From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Apr 15 19:57:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16913; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:29:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA07355 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:50:05 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:50:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199704152350.SAA07355@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #119 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, April 15 1997 Volume 01 : Number 119 In this digest: Re: IN> Plot Seed - Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #117 Re: IN> Why conceal? RE: IN> Vessel costs (was: Dreamscapes) Re: IN> Why conceal? Re: IN> Mammon, Prince of Greed IN> A Few Thoughts (Deranged as they may be) IN> IN: The Secret War IN> The Lords of Illusion IN> Inspired by The Saint Re: IN> Know the Enemy #4 IN> Oh what a tangled web we Weave....again Re: IN> Adventure: Fire in the Yucatan Re: IN> Other Campaigns (was More Heresy) Re: IN> Mammon, Prince of Greed Re: IN> Know the Enemy #4 Re: IN> Inspired by The Saint Re: IN> Other Campaigns (was More Heresy) Re: IN> Why conceal? Re: IN> Adventure: Fire in the Yucatan Re: IN> House Rules Re: IN> Other Campaigns (was More Heresy) Re: IN> Why conceal? Re: IN> House Rules Re: IN> Adventure: Fire in the Yucatan RE: IN> Kyriotates of Michael with multiple vessels. (was: IN> Dr eamscapes) Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #117 RE: IN> Vessel costs (was: Dreamscapes) Re: IN> Inspired by The Saint Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #117 Re: IN> Adventure Seed: In All of Creation... IN> Songs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:36:28 +1000 (EST) From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Plot Seed - Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition Dear Sam (and List) **snip** >>Perhaps one good thing is that demons will also >> stay clear of the characters, they don't want the Inquisitor's attention either. > >Alternatively, the demons will take this opportunity to wreak havoc: the >Inquisition is interested in punishing the PCs, and is in fact not that >bothered in thwarting demons. Hell, the Inquisitor could even be a demon >;-); alternatively, demons should try and frame the PCs, make the >Inquisitor make as many wrong judgements as possible/ignore demonic >activity in favour of victimising angels, in the hope of having him Fall >;-). All possibilities, and if you make this thing go slow you can do a lot with it. In fact it can be a background part of a campaign for a long time. >> When things look bleakest Dominic appears and commands all his servitors to >> halt. > >This seems like storylining to me. It is. Part of IN for me is that the players are in the end pawns, even if they are favoured ones, very necessary ones, "sometimes you just have to do what you're told" as some one said. >> Of course the whole thing was a set up from the start. Which is why the >> other ArchAngels let it go. > >All of the other Archangels are going to roll over and let Dominic play >around with one of his servitors, wasting their favoured servitors' time >and tarnishing their reputation? Surely not. There will be opposition >from other archangels; if the Angel of Judgement has so much discord, a >lot of people will want rid of him. For that matter, it *could* be a >set-up, but by Dominic's rivals: the PCs' own Superiors may have framed >them, fed the information to the Inquisitor, then after a while called >Dominic. You can do it that way, but in the end the Players will have had no harm done and may have a better understanding of how matters stand. I do think that the Archangels do play a bit of a veto on each other when something comes under their "jurisdiction". Is anyone going to go up against Yves if he says I _know_ that this is a matter of Destiny. As far as Major angels having high levels of Discord, I found it a bit hard to swollow to, but God's mills are not interested in when they grind up those who do wrong, just that wrongdoers be punished. Thanking you for your indulgence. Yours Peter. Email to peterf@geko.net.au "Whoso loveth God truely must not expect to be loved by Him in return." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:04:29 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #117 RogueLdr wrote: "I figured out that the odds of getting an Intervention roll are 1 in 109. 1 in 218 for eacc type. So someone please explain how one of my players, a Malakim Of War, managed THREE Divine Interventions in the space of twelve rolls!?!?!?! He wasn't cheating, I watched every single roll. The dice were not loaded. The poor bastard demon he was fighting didn't have a bloody *chance*." Ah, well, just because God doesn't play dice with the universe, it doesn't follow He might not play with YOUR dice occasionally... Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:19:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Thany Subject: Re: IN> Why conceal? On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Walt Mazur wrote: > Who sees with equal eye, as God of all, > A hero perish or a sparrow fall, ... > --Alexander Pope > Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? > And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. > --Matthew 10:29 So God, for his own reasons, has a special lot in falling sparrows? (I just don't get this whole monotheism thing, anyway...) - -- "Victory is achieved through the paths of virtue, not the commands of DOS." Disclaimer: I babble. A lot. If you don't understand something I said, don't worry, I probably don't, either. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:52:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Glimmer Man Subject: RE: IN> Vessel costs (was: Dreamscapes) On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Perry Lloyd wrote: > I imagine it would be taxing (heh heh, timely pun, eh?) on the old > essence to create a Vessel, rather than have one created for you by > your superior. Perhaps 3x Vessel Level in essence? That would put > the upper limit on Vessel/3 however, perhaps 2x? That would put the > upper limit at Vessel/4, though. How about a 1:1 ratio of Essence to > vessel level? (snip) > Perry M. Lloyd Actually, your first suggestion had a nice symmetry to it: A typical "lesser" Celestial (7 Forces) is limited to a vessel/2. A beginning PC Celestial is limited to a vessel/3. A maxed-out powerhouse (18 Forces) can _just_ pull down a vessel/6. This lets a PC make a reasonable set of "spares," yet still keeps that nice combat-ready vessel/6 from being easily replaced. Besides, if vessels were as cheap as 1:1, why isn't _every_ Celestial puttering around in a 5 or 6? Also, any suggestions for Charisma cost? One or two Essence per level sounds right (with my personal vote leaning towards 1/level; you can make a _really_nice_ vessel/3, or a "plain" vessel/4). -Heath Reynolds (hareyn01@morehead-st.edu) "Not a man to mince words. People, yes. But not words." -Terry Pratchett, _Small Gods_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:40:18 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Why conceal? Thany wrote: > So God, for his own reasons, has a special lot in falling sparrows? > (I just don't get this whole monotheism thing, anyway...) in response to a couple of quotes by Walt Mazur. I think Mr. Mazur was gently pointing out that the concept just posted, that God doesn't know what's going on, is far from traditional monotheism, in which God is all-knowing (as well as all-powerful, present everywhere, and perfectly good). The falling sparrows illustrate God's attention to the least detail. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:26:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Mammon, Prince of Greed On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Hatcher Rhanyr wrote: > MAMMON Funny you should write about him. Mammon has a major role in the campaign I am running at the moment. Although he is technically the Demon Prince of Greed, Mammon has expanded his word to the point where he is nearly the Prince of Materialism. Mammon has been working for a century to make materialism the pragmatic religion of the world. Whereas other religions ask you to wait for an afterlife or work hard to find Nirvana, materialism promises instant gratification. Mammon has made a great deal of progess, especially in the West. Secretly, Mammon is aiming very high indeed. Other Demon Princes plot to oust Satan. Mammon would not be satisfied with merely being the ruler of Hell. Mammon hopes to undercut all religious feelings in humanity and thereby take the place of God Himself. Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Web Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:53:04 -0400 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: IN> A Few Thoughts (Deranged as they may be) Once again I'm letting everyone get a peek at what's on my mind.... Thought #1 - I watched the movie Goldeneye the other night and began to wonder about a character based upon the character Natalia Onatop (forgive me if I misspelled the name). I was think a Lilim of War with a Sadomasachistic streak...comments?? Thought #2- Once again I've been thinking about those Word bound guys who are so much fun to encounter. (I love the idea of the Demon of Forgetfulness....err what's his name again? heheheheeh) The one I've been thinking about is the Demon of Drug Abuse. Now there would be a popular guy albeit a little undependable. Any thoughts on this guy?? Thought #3- I had the song "Cult of Personality" in my head the other day and suddenly was totally inspired. I was thinking about a diabolically controlled group similar to the Billionaire Boys Club (if you remember that made for TV movie you're better than most people). I'd say Mammon would have something to do with these guys. Comments ?? Well there's what is currently occupying my thoughts. Hatcher "Angel of Obscure References" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:12:40 -0700 From: Roger Carbol Subject: IN> IN: The Secret War On the topic of keeping the Angelic/Demonic conflict hush-hush, I seem to remember a short story, and possibly also a new Twilight Zone episode, in which EVERYONE had to watch a 1/2 hour Angelic sermon every night, or maybe every week. The punishment for missing one? A single second of Hell. The punishment for missing two is too awful to describe. Anyone know of what I speak? It might have been one of Ellison's; my memory fades in my old age...(now there's a demon worth remembering: the Demon of Forgetfulness.) Roger Carbol .. rog@col.ca .. forget-me-not, drinker of Lethe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:40:08 -0400 From: Hatcher Rhanyr Subject: IN> The Lords of Illusion Here's an idea I had based on the movie "Lord of Illusions". I think it sort fits the IN game style although how you'd introduce a member I think should be well planned. Tell me what you think!! ******************************************* The Lords of Illusion Shrouded in mystery amongst the Qabalah and other mystical practicioners is a group of sorcerors that call themselves the Lords of Illusion. The group has existed for centuries though there is little evidence that the current Lords have lived that long. In recent years the Lords have become reclusive to the extent of hermitism; they teach no one and ask to be left alone. Somehow a good deal of this current point revolves around one of the Lords calling himself Nixx Nixx began a cult in the mid-eighties and these cultists followed him like a messiah. One of the cultists was a man calling himself Swann. The Lords managed to convince Swann that what Nixx had begun was wrong and that the atrocities being performed must stop. So armed with devices of his and the other Lords construction, Swann went into the Cult's Nevada stronghold and "killed" Nixx. Most of the Lords, Swann included, question whether or not Nixx could be killed. Most fear that Nixx was and still is undead and that these devices only caused him to be put in a state of hybernation. Currently Swann is the only member of the Lords who has taken up the role of a stage magician. Most people think that Swann is an excellent magician but doubt the reality of his illusions. However if they knew the truth of it all, most people would cower in fear before him. GAME MECHANICS The Lords of Illusions are a very reclusive group, and anyone encountering one should realize that there is a purpose for it. All the Lords should be considered to have at least 7 Forces. Those that are alive today are quite old so their Corporeal Forces would be less than normal but otherwise they are as powerful today as they were in their prime. Swann is the youngest member of the Lords. Each of the Lords possess a song like ability to create perfect illusions. This ability functions similarly to the Ethereal Song of Light. However an observer may make a perception roll, minus this ability level to distinguish between reality and illusion. However there are also other modifiers that can come in play that are totally at the discretion of the Gamemaster. To invoke this ability the Lord must make a successful roll with Will+Ability Level as the target. Note also that this ability can not be raised higher than six, much like a skill or a song. ************************* Swann Lord of Illusion Corporeal 2 Str 4 Agi 4 Ethereal 3 Int 6 Per 6 Celestial 3 Wil 7 Pre 5 Human/3 Role: Stage Musician (Status/5) Skills: Dodge/3, Emote/2, Escape/5, Knowledge (Mystical)/4, Lock Picking/5 Songs: Healing (Corporeal)/3, Dreams (Corporeal)/2, Motion (Corporeal)/4, Illusion/5 Discord: Fear/3 (Nixx and his Cult) Swann feels that the other Lords took advantage of him when they asked him to kill Nixx. He still has nightmares about his confrontation with the cult leader and fears the day that he has to confront him again. Swann is currently married to a woman he saved from being sacrificed by the cult. At the time she was only a child, but both have grown to love each other. ************************ Hope you liked it! Hatcher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:51:09 -0400 From: Tim Seiger Subject: IN> Inspired by The Saint Ok, this is my first real idea contribution, and I'm afraid it's not superbly thought out, but I thought I'd throw it out anyway to see what people think. Here goes. This past weekend I saw the movie _The Saint_, I recommend it if you haven't seen it allready. Anyway, so as not to give anything away, I will let you all know that this idea has very little to do with the actual movie. In the movie, Val Kilmer (sorry if I misspelled it) plays a character who goes by many names, all of them names of saints. This led me to think, what if there were a secret organization of humans (soldiers perhaps) that were dedicated to helping the angels in the war. Each of these elite take the name of the saint that most suits them, and perhaps have some alternate form of identification, like that great pin everyone has seen in the trailers. Now, these humans would need to have some way of identifying an angel, I'm not sure of the rules for soldiers detecting disturbances in the symphony, but an enhanced ability for that might suffice. Then imagine your party of angels gets into a bind, and seemeingly out of nowhere comes a man who introduces himself as Thomas Moore, named for the saint who ... I have only one problem, in that I'm am not familiar at all with the numerous saints. If anyone could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. Hope you can all get some mileage from this. - -Tim, not-so-favoured servitor of the Angel of Cinematography on loan to the Demon of misspelling ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:39:00 -0700 From: Hollis McCray Subject: Re: IN> Know the Enemy #4 At 10:45 PM 4/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >thank the Archangel of Sanity-Preservation! another Know the Enemy list. >did i just come late to the dance, or are you planning to do a KtE >series from the heavenly viewpoints? I wish she would! I'm playing an angel's campiagn(being me, I serously mess with the concepts of good and evil) and I could use the help. Hollis McCray Madman at Large email: Mccrayh@yoda.cochise.cc.az.us "No matter where you go, there you are." - -Buckaroo Banzai ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:47:48 -0700 From: Hollis McCray Subject: IN> Oh what a tangled web we Weave....again Sorry, people. My last post was incomplete. Here's what it should have said. Here's an idea I'm throwing around EIther Heaven or Hell is planning on proving to the mortal real the exixtence of the whole shebang-heaven, hell, angels, demons, Gos, Satan, etc. The PCs are drafted by one side or the other to help/ preven this cause. Ideas: Did one of the PCs fall/repent recently? Do they know someone who did? This could be a chance at espionage(either contracting the risen/fallen person or being cntacted by your former side). Working to prevent/help the revelation: What needs to be gathered? Who needs to be convinced ahead of time? Let's discuss this. Hollis McCray Madman at Large email: Mccrayh@yoda.cochise.cc.az.us "No matter where you go, there you are." - -Buckaroo Banzai ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:21:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Russ Collins Subject: Re: IN> Adventure: Fire in the Yucatan This is an interesting adventure, but a Mayan god is more likely to be at home in the Yucatan than an Aztec one, IMHO. Russ Collins rgc@io.com "Get in line in that processional Step into that small confessional There the guy who's got religion'll Tell you if your sin's original. If it is, try playing it safer -- Drink the wine and chew the wafer. 2 4 6 8 -- Time to transubstatiate!" Tom Lehrer, "The Vatican Rag" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:41:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Russ Collins Subject: Re: IN> Other Campaigns (was More Heresy) On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >Acutally one variant that I thinkn IN screams out for is the Historical > >Campaign, with settings in other historical periods. In fact to go the > >whole hog you can have a group of players who are assigned to work together > >could only be mobilised every 20 to 50 years when needed. I can see the > >players leaving families of servitors behind to make sure they have support > >when they get sent back to Earth the next time. Start them off about 800 AD > >and bring them up through history 50 years at a time. > > And then run it up through the cyberpunk era, and/or a Federation > style era... Angels in starships! I love it! I vaguely recall reading somewhere that there was a spin-off game (or perhaps just a supplement?) in France that does take the War into the far future, even past the Second Coming. Does anybody here know anything about such a game? Russ Collins rgc@io.com (Sorry, out of lines from The Vatican Rag.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 13:02 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Mammon, Prince of Greed [Paul Strack:] > Although he is technically the Demon Prince >of Greed, Mammon has expanded his word to the point where he is nearly the >Prince of Materialism. Reading somewhat between the lines in the book, I get the impression that Haagenti is already covering this somewhat -- he's the ultimate in "comsumerism".... As I recall, one or more of his attunements cover more than just consuming food. Which wouldn't mean that Mammon couldn't also cover this area -- that would merely put them in comflict, which is nothing new for Demon Princes.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:42:38 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Know the Enemy #4 Hollis McCray wrote: > > At 10:45 PM 4/14/97 -0500, you wrote: > >thank the Archangel of Sanity-Preservation! another Know the Enemy list. > >did i just come late to the dance, or are you planning to do a KtE > >series from the heavenly viewpoints? > I wish she would! I'm playing an angel's campiagn(being me, I serously mess > with the concepts of good and evil) and I could use the help. > Hollis McCray > Madman at Large > email: Mccrayh@yoda.cochise.cc.az.us > > "No matter where you go, there you are." > -Buckaroo Banzai shall the Angel of List-Opinion drop a more subtle hint on Liz's head--say, maybe, a ton of bricks??? i'm sure she can manage this in the 1.2 spare seconds she has between the other events that make up her life ;-} ;-} til Michael becomes a Servitor of Novalis, Tom. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:46:52 +0000 From: "Bodhi" Subject: Re: IN> Inspired by The Saint If you want some good stuff on Saints, go to http://www.catholic.org/saints/ It should help you flesh out your ideas. Good luck. Walk in Beauty, Rob Wolff / Bodhi rob@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:53:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Kellskn@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Other Campaigns (was More Heresy) In a message dated 97-04-14 07:35:31 EDT, you write: > Acutally one variant that I thinkn IN screams out for is the Historical > Campaign, with settings in other historical periods. In fact to go the > whole hog you can have a group of players who are assigned to work together > could only be mobilised every 20 to 50 years when needed. I can see the > players leaving families of servitors behind to make sure they have support > when they get sent back to Earth the next time. Start them off about 800 AD > and bring them up through history 50 years at a time. > I had considered a historical campaign, but didn't want to "locked into" one specific period of time. Your suggestion works, or alternatively, you could do a modern campaign with "flashbacks" using characters pre-generated by the GM. Flashbacks would be story related i.e. if you were running FEAST OF BLADES (the story from the GM pack) you could run a sideline story about past struggles involving the Dagger of Bithynia, or even a hell-based story about it's creation. This play style can give extensive background information on anything or anyone (How exactly did Haagenti rise from familiar to Prince?) Drawbacks are that PC's don't have complete free will. Certain events HAVE to happen. We're not time travelling. You can't change the future in a flashback, only define it better. - Kellskn, - Malakite of David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:03:34 -0400 From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" Subject: Re: IN> Why conceal? On Apr 15, 8:19am, Thany wrote: > Subject: Re: IN> Why conceal? > > On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Walt Mazur wrote: > > > Who sees with equal eye, as God of all, > > A hero perish or a sparrow fall, > ... > > --Alexander Pope > > > Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? > > And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. > > --Matthew 10:29 > > So God, for his own reasons, has a special lot in falling sparrows? > (I just don't get this whole monotheism thing, anyway...) Running bet with Lucifer, no doubt. Y'see the original Fall was over an argument about a gambling debt... ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | | (919)380-4629 | | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | | In this country we tax success most of all." | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:11:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul F. Strack" Subject: Re: IN> Adventure: Fire in the Yucatan On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Russ Collins wrote: > This is an interesting adventure, but a Mayan god is more likely to be at > home in the Yucatan than an Aztec one, IMHO. Yes, I agree. But I found it much easier to find out information about Aztec gods than Mayan ones. Plus Aztec dieties have a nastier reputation in modern circles. Actually, when I ran the game, I pointed out that the ruins in the Yucatan were Mayan, rather than Aztec, but the players didn't make too much of that information. Perhaps Huehueteotl is manipulating his servants, pretending to be a Mayan god. Paul Paul Strack | Madness takes its toll. pfstrack@math.unc.edu | Please have exact change. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Web Page - http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/pfstrack/wod.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:08:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Kellskn@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> House Rules In a message dated 97-04-14 08:00:47 EDT, you write: > two house rules we have instigated. > > First is not too radical. Body hits formula changed to vessel level * > (Strength + Corp Forces.). This brings the body hits of everyone down a > bit, but still makes 40 achievable and one PC ended up with 68. > > Second - No Essence spent on a failed Song Roll. This is a bit of a change. > A couple of reasons for it. First there was a thought that characters > should just buy all the Songs they really wanted to use at rank 5 or 6 to > make sure they succeded and that they didn't spend all their essence for > nothing. This means no one would have a lot of Songs or they wouldn't have > anything else. Second I didn't want characters spending all their Essence > and getting no result. So now on a Song Roll failure you still generate the > base disruption to the Symphony, but you don't spend any Essence. A variant > of this which I just thought of is that a failure expends 1 Essence, rather > than the full amount. > Thanks for the ideas. One of my players had body hits of 90, and another had 136! The rest of the group was around 16. Now I can even it out while still giving a (small) advantage to those who payed for it in creation. Also, combat is deadlier!! Second, half my group are Soldiers of Hell, with average corporeal forces of two. Since all their songs are corporeal, the average target number for songs is 3. Twice characters have wasted ALL their essence on failed songs, and only once has any song succeeded. Still, a 1 essence penalty for a failed song is appropriate. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:39:13 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Other Campaigns (was More Heresy) Russ Collins wrote: "I vaguely recall reading somewhere that there was a spin-off game (or perhaps just a supplement?) in France that does take the War into the far future, even past the Second Coming. Does anybody here know anything about such a game?" There's "Rapture: The Second Coming," by Quintessential Mercy Studios. I didn't think it was French, but I wasn't looking. It is set in the time between the Second Coming and Armageddon (seven years, according to one school of interpretation; three and a half according to another). It is also somewhat in the future, that future being rather cyberpunkish up to the point of the Rapture, whereon nature starts to go berserk, demons walk abroad, and the Antichrist starts his rise. Going on with the idea of angels in space, C. S. Lewis wrote a trilogy of SF/fantasy books, back in the '40s, set on Mars, Venus, and Earth, with angels making appearances on all three worlds. These angels are more like "celestial forms," though, or "energy beings." The ones met on Mars and Venus have never encountered humans before and have some difficulty figuring out how to appear to them -- which is a little rough on the humans. (A bit like seeing a Kyriotate in its celestial form.) The three titles are: Out of the Silent Planet Perelandra That Hideous Strength All three are still in print and often available in bookstores. Earl Wajenberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:34:15 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Why conceal? On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:40:18 -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >in response to a couple of quotes by Walt Mazur. I think Mr. Mazur >was gently pointing out that the concept just posted, that God doesn't >know what's going on, is far from traditional monotheism, in which >God is all-knowing (as well as all-powerful, present everywhere, and >perfectly good). Just so. So the answer to the question, "Why are things the way they are?" must be, "God wants them this way." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:42:09 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> House Rules On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:08:14 -0400 (EDT), Kellskn@aol.com wrote: > Thanks for the ideas. One of my players had body hits of 90, and another >had 136! The rest of the group was around 16. Now I can even it out while >still giving a (small) advantage to those who payed for it in creation. > Also, combat is deadlier!! Sounds like they've been optimized for Corporeal combat. Throw some Ethereal or Celestial attacks at them. Those with huge bodies will probably be wimps in the other realms. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:33:31 -0400 From: John Maurer Subject: Re: IN> Adventure: Fire in the Yucatan At 02:11 PM 4/15/97 -0400, Paul F. Strack wrote: >On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Russ Collins wrote: >> This is an interesting adventure, but a Mayan god is more likely to be at >> home in the Yucatan than an Aztec one, IMHO. > >Yes, I agree. But I found it much easier to find out information about >Aztec gods than Mayan ones. Plus Aztec dieties have a nastier reputation >in modern circles. Also realize that the Aztecs did a liberal amount of borrowing from other cultures. They tended to Co-opt the foreign gods into versions of their own. Much as the Romans took the Greek and Egyptian gods. The deity in question could have been a Mayan god who was distorted/changed by Aztec influences. Speaks "Okay... things get worse. Then they get better. Then they get worse again... then lots of stuff blows up... people die... others are born... more stuff blows up... and then it ends." -- JMS on the future of the Babylon 5 storyline or me on life. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:45:20 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Kyriotates of Michael with multiple vessels. (was: IN> Dr eamscapes) You're missing my point, Perry: I purchased all three vessels at character creation. I only want to know how much it costs me to materialize a second (or third) vessel when I already have one active vessel on the corporeal plane. This isn't about creating vessels, but about toggling the Corporeal/Potential bit for each of them. steve > -----Original Message----- > From: Perry Lloyd [SMTP:lloydpe@yang.earlham.edu] > Sent: Monday, April 14, 1997 7:08 PM > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: RE: IN> Dreamscapes > > On Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:55:57 -0700 > Steven Feldon > > > While we're working on hard Kyriotate questions, imagine this > situation. > > > > Kyriotate of Michael has chosen to generate more than one of his own > > vessels. (In this case, a human, a cat, and a bird.) The rules > specify > > that it takes no Essence to move to the Corporeal Plane, but the > Book > > never specifies how much if might cost to materialize a body if you > > already have one on Earth. It _does_ say that it costs one Essence > to > > switch from one vessel to another, though, which shoots down the > thought > > that it might be free to shift forms in and out. . . > > > > I imagine it would be taxing (heh heh, timely pun, eh?) on the old > essence to create a Vessel, rather than have one created for you by > your superior. Perhaps 3x Vessel Level in essence? That would put > the upper limit on Vessel/3 however, perhaps 2x? That would put the > upper limit at Vessel/4, though. How about a 1:1 ratio of Essence to > vessel level? This would allow for multiple vessels to be created > AND act as a reminder that the Angel can only have a number of hosts > equal to her total Forces, which would reflect the amout of Essence > she has to spend on Vessels. On the only hand, the GM may let the > Angel create a vessel with Vessel/(Corporeal forces of Angel) for > merely 1 essence. That would be nice. An angel with Corporeal > Forces of 3 could create four Vessel/3 vessels for merely 4 essence. > That would impressive... maybe too impressive... > > Perry M. Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:37:42 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #117 On Mon, 14 Apr 1997 21:25:01 -0500 (CDT) rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) wrote: > Oh, and just out of curiosity.... > > I figured out that the odds of getting an Intervention roll are 1 in 109. 1 > in 218 for eacc type. So someone please explain how one of my players, a > Malakim Of War, managed THREE Divine Interventions in the space of twelve > rolls!?!?!?! He wasn't cheating, I watched every single roll. The dice > were not loaded. The poor bastard demon he was fighting didn't have a > bloody *chance*. > > -Rogue, who stole the Dominicnet and apologizes to it's creator > That's easy to explain. I love gaming because of the amazing odds that are beaten all the time. SOMEONE, or SOMETHING wanted that demon dead. Heh, heh... I love dice, they do really cool stuff and mess with our heads. On every roll of 3d6 there is a 0.5% chance of three of any one number (that little datum's from GURPS Basic Set), thus while "unlikely" there is always the slim chance of rolling three of a kind, like 1/1/1 or 6/6/6 :) Why does stuff like this happen? Why is the sky blue? Why does lightning strike twice in the same place? I say "God and stuff" because that explanation works for me. I love this genre most of all with the Divine Intervention rules. :) HOW did it do it? Just like that. Once when I was playing Risk, I had a small nation (in SE Asia I think) and a nation to the north kept trying to smite me. I had ONE army, in order to succeed I had to roll a 6. I was REALLY pissed by this time because I had had my butt kicked all over the board. I remember being so angry, feeling it all buzz in my head. I rolled a six. He attacked, I rolled another six. I ended up rolling six 6's in a row. The "chance" of that happening is RATHER slim... but it happened. I remember that after the sixth six, I was tired of being angry, I felt drained and felt something shift in my consciousness. I rolled a 5 on my seventh roll. That was intense... I love dice. Perry M Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:57:07 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: RE: IN> Vessel costs (was: Dreamscapes) On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Glimmer Man wrote: that nice combat-ready vessel/6 from being easily replaced. Besides, if > vessels were as cheap as 1:1, why isn't _every_ Celestial puttering > around in a 5 or 6? Also, any suggestions for Charisma cost? One or two > I didn't know any angel could create spare vessels? I thought that only certain angels could, like a Kyriotate of War... Perry M Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:46:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Inspired by The Saint At 10:51 AM -0400 4/15/97, Tim Seiger wrote: >This past weekend I saw the movie _The Saint_, I recommend it if you >haven't seen it allready. [...] >In the movie, Val Kilmer (sorry if I misspelled it) plays a character >who goes by many names, all of them names of saints. ( Instead of all the various and amusing "S.T." alisas that he goes by in the books and TV series. Alas, alas, Sebastion Tombs is no more! ) But I still want to see it. I think. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:43:41 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #117 At 9:25 PM -0500 4/14/97, RogueLdr wrote: >> >>>> Phasekiel, >>>> Elohim of Destiny, >>>> the Angel of Heresy. >>> >>>I'm sure that you and Dominic get along just famously. >> >>Or at least get together for tea every other weekend, to ... discuss >>matters. Then again, if I were a Seraph, I'd consider being scared >>to use my resonance on someone like this. What if I got a 6 CD and >>some of it were *True*?? >> >>- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net >>GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ >> > >ERROR. ERROR. THIS TRANSMISSION DEEMED HERETICAL BY DOMINICNET. REPORT TO >THE HALLS OF JUDGMENT IMMEDIATELY. Who, me? But what did *I* say? Besides, I've got all these books to shelve. Is it okay if only part of me reports? Archangel Beth, Kyrio of Archives... >So someone please explain how one of my players, a >Malakim Of War, managed THREE Divine Interventions in the space of twelve >rolls!?!?!?! He wasn't cheating, I watched every single roll. The dice >were not loaded. The poor bastard demon he was fighting didn't have a >bloody *chance*. The Dice Never Lie. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:38:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed: In All of Creation... At 7:34 PM +1100 4/15/97, Patrick O'Duffy wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >> Okay, this will probably trip all over the Creation cycle, next year, >> with hobnailed boots. [...] >> >> I got this out of a dream, sort of... >> > [snip of a 'find the archangel' storyline] > > Excellent stuff, Elizabeth. Very cool indeed. Thank you! > The only things I'd >comment on is that 1) it's more like a campaign arc than an adventure >seed - it should take quite a while to find an Archangel who doesn't >feel like being found; Yeah, I know! *wails in despair* But it seemed amusing, and it wrote itself down in only 2.5 handwritten pages... >and 2) you'd need an experienced player group, so >that they could try and understand the mindset of Eli without being >force-fed clues by the GM. Also true, and something I *hadn't* thought of. *sigh* I liked the political machinations behind it, though... > Must admit, I couldn't use it - I'm trying to think up introductory >adventures for IN, now that my Theatrix campaign has died in the arse. >You and Bodhi keep coming up with ideas that revolutionize long-term >campaigns, goldurn it. Oh, well! I guess I need to tell my brain to work on *introductory* stuff... (Revolutionize long-term campaigns? I thought that was only my first... ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:01:51 GMT+10 From: "Leathal Weapon" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Songs. In reply to: > This > would allow characters to accidentally create new songs, kinda. > > You may wish to only have new song creation occur with a 1/1/1 or a > 6/6/6, in the character's favor, of course. New songs are fun, kinda > like creating a new magical spell by messing up a previous one. > My favorite still remains having the song blow up in the singer's > face. Nothing quite like that chaotic energy looking to do something > without enough guidance. On the Songs topic, here's an idea I've been toying around with: Anti-Songs (for want of a better name). Basically I see this as if a Celestial sings a Song BACKWARDS it can cancel the effects of the same Song just sung properly. Whether this would require the character to learn the Song backwards, or merely take a Will (Perception, Intelligence?) roll to be able to reverse the 'words', I'm not sure. The time limit would be either while the original Song is still in effect (for duration Songs) or the character's Will in rounds (for instantaneous Songs). For example, an Angel sings the Corporeal Song of Healing on a mortal who just got hit in a crossfire. Our Demon (with a Will of 6) has 30 seconds to sing the Anit-song if he wants that Mortal to stay damaged. If the opposing Anti-song is sung correctly, then the system to determine which Song takes effect is the same as any other contested roll (look at the Check Digits) although I'd allow the characters to spend extra Essence to add to the CD for purposes of letting their Song establish dominance (in efffect they are pumping extra fuel into it while it fades). This could make Songs quite a bit more Noisy, but would add an element of 'anti-magic' to a game, as well as allowing for 'Song Combat'. Anyone have any comments? Leath. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #119 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.