of D&D. Now that WOTC is going back to RPGs, will they bring back some of their old RPGs, like TPO? Are you on drugs? They killed it. Dead. Dead. Dead. They killed better selling RPGs because they didn't have a good enough profit margin. Does WotC know how to produce RPGs? Well, they certainly know how to kill 'em. Hey, that's not fair, this time there'll be able to throw all that CCG behind development and marketing, won't they? Yes, just like they did for The Primal Order, Talislanta, Ars Magica, and Everway. Won't this concentration of artists be a boon? Yes, just like the commitment to extreme production worked for Everway (not profitable) and Ars Magica (deemed not profitable a moment before printing). What will happen to the D&D RPG products? The lot on the shelves will probably be stickered 'property of WOTC'. A revised printing will be printed while they 'secretly' work on a new edition, thus making all those books on the shelves a dead product. They will spend too much money on hiring RPG authors and artists into overproducing AD&D 4th edition (what happened to third? -- don't ask). Then, one of three things will happen: 1) Deemed too costly to print and so they'll sell it off; 2) They'll sell a version too like the previous one, and thus, no one will buy it because it's too much like D&D; or 3) The new version will be very different and be decried by fans as not being D&D enough. [You see, sometimes the customers *are* wrong.] There *will be* AD&D: Forgotten Dark DOMINIA Realms Loftlance. They'll coat it with the same contact crack that they put on the cards. Will there be any D&D figures appearing in Magic: The Gathering? And what will happen to Spellfire. Spellfire is dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. Elminster and Beholder will appear in M:tG as outlandishly unbalanced super cards that will put all the Mox Jet cards combined put to shame. They will immediately be speculated up to thousands of dollars. Once WotC sells off their lot of Limited edition AD&D cards and the employees have made thousands with their personal sales of Elminsters and Beholders; Elminster and Beholder will then be declared illegal for tournaments and their value will plummet. [You see, sometimes the customers are just plain *dumb*.] Are you sure they won't bring back X (Buck Rogers, Hollow World, etc...)? Get over it. Grieve your loss and get on with life. They're dead. Dead. Dead. Dead. D&D has a slim chance of survival, the esoterica even less so. What will happen to the magazines, Dragon and Dungeon? Hmmm... publishing a magazine dedicated to a game whose product line will continue to founder in jumps and starts.... tough call. Either continuing to publish them or discontinuing them will both be bad decisions. Wonder how they'll manage to do both. I got it! They'll continue to publish them, but they'll come out so irregularly, that they'll lose their readership due to sheer frustration. And then WotC will be forced to dump them claiming that it's the fans' fault for not supporting them and making them profitable. And GEN CON? It's profitable. Contract in the can with MECCA for the next three years. WotC will let it ride while pushing their CCG and whatever's left of D&D in a manner more obnoxious than the TSR castle. By the fourth year, when they move it to wherever, it will be as odious to attend as Origins. woTSRc haters will be wearing their "Ars Magica Lives!" t-shirts. Is there any company more hated by woTSRc? Sure, just ask any author who hasn't been paid yet for the work they did for Small Company X. But woTSRc will be unique for being so popular and so hated simultaneously. It is the Microsoft of gaming. Are you sure about all this? Check the subject line of this FAQ again, bucko. Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 06:12:23 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Differences between versions personnally, i see Universe as the autonomic nervous system of God, that functions without supervision, like breathing and heart-beating---God can intervene in its function, but as long as things are working according to His Will, why should He? to stretch the analogy, the angels then become the white blood cells and nervous system cells that can act on their own locally while sending messages of ill-health/pain/trouble back to the body as a whole. Symphony disturbances are the hormone releases summoning other white blood cells to the site of the infection to fight it. Interventions, then, are responses to a situation that normally is handled autonomically--Divine Intervention being an innoculation while Infernal Intervention is an opportunistic infection that makes a cold turn into a case of walking pneumonia that lands you in the ICU of the hospital! see what kind of weird analogies you get when you give a nurse's son a little theological/philosophical cross-training before you make him a security guard? clean wings and clear skies, Tom ps: watch out for the Psi-cops....PMIBs if i ever saw one! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 21:08:30 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Population At 09:56 AM 11/4/97 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > >> The answer is 'bunches'. There is no useful reason to give >> an exact number, so the GM should just have them show up when >> dramatically necessary. The easiest way to do that is not to set >> a number at all! >> > An exact number might not be useful, but a vague idea would be extremely >helpful if your Angel characters are going to exist in any kind of a >social network. If Angels and Demons help each other out, then it >matters IMHO. Dear List just a side thought that occured to me. Although the total population of Celestials is one thing, the number of them in the Corporeal at any time is another. I would suspect that the percentage of demons on Earth against their total is greater then the percentage of angels. They have more reason to be away from their Superiors . Another side thought. The ratio of angels of each AA who might be on Earth? I would guess Eli having the most, because they are following their superiors lead. Any other thoughts? Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. > > > Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 21:35:18 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> More Heresy (was Jung and Freud go to Hell) Dear Roger, Earl, Elizabeth and List Just a few other odd thoughts to spice up your In Nomine background. There was no Fall. This is a good conspiracy theory for Celestial Politics. Lucifer didn't really have a problem with God. He was ordered to rebel and take a portion of the Divine Hosts into Hell with him. Why? Because Heaven needed an Adversary. It is not so hard to climb up to Heaven if you don't have to worry about falling to Hell. Demons provide tests of faith and make sure that no one cruises to their Heavenly reward without resisting temptation. This is interesting becase it means that Lucifer and his demons are really doing God's work, even if Lucifer hasn't explained it that way to all of them. More Jung In clasical Jungian form God has a multifaceted psyche and has spent a long time resolving tensions between them. In his continuing interaction his humans God realised that humans had the capacity to improve their positive side and quell their negative nature. Deciding this was a good thing to do God set about quelling his negative side and purging it from himself. This resulted in a very violent disturbance to Heaven which so confused the Divine realm that many angels turned against each other. The outcome was that a new Celestial spirit containing all the negative aspects of God was formed and ejected from Heaven. Hence the War and Lucifer. Having been ejected Lucifer, the anti-God, (being true to his nature as only a Celestial can be) set up his negative Heaven and recruited some of the more confused angels to form his Dark Host. You can extend this theory of experimentation by God to cover his attempt to experience the way humans improve their positive side in the form of Jesus. Sometimes you can see further if you take a look from a different perspective. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours, Phasekiel, Elohim of Destiny, the Angel of Heresy. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 10:27:09 -0700 From: John Gonzalez Subject: RE: IN> woTRSc Last posts - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC472C.157D5640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> That's all true, to my way of thinking, but my main complaint is that = woTSR will do the same thing that they did the SLA Industries. There is = a huge movement inside WotC to make everything "commercial" and = "mainstream" Given the popular, I repeat popular (read layman, non-Gamer) opinion of = D&D, I think that there is a high probability that they will water it = down, water down all the potentially objectionable elements that won't = sell in Peoria (no offense to any Gamers in Peoria, of course.) 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I just heard today, maybe I'm >> > behind the times. I just can't wait to see Monstrous Manual Third Edition >> > featuring Plague Rats and Benalish Heroes. If you'll excuse me, I'm gonna >> > go play in traffic. >> > >> Rules for playing AD&D in Dominia or Dominaria or whatever its called >> might just be the biggest shot in the arm the R.P.G. industry ever had. I >> for one, hope they do it - once we get card players to play AD&D, we can >> then evolve them into GURPS players. >> > >Hurrah!! >mmmm... GURPS.... Ah yes... Personally, I think CCGs have gotten a little out of control. That's why I only play wargames and RPGs. Well, I do play INWO. But only because it makes me laugh. BTW, GURPS ROCKS!!! Hollis McCray Madman at Large email: Mccrayh@yoda.cochise.cc.az.us "No matter where you go, there you are." - -Buckaroo Banzai ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 17:15:55 +0500 From: Daiv Barr Subject: Re: IN> woTRSc Last posts Gee, Moriah, do idetect a note of bitterness in you personal symphony....? - -Daiv (whose mother was scared by an Iron skilet while pregnat with him) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 97 22:02:47 -0500 (CDT) From: kestre1@airmail.net (Andrew Getting) Subject: Re: IN> More Heresy (was Jung and Freud go to Hell) Other ideas: The Preacher-Sandman Game "Yeh know, havin' met the good Lord face to face, I think I can honestly say he's a bit of a prick..." -Cassidy, "Preacher #24" God has quit ruling Heaven, and sojourned to Earth for reasons known only to Himself. Satan is likewise missing. The Celestials are now essentially in charge. Satan Was Right Not for the Christian crowd, unless you make it a satire. When God created humans, Satan foretold that this would be a mistake. Recent events are showing that this is true; maybe angels are spontaneously becoming Remnants after meeting some of the latest generation of mortals, or maybe Heaven and Hell and the Marches are being destroyed in the wake of an Age of Reason. Or maybe it's an Infernalist plot. A related story idea would be Hell winning the War, and Earth becoming another Hell. Another would be humanity discovering the Celestials, and warring upon both. Elder Darkness The PCs, while journeying through a particularly desolate stretch of the Marches, their home realm, or even Earth, come across a city beneath an ocean. Examination reveals that the city is made by a technology totally foreign to Jean and Vapula both, and that a creature more potent than an Archangel sleeps within. Talks with Yves or Kronos reveal that neither of them remember it. Soon enough, the stars are right... Truce The War is over. Hostages (the PCs) are exchanged, and both sides swear off journeys to Earth and the Marches. The PCs are, of course, given orders to sabotage the opposition, or perhaps they find a rogue council of Celestials who want the War back. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 12:42:12 -0400 From: "C. J. Hunter" Subject: Re: IN> Elohim of Destiny Resonance : Just want to say, that today I bought a die to be my official check digit. : It was $4.95 and is HUGE! Gots to roll it on the floor. Don't want to scuff : table. And it doubles nicely as a melee weapon... Power +1. ;) .j. bcnu ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #115 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.