From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Apr 25 03:55:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by deliverator.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA06902; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:45:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA14664 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:20:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:20:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199704250820.DAA14664@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #139 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, April 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 139 In this digest: Re: IN> Loki, Arghangel of Errata Re: IN> Week in Hell (fwd) Re: IN> New Archangels/Demon Princes Re: IN> Will Roll Clarification Needed Re: IN> Loki, Arghangel of Errata Re: IN> Loki, Arghangel of Errata Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #132 Re: IN> New Archangels/Demon Princes IN> For you Ofanim or Fire Servitors... Re: IN> QUESTION: Automatic success rolls Re: IN> Is Your Web Site A Secret? IN> QUESTIONS: Song Implications IN> Supplements... Re: IN> The War Revealed - Warrior Nun Re: IN> The Nature of Faith RE: IN> Tea and Sympathy Re: IN> Loki, Arghangel of Errata IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #136 Re: IN> For you Ofanim or Fire Servitors... Re: IN> Killing People, and Healing. IN> In Nomine mailing list IN> OWL is scum Re: IN> vessel types... IN> CANON: Damage IN> Faith Re: IN> vessel types... Re: IN> The Nature of Faith IN> Thanatos, Archangel of Death Re: IN> CANON: Damage IN> Ye Watchers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:02:34 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Loki, Arghangel of Errata so, how about Logh, with apologies to Herr Wagner for expropriating the more Teutonic name he used in the Ring cycle of operas?John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > > Loki (as in the deity of old) is going to be in > an upcoming supplement (probably Marches), so it's probably > best not to use this name. > > -- > ___________________________________________________ > / \ > |John Karakash - Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T) | > | (919)380-4629 | > | "A fundamental principle of economics is that the | > | more you tax something, the less you get of it. | > | In this country we tax success most of all." | > \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:19:01 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> Week in Hell (fwd) Subject: Re: IN> New Archangels/Demon Princes by gum, I do believe he's right!!! nice call Gregory---how says the list--guides by choir/band or by AA/DP? put me down in the Superior side of the question. tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:16:09 -0400 From: "C. J. Hunter" Subject: Re: IN> Will Roll Clarification Needed : On the other hand, he has a point -- this means that demons (certain : Bands in particular) will have to split their points more to be : effective than angels will... (Though you don't want to send that : Will down *too* low even as an Angel -- never know what demon's : going to be around to toast you with it...) : : This could be a somewhat good thing, lest you get Demons with : Will 12 (gak!) too routinely. This could be a bad thing, since : only Kyrios have a Will-based resonance; angels wouldn't have : to split themselves from being perception heavy. Don't forget the Songs! A lot of them require Will rolls to defend against them. A Perception-heavy angel may see it coming, but she can't get out of the way... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 16:28 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Loki, Arghangel of Errata >> Loki (as in the deity of old) is going to be in >>an upcoming supplement (probably Marches), so it's probably >>best not to use this name. > >Well, I don't really expect it to be used, it was just for the >amusement of you and others who have to deal with errata. Maybe he should be named "Erros" -- that way he could be invoked a lot by typos.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:05:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Loki, Arghangel of Errata At 10:34 AM -0400 4/24/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: > Loki (as in the deity of old) is going to be in >an upcoming supplement (probably Marches), so it's probably >best not to use this name. I'm sure we could find other trickster gods... Hang on... Hermes/Mercury is one for scam artists (Hermes in particular... Going around stealing Apollo's flocks and then saying, "But I am a 2-day old baby, what do I know about sheep-thieves?"). Coyote and Raven have some reputation for being tricksy, I believe? And then there's the Angels of Confusion, in the Dictionary of Angels... (And, flipping through on a totally divergant track, there's an Angel of Aquarius, and I now have *that* song murmuring in the back of my head.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:39:50 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #132 At 2:07 AM -0400 4/24/97, Calabim@aol.com wrote: ><< At 11:26 AM -0500 4/23/97, Shadowcat wrote: > >On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > >> Hey, is that the one with all the fighting angels and demons on the > >> cover? I think the local comic store has a copy he hasn't been able > >> to sell... > > > > That's the one. > > I'll try and pick up a copy next weekend. > >> > >Noooooo....please don't. Didn't you hear the beloved game designer whimper >mournfully and explain in so many words that he wished he never wrote it? So? You'd be able to tell what he *didn't* like, and thus glimpse the author's Destiny by seeing his flirtation with Fate. And if you're a completist... >I started this. I made the puppy dog eyes first. But he's a good game >designer. Have mercy on the poor fellow. > >Hmmm...I wonder if we could get Derek to write a new interview with God and >Lucifer, one he DOES like? The basic idea seemed like fun.... And then there's the one in XXXenophile... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:11:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New Archangels/Demon Princes At 2:22 PM +0100 4/24/97, David.Evans wrote: >Archangel Beth sayeth that others say that... etc, etc, ad nauseum:- > >> >> I'm sure SJG wouldn't sink so low. They'd only do books >> >>for Archangel/Demon Prince opposed pairings, not one book per >> >>Superior... (Or AA/DP "similar" pairings, or something.) > >Personally, I hope they don't even do *that*. I'm almost positive they won't. I'm mostly joking, since *I* am pretty well sick of seeing *D&D Munchkin's Guide To [X] or WW Clanbook [Y]... Seriously, take a look at the "coming attractions" stuff for In Nomine -- books expand on or create some 2 pairs of AA/DP, along with an adventure, a setting, and lots of other neat stuff. While I'm pretty sure that they *could* do a book on 2-6 Superiors, if they wanted, I doubt they would *want* to -- because people are sick of those. >[...] Personally, I think that there should be >no more than (plucking a ballplark figure off the top of his head...) 25 >or 30 AAs/DPs each _at_the_most_, IMHO (preferably the lower end of that >range). It's not that I'm against the politicing that will go on in the >IN universe, but, well, things could get somewhat OTT if too many >Powerful Superiors get thrown into the melting pot. Wimpier Superiors, and cool Word-bound, would probably make it into Pyramid and thence onto the Web, and in no way would count as "your game is not canon without these", I suspect. Good reasons to check out Pyramid in the stores. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:04:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> For you Ofanim or Fire Servitors... http://www.teleport.com/~seafire/lf.html has some very nice graphics. Totally coincidental, but hey... And the singer (Heather Alexander) is good, if not generally with an In Nomine feel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:45:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> QUESTION: Automatic success rolls At 8:34 AM -0400 4/24/97, Paul F. Strack wrote: >On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Walt Mazur wrote: >> Well, then why wouldn't any other action that gets to automatic level >> be equally immune from intervention? For example, Lockpicking/6 with a >> precision of 6? Yet it is subject to Intervention as are Resonances, >> so I wonder if "automatic" attunements should be, too. But Attunements >> are special, so I wonder what the official Word is. OTOH, automatic >> successes are pretty special, too. > >Hmm. Good point. Well, you can choose to only make them roll in >dramatic situations (when it is really important to get that lock open), >just to keep the PCs honest. IMHO, though, "interventions" can simply be >unusual fumbles or extraordinary successes. It *might* be direct divine >intervention, or it might not be. I prefer to keep just situatios >ambiguous - it's good for faith :) House Rule here, if I GM an IN game -- if it's an auto success, roll the check digit. If the CD is a 1 or a 6, roll the other two dice to see if we have an intervention. Otherwise, leave it as needless bookkeeping. (And if it's something *really* trivial, like that door, then ignore the intervention stuff too...) Truth be told, some Attunements *feel* better to me as auto-successes -- especially the "can tell with a touch" kind. More spooky, more...well... celestial. Rolling a CD for them, and intervention on the 1's and 6's, might not be a bad idea. Make the player roll the CD. If it comes up 1 or 6, the GM rolls the other two dice -- behind the GM screen. Who says Intervention can't be subtle? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:24:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Is Your Web Site A Secret? At 9:32 PM -0700 4/23/97, Hollis McCray wrote: >At 05:04 PM 4/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >>WHERE THE SPAM DID THIS COME FROM??? WHERE'S MY FLAMING >>SWORD!!!!@!@!owl@owlsnest.com wrote: >ME TOO! SEE MY OTHER POST ON THIS TOPIC TO SEE A SUITABLE PUNISHMENT FOR >THESE FEEBS!!!!!!!!!! >>> >>> Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet? [cuts whole spam again] [deletes caustic remark brought on by hatred of spam] It is considered appropriate, on the Net, to attempt to snip out such things as are not relevant to the discussion at hand -- while this is difficult to figure in an ongoing conversation (little ethereal gods know I'm bad at it, myself!), it's usually easy with things like complaining about Spam -- you cut everything, except, maybe, the "spammer@site.com wrote" and *possibly* the .sig of the spammer. Unless, of course, you are listing Headers for some reason. Yes, correcting people in public is also rude. I'm aware of that. However, clipping a good rule to live by in general. Trim whenever possible, if it does not make your comments totally obscure. Several lines of text, followed by a "me too," is tiresome to read. If nothing else, trim the .sig (especially long ones) unless you are responding to it. (Such as Bodhi's (and others?) amusing "Fiat Lux" followed by an equation.) All this is in news.announce.newusers, but not all sites make you read that first (or even tell you that it exists!). Now, so long as it doesn't happen again, the Servitors of Novalis will be happy with us on the List, while those of Malphas and Nybbas will gnash their teeth and grumble. And, unless a "do not accept for list unless a registered member" mechanic goes into place, we likely *will* see spam again. Use Header info to trace where it came from, and complain there. *There*, you can quote the whole infernal thing again, sometimes... [And be nice to me... My cat goes in for chemotherapy in 2 weeks. :-J My tolerances are low.] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com // emccoy@jade.mv.net GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:27:57 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: IN> QUESTIONS: Song Implications More questions, sorry. I'm happy to hear any input, but I'm most interested in Canon answers. I'm willing to break canon law if I think it'll work better, but I like to know where I'm breaking it. Thanks in advance! Song of Charm: "It's possible to be so damn charming to people they're stunned." To my surprise, this is listed in the index under "stunning." Is it actually to be taken literally and cause physical stunning if a characteristic is reduced enough? (If I get an official no, I'll submit an erratum to remove it from the index, along with Stunning needing to refer to p.84, Song of Thunder, and p.152, Shedim stunning like Kyrios.) Should the Song of Charm be taken as a purely mechanical characteristics lowering or should it have implicit effects on the character? For example, should effects like these be considered as resulting from a characteristic being lowered to the minimum 1: Strength--the character collapses in a heap Agility--the character cannot make a physical attack Intelligence--unable to make a mental attack or decision Precision--unable to walk and chew gum simultanueously Will--unable to act Perception--blind Song of Thunder: If the target fails his will roll and is stunned, can he still resist further attacks will Will rolls? Can he spend Essence to boost his Will rolls or for any other reason while still stunned? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:53:34 -0600 (CST) From: "The Incredibly Unremarkable Cliffy Q. Scrimshaw" Subject: IN> Supplements... How about if the Angelic and Demonic Players' Guides were half by choir/band and half by superior? This would give a convenient section for both the Kyrio/Shedim clarifications (which are legion...) and for more info on Superiors and a few new ones. This is the Picard solution... diplomacy, compromise, mediation, and then both sides are happy (they got what they wanted), unhappy (didn't get all they wanted), and united against the common enemy (the fool who mediated..) matt s. "Life is like a yo-yo: .-. it has its ups and downs, __ __| | plus a few loops now & then." \ V / (() --Matt, a.k.a. CliffyQS@Earthling.net |_| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:13:48 +1100 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> The War Revealed - Warrior Nun Shadowcat wrote: > > Peter, > Are you planning on converting Areala, Shotgun Mary, Serina, > Fathers Crow, and Fang, and Gypsy Rose??? > If so I would love to see them, though it may be a good idea to > wait for the expanded Soldier of Heaven/Hell rules. If you want help let > me know I have most of these series. > Peter is right though these are great comix for incorperating into > a IN campaighn. > Hmmm... I'll pass, thanks. Nice idea, lousy end result (why do all the nuns have to have 36-D breasts in those comics?). - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Thanksgiving's coming on the Fourth of July In the form of a girl with a needle in her eye Well she come from out west on a nickel-worth of gas Got her mind on her money and dope up her ass. BUTTHOLE SURFERS, "The Lord is a Monkey" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:11:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Cymrys@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> The Nature of Faith You raise an interesting point. God created angels, THEN God created man. One is tempted to wonder, given the nature of the way in which God deals with his creation,. whether He somehow needs the faith of mankind... In the Celtic faith, there was a belief that 'Faith Lends Substance' (there is an excellent practical illustration of this tenet in the Celtic-based fantasies about Paedur the Bard). The Celts believed that a god's power was directly based upon the number and fervency of their believers. Since angels k now God exists, there is a certain lack in their ability to provide God with power. One then becomes inclined to wonder what the deity responsible for Creation needs all this extra power for... hmm... I think there's a plot seed in there somewhere... Malakite of War Sava 'If a bare thousand of us dream... we can change the world.' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:12:13 -0600 From: Rob Wolff Subject: RE: IN> Tea and Sympathy - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC50D2.A88D0660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, all... Sorry to have misled you, but I'm not mad at all!!! See ... :) No... I merely was curious as to what the thread was about, saw my name, = and got a little confused. (not a new occurrence for me, I'm afraid). I shouldn't write responses when I'm distracted... it appears I come off = a might touchy! And YES, I would dearly LOVE to see information on your coffee shoppe! = Sounds nifty to me. Rob Wolff / Bodhi Rob@v-wave.com - -----Original Message----- From: tom timberlake [SMTP:tomtimb@ionet.net] Sent: Thursday, April 24, 1997 1:07 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Tea and Sympathy same here, Bodhi. it was just your turn--if it had been anyone else's=20 name in there, they would have gotten the same treatment. nothing=20 personal, just me letting my sarcastic sense of humor out to play. chin up, me bucko....tomtimb - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC50D2.A88D0660 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhAXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAyAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAATwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGluX25vbWluZS1sQGxp c3RzLmlvLmNvbQBTTVRQAGluX25vbWluZS1sQGxpc3RzLmlvLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01U UAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABkAAABpbl9ub21pbmUtbEBsaXN0cy5pby5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4P 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AAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwYIIXogRRvAFAAAgwYIIXogRRvAELAAGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAGgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQA AAA4LjAAAwAngAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAzgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAA AAAAHgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4ARIAIIAYAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAA/gk= - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC50D2.A88D0660-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:54:27 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> Loki, Arghangel of Errata On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:05:59 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 10:34 AM -0400 4/24/97, John Karakash - Lucent ASCC wrote: >> Loki (as in the deity of old) is going to be in >>an upcoming supplement (probably Marches), so it's probably >>best not to use this name. > >I'm sure we could find other trickster gods... Hang on... I "officially" rename him Yhprum. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:21:22 -0500 (CDT) From: rogue@ez-net.com (RogueLdr) Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #136 > >>GenCon is either the (help me out here) first or second week of August. You >>can find registration forms in Dragon magazine, or at T$R's Web site >>(although I haven't seen them on the Web, that's word of mouth). You can >>also just buy a pass the day of the Con, but it's a pain in the neck getting >>in on games if you haven't pre-registered. >> >>IT IS WELL WORTH IT. > >Is that an official DominicNet statement? Nope, empasis is purelu Rogue's. I'm sure Dominicnet would agree, though. >> >>Should be entitled "Some day they'll find it.... The Rainbow Connection." > >AAAAUUUGGGHHHH! > I couldn't resist. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:20:45 -0500 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> For you Ofanim or Fire Servitors... as a matter of fact, I have two of her tapes that I have been wearing out since Medieval Fair, 12th of April. IN-wise, "blood brother" off the "life's flame" tape sounds like a Cherub trying to locate his/her subject of attunement. good tunage, even if it's not deeply IN. tom "...say hello to the frog,..." Heather Alexander "the garden" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:18:09 -0400 From: "C. J. Hunter" Subject: Re: IN> Killing People, and Healing. : Well, I'm pretty new to the mailing list, but I've still got a couple : questions about two sugbects: Symphonic Disturbances from killing people, : and the Regeneration of Vessel Parts. : : First, the Healing... : : If I'm say, a Malakim of Creation, and due to my utter carelessness (say : I got drunk...can Celestials get drunk?), I blunder into the wrong part of : town, and a Calabim in a Pit Bull Vessel leaps out of nowhere and bites my : arm off. After dispatching the demon with my severed arm, Is there anything : I can do to fix the situation, assuming I don't want to check into a : Hospital? Will the Arm grow back? Does it require the Corporeal Song of : Healing? Will I have to summon my Superior to get it fixed? (Hey, Eli, give : me a hand?) Or am I stuck with a one-armed vessel until I can get a new one? : Since it's your vessel & it just a corporeal form, I suppose the arm would grow back...eventually. Maybe it'd look something like Sid6.7 in _Virtuosity_: first bone is restored, then muscle fiber, then skin... eeww. Stay out of public for a while. Summoning your superior could get it fixed real fast, but then you have to explain yourself. Corporeal song of healing would also speed things along. : : Second, Killing People. : : Let's say, I'm K'Blui, Demon of Random Violence (Serving Saminga?), and : I've decided that I want to go around messing people up, bet would rather : not have ripples running through the Symphony when I do... : : Now, I know that killing someone with my bare hands will probably cause : Disturbance, but what about these situtations? : : as I read it, there will be a disturbance in the symphony, because none of these things would have happened if K'Blui hadn't been there. The mere presence of a celestial causes slight distortions (nothing so big you'd notice, but it's there) in the symphony, but when they change things...[loud minor chord] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:43:30 +0000 From: "Remo Strada" Subject: IN> In Nomine mailing list Robert W. Messina 195 Rowland Ave. Clifton, NJ 07012 ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 97 00:45:15 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: IN> OWL is scum I'm sorry that Owl has spammed the list. This pondscum-sucking grade A a****** will certainly be removed and locked out of the list in the future. Owl has spammed other lists with the same damned message. Again, sorry. Peace, Moriah IN NOMINE List Manager ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:44:50 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> vessel types... On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:19:03 -0600 (CST) "The Incredibly Unremarkable Cliffy Q. Scrimshaw" wrote: > > I thought anyone could take animal vessels, within reason ("reason" being > defined by the GM). Having a vessel/1 sparrow or something to escape with > would be handy, and I thought it was mentioned somewhere. > > Am I wrong? > > matt s. > Well, as far a escape goes, why not take Flea/5 as a vessel? That would one tough Flea! And how the heck would you be able to find it? :) Perry M Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 97 00:45:08 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: IN> CANON: Damage >From: "John Karakash - Lucent ASCC" >Subject: Re: IN> Attack power, hitting humans, changing form > >On Apr 23, 10:52am, TSRInc@aol.com wrote: >> When you cause a human damage, but do not kill, does that cause >> a Symphonic disturbance, and to what extent. The italicized >> example in the Malakim description would indicate that the answer >> is a yes, but the Disturbance section of the book implies that >> it's the _death_ of a human or damage to an inanimate object. >> It's possible that I read the latter wrong ... I was up late last >> night. > > You read it right, but I think this might be an error. >Damage to beings _should_ make noise even if you don't kill >them. Damage to all corporeal vessels and things, even living ones, cause a +1 note of Disturbance for every 4 Hit Points destroyed when done by a Celestial or Ethereal being. Manufactured vessels for spirits (celestial or ethereal) don't cause Disturbance when destroyed or damaged. >> When a celestial harms one of the hosts of a Kyriotate or a >> Shedim, does that cause a disturbance? It's a human taking >> damage (or being killed), after all. > > Ooooh, that's a tricky one. It's been asked before >but the jury is still out on it. This is an easy one compared to the rest of the possession questions: Yes, it's a Disturbance. This means (are you reading, Beth?) that this is another way to muddy the question, "Can I tell if this guy is a celestial or not?" If you damage the creature significantly and there is no Disturbance, then this is definitely a manufactured vessel. If you cause significant damage and there is a Disturbance, then this is a normal corporeal creature... who may or may not be possessed! Peace, Moriah IN NOMINE Line Editor ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 97 01:16:36 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@CompuServe.COM> Subject: IN> Faith >J. Dring >Hmm. I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with that. If I recall my >comparative religion stuff (reaching way back to those undergrad years) >faith is precisely the "belief" that God exists. Yes, religious folks take >it as a fact that God exists, but they do so because they have faith that >he exists. Someone who has PROOF that God exists by definition, I think, >cannot have FAITH because they KNOW. I'm sorry but I find your definition unconvincing. There is no supporting argument you give for it except for 'that's how I define it.' You did not address the problem of people who *do* have 'proof' of God's existence and the nature of their faith. Again, Moses and the prophets encountered God, does this mean they no longer had 'faith' because they now have proof? Your definition of faith would lead to a Christian praying, "God, I am saved by faith in you, so don't reveal yourself to me and destroy my faith." :) Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:54:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Donald G Bixler Subject: Re: IN> vessel types... > Well, as far a escape goes, why not take Flea/5 as a vessel? That > would one tough Flea! And how the heck would you be able to find it? Unfortunately, only Jordi's Kyrio's can take insects... > :) I think arachnids are still available... ;'} > Perry M Lloyd Oops da "Helpful" Ogre mudgb4@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:01:23 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Nature of Faith Cymrys@aol.com wrote on Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:11:07 -0400 (EDT) > You raise an interesting point. God created angels, THEN God created man. One > is tempted to wonder, given the nature of the way in which God deals with his > creation,. whether He somehow needs the faith of mankind... > > In the Celtic faith, there was a belief that 'Faith Lends Substance' (there > is an excellent practical illustration of this tenet in the Celtic-based > fantasies about Paedur the Bard). The Celts believed that a god's power was > directly based upon the number and fervency of their believers. Since angels k > now God exists, there is a certain lack in their ability to provide God with > power. One then becomes inclined to wonder what the deity responsible for > Creation needs all this extra power for... hmm... I think there's a plot seed > in there somewhere... > > Malakite of War Sava > > 'If a bare thousand of us dream... we can change the world.' > > Oh, boy. I wonder if there are more people with faith that the Devil exists and than those who have faith that God exists. Lucifer, Yahweh, who has more believers??!?!??!!! It the brand new Game Show: Gather Followers!!! So, is there anyone out there who knows much about the development of Earth's faiths? Which religions have the most followers? Islam, Catholicism, Buddism... THE RACE IS ON!!! Hmmm... this would have nasty implications for the Christiams... Christmas is former pagan holiday, as is Easter, Halloween? Is there a historian in the house?! The war might be boiled down to literally what "Gods" have the most followers. And I don't just mean the ones who go to church on Sundays, hell, that can make for really lousy satanists. No, I mean followers who truely, blindly, dare I say stupidly, believe and follow the God. Pure Faith, willing to walk across Gaping Chasms, willing to charge into battle, knowing The Lord is "on their side"... Wow, what a cool game show this could make. So, what about this whole Buddism thing? Perry M Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:01:23 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Thanatos, Archangel of Death Thanatos, Archangel of Death "The world is one where everyone's time will come. Until then, use your time wisely." Thanatos does not seek the death of mortals. Rather, Thanatos seeks to ease their deaths, relieving pain and suffering. Death the comforter, Angels of Mercy, not of Justice. Thanatos also works to provide mortals with a "second chance", another crack at the Game of Life. Thanatos has the ability to grant the ability to die to the undead, it is possible the a few favored Servitors may possess this ability as well. Dissonance It is dissonant for servants of Thanatos to stand by as a mortal dies a painful death. To actually cause a death which is not part of the symphony is to invite Discord! Choir Attunements Seraphim Upon touching the dead, the angel will know the true cause of death, and with a successful perception roll learn a number of people associated with the death. Cherubim This choir is charged with the care those destined to die young, to encourage them to their destiny. With a successful Perception roll they can determine whether any action will lead ultimately to that person's destiny or fate. Ofanim Being speedy, the Ofanim are charged with bearing the messages, the last words, of the dead to any loved ones. Until a message is delivered, they can "see" a connexion, a fine glowing thread which will guide them to those to receive the message. Elohim Charged with counseling the dying, for however long the dying process is, from mere seconds to days, weeks, and months. They may relieve the pain of the suffering with a successful Resonance roll. Malakim The Malakim are charged with delivering the "final justice" to the wicked. Painless, of course. They do not kill, but are present at the hour of death to relieve the pain of death. They are excellent perceivers of honor, with a +2 to their Resonance Check Digit. Kyriotates They may create their own vessels, but only in the image of the formerly living. One might meet Mozart in this manner, but the angel must have touched the person's body. Alive or dead. Mercurians The mercurians are charged with counseling loved ones of the dead. They have a +1 on all Check Digits in pursuit of this. Servitor Attunements * Forstall Final Judgement For 3 essence and a Perception roll, the angel grants the mortal a second lease on life which will forstall death for 1d6 months. * Little Good Death (required of all) This kills the target painlessly, not necessarily quickly. The target gently expires. If this attunement is used during the hour of death, then there is no disturbance to the symphony, else the disturbance is normal. This attunement will only work on those willing to die, except in the case of the Malakim. This death is a merciful death in the place of merciless one. Malakim may use this against any they choose, though look to Dissonace (above). Malakim may use this attunement against Demons with a contest of Wills. (higher successful check digit I assume). Successful or not the Demon will be alerted to the attack, either because they are in Trauma ("I don't know what the hell hit me!") or because they felt the attack. Failing an attack will cause the Demon's attention to be focused on YOU. :) Distinctions Vassal of Morbid Clairvoyance The angel knows, upon touching the target, the eventually cause of death of the target (cause, not time), barring further Celestial Intervention. Friend of the Mausoleum The angel may move between any place of the dead they have visited instantly, regardless of distance on any of the three realms. Master of Vengence While persuing the death of being responsible for an unjust killing, the angel cannot be harmed by that being. Basic Rites * ease the death of a mortal * disrupt the plans of a Servitor of Saminga * prevent the unecessary death of a mortal * convince someone not to cut a live short, including their own. Chance of Invocation: 2 Invocation Modifiers +1 Painkiller +2 Reading about death for two hours +3 A suicide note which was never used +4 An item once treasured by someone now dead +5 Witness Euthanasia +6 Ease the death of 50 people Relations Allied: No one Associated: Yves, Blandine, Eli Hostile: No one - -------------------------- Well, it's worked so far in my campaign. Any comments? :) Perry M Lloyd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 06:51:26 GMT From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur) Subject: Re: IN> CANON: Damage On 25 Apr 97 00:45:08 EDT, Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> wrote: > This means (are you reading, Beth?) that this is another way to muddy the >question, "Can I tell if this guy is a celestial or not?" If you damage the >creature significantly and there is no Disturbance, then this is definitely >a manufactured vessel. If you cause significant damage and there is a >Disturbance, then this is a normal corporeal creature... who may or may not >be possessed! Urk! Yeah, Kyrios and Shedim needed an advantage to balance all those disadvantages. >Peace, You've *got* to be kidding! ;) Seriously: the ruling makes sense, but I hope a Song of Exorcism is under development! ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 97 03:21:30 EDT From: Moriah - Steve Jackson Games <73407.515@compuserve.com> Subject: IN> Ye Watchers We've been singing this hymn Eastertide... guess what comes to my mind: YE WATCHERS AND YE HOLY ONES Ye watchers and ye holy ones, Bright seraphs, cherubim, and thrones, Raise the glad strain, Alleluia! Cry out, dominions, princedoms, pow'rs, Archangel, virtues, angel choirs, REFRAIN: Alleluai, Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia! O higher than the cherubim, More glorious than the seraphim, Lead their praises, Alleluia! Thou bearer of th'eternal Word, Most gracious, magnify the Lord, (REFRAIN) Respond, ye souls in endless rest, Ye patriarchs and prophets blest, Alleluia, alleluia! Ye holy twelve, ye martyrs strong, All saints triumphant, raise the song: (REFRAIN) O friends, in gladness let us sing, All heaven's anthems echoing, Alleluia, alleluia! To God the Father, god the Son, And God the Spirit, Three in One, (REFRAIN) -John Athelston Riley (1858-1947), alt. - ----- Peace, Moriah ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #139 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1996 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.